S02.E16: Vegas, Baby

[DebbieM4]

On 3/1/2018 at 8:56 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

I thought he had done more than that.  They act like he's a star, and he definitely spends like one.  I guess one sitcom starring role could be behind it all, though.   But I don't think being cut from one film would affect his future cast-ability.  He wasn't cut for being a pill.  

I had assumed the same.  It didn't seem likely that he wouldn't have had some prior experience and credits before being cast in the leading role on a sitcom.  In the first episode, IIRC, it seemed we were led to believe that he was a very big star with a huge, successful career.   Some inconsistencies followed later, but it's hard to know with this show when we should take things as presented and when we should suspend disbelief for the sake of enjoyment.

8 hours ago, candall said:

I was pissed off during the entire anniversary segment.  Rebecca's one simple request was to snuggle in bed with her husband while they watched "The Commish."  I'm sure that would have been a rare special treat for her, and Jack COULD have made that happen, but no.

Also, I think the triplets are too old to overlook the irony of running mom ragged, up and down the stairs to fetch the decorations, leaving the kitchen a disaster area for "someone" to clean up, etc.   That seems more like the empirical thinking of younger children.

Yeah, I didn't find the whole anniversary thing to be endearing or adorable.  Something about all of it - including what you said about the ages of the children - didn't ring true for me.

[qtpye]

Quote

Yeah, I didn't find the whole anniversary thing to be endearing or adorable.  Something about all of it - including what you said about the ages of the children - didn't ring true for me.

What was off about it was that it was exactly what Rebecca did not want and we are supposed to realize at the end that "she was wrong".  Everything should always be celebrated grandly, despite your feelings.  She spent her anniversary cleaning up after her kids, eating dinner at midnight, and missing the Commish to go out and "look at a meteor shower".  This is Hollywood adorable and real life frustrating.

I have written about how Kate insecurities have lead her not to have friendships with any type of woman who she deems intimidating.  She might not have had these issues, if she had any respect for Rebecca.  In her family, Rebecca is one of the children who Jack has to guide.  Remember Rebecca did not want to have kids and dreamed of having a singing career.  So, she gets to be a stay at home mom for three very different kids, with very different needs, and watch as Jack sweeps in to be "the hero" again and again, mostly by undermining her in some manner.
 

Quote

 

I would have found it odd if my 10 year old twins asked me to dress like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman

Quote

Yeah, I totally would have been having a talk with Kate the next day.

 

I'm guessing this was a humorous throw away line, but it illustrates that little Kate is really still only thinking about Jack.  Daddy would love it if Mommy looked pretty like Julia Roberts, without really thinking "Mommy, would never wear something like that."  Though in her defense, she probably had no idea that Julia was playing a prostitute or what the heck a prostitute even was.

[possibilities]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

However, throughout the series, it has never been about what Rebecca wants, because Jack always knows better.  It is almost a Victorian way of looking at wives, that they are children that must be guided by their smarter wiser husbands.

They do the same thing with Kate and Toby.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, qtpye said:

What was off about it was that it was exactly what Rebecca did not want and we are supposed to realize at the end that "she was wrong".  Everything should always be celebrated grandly, despite your feelings.  She spent her anniversary cleaning up after her kids, eating dinner at midnight, and missing the Commish to go out and "look at a meteor shower".  This is Hollywood adorable and real life frustrating.

I have written about how Kate insecurities have lead her not to have friendships with any type of woman who she deems intimidating.  She might not have had these issues, if she had any respect for Rebecca.  In her family, Rebecca is one of the children who Jack has to guide.  Remember Rebecca did not want to have kids and dreamed of having a singing career.  So, she gets to be a stay at home mom for three very different kids, with very different needs, and watch as Jack sweeps in to be "the hero" again and again, mostly by undermining her in some manner.

Funny, I never got the impression I was supposed to realize she was "wrong" - on the other hand, I was so annoyed with her having to do all the work for "her" celebration that maybe I resisted it. I initially took it as her acceptance and rolling with it. But your point about everything else she didn't want to do that Jack ultimately talked her into, is a good one.

[kili]

Quote

 

Absolutely. Kevin Pearson -- aka, Rehab Manny who ran over his daughter with his car -- worried that he'd been Kevin Spacey-ed out of the film. 

ETA: He may even have feared that he was to blame for his scene partner's being cut: collateral damage to his own excision.

 

That's the vibe I got as well. BTW Ron is right. The romance scenes looked like they were from a totally different film. Maybe Ron can make two different films out of the pieces. I'm a bit surprised he can make one movie out of half the movie without some re-shoots. I guess he filmed a lot of extra stuff. 

I was also a little surprised that nobody seemed worried that Kevin had gone off on his own. Did they forget that hiding alone in a hotel room is what he did when he spiralled into substance abuse? I'm even surprised that Kate didn't think of something to do somewhere else other than Sin City if Kevin was coming. There are lots of things you can do for a bachelor party that don't involve drinking.

I do get why Kevin didn't have the mini-bar booze removed. You can't always remove temptation and its important that you learn to live in the world with the temptations.

I kind of felt sorry for the Magic Mike trapeze dude. I'm sure he found out that the woman he danced with ended up in a huge fight with her husband right in the front row. The dancers probably assumed it was because her husband was jealous. That would be the obvious assumption. When, really it was about anything but that. 

Randall was way out of line. I wish he hadn't been right because he's never going to correct his ways at this rate. I bet Deja's Mom ends up being the super at their tenement. That will show that if she could just catch a real break, she could turn things around. She won't have to fix anything because Randall does it all (with an occasional assist from re-hab Manny). She can just collect complaints and open the odd locked door. 

Love Madison. Her and Kate should start some kind of event planning company together. Kate showed she has skills for that and is super organized. Madison showed she is a researcher who can ferret out great solutions (e.g. the bridal salon) and is clearly super-organized as well (the binder of things they were going to do). 

[debraran]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Funny, I never got the impression I was supposed to realize she was "wrong" - on the other hand, I was so annoyed with her having to do all the work for "her" celebration that maybe I resisted it. I initially took it as her acceptance and rolling with it. But your point about everything else she didn't want to do that Jack ultimately talked her into, is a good one.

That is why I hope the writers have us see her finding her own voice and opinions after Jack's death,  not clouded by another, but of course they can't make it seem like Jack in any way, shape or form, was disrespectful, overbearing or sexist.  ; )

I wondered if the business took off, it she would have been just on the fringes or really a part of it. I think she has a lot to offer.

[bettername2come]

I liked this one a lot. Madison calling Toby "Toblerone" and "Toby Bryant" which he then admitted he liked was cute. The Kate annoyance was unfair, but very much in character. Same for Kevin pushing himself too hard coming out of rehab. I think there was kind of a meta comment in the "cutting the romance to focus on the father/son relationship" what with Sophie being off the show now.   The Randall/Kevin/Toby "Are you going to be good to our sister?" moment was cute. I like when I see the Big Three protective of one another. I also love how Toby just wants brothers and loves the Pearsons. I thought it was cute to see them taking on Jack's grand gestures. I loved that Randall just made sure of the romantic view of the meteor shower and let nature take over. Despite missing the Commish, Rebecca did get to spend time cuddling with Jack. 

Didn't Toby have a real friend last year that he invited over to watch football? Was he at the party?

Edited March 3, 2018 by bettername2come

[chocolatine]

31 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Didn't Toby have a real friend last year that he invited over to watch football? Was he at the party?

Yes, he did, and no, he wasn't.

[GSMHvisitor]

6 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Yes, he did, and no, he wasn't.

Oh but he was. His name was Shooter and he was the younger one of the 2 black guys. It was easy to miss, because literally all those guys were bold, but he was definitely there. I even saw a tweet from the actor pop up on my twitter when the episode aired.

[3 is enough]

Just goes to show all families are different.  I did know the date of my parents' anniversary as a kid.  They never made a huge deal about it, although we did throw them a big party for their 25th. I gave them cards when I was older, and for their 10th, when I was 9, my grandpa gave me some money and told me to get a gift with it. I know I bought something but can't remember what it was.

   I do remember when I was in my teens one year my father chided me for not getting my mother something for her anniversary.  Typically, he did not.  I told him it wasn't MY anniversary, and he should be the one to get her something. 

Anyhow, I digress, but Kevin knowing the date was not odd at all to me.  And as Jack Pearson's son, the fact he wanted to do something actually made sense.

[jacksgirl]

Late to the party, always read all comments. My take-away, family relationships in real life and on this show we love are complex and tied back to our childhood. It's wonderful that we loyal viewers don't need car chases or mayhem to love or love-hate characters on a show.

[mochamajesty]

On 3/2/2018 at 11:59 AM, topanga said:

Great post.  That does explain why Kate felt intimidated by Beth, but when she told Beth that, I must admit that the words rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it’s because many posters have called Beth abrasive, rude, bossy, angry, and the like, which I never see at all. I find Beth to be gentle and kind, especially to her daughters, Deja, William, Rebecca and Miguel, and usually Randall. She and Randall communicate with that ‘married people short hand’ that allows her to blurt out things she might not say to others, such as asking Randall how long his drug-addicted dad would be living with them.  I’m not sure why she dislikes Kevin so much, but maybe there’s history there. And she did let him live in their inexplicably cramped house for several months. 

,I never saw Beth that way either.  I chalk it up to buying into the stereotype of The Angry Black Woman. 

[Guest]

I think the writing for Beth has softened, which I'm very glad to see.  She was more frequently written angry last season.  Her rebukes to William, Rebecca and Kevin all put me off.  I don't care to rehash if they were rude or not, it's going to be a matter of opinion, but enough of us felt it that I think it's clearly not an isolated response.  And likely not racism or stereotyping.  

[maddie965]

I adored this episode. But then again, I adore this show, flaws and all. It makes me feel home. I know those people. I understand them. I cherish them. I don't need all the situations to be realistic or completely thought out. I just need them to resonate emotionally with me. And boy, do they resonate!!! I end up every episode filling fulfilled, happy and infuriatingly in love with them all.

I adore everything about Jack and Rebecca. Their love is everything to me. And no, they are not the perfect couple. But they are determined to love each other, and their kids, the best way they can. Jack and Bec on the roof filled my heart with happiness. As did young Kevin. One more reason to adore Kevin forever.

I love Deja. I really do. For me, she brings something special and different into this show. Someone who is really an outsider, and someone who could really benefit from all that Pearson's family love. I want that for her so much! As a RL person, I understand that everything should be tried to keep her with her mother. But as a viewer, I want her to stay with Randall and Beth. She would be such a great addiction to that family. And then, maybe, Randall would find some closure and move on with his life.

And Kate. I will never, for the life of me, understand all the hate directed towards her. She reminds me so much of so many women I met in my life. Hell, she reminds me so much of myself in different periods of my life. Insecure, with social difficulties, sheltered, intimidated by other women, yes. But still adorable, cute, funny, loving, supportive amazing person! She looked so beautiful with that green dress! And she looked so happy with Tobby and the dog! I was so happy for her! And so proud of her for talking to Beth, even after she ruined her bacherolette party! Oh, Kate, how much I adore you... I guess some people just don't like the character, and that's alright, of course. But excuse me, I have to go there again: I do see prejudice taking a part in it. Not pointing fingers, but I'll say that prejudice against fat people goes deep, and generally goes unnoticed. Most people cover it by saying they are worried about the fat person's health. Bullshit. They're not. They couldn't care less. They just think being fat is wrong and bad for you, period. Anyway, I find it completely offensive when people say things like "Kate is not beautiful because she's getting fat." Well, she is very beautiful indeed. I don't know if the actress is getting fatter of not, and I don't care. It doesn't have anything to do with Kate being beautiful. Unless you think fat people can't be beautiful. And if you do, well, I have nothing else to say.

Edited March 4, 2018 by maddie965

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 2/28/2018 at 4:37 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

Last nights episode was just another factor in that, Rebecca got Jack simple gifts or things she heard him mention like the hammer and he gets her a piano!!!

We've seen that Jack keeps track of the finances. He would know if she spent a lot of money, but she wouldn't know that he had.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 3/2/2018 at 2:15 PM, candall said:

Also, I think the triplets are too old to overlook the irony of running mom ragged, up and down the stairs to fetch the decorations,

Rebecca doesn't know what her own good china looks like so has to take 7 trips to the basement? Then take Randall with you after trip #2.

[debraran]

4 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

We've seen that Jack keeps track of the finances. He would know if she spent a lot of money, but she wouldn't know that he had.

What did Rebecca do other than cook and clean? My Mom stayed home but she did all the bills, knew every dime that went anywhere. She left my dad a list once a week next to his cereal bowl of what she paid although he didn't want it. The only thing she didn't know was a life ins policy he took at work that helped pay his funeral expenses later.

Rebecca probably never used her china but 7 trips sounded exhausting and at ten, the kids could do it.  For a "no fuss" anniversary it seemed worse than Jack doing something. ; )

Poor Rebecca, she never really got what she wanted but after a while, what Jack wanted, what the kids wanted, just became what she wanted. I've been there and it seems nice but it isn't.

[JudyObscure]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:41 PM, wallofsound said:

I was rolling my eyes so hard at the beginning of the episode with the bowling alley/grand gesture montage.

 Making people stop and watch them kiss when all they wanted to do was bowl? I would throw myself into the pins if my husband set up anything that embarrassing.

I think Toby would have tons of male friends.  That big loud personality?  A million jokes about sex?  He would be the life of every guy's man cave.  I, myself, wanted to party with him when he came down the Vegas strip in that flowered jacket.

[ShadowFacts]

6 hours ago, maddie965 said:

Not pointing fingers, but I'll say that prejudice against fat people goes deep, and generally goes unnoticed. Most people cover it by saying they are worried about the fat person's health. Bullshit. They're not. They couldn't care less. They just think being fat is wrong and bad for you, period. Anyway, I find it completely offensive when people say things like "Kate is not beautiful because she's getting fat." Well, she is very beautiful indeed. I don't know if the actress is getting fatter of not, and I don't care. It doesn't have anything to do with Kate being beautiful. Unless you think fat people can't be beautiful. And if you do, well, I have nothing else to say.

I agree that fat people face deep prejudice, and of course they can be beautiful.  Haters will hate, but I also think people legitimately worry about health.  I do.  For the overweight people in my life, myself included.  I try to win my struggles with weight not because I think I'm going to end up winning a beauty contest, but because I want to stay as fit and healthy as I can.  I think Kate has times when she is caring and funny and empathic, and other times when she is hard to take.  Pretty much like most of the Pearson family.  They have sort of laid off Kate's weight recently, but I think the health aspect could naturally come up since we now know that Jack died at a young age from a "widowmaker" heart attack.  Kate and Kevin have a family history of a first degree relative dying from this without apparently having known he had a blockage. 

[debraran]

3 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I agree that fat people face deep prejudice, and of course they can be beautiful.  Haters will hate, but I also think people legitimately worry about health.  I do.  For the overweight people in my life, myself included.  I try to win my struggles with weight not because I think I'm going to end up winning a beauty contest, but because I want to stay as fit and healthy as I can.  I think Kate has times when she is caring and funny and empathic, and other times when she is hard to take.  Pretty much like most of the Pearson family.  They have sort of laid off Kate's weight recently, but I think the health aspect could naturally come up since we now know that Jack died at a young age from a "widowmaker" heart attack.  Kate and Kevin have a family history of a first degree relative dying from this without apparently having known he had a blockage. 

The hard part is that Kate really is a larger woman and unlike Toby, who has padding, can't lose it the same way.  I've heard people at work discuss that she seemed larger in the Vegas episode but then later smaller in the green dress....some think they will pad her to make her seem like she lost weight later, kind of odd the emphasis on just that aspect but the show also made her weight a big part of who she is. There is a prejudice to be sure, but what was Kate most of the show, a kid being teased by her friends, her dad and mom disagreeing on her diet, her grandmother talking about it, so many issues that just surrounding her weight when she wasn't even very much over her ideal weight probably. Later, weight was used to show job issues, dating issues, etc.  So yes, many have bias against heavier people but TIU also used Chrissy as a poster child for it. They didn't make her very dimensional.

[Kira53]

On 2/27/2018 at 11:02 PM, ByaNose said:

Okay, which writer on This Is Us has a thing for Deja? Can they please be fired?! Randall and Beth have two daughters at home already and are much more interesting. Please! Get rid of Deja & her mother. Ugh! 

I also appreciated that Jack was deJacked for the anniversary. I didn’t think he had it in him. LOL!!!

Overall, a nice episode. There wasn’t any heart stopping moments that I didn’t need to recover from. I need a rest every once in awhile. LOL!!!!

Totally disagree regarding Deja. I think her story is very interesting with many layers. As time goes on there are many different kinds of stories that can be told through Deja’s eyes.  Tess and her sister don’t have that many stories to tell in the present. They are nice sweet little girls in a protected environment in private school and they’re wealthy. Their unique stories will take place when they’re a little older.  As an African-American, I’m interested in some of the stories that will be told through Deja as she is in adolescence as well as issues about class and race in America 2018.   Of course, I don’t like her mother, but I’m sure there’s a story to tell back there too.  The series is already signed for third season and they do need unique and wider based stories to tell about characters that can be sharply drawn and often controversial. That’s where Toby’s brother and Jack’s brother come in too.

I’m sure it’s been said earlier, but for me it was eerie to see Jack and Rebecca on the same roof that the last time I saw it was the roof of escape from the fire.   I enjoyed the ironic sense that the writers have and how well scripted the episodes are.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Kira53
one word

[Guest]

7 hours ago, maddie965 said:

Not pointing fingers, but I'll say that prejudice against fat people goes deep, and generally goes unnoticed. Most people cover it by saying they are worried about the fat person's health. Bullshit. They're not. They couldn't care less. They just think being fat is wrong and bad for you, period. Anyway, I find it completely offensive when people say things like "Kate is not beautiful because she's getting fat."

I don't think you've seen anything said here like "Kate's not beautiful because she's getting fat."  

And I don't think you can know what's in everyone's heads when they say they care.  Yes, there is prejudice but there is also concern.  We've seen so many actors and comedians die young from obesity, if not people in our own lives.  To say no one cares and everyone is lying is a broad overgeneralization. 

Though I'm guessing this is just that hyperbole/OTT style of writing the show also loves, not meant to be especially realistic or accurate so much as charged with emotion and emphatic.  I could see Kate reciting those lines herself.  

[Empress1]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 Making people stop and watch them kiss when all they wanted to do was bowl? I would throw myself into the pins if my husband set up anything that embarrassing.

I think Toby would have tons of male friends.  That big loud personality?  A million jokes about sex?  He would be the life of every guy's man cave.  I, myself, wanted to party with him when he came down the Vegas strip in that flowered jacket.

I could never be married to Jack because public grand gestures are anathema to me. If the scoreboard lights up "Empress1 will you marry me?" I am saying no.

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Rebecca doesn't know what her own good china looks like so has to take 7 trips to the basement? Then take Randall with you after trip #2.

A friend of mine inherited multiple china sets from relatives, so I could see this happening. Though from what little we know of Rebecca's past, it does seem doubtful that that is her problem in this case. But it does sound like a snippet from someone's actual life to me.

1 hour ago, Kira53 said:

Totally disagree regarding Deja. I think her story is very interesting with many layers. As time goes on there are many different kinds of stories that can be told through Deja’s eyes.  Tess and her sister don’t have that many stories to tell in the present. They are nice sweet little girls in a protected environment in private school and they’re wealthy. Their unique stories will take place when they’re a little older.  As an African-American, I’m interested in some of the stories that will be told through Deja as she is in adolescence as well as issues about class and race in America 2018.   Of course I don’t like her mother, but I’m sure there’s a story to tell back there too.  The series is already signed for third season and they do need unique and wider based stories to tell about characters that can be shortly drawn and often controversial. That’s where Toby’s brother and Jack’s brother come in too.

I like Deja and her story too. If for nothing else, because the actress is so good. But also for the reasons you state - the disparity between her life and the privilege of the Pearsons is pretty interesting, along with the complexities of well meaning privileged people awkwardly navigating those differences. Though, IIRC, the girls don't go to a private school, just an excellent public one.

45 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I could never be married to Jack because public grand gestures are anathema to me. If the scoreboard lights up "Empress1 will you marry me?" I am saying no.

Me too, though those gestures on a very much smaller (and more private) scales are very nice. The piano, didn't bother me one bit. Expensive, yes (could have been second hand though, and not quite as pricey as it looked), but thoughtful and private.

I thought Rebecca's gifts were incredibly thoughtful, so I personally didn't see a lot of disparity in terms of romantic gestures with those gifts. So I didn't feel she was continually getting one-upped, but I can see where others (including Rebecca) would think so.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Empress1]

5 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

A friend of mine inherited multiple china sets from relatives, so I could see this happening. Though from what little we know of Rebecca's past, it does seem doubtful that that is her problem in this case. But it does sound like a snippet from someone's actual life to me.

I like Deja and her story too. If for nothing else, because the actress is so good. But also for the reasons you state - the disparity between her life and the privilege of the Pearsons is pretty interesting, along with the complexities of well meaning privileged people awkwardly navigating those differences. Though, IIRC, the girls don't go to a private school, just an excellent public one.

Me too, though those gestures on a very much smaller (and more private) scales are very nice. The piano, didn't bother me one bit. Expensive, yes (could have been second hand though, and not quite as pricey as it looked), but thoughtful and private.

I thought Rebecca's gifts were incredibly thoughtful, so I personally didn't see a lot of disparity in terms of romantic gestures with those gifts. So I didn't feel she was continually getting one-upped, but I can see where others (including Rebecca) would think so.

 

I agree. The piano was incredibly thoughtful, as was the personalized hammer. One was just more expensive than the other. It's the "public" part of "public grand gestures" that bothers me.

I have multiple china sets inherited from my grandmother - she LOVED china. My father and brother have some too. I know which the "good china" is, but others wouldn't. Not even necessarily the good china - if I told someone to get the tea set, they could mess that up too.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Empress1

[Driad]

4 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think the health aspect could naturally come up since we now know that Jack died at a young age from a "widowmaker" heart attack.  Kate and Kevin have a family history of a first degree relative dying from this without apparently having known he had a blockage. 

Good point.  Does the family even know that Jack had a serious underlying condition, so Kate and Kevin might be at risk?  Some conditions may not be noticed in a routine physical exam, but if they knew about Jack's condition, the doctors could do extra tests.

[laurakaye]

On 3/2/2018 at 3:13 PM, qtpye said:

However, throughout the series, it has never been about what Rebecca wants, because Jack always knows better.  It is almost a Victorian way of looking at wives, that they are children that must be guided by their smarter wiser husbands.

I found Jack's treatment of Rebecca during the gift-giving flashbacks pretty lousy and also eye-rolling.  Rebecca gives him a bound notebook.  He says, "Oh wow I love it but wait here's your gift!" and then makes the bowlers in Lane 20 halt their game for a public slow-dance.  Then there's the personalized hammer and again, "Oh, wow, that is soooooo thoughtful but here's your gift, babe!" and it's a piano in the living room.  To me he came across as just wanting to quickly open his gifts so he could one-up her with his gifts to her.  Kind of jackaassery behavior, IMO.

I laughed out loud when Kevin was doing sit-ups directly in front of the mini-bar and the bottles kept coming in and out of focus.  It was like, "Tempted!  Not tempted!  Tempted!"  Etc.  Subtle.

And I totally thought Magic Mike would kindly ask Randall to step aside and let the ladies enjoy the show, so that Randall could monologue to the young stripper about how he could never understand what it's like to be dragged to Vegas against your will when all you want to do is sit at home and stare at your phone in case your foster daughter calls.  Missed opportunity for speechifying, writers!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 hours ago, laurakaye said:

And I totally thought Magic Mike would kindly ask Randall to step aside and let the ladies enjoy the show, so that Randall could monologue to the young stripper about how he could never understand what it's like to be dragged to Vegas against your will when all you want to do is sit at home and stare at your phone in case your foster daughter calls.  Missed opportunity for speechifying, writers!

I thought he should have tried to convince the strippers to go back to college!

[methodwriter85]

33 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I thought he should have tried to convince the strippers to go back to college!

Honestly, if this were a sitcom or a soapy Lifetime drama, he would have been mistaken for one of the strippers and had his shirt ripped off. The show really doesn't seem to take advantage of Sterling's smoking hot body the way that Army Wives did.

[QQQQ]

I wasn't paying close attention to this episode so maybe I missed it, but did Kate (or the writers) address that Kate would have needed to purchase two airplane seats to accommodate her size? Or did they fly first class (where I hear the seats are larger)? I known she's flown before... just curious, I guess.

[methodwriter85]

15 minutes ago, QQQQ said:

I wasn't paying close attention to this episode so maybe I missed it, but did Kate (or the writers) address that Kate would have needed to purchase two airplane seats to accommodate her size? Or did they fly first class (where I hear the seats are larger)? I known she's flown before... just curious, I guess.

They did that in a previous episode in season 1, so I think doing it again probably would have been tedious.

[Kira53]

On 2/28/2018 at 9:09 AM, Jeddah said:

Especially since it was $90, which seems like Deja’s mother couldn’t have been more than one month’s payment behind.

Are Deja and her mom going to move to Randall and Beth’s apartment building?

That was pretty obviously a lie that Deja told them.  she was quick to put Randall off from paying the bill directly since they had already been put out of the apartment (I believe).  You don't get put out from not paying the heat bill.  She really needs to be away from that Mom.  

[possibilities]

I think quite a bit of time had gone by between the "gas bill" conversation and the Vegas trip. I think it's unclear what the whole story is at this point.

[Kira53]

14 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I don't think you've seen anything said here like "Kate's not beautiful because she's getting fat."  

And I don't think you can know what's in everyone's heads when they say they care.  Yes, there is prejudice but there is also concern.  We've seen so many actors and comedians die young from obesity, if not people in our own lives.  To say no one cares and everyone is lying is a broad overgeneralization. 

Though I'm guessing this is just that hyperbole/OTT style of writing the show also loves, not meant to be especially realistic or accurate so much as charged with emotion and emphatic.  I could see Kate reciting those lines herself.  

Who died young from obesity?  I don't recall.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kira53 said:

Who died young from obesity?  I don't recall.

https://www.dietsinreview.com/diet_column/04/5-overweight-celebrities-who-died-too-soon/

[Blakeston]

Kevin was a moron to assume that he must have been cut from the movie entirely. His costar got a note from Ron Howard when her role was cut - wouldn't he receive one as well?

I was pleasantly surprised to hear Toby give Kevin some good advice, when he told him to just call Ron already. But then it turned out his advice was to say "Your loss," as opposed to, "Hey, I heard so-and-so was cut. Am I still in the movie?" Damn it, Toby!

There have been comments about how Kevin should have called his sponsor, but does he have one? Does he go to meetings? Is he still in therapy? Or is he trying to beat alcoholism by just gritting his teeth, and putting himself in tempting scenarios - like going back to his room alone after getting upsetting news, and working out right in front of the minibar?

Edited March 5, 2018 by Blakeston

[QQQQ]

8 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

They did that in a previous episode in season 1, so I think doing it again probably would have been tedious.

Do you remember which episode, because I'd like to watch it again. I wouldn't have found it tedious, because it would be a very real concern for Kate. It has been for me. Especially when the embarrassment of not fitting is coupled with flying with friends and family. 

[Pallas]

5 hours ago, laurakaye said:

To me he came across as just wanting to quickly open his gifts so he could one-up her with his gifts to her.

I saw this less as one-upsmanship and more as Jack's being unable to contain his excitement at the prospect of pleasing Rebecca and winning her praise. His underlying need for her assurance that he was a worthy husband. With a depressed mother and alcoholic father, he probably had little practice in receiving a direct and meaningful expression of love, like Rebecca's gifts. He may not have known what to do with it, when he got it. Meanwhile, he likely had a lot of practice in striving to make an impression on each of his parents, in order to prove himself to them and receive some small acknowledgement that he was a good son.

His own form of anxious behavior. Each family celebration, each wedding anniversary, Jack went big to prove to himself that he wasn't small anymore. It was never enough. Alcoholics don't know what is enough or when is enough, and not only with booze. Not until what he facetiously called "the best ever" Super Bowl Sunday, when each kid went his or her way and a sober Jack found it in himself to accept that, because he had nothing left to prove. But even that night, after rescuing his family from the fire, he was overtaken by the need to do more.

[kili]

Quote

Do you remember which episode, because I'd like to watch it again. 

Season 1: Episode 8: Pilgrim Rick. As Kate boards the plane to go to Randall's for Thanksgiving, the woman sharing the row with her gives her a dirty look. Kate responds: “Don’t worry, I bought both of these seats.” 

Quote

Kevin was a moron to assume that he must have been cut from the movie entirely. Your costar got a note from Ron Howard when her role was cut - wouldn't he receive one as well?

Kevin probably thought he'd become so toxic (after all, he was "the re-hab Mannie who had gotten drunk and run over his own daughter"), that Ron had cut him out of the movie (like Spacey) and didn't think he deserved a note. The female actress was collateral, so she got a note. He believed he was the cause, so he got nothing. Kevin actually has pretty low self-esteem and doesn't think he deserves much. 

[Pallas]

26 minutes ago, kili said:

Kevin actually has pretty low self-esteem and doesn't think he deserves much. 

Just like Jack. As this season progresses, it's clear that Miguel's line to Kevin about how much Kevin resembles Jack has served many purposes. It gave us new perspectives on Miguel, Jack and Kevin, and may still give Kevin new insight about himself.  

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, kili said:

He believed he was the cause, so he got nothing.

In typical, Pearson "the world revolves around me" fashion.  

Ron was never shown being petty, vengeful or concerned with wildly inaccurate gossip, which of course the show wouldn't do.  So maybe that's why for me it made Kevin's crazy assumption all the crazier.   

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

I saw this less as one-upsmanship and more as Jack's being unable to contain his excitement at the prospect of pleasing Rebecca and winning her praise. His underlying need for her assurance that he was a worthy husband. With a depressed mother and alcoholic father, he probably had little practice in receiving a direct and meaningful expression of love, like Rebecca's gifts. He may not have known what to do with it, when he got it. Meanwhile, he likely had a lot of practice in striving to make an impression on each of his parents, in order to prove himself to them and receive some small acknowledgement that he was a good son.

His own form of anxious behavior. Each family celebration, each wedding anniversary, Jack went big to prove to himself that he wasn't small anymore. It was never enough. Alcoholics don't know what is enough or when is enough, and not only with booze. Not until what he facetiously called "the best ever" Super Bowl Sunday, when each kid went his or her way and a sober Jack found it in himself to accept that, because he had nothing left to prove. But even that night, after rescuing his family from the fire, he was overtaken by the need to do more.

Pallas, I really like these insights. It puts a different spin on Jack's grand gestures. Thanks.

[Pallas]

Quote

Ron was never shown being petty, vengeful or concerned with wildly inaccurate gossip, which of course the show wouldn't do.  So maybe that's why for me it made Kevin's crazy assumption all the crazier.

An assumption, for sure, but not unwarranted. Kevin did get arrested for reckless driving and DUI, with a blood alcohol level of who-knows-what in the middle of the day, and his ten-year-old niece in the car. He did get sentenced to rehab (not probation), based on evidence of addiction. We haven't heard about the retroactive social media coverage of his appearance at the high school award ceremony,  but it surely happened. Most of all, his co-star in half his scenes and one of his two storylines did get cut from the film, along with -- she was told -- several other cast members. 

Any actor on the rebound would have been worried. And since Kevin is just starting to learn how to bear his own emotions, he was likely to take it hard.

[Guest]

But wouldn't it make much more sense to act like a normal, professional adult and politely ask Ron if he's being cut?  Not launch into full defense mode assuming this ultra-powerful person did do the rude thing, and likely insulting him in the process?  

[Blakeston]

Also, in real life, Kevin and his management (which he would have in real life, even though he doesn't seem to here) would have been in touch with the movie studio ever since the arrest, figuring out a media strategy.

He wouldn't be sitting around waiting for the movie to come out, clueless as to how they were handling things, only getting information secondhand via chance encounters with people he bumps into.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

But wouldn't it make much more sense to act like a normal, professional adult and politely ask Ron if he's being cut?  Not launch into full defense mode assuming this ultra-powerful person did do the rude thing, and likely insulting him in the process?  

Eh, if everyone on a show only did things that made sense, it wouldn't be very interesting. The messy nature of human emotions, actions, and reactions is what makes drama fascinating, in my opinion.

Not to mention, Kevin was operating on Toby's advice - which I thought was pretty bad advice, even if it didn't end up biting Kevin in the butt.

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Eh, if everyone on a show only did things that made sense, it wouldn't be very interesting. The messy nature of human emotions, actions, and reactions is what makes drama fascinating, in my opinion.

Not to mention, Kevin was operating on Toby's advice - which I thought was pretty bad advice, even if it didn't end up biting Kevin in the butt.

Yeah, it's definitely not like people in real life only do what makes sense. I don't even know why I do half of the stupid things I do.  If I knew how my mind worked, I would probably be very afraid.

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

But wouldn't it make much more sense to act like a normal, professional adult and politely ask Ron if he's being cut?  Not launch into full defense mode assuming this ultra-powerful person did do the rude thing, and likely insulting him in the process?  

Yes, even leaving common sense out of it, Kevin had just recently made the big step of making amends to a bunch of people, which had to have been difficult and painful.  Then he made the conscious decision to stay with Rebecca and reconnect with her.  Then he resisted the alcohol in his room.  So then he would turn around and take Toby's advice and tell Ron Howard it's your loss, buddy?  He was not on that trajectory.  I know people mess up and take one step forward and two steps back, etc. but I don't think he would want to burn that particular bridge with a guy who took a chance on him after his previous big mess-ups quitting The Manny and running out on his play.  But we know it was all written for the emotional zing of Kevin expecting one thing and getting another, and Ron Howard suggesting he would be walking the red carpet soon.  A true reversal of fortune. 

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Eh, if everyone on a show only did things that made sense, it wouldn't be very interesting. The messy nature of human emotions, actions, and reactions is what makes drama fascinating, in my opinion.

Not to mention, Kevin was operating on Toby's advice - which I thought was pretty bad advice, even if it didn't end up biting Kevin in the butt.

True, writers have to walk a line of making characters feel 'true to life' but also larger than life, because real life isn't that interesting.  But when the characters repeatedly are saying and doing things that don't even feel very 'true' anymore, just outrageous for the sake of conflict, it feels cheap and manufactured. 

For me, they cross the line regularly here.  I just have stricter standards for realistic behaviors, I guess.  I didn't think Randall storming into Magic Mike was very realistic, either.  But it was a lot easier to squeeze drama out of those two odd reactions than to say write something both very realistic and attention-grabbing.  Few shows can do that well week after week.  Sometimes TIU does it well.  More often I think these writers go for the low hanging fruit of the WTF-who-are-these-people reactions.  

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

True, writers have to walk a line of making characters feel 'true to life' but also larger than life, because real life isn't that interesting.  But when the characters repeatedly are saying and doing things that don't even feel very 'true' anymore, just outrageous for the sake of conflict, it feels cheap and manufactured. 

For me, they cross the line regularly here.  I just have stricter standards for realistic behaviors, I guess.  I didn't think Randall storming into Magic Mike was very realistic, either.  But it was a lot easier to squeeze drama out of those two odd reactions than to say write something both very realistic and attention-grabbing.  Few shows can do that well week after week.  Sometimes TIU does it well.  More often I think these writers go for the low hanging fruit of the WTF-who-are-these-people reactions.  

Eh, my standards vary based on the show. This one hasn't been strongly realistic from the get-go, so I don't get too upset when it doesn't meet what I think is realistic. It rings true enough of the time for me. Besides, what I think is realistic, others don't, and vice versa.