S09.E06: Meeting Mariah's Girlfriend

[SunnyBeBe]

9 hours ago, Lizz said:

I have spent time in Utah with a family member who lived there.  She pointed out polygamist neighborhoods where the houses were built like several houses attached as one. I don’t know if they stayed under the radar, but it didn’t seem to be much of a secret. This was in the area where the Browns lived and not FLDS. 

I will never understand how 4 women can share a penis but not a kitchen. 

I may be the only one, but I thought Robyn was trying hard to compose her face at first when told that Meri and Janelle would be going to the March. For once, she wasn’t in on something.  

I thought Robyn seemed ecstatic that she wasn't invited and happy that Meri and Janelle were leaving town.  The attempt to hide this was replaced with encouragement. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I guess I don't get this issue with moving back home. Is Caleb really okay with it?   When I was a kid, we had several generations who lived together.  (Not in polygamy.) And it was a great situation. Very happy, supportive and fun.  My parents stayed with both sets of In-laws (one before, one after) during and after my birth. The Grandparents and great grandparents considered it a treat. We always had the philosophy that family is family and you all pull together, door always open kind of thing.  So, as long as they are good house guests, I think Maddie and Caleb staying with Janelle might be a positive thing.  Plus, I think it's to make it easier for filming and we know how TLC likes that baby birthing footage.  Maybe, more than weddings. 

[TurtlePower]

23 hours ago, Meghzie said:

In therapy, Meri expressed basically the same thing that April on Seeking Sister Wife did a couple of weeks ago. That is she didn’t stand up for herself, no one would. I think this is essentially the problem with so many of these plural families. They might all be “family” but when it boils down to it, none of these women are married to someone who has their back. 

Kody is sadly out of touch with the reality and struggles his daughter is going to face in regards to her sexuality.

The dinner after the march was weird. Meri and Janelle were the only ones eating, then Mariah and Aubrey were the only ones eating. I think TLC did a little staging and editing. The camera crew probably wanted to clock out for the night!

This is a reason it doesn't work well. Jealousy and pining for the attention of a man is commonplace in society, but made even worse when the women are all together. And they have reason to worry about being "replaced". The guise of religion is the only thing that keeps it from becoming and all-out jungle cat fight. 

[giaNtsandYankees]

Since Aspyn's fiance was mentioned, I thought that add some more information that I found on him...which would possibly add another branch or "tangle"  to the family wreath.

 

So we know that he is the son of the current AUB prophet Lynn Thompson (or maybe grandson), who is also the father of Rosemarie Williams of "My Five Wives." Mitch is also brother (half or whole, I don't know) to Vanessa Alldrege of "Seeking Sister Wife" (I still believe that family's real surname is Allred, and they just changed it for the show). Now if he was related to Isaiah or Marlene Thompson (of Centennial Park/"Polygamy USA" - their real surname being Barlow) then we'd have Mitch Thompson connected to almost every show based on polygamy, (With the exception of "Escaping Polygamy." I did say "almost.") Though I don't doubt that he may be at least distantly related. I believe Marlene and Isaiah left AUB to join Centennial Park based on the way they were dressed in earlier photos of them. They definitely did not look like they belonged to the FLDS (which is the group that Centennial Park broke away from) when they were just married and jetting started. That and Marlene is the first cousin to Christine Brown. Her husband Isaiah is the first cousin of Alina Darger, but he is also the first cousin to (get this) Joe Darger himself. (And a lot of us know that Marlene and Isaiah are first cousins.) Whoa! That's quite a few people from the AUB that they are kin to, which would leave me to believe that they were once AUB (even though Isaiah is a descendant of a Kingston). 

 

But back to Mitch. - or rather his father Lynn. So two of his wives are Allreds (or a descendant of an Allred) - Donna Beth Allred Jessop and Rhoda Mills Allred. Does that surname sound familiar?

Rhoda is Christine's half-aunt, as she is the half-sister of Christine's father. Donna Beth is the daughter of Joseph Smith Jessop (who I believe Karlie Williams, Brady's daughter, is also descended from) and Beth Allred. The latter is the sister of Rulon Allred, Christine's grandfather. Boy, does that family wreath spread over!

I'm not sure who Lynn's other wives are, but it looks like there might be a chance that Aspyn may be marrying a cousin. That may not be the case, but again...whoa!

Edited February 22, 2018 by giaNtsandYankees
Too many typos. Damn phone!

[Onceafan]

Here comes out my Clinical Social Worker side when I listened to Meri and Janelle and their fight. For me two key points were said by both, that I think give a lot of insight into the family dynamics.

First Meri stated that she felt like Janelle jumped in to answer because she did not trust what Meri was going to say.

The second point was when Janelle stated that she talked to the "others" that were there, and they confirmed her belief that the question wasn't directed at Meri, and it wasn't a big deal.

Let's go back to the start of their relationship. Janelle joins the family. There is insecurity and jealousy. Meri deals with this by clinging to Kody, being more affectionate with him. Going to extremes of quitting a job to go travel with him for his work. Meri has openly stated in an interview that she did not think Kody had real "love" feelings for Janelle. Meri felt in a position of power, because she believed she had Kody's support.

Janelle actually moved out at one point. Kody continued to live with Meri, and not follow Janelle. In a sense, Kody had chosen Meri's side. Meri continues then to display dominance over Janelle, and Janelle, just quietly does not stand up for herself.

They often talk about how Christine joining was the catalyst to help their relationship. That is only partially true. What it did was take it from a 1 on 1 competition, that Meri clearly felt she was winning, to now a third wife. I believe the real catalyst was they started having children.

Children are often used as the glue that holds relationships together for a time. It is common in marriages that struggle that they have a child which allows them to put their energy and attention into raising the child, and not into the problems of the marriage.

This is what happened with Janelle and Meri. They raised children, never really resolving their differences, and power struggle, so it just was always there brimming and stewing, and on occasion would run over.

After the catfishing scandal, the power dynamic changed. Kody, has pretty much given up on his relationship with Meri. He has no desire to try and fix it. Kody sees her as untrustworthy.

Meri, now has to come to the realization, that Janelle and Kody's relationship is now stronger then her's with Kody, which she resents. She feels now that she is in the position that Janelle was when she first entered the marriage, the less powerful connection and relationship with Kody.

So Meri is upset because the sister wives and Kody see her as untrustworthy. When Janelle answered and Meri felt that Janelle wasn't trusting her, she acted out, lashed out at Janelle, who is still her chosen family member to target. But now Janelle has more power. She stands up to Meri's attack. Says, well the others see it my way, because we know that Kody will more likely take Janelle's side, cause he is angry with Meri.

So this leaves Meri feeling like the outsider and that she is alone, and has to defend herself since no one else will.

[Sandy W]

19 minutes ago, giaNtsandYankees said:

Since Aspyn's fiance was mentioned, I thought that add some more information that I found on him...which would possibly adds another branch to the family wreath.

 

So we know that he is the son of the current AUB prophet Lynn Thompson, who is also the father of Rosemarie Williams of "My Five Wives." He is also brother (half or whole, I don't know) to Vanessa Alldrege of "Seeking Sister Wife" (I still believe that family's real surname is Allred, and they just changed it for the show). Now if they were related to Isaiah and Marlene Thompson (of Centennial Park/"Polygamy USA" - their real surname being Barlow) then we'd have Mitch Thompson connected to almost show based on polygamy, (With the exception of "Escaping Polygamy." I did say "almost.") Thought I don't doubt that he may be at least distantly related. I believe Marlene and Isaiah left AUB to join Centennial Park based on the way they were dressed in earlier photos of them. They definitely did not look like they belonged to the FLDS (which is the group that Centennial Park broke away from) when they were just married and jetting started. That and Marlene is the first cousin to Christine Brown. Her husband Isaiah is the first cousin of Alina Darger, but he is also the first cousin to (get this) Joe Darger himself. (And a lot of us know that Marlene and Isaiah are first cousins.) Whoa! That's quite a few people from the AUB that they are kin to, which would leave me to believe that they were once AUB (even though Isaiah is a descendant of a Kingston). 

 

But back to Mitch. - or rather his father Lynn. So two of his wives are Allreds (or a descendant of an Allred) - Donna Beth Allred Jessop and Rhoda Mills Allred. Does that surname sound familiar?

Rhoda is Christine's half-aunt, as she is the half-sister of Christine's father. Donna Beth is the daughter of Joseph Smith Jessop (who I believe Karlie Williams, Brady's daughter, is also descended from) and Beth Allred. The latter is the sister of Rulon Allred, Christine's grandfather. Boy, does that family wreath spread over!

I'm not sure who Lynn's other wives are, but it looks like there might be a chance that Aspyn may be marrying a cousin. That may not be the case, but again...whoa!

Whoa is right, such a tangled vine.  

Just to be clear, this would make Mitch, the full or half brother of Rosemary Williams, who has accused her father Lynn Thompson of molesting her when she was young?

[Tabbygirl521]

21 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Stay tuned for a two-hour, season-ending retrospective on Kody's hair...short, long, scrunched, frizzed, moussed, tousled, and spazzed...followed by an in-depth discussion/debate as each wife rhapsodizes on their preferred style - down?  Up?  Ponytail?  French braid?  During the last two minutes of the show, Paedon puts Kody in a headlock and shaves him bald.  Problem solved, no therapy needed.

I am dying laughing at this! Spazzed indeed! Thanks for an excellent laugh!

19 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Audrey acknowledged her “like” usage:

Ironically, I “liked” her tweet. Unironically too. 

[Kyanight]

17 minutes ago, Onceafan said:

So this leaves Meri feeling like the outsider and that she is alone, and has to defend herself since no one else will.

I find this idea fascinating.  Really.... in life who defends ANY of us?  Are we not responsible for taking care of ourselves once we reach adulthood?  There are times our spouses will see eye-to-eye with us and there are times they will not.  Is it our children's role to take sides - or ANY extended family member's duty?  We have a stance or a belief - we do some action - and it is our own accountability that will see us through.  Maybe I am missing something here.

[taragel]

On 2/19/2018 at 1:16 AM, Awfarmington said:

Maddie mentioned Caleb had the flu (or they thought he did?) when he was diagnosed with a PE. I could be way off here, and often am, but couldn’t the PE be a complication of the flu? If that’s true, then it’s not like he’s more of a risk than anyone else. I think it’s more a case of laziness and the cure for that is a J.O.B. 

I'm way late to this discussion but pulmonary embolism means blood clots have filled your lungs, usually having traveled from your legs or some other body part. (When I turned 21, I had a very severe double PE --after starting birth control pills; it's a side effect-- and 97% of my lungs were blocked, I was told.)  I thought I had the flu in the days before I was hospitalized--I had a runny and/or stuffed nose (likely allergies) and trouble breathing -- the breathing issues were because my lungs were blocked.

That being said, they installed a filter in my vein so more clots wouldn't travel and made me take a blood thinner for six months afterward. I was in the ICU for a week, and then in a regular room for a few days more. After I was released I went back to my senior year of college and I was fine. I never felt any different physically after the hospital stint. So it's not really something that is...ongoing, if that makes sense, that would really affect you being able to hold down a job. It is a stealthy illness (that bit about he could've went to sleep and died if ALL of his lungs filled up is true) because you don't usually know it's happening to you. For me, I had pretty intense pain in my leg where the clot must have been -- but I thought I had pulled a muscle. It eventually went away after a few months (I didn't see a doctor because I was away from home working) and I had one very brief incident where I got extremely short of breath one day, but it was passing so I didn't think much of it. It wasn't till 4 or 5 months later that I woke up one day, thinking I had a cold/flu and suddenly kept losing consciousness/couldn't breathe/lips were turning blue.

At any rate, I don't think they're telling the full story here about his "illness" causing them to move home. More like, they didn't have insurance and couldn't afford the medical bills an impromptu hopsitalization saddled them with. (But...they've both been featured on the show for years--presumably they get money for that, unless Kody holds purse strings and doesn't give them any of it.)

[JoannKB]

Can someone explain the linguistic backbends that the women were going through to try to reassure Kody that the Women's March was not a "political protest" but a "walk of support"? The amount of times they said "it's not a protest" was bizarre. Would Kody not let them go if it was a political protest? If so, is that because:

1. He is morally or religiously against political protest, or

2. Against this cause, protesting this current political climate in particular, or

3. Worried that they would get arrested, or were doing something illegal, or

4. Worried that TLC would not film two political protests in one season, and therefore not cover his polygamy law protest?

I couldn't quite figure out what was not being said. They kept repeating themselves and getting so specific about the language that it seemed like there was something unspoken.

[Kohola3]

Quote

Since Aspyn's fiance was mentioned, I thought that add some more information that I found on him...which would possibly adds another branch to the family wreath.

Lawdy, I had to sit down for a minute after reading all of that.  My head was spinning.

Supposedly Aspyn said in 2015 that she wouldn't be in polygamy but with the background of her husband, I foresee her being a first wife as well.  I hope I am wrong.

[Gothish520]

8 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I guess I don't get this issue with moving back home. Is Caleb really okay with it?   When I was a kid, we had several generations who lived together.  (Not in polygamy.) And it was a great situation. Very happy, supportive and fun.  My parents stayed with both sets of In-laws (one before, one after) during and after my birth. The Grandparents and great grandparents considered it a treat. We always had the philosophy that family is family and you all pull together, door always open kind of thing.  So, as long as they are good house guests, I think Maddie and Caleb staying with Janelle might be a positive thing.  Plus, I think it's to make it easier for filming and we know how TLC likes that baby birthing footage.  Maybe, more than weddings. 

People seem to be on one of two sides of this coin: One side feels like you (and I) do, that family is family, you do for each other, and if circumstances require it or it just makes sense as far as the situation goes, then various family members living together well into adulthood is fine. As long as everyone is happy, or can deal with it for awhile if it's a temporary situation, then what's the big deal? In my own family, my sister got divorced a couple of years ago and moved in with me and my husband. We are happy to have her, and glad that we were able to give her a home. My brother moved back home after his divorce several years ago. He moved out a few times to live with other girlfriends, and moved home each time the relationships ended. Now my nephew lives there too. My father likes having his son and grandson with him, especially after my Mom passed two years ago.

The other side of the coin often thinks that adults living with parents is something to be embarassed about. In this country, when you become an adult it is expected that you will go your own way, forge your own path, get a great-paying job, cars, your own place, etc. Especially if you are male. Caleb is admitting that he feels embarassed by this situation. The attitude is, he's a man and should be able to provide for his family. And I do get that, I really do. But if circumstances make a different arrangement necessary, IMO he should not feel embarassed or be made to feel bad about it. Crap happens. And it is not cheap to live on one's own. People get in debt up to their eyeballs trying to go it alone. And especially considering that they are both going to school - I believe it was Kody who said that this solution was the best way for them to stay in school. It's good that they feel that furthering their education is that important.

Should Caleb have gone to college earlier? Maybe, but life doesn't always work out that way. Good on him for deciding to choose a different path and work towards a better future for him and his family. Positive steps should be encouraged.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Gothish520
spelling

[Gothish520]

12 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Lawdy, I had to sit down for a minute after reading all of that.  My head was spinning.

Supposedly Aspyn said in 2015 that she wouldn't be in polygamy but with the background of her husband, I foresee her being a first wife as well.  I hope I am wrong.

Yeah, 2015 was a while ago. Plenty of time to change one's mind!

[ghoulina]

23 hours ago, Adeejay said:

Several posters mentioned that in Season One, the wives appeared to get along much better.  I believe that was all smoke and mirrors.  Years earlier, Janelle left the family and had to be coaxed back. Christine threw a fit and walked out of the taping when Kody announced he was the one who picked Robyn’s wedding dress.  We later learned that when Kody and Robyn were on their honeymoon, Janelle refused to take his calls.  It was clear that Janelle and Christine didn’t care for Robyn.  And while Christine has since come around, to this day, it appears Janelle barely acknowledges her existence.  The fact that Kody isn’t allowed to be affectionate with one wife while in the presence of the others tells me they are all jealous and insecure but would have us believe otherwise. 

Don't forget that Jenelle's and Christine's kids would share meals together in the bottom part of that house, but Meri and Mariah would sit upstairs and eat alone. I think in some ways, some of them were closer, but there were definitely fissures that went back long before TLC came around. 

[Absolom]

Ratings!  1.295 M viewers and a .36 rating.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

Ratings!  1.295 M viewers and a .36 rating.

So, it's not too bad.  It's a little behind The Kardashians, but, they are in struggling, right?  Here's something for comparison.

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-cable-ratings-jan-7-2018/

[Natalie68]

On 2/18/2018 at 6:37 PM, Cherrio said:

Hey !

No mush mouth, can't stop eating, slobby,no shower FT

Tacos all around. (Only 2 each please)

Oh come on now!  You KNOW a proper serving is 10/person!

Sunday was the last live ep I am going to see since I switched from cable to streaming but I WILL be here for the snark!  

On 2/18/2018 at 7:21 PM, tabloidlover said:

Way too much Meri in tonight’s episode. I can’t stand to look at her or hear her speak, nor do I give a flying fuck about her.  She is so self centered and I just can’t with her anymore. 

Yes she is.  Again I was distracted by the place her eyebrows should be.  I think I have it figured out.  She has shaved them off and is simply drawing them on.  In one  thick, magic marker swoop.  You know the show is lacking when eyebrows are such a distraction.  

[Natalie68]

On 2/18/2018 at 9:23 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I really couldn't handle Caleb's passive-aggressive bullshit.  Yes Caleb, it's pathetic that you're thirty years old and living off of your in-laws.  And it's pathetic that you wasted ten years you could have been getting your degree before Maddie came along.  It's also unfortunate that you both decided to have a baby you weren't ready for.   Clearly moving back home is Maddie's doing and he passively allows it - look how he allowed Kody to handle all of his move.  If it were up to Caleb, they would never have gotten there.  But Caleb, you're a grown man.  How pathetic to use a health scare to manipulate things, and how horrible to let Maddie think that Caleb's a ticking time bomb, about to drop dead at any minute.

PEs are serious, and they are life threatening.  But Caleb's was diagnosed and it's resolved.  There's no reason to believe it's going to happen again unless he has a clotting disorder.  If he was diagnosed with a clotting disorder he will be on an anticoagulant, and he will be monitored.  Hundreds of thousands of people have this problem and go on with their lives in a productive manner, without running back home to be cared for by parents.  Pregnant women get PEs and yet manage to have and care for their babies, as well as go back to work after maternity leave.

It still amuses me that so many always cited Maddie as their favorite and most likely to succeed in life.  She's married as a teenager, knocked up soon after, gone to three different colleges, and back living at home by the age of twenty.  My hope is for Aspyn, but we shall see.

And speaking of poor Aspyn, she apparently doesn't even register in Kody's mind.  Mariah was his second . . . . except that was Aspyn.  That girl is used by everyone, and it looks like she had to go haul Maddie's ass to Las Vegas, too.

Like Mr. Natalie.  He didn't have PE but he had a huge clot in his leg.  He ended up being diagnosed with Lupus AntiCoagulant Syndrome.  He doesn't have Lupus but I guess people with Lupus often get this.  It stinks but life goes on.  We didn't move in with his mother because of it.  

Mariah does seem happier than she ever has.  Coming to terms with her sexuality has done wonders for her.  Audrey seems nice.  

[giaNtsandYankees]

7 hours ago, Sandy W said:

Whoa is right, such a tangled vine.  

Just to be clear, this would make Mitch, the full or half brother of Rosemary Williams, who has accused her father Lynn Thompson of molesting her when she was young?

Correct - that is the same Rosemary Williams. I wonder if that was the reason why the Williams left the AUB. I don't doubt that they are progressive and believe differently than the members of AUB (the reason they gave for leaving). But based on what I had read, when the accusation came about, most didn't believe it. They couldn't believe that a prophet would commit such an act. Almost like myself when I used to be LDS, I couldn't believe that Joseph Smith would bang teenage girls and married women while passing it off as polygamy. Or that Brigham Young was racist and taught such racism. Boy did I feel naive and dumb when I discovered the truth.

Now I don't doubt that this had happened to Rosemary. I remember watching a few documentaries on polygamy. One of them (which title escapes me) covered the TLC group, the Kingstons and a little of the AUB. Women that had left polygamy talked about how their brothers would molest them, and when their father found out, they would admit to fondling their daughters to get the excitement that they needed to perform their husbandly duties to their wives. *cringe*

In "Lifting the Veil of Polygamy," Mary Mackert said that abuse happened to her, and her father told her that "he was preparing her for marriage." *cringes again*

Edited February 22, 2018 by giaNtsandYankees
Typos again. Damn cell phone!

[Kyanight]

15 minutes ago, giaNtsandYankees said:

Women that had left polygamy talked about how their brothers would molest them, and when their father found out, they would admit to fondling their daughters to get the excitement that they needed to perform their husbandly duties to their wives. *cringe*

This is actually more common than not with Amish families.

[Roslyn]

2 hours ago, JoannKB said:

Can someone explain the linguistic backbends that the women were going through to try to reassure Kody that the Women's March was not a "political protest" but a "walk of support"? The amount of times they said "it's not a protest" was bizarre. Would Kody not let them go if it was a political protest? If so, is that because:

1. He is morally or religiously against political protest, or

2. Against this cause, protesting this current political climate in particular, or

3. Worried that they would get arrested, or were doing something illegal, or

4. Worried that TLC would not film two political protests in one season, and therefore not cover his polygamy law protest?

I couldn't quite figure out what was not being said. They kept repeating themselves and getting so specific about the language that it seemed like there was something unspoken.

The problem with really discussing this is the fact that it needs an open discussion about politics. A big no no here and just about any public forum.  I think that is why the whole conversation was so confusing and round and round without getting to any real point.  In a nutshell...Meri and Janelle were trying to convince Kody that their reasons for attending the march had nothing to do with the politics that the march obviously represented.  Kody is on the conservative side of the fence, and Mariah (since going to uni) is on the liberal side of the fence.  Since Kody went on a tirade about losing "energy" for HIS chosen political rally (in Utah), it made things even more confusing.  It was stated upthread that several of us thought Kody's complaining about the D.C. March was more about him being upset that the cameras filming the events in Washington would take away air time from his rally in Utah...but since he really can't articulate his thoughts very well...he came off sounding like a moron.

Meri stated "politics are stupid".  Either she distances herself from any political conversation or she didn't want to take any kind of stance on the show in any way.  That conversation was pretty obvious no one wanted to come right out and state clear political thoughts and ideologies.  Either their choice, or TLC's choice.

So...you end up with a very disjointed conversation.  But to condense it...basically Meri's only reason in any way to go was to be there with Mariah.  She could care less what the gathering was about or the political motivations behind it.  She could also care less (in my opinion) about Janelle's attendance.  Janelle...she was more interested in supporting Mariah, but experiencing and maybe broadening her mind in her own way. She also saw it as something for her and Meri to do together...kind of to unite for the sake of Mariah etc...but I am pretty sure Meri didn't give a whip about Janelle's purposes or attendance.  I will also state in my opinion that I think the whole Mariah wanting Meri and Janelle to go with her was a storyline concocted up to put on camera and to have the next step in the Meri/Janelle working on their relationship saga.

In the conversation with Kody they were trying to tell him, over and over, that THEY wanted to go with Mariah, for Mariah.  While they kept saying the whole thing wasn't political (we know otherwise) is because they wanted to stress their reasons for going weren't political.  But...as we have seen over and over...Kody isn't easy to communicate with.  He had one conversation going, and they had a very different conversation going and by the end of the whole thing I don't think he knew one way or another what was really going on.  He only cared about his political march that was coming up in Utah and was afraid that the wives/Mariah would take "energy"...i.e. air time on the show...away from his cause. 

Also...just my personal opinion...but I think that when Kody went off on how "gays and women have their rights nationwide... >>I<< don't have my rights as a polygamist man in Utah"...I think that was some pretty small thinking.  First...he really doesn't have a bloody clue what rights gays and women have or don't have.  It's doubtful that he has put any thought or learning about any other person or group of people past his own tiny little Principle living bubble and when he dismissed it what he was actually dismissing was "there isn't anything to march about...why bother" because he is very very clueless about the rest of the world.  However it doesn't surprise me because it seems that in those small closed religious pockets they close themselves in and nothing else matters.

...I hope I didn't overstep the political bounds and ended up sounding just like the "linguistic backbends" that were confusing in the first place...

[Kohola3]

Quote

First...he really doesn't have a bloody clue what rights gays and women have or don't have.

Absolutely and he couldn't care less, either.  The world of All About Kody and his Church of the Almighty Dollar  just doesn't have room for caring about anybody but himself.  After all, he's their Lord High Prophet so only his wants and needs count.

Well said, Roslyn.

[Absolom]

52 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

He ended up being diagnosed with Lupus AntiCoagulant Syndrome.  He doesn't have Lupus but I guess people with Lupus often get this.  It stinks but life goes on.  We didn't move in with his mother because of it.  

Yeah I have the Lupus AntiCoagulant thing.  I take a baby aspirin and fish oil and trot on with life.  I have no idea if Caleb has any underlying disorder though.  Janelle said he was diagnosed with pneumonia a few days before the PE and seemed to imply that was a misdiagnosis.  

Edited February 22, 2018 by Absolom

[Meghzie]

I think another aspect of them wanting to separate themselves from the political side, is that they like free stuff and money. Coming down strongly on either side of it could jeopardize relationships with sponsors, and cost them potential speaking engagements, product placement revenue etc. 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Meghzie
Clarify wording

[Kyanight]

5 minutes ago, Meghzie said:

I think another aspect of them wanting to separate themselves from the political side, is that they like free stuff and money. Coming down strongly on either side of it could jeopardize relationships with sponsors, and cost them potential speaking engagements, product placement revenue etc. 

Ok.... I am going to tread CAREFULLY so that I don't offend anyone.   I believe that it's actually very PC of Kody to support the LGBT community if he wants to stay with TLC.  Derrick (on the Duggars) made a comment about Jazz and that was it for him.  He was immediately cut out of the show.  

[Meghzie]

11 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

Ok.... I am going to tread CAREFULLY so that I don't offend anyone.   I believe that it's actually very PC of Kody to support the LGBT community if he wants to stay with TLC.  Derrick (on the Duggars) made a comment about Jazz and that was it for him.  He was immediately cut out of the show.  

Kody supports Mariah. He showed no interest in supporting the LGBT community. Because according to him they don’t need support. 

But, I’m sure he is well aware of what lines he needs to toe to keep the money coming in. 

[AZChristian]

I read the "who's related to who" post @giaNtsandYankees so graciously put together . . . my head is spinning, too.

Given all of the TLC families who are part of the AUB, I'm thinking that the church's offering plates must be full.  These folks are making a whole lot more than they did before, and we KNOW (haha) that they're putting the first 10% in the offering.  The good thing for the Browns is that they have church in their home, so they get to keep the 10%.

Edited February 22, 2018 by AZChristian

[Sandy W]

2 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I read the "who's related to who" post @giaNtsandYankees so graciously put together . . . my head is spinning, too.

Given all of the TLC families who are part of the AUB, I'm thinking that the church's offering plates must be full.  These folks are making a whole lot more than they did before, and we KNOW (haha) that they're putting the first 10% in the offering.  The good thing for the Browns is that they have church in their home, so they get to keep the 10%.

Can't help but wonder if there would be possible tax incentives by declaring a portion of the home as a church.  Congregation of 25 or so souls.

[AZChristian]

13 minutes ago, Sandy W said:

Can't help but wonder if there would be possible tax incentives by declaring a portion of the home as a church.  Congregation of 25 or so souls.

Trust me . . . if there's a tax advantage that adds to the "bleeding the beast" philosophy, they're doing it.

[giaNtsandYankees]

7 hours ago, giaNtsandYankees said:

But back to Mitch. - or rather his father Lynn. So two of his wives are Allreds (or a descendant of an Allred) - Donna Beth Allred Jessop and Rhoda Mills Allred. Does that surname sound familiar?

Rhoda is Christine's half-aunt, as she is the half-sister of Christine's father. Donna Beth is the daughter of Joseph Smith Jessop (who I believe Karlie Williams, Brady's daughter, is also descended from) and Beth Allred. The la

tter is the sister of Rulon Allred, Christine's grandfather. Boy, does that family wreath spread over!

I'm not sure who Lynn's other wives are, but it looks like there might be a chance that Aspyn may be marrying a cousin. That may not be the case, but again...whoa!

Sorry guys, I made a slight mistake there. Even though this has nothing to do with the episode, much less Sister Wives, I thought that I'd correct it.

Joseph Smith Jessop is actually a ancestor of Karlie Williams' husband, Jake Jenson Jessop. But Karlie might be a descendant of Joseph Smith Jessop, as she herself is descended from a Jessop. If you are inferring from the last sentence that Karlie and Jake are cousins, you inferred correctly, but it doesn't stop there...they are actually triple cousins. Whoa! I'll give you guys a minute to see how that would be possible before I break down their family tree - or rather wreath:

 

So both Karlie and Jake are descendants of Joseph Lyman Jessop and Rachel Moore. They are also descendants of William Moore Allred. (So they might be related to Christine distantly, or closely.)

 

Allreds, Jessops (and Barlows)...Oh my!

 

Karlie (mother's side):

Paulie -> Marcie -> Mary Jessop -> Joseph Lyman Jessop

Jake (father's side):

Benjamin Jessop -> Marvin Jessop -> Joseph Lyman Jessop

 

But it doesn't stop there! Jake's mother is also a Jessop, but is distantly...

Jake (mother's side):

Christina Jenson -> J. LaMoine Jenson -> Letha Olson -> Louisa Francis Jessop -> Richard Jessop

Louisa Francis Jessop was the sister of Joseph Smith Jessop.

 

Sounds more like a gene petri dish rather than a gene pool.

You don't want me to get started on Winston Blackmore's family. There are quite a few knots in that family wreath...

[LilWharveyGal]

2 hours ago, Roslyn said:

...but since he really can't articulate his thoughts very well...he came off sounding like a moron.

Oh let's give credit where credit is due - the entire group is inarticulate.  :)  The event was described as a "march" and definitely not a "protest," and then the two terms would be used interchangeably.  It was for women's rights, or it was for LGBT rights, or both.  It wasn't political, but it was inherently political because it was taking place in D.C.  The story was never consistent.  Not to excuse Kody's POV, but if someone had been living under a rock in January, 2017, and had to explain the event based solely on the Brown's description I think they'd have a hard time.  

[neh]

15 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, it's not too bad.  It's a little behind The Kardashians, but, they are in struggling, right?  Here's something for comparison.

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-cable-ratings-jan-7-2018/

Am I interpreting the ratings correctly - SW was in the top five shows?  Is the show doing badly enough to be cancelled?

[DakotaJustice]

1 hour ago, neh said:

Am I interpreting the ratings correctly - SW was in the top five shows?  Is the show doing badly enough to be cancelled?

I think that InTouch or whatever gossip rag published that story, got it from Kendra. I think as long as the ratings consistently stay above 1 million and there's not a scandal involving underaged children the show will go on. 

[kicotan]

On 2/19/2018 at 8:44 AM, bichonblitz said:

Besides, just because you have a kid that is your preferred gender it doesn't mean they will have the same interests. Caleb's boy may turn out to be a computer nerd, or have interest in the arts  or be really bad at sports or maybe doesn't like to hunt. Having a boy doesn't mean he is going to follow in his footsteps. Nice if it happens but no guarantee that it will. I wish (some) men would get that through their stupid ego driven heads. 

Agreed!

Additionally, their "boy at birth" might decide to not even indentify as a boy, so there's that.

[Kohola3]

7 minutes ago, kicotan said:

Additionally, their "boy at birth" might decide to not even indentify as a boy, so there's that.

Are you trying to kill Kody?  That would make his head explode.

[VedaPierce]

On February 21, 2018 at 7:49 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I guess I don't get this issue with moving back home. Is Caleb really okay with it?   When I was a kid, we had several generations who lived together.  (Not in polygamy.) And it was a great situation. Very happy, supportive and fun.  My parents stayed with both sets of In-laws (one before, one after) during and after my birth. The Grandparents and great grandparents considered it a treat. We always had the philosophy that family is family and you all pull together, door always open kind of thing.  So, as long as they are good house guests, I think Maddie and Caleb staying with Janelle might be a positive thing.  Plus, I think it's to make it easier for filming and we know how TLC likes that baby birthing footage.  Maybe, more than weddings. 

If I had the room, like a seperate entrance/kitchen, I would love my daughter, husband and baby to move into my home! As long as they work and help contribute. I would love to be able to see my grandchild. Life is easier for everyone for different reasons that way. But I very much get along with my family, inlaws, etc. We all actually share 2 beach houses right next to each other every summer now for 10 years. 6 families! Tons of cousins all same age-ish. I feel very lucky that I get to see my family and WANT to as well. Life is short. :)

Edited February 22, 2018 by VedaPierce

[Absolom]

2 hours ago, neh said:

Am I interpreting the ratings correctly - SW was in the top five shows?  Is the show doing badly enough to be cancelled?

It looks like it was the 10th cable show of the evening.  They are usually in the top 20 cable shows.  A couple weeks ago they were 12th.  Though ranking among cable shows isn't always a good indicator of much.  How they rank on their network is more important.  They are definitely among the better performers at TLC. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

If they are among the better performers at TLC then why are they being canceled? I mean besides the fact that they suck.

[VedaPierce]

23 hours ago, Onceafan said:

 But now Janelle has more power. She stands up to Meri's attack. Says, well the others see it my way, because we know that Kody will more likely take Janelle's side, cause he is angry with Meri.

So this leaves Meri feeling like the outsider and that she is alone, and has to defend herself since no one else will.

Or maybe the others side with Janelle because Janelle was right. Maybe she's been right a lot but nobody wanted to stand up to meri because it was just easier than dealing with her tantrums. Now everyone is sick of it and it's easier to have the power of your convictions when you are a little older. I sense that everyone is over Meri, not just kody. Christine straight up told her her inn idea was stupid. That would have never happened on camera a few years ago. 

Great post btw. I love a psychoanalytical perspective! 

Edited February 22, 2018 by VedaPierce

[VedaPierce]

I find Mariah strangely immature. The hysterical, non-stop giggling was really weird. Get a grip, Mariah! You're not 11! And this has probably been said already, but I think Mariah and her crew ditched her mom on purpose at that march, which is so uncool if it's true.  

[VedaPierce]

22 hours ago, Kyanight said:

I find this idea fascinating.  Really.... in life who defends ANY of us?  Are we not responsible for taking care of ourselves once we reach adulthood?  There are times our spouses will see eye-to-eye with us and there are times they will not.  Is it our children's role to take sides - or ANY extended family member's duty?  We have a stance or a belief - we do some action - and it is our own accountability that will see us through.  Maybe I am missing something here.

This. All day long. 

[VedaPierce]

21 hours ago, JoannKB said:

Can someone explain the linguistic backbends that the women were going through to try to reassure Kody that the Women's March was not a "political protest" but a "walk of support"? The amount of times they said "it's not a protest" was bizarre. Would Kody not let them go if it was a political protest? If so, is that because:

1. He is morally or religiously against political protest, or

2. Against this cause, protesting this current political climate in particular, or

3. Worried that they would get arrested, or were doing something illegal, or

4. Worried that TLC would not film two political protests in one season, and therefore not cover his polygamy law protest?

I couldn't quite figure out what was not being said. They kept repeating themselves and getting so specific about the language that it seemed like there was something unspoken.

Well, I took it to mean that they didn't want to appear to be protesting because it would appear that they were protesting the election results. I'm assuming they didn't want to appear to be taking a political side. That they didn't want to alienate or offend half the country. 

[Gothish520]

24 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

Well, I took it to mean that they didn't want to appear to be protesting because it would appear that they were protesting the election results. I'm assuming they didn't want to appear to be taking a political side. That they didn't want to alienate or offend half the country. 

Exactly. They were completely avoiding the real reason for the march. That's why all the conversations about it were so convoluted. When Janelle and Meri were telling therapist Nancy about the march, as soon as Nancy realized they were talking about D.C. right after the inaguration, she said "Got it" with a knowing look on her face.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Gothish520

[Natalie68]

18 hours ago, Absolom said:

Yeah I have the Lupus AntiCoagulant thing.  I take a baby aspirin and fish oil and trot on with life.  I have no idea if Caleb has any underlying disorder though.  Janelle said he was diagnosed with pneumonia a few days before the PE and seemed to imply that was a misdiagnosis.  

WOW!  I haven't 'met' another person with it before.  Even his nurses had to put together a sheet for him about what to do not do because they never see it.  

I understand needing the help with a new baby etc but I am wondering if finances were so stressed why didn't they try to NOT have a baby at this time with school etc?  I do understand accidents but whatevs. 

[Absolom]

From the way they talked, I think the baby was an oops.  They said they were surprised.

I was diagnosed by a rheumatologist so not a very big deal to him.   Although I think I've only run into half a dozen or less people with it.

17 hours ago, Sandy W said:

Can't help but wonder if there would be possible tax incentives by declaring a portion of the home as a church.  Congregation of 25 or so souls.

It's very, very difficult to properly declare part of the home as a church.  There are more regulations about that than home businesses I've been told.  Plus in a lot of places there are zoning laws about it.  Where I live it's prohibited by zoning laws and even holding regular prayer groups can be a problem if the excessive parking causes complaints from the neighbors. 

[DakotaJustice]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

If they are among the better performers at TLC then why are they being canceled? I mean besides the fact that they suck.

All the places I've seen that say they're being cancelled are using that article from in touch as their reference point.  Unless it comes directly from a named source at TLC, Puddle Monkey Productions, or the Browns themselves, I won't give it any credence. 

[ghoulina]

20 hours ago, Meghzie said:

I think another aspect of them wanting to separate themselves from the political side, is that they like free stuff and money. Coming down strongly on either side of it could jeopardize relationships with sponsors, and cost them potential speaking engagements, product placement revenue etc. 

I definitely thought that was a bit part of it. They like to keep themselves neutral. They think it makes them more palatable. 

 

2 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

I find Mariah strangely immature. The hysterical, non-stop giggling was really weird. Get a grip, Mariah! You're not 11! And this has probably been said already, but I think Mariah and her crew ditched her mom on purpose at that march, which is so uncool if it's true.  

I think so too. I find that Mariah is always trying to stealthily "punish" her mom. I can't stand Meri, so I don't care. But it does speak to Mariah's character. 

[TurtlePower]

20 hours ago, Meghzie said:

I think another aspect of them wanting to separate themselves from the political side, is that they like free stuff and money. Coming down strongly on either side of it could jeopardize relationships with sponsors, and cost them potential speaking engagements, product placement revenue etc. 

They took a safe, logical route. I don't see why people are pressured to publicly take a "side" nowadays (that's how it seems to me). And the idea that half the population might be "offended" by someone being on one side or the other is another reason to lay low. Everyone's offended by something nowadays. It used to be one's political leanings were personal and no one's business.

They're doing the right thing by staying out of it (except Kody maybe, he tends to mouth off a bit).

[mrsh]

On 2/21/2018 at 12:55 PM, Gothish520 said:

People seem to be on one of two sides of this coin: One side feels like you (and I) do, that family is family, you do for each other, and if circumstances require it or it just makes sense as far as the situation goes, then various family members living together well into adulthood is fine. As long as everyone is happy, or can deal with it for awhile if it's a temporary situation, then what's the big deal? In my own family, my sister got divorced a couple of years ago and moved in with me and my husband. We are happy to have her, and glad that we were able to give her a home. My brother moved back home after his divorce several years ago. He moved out a few times to live with other girlfriends, and moved home each time the relationships ended. Now my nephew lives there too. My father likes having his son and grandson with him, especially after my Mom passed two years ago.

The other side of the coin often thinks that adults living with parents is something to be embarassed about. In this country, when you become an adult it is expected that you will go your own way, forge your own path, get a great-paying job, cars, your own place, etc. Especially if you are male. Caleb is admitting that he feels embarassed by this situation. The attitude is, he's a man and should be able to provide for his family. And I do get that, I really do. But if circumstances make a different arrangement necessary, IMO he should not feel embarassed or be made to feel bad about it. Crap happens. And it is not cheap to live on one's own. People get in debt up to their eyeballs trying to go it alone. And especially considering that they are both going to school - I believe it was Kody who said that this solution was the best way for them to stay in school. It's good that they feel that furthering their education is that important.

Should Caleb have gone to college earlier? Maybe, but life doesn't always work out that way. Good on him for deciding to choose a different path and work towards a better future for him and his family. Positive steps should be encouraged.

I have to agree with this. Wasnt Caleb helping out his brother's widow for awhile as well? Maybe he was in school and left because it got to be too much. I dobt follow these people too closely, and there is a lot to criticize them for, but I dont think this is one of those things. Not everyone has the chance to attend college right our of high school. My husband went started college last year, at 33 years old and with 4 kids and a wife at home. Sure he should have gone earlier, but life doesnt always go the way it should and due to a lot of reasons he couldn't. I thought it was sweet that Janelle was so concerned with Maddie and Caleb being comfortable in the house, usually she hardly shows any emotions. 

[the-grey-lady]

Oh Lord...

Listening to Kody blathering on about how gays/lesbians have equal rights but polygamists don't is truly painful. "If you march for gay rights, you take away from polygamists!" Um, how? In what way? Why on earth is Kody yelling about polygamy just because Mariah wants company at the women's march, which has something-less-than-nothing to do with polygamy? Seriously, Kody, this isn't about polygamy. It just isn't. Kudos to Janelle for pointing out that women in polygamous communities don't have equal rights, but nothing was getting through to Neanderthal Kody. You're right, douchebag: gays and lesbians are now totes fine in this country and have nothing to complain about. Only polygamists are oppressed.