S01.E15: Will You Take My Hand?

[Bort]

Quote

With Georgiou at the helm of the plan to end the Klingon war once and for all, the U.S.S. Discovery crew struggles to fathom and tolerate her hostile tactics. Memories of past hardships are rekindled within Burnham.

[starri]

I don't know if I'm surprised they went there or not.  I mean, I really don't think we need to see the original crew of the Enterprise.  I'm hoping that's not where we're going to be picking up when we come back next season.

I did truly LOVE Tilly giving the Emperor a half-hearted Imperial salute with Michael's quick "Don't do that."  This was just a great episode for Ensign Tilly all the way around.

No resets, Michael mutinying for what was right, and Phillipa running around in the Prime universe causing trouble.  We got some good stuff.

However, Phillipa picking up both a male and a female Orion sex worker bugs me.  DS9's mirror universe episodes leaned on the Evil Bisexual stereotype to an uncomfortable degree, and they should have been better than that.  I mean, for all we know, Prime Phillipa was bi as well, but it bugs.

[ottoDbusdriver]

That was ..... disappointing.  The whole Klingon war wrapped up way too conveniently and easily -- the Klingons were basically on Earth's front porch, and they decided to go home.  Seriously ?

So did Tyler lie about all the extinct volcanos ?  Was he in cahoots with MirrorGeorgiou to lie about the "extinct" volcanos ?

No one would ever follow L'Rell just because she "says" do what I say or I will blow up the planet.

MirrorGeorgiou really did not play act real Georgiou very well, and why did Burnham try to out her on the bridge, since she knew she was not the real one.

Where did MirrorGeorgiou get the hydro bomb (that's how I heard it, didn't have the closed captioning on to be sure) ?  I get that they probably have them in the MirrorUniverse, but I highly doubt MirrorGeorgiou knows how to build one.

Liked the call back to the TOS end theme after the appearance of the USS Enterprise.

Tilly ate Gormagander.  Yum !!

Tyler is off to rule the Klingon Empire with L'Rell -- and lots of sexy time with her (to get Burnham out of his brain).
 

Edited February 14, 2018 by ottoDbusdriver

[starri]

1 minute ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Where did MirrorGeorgiou get the hydro bomb (that's how I heard it, didn't have the closed captioning on to be sure) ?  I get that they probably have them in the MirrorUniverse, but I highly doubt MirrorGeorgiou knows how to build one.

They carry them on Discovery.  Tilly said something about that to Michael.

[marinw]

10 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

That was ..... disappointing.  The whole Klingon war wrapped up way too conveniently and easily -- the Klingons were basically on Earth's front porch, and they decided to go home.  Seriously ?

I thought the Klingon War was wrapped up far too neatly as well. All the houses are going to reunite because T’Rell says she has a bomb? I don’t think Klingons react that well to such ultimatums.

Did anyone else rolL their eyes at Michael’s speech at the end?

[ottoDbusdriver]

3 minutes ago, marinw said:

Did anyone else rolL their eyes at Michael’s speech at the end?

You weren't alone.  It was a bit much.

[starri]

3 minutes ago, marinw said:

Did anyone else rolL their eyes at Michael’s speech at the end?

Given that there was no mention of gazelles, it was nowhere near the worst speech that a character has given.

[shrewd.buddha]

17 minutes ago, marinw said:

All the houses are going to reunite because T’Rell says she has a bomb?

How does her threat even work? "I have this button that can blow up our home planet. But there is no way to demonstrate how it works  ... or prove that it will work. You just have to believe that the bomb exists and this button will trigger it.  Also, I can never sleep again  and must always guard against being separated from this device. "

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

 Did anyone else rolL their eyes at Michael’s speech at the end?

<raises hand> I wonder if they knew the show was being renewed when this episode was filmed? That seemed more to me like an end-of-series speech versus one just to end the season. Overkill.

Quote

Tyler is off to rule the Klingon Empire with V'Rell -- and lots of sexy time with her (to get Burnham out of his brain).

Ugh, that poor guy, unless he's going to let them turn him back into a Klingon.

I started off feeling iffy about this show because the early episodes were so dark and depressing but I ended up liking this first season a lot. Sad to see Ash go though, and sexy MF Lorca's probably gone for good too. It'll be interesting to see what Discovery's new captain is like.

[ottoDbusdriver]

13 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

It'll be interesting to see what Discovery's new captain is like.

Just because they are on their way to Vulcan to pick up their new captain doesn't necessarily the Discovery's new captain is from Vulcan.

[Frozendiva]

So the show pulled a semi Babylon 5 - built up a 'war' and ended it fairly quickly. L'Rell is not high enough on the Klingon food chain to have any real effect on the disparate and angry houses. All that ego and all that Klingon honour. Tyler and L'Rell ruling the Klingon Empire? Hmmmm, no.

Burnham's  speech was a bit much. I did also note the profanity in this episode!

I expected the Klingon planet Cronos (spelling?) to look a bit different. Not like the Dr. Who ep where Donna had the bug on her back - Turn Left? Dark and volcanic, yes. The strip club and Georgiu was a bit much and not hugely necessary.

Tilly had a good episode.

Interesting distress call from the Enterprise and Captain Christopher Pike, Thought he'd be about 50 or so years in the future, And the nod to the original series with the Star Trek theme,

Edited February 12, 2018 by Frozendiva
typo

[Jack Kerouac]

Holy crap that was stupid and boring. And the end to the Klingon War was ridiculous. The first time Alien Head goes to sleep, they will kill her and disarm the bomb. They will be back bombing earth within 12 hours.

Gotta say, very disappointed with this series.

[DrScottie]

6 minutes ago, Frozendiva said:

Interesting distress call from the Enterprise and Captain Christopher Pike, Thought he'd be about 50 or so years in the future, And the nod to the original series with the Star Trek theme,

No. The year is 2257 by now. Captain Pike commands the Enterprise then. The Talos IV incident "The Cage" was three years before that in 2254.  Captain Kirk takes command in 2265. 

3 minutes ago, Jack Kerouac said:

Holy crap that was stupid and boring. And the end to the Klingon War was ridiculous. The first time Alien Head goes to sleep, they will kill her and disarm the bomb. They will be back bombing earth within 12 hours.

Gotta say, very disappointed with this series.

That's precisely what I thought too. I was honestly shocked nobody shot her right then. That wrapped up way too neatly. I wouldn't have handed out those medals of honor quite yet, but good for Tilly for becoming an Ensign and accepted to the Command Training Program. Today, we found out Mirror Killy wiped out the Mintakans and subjugated the Betazoids. I'd imagine she took the Holy Rings of Betazed and the Sacred Chalice of Rixx for herself. 

[Primal Slayer]

If it isn't Lorca Prime ill be surprised. I just cant see them introducing a 3rd face to us. Having essentially 5 captains in 1 season was already a bit much, acting captain or not.

I really need Georgiou to come back full time! But I wasnt surprised about her reaction to Michael. They still have feelings for their counterparts and see aspects of those people within each other. Michael is her weakness.

[ottoDbusdriver]

14 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

If it isn't Lorca Prime ill be surprised. I just cant see them introducing a 3rd face to us. Having essentially 5 captains in 1 season was already a bit much, acting captain or not.

PrimeLorca was "rescued" from a Klingon prison facility -- who knows, maybe it's Lorca from a 3rd universe.

[ahisma]

I'm disappointed they're not making Saru's command permanent. He did an outstanding job as captain under extraordinary circumstances.

Although I suppose the fleet is pretty beat up from the war, and they have a few commanders twiddling their thumbs during repair. They should be teaching replacements at the Academy, though.

[statsgirl]

Michael's speech at the end was completely eyerolling although I did appreciate the "say no" to it.  I'm going to steal that for patients with anxiety.

A fast wrap-up to the Klingon war but if the show had had a full season, I imagine it would have gone on for another 8 episodes.  I'm expecting it to break out again, just in time for Worf's parents to be killed but for the moment, I've had enough of it.  Let's move on to another species.

Nice to see Amanda back, with Mia Kirshner looking beautiful and as elegant as Jane Wyatt in long black gloves.

Interesting set-up for next season -- no more Stametz driving the spores and of course the big question of who will the new captain be. Since they're heading to Vulcan to pick him up, I was thinking a Vulcan but wasn't Spock the first Vulcan member of Starfleet?

3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

MirrorGeorgiou really did not play act real Georgiou very well, and why did Burnham try to out her on the bridge, since she knew she was not the real one.

Where did MirrorGeorgiou get the hydro bomb (that's how I heard it, didn't have the closed captioning on to be sure) ?  I get that they probably have them in the MirrorUniverse, but I highly doubt MirrorGeorgiou knows how to build one.

I think Emperor Georgiou is just too arrogant to care about outing herself to the bridge crew.  Who cares if they know? She'll defeat them all.  It seemed to me that Burnham was trying to pull her back in (I loved the exchange with Saru when he said he had become too tough to be palatable) but she wasn't having any of it.  And she was probably right because ...

the hydrogen bomb came from Cromwell.  As far as Burnham and the rest of the team knew, they were in there to map Qu'onos.  But Starfleet had decided that the only way to end the war was to blow up Qu'onos and that was what Georgiou was going to do. The bomb detonator was set to her bio signal (later changed to L'Rell's).

Sarek knew and was going along with it, to his later shame.  Burnham was pardoned and was re-instated because she figured out a way to stop the war that was more in keeping with Starfleet's mandate than genocide.

Edited February 12, 2018 by statsgirl

[Lilly77]

I'll have to watch again, but at the moment I'm appalled I spent time watching this series.  I stuck with it, defended it, and really got into the middle section of episodes.  But the last three made me have to acknowledge I wouldn't have watched it to the end if it didn't have Star Trek in the title.  Lorca's sudden descent into moustache twirling villain (and a dumb one at that) then his death, Emperor Georgiou as Captain of the Discovery, L'Rell stopping the whole Klingon war (as others have pointed out) with something nobody would have believed, Tyler going with her (The Klingons still hate humans.  Or anyone genetically different.  They would just kill him!  Also, didn't the Voq part of him essentially die, leaving just his memories?), Culber is still dead, and they did perpetuate the whole kill your gays thing.  Now if indeed that is the Enterprise at the end they are going to do something absolutely ridiculous and unbelievable with that too.    

Maybe I'm just really tired and a rewatch will leave me in a more positive frame of mind about the show, but at the moment - ughh.

[Glade]

This sort of reminded me of the letdown of the Star Trek voyager finale.  I really thought all season that they would bring in the canon universe by jumping into it, and that we would be taught to care about the characters even if they aren't canon...  And it's deplorable that they promised to bring back Hugh Culber but didn't even do it this season--they've relegated it to 'someday.'  And while it could still be prime Lorca waiting at Vulcan to be the capitain...we have no other hint.  I'd really have liked to see them continuing to barrel into chaos with the spore drive, not just wrap everything up so neatly.

Michael's growth and redemption as she did the opposite of her earlier mistake was powerful, as were her moments with Georgiou and Tyler.  You could tell how much Emporer Georgiou enjoyed shedding the starfleet uniform for her dramatic 'lowlife' garb.  But, it's just not enough.  Personally, I don't care about them meeting up with the enterprise.

[DrScottie]

7 minutes ago, Glade said:

  And it's deplorable that they promised to bring back Hugh Culber but didn't even do it this season--they've relegated it to 'someday.'

That's not really true. Hugh and Paul did reunite in the mycelial network temporarily. I don't think they ever said he would be brought back to life this season.  

[Glade]

6 minutes ago, DrScottie said:

That's not really true. Hugh and Paul did reunite in the mycelial network temporarily. I don't think they ever said he would be brought back to life this season.  

Yes, they did say he would come back to life, in the show, in a real way, leading on many gay fans who were rightfully outraged.  Wilson Cruz spoke in interviews about the larger story-line, so yes, we thought and hoped it would have happened this season. They did imply more then a brief cameo in a dream sequence.  For those of us who care about the disposability of gay couples on tv, it's not enough.  What I said is completely true--they promised to bring him back, they haven't done it, and that is bullshit. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Glade

[paigow]

This should have been the Defiant. Then there would be a lot of angst about changing history by warning them... Blah blah timeline blah blah 

[Unusual Suspect]

3 minutes ago, Glade said:

Yes, they did say he would come back to life, in the show, in a real way, leading on many gay fans who were rightfully outraged.  Wilson Cruz spoke in interviews about the larger story-line, so yes, we thought and hoped it would have happened this season. They did imply more then a brief cameo in a dream sequence.  For those of us who care about the disposability of gay couples on tv, it's not enough.  What I said is completely true--they promised to bring him back, they haven't done it, and that is bullshit. 

You'll need to provide the quote, because all I remember was "we hadn't seen the last of Hugh", which was true, we saw him in Stamet's mushroom / coma dream.

I'm not sure I buy the very quick resolution of the Klingon war, but whatever, I'm over the conflict. I'm glad to see most of the stuff wrapped up, glad to see Burnham regain her status. Tilly was a joy to watch, and the return of Clint Howard was hilarious meta humour. And I was impressed, the Enterprise looked good. At least we didn't get another mutiny, that's what I predicted.

[paigow]

Gay or straight...dead is dead where humans are concerned. Only Vulcans can come back from the dead. Bringing Prime!Culber back to life would give humanity the power of Q.

[statsgirl]

13 minutes ago, Glade said:

Yes, they did say he would come back to life, in the show, in a real way, leading on many gay fans who were rightfully outraged.  Wilson Cruz spoke in interviews about the larger story-line, so yes, we thought and hoped it would have happened this season. They did imply more then a brief cameo in a dream sequence.  For those of us who care about the disposability of gay couples on tv, it's not enough.  What I said is completely true--they promised to bring him back, they haven't done it, and that is bullshit. 

As much as I wanted Culber to come back, Cruz didn't promise it.  He said that he would be in a scene that's the best he's been in during his acting career.  Some, myself included, thought he would be alive again but he never promised it.  It was the best relationship on the show.

Among the relationships that broke up Culber died which ended the relationship with Stametz, Voq died and left L'Rell berefit, the part of Tyler that was Voq caused his relationship with Burnham to end, and Lorca's death ended whatever he wanted going with Burnham his future empress (per Jason Isaacs).  Given that Culber/Stametz was one among four couples that were ended and the only truly healthy relationship among them, I don't think it's a case of disposability of gay couples.

[thuganomics85]

Hmm... kind of an underwhelming finale for the most part, mainly because the resolution that has so many things that are far fetched to me.  Basically, Cromwell, the Federation, and even Sarek seemed down with the "blow up Kronos" plot, but then all it took was an epic speech from Michael and support from her crew, and suddenly they realize that they fucked up?  Then Georgiou refuses to comply at first, but then changes her mind because she doesn't want to kill Michael?  I can't remember, but do phasers have the stun setting, now?  Even then, she was close enough to just knock her out if she wanted too.

But in the end, the biggest "Huh?" moment is that Michael gives  L'Rell the detonator instead, and she basically declares herself the new Klingon leader, and has them all come back, less Kronos go boom.  But unless she figures out some kind of backup plan, I don't see how the other Klingons don't just kill her and take it from her, the first chance they get.  There is just so many questions here.

Also, Tyler decides to just go hang with the Klingons, because he's got nothing better to do.  Sure, why not.

All the stuff with Orion felt like every seedy, sleazy city that tends to appear in every modern sci-fi show now.  At least they were equal opportunity in the "ass in G-strings" front!

Tilly getting high was the best.  Or her pretending to be a killer badass.  Or her meeting Georgiou.  Really, Tilly is just the best in general!

So, they're going to go to Vulcan to get the new Discover captain.  Damn, what does Saru have to do to get that spot?!

Hey, it's the Enterprise!  I guess they're going to bring in Pike and the rest of that gang.  Too bad they're likely not going to take from any of the film casting, because Bruce Greenwood was a pretty awesome Pike in those (granted, he's probably busy with The Resident now.)

Overall, I'm glad that Star Trek is back in some form, but this was a rough first season.  I try to remind myself that even The Next Generation took a few seasons to get there, but I hope they figure it out soon.

[DrScottie]

10 minutes ago, Unusual Suspect said:

I'm not sure I buy the very quick resolution of the Klingon war, but whatever, I'm over the conflict. I'm glad to see most of the stuff wrapped up, glad to see Burnham regain her status. Tilly was a joy to watch, and the return of Clint Howard was hilarious meta humour. And I was impressed, the Enterprise looked good. At least we didn't get another mutiny, that's what I predicted.

They'll undoubtedly return to some fight against the Klingons next season or maybe the Romulans?  

I so wanted Clint Howard to have some Tranya on him. We did get something of a mutiny: The entire bridge crew stood with Michael to reject Admiral Cornwell's plan to blow up the homeworld.  

[KimberStormer]

As an ending this was pretty much exactly like that of a TNG two-parter.  Everything wrapped up in five seconds, all moral ambiguities and long-term love interests for the cast conveniently hustled off-screen.  Mirror Georgiou is Romulan Tasha Yar, a villain they can bring back when they get bored.

It was all terribly predictable; honestly they shouldn't have even had a "next time on Discovery" since it gave away every single thing that was going to happen, pretty much.  I guess the spore drive lives to be possibly used next season, rather than being put in that Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse as I expected it to be.  Bizarre that the Klingons, who have been defined throughout as isolationist racists, have a fun diverse cyberpunk town where people from all over can hang out and eat space whale. 

The big speech was indeed way too much, though what else is new for this show that can't stop telling the audience what to think and feel.  Its message was pretty unfashionable these days, I say as a pacifist who agrees with the "compromise your values to win and you lose" sentiment and has gotten endless shit for it in the past year.  (No, I don't want to debate this, it's not appropriate for the forum and I will delete your PMs.)  But I wonder if anyone will notice.

Who will play Spock next season?  Zachary Quinto?  Photoshopped zombie Leonard Nimoy, like Tarkin and Leia in Rogue One?

Edited February 12, 2018 by KimberStormer

[KimberStormer]

I should add that Shazad Latif really sold Ash as a human dude who could bro down with the Klingons.  Strange that he could make the Klingon language sound much more real when playing a human than when playing a Klingon, but anyway he's great and I really hope he's in lots more things in the future.  They've gotten rid of my favorite actor on the show, it sucks.

[Helena Dax]

5 hours ago, paigow said:

Gay or straight...dead is dead where humans are concerned. Only Vulcans can come back from the dead. Bringing Prime!Culber back to life would give humanity the power of Q.

Scotty died and was resurrected by Nomad. 

I agree that Michael's idea shouldn't work. The other klingons would try to kill L'Rell and steal her detonator. Anyway, even if it doesn't work, it has stopped the war for a while, which is something the Federation needed badly. We know the klingons will try to start a war about ten years later, so it wasn't meant to be a long-term solution.

I love to see Michael with Sarek and Amanda, but it breaks my heart every time. That's why I was so excited when the Enterprise appeared at the end: finally they'll have to mention Spock's name!! Now I'm really curious about next season. Will we get to see Spock? I'm pretty sure we'll meet Pike and Number One, but Spock is such an iconic character... I can't see Quinto doing it, so if they want Spock, they will have to find a different actor. It won't be easy. 

[aemom]

I've honestly never heard of the "bury your gays" trope. I was disappointed that they killed off Culber because I was happy that they finally had a proper gay couple on Star Trek and they had really had great chemistry together. 

I'd love to see Culber back, but I honestly don't see how they can possibly bring him back from the dead without all our eyeballs rolling back in our heads.

I'm trying to think who on Pike's ship could be the new captain.  The only characters that we really know from his ship in the days of The Cage are Spock and Number One. So I'm wondering if perhaps they might give us Number One as the new captain? I suppose they could also just be ferrying someone, but Number One could be interesting. 

[Peace 47]

1 hour ago, Lokiberry said:

They've had the entire back half of this season to prove that this wasn't the Bury Your Gays trope and they didn't do it. If they're now talking about bringing Culber back in corporeal form next season, it's because they bent to the backlash, not because they didn't blunder into the trope in the first place.

The entire issue seems to have gained a lot of traction since they first aired Culber’s death, and even outlets that I didn’t necessarily expect to comment took issue with “bury your gays.”  Wilson Cruz is out there cheerleading for the show, and the producers a few weeks ago even got GLAAD to issue a statement of support, but I don’t really know what to think because the story seems to be headed in a certain direction at odds with those public statements, and the cynical side of me agrees with the post above.  If they were planning something long-term for Culber, wouldn’t it have been foreshadowed in the last episode?

I fell way behind on watching this show when I didn’t subscribe to CBS All Access, but I’ve seen the last 3 episodes with a few friends (and caught myself up with recaps).  Maybe I’m not in the best position to comment as a result, but one thing that is a bit frustrating about this show is who actually constitutes the cast.  Georgiou died (fine, a twist), then Lorca was evil (okay, another twist), and Mirror Georgiou came back, but she’s not really redeemable because she is from an evil mirror universe devoid of our Starfleet’s ethics.  Culber died (a shock); Ash was a “sleeper agent” (or whatever) and he’s off with the Klingons (another twist, after last episode made a point of trying to forgive).  I get that Michael is the only necessary character, but I’m kind of left disconnected from this cast.

[aemom]

18 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

Maybe I’m not in the best position to comment as a result, but one thing that is a bit frustrating about this show is who actually constitutes the cast.  Georgiou died (fine, a twist), then Lorca was evil (okay, another twist), and Mirror Georgiou came back, but she’s not really redeemable because she is from an evil mirror universe devoid of our Starfleet’s ethics.  Culber died (a shock); Ash was a “sleeper agent” (or whatever) and he’s off with the Klingons (another twist, after last episode made a point of trying to forgive).  I get that Michael is the only necessary character, but I’m kind of left disconnected from this cast.

I agree with the disconnection so I feel that at this point, they REALLY need future episodes focusing on the bridge crew who seem rather interesting.  I feel that it is a huge oversight that they haven't done anything yet.

[starri]

Still the best tweet I’ve seen in a while. 

[shrewd.buddha]

As for things I appreciated : 

I appreciated that Ash and L'Rell and Georgiou  bowed out of the show at the end. For a while there it felt as if these characters were going to be kept around - no matter how little sense it would make.  But this also reveals one of the show's weaknesses : almost all the main characters (with speaking parts) were only around for one season. Only Michael, Tilly, Stamets and Saru are left behind - which reveals how few characters were developed in fifteen episodes. 

I also appreciated that the season did not end on a cliffhanger.
Sure, a) there was a distress call, b) there will be a new captain and c) the Enterprise shows up.  But those are things that CBS can use to hype the next season with casting news and teasers. It is not as if Discovery was being pulled into a super nova or Michael was being sucked out an airlock. 

However, it does feel as if Michael's story was brought full circle. I cannot imagine another season involving a new season-spanning mission or new love interest - or childhood trauma involving Klingons being overcome, again. Michael overcame her Klingon fears, started and stopped a war, and fell in love with a Klingon (who happened not to look, behave, smell or even think he was a Klingon - but whatever, just details..). 

8 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

The big speech was indeed way too much, though what else is new for this show that can't stop telling the audience what to think and feel. . 

I believe this is the problem with the character of Michael : the writer's cannot force an audience to embrace a character as iconic by constantly telling them how great that characters is and having all the other characters constantly praising them. I think this kind of backfired - - because how do most people react when they feel they are being over-sold on how great somebody is? 
In contrast, Tilly, Stamets and Saru  seemed to capture the attention that was supposed to be heaped onto Michael. Maybe the writers will learn a few lessons from this season. (But I do feel some sympathy for the actor/character  having to carry the burden of being "The Chosen One" for the Disco  series. )

Edited February 12, 2018 by shrewd.buddha

[marinw]

One of the few things that got to me emotionally in this episode was the shot of Stamets holding Culber’s posthumous medal. Those two were the only shippable pairing on this show IMHO

Edited February 12, 2018 by marinw

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Just because they are on their way to Vulcan to pick up their new captain doesn't necessarily the Discovery's new captain is from Vulcan.

I hadn't even thought of that. Hmm, a Vulcan captain might be extra interesting. Maybe they're trying to tease us into thinking it might be Spock or someone associated with him. (Sorry, I haven't seen all the iterations of Star Trek series so I have no idea if Spock's presence on Discovery would be against canon. ?)

[MissLucas]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Michael's speech at the end was completely eyerolling although I did appreciate the "say no" to it.  I'm going to steal that for patients with anxiety.

 

As someone with more experience in that field than I'd like to have I can only implore you to not try that or at least tread very carefully. During a panic-attack there's a considerable amount of your brain-power spent with saying (or rather yelling) 'no' - it just doesn't catch on and that adds to the already sky-rocketing stress levels. I would have walked out on any therapist giving me that piece of advice since it can come across as condescending. If you'd like to go sci-fi on patients with anxiety the Bene Gesserit litany against fear is the better option and even with that I would advise caution.

I truly enjoyed the Emperor in this episode - and Tilly.  But that's about it - the resolution to the Klingon War was way too smooth - L'Rell holds up what looks like an early tv remote from the 60s and that's it? Yeah, right.  The epic score during the bridge mutiny (if only we knew these folks a bit better to appreciate their moment of glory) was ridiculously over the top. As was that the speech at the end. Seriously Discovery, calm down!

ETA: The Orion dude who forced Tilly to inhale volcano smoke was a ST legacy, right? I think he showed up in TOS but I'm not a enough of a Trekkie to be sure.

Edited February 12, 2018 by MissLucas

[starri]

43 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

ETA: The Orion dude who forced Tilly to inhale volcano smoke was a ST legacy, right? I think he showed up in TOS but I'm not a enough of a Trekkie to be sure.

Ron Howard’s brother Clint, aka Baylock. 

[paigow]

4 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Scotty died and was resurrected by Nomad. 

 

Point taken. However, Nomad did this within minutes of killing Scotty. 

Also, Nomad did not break his neck - essentially it was an electric shock heart attack.

This ability was not part of its original programming, it was transferred from alien probe 

Edited February 12, 2018 by paigow

[cali1981]

The finale was mixed bag for me.  I loved Mirror Georgiou not even trying to suppress her innate, vicious self.  Letting her run loose in the prime universe could make for some fun next season if Michelle is on board when shooting begins.  Tilly was hilarious and props for Clint Howard's cameo.  The resolution of the Klingon war was meh at best. It seem like it was pasted together at the last minute and given the Klingon nature, L'Rell becoming head honcho with a planet killer in her hands didn't quite fit.  The show did manage to answer the question of spore vs. warp drive in the years subsequent to Discovery's era.  As many of us suspected it came down to the human cost of operating the spore drive. Burham's speech was OK but a bit cliched. OTOH, her scene with Amanda (Mia Kirshner looked beautiful) was well done.  Of course, the appearance of Christopher Pike and the Enterprise was pretty cool. Maybe they can have a hologram of Jeffery Hunter on the bridge or perhaps Bruce Greenwood

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I hadn't even thought of that. Hmm, a Vulcan captain might be extra interesting. Maybe they're trying to tease us into thinking it might be Spock or someone associated with him. (Sorry, I haven't seen all the iterations of Star Trek series so I have no idea if Spock's presence on Discovery would be against canon. ?)

Probably, since at this point, Spock is serving on the Enterprise under Captain Pike.  And Spock was never interested in having his own command -- in fact, he made a point of saying that numerous times during the original series.

[statsgirl]

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Then Georgiou refuses to comply at first, but then changes her mind because she doesn't want to kill Michael? 

Also because Michael reminded her that she would be hunted by the Federation forever if she killed her.  Georgious decided to cut her losses.  Maybe thinking that she could make some other deal with the Federation later.

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Also, Tyler decides to just go hang with the Klingons, because he's got nothing better to do.  Sure, why not.

He said that he could no longer fit into either world.  Certainly true in terms of Starfleet, they would never trust him again. The show wanted to get rid of him and since Georgious went off under the radar, this is as good a way of getting rid of Ash.

 

7 hours ago, Lokiberry said:

Sixteen years later, and the only difference is that the Star Trek showrunners knew the backlash was coming and got their PR out in front of it. They've had the entire back half of this season to prove that this wasn't the Bury Your Gays trope and they didn't do it. If they're now talking about bringing Culber back in corporeal form next season, it's because they bent to the backlash, not because they didn't blunder into the trope in the first place.

I listened to the AfterTrek show and the EPs teased bringing another Lorca on. They said that nexxt season Stametz would be dealing with the fall-out from this season, presumably Culber's death.

Earlier Cruz said that they told him that they didn't want Culber to have a Mirror Universe twin because they wanted to him to be the one character that was completely good.

Every relationship that existed going into this season blew up during it other than Burnham/Sarek.  One got back their friendship again (Burnham/Saru).  The rest are gone (e.g. Burnham/Georgiou).The relationships that were formed during the season (Burnham/Tyler, Burnham/Lorca, L'Rell/Voq) were also ended.  The only new relationships that stayed intact were Tilly's with Burnham and Stametz.  Burnham lost Georgiou to death and that weird thing with Lorca to death too.  She lost Tyler to the warping and since it's Voq's body and Tyler's mind, you could say she lost him to death too.  I think Stametz/Culber got special treatment in that it was so good and the only healthy romantic relationship they had (other than possibly L'Rell and Voq who also died). Culber being killed reminded me of the pilot episode of TOS that had a couple about to be married by Kirk before the attack and ended with the female ensign mourning the death of her almost husband.

[cali1981]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Also because Michael reminded her that she would be hunted by the Federation forever if she killed her.  Georgious decided to cut her losses.  Maybe thinking that she could make some other deal with the Federation later.

 

Or maybe Georgiou based upon her brief exposure to the prime universe figured that the Federation was too principled and "human" to be truly strong. The perceived weakness might make it easy pickings if she decided to create her own rebel force to overthrow it.  She could be an emperor again. Now that would be one great story arc.

[KimberStormer]

See, that resolution with Mirror Georgiou was super unconvincing to me.  She's totally evil and knows that's not her Michael.  Why should she care about killing her?  And why should she care if Michael (who has no authority) claims that Starfleet (the people who explicitly authorized and agreed to her plan) will hunt her down?  When blowing up the Klingons is not only the job at hand but also just what she ideologically believes in?

It's a good thing Michelle Yeoh is so delightful and obviously adored playing the villain (she was totally electric every minute she was on screen this episode), because the whole thing was crazy!

[Charlesman]

18 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

How does her threat even work? "I have this button that can blow up our home planet. But there is no way to demonstrate how it works  ... or prove that it will work. You just have to believe that the bomb exists and this button will trigger it.  Also, I can never sleep again  and must always guard against being separated from this device. "

 

Man, it was just all so dumb. Never once all season did the writers attempt to put some logic into their character's heads. 

 

I really hope that season two is a massive improvement on this dog turd of a show, and that in the future, we can just say to people "Skip season 1, you don't need it".

[DrScottie]

25 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

I really hope that season two is a massive improvement on this dog turd of a show, and that in the future, we can just say to people "Skip season 1, you don't need it".

You can at least watch the Harry Mudd Groundhog Day episode. That one was fun. 

[Charlesman]

1 hour ago, DrScottie said:

You can at least watch the Harry Mudd Groundhog Day episode. That one was fun. 

 

True. Sad how they made a it a whole serialized season, and the only good episode was the stand-alone. 

[Quark]

The whole finale just fell flat to me. Could have been so much more.

[shrewd.buddha]

8 hours ago, marinw said:

One of the few things that got to me emotionally in this episode was the shot of Stamets holding Culber’s posthumous medal.

That scene made me wonder : was Culber  the only casualty on the Discovery?
(The only other that I can recall is the security chief (replaced by Ash) who tried to shoot the Spore Creature and got trampled. And of course Lorca, but he became an evil villain, so ..)

If that is correct, then Discovery got through the MU 3-part adventure and the Klingon war with barely a scratch ... which is almost unprecedented. 
... Every adventure of the Abrams nuTrek  involves scores of crew members being sucked into space and the ship being destroyed. So, yay for minimum collateral damage ..?