S04.E05: Trans Girl Meets Girl

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jazz explores dating girls and agrees to hang out with a potential female love interest. Jeanette meets with Jazz's therapist for the therapy letter needed for Jazz's bottom surgery.

[rwlevin]

Shouldn't Jazz be asking for these letters? She's the one getting the surgery. 

[doodlebug]

13 hours ago, rwlevin said:

Shouldn't Jazz be asking for these letters? She's the one getting the surgery. 

Yep, surely no professional would be willing to provide a letter without meeting her and evaluating her psychological readiness for surgery.

im a gynecologist and see a lot of teens, many of them with their mothers.  I always try to engage the young woman herself in discussing her situation and not defer to mom to do it for her. If mom tries to take over and do all the talking, I steer things back to the young woman leading the discussion.  And this is for relatively simple issues like irregular periods or menstrual cramps or birth control.  No way a professional could give an opinion on something as life changing as gender reassignment without talking to the patient.

[Emmeline]

I’m sorry I don’t understand.  If Dr. Ting said he can do the surgery without the expander, why do they need to go back to Dr. Bowers who thought she needed it? They are on opposite coasts?  Perhaps someone can enlighten me.

It’s unfortunate Dr. Ting told her her BMI was fine.  She needs to lose weight for a variety of reasons.

[gingerella]

I dont remember Dr. Ting telling her that her BMI was fine, nor that he could do it without the expander. In fact, I thought he said specifically that the expander was needed but was not going to be fun. He also mentioned the peritonwhateverthefuckitwas, which I dont think has an expander. I got the impression if she wanted more to work with the expander was the way to go. Maybe I'm mistaken.

[MegD]

3 minutes ago, gingerella said:

I dont remember Dr. Ting telling her that her BMI was fine, nor that he could do it without the expander. In fact, I thought he said specifically that the expander was needed but was not going to be fun. He also mentioned the peritonwhateverthefuckitwas, which I dont think has an expander. I got the impression if she wanted more to work with the expander was the way to go. Maybe I'm mistaken.

I think they are both going to work on her together.

You could tell Jazz and Jeanette weren't amused that they weren't just handed the signed letter. Jazz's whole conversation was just so sad. She's so not ready for surgery. She still have the idea that surgery is a magic cure all for all of her problems and her problems are much deeper. There was so much that she said that seemed to be absolutely parroted from things she's been told over the years, like the dysmorphic comment. She doesn't seem to go deeper into it though because I think she doesn't know what she's not supposed to dislike about herself, only that she shouldn't like who she is. I blame that one on Jeanette. Not because she's "made up" Jazz being transgender, but I think she's made Jazz uncomfortable about how Jazz looks. Suddenly having to face that is going to be incredibly tough for Jazz and I hope they hold surgery until she's further along in it her addressing of her issues for her own sake. Otherwise, I think she'll get the surgery, feel the exact same, and never be happy.

I'm calling bullshit on Jazz's "I don't know how to dribble a basketball." You may be totally unathletic, but I guarantee that anyone under my age (almost 40) was forced to endure some basketball at some point during their childhood. It's a staple of gym time. Especially in private school. She was just being a brat.

[Purerockfury]

Jazz is one of the most annoying, spoiled, self centered kids I’ve seen on tv. I wish TLC had a better teen to represent transgender youth because Jazz is just annoying and isn’t doing anyone any favors.  I feel bad for those who have Jazz as their first look into the TG community  and think all transgender youth are like this. 

[JocelynCavanaugh]

It's weird because when we first met Jazz, she seemed very poised and mature for her age, but it's like she's regressed since then. I hate when she refers to herself as a "woman," not because of anything to do with gender, but because she is a CHILD. A very young 17-year-old child who appears to be on the verge of a very rough journey into adulthood. 

Somewhat in the same vein, her talk about being pansexual makes me uncomfortable, again not because I have a problem with that identity in general, but because Jazz in particular seems so delayed in terms of sexuality. I really don't think she's ready for any of this, and it's like she went with pan because it would seem the most open and tolerant. Victoria is the same age but seems to be several years older in how she presents herself. Jazz may indeed be pan, bi, or otherwise queer, but my instincts are screaming that she's nowhere close to figuring that out. I also don't think Victoria is into her at all, probably because she's picking up on that immaturity.

Their little matchmaking friend is quite the smug piece of "woke" work. Since we know TLC reads here: I would like to see 100% less of the manic pixie dream ally.

The way they were defining pansexuality came across pretty smug, too, like only pan people are enlightened enough to be attracted to SOULS and all the boring straight or gay people are too uptight to appreciate SOULS because they're hung up on silly things like genitalia. Give me a break. 

[kicotan]

I'm sorry but It confuses me when they get together for a social get-together (painting at the ceramics studio) and they talk about:

a) Jazz's ongoing bottom surgery details and how important it is, etc.

b) romantic partnering that never mentions any physical attributes as being important/desirable and even goes so far as to say the spirit/inside is the most important.

Maybe it is just me and I'm having a hard time reconciling the two, or separating it out so that it makes sense.  I will stipulate that I am older and suffer from menopausal fog from time to time, but if anyone could help me with that, I'd appreciate it!

Also, I think Jazz's explanation of how it will work when she goes to get her letters from the therapists, "so you want to be a woman, you live like a woman, it's all good, girrlllll" (not the exact quote) was a very simplistic and immature view of what she is going to need to talk about/work with the therapist before approval, no?

Edited January 31, 2018 by kicotan
Grammar Nazi

[janedi]

48 minutes ago, MegD said:

There was so much that she said that seemed to be absolutely parroted from things she's been told over the years, like the dysmorphic comment. She doesn't seem to go deeper into it though because I think she doesn't know what she's not supposed to dislike about herself, only that she shouldn't like who she is. I blame that one on Jeanette. Not because she's "made up" Jazz being transgender, but I think she's made Jazz uncomfortable about how Jazz looks. Suddenly having to face that is going to be incredibly tough for Jazz and I hope they hold surgery until she's further along in it her addressing of her issues for her own sake. Otherwise, I think she'll get the surgery, feel the exact same, and never be happy.

I'm calling bullshit on Jazz's "I don't know how to dribble a basketball." You may be totally unathletic, but I guarantee that anyone under my age (almost 40) was forced to endure some basketball at some point during their childhood. It's a staple of gym time. Especially in private school. She was just being a brat.

Thank You! I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that. Honestly anytime Jazz talks about transgender issues she sounds scripted and like she's parroting someone else's words. It's very easy to tell when she's speaking from the heart, cause she's not that good an actor. And yeah I blame it on Jeanette and the fact that so much of her identity is built around being trans. She has to dislike her body, or else she wouldn't be trans. That's sure to create a mindf**k.

I also agree about the basketball thing. That was total bull. I've seen Jazz playing basketball in other documentaries so I rolled my eyes at her claiming she can't dribble.

Edited January 31, 2018 by janedi

[Bridget]

Jazz to DMB: "He (Dr. Ting) basically said my proportions were perfect for what he envisions that a female vagina would look like." 

As opposed to a male vagina? (Is what I was thinking)I was laughing way too hard at this.

Couldn't believe she thought getting her therapy letters would be so easy...especially since she never freakin goes, or when she does, it appears as if she doesn't get a lot out of the sessions because she is so vehemently opposed to even going!

When Jazz is speaking in her talking heads, I can't stand the voice she uses to make things sound light n breezy. Is it a coping skill, the way some people laugh when they're nervous ?

"...Like, Ok you're transgender, right girl? Like, you really wanna be a woman, you live your life as a woman... and then it's gonna be boom, done yay." 

Nails on a chalkboard.

Jazz's immaturity really shone through with the BMI issue. Did Dr.Ting look at Bowers' notes on Jazz re: she needs to lose weight before surgery? I find it odd that possible shared medical notes on a patient weren't read before meeting with Jazz.  I'm not playing the blame game, and Dr. Ting probably didn't think he'd frustrate Jazz by "contradicting" Dr. Bowers' orders, which he technically did not do.  I wonder if anyone in his office read the file & said  "Jazz was told to lose weight before surgery." ? Kind of surprised we didn't see Greg ask about losing the specific amount of weight after the BMI answer, simply to clarify for himself as well as Jazz, as if to say "you can't quit your diet now, you've heard two doctors say it. Sorry kiddo!"

 I don't understand why Jazz doesn't understand that dropping 30lbs isn't the same as "we're just going back to the beginning." The beginning of what? Flying across the country to for consults? 

Instead of being appreciative that her parents even have the resources to allow her to have surgery in California, stay there and recover for a few days and then fly home, she is moaning about eating well and working out. 

She was so pissed when Dr. Bowers reminded her about losing weight, but calling it a curve ball during the yoga segment pissed me off! Jazz knew she had to lose weight, yet blamed this "newsflash" on Dr. Bowers despite it being a non-negotiable, which suggests to me that she's used to bargaining with Jeanette to get what she wants. This isn't about being bribed into cleaning out your closet; this is major surgery. I understand she isn't as mature as her peers, but if this surgery is something you have "dreamed about your whole life", wouldn't you do anything you have to do to make it happen?

I believe that her lack of maturity, which includes failing to understand that answers will sometimes change between doctors who are 3,000 miles apart, and being in (what I perceive to be) an intermittent state of denial or blaming others about an additional roadblock, weight loss (which isn't new; it was more like a misunderstanding with Dr. Ting), only strengthens Greg's point of view. It could also be her engaging in self sabotaging behavior.

I'd bet that any doctor would tell her at some point in the near future, surgery or not, "it's probably time to start thinking about losing some weight." Too many complications happen to kiddos who are heavy. God forbid she developed Diabetes. Talk about another medical issue to deal with! Her own brother told her last week that it's not healthy for Jazz to weigh 20lbs more than him. My heart breaks for her because she appears to struggle to understand some of the basics in life and when she isn't happy with an answer, it appears that her go to emotion is "pissed off."

Edited January 31, 2018 by Bridget

[missnoa]

I knew getting the letters wasn't going to be as easy as they thought it would be. Her binge eating is a sign of emotional issues that she has to deal with and she needs to do it before a major, life changing surgery that's most likely going to throw her emotionally out of whack again even though it's what she wants. She really does need to find a way of handling her stress and anxiety. I wonder why they haven't switched her to a different school - you know they can probably afford to put her in some kind of private school. Or heck, since she apparently doesn't interact with the kids at her school much anyway so there's no socialization there anyway, homeschool her. 

I also feel like her lack of self-discipline about losing weight is a combination of self-sabotage - some part of her being scared that the surgery ISN'T the magic fix-all for her issues that she's praying it is - and how her parents have let her run the show for years and years. They're so worried about being supportive that they forget they're also her parents, not just her cheerleaders, and now when they need to try and step in and get a handle on things their attempts are weak and ineffective and it's like they're approaching her as a friend instead of a parent.

On a completely unimportant note, I wonder why she repeats the full name of the doctor she's talking about every time she talks about them. And she'll do it multiple times a segment even when she just said their name 3 sentences ago. That's overboard even for product placement.

Edited January 31, 2018 by missnoa

[Visaman666]

Just so people here fully understand, the perienium is the colon, aka, the Poop Chute. They are going to drill a hole in her Pooper, folks! That's why it's self lubicating! That's why she needs to lose 30 pounds. I am trans pre op. So I know whereof I speak.

[rwlevin]

It’s not about her losing weight. It’s about her understanding why she turns to food. I liked the therapist. She hit the nail on the head. If Jazz can’t figure out a way to control her emotional eating, how is she going to be able to handle her surgery? That’s why she isn’t giving the letter. And I applaud her for that.

[Caracoa1]

If Jazz can't be disciplined enough to lose weight before surgery then how is she going to be disciplined enough to follow through on post surgery procedures?  It would be sad to see her lose weight only to balloon back up while she is on bed rest.

[Visaman666]

Sorry if I was gross in my previous note, but the thought of that procedure squicks me out. This season is bad enough that at age 53,  I am thinking of forgetting all about  being trans.

Perhaos it is my age, but that get together with Victoria could hardly be called a date. The women on The Bachelor are more affectionate with each other, and they are straight. How much older is Victoria, that she has had 5 relationships? Maybe she meant dates?

[kicotan]

2 hours ago, Visaman666 said:

Just so people here fully understand, the perienium is the colon, aka, the Poop Chute. They are going to drill a hole in her Pooper, folks! That's why it's self lubicating! That's why she needs to lose 30 pounds. I am trans pre op. So I know whereof I speak.

Hmmm.  My understanding is the peritoneum is the abdominal tissue that encases your internal organs, not the colon itself.

according to wiki: "The peritoneum is the serous membrane that forms the lining of the abdominal cavity or coelom in amniotes and some invertebrates, such as annelids. It covers most of the intra-abdominal (or coelomic) organs, and is composed of a layer of mesothelium supported by a thin layer of connective tissue."

Edited January 31, 2018 by kicotan
Definition of peritoneum from wiki

[kicotan]

7 hours ago, Bridget said:

Jazz to DMB: "He (Dr. Ting) basically said my proportions were perfect for what he envisions that a female vagina would look like." 

As opposed to a male vagina? (Is what I was thinking)I was laughing way too hard at this.

I could have sworn Dr. Ting said "labia"...but, in Jazz's defense, I see lots of women referring to their labia as their vagina. (And it drives me batty!)

[bichonblitz]

12 hours ago, gingerella said:

I dont remember Dr. Ting telling her that her BMI was fine, nor that he could do it without the expander. In fact, I thought he said specifically that the expander was needed but was not going to be fun. He also mentioned the peritonwhateverthefuckitwas, which I dont think has an expander. I got the impression if she wanted more to work with the expander was the way to go. Maybe I'm mistaken.

If you have the opportunity, watch the episode again. He said he could do it without the expander and her BMI was not an issue for the surgery. That's why Jazz and delusional Jeanette were so happy.  I didn't like him at all. 

Speaking of Jeanette, did she really think getting that letter was a slam dunk? The woman doesn't have a clue. 

[Maricopa]

18 minutes ago, kicotan said:

I see lots of women referring to their labia as their vagina.

Geez, I can't recall even one time I heard anyone talk about her vagina. I think most of us had to do the mirror-up-the-crotch thing when learning to insert the first tampon, but that's about it. When you menstruate every 28 days it just becomes a part of you that isn't really of interest, or maybe that's just me.

[Kid]

On 1/31/2018 at 1:17 AM, Bridget said:

 

Jazz's immaturity really shone through with the BMI issue. Did Dr.Ting look at Bowers' notes on Jazz re: she needs to lose weight before surgery? I find it odd that possible shared medical notes on a patient weren't read before meeting with Jazz.  I'm not playing the blame game, and Dr. Ting probably didn't think he'd frustrate Jazz by "contradicting" Dr. Bowers' orders, which he technically did not do.  I wonder if anyone in his office read the file & said  "Jazz was told to lose weight before surgery." ? Kind of surprised we didn't see Greg ask about losing the specific amount of weight after the BMI answer, simply to clarify for himself as well as Jazz, as if to say "you can't quit your diet now, you've heard two doctors say it. Sorry kiddo!"

 I don't understand why Jazz doesn't understand that dropping 30lbs isn't the same as "we're just going back to the beginning." The beginning of what? Flying across the country to for consults? 

Instead of being appreciative that her parents even have the resources to allow her to have surgery in California, stay there and recover for a few days and then fly home, she is moaning about eating well and working out. 

She was so pissed when Dr. Bowers reminded her about losing weight, but calling it a curve ball during the yoga segment pissed me off! Jazz knew she had to lose weight, yet blamed this "newsflash" on Dr. Bowers despite it being a non-negotiable, which suggests to me that she's used to bargaining with Jeanette to get what she wants. This isn't about being bribed into cleaning out your closet; this is major surgery. I understand she isn't as mature as her peers, but if this surgery is something you have "dreamed about your whole life", wouldn't you do anything you have to do to make it happen?

I believe that her lack of maturity, which includes failing to understand that answers will sometimes change between doctors who are 3,000 miles apart, and being in (what I perceive to be) an intermittent state of denial or blaming others about an additional roadblock, weight loss (which isn't new; it was more like a misunderstanding with Dr. Ting), only strengthens Greg's point of view. It could also be her engaging in self sabotaging behavior.

I'd bet that any doctor would tell her at some point in the near future, surgery or not, "it's probably time to start thinking about losing some weight." Too many complications happen to kiddos who are heavy. God forbid she developed Diabetes. Talk about another medical issue to deal with! Her own brother told her last week that it's not healthy for Jazz to weigh 20lbs more than him. My heart breaks for her because she appears to struggle to understand some of the basics in life and when she isn't happy with an answer, it appears that her go to emotion is "pissed off."

 

 It is the psychologist that got to the heart of the issue.  And she totally missed the point of what the psychologist told her. The weight is not the issue, the weight is the SYMPTOM.  The psychologist was very clear that she has to find a healthy coping mechanism. That is the issue and,  if she does that, the weight will drop.  I have struggled with compulsive over eating all my life so I understand what’s going on.

 Of course, neither Jazz nor her mother listened as they were too busy wondering if they were going to get the letter. Her father got it when it was explained to him.  

Frankly, I think her mother needs to do some therapy as well because I believe she is one of Jazz biggest problems.  Her mother has become an enabler who will do anything to appease Jazz.   She has lost all objectivity and I think the stress of the situation has taken a toll on her as well.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Kid

[Maricopa]

Apropos the weight issue, I don't see Jazz as being overweight. Maybe at the high end of the weight chart, but hardly the drama it's being made out to be. I think she looks pretty normal...not exactly a candidate for other TLC shows like 600-lb.

Also, I really like the green streak in her hair, works beautifully. That said, the hair is long, stringy, and obviously very dirty most of the time. Maybe she's equating super-long hair with being female? But when it's oily, her ears just stick out Shrek-esquely from underneath and it's not a pretty look. I think she'd look terrific with a bra-length layered cut, which might be easier to shampoo once in awhile. The proprietor of the craft-painting store looked very feminine, hip, and trendy with her fun color/cut and knit cap, maybe she could try that.

[MegD]

1 hour ago, Visaman666 said:

Just so people here fully understand, the perienium is the colon, aka, the Poop Chute. They are going to drill a hole in her Pooper, folks! That's why it's self lubicating! That's why she needs to lose 30 pounds. I am trans pre op. So I know whereof I speak.

Given how they were talking, I am pretty sure they were referring to the serous membrane that covers the inside of the abdominal cavity. I got the impression they were planning on taking a section, almost as if it was skin graph, and using that to create the internal structures of the vagina. This is the structure that can get infected when the appendix ruptures. Since there is a small gap with serous fluid between the organs and the peritoneum, when the appendix ruptures, the infection can spread quickly around the abdominal cavity. Or (jf you watch My 600 lb Life), it's the surface that fat grows on around the abdominal organs that is visible during Dr. Now's stomach surgeries. There's a similar membrane surrounding the heart, called the pericardium. Changes in the balance of that fluid can have profound medical results and it's probably the most widely known serous membrane. The lower third of the rectum (the end of the colon) is outside and below the peritoneum. There was some discussion previously about using a section of colon to form her vagina, but Jazz couldn't get over the idea that it might smell for a little while. It was one of the other consultations that she went on and she shut down that idea fast.

7 hours ago, Bridget said:

 I don't understand why Jazz doesn't understand that dropping 30lbs isn't the same as "we're just going back to the beginning." The beginning of what? Flying across the country to for consults? 

I think this is exactly what she meant. I get the impression that she's going to be a doctor shopper. When she doesn't like what a doctor has to say, she's going to go find another doctor who will agree with her. That's why she went on at least 3 consults in the search for "American's Next Top Vagina" last season. She wanted one surgery, that wouldn't need any hormones or skin expanders, and that wouldn't use colon to create the vagina. She kept going to doctors until she found one in Dr. Bowers who said she could do that for her. It would be one thing to get a second opinion, but the all over the country thing was a bit much. I suspect there were doctors that refused to be filmed and she either went to them and didn't like their answers either or didn't consider them in this push to get this on TV. I've seen it often as my father is a dentist. He'll get people who show up wanting to hear a different answer from what they've been told. Unfortunately, there are unscrupulous doctors out there that take advantage of these individuals (and I'm not throwing Dr. Ting or Dr. Bowers under that bus) and if Jazz is already learning how to doctor shop, she's going to have the potential as she gets older and her health concerns become more serious. Not to mention that if she's doctor shopping for the letters from doctors that will match her criteria, those are pretty much going to come from the doctors that prey on doctor shoppers, charging exorbitant fees to give the patient what the patient thinks they want without ever addressing the underlying problem. It's a dangerous pattern for Jazz, especially if she's this young and already doing it.

53 minutes ago, Visaman666 said:

Perhaos it is my age, but that get together with Victoria could hardly be called a date. The women on The Bachelor are more affectionate with each other, and they are straight. How much older is Victoria, that she has had 5 relationships? Maybe she meant dates?

The kids these days define relationships much differently than even I did in and I graduated college in 2001. They are in a relationship after a couple of conversations and maybe a couple of group dates. They break up just as fast. I got to watch it when I was coaching a high school swim team. So much unnecessary drama!

[bichonblitz]

Why does Jazz always say that who ever she has a relationship with will have to handle her because she is a lot ? What is her definition of a lot? Making everything about yourself? Being depressed and moody? doing only what you want to do when you want to do it? Okay, I get it then. Yes, Jazz, you are a lot.

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, Visaman666 said:

Just so people here fully understand, the perienium is the colon, aka, the Poop Chute. They are going to drill a hole in her Pooper, folks! That's why it's self lubicating! That's why she needs to lose 30 pounds. I am trans pre op. So I know whereof I speak.

Actually, the perineum is the skin covered area between the scrotum and the anus in a male, between the vaginal opening and the anus in a female.  It is not self lubricating.  And, of course, it is the area that would be opened in order to create a neovagina.

And the peritoneum, as noted above, is the lining of the abdominal cavity which can be used to create the interior surface of the neovagina.

I think you've mixed the two things together.

BTW, women refer to their external genitalia as their vagina all the time.  'My vagina itches', 'my vagina is swollen'. I gently correct them by using the proper terminology, but it's a daily occurrence in my life.

And, yes, Jazz is a doctor shopper.  She is going to keep on going to doctors until one of them lets her call all the shots and will do things Jazz' way.  She's learned that from dealing with her mother who enables this behavior.  Then, if things don't magically turn out the way she wants, she will moan and cry and complain and blame it on the doctors.

Edited January 31, 2018 by doodlebug

[Granny58]

3 hours ago, Visaman666 said:

Just so people here fully understand, the perienium is the colon, aka, the Poop Chute. They are going to drill a hole in her Pooper, folks! That's why it's self lubicating! That's why she needs to lose 30 pounds. I am trans pre op. So I know whereof I speak.

the perineum is the bit of space between the anus and scrotum or vagina (you can touch it with your finger).  The peritoneum (which is what they've been discussing) is the lining of the abdominal cavity (internal).

55 minutes ago, kicotan said:

I could have sworn Dr. Ting said "labia"...but, in Jazz's defense, I see lots of women referring to their labia as their vagina. (And it drives me batty!)

I see it ALL THE TIME and drives me batty too.  

[Emmeline]

This is from an article linked to Dr. Ting’s web site.  It is a newer surgery using the peritoneum tissue.  

“They were performing surgeries on women with a rare disorder that causes the organ to develop abnormally or not at all. So they had to start from scratch, which requires a lot of material. They found a way to do that with tissue from the peritoneum, which is basically a bag of loose tissue that encircles the inside of your abdomen and holds your guts in place.”

[Quilty]

Soooo many excuses already!

Soon we'll be watching " My 600 lb  Transgender Life".

[CousinAmy]

39 minutes ago, Emmeline said:

This is from an article linked to Dr. Ting’s web site.  It is a newer surgery using the peritoneum tissue.  

“They were performing surgeries on women with a rare disorder that causes the organ to develop abnormally or not at all. So they had to start from scratch, which requires a lot of material. They found a way to do that with tissue from the peritoneum, which is basically a bag of loose tissue that encircles the inside of your abdomen and holds your guts in place.”

Dr. Ting said, "groin" which is not the inside of the abdominal cavity. I think he's confused!

Do older teens really go to those clay studios? I thought that was an activity for 9 -12 year olds, tops.

When they are talking about the BMI, are they talking about the female scale or the male? There are two different charts because males tend to have more muscle tissue. I don't even know if BMI is used for teens, because it was originally formulated for adults (many years ago. Have the charts ever been updated?)

[Kid]

1 hour ago, Maricopa said:

 

Apropos the weight issue, I don't see Jazz as being overweight. Maybe at the high end of the weight chart, but hardly the drama it's being made out to be. I think she looks pretty normal...not exactly a candidate for other TLC shows like 600-lb.

 

The medical doctors are looking at it as a health issue for a person who is going to undergo major surgery.  Hospitals have guidelines and she needs to be within those guidelines. The psychologist is looking at it from a psychological point of view and she is absolutely right. If she doesn’t get a handle on the reason she is a binge eating, she will end up on my 600 pound life. At this point, she is not morbidly obese.  But, a food addiction, unchecked,  leads to morbid obesity.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Kid

[doesntworkonwood]

2 hours ago, kicotan said:

I could have sworn Dr. Ting said "labia"...but, in Jazz's defense, I see lots of women referring to their labia as their vagina. (And it drives me batty!)

From what I recall, he said both. He said that the tissue already there is enough to make a labia and they will use peritoneal tissue to make a vagina. 

[rwlevin]

38 minutes ago, CousinAmy said:

There are two different charts because males tend to have more muscle tissue. I don't even know if BMI is used for teens, because it was originally formulated for adults (many years ago. Have the charts ever been updated?)

There are not two different charts for the BMI.  It's the same calculation. But yes,  the BMI is used for teens and kids but it's used differently. It based on percentile. In other words, compared to kids your own age, if your bmi is between the 85th and 95th percentile you're overweight and above 95 you're obese.  However, at 17 you can pretty much use the adult numbers. 

[Muffyn]

It looks to me like Jazz had already dropped quite a bit of the weight by the time this episode was filmed.  She looks much smaller than she did when they went to the conference (during hurricane Irma) and when she saw Dr. Bowers.  It feels like the show is again dragging something out for the sale of the storyline.  I appreciated that the therapist was talking about needing to explore her reasons for binging.  One way or another, the therapists are both saying they need to speak with her off camera in actual sessions prior to issuing a letter.  That's how it works for everyone else, so of course that how it works for her.  

The focus issue to me as well as the many doctors she has seen are more a matter of being on the show than anything else.  The show has a story to tell and right now it is all about genitals and potential dating.  

[calpurnia99]

Dr. Ting said he has done this surgery on people with worse BMIs than hers. There is a big difference between someone in their 40's who is 30-40 pounds overweight and a 16 year old who is binge eating and has gained 30 pounds in less than a year. 

If you eat one ounce per week more than you burn off that is about 1/4 pound per month gained. That is 3 pounds per year. In ten years you will have gained 30 pounds and all you do is eat one ounce more per week than you burn off! Time goes by and each decade you do not overeat but just enjoy life and you slowly gain weight. You don't binge eat, you watch what you eat, but you are sedentary and eat a few cookies now and then. By the time you are 40 you are 35 pounds more than you were when you were 20! We all know this scenario.  If Jazz continues to eat the way she is, she will be 100 pounds heavier in 4 years from now.

I am sure Dr. Ting and Dr. Marci Bowers have had older patients who were not slim and fit who have done just fine. It is not the same thing to do this surgery on a 45 year old who is 30 pounds over weight and Jazz. The fact is that she is a child and is in terrible condition for this surgery.  Dr. Bowers is right, she wants Jazz to be at her optimal health for the best outcome. 

[ClareWalks]

I have a lot of empathy for Jazz but she was really obnoxious this episode. I'm tired of listening to her whining about how she is so fat, but she loves to binge eat and doesn't want to do anything about it. Becoming an adult is about a lot of things, including delayed gratification and moderation. Jazz seems more interested in her short-term comfort than her long-term success.

[Adiba]

The thing that stands out to me about Jazz is that while she says she really wants the surgery, she doesn’t seem to be willing to do what’s necessary to have it— the weight loss and the therapy. When told she might have to use male hormone cream or tissue expanders, she balked as well. So now, she heard about a new procedure for mtf surgery using peritoneal tissue and wants that done but Dr. Bowers still wants the weight loss and letters—Jazz still is complaining.

 I agree with others here that Jazz may not be ready or mature enough right now for surgery. How will she handle any post-op pain or complications? What if the result is not exactly what she envisioned or she needs follow-up procedures to correct a problem?

[jactv]

I am not a fan of Machaela (how ever you spell it). She might be a good friend but it seems like she is really just turning it on for the cameras and might be a bad influence on Jazz.

Worst moment of the episode is when Jazz BROKE her ceramic before she was even done! Like GURL WTF!

Victoria looks too much like Jazz's sister Ari and it kinda creeps me out. Not sure if anything comes from it or if its just another one the those clips the show does to make her feel bad that she's the only 17 year old that is'nt in love.

Noelle is the highlight of every episode for me. She is much more mature than Jazz and deals with things in a better way.

[retired watcher]

4 hours ago, Kid said:

 It is the psychologist that got to the heart of the issue.  And she totally missed the point of what the psychologist told her. The weight is not the issue, the weight is the SYMPTOM.  The psychologist was very clear that she has to find a healthy coping mechanism. That is the issue and,  if she does that, the weight will drop.  I have struggled with compulsive over eating all my life so I understand what’s going on.

 Of course, neither her nor her mother listened as they were too busy wondering if they were going to get the letter. Her father got it when it was explained to him.  

Frankly, I think her mother needs to do some therapy as well because I believe she is one of Jazz’s  biggest problems.  Her mother has become an enabler who will do anything to appease Jazz.   She has lost all objectivity and I think the stress of the situation has taken a toll on her as well.

Last season and this season have become the Jeanette show. She seems to be thriving on the spotlight. I don't know why she is not seeing Jazz's immaturity and body image issues.

[Kid]

Just now, retired watcher said:

Last season and this season have become the Jeanette show. She seems to be thriving on the spotlight. I don't know why she is not seeing Jazz's immaturity and body image issues.

This is why the Munchhausen disorder entered my mind and the mind of another person on this forum.

[calpurnia99]

5 hours ago, Maricopa said:

Apropos the weight issue, I don't see Jazz as being overweight. Maybe at the high end of the weight chart, but hardly the drama it's being made out to be. I think she looks pretty normal...not exactly a candidate for other TLC shows like 600-lb.

Also, I really like the green streak in her hair, works beautifully. That said, the hair is long, stringy, and obviously very dirty most of the time. Maybe she's equating super-long hair with being female? But when it's oily, her ears just stick out Shrek-esquely from underneath and it's not a pretty look. I think she'd look terrific with a bra-length layered cut, which might be easier to shampoo once in awhile. The proprietor of the craft-painting store looked very feminine, hip, and trendy with her fun color/cut and knit cap, maybe she could try that.

This is because her face is not heavy...yet ...and she carries her fat evenly all around her body and nothing looks grossly odd...yet. She also dresses to hide it and most of her talking heads just show her head, which does not look overweight. However she put on about 30-40 pounds in 6 months and she is only 5 foot 2. If you are used to being 40 pounds lighter and add 40 pounds quickly, you do feel fat and do not fit into any of your clothing. You also look shockingly different to those who know you.   I agree with you that she does not walk into the room and the first thing you think is "oh my this is a fat person" at all.  If she started out the show and looked like this, none of us would be talking about her weight and how heavy she is . The issue is  how rapidly it came on, the big change in how she looks,  and how she admits she is a binge eater and can't stop. If she continues going at this rate, she will look morbidly obese within a year or two.,

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought Jazz did a great job of outlining all the things that are concerning about her for her old therapist, although, I'm not sure she knew it.  Did you see that therapist's face? OMG.  The alarm bells went off.  There are so many issues with her.  As for Jeanette.....she's an adult. SHE should realize that the WHOLE POINT of the letter is to confirm facts about the patients readiness.  What good is a piece of paper that does not reflect the patient's readiness?  THAT is a disservice to the patient.  She needs to think this through. Last night, she seemed to be pushing this too much, imo. 

Once again, Jazz demonstrates just how immature she is.  It's very obvious.  Throwing the bowl up in the air until it broke....OMG.  This is my theory.  She started painting it....didn't like the way it looked it and decided that breaking it was one way to solve that problem.  I'm not kidding. Recall how she told the therapist that things had to be perfect or not at all. 

Once again, she seems to brag to her friends on how difficult she is or what a handful she is to her friends.   It's like she is proud of being a brat.  A lot of people don't like that.  Not everyone caves in and caters to difficult people.   And, I wonder if that is why she has such an issue at school.  They may not treat her as special as she wants.  Is this her second or third school from when the show started?

I wish that Jazz's parents would  educate themselves about eating disorders.  They keep talking about Jazz's eating and weight as if it's something to fix, take care of it, solve, get over, etc.  It's not that simple.  This is likely a life long matter that she will need to approach daily.  If you watch many documentaries about morbidly obese adults, they almost always recount how they gained A LOT of weight in their teens and how eating brought them comfort.   They just ignore it or accept it and by the time they are in their twenties, they are over 300 pounds.  Then it gets even worse.  I don't  think that Jazz's parents have any clue about what Jazz may be facing with her rapid weight gain, compulsion to isolate and eat, and unwillingness to seek treatment for it. 

Edited January 31, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[maggiegil]

Dr Ting described his results as "mixed" which made them look shocked for a second and then agree to it fairly quickly. I hope off camera that they had a proper discussion of expectations, results, complications etc.

I wonder how large the skin grafts will be, thats going to hurt a lot

 

If Jazz saying she likes to eat so it doesn't matter if she dies a few years younger wasn't a major red flag for the therapist then she should have her license revoked. 

[Bridget]

7 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I have a lot of empathy for Jazz but she was really obnoxious this episode. I'm tired of listening to her whining about how she is so fat, but she loves to binge eat and doesn't want to do anything about it. Becoming an adult is about a lot of things, including delayed gratification and moderation. Jazz seems more interested in her short-term comfort than her long-term success.

Everything you typed!! Yes!!!

I also couldn't believe she even thought about tossing the painted bowl in the air at the Paint Your Pottery place. I was truly shocked when it crashed (call me naive), mostly because she didn't seem to have a reaction.

No "oh crap, what a waste of money."

No "I worked so hard on that and now it's ruined."

She didn't even look disappointed that it was ruined after all of the effort and work that went into it. (I know she didn't pay for it herself, but she doesn't need to be wasting TLC's money like that.)

I know I'm probably reaching, but if she's not even slightly bummed out about ruining a piece of art that she broke because she decided to throw it up into the air and play a game of "Does Gravity Really Work?", then how much will she take care of her body post-surgery?

I'm not suggesting the bowl is a metaphor for her eventual vagina or her not taking care of herself if she loses 30 pounds, but that scene really bugged me. It said so much about her character, even though she didn't actually say anything about the broken bowl.  

5 hours ago, jactv said:

I am not a fan of Machaela (how ever you spell it). She might be a good friend but it seems like she is really just turning it on for the cameras and might be a bad influence on Jazz.

Worst moment of the episode is when Jazz BROKE her ceramic before she was even done! Like GURL WTF!

Victoria looks too much like Jazz's sister Ari and it kinda creeps me out. Not sure if anything comes from it or if its just another one the those clips the show does to make her feel bad that she's the only 17 year old that is'nt in love.

Noelle is the highlight of every episode for me. She is much more mature than Jazz and deals with things in a better way.

Exactly! Michaela seems to be too old to be hanging out with a 17 year old. Do we even know her age? She looks like she's a college sophomore. I don't even remember the back story on how they became friends. Was there a back story presented and I missed it? 

She appreciates nothing. Pissed me off.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Bridget

[janey99]

Michaela Paige seems to be some sort of self styled musician and motivational speaker for teens.  I won't post a link because I don't know if that's allowed here, but you can easily google her.  I have no idea how she got hooked up with Jazz, but would love to find out that back story if anyone knows it!

[ClareWalks]

24 minutes ago, Bridget said:

also couldn't believe she even thought about tossing the painted bowl in the air at the Paint Your Pottery place. I was truly shocked when it crashed (call me naive), mostly because she didn't seem to have a reaction.

That was so bizarre. She didn't even think about the fact that when it shattered it might scatter and hit someone. She really just gave zero fucks. It's either a sign of severe depression or a sign of severe immaturity (or both). I noticed everyone else with her was like "....."

[princelina]

6 hours ago, retired watcher said:

Last season and this season have become the Jeanette show. She seems to be thriving on the spotlight. I don't know why she is not seeing Jazz's immaturity and body image issues.

I think you answered your own question :)

[Bridget]

37 minutes ago, janey99 said:

Michaela Paige seems to be some sort of self styled musician and motivational speaker for teens.  I won't post a link because I don't know if that's allowed here, but you can easily google her.  I have no idea how she got hooked up with Jazz, but would love to find out that back story if anyone knows it!

Thank you for the info. Google is great! If anyone has a few minutes, just Google her name and you'll be shocked to see what things she's participated in. I can't believe I've forgotten her existence on one of my favorite shows with four coaches in big red chairs. 

The age difference is odd (MP will be 22 in March of this year). I'd hate to think she's using this show as a platform for personal and/or professional gain. I say this because she included "Season 4 of I am Jazz" in her Instagram biography. 

I hate to be negative, but something doesn't seem right here, unless there is a major back story between Jazz & Michaela that has yet to be revealed, which is odd because this show is pretty much all about people sharing their own very personal stories and struggles.  Hmmm....

[brilliantbreakfast]

6 hours ago, Kid said:

This is why the Munchhausen disorder entered my mind and the mind of another person on this forum.

That was me.  And the longer this series goes on, the more I am starting to wonder.  At the very least, Jeannette has to stop putting a CHILD out there on TV and radio shows with people who will tell her she's unnatural.  What kind of mother does that?

[kicotan]

29 minutes ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

That was me.  And the longer this series goes on, the more I am starting to wonder.  At the very least, Jeannette has to stop putting a CHILD out there on TV and radio shows with people who will tell her she's unnatural.  What kind of mother does that?

I went looky-looing about the internet and found a post on a gossip site that claimed that what Greg "does for a living" is run a foundation.

Most folks that run foundations spend their time advocating and fundraising for said foundation.

http://www.transkidspurplerainbow.org/

Perhaps Jeanette's support of their foundation and the propping up of the spokesperson (Jazz) for the foundation bleeds over into the way she mothers, or vice versa?

just a thought.

[Sew Sumi]

I'm pretty sure that Greg is an attorney. He may *also* run that foundation, but I don't think that's his day job.