S06.E12: All For Nothing

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Lance is so delusional,it's sad and creepy at this point.He's just acting like this is Laurel,only she went crazy or lost her memory or something and completely ignoring the fact that she's a different person from another earth who just looks like LL but it's not actually her.It's not that difficult to get since we saw Oliver and Felicity faced with Nazi Oliver and even Nazi Tommy and they managed to make the separation and not go insane about I.At this point I'm rooting for Lance getting himself killed tbh,because being that dumb kinda deserves it.I'm actually rooting for this whole Dinah,BS,Lance situation to end with all of them gone but I'm not that lucky lol

What's even worse is what exactly were those pictures supposed to do? She's NOT Laurel. Hey look how awesome and beautiful MY daughter was she had this great life...which you didn't have because you're NOT her. Seriously, WTF?! 

[tangerine95]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

What's even worse is what exactly were those pictures supposed to do? She's NOT Laurel. Hey look how awesome and beautiful MY daughter was she had this great life...which you didn't have because you're NOT her. Seriously, WTF?! 

Exactly,I just don't know what's his goal here.Is BS supposed to replace Laurel?like does he want her to become his daughter and consider him a father and take up LL' life?I do think they're not thinking this through and all Lance is for them is a mouthpiece for fans who want BS redeemed because she's played by KC.But it's making Lance look like he needs professional help.

[Guest]

I did laugh when Quentin had footage of Laurel saving that kid (I think it was in s4). Did Laurel hire someone to film her heroic efforts so she could go home and watch them later? ?

I'm kidding. It did make me LOL though.

[doesntworkonwood]

41 minutes ago, tv echo said:

It aggravates me that that show is being written like NTA did nothing wrong and are the injured party, while OTA tries to appease them and get them back.

I'm not sure that they're actually doing this, but I'm also not sure that they're not. 

When the break up was spoiled, I was really worried that they'd try to paint OTA and more specifically Oliver in the wrong, but they haven't done that. In fact, they seem to have gone miles and miles in the other direction. OTA are not only not in the wrong, but they're coming off so well, I'm slightly in awe. This is not something the show has really done before, Oliver doesn't feel guilty over anything and he's just there to get the job done. He's acting like an adult, he's become kind of a role model to me for dealing with things well and not letting stupid shit get to him. I spent some time really disliking Oliver in past seasons for his action, but now I actually kind of want to be like him and that's not something I ever thought I'd say. OTA haven't blamed the other three for anything, they're just doing their jobs and getting on with it. 

On the other hand, 2/3rds of Team Toddler were shown as being in the wrong before the break up, with Dinah keeping her relationship with Vigilante a secret and Rene testifying against Oliver. And now they're acting like petulant babies, expecting help from OTA whilst keeping info to themselves. Making snarky comments and blaming OTA for their own faults. They don't seem to be able to get over it, and when you compare their behaviour to OTA's, there is a stark difference. 

If Arrow were any other show, I'd say that this was on purpose. But it is Arrow, and the writers have never been known to be even in the same ballpark as the audience as far as perception goes. So maybe it's not on purpose, and maybe the writers do think that Team Toddler are the injured party. As we're not getting any comments from the writers themselves, it's very difficult to tell. 

[Guest]

I am waiting for them to throw OTA under the bus tbh, just to make the newbies right or something. I feel like it's gonna happen soon. Trouble is I'll know what they're doing so it'll just make me resent the newbies more. ?

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

It aggravates me that the show is being written like NTA did nothing wrong and are the injured party, while OTA tries to appease them and get them back.

 

 

THIS so MUCH! Other than those NOOBS pissing me off even more--with Rene's passive aggressive bullshit and tone deaf comment about PTSD, when he knows JACK SHIT what that even feels like, to Curtis' huffing and puffing to stop Oliver from killing Vince, with the "we were going to tell you...eventually." Meaning, they had no intent to tell Oliver that Vince was a double agent, because that was their Trump card over OTA. Then Dinah with her hypocritical bitchiness.

52 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I don't really see OTA as trying to appease them and get them back because NTA did nothing wrong or were the injured party. It more seems like OTA recognize that because the bad guys are a team that they should probably work together for the bigger picture of the city and are tolerating the newbies' snark. 

Maybe not appease, but Oliver's conversation with Vince, where Oliver tells him that he doesn't have their trust back, and Vince is all, like I give a damn. That showed me that Oliver wants their fucking trust back, when it should be the other way around. Oliver didn't BETRAY these petulant, whiny assholes. And Rene's constant "this doesn't change things," "we're not coming back," blah, blah, blah, just gives me rage blackout. Why Oliver, Diggle and Felicity continue to take on this bullshit, is beyond my understanding.

I'm so glad I wasn't watching live, because I could fast forward the wuv that devewuped between Vince and Dinah, and anything with the NOOBS.

I totally knew Anatoly wasn't really torturing Vince and those screams were a set up. I hate that he and Oliver are no longer friends. I miss Anatoly's smiles and laughs and "My first favorite American!" to Oliver.

And I'm also wondering where the oodles of money Malcolm left to Thea are? And why she's not using that to pay off EVUHL!FINCH?

Speaking of, with two goons down, maybe Reese new henchman will show up in the form of one Jim Caviezel?

What? What?

Edited February 2, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Maybe not appease, but Oliver's conversation with Vince, where Oliver tells him that he doesn't have their trust back, and Vince is all, like I give a damn.

When did he say that? He told Vince that Vince doesn't have his trust and that's when Vince said that he didn't give a damn. The only point that he brought the newbies up was mentioning that while they trust Vince, Oliver is still weary because Vince tried to kill them last year. Vince was then their only way in so they went with a plan that Felicity made, newbies had almost nothing to do with it except vouch for Vince which then once again shows that Oliver is willing to work with the newbies while the newbies are being petulant.

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, Hiveminder said:

Oliver and Dinah are former co-workers who still work in the same industry and interact, nothing more. 

But Green Arrow's story can't be told without Black Canary, amirite?

 

14 hours ago, WindofChange said:

Anyways... Who wants Curtis to rot in hell while Alena replaces him completely? 

Why would Curtis need replacing? Haven't we been talking about how Curtis have been essentially usurping Felicity's skills and storylines? I like Alena but no, this show really does not need another hacker. I like her as Felicity's friend and occasional ally. But no I don't want her on the team. 

 

13 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

So.. Like every week ppl are gonna find new ways to bitch abt NTA

Because every week the show provides new opportunities to hate on them. They may seem fine to you but as enumerated by others upthread there are a ton of reasons why people are bitching about the whiny asshats. 

 

13 hours ago, ladylaw99 said:

I can'believe I am saying this but if this is all they got for Quinton I rather he leave the show, because tonight was pathetic.

Paul Blackthorne is being thoroughly wasted. I hope Quentin leaves at the end of the season. Maybe just go to Vegas to be with Mama Smoak (if Papa Smoak is no longer around) since the new Arrow novel apparently shows he's still hung up on her. 

I haven 't actually watched the episode. Judging from what I've read on Twitter and what's been talked about it here, I don't know that I would. 

[bijoux]

My take away here is that BS is saner than both Lance and Thea combined. No, that's not you, you're right. And since Dinah I guess can't scream when she's trapped under a bean, why didn't she take the opportunity to kill her as well? I'm off the newbies can just leave train, I'm perfectly okay with all three of them biting the bullet. They're there with OTA (and Alena, yay, can she stay on the team?) and it feels like they're on a completely different show.

Lastly, I guess for the first time I saw what romance is ruining my show feels like. All the face sucking between Dinah and Vince was exhausting. She also looked completely stoned before the first one. I have no idea what that was about.

[Midnight Lullaby]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I am extremely torn. I am really proud of how much Oliver has grown and matured over the years, and how he has become a real hero instead of the unstable killing machine we met in season 1. On the other hand...season 1 or 2 Oliver would have shot an Arrow into Rene after his first screw up...

Or at least punch him, LOL. I suggest the writers try it as a last resort to get us to sympathize with the newbies.

[Midnight Lullaby]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I am extremely torn. I am really proud of how much Oliver has grown and matured over the years, and how he has become a real hero instead of the unstable killing machine we met in season 1. On the other hand...season 1 or 2 Oliver would have shot an Arrow into Rene after his first screw up...

Or at least punch him, LOL. I suggest the writers try it as a last resort to get us to sympathize with the newbies.

[UNOSEZ]

Now ppl are complaining that the newbies didn't know it was a trap... I'm sorry weren't diggle and ollie right there as well.. Did Oliver bring that up in a scene I missed??..  And I see hypotheticals that if Oliver was kidnapped he wouldn't have needed saving like Vince.. Well ollie is the star so I don't see how that's a fair comparison... I do think the writers made an error in not having nta alert ota abt Vince before the Alley meet-up they still coulda had it play out the way it did with ollie walking Vince to the side for that heart to heart so not sure what the point of that was unless it was just to make the noobs look bad.. If so good job... Again rene was insufferable and even I'm not sure why he's sooo angry.. I get being a little upset that digg and felicity aren't at least kinda seeing why he did what he's done.. But I mean Come on you agreed to testify against Ollie... But I don't feel the same disdain for Curtis and dinah.. And the complaints abt splitting the team could go both ways.. I mean diggle abd ollie didn't get the bomb.. Which is just shuttled from place to place.. There was no warning that James was ready to deploy.. But fine it's a big ass bomb..  But what if the full team had went to save Vince.. He woulda been alive and the woulda caught cayden James abd dark laurel.   I mean that's just as feasible as if they all went after the bomb and then stopped it from moving.. Of course Vince still dies and cayden and Dark Laurel escape anyway.. So the show split the diff and had everyone fail.. I assume to point out that they need to work together better I dunno.. I know the newbs are hated.. I just think some of their(dinah and Curtis)  reactions make sense in universe.. You can still hate them but they don't seem inconsistent to me.. If anything I think Curtis has grown a lil still too many side quips.. But that's always been him and since the break he's toned it down a lil dinah unfortunately is about to devolve into the rampage monster she was when the team found her.. But rage has a way if turning ppl wacky

[insomniadreams88]

Rewatch observations:

How long did Dinah and Vince know each other? I always thought they had a longer history than these FBs showed. Didn't Dinah act like that last season or am I not remembering correctly? 

The two teams split the city. Curtis and Rene plan to meet Vince in OTA's section. Huh? And I hate Curtis' "We were going to tell you guys...eventually" even more the second time.

I swear the newbies keep looking for reasons to hate on OTA. "Is Felicity bugging us again?" (611) "Did Oliver push you do to this?" (612)

Felicity saves Vince and does she even get a "thank you"? Someone tell me how Dinah thought Vince would get himself out of that situation at that very moment. Knock Cayden out and run?

Lance to BS: "I see the same warmth, kindness, the love, and I see a hero." Hey, Lance, tell that to everyone she's killed. 

Rene telling Oliver to "figure out a way" to find the bomb without them ... Ugh. The problem is that sometimes, a line sounds better or at least not as bad the second time around. The newbies' lines somehow end up sounding even worse. 

[tennisgurl]

6 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Last season they ditched Ragman, the most interesting of the newbies.  Now they kill off Vigilante, who was actually a sympathetic and interesting character.  In their place we have Curtis (who has turned into a passive aggressive dick), Rene (the guy who SOLD OUT OLIVER and been reduced to snidely calling everyone Hoss), and Dinah (who hid her renewed relationship with Vigilante even though she loves to talk about trust).  I'd sure like to know what the plan is here.

I swear, it feels like they're trolling us at this point. "Hey audience, you like this cool character with magic cloth who is sympathetic and interesting? Well, now he`s gone! Hey audience, you like this cool badass character who has potential for a decent redemption arc and has a sympathetic backstory? Well, now he is all kinds of dead! But you guys DO get a bitter idiot who sucks at pretty much everything, a belligerent asshole who betrays his friends then acts like HE was the victim, and a judgmental chick with two facial expressions! Your welcome!" 

[Midnight Lullaby]

14 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

You can still hate them but they don't seem inconsistent to me.. If anything I think Curtis has grown a lil still too many side quips.. But that's always been him and since the break he's toned it down a lil dinah unfortunately is about to devolve into the rampage monster she was when the team found her.. But rage has a way if turning ppl wacky

I can only speak for myself and say it’s not their actions alone but their attitude in addition to that. I find them hypocritical and self absorbed so when they do something questionable I find it more annoying because I think they suck as people. If they didn’t I would say “I didn’t like this but..”. For example when Curtis talks about being single I find it annoying because 1- he begged to join the team, lost his husband because he lied to him and when the team split he acted like it was the team’s fault 2- it’s a show where people are in constant danger so who cares about his love life? It’s such a superficial thing that having him mention it every episode makes him look superficial.

I understand Dinah wanting to save her boyfriend but to make me feel sympathy for her they could have had her tell Curtis and Rene to stay behind to save them city, making me think she is the hero that she is supposed to be, that she is selfless and not blame Oliver for what happened because that’s just being a asshole. She is lucky Oliver and Diggle didn’t accidentally kill him before they thought to inform them he wasn’t really on CJ’s side tbh.

I was often annoyed with Oliver’s actions in the past but he has always cared about saving the city and used to always blame himself, even for things that weren’t his fault, and those are two things that balanced the dumb things he did.

Rene, Curtis and Dinah don’t seem to give a shit about the city (or they would have put aside their hurt feelings when Oliver apologized to work together for the good of the city and would have cared about the bomb this episode but the only reaction was “so Vince died for nothing??”), act like they do OTA a favor when they work together to stop the bad guys and are hypocrites because they get mad when they don’t get informed about something after ten seconds but conveniently forgot to tell OTA the crazy guy who tried to kill them last year isn’t all that bad.

I’m supposed to think these three are heroes and that’s another thing that annoys me. They aren’t even polite or compassionate that would qualify them at least as people with really good qualities..they are too focused on themselves for that. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Midnight Lullaby

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Soulfire said:

Why is the 2nd gif the cutest thing ever? Sometimes I'm all heart eyes for her. I'm basically Oliver. ?

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Rene, Curtis and Dinah don’t seem to give a shit about the city (or they would have put aside their hurt feelings when Oliver apologized to work together for the good of the city and would have cared about the bomb this episode but the only reaction was “so Vince died for nothing??”), act like they do OTA a favor when they work together to stop the bad guys and are hypocrites because they get mad when they don’t get informed about something after ten seconds but conveniently forgot to tell OTA the crazy guy who tried to kill them last year isn’t all that bad.

And this is the biggest fault in writing them in my eyes. Sure, I'm on OTA's side and hate that Team THAT are being unmitigated assholes to them for no reason, but if that had been balanced with them actually being shown to care about the city, I might be able to see them all reaching middle ground. As it stands, we have them doing jack shit for five weeks and the whole of 510, then paying lip service to still protecting the city, and capped off with Rene and Curtis trodding off after Dinah to save one dude and actually giving OTA lip about handling the bomb which was threatening the entire city! A city where Rene's daughter still lives, I assume.

https://media.giphy.com/media/5aLrlDiJPMPFS/giphy.gif

[bijoux]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I totally knew Anatoly wasn't really torturing Vince and those screams were a set up. I hate that he and Oliver are no longer friends. I miss Anatoly's smiles and laughs and "My first favorite American!" to Oliver.

But his okey dokey was a thing of beauty. One of my favorite moments in the episode.

[GHScorpiosRule]

31 minutes ago, bijoux said:

But his okey dokey was a thing of beauty. One of my favorite moments in the episode.

DEFINITELY! That gave me hope. I know, I know, it's probably too late, but I just love Anatoly and me no likey that he and Oliver are now enemies.

[bijoux]

17 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Then again, it might be funny if we wind up with a fourth Black Canary next season.

Take that back.

13 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I truly do not care enough about this episode to make comments about it besides an Olicity comment.

Did you guys notice, after Oliver suggested Aruba for a honeymoon and Felicity goes "Aruba, Ooh", Oliver then has the most blissed out look as he goes "Mmm hmm", like he is flashbacking to his memories of Dessert in Aruba . I WANT THOSE FLASHBACKS!!!!! GIVE US THOSE FLASHBACKS!!!!!!!!

They haven't been yet. That's their plan for post-Cayden.

33 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

DEFINITELY! That gave me hope. I know, I know, it's probably too late, but I just love Anatoly and me no likey that he and Oliver are now enemies.

Honestly, I don't think Anatoli's heart is in this anymore. It reads to me as if he acted when his split with Oliver was fresh, and now he's cooled off and is just playing along because he'd feel like a putz if he admitted he wanted to abandon this alliance. Plus, he may be scared of Cayden.

You know, watching the episode I realized I have no idea when Cayden's identity became public knowledge. Yet it certainly seemed like it wasn't news by the way the anchorwoman talked about him.

[SmallScreenDiva]

17 minutes ago, bijoux said:

You know, watching the episode I realized I have no idea when Cayden's identity became public knowledge. Yet it certainly seemed like it wasn't news by the way the anchorwoman talked about him.

Last week, when Oliver was telling people in a televised news conference to go to the safe zones. He told the city Cayden James was pretty much holding it hostage.

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

 

 

They haven't been yet. That's their plan for post-Cayden.

 

I thought they have been there in the past. In the Slade episode she said to Oliver something along the lines of "Don't say Aruba that's our thing". 

I took it to mean they've been and had a rolling good time in the past. 

[WindofChange]

This is HILARIOUS! And bless you Oliver Queen for your character development

http://captainheroism.tumblr.com/post/170430313319/what-do-you-mean-thats-not-what-he-said-based

[lemotomato]

You know what? They teased Bali in season 4, and we know Olicity never made it there. They damn well better give us Aruba this time around. 

[Mellowyellow]

I feel like I'm a terrible person for saying this but I'd love to see EBR in a bikini if they go to Aruba ?

[Featherhat]

14 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

You know what? They teased Bali in season 4, and we know Olicity never made it there. They damn well better give us Aruba this time around. 

Sand then they get there and find out it's also the Legend's thing and they are therefore sharing a beach with two of their exes and Mick Rory. Does MG not know other Caribbean islands exist?

[SmallScreenDiva]

52 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I feel like I'm a terrible person for saying this but I'd love to see EBR in a bikini if they go to Aruba ?

I need this in my life. Are there any beaches in Vancouver that can masquerade as Aruba? :)

[OtterMommy]

The mod team does review all reported posts, and may decide against action.  Differing opinions will happen.  If you have an issue with that or cannot engage in polite disagreement with a specific individual, the ignore feature is your friend.

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, WindofChange said:

This is HILARIOUS! And bless you Oliver Queen for your character development

http://captainheroism.tumblr.com/post/170430313319/what-do-you-mean-thats-not-what-he-said-based

LMAO! What was his actual line?

Just now, OtterMommy said:

The mod team does review all reported posts, and may decide against action.  Differing opinions will happen.  If you have an issue with that or cannot engage in polite disagreement with a specific individual, the ignore feature is your friend

What happened?

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, bijoux said:

And this is the biggest fault in writing them in my eyes. Sure, I'm on OTA's side and hate that Team THAT are being unmitigated assholes to them for no reason, but if that had been balanced with them actually being shown to care about the city, I might be able to see them all reaching middle ground. As it stands, we have them doing jack shit for five weeks and the whole of 510, then paying lip service to still protecting the city, and capped off with Rene and Curtis trodding off after Dinah to save one dude and actually giving OTA lip about handling the bomb which was threatening the entire city! A city where Rene's daughter still lives, I assume.

https://media.giphy.com/media/5aLrlDiJPMPFS/giphy.gif

2

Maybe she's in the safe Argus shelter with Willaim so Rene gives no fucks.  

[Hiveminder]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

Honestly, I don't think Anatoli's heart is in this anymore. It reads to me as if he acted when his split with Oliver was fresh, and now he's cooled off and is just playing along because he'd feel like a putz if he admitted he wanted to abandon this alliance. Plus, he may be scared of Cayden.

 

I’m not really getting that read. He went after Oliver in the beginning of the season, and that was over five months after Oliver’s ‘betrayal’. I’d think he would have cooled off by then if he was going to cool off. 

[KenyaJ]

2 hours ago, lemotomato said:

You know what? They teased Bali in season 4, and we know Olicity never made it there. They damn well better give us Aruba this time around. 

They actually did go to Bali. That's where they were when Felicity told Oliver there was no email while she was secretly helping Team Arrow(less) during their summer of love. I guess they must have made some, er, special memories, which is why it came up again in 410.

[catrox14]

I think William is trying to impress Felicity by being all heroic. That's the only reason I can see for him going there TBH

[lemotomato]

41 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

They actually did go to Bali. That's where they were when Felicity told Oliver there was no email while she was secretly helping Team Arrow(less) during their summer of love. I guess they must have made some, er, special memories, which is why it came up again in 410.

Oh, I know, but they never made it back there after talking about it in 410. 

[Mellowyellow]

37 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Oh, I know, but they never made it back there after talking about it in 410. 

So are we putting out vibes for a S3 ending but with Felicity in a bikini and Oliver shirtless on a beach in Aruba?????

*ponders more superstitious lunar new year fics she could write*

Edited February 3, 2018 by Mellowyellow

[jay741982]

23 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

Oliver, who by all rights should never want to step foot on an island again, sure loves taking Felicity to them. ??

I bet it's because bikinis are involved. ?

ETA: This hugging/rocking thing is really working for me. Keep up the casual touching SA and EBR!

ETA2: Why has the US, once again, forsaken Starling City? An entire city is being held hostage, and the response is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯?

LOL it's gotta be because Bikinis are involved lol look at her!!??

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

So are we putting out vibes for a S3 ending but with Felicity in a bikini and Oliver shirtless on a beach in Aruba?????

*ponders more superstitious lunar new year fics she could write*

Yes let's put out those vibes lol

[jay741982]

5 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I feel like I'm a terrible person for saying this but I'd love to see EBR in a bikini if they go to Aruba ?

If you're terrible THAN SO AM I. LOL

[statsgirl]

13 hours ago, bijoux said:

My take away here is that BS is saner than both Lance and Thea combined. No, that's not you, you're right. And since Dinah I guess can't scream when she's trapped under a bean, why didn't she take the opportunity to kill her as well?

For the  same reason that Barry let the  Reverse Flash go in the crossover  -- plot contrivance .

 

12 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

The two teams split the city. Curtis and Rene plan to meet Vince in OTA's section. Huh? And I hate Curtis' "We were going to tell you guys...eventually" even more the second time.

I swear the newbies keep looking for reasons to hate on OTA. "Is Felicity bugging us again?" (611) "Did Oliver push you do to this?" (612)

Rene telling Oliver to "figure out a way" to find the bomb without them ... Ugh.

NoTA seem to have forgotten the point of all this which is to save the city. They're like children who only see rebelling against mommy and daddy,  not the bigger picture.

If Rene and Curtis had remembered the reason for wanted to suit up and joined Oliver and Diggle then maybe Vince wouldn't have died in vain.

[Jacks-Son]

On 2/1/2018 at 7:07 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

You're only saying that because BS has no story and almost no screentime. Easy to "like" her when she's barely there. ?

Honestly they're going about the Noobs all wrong. Blaming OTA for every little slight, pretending like they did nothing wrong and acting like petulant children. I hope they all go away.

Lance is an idiot but, at least they told him. I fully expected they'd keep him in the dark about BS killing Vince...actually executing is the correct term.

Speaking of BS, oh look at that redemption she hesitated...of course she's a meta that can blow people into walls and James was standing right next to her. Whatever show.

Not enough OTA or really anything interesting for me, the Flashbacks were dull. Sadly I really ended up liking Vince, he's better than the Noobs.  Too bad they didn't kill of Dinah, Rene and Curtis and keep Vince/Alena.

I was never against the newbies per se, Curtis' incessant talking was irritating and Rene was a considerable jerk,(Hoss)  and I tolerated Dinah because I'm a shallow male who bases his TV characters on a combination of a women's behavior and their looks. Dinah is fine as Hell, so I kind of made allowances. Like I said, shallow. This IS TV so I can be a sexist asshole. As I said, the newbies were just there. HOWEVER, or as Delenn said in "Babylon 5", "But..but...but", THE FUCKING WHINING IS KILLING ME!!!  STFU already.  The constant comments, lame quips, & tones of being offended because Oliver suspected one of you of turning on him is just too much.  Does Dinah not see that Felicity simply mentioned that she was seen with the Vigilante and later Vince was seen with Cayden James and minutes later she was up in Vince's face calling his behavior a betrayal. She can see that, yet can't see Oliver simply calling her out on the same, exact thing. Guilt by Association. Rene, at least, has a leg to stand on because the FBI agent, whom we haven't seen since, backed him into a corner. I really don't see Curtis' problem as it was never deeply delved into beyond, "I lost my husband because of OTA". No, you didn't. You lost your husband because you LIED to him and was doing something YOU wanted to do. No one forced you. You could have left at anytime, but you didn't. Why blame others? 

I like Michael Emerson, ("Lost", "Person of Interest"), David Nykl, ("Stargate Atlantis"), & Kirk Acevedo, ("Fringe") but their characters need to die. I understand what Cayden James' motivation is, but I don't understand what drives the others. I don't mind Katie Cassidy as BS, but I really don't know what her motives are, so her character is only conflicted in the current run.  Is she evil; is she a psychopath, it was never fully explained. It makes it seem like everyone from Earth-2 is just crazy. I also don't know what Anatoly's problems are besides he wants money and he is an outcast from the "Bratva" (Sp?)

"Arrow" seems like an arrow with warped fletching.  The arrows are basically fine, but can't shoot straight. I suspect the writers have kind of painted themselves into a corner.

[tv echo]

14 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I thought they have been there in the past. In the Slade episode she said to Oliver something along the lines of "Don't say Aruba that's our thing". 

I took it to mean they've been and had a rolling good time in the past. 

It's unclear whether Oliver & Felicity have already been to Aruba, or whether they've just always talked about going there (meaning, Felicity didn't want Oliver to go there first with Slade)... 

From 208:
Felicity: "Why couldn't you have been marooned on Aruba?"

From 605:
Felicity: "Well, now we have metas crashing bachelorette parties, so - wow. Slade invited you on a romantic getaway?"
Oliver: "Something like that."
Felicity: "Where? Don't say Aruba. That's our spot."
Oliver: "Kasnia."

From 612:
Felicity: "We are going on a honeymoon, right?"
Oliver: "Aruba."
Felicity: "Aruba. Ooh."

13 hours ago, lemotomato said:

You know what? They teased Bali in season 4, and we know Olicity never made it there. They damn well better give us Aruba this time around. 

Oliver & Felicity have been to Bali...

From 401:
Oliver: “What about when you missed our boat - missed in Positano?”
Felicity: “Okay, that one was a little fib.”
Oliver: “Bali?”
Felicity: “Umm.”
Oliver: “Felicity, you said there wasn't even email in Bali.”
Felicity: “I know! But we both know I'm just that good.”

12 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

LMAO! What was his actual line?

From 612:
Dinah: "You are really bad at apologies."
Oliver: "I'm not here to apologize."
Dinah: "Of course you're not."
Oliver: "I'm here to explain that this wasn't all for nothing. Felicity's been going through the data that Vince pulled out, and for the first time, Dinah, for the first time, we have some viable options."
Dinah: "Viable options? You know, I used to tell Vince his way of seeking justice wasn't viable. I convinced him to change just how you convinced me, but you know what, Oliver? Vince was right. The only way to bring justice to this city is with a bullet."

Edited February 3, 2018 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

Bless you and your ability to pull information @tv echo!!!!!

[johntfs]

On 2/1/2018 at 9:09 PM, calliope1975 said:

I don't believe for one second that Cayden James, who ARGUS had to keep in an actual metal box because of his capabilities, who set up Helix, and who has taken the city hostage electronically wouldn't verify that the footage he saw was real. 

I've only seen part of the episode but my take is that the footage is real.  It's just that Oliver knows it couldn't have been him because he was in Hub City at the time the murder occurred, but Cayden James does not know that and presumably wouldn't just take Oliver's word on it.

[Chyromaniac]

In general I’m on OTA’s side in the split, and I agree with Ollie that the bomb should have been the top priority this week. However, I do feel that “he can just heal himself later” is a pretty callous reason to put off rescuing an ally (which, he’s a psycho who’s been trying to kill them for a year now - but okay writers...) who they know is being tortured. He should have at least pointed out that this was obviously a trap - and that if the bomb goes off everyone dies, including Vince.

So, I could almost sympathize with Dinah rushing off to save Vince - but ultimately it still feels like the kind of decision I’d expect from a petulant middle schooler. “You don’t understand - he’s my boyfriend!” And, the writers turn Ollie into the “stern dad” in the scene to try and make it work.  I don’t get it - it’s like they really think the audience for these shows (because I know I’ve written something similar on a Supergirl thread too) are angsty 13 year olds.  Oh no... I just had a terrible thought - am I actually the weirdo outlier fan for expecting these characters to behave like sensible adults???

Edited February 3, 2018 by Chyromaniac

[apinknightmare]

16 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I've only seen part of the episode but my take is that the footage is real.  It's just that Oliver knows it couldn't have been him because he was in Hub City at the time the murder occurred, but Cayden James does not know that and presumably wouldn't just take Oliver's word on it.

It’s real footage that’s been doctored together to show Oliver’s face - which seems like something a computer super genius would check out.

[Delphi]

1 hour ago, Chyromaniac said:

In general I’m on OTA’s side in the split, and I agree with Ollie that the bomb should have been the top priority this week. However, I do feel that “he can just heal himself later” is a pretty callous reason to put off rescuing an ally (which, he’s a psycho who’s been trying to kill them for a year now - but okay writers...) who they know is being tortured. He should have at least pointed out that this was obviously a trap - and that if the bomb goes off everyone dies, including Vince.

 

Especially the bolded part.   Like, sure ?  Dinah is new but how the fuck can she can expect anyone to prioritize Vince.   He's nearly killed Oliver,  Thea (who for all he knew was simply a younger sibling and city employee) and half the team.   Go take that Canary Whine somewhere else. 

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

It’s real footage that’s been doctored together to show Oliver’s face - which seems like something a computer super genius would check out.

That was a part I didn't see.  That said, presumably Cayden's son was killed with an arrow that was apparently shot from a bow carried by a dude known for previously killing a bunch of people with arrows.  I can understand why "I'mma destroy the Bow'n'Arrow mothafucka what kilt mah baby boy!" would take priority over "I must carefully examine the video for evidence that it was manipulated with a view toward driving me into a rash, emotion-fueled decision." for Cayden James.

[statsgirl]

I can understand that James would want to destroy Oliver. But that doesn't translate into destroying the whole city with a bomb. Presumably he has friends who live there if not relatives. And  does he really want to kill his son's friends as a tribute to Owen?

4 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

In general I’m on OTA’s side in the split, and I agree with Ollie that the bomb should have been the top priority this week. However, I do feel that “he can just heal himself later” is a pretty callous reason to put off rescuing an ally (which, he’s a psycho who’s been trying to kill them for a year now - but okay writers...) who they know is being tortured. He should have at least pointed out that this was obviously a trap - and that if the bomb goes off everyone dies, including Vince.

 

Dinah was distraught but Rene and Curtis should have realized that if the bomb goes off, Vince' s decision to infiltrate and his torture would have been in vain. Do they think Oliver didn't need them? Maybe they're just playing at being vigilantes.

[TwistedandBored]

This was really a weird episode for me. There was just too many things that didn't make sense. 

Team Not Arrow are just the worst. I hope something can be done about them and soon. Dinah who thinks she is tough but that bitch couldn't even use the one superpower she has to save the man she supposedly loves. Curtis who is just there for the most part. And, Rene always making side comments but Oliver/OTA continue to pay him dust. Like no reaction what so ever. 

I think OTA are at the point where they are over NTA's childish behaviours and are just focused on saving the city. I can't wait for Roy to come back. 

Also, Lance is really scaring me. I think he might have substituted one addiction for another. I know he is grieving for his daughter but I really hope someone just makes him snap out of it.  I wouldn't have minded if he wanted to save Alt Laurel since he couldn't save his daughter but he is acting like Alt Laurel is his daughter complete with family pictures.  I hope this story leads to him to realize the two Laurels are two different people. He is actually making offended on dead Laurel's behalf which is weird. 

 

Anyways, I really love Olicity and seeing Alena back. 

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

That was a part I didn't see.  That said, presumably Cayden's son was killed with an arrow that was apparently shot from a bow carried by a dude known for previously killing a bunch of people with arrows.  I can understand why "I'mma destroy the Bow'n'Arrow mothafucka what kilt mah baby boy!" would take priority over "I must carefully examine the video for evidence that it was manipulated with a view toward driving me into a rash, emotion-fueled decision." for Cayden James.

Unless Alena is lying, the video arrived to Cayden on a USB drive sent in a package from Corto Maltese - for a murder that took place in Star City. Any hacker worth his salt (especially one worthy of being locked in an ARGUS black site) would've been suspicious of doing anything with a random USB drive he received in the mail - even if "EVIDENCE OF WHO KILLED YOUR SON" was written all over the envelope. 

[johntfs]

9 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Unless Alena is lying, the video arrived to Cayden on a USB drive sent in a package from Corto Maltese - for a murder that took place in Star City. Any hacker worth his salt (especially one worthy of being locked in an ARGUS black site) would've been suspicious of doing anything with a random USB drive he received in the mail - even if "EVIDENCE OF WHO KILLED YOUR SON" was written all over the envelope. 

He probably was suspicious.  He probably did check it out - or asked somebody he (wrongly?) trusted to check it out.  Whatever happened, either James was too emotionally compromised by what he saw on the drive to detect that it was manipulated or the person he asked was either not as good at this as Felicity (easily possible) or was the person who created the doctored evidence to begin with.

Either way, James accepts that the video is true.  At this point figure the next move would be for Felicity, not Oliver, to get into contact with James and show him a side-by-side comparison of the video where "Oliver" murders his son and the one that was leaked earlier.  James might be emotionally compromised, but he isn't stupid.  He should be able to draw the conclusion that he and Oliver have a common enemy - one who was willing to murder Cayden James' son to trick Cayden into going after the Green Arrow.