S19.E11: Flight Risk

[Jaded]

Quote

When an airline pilot accuses her captain of sexual assault, Barba convenes a grand jury to determine their employer's complicity in the crime. Meanwhile, Fin takes steps to ensure Benson is protected at work.

[dttruman]

How will Benson crack this case or give one of her motivational speeches to the victim, when she is being guarded at work and probably at home?

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, dttruman said:

How will Benson crack this case or give one of her motivational speeches to the victim, when she is being guarded at work and probably at home?

Just in case this isn't a rhetorical question: FaceTime or Skype.

[Xeliou66]

Already dreading seeing Benson get all preachy again tonight, which I’m sure she will given what I’ve seen of the promos, we will get a ton of MH preaching and Barba acting as her little bitch who’s there to follow St Olivia’s commands and make her feel better. At least we get Chief Dodds in this one, he adds a nice perspective and at least tries to keep Benson in check and isn’t afraid to criticize her while just about everyone else leans over to lick her asshole. 

I’m not expecting much from this episode, but sometimes episodes that I expect to be weak are good and vice versa, this show is unpredictable. 

[HunterHunted]

Rafael Barba is not the second coming of Jack McCoy. This grand jury was to indict who? For what? What crime was Barba trying to say that the company is guilty of??? Stealing dignity is not grand larceny! This is a civil cause of action! This is a class action. Who the fuck did Barba want to go to jail in this grand larceny trial? Of course it will be dismissed because it's bullshit and nonsense.

Liv is the only one who can do this job? Shut up show.

[dttruman]

Well they solved this case (conveniently) in record time and then had time to do a self-serving grand jury inquiry into how all women should feel subjugated whether they are or not. I think all the females in that grand jury came out of that feeling paranoid against every male. This reminds me of the episode from L & O, where McCoy decided to take the gun manufacturers to court and hold them responsible for all the gun violence. I just wonder how many men that work in women's fashion think that it's their gender that is keeping them from getting promotions.

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

At least we get Chief Dodds in this one, he adds a nice perspective and at least tries to keep Benson in check and isn’t afraid to criticize her while just about everyone else leans over to lick her asshole. 

I got a feeling this maybe be a red herring and Dodds turns out to be a bad guy. He will become Benson's new nemesis because he holds her responsible for his son's death.

[balmz]

mixed on the episode, 

 

i get why she was upset at the pilot who raped her but endangering the people who are just passengers is wrong, i kinda had to agree with the defense saying she could have left

 

nice to see barba work on his own for a change, that being said, i was surprised he didn't try to hold the company accountable for the rapes and covering it up, it would have made more sense if he wanted to prosecute the people who knew the pilot was was a rapist and covered it up, he could even say that them covering it up makes them responsible for the second rape victim's rape because by covering it up they abetted him

[wknt3]

The Good:
No Noah!
Barba. Usually I would write Barba, but there was just enough Pod Barba sneaking in there that I can't add the exclamation point in good conscience. He got some good dialogue (with the exception of his s[eech about how sexism should be a crime), seemed to be making the legal decisions, and was just acting like the savvy ambitious lawyer that became a fan favorite. Take out that speech, move the bar scene to his office, and a couple other minor tweaks, and this would be 100% kickass Barba. But I'll happily take 80%.
The legal side in general was pretty good. Lots of solid material with room to breathe. It's nice that the scripts this year seem to be written by someone who has some familiarity with the legal system or at least has watched Law & Order before.
Rollins. Kelli Giddish did a really good job this week and it's nice to see them giving her some scenes showing empathy with victims and witnesses this year.
Fin. No exceptional snark, but some good dramatic material and some solid dark humor.

The Bad:
Without Benoah we get Liv in the field doing detective work. When we were supposed to see that CEO was a fake feminist because he got her rank wrong my sympathies were with him. When you are doing detective duties it's easy to get confused Liv! This is the sort of high profile case that it makes sense for her to be handling personally, but they could have given Carisi something to do, and let Liv handled the victim interviews, airport, etc. without us forgetting that it's Benson's show.
The chunks of decaying equine flesh spraying in the air as the truncheon strikes the carcass again and again. I get this is timely, but you did the whole consent and abuse of power issue about 18 times last season. Not nearly as well, but it's played out. You need to avoid that territory this year,
The NBC promo monkeys ruin the big surprise at the end! I was pissed that they seemed to have cut another non-Benson plot until Dodds showed up and had his big confrontation and while I had my own issues with some of the content of their discussion (see below) it would at least have been an effective twist if I hadn't been waiting for it the whole episode. Why couldn't they just have said "Barba pushes the legal envelope to attempt to obtain justice" or something like that???
"Liv is the only one who can do this job"? Really? Really?? Really??? FFS show these are the last two characters who should ever be saying that. Fin has served under other COs who did just fine and has been around. Dodds has other boroughs and has been around too. Perhaps they need someone to remind them that Benson isn't Jesus? I know Mariska and the writers do.

Overall while last week was a really good premise with mixed results due to the execution, especially the time spent on Benoah, this was a tired premise with mixed results due the to execution. especially the minimal time spent on Liv's personal life. I said a couple weeks ago that it may be unfair to hold last season against shows from this season, but they spent so much time on a single issue, even if they were ahead of the curve a bit and it's all over the headlines this season, that they really need to go in a completely different direction this season. The writing is so much better that I might be able to be interested again in a couple months, but for now they need to do something completely different. Including never having other characters tell us what a special snowflake St. Benson is.

[Gigi43]

"Only Liv could do the job?" Um, Cragen fucking did, for much longer, and much better. Finn probably could too but he doesn't  want to. 

 

Sorry but the episode  lost me with Rollins, Finn, and Carisi watching news of the plane coverage in the beginning.  they weren't coworkers talking, that was characters being assigned pointed of view of a hot topic (Rollins talking about Banglor, Carisi immediately making a Fox news quip.)  It's was the airline version  of No Surrender to me.

 

What the hell was Barba doing with that grand jury? I know he said  grand larceny but what was that based on?  I really  have no idea.

 

Were they trying set up a poor Liv woman cop parallel?  Because hell no. There's a case to be made that it's time for her to put her to go. Wasn't  fond of Finns comment to "cut" Dodds. His son died because of a mistake Liv made but he's the bad  guy for doing his job?

 

Kinda weird, they kept mentioning  "Optimum air" but there was an "Optimum  online /cable" commercial  where a hotel maid takes a picture of Cristiano Ronaldo in his underwear locked out of his room and posts it online where people (almost all women ) comment on how hot he is, he sees it's made the news and smiles. Since I was in SVU mode I thought maybe there would be a special part 2 where Mariska does a PSA that hotel maids should treat good looking men with respect  (yeah right, a woman wouldn't  intend disrespect...)

Edited January 18, 2018 by Gigi43

[ForeverAlone]

Generally speaking, I liked this episode. The only thing that made me really groan was when Rafael wanted the grand jury to return an indictment of grand larceny against Optimum Airlines. I had no issue with him convening a grand jury to determine institutional culpability (which he did to great effect in season's 14 "Girl Dishonored"). What I had an issue with was the crime he was alleging. That was just too unbelievable, along with his speech to the grand jury at the end. I give him a bit of a pass, because he knew that was a fool's errand, and he knew the score, but was trying to make a point anyway. At least he made his own decision to pursue justice, and wasn't pushed into it by Olivia.  So based on that, it didn't feel AS ridiculous as the shit show that was "Imposter". But everything up to that point was a reasonably decent episode. 

I was glad that there was a bit more nuance to Tara's story, at least in the fact that she was going to have to do two years in a federal prison for her incredibly reckless behavior. I was afraid that she would be let off scot free after the rape allegation, and that, plus the whole terrorism angle, brought back bad memories of "Terrorized" from last season. So thankfully that part wasn't ignored, because I know if I was a passenger on that flight, I wouldn't have given her a pass (even though I wouldn't think the pilot was a hero after finding out he raped Tara). I did have a bit of side eye at the reasoning that she flew with Logan, because she needed to do her job, but then she fell apart at the end, and basically went rogue. There is no GOOD excuse for that sort of unprofessional behavior. But I guess the show wanted to bring in that terrorism angle to the story. I did have to giggle at how quickly Rafael was able to secure Logan's guilty plea, but they needed some time for the grand jury angle. 

This episode also had the right amount of Olivia, meaning she wasn't front and center, and the episode wasn't all about her personal drama. Though I did wonder what was up between Fin and Dodds at the end. I guess the memo Fin was referring to was about Dodds interviewing possible replacements, but he was within his rights to do so, in my opinion. 

[JyDanzig]

I thought this one was a bit of a mess, honestly.

First, the setup was a huge problem -- the co-pilots actions were just so extreme!  She could have easily killed 135 innocent people!  I had zero sympathy for her after that.  I wish they had done a less amped-up version, something without so many people so seriously imperiled.

And once you're doing "their crime is excused because they were earlier victim of another crime", where does that end?  You could trace that back endlessly.  Her rapist was just acting out his own trauma from a time he was violently assaulted 10 years ago.  But that guy only became a criminal because he was molested.  etc etc etc.

Also, this is another story they've so recently done badly!  Wasn't this last years premiere, a female terrorist helps with a mass shooting and all Benson cares about is that she was abused?  Like, yes, we get it, sexual abuse is a very serious issue, but it's a little weird how pushy this show is becoming with the idea that sexual abuse is ALWAYS THE MOST SERIOUS ISSUE.  It doesn't demean rape to hear "a rape victim committed a mass shooting in Central Park" and first be concerned about the mass shooting part.  Benson also comes off kind of dumb in these eps, in that she can't even seem to grasp why everyone else doesn't care about the rape and only the rape.

It also felt like they didn't treat the fact that he was A NATIONAL HERO as a serious enough problem for our characters building a case against him.  Any obstacles they encounter are so easily overcome.  I just want this show to pick a lane: you can have these hyper-dramatic and exaggerated setups, OR you can have these easy beat-to-beat plots.  Either one can be a satisfying procedural.  BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE THEM BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.  They work against each other!  Pick a lane!

And, somehow this is building towards indicting a company for grand larceny for stealing their employees dignity?  That's a story that should be on 30 Rock, not Law & Order.

Edited January 18, 2018 by JyDanzig

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

The only thing that made me really groan was when Rafael wanted the grand jury to return an indictment of grand larceny against Optimum Airlines

If I didn't have to be at work in 5 hours and wasn't on a version 1 iPad Mini, I'd illustrate this quote from your post with Barba's face PhotoShopped under the bonnet of Carrie Nation with an axe. IDK. I think the show was trying to demonstrate that while a woman should head SVU, a man still had to womansplain the situation to a grand jury to make public a legally unwinable point. Or something like that. 

Someone(s) at not-so-Optimum Air should have to do the same jail time for decisions that put a known rape victim in the cockpit with her known rapist (who they promised she wouldn't have to fly with again), thereby endangering the lives of the passengers. And if this was written pre-#MeToo, that probably would have been the part B plot. But I sort of like the ludicrous Grand Larceny of Dignity case, and I can even appreciate the message that it had to be brought forth by Atticus Finch Man.

After seeing Ice-T on Late Night recently, I wonder if he adlibbed the line about cutting Dodds for Liv. Until I came here, I'd forgotten about Young Dodds (hardly ever knew ya) getting killed under (I think?) Olivia's watch.

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Sorry but the episode  lost me with Rollins, Finn, and Carisi watching news of the plane coverage in the beginning.  they weren't coworkers talking, that was characters being assigned pointed of view of a hot topic (Rollins talking about Banglor, Carisi immediately making a Fox news quip.)  It's was the airline version  of No Surrender to me.

 

You are so right! It was all so politically bias. You could tell right off when the Captain mentioned that "a few liberals just found god" when they hit a little turbulence. It doesn't surprise me considering the maker of the show is politically bias, along with the network. When it comes to story telling using social issues or politics, it's O.K. to throw in a "pinch" of this or a "dash" of that . But when you drop in the entire bottle, it ruins a good meal and also a good story.

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

This episode also had the right amount of Olivia, meaning she wasn't front and center, and the episode wasn't all about her personal drama. Though I did wonder what was up between Fin and Dodds at the end. I guess the memo Fin was referring to was about Dodds interviewing possible replacements, but he was within his rights to do so, in my opinion. 

I thought this still had a little too much Benson and not enough Finn. She gave her usual formulated "peptalk" speech to one of the victims. I agree with you concerning the meeting at the end between Finn and Dodds. I am sure that memo is suppose to represent a major conspiracy against Benson that involves higher up members of the police force. I just don't know if that may or may not include Dodds.

[FireGhost]

I'd hate it if they decided to throw William Dodds under the bus and turn him into Mean Guy. We've seen variations of this three times already this season (Sheila, Cassidy, and Langan.)

[EtheltoTillie]

What was in the memo at the end?  Do we have any ideas?

DAs do not make grandstanding summations to the grand jury. That was a ridiculous inaccuracy. 

[Xeliou66]

This episode was about like I expected

I did like that Barba got a lot of screen time, and he wasn’t acting as Benson’s bitch, he was doing his own thing and was the one who had the idea to indict the company. It did remind me of the time McCoy indicted the gun manufacturers for negligence after the mass shooting, it had no chance of sticking but it was done to make a point, and while I was against McCoy when he went after the gun manufacturers, I liked that Barba made the point here about the toxic culture at the airline, something that’s all too common in big corporations, although there is no charge that could stick against anyone there. 

No Noah was nice, and no Benson speech to the victim was nice. However Benson was her on soapbox again all night, immediately attacking anyone who didn’t believe the woman and seemed to be trying to push a feminist agenda instead of investigating the case. This is why Benson isn’t a good leader, and another reason I hated Fin worshipping at the altar of St Benson, because plenty of others could do the job, Cragen did it better for years and Fin would be a more qualified leader than Benson as he doesn’t let his personal bias get in the way of cases. 

Not to start a fight, but since the episode was so political I’m going to say that I was very irritated with the heavy handed messages. Not only was the scene at the first forced and felt like an attempt to just spout different cliched political views, but the part about making the Muslim co pilot who almost crashed the plane into the victim while the white pilot who prevented the crash became the villain. Ridiculous and heavy handed. And I’m also sick of how St Olivia will always find excuses for females (not males though) when they commit a crime, just because something bad happened to them in the past doesn’t make up for what they did in the present and this woman deserved a longer prison sentence than 2 years after terrorizing hundreds of passengers, I had no sympathy for her, she should’ve reported her rape to the police and then quit her job if the rapist wasn’t let go, but instead she used it to advance her career and then freaked out when she came into contact with the rapist again.

Fin and Carisi got nothing in this episode, I’m sick of them getting underused. 

What was in the memo that Fin gave Dodds? I really hope they aren’t going to do a whole plot about the NYPD trying to force Benson out and make Dodds into a villain, but since Dodds is one of the only ones who will question St Olivia and that is the biggest sin in the SVU universe, they will probably make him Benson’s new nemesis. 

And can Barba please have scenes with characters other than Benson? Even when he’s not taking orders from her, he’s still basically fawning over her and it’s nauseating. Can this please stop? 

I agree that the case moved way too fast, and we shouldn’t have skipped straight from arrest to trial, we should’ve had more preparation and the part about trying someone who is considered a hero by many should’ve been a bigger story. The truth is, the sexual harassment storyline and the airline pilot storyline should’ve been 2 different episodes, they both are interesting and it would be better if we had time to explore both stories more.

Nice to see Kressler again, he’s been a defense attorney for ages.

[QueenMab]

Does this show have to end every time with Barba asking Benson to go have drinks or dinner ( because working with her 24/7 isn't enough) and her shutting him down? I'm sick of his constipated grimace like he's smiling through his heartbreak. It's sappy ass and I have officially written him off as a desperately pathetic loser who doesn't know another person, much less a woman in NYC to have drinks, dinner, and sex with. I hope Stone tears him up over this. Now, Benson doesn't tell him what to do, he already knows what would make her happy with cases and goes forward with them accordingly. The whole Grand Jury bs was to please Benson, because other than that, it was a stupid waste of the Court's time and money. Those people get paid you know. And the Uber Left political crap has long since become waaaay obnoxious and tiresome. A character, expressing a political side is fine, if it's balanced by just " middle of the road" good legal sense from others, BUT NOOO....we get hit over the head hard with this and everybody on the show, including an ADA who shouldn't be for serious legal reasons, is totally on board.  And no sympathy..none..for the female " victim". 135 innocent people could have died horribly because of her " freak out". All she showed me is she probably shouldn't be a Pilot if she takes her traumas out on the passengers. Another episode that proves this show is a Primetime Soap Opera. I hope Stone comes in and rips these ass clowns to shreds.

[zxeburk]

This episode was not credibe at all, in the beginning she locks him out of cockpit then captian and airmarshall force the cockpit door open. This is totally not possible as doors are designed not to be able to break down. If they going to do a story on this then at least get it right and show real life not pretend

[illdoc]

Question: What is the dollar value on dignity? In order to charge grand larceny, doesn't there need to be a dollar amount attached? Over X amount is grand, under X amount is petty larceny, right? Now, he could probably charged the company with "rape in the second degree" or something (I think in the McCoy gun manufacturing case, he charged them with murder in the second degree, or manslaughter, or conspiracy to commit murder or something) for covering up the rape.

[Xantar]

12 hours ago, JyDanzig said:

First, the setup was a huge problem -- the co-pilots actions were just so extreme!  She could have easily killed 135 innocent people!  I had zero sympathy for her after that.  I wish they had done a less amped-up version, something without so many people so seriously imperiled.

I actually quit watching at that point because I could tell they were going to turn it into vindication for the co-pilot. If the show is trying to increase awareness of rape culture, it's not going to accomplish that very well by portraying a woman who gets so hysterical that she seizes control of a plane. What? She didn't try to do anything when they were sitting on the runway?

[HunterHunted]

28 minutes ago, illdoc said:

Question: What is the dollar value on dignity? In order to charge grand larceny, doesn't there need to be a dollar amount attached? Over X amount is grand, under X amount is petty larceny, right? Now, he could probably charged the company with "rape in the second degree" or something (I think in the McCoy gun manufacturing case, he charged them with murder in the second degree, or manslaughter, or conspiracy to commit murder or something) for covering up the rape.

This is what I think folks are missing about the comparisons to the Mothership gun case. McCoy had evidence that the manufacturer knew that the gun was easily modifiable and that the manufacturer refused to change the gun to prevent modification because it would result in a 40% decrease in sales. Even then, he still only charged the CEO with reckless endangerment or manslaughter. The point being that he knew the CEO was not the proximate cause for the death, but that the CEO through his company had been wilfully blind to the potential hazards. And still, the judge set aside the verdict immediately after the jury found the CEO guilty. This is a far cry from Barba's grand larceny of dignity nonsense. This is not a thing. There is no monetary value for "dignity." This is basically pain and suffering and why this has no business in a criminal court. Had Barba convened a grand jury for conspiracy, hindering prosecution, or some lower degree of sexual assault against the CEO or head of HR, he might have had a leg to stand. Stealing dignity?????? Pthbppthpt!!!

[Broderbits]

1 hour ago, Xantar said:

If the show is trying to increase awareness of rape culture, it's not going to accomplish that very well by portraying a woman who gets so hysterical that she seizes control of a plane. What? She didn't try to do anything when they were sitting on the runway?

This is an excellent point. The only people I felt sympathy for were the passengers on that plane; the co-pilot had absolutely no business involving them in her problems and putting their lives in danger. She should have listened to her sister and pressed charges when the rape happened, or at the very least gotten herself some counseling if she couldn't bear to leave that job.

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, QueenMab said:

Does this show have to end every time with Barba asking Benson to go have drinks or dinner ( because working with her 24/7 isn't enough) and her shutting him down? I'm sick of his constipated grimace like he's smiling through his heartbreak. It's sappy ass and I have officially written him off as a desperately pathetic loser who doesn't know another person, much less a woman in NYC to have drinks, dinner, and sex with. I hope Stone tears him up over this. Now, Benson doesn't tell him what to do, he already knows what would make her happy with cases and goes forward with them accordingly. The whole Grand Jury bs was to please Benson, because other than that, it was a stupid waste of the Court's time and money. Those people get paid you know. And the Uber Left political crap has long since become waaaay obnoxious and tiresome. A character, expressing a political side is fine, if it's balanced by just " middle of the road" good legal sense from others, BUT NOOO....we get hit over the head hard with this and everybody on the show, including an ADA who shouldn't be for serious legal reasons, is totally on board.  And no sympathy..none..for the female " victim". 135 innocent people could have died horribly because of her " freak out". All she showed me is she probably shouldn't be a Pilot if she takes her traumas out on the passengers. Another episode that proves this show is a Primetime Soap Opera. I hope Stone comes in and rips these ass clowns to shreds.

It’s completely nauseating how Barba is only there to kiss Olivia’s ass. I can’t stand how he’s constantly with her and we never see him in scenes with anyone else, and it’s a complete joke that Barba would spend so much time with Benson, he could do so much better than spend all his time with a bloated bitchy 54 year old who’s a decade older than him, the show wants us to think Benson is a beauty icon but she isn’t. I’ve lost respect for Barba, his whole purpose now seems to be pleasing Olivia, it sickens me how they’ve reduced his character to nothing more than Benson’s puppet. 

I’m beyond sick of the political agenda, the L&O franchise has always dealt with controversial issues but the mothership was always much more subtle and balanced about it, the current SVU episodes have less subtlety than a sledgehammer smashing in your skull and feel very cliched as well. The agenda is blatant and just alienates a lot of the audience, even those that agree with a lot of the political views, people watch the show for entertaining stories, not a political message. I’m sick of the blatant race baiting, over the top SJW agenda of the show. I’m so sick of how when a woman does something wrong Benson will excuse it while if a man is a victim Benson will blame him, it’s extremely hypocritical and blatant misandry. The bitch last night endangered the lives of over 100 people, she deserved a longer prison sentence than 2 years. 

I’m ready for Peter Stone to come on as well, it’s time Barba gets a wake up call that his job isn’t to please Benson and that he’s behaving like a little bitch. I’m hoping the appearance of Peter Stone and Jack McCoy will wake him up, but I’m afraid the show will just have Benson chop their balls off just like she does to every man on the show, because this show just panders to Mariska and her posse of fangirls who want the show to be all Olivia and Noah and everyone else gone. 

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

This is what I think folks are missing about the comparisons to the Mothership gun case. McCoy had evidence that the manufacturer knew that the gun was easily modifiable and that the manufacturer refused to change the gun to prevent modification because it would result in a 40% decrease in sales. Even then, he still only charged the CEO with reckless endangerment or manslaughter. The point being that he knew the CEO was not the proximate cause for the death, but that the CEO through his company had been wilfully blind to the potential hazards. And still, the judge set aside the verdict immediately after the jury found the CEO guilty. This is a far cry from Barba's grand larceny of dignity nonsense. This is not a thing. There is no monetary value for "dignity." This is basically pain and suffering and why this has no business in a criminal court. Had Barba convened a grand jury for conspiracy, hindering prosecution, or some lower degree of sexual assault against the CEO or head of HR, he might have had a leg to stand. Stealing dignity?????? Pthbppthpt!!!

I am surprised something like this didn't happen in that episode of an NFL player assaulting his wife. Barba (with Benson help) convenes a grand jury to determine if  professional athletics (as in the NFL and the NBA) is responsible for creating a more aggressive male that leads to more assaults and rapes.

Edited January 18, 2018 by dttruman

[ChristiKRN]

I don't know if I'm just so weary of how this show has been over the past couple of seasons that I tend to be overly critical of everything, but I hated this episode.  Let me count the ways:

-It used to be good to see Barba heavily featured, but not like this.  Benson did not tell him to convene the grand jury but it had her influence all over it. My beloved Barba is drinking way too much of the Benson KoolAid.  Grand larceny?  Of what?  Do I think the airline is complicit in covering up a crime? Yes, but larceny?  I don't get it.  

-The airline did not want to promote women to pilot status due to being too emotional/unfit to make critical decisions.  For a show that promotes women's rights and overcoming being a victim, they did a huge disservice by proving the airline was right when the female co-pilot took control of the plane and almost crashed it when she learned she was going to be working with her rapist.  I can't imagine how difficult that must have been for her, but she could have handled it in any number of different ways that would have painted a different picture.

-Being a victim of a crime does not give you a free pass to commit a crime.  Unless you are a victim of rape and Benson is on your side. 

-I hope Dodds Sr takes Benson down at this rate.  I don't think he got over blaming her for his son's death.  I'm probably overreaching here, but I can see the end of the show coming with Benson being demoted/fired.  I think Dodds is very aware of what happened with Sheila and I would bet he is keeping track of every mistake she has been making for some time.  Lying in wait...

[mtlchick]

Well that was...a mess.  It took me a moment to place the actress, but she was on Quantico for the first 2 seasons.  Which made me wonder why she did this role.  

Whatever her problems were with the pilot as valid as they were, who would really put the lives of 135 people at stake?  She had every option to leave.  Better to lose rank and get a demotion instead of the alternative. 

42 minutes ago, ChristiKRN said:

I hope Dodds Sr takes Benson down at this rate.  I don't think he got over blaming her for his son's death. 

I think he's biding his time combined with grief that he still can't shake.  I don't think he completely blames her, but feels she bears a lot of responsibility anyway.  He's probably waiting for one big screw up before he really goes after her. 

[FireGhost]

Now that I had time to think about it ... William Dodds planning his revenge on Benson for 2+ seasons does seem badass + awesome. But why do I get the feeling that it was an inpromptu decision, not planned all along. kinda cheapens the thrill.  

the whole reason why Barba/Benson get so much screen time is because Raúl's eating out of Mariska's hand. I don't blame him. He makes at least 10k per ep. The hand that feeds you and shit. But there's just no in-canon reason why they should be more than work friends. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by FireGhost
spelling ;)

[shapeshifter]

38 minutes ago, ChristiKRN said:

I'm probably overreaching here, but I can see the end of the show coming with Benson being demoted/fired.

The L&O franchise has a long history of bringing in new characters as it cycles out regulars. With all the new and still being generated headlines just ripe for ripping, it seems logical to have Olivia ride off into the sunset with Noah and to bring in a new lead. 

 

18 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

I guess the memo Fin was referring to was about Dodds interviewing possible replacements, but he was within his rights to do so, in my opinion. 

I know it wouldn't fit with Finn sticking up for Liv earlier in the episode, but I immediately thought Finn was going to put his own name in for her job. More likely Ice-T would be ready to quit this gig and let some new blood come on board—if they don't just sound the final Ch-Chung.

[FireGhost]

Quote

The L&O franchise has a long history of bringing in new characters as it cycles out regulars. With all the new and still being generated headlines just ripe for ripping, it seems logical to have Olivia ride off into the sunset with Noah and to bring in a new lead. 

@shapeshifter You're right . And I really, truly, sincerely wish this would apply here... but Mariska has more influence than Epatha Merkerson, Chris Meloni, etc. combined. She's not going anywhere. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by FireGhost

[Willowsmom]

I love Ice T but it's time for him to go. And far past time for Olivia to toddle off into the sunset.

They need to either replace Barba or rehabilitate him. DA's do not do what the cops say, cops do what DA's say. The way things are it makes Barba too weak and Olivia far to powerful.

[wknt3]

10 hours ago, Willowsmom said:

They need to either replace Barba or rehabilitate him. DA's do not do what the cops say, cops do what DA's say. The way things are it makes Barba too weak and Olivia far to powerful.

I agree that Benson has been far too involved in the legal side and making decisions that should be Barba's (and to be fair they do seem to making a fair amount of progress on that this year if not as fast as many of us would like given that the new showrunner clearly knows better) but I think saying that cops do what DAs say is oversimplifying things a bit. I think a better phrasing would be that the police and district attorneys are separate, yet equally important, with different roles. When the franchise is at it's best  the two work together with some tensions at times and neither side is right all the time or issuing orders (Van Buren smacking down people in the DA's office who thought cops do what DA's say all the time! made for some great scenes!). And while the DA should be the one making the call as to when charges are filed, what charges are filed, warrants, etc. I don't have a problem with the detectives persuading a reluctant ADA to do what they want when they feel strongly. I do have a problem when it seems to be an order or when it's a situation where an attorney is making a case that has no chance and no basis in law which was the case far too much last season. I'm glad that it was clearly Barba's decision in this episode and he was trying to make a point and maybe change the law as a crusading DA in the Law & Order tradition. I just wish that they had done a better job of coming up with a colorable claim. I think in some ways they have been working to rehabilitate the character (he's shown far more cojones this season than last) but given the depth of the hole they had dug, continuing creative influence from those who liked the way things were, and the lack of legal chops among the writing staff it's going to take some time.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Benson looked freshly botoxed. Guess she used her time off well.

Didn't like that they had to mix the rape up with an unsubstantiated terrorism accusation. Are women of Middle Eastern heritage not allowed to assert they've been sexually assaulted lest they be accused of terrorism? I get that one crime should not be accepted as an excuse for the other but I don't see why the show tried to conflate the two issues unnecessarily.

"You want me to cut him?" Stay gangsta, T. ?

The whole time I was watching this episode I was thinking how much I hope we're not about to find out something terrible about hero pilot Sully. Meanwhile, is it me or did the unctuous airline CEO sort of resemble Robert Downey Jr? RDJ hasn't been mentioned in the #metoo reveals, has he?

Calm down, Barba. You're trying too hard. No chick likes an overeager guy.

[atlantaloves]

Well I liked this episode a lot, it was timely, if not a little ridiculous.  But I loved that there was no stupid Noah, not a lot of Benson and Ice Tea got in some good zingers. But, hey, what is in that or memo that he kept a copy of?  It's driving me nuts. 

[Fiero425]

17 hours ago, Willowsmom said:

I love Ice T but it's time for him to go. And far past time for Olivia to toddle off into the sunset.

They need to either replace Barba or rehabilitate him. DA's do not do what the cops say, cops do what DA's say. The way things are it makes Barba too weak and Olivia far to powerful.

If not cancelled this season, they should definitely make preparations to shut it all down by the next! It's not like I don't love the show, but the writing and producing has just about collapsed into nonsense! If we can start guessing the outcome before we even see the episode, it's time! I wasn't the least bit shocked Sheila was the kidnapper; that sort of thing goes on all the time IRL! Grandparents have gone to court demanding visitation; we had to know she felt closer due to blood! Noah would have had a pathological liar raising him with this crazy woman feeling entitled to do all she did to get him! ;-(

[WendyCR72]

21 hours ago, FireGhost said:

@shapeshifter You're right . And I really, truly, sincerely wish this would apply here... but Mariska has more influence than Epatha Merkerson, Chris Meloni, etc. combined. She's not going anywhere. 

If this was maybe 9 or so seasons in like CI was when its leads did a complete change (from D'Onofrio/Erbe to Goldblum/Barrows as the leads - and even that failed with the former returning), that's one thing. But the show is almost 20 seasons in, and stories have been recycled to death. I think once Hargitay hangs it up, so does the show.

[Xeliou66]

I miss when the police and the DA’s were on more equal footing and they worked together but not too closely and the DA’s actually had balls to tell the cops when they didn’t have enough. Now Barba exists only to please Benson, everything he does is to please her, and it’s nauseating how’s he constantly hanging out with Benson, I guess he has no one else to spend any time with, even though we’ve seen in the past he knows some higher up people. We don’t want to see Barba kissing the ass of Benson, we want to see Barba as the strong prosecutor who has balls and who doesn’t take any crap from Benson and hangs out with the rich and famous, not as a dickless puppet who worships St Olivia and seems to devote his life to making her happy. 

I’m sick of how Fin gets absolutely nothing, Carisi has basically lost his personality and is there just to provide whatever the writers want him to, while Rollins and Benson get all the action. I’m also disappointed with how the show didn’t show any backlash from the squads actions when Noah was kidnapped other than Dodds making Benson take several weeks off. I was disappointed we didn’t see backlash against Rollins for assaulting the kidnapper, which might’ve lead to him getting off completely, and also Fin letting Olivia go to NH alone and not even calling the local cops. There should’ve been backlash for Benson, Fin and Rollins but we saw nothing.

I’m ready for Peter Stone to come in, inject new life into the show and hopefully hand them all their asses on a gold platter. 

[QueenMab]

IMO... Benson's "friendship" with ADA Barba was a slap in the face/ snotty response to Harry Connick Jr.(EADA Haden) and his objection to his character being immoral and unethical and being cast just to hop in bed with Benson, and quitting the show. So....they tried another ADA but this time they gave it all the appearances of a sexual relationship but insisted it's just a "soulmates" thing, so they could get away with it. ( men are soulmates with their dogs...where does that put Benson in the scheme of things lol). But they've dug a very deep hole with those two and Chernuchin, a lawyer himself, knows this. So...any detaching isn't going to happen overnight, and is going to involve a lot of soap opera trauma. A new ADA character who is an anal retentive stickler for ethical practice might just be the perfect way out for the show, because everybody on the show is already complicit in the relationship, even Dodds, so no pressure can or will come from them. I too hope Peter Stone kicks ass from Benson, to Barba, to Dodds, and anybody else who doesn't get their professional shit together. I can dream.

[auntiemel]

I was so annoyed at Barba's line about, "Well, the grand jury agrees that Optimum Air is guilty, and so is every single one of their employees."

Really? Every single one? The mailroom guy is culpable? The receptionist? That temp they brought in last week to catch up on filing but let go because she was always on her phone? They're all equally culpable. Got it.

[shksabelle]

Hello from the shallow end of the pool. I thought MH looked particularly bad tonight. She looked haggard, and I can’t decide if that was done on purpose as she now has PTSD post the Noah kidnapping or if she just  looked bad. 

Her hair, in particular, is too long, too flat against her big, square face, and looked unwashed. 

I’ll swim away now. 

[Vicky8675309]

Harsh to destroy an entire company based on some corrupt higher ups in charge. I feel bad for the secretaries, mechanics, flight attendants (I doubt they were all in on it), mail room people, tech people, etc who had nothing to do with the cover ups of the rapes/harrassment.

I also didn't like the political agenda of the show (comment about Fox News, another white male bad guy, etc...). I'm not saying all white guys are innocent but they seem to be the majority of the perpetrators on SVU. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Vicky8675309

[minamurray78]

Benson and Barba patting each other on the shoulder on how the company would be declaring bankruptcy by the end of the week was gross, those are people's jobs going down, but it wouldn't be the first time they screw over the little people for the sake of their agenda. 

Also, I love Finn to death but did he really say "Liv's been trhough hell" to a man who buried his son? Shut up Finn.

[RafaelBarba35]

OK they just released a deleted scene where Benson and Barba are listening to a voice recording from the cockpit and Barba says, " at least she didn't say Allahu Akbar." He acknowledges it was a bad joke but WTF?! What the hell were the writers thinking?! And not only that but they made Rafael Barba say that? For what, the sake of a Barson scene? To make Olivia look like a moral compass? I'm shocked Raúl agreed to say that. I mean he looks really uncomfortable saying it so why agree to say it in the first place. I know Rafi can say some things that Liv doesn't agree with but this is completely out of character. 

[TV Anonymous]

On 1/18/2018 at 2:29 PM, zxeburk said:

This episode was not credibe at all, in the beginning she locks him out of cockpit then captian and airmarshall force the cockpit door open. This is totally not possible as doors are designed not to be able to break down. If they going to do a story on this then at least get it right and show real life not pretend

Indeed. As the Germanwings Flight 9525 (the Co-Pilot who crashed the plane to the Alps) demonstrated, once the cockpit is locked from inside, there was no way to break it down. For good reason, it was designed to prevent terrorist attack à la 9-11.

[FireGhost]

4 hours ago, RafaelBarba35 said:

OK they just released a deleted scene where Benson and Barba are listening to a voice recording from the cockpit and Barba says, " at least she didn't say Allahu Akbar." He acknowledges it was a bad joke but WTF?! What the hell were the writers thinking?! And not only that but they made Rafael Barba say that? For what, the sake of a Barson scene? To make Olivia look like a moral compass? I'm shocked Raúl agreed to say that. I mean he looks really uncomfortable saying it so why agree to say it in the first place. I know Rafi can say some things that Liv doesn't agree with but this is completely out of character. 

From feminist icon to edgelord, oh boy.

I, too thought it was out of character. But on the other hand, people in the real world fuck up sometimes, they aren't walking PSAs. Glad they deleted it.

Here's the video btw.

[Xeliou66]

That scene was clearly added just to make Benson look even more like the SJW hero that the show is obsessed with showing her as, they will have other characters behave OOC just so St Olivia can correct them and her halo can shine even brighter.

 I’m so sick of the insane far left race baiting agenda of the show now, it’s just gotten out of control. The show feels like a PSA now and not a crime show. 

[augmentedfourth]

On 1/18/2018 at 7:37 PM, ChristiKRN said:

-The airline did not want to promote women to pilot status due to being too emotional/unfit to make critical decisions.  For a show that promotes women's rights and overcoming being a victim, they did a huge disservice by proving the airline was right when the female co-pilot took control of the plane and almost crashed it when she learned she was going to be working with her rapist.  I can't imagine how difficult that must have been for her, but she could have handled it in any number of different ways that would have painted a different picture.

Yes, this bugged the hell out of me, too. I get that the victim was traumatized by being forced to work so closely with her rapist. I get that we should absolutely be repulsed whenever anyone says, "Women are too emotional to do XYZ." (And I certainly am.) But putting those two things side by side didn't gel well and they kind of cancelled each other out.

 

Speaking of what the victim did on the plane - I will admit to having zero experience with anything related to flying a plane, but if she was the co-pilot and had trained for tons and tons of hours...even if her intention was to just turn around and land back at JFK, wouldn't she have been able to do it a little more gracefully than that? Like, she'd locked the door and should have had all the time in the world, couldn't she have just made a big loop and not go flinging the passengers all over the place? I don't know. I guess it's another thing that didn't fit together for me, "women can be competent pilots!" vs. "as soon as a woman touched the controls, everything went to hell".

 

Sigh. Do I have to turn in my liberal feminist card if I think this episode mostly sucked? I resent this show for making me think that. :P I suppose I agree with the overall message, but as always, the delivery was abysmal.

[RafaelBarba35]

 So apparently Raúl most likely didn't have any say about this scene. If he refused he could have been fired and fined for a breach of contract. Actors are apparently low on the totem pole in productions. So they don't really have a say. That's even more fucked up! I don't blame Raúl at all for this. 

[ForeverAlone]

I can't hate on Rafael for what he said, because I probably would have said the same thing. But I also have a twisted sense of humor.

The show deliberately went with the route they did with the story, probably to make multiple political points at once. They chose to make Tara Muslim, and they chose to have her nearly crash the plane. It's like they wanted to make the point that not all Muslims are terrorists (true), but they undercut their message of female empowerment by having Tara freak out and nearly crash the plane. I don't think she was deliberately trying to crash the plane, but I also don't think she was qualified to land that plane. Or at least nothing in the episode made me think she was qualified to land that plane on her own. Everything we saw made it seem like she lost control and was close to accidentally crashing the plane. So unintentionally (because I don't think that was the point the writers were going for), they supported the notion that women pilots are too emotional to fly under extreme stress. I am relieved that Tara was convicted of some sort of federal charges, because she deserved to go to jail for her reckless behavior. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by ForeverAlone