S06.E10: Divided

[bmoore4026]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

Anyone else find it hilarious that NTA's secret lair is in the one spot that they know for sure Cayden James knows all about?

It will just make their inevitable asskicking all the more delightful.

[Primal Slayer]

As with majority of this show, it had the makings of a good episode but then they never really used anything to its fullest potential.

The team finding out about Cayden less then an episode after it is revealed he's been keeping tabs on him was a little weak imo. This should've been drawn out for at least 1 episode before TA found out. 

I know they are trying to play Laurel/Black Siren fans into thinking there is a chance of redemption but I got this shows number and I am not falling for it. They've barely put any work into it to make me think that they will really go there. Between Thea/Quentin's first convo and Thea/Quentin's last convo, there should've been an altercation between the three that changed Thea's mind and helped keep the hope in Quentin's heart. 

Vigilante on the other hand...they are totally setting him up for a redemption. He is going to doublecross Cayden and probably end up dying to save Dinah by the end of the season. But he is getting more to do and to further that plot then Laurel/Quentin are with theirs.

Oliver just keeps getting into fights with the group of baddies and flys away into the night, it was a bit funny. It was annoying that we spent all this time between Cayden obtaining a T-Sphere and him actually using it and Oliver is able to break them within SECONDS. But then Diggle/Felicity get to play a video game where they play as T-Spheres attacking the bad guys. They used it more efficiently then Curtis has since the first episode.

If you are going to break the team into 2 then at least show Oliver struggling being alone in the field but they did the exact opposite. Sure he had to run both times but he was doing fine. 

And oh look! the trailer for next week as the city in danger.again. At least this episode we had a Bertinelli in danger and a turf war. 

[BkWurm1]

I was more than fine with OTA figuring out they'd been bugged.  Even if we only knew about it a short time, it had been going on too long.

[Lady Calypso]

34 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Anyone else find it hilarious that NTA's secret lair is in the one spot that they know for sure Cayden James knows all about?

Here's how I imagine that going:

Black Siren: So, I've located the other three in the old Helix lair. I'm more than happy to go over there and kill them for you.

Cayden James: There's no need. They can be taken care of at any time. We have much more pressing issues and real threats to worry about. Maybe you can take care of them in between errands?

[WindofChange]

Best parts of the episode

http://oliverfelicitygifs.tumblr.com/post/169873728124

http://gothsmoak.tumblr.com/post/169874000416

https://felicitysmoakgifs.tumblr.com/post/169874603183/so-were-getting-in-bed-with-the-burtinellis-now

http://oliverfelicitygifs.tumblr.com/post/169873391894/well-what-about-a-license-plate-old-school-i

http://oliverfelicitygifs.tumblr.com/post/169873080824/you-ever-see-that-movie-bull-durham-hmm-my-mom

http://olivergifs.tumblr.com/post/169874402045

https://felicitysmoakgifs.tumblr.com/post/169873577023

http://turtlejustice.tumblr.com/post/169873558924/spartan-is-back

Edited January 19, 2018 by WindofChange

[catrox14]

[WindofChange]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

DRAG THEM STEVE

[WindofChange]

4 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

 

 

Did anyone else get choked up when they both said the quote at the same time? This moment was so soft. I love them so much oh my god

[Lantern7]

2 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Now that Rene is not part of Team Arrow anymore, can he be killed horribly, a la Jason Todd?

How about this . . . Oliver finds a rando, gives him hockey gear and a gun, and that guy is the new Wild Dog. "Rene, I totally respect your decision. I was thinking of retiring your identity, especially since we got Diggle stabilized. But I figured people expect a guy in a mask with little peripheral vision firing an automatic weapon. Also, the only thing he says is 'Hoss,' so it's like you never left!"

Hey, I can be snarky. Also, if Rene dies, Oliver might wind up "saving" the daughter by adopting her. I know some folks are tolerating William, but that might have been a fluke. [ETA: I mean that I saw a lot of people rooting for William to die a gruesome death  last season, but he seems okay . . . at least for a boy who lost his mother, and his biological father is a mayor of a large city and a vigilante. Small "v," not capital.]

Edited January 19, 2018 by Lantern7

[Chaser]

22 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

RG/JH/EK: NTA!

SA: Newbies.

[Lady Calypso]

I'd rather Rene decides to leave with his daughter in order to protect her, and I wouldn't be opposed to Vince needing to run off with Dinah so that he doesn't get killed by his fellow Team Villain members for betraying them (if he ever ends up betraying them, this is the outcome I want). However, Curtis can just....I don't care what they do with Curtis at this point. Ship him off, kill him off, send him to another Earth, at this point they can do whatever they please do. As long as he's gone from this show forever. 

[statsgirl]

Team Pissy being in Cayden James' old headquarters and patting themselves on the back after they found out that he has surveillance on the Arrow lair seems  like such a metaphor for them.  They think they are so much better and so much more put-up than they really are.

40 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Though while what Dinah did might be equal to breaking curfew or not calling when she's going to miss a date (if we use the other analogy) what Rene did is more equivalent to making a deal with the FBI to cover his ass but send the rest of his family to prison. 

And Curtis feels like he's mad just because he wanted a reason to be mad.  He literally did the same thing to Felicity all on his own for less reason last year and yet he's made his moral outrage for something that the OTA did reach levels where they never deserve forgiveness for their actions.  And that's an attitude I find more unforgivable than what Rene and Dinah actually did do.    

I think what Dinah did is more than breaking curfew because she kept secrets and encouraged Diggle to keep his secret while condemning Oliver and OTA for keeping secret their surveillance.  And why did she retire the Black Canary five weeks ago?  Does she think the city no longer needs saving? Or is she selfish enough not to care?

Curtis is the only one I feel any sympathy for because he didn't betray OTA Of course telling Rene that he did the right thing by choosing his family (in a season that is supposed to be about family made and family acquired, was bad but it was passive rather than active like what Rene and Dinah did.  And I get the feeling that Curtis just wants desperately to belong.  He threw in with Oliver and stayed faithful to him even at the cost of his marriage and now he feels betrayed that Oliver didn't trust him so he joined Rene and Dinah because they still want him.

Arrow has always been bad at make actions equivalent.  They tried to tell us that Felicity walking out on Oliver because he lied to her was just as bad as Oliver lying and hiding the existence of William; that Havenrock was as bad as The Undertaking; that Thea getting Susan fired was as bad as the things Moira did.  Now they're trying to sell that Oliver bugging the n00bs to see which one was betraying him was as bad as the betrayal.  I'm not buying it.  And while they can have Rene, Dinah and Curtis join Team Arrow again, I will never like them as much again.

Quote

Why is this whole fucking warehouse full of villains staring slack-jawed as Oliver gets away for THE SECOND TIME. This team up is so dumb. 

This reminds me of a skit the sadly now cancelled radio show The Irrelevant Show (stupid CBC) did when one of the villains explained how she managed to finally capture James Bond.  As the other villains asked in amazement, she explained that instead of waiting one by one to attack him, as the henchmen of the other villains did, she had all her guys attack him at once.

[way2interested]

40 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

http://turtlejustice.tumblr.com/post/169873558924/spartan-is-back

Ngl, I cheered when this happened. The music and the camera work and the acting were great. I felt so happy for Diggle and I loved the friendship vibe between the three of them and Oliver's little "don't count us out, yet" like comment. It was a great sequence to end on.

[BkWurm1]

15 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I think what Dinah did is more than breaking curfew because she kept secrets and encouraged Diggle to keep his secret while condemning Oliver and OTA for keeping secret their surveillance.  And why did she retire the Black Canary five weeks ago?  Does she think the city no longer needs saving? Or is she selfish enough not to care?

I guess I was only thinking of not telling anyone she was in contact with Vince.  At that time, she talked to him a few times but wasn't won over.  She'd kept that secret for a few weeks and it could have been something not too problematic but it became a bigger thing because she turned to him when she quit the team.  I do hold her more accountable for quitting the team and being the Canary and letting Vince suck her in deeper.  

[WindofChange]

I also really loved these moments

http://olivergifs.tumblr.com/post/169875472495

http://gothsmoak.tumblr.com/post/169876532851

[Hiveminder]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

 

Curtis is the only one I feel any sympathy for because he didn't betray OTA Of course telling Rene that he did the right thing by choosing his family (in a season that is supposed to be about family made and family acquired, was bad but it was passive rather than active like what Rene and Dinah did.  And I get the feeling that Curtis just wants desperately to belong.  He threw in with Oliver and stayed faithful to him even at the cost of his marriage and now he feels betrayed that Oliver didn't trust him so he joined Rene and Dinah because they still want him.

Arrow has always been bad at make actions equivalent.  They tried to tell us that Felicity walking out on Oliver because he lied to her was just as bad as Oliver lying and hiding the existence of William; that Havenrock was as bad as The Undertaking; that Thea getting Susan fired was as bad as the things Moira did.  Now they're trying to sell that Oliver bugging the n00bs to see which one was betraying him was as bad as the betrayal.  I'm not buying it.  And while they can have Rene, Dinah and Curtis join Team Arrow again, I will never like them as much again.

 

I would feel sorry for Curtis if he wasn’t being so whiny and precious. If your job involves fighting people trying to destroy the city and occasionally the world you should probably be mature enough to realize your feelings are not the most important thing in the world. 

I actually don’t think that Arrow is trying to say that what OTA did is equivalent to what Team Dumbf*cks did. What I saw was Oliver acting like a mature adult, and sometimes mature adults have to accept responsibility for things that weren’t necessarily their fault. He should consider this whole situation as practice for when William reaches that rebellious teenager stage. He will act exactly the same as those dingleberries are acting now. Except he’ll have crazy hormonal changes to explain it. 

[thuganomics85]

So, someone on another site pointed that this exchange actually just happened:

Oliver: “I thought you only killed criminals!”

Vince 'Vigilante' Sobel: “Vigilantes are criminals!” 

But... but.. but....oh, never mind.  My brain hurts too much to even process this.

[thegirlsleuth]

I don't usually like to comment on episodes I haven't watched, but reading your comments I can safely say I will never watch this episode (although thanks for the gifs above!). Do people think that the writers intended to make the newbies so despised?  Reading through the Arrow tag on twitter I was surprised at how universal the contempt was for the newbies--every single viewer hated their guts--and I'm trying to get a sense of whether the writers intended to make people loath the newbies or if the loathing just happened because of bad writing and the newbies were supposed to be slightly more sympathetic. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I don't usually like to comment on episodes I haven't watched, but reading your comments I can safely say I will never watch this episode (although thanks for the gifs above!). Do people think that the writers intended to make the newbies so despised?  Reading through the Arrow tag on twitter I was surprised at how universal the contempt was for the newbies--every single viewer hated their guts--and I'm trying to get a sense of whether the writers intended to make people loath the newbies or if the loathing just happened because of bad writing and the newbies were supposed to be slightly more sympathetic. 

I haven't watched the episode yet either but after reading reaction posts here and on twitter, I'm wondering the same thing. I can only think they thought the newbies would be justified but tbh when you have 3 characters that most people are indifferent to, it's not going to take much to push that indifference into dislike. Then there's the fans who already dislike them. This will only make them hate them more.

Once again I feel like Arrow writers just don't understand their audience and have completely overestimated fans' investment/like in the newbies. I mean, I've even seen people who like the newbies turn against them after this episode. YIKES all on levels.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Guest

[lemotomato]

So Felicity has been pulling all-nighters for 3 weeks and and Oliver has been risking capture going out patrolling, all to look for Cayden James and BS. Meanwhile the newbies have been sulking and "uncomplicating" their lives that whole time? And when they're given intel about how they've been compromised, all they do is lash out even more at the people that were actually still taking their vigilante-ing responsibilities seriously? This is supposed to make me sympathetic to the newbies? 

LOL, NOPE. 

I'm honestly not even 100% sure what happens in the scenes with the newbies after the first confrontation in the loft, because the way they acted there made me rage blackout. Rene having the nerve to tell Felicity he doesn't like how she talks to him after all the "Blondie" crap?? Flames. Flames on the side of my face. 

I liked that OTA and especially Oliver were shown as capable of almost taking down Cayden James's posse on their own if not for being massively outnumbered. Felicity figured out that the lair was bugged. Oliver thought of using Bertinelli's crew to even the odds a little. I know people were upset thinking that Oliver's skills got downgraded just so Vigilante can take him down, but keep in mind that he's a meta with healing abilities and god knows what other enhanced abilities. And even after getting pinned down, Oliver had a contingency plan and escaped on his own. 

I'm proud of Oliver for listening to Diggle and Felicity and acknowledging that he needed extra manpower to take on Team Bad Guys. He was the bigger person when he offered an olive branch to the newbies. I'm really glad that he washed his hands of them as soon as they made it clear they weren't receptive. You can't meet people in the middle if they refuse to budge. 

I really hope this split stays for a while because it's going to take a lot for me to even stand the sight of the noobs after tonight's episode.

Edited January 19, 2018 by lemotomato

[bijoux]

50 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I don't usually like to comment on episodes I haven't watched, but reading your comments I can safely say I will never watch this episode (although thanks for the gifs above!). Do people think that the writers intended to make the newbies so despised?  Reading through the Arrow tag on twitter I was surprised at how universal the contempt was for the newbies--every single viewer hated their guts--and I'm trying to get a sense of whether the writers intended to make people loath the newbies or if the loathing just happened because of bad writing and the newbies were supposed to be slightly more sympathetic. 

See, I'm actually the opposite. I'm looking forward to watching it. Yes, the newbies sound like flaming idiots, but OTA sound so, so great. Driven, put together, capable, willing to co-operate for the greater good. I'm in.

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I don't usually like to comment on episodes I haven't watched, but reading your comments I can safely say I will never watch this episode (although thanks for the gifs above!). Do people think that the writers intended to make the newbies so despised?  Reading through the Arrow tag on twitter I was surprised at how universal the contempt was for the newbies--every single viewer hated their guts--and I'm trying to get a sense of whether the writers intended to make people loath the newbies or if the loathing just happened because of bad writing and the newbies were supposed to be slightly more sympathetic. 

Before this episode Reddit was very NTA.  Now some are still ecstatic over Curtis and Rene "calling" Felicity on her stuff.  But it's no longer a safe haven for the NTA.  Still plenty defending them but even over there the tide seems to be shifting.  It's refreshing for them not to be only ranting about Felicity, lol.                                                                   

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Now some are still ecstatic over Curtis and Rene "calling" Felicity on her stuff.

LOL - getting angry at people for acting like petulant babies while one of them is actively helping putting her husband in jail? What a bitch!

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I don't usually like to comment on episodes I haven't watched, but reading your comments I can safely say I will never watch this episode (although thanks for the gifs above!). 

I wouldn't write it off, there's some really good stuff in the episode. Great OTA and Dilicity scenes, a sweet Olicity-ish scene, a lovely Oliver/Thea scene. A couple of good fight scenes (except for shaky can crap at the end). A good Thea/Lance scene (first one, second was dumb because plot).

I also didn't mind the individual noobies scenes, until they got all self righteous. I definitely think it's worth a watch but, obviously that's a personal choice.

 

Speaking of the noobs after a good nights sleep here are my thoughts.  Going back to 609 I actually understood Rene and respected when Rene stepped up and admitted he was the Rat. I had issues with Dinah being self righteous about trust when she was keeping or helping people keep secrets for the first 7 episodes. My biggest ire was with Curtis because he was the least impacted but, reacted the worst. Especially since he betrayed Felicity in S5, by sneaking Nanite trackers into her pancakes and following her to Helix. You don't get to be Self Righteous about an act you already pulled and NEVER apologized for. Especially when Felicity didn't didn't give YOU shit for your actions. 

Honestly its the blatant hypocrisy that annoys me most.

Starting with 610, I didn't have issues with Curtis in his first scene and I didn't have issues with Rene in his first. One thing I'll give to Rene he actually knows that he did wrong and seems to want to make it right. I respect that. I'll go one further, IIRC @BkWurm1 mentioned on rewatch catching Rene Stress Eating in an episode leading up to 609 reveal so his actions weigh on him. 

My issues started with Curtis trying to tell Rene what he did (which Rene knew was wrong and wanted to fix) was perfectly acceptable. Bad Curtis.  My second issue  was with the Felicity/Noobs meeting when Dinah/Curtis/Rene got all fucking self righteous. The final straw was the end when Oliver apologized, took ownership for his actions, explained why he reacted the way he did AND pointed out how there was faults all around (which was TRUE).  The fact that Noobs basically spit in Oliver's face for no real reason other than to leave in a huff is just unforgivable to me. I don't WANT them back on the team. I don't WANT them on the show after this. Ship all those idiots off to another town to "play" hero. 

[doesntworkonwood]

This episode seems to have failed in what it set out to do and, if anything, has made me more mad and also disgusted at the hypocrisy that the newbies are displaying (and that's with me skipping most of their scenes). Dinah is mad that OTA waited 24 hours to let her know she was compromised? You've been compromised for months, courtesy of the guy standing right next to you. I don't even know what Rene and Curtis are being pissy about. 

I did, however, get some of my favourite OTA scenes in this episode, so it wasn't all bad. Oliver telling Diggle that it started with the three of them, Diggle and Felicity working together, and of course Diggle getting back to form at the end of the episode. I can't wait until the next episode just because I'm sure we'll get more of those scenes, and I can always just skip the ones I don't like. 

[benteen]

I DVR'd the last episode and didn't feel like finishing it.  I barely paid attention to this episode and I shut it off.  I just don't think I can watch this show anymore.  I think Arrow is past its prime.

[Proteus]

I wish the Oliver/Thea scene was a hint at Thea becoming Speedy again & rejoining the team. Sigh.

[BkWurm1]

12 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I wish the Oliver/Thea scene was a hint at Thea becoming Speedy again & rejoining the team. Sigh.

For whatever reason, yeah, it seems clear they are not letting Willa back in the costume.  Maybe it's as simple as the lair is already crowded once the rift is over. Maybe there is BTS stuff.  Or maybe they know I'd give even less a fuck about the newbs if Thea was on OTA.  If we had Oliver, Diggle and Thea out in the field, really, what the hell would we need the bird, the dog and the T for?

Edited January 19, 2018 by BkWurm1

[themadman]

Would anyone here mind terribly if the NTA were, oh, all killed off in a bomb explosion? Because I wouldn't. Fuck them. Saves on show budget, improves the show.

Edited January 19, 2018 by themadman

[ladylaw99]

I can admit that I am bias when it comes to OTA, my love runs deep for these three.  This trio is why I stayed with this show thru the good and the bad times.  Sometimes I see things with rose coloured glasses but after tonight I saw things crystal clear.  

In season 5 I could not stand Rene mainly because I hated the way he spoke to Felicity and I admit I am bias because she is my favorite character on the show.  Season 6 came along and I found him sometimes funny and I could tolerate him.   Last night reminded me why I didn't like Rene.    "I am getting tired with the way you talk to me" the minute these words came out of his mouth I was done with him. He is an ass.  I would like to know what exactly Felicity has ever done to this self-righteous baby.  If anyone should be saying these words it should be Felicity to Rene, with his attitude and "blondie" I would be asking him what the f$ck is his problem?  and then I would tell him to kiss my cute European ass.  There is no way i could ever accept him back on the team.  He  needs to go.

Curtis I can no longer block out.  I was doing so good but since 6.09 it has been too hard.  I don't understand what Curtis problem is.  He is a bratty toddler that I have no patience for. He needs to leave pronto.  

DD I don't care for her character. If I never see another BC again it will be too soon. She is a hypocrite, enough said.

The OTA scenes and Delicity scenes were wonderful.  I had the biggest smile when these 3 were on my screen.  Diggle getting Felicity coffee and Felicity working on Diggles arm.  Diggle's huge smile when he realized the chip worked, Felicity playing with her wedding band and Oliver stating again it started with the three of them.  That's what I am here for.

Quentin once again is getting the dog scrapes of a stupid story.  He deserves better than that and now Thea is being thrown into this ridiculous  storyline.  Roy can not get here fast enough.

[Mellowyellow]

I really enjoyed that! I was worried after reading the comments on this board but I really liked the episode.

For one thing it made Team Pissy (thank you @statsgirl I'm going to use this from now on because their faces are always UBER Pissy looking and they have piss poor attitudes) look really irrational and crazy. What I can't work out is whether the writers are doing this intentionally or not. After the whole Shady Pantry Moth debacle it could very well be the writers completely misreading their audience but the way it was written, the lines, attitudes of the characters, it almost feels like it was deliberately written to make Team Pissy look like a bunch of irrational numpties with severe bad judgement!

Dinah having a fit over OTA taking 24 hours (oh the horror of it! how dare they) to notify them that they've been compromised, Rene being a sneaky traitor and then THROWING IT BACK IN OLIVER'S FACE after Oliver's very mature and heart felt speech, Curtis being a pissy outrage dickhead over just about everything and his constant bleating about trust. To me it didn't feel like this was done to make OTA look bad. It made Team Pissy look SOUR and IRRATIONAL!

LOVED LOVED LOVED it when Curtis finished bleating and  Oliver said "Point taken" and wished them luck like he wasn't going to talk to these twits anymore! Great scene SA! 

I like that they portrayed Oliver as rising above it all when the hacks were basically running around throwing tantrums at any chance they got.

Way to bury your useless Noobs Arrow writers! Job well done! 

***

The Oliver/Thea scene was short but it was so sweet!

LOVED LOVED LOVED my OTA and Diggle and Felicity going in video game style! I am now hoping Felicity builds and sends in a drone once in a while just for the fun of it!

Yay Diggle's arm is fixed!!!!!!!

I am not sure how I feel about Felicity referring to Oliver as "Daddy". I get the whole reference to Team Pissy calling them "Mom and Dad" in S5 but her referring to Oliver as Daddy gives me a whole set of images I'm not sure I'm ready for lol.

MARRIED OLICITY IS SO CUTE!!!!!! While it wasn't a huge Olicity episode I thought it did a lovely job of portraying what ordinary married people are like. Obviously they are not that ordinary and live in a world of baddies, metas and a city constantly under attack but you know what I mean! 

I mean I love the loaded longing looks and heart eyes more than anyone but I loved all the cute little details in this ep so much.

*Oliver sharpening his arrows while Felicity flops near him because she's tired,

*Oliver not greeting her and breezing in with a whole set of tasks to do (so realistic when you have a busy life and you're running around trying to get things done/sorted) and her calling him on it

*Felicity bringing up and mocking him about his ex and the look he gave her for mocking him. That was priceless!

and best of all

*Their mushy little scene at the end when they quoted the movie in unison. Did you notice Diggle looking on with a really shippy face????? I loved this scene so much because for me it really gave me a glimpse at who they are as a married couple. I've watched and loved the intense epic love affair between them but I really appreciate the writers showing us how much they have in common as a serene married couple, who share certain little quirks and speak their own language. I've totally got this head canon of them snuggling and watching certain movies together. While eating monte cristos perhaps! This is the stuff that makes a marriage last! 

[Guest]

I watched the episode very late last night (actually it was very early this morning) so I might not have all my thoughts yet...

I appreciated that Rene felt guilty about how everything went down with Oliver. So consider me absolutely baffled by the 180 of his attitude when Diggle and Felicity asked to speak to them. "Not after what the three of you did." The guy betrayed Oliver in the worst way possible and gave OTA a reason to spy on them and now somehow they're the bad guys??? GTFO. 

Basically, the newbies can choke. I couldn't believe how terrible they were behaving. The way all three of them spoke to Delicity in the loft was incredibly rude and self-righteous and just awful. I know they'll be back on the team again eventually but I've moved into pure hatred now so I'm never gonna like it. Good job, show!

Also, while OTA were working all hours in trying to find Cayden James, the newbies just hung up their vigilante lives and moved on like it was no big deal. Clearly they don't care about the city or helping people as much as OTA do. Bye!

I also think Dinah has a serious anger/attitude problem. She behaves like a brat, stomping off and glaring and being angry. (I'd actually rather have Laurel back. We've reached a new low.) And that scene where she's walking with Vince and reminiscing just made me cringe. IDK why. JH's acting felt so OTT and insincere. 

Also, I continue to be disappointed in the way Curtis gets to build tech and Felicity isn't allowed to. Something about this just rubs me up the wrong way. Once again it feels like a way to prop Curtis and give him stuff to do while taking away from Felicity's skillset. Basically I need Curtis to just die already. And he can take Rene and Dinah with him.

Oh, I forgot to mention how much I loved seeing Oliver's growth as a person and character in the episode. Oliver of a couple of years ago would never have admitted he needed more manpower and then made a lovely speech explaining and acknowledging his struggles. AND wishing those assholes good luck. Sincerely, too. (Even though I don't think he owed them an apology AT ALL.)

Me to Oliver:

Edited January 19, 2018 by Guest

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I can't even express how pissed at the NTA I am. 

They don't FUCKING deserve that name.

11 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm ok with NTA.  It can mean both New Team Arrow or Not Team Arrow if one likes.  

 

I can accept that.

11 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

@thuganomics85  if Jim Caviezel was in this show I would have had to turn the sound way up and put CC on because that man mumbles worse than anyone in Arrow. 

Dont get me wrong though I loved him in Person if Interest. 

That low, raspy voice as Reese was a deliberate choice. Otherwise, Reese Caviezel can speak very well and clearly. Oh, what I wouldn't give to see a fight between Reese and Oliver! It would be epic! EVUHL!FINCH deserves a competent badass rockstar of a henchman!

AHEM.

That said, MY GOD. I HATELOATHEDESTESTHATEHATEHATEHATEHATE WITH THE HEAT OF A GAZILLIONMILLIONTRILLION SUNS Those self-righteous, hypocritical, UNGRATEFUL LOUTS of human beings and want them to see their lives flash before their lives only to have Oliver, John and Felicity save their worthless asses and then turn away. They don't deserve JACK SHIT. And I will be chortling with GLEE when EVUHL!FINCH rains down on their smug arrogant asses.

[bethy]

They have to have realized how the newbies would be perceived after this episode. They HAVE TO. They wrote this amazing, mature, humble speech for Oliver and then had the noobs come back at him the way they did? They had to have set up that contrast deliberately, right? Right? 

 

If MG or whoever respond as if they are totally surprised about the newbie hate, then they have no understanding of human nature and should no longer be allowed to write as a profession. The writer’s guild should revoke their memberships and ban them for life.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

I am not sure how I feel about Felicity referring to Oliver as "Daddy". I get the whole reference to Team Pissy calling them "Mom and Dad" in S5 but her referring to Oliver as Daddy gives me a whole set of images I'm not sure I'm ready for lol.

I am very much not a fan of using the term "daddy" in any sort of a sexual way.  Icks the hell out of me but I took it more as the newbs being childish than Felicity seeing Oliver as her "Daddy" in any way.  Before they were mom and dad.  Daddy makes the children in question even more infantile and that works very well for me.  I am so holding a grudge against this lot.

   

Quote

 They have to have realized how the newbies would be perceived after this episode. They HAVE TO. They wrote this amazing, mature, humble speech for Oliver and then had the noobs come back at him the way they did? They had to have set up that contrast deliberately, right? Right? 

It does make me hopeful that we will see the NTA really humbled and see them all have to say all the ways they were completely wrong. Though from what the OTA actors were saying at the most recent con, I don't think we will see a resolution very fast.  The only good thing about stretching it out (besides more OTA time) is I think it increases the chances of one of the newbs permanently retiring.  (not dying but getting on a bus)

[Chaser]

Vincent has healing powers so why does he have a scar across his face?

I think I could have enjoyed S5 Dinah and Vincent.  But S6 Dinah I don't have time for. Also, JH is not a strong actress. I was cringing a lot.

I love how mature and grounded OTA came across. Working through problems, leaning on each other, putting the city first, trying to understand the other side. The newbies looked sooo bad in comparison. 

Rene betrayed the Team but OTA broke the trust? Dinah was lying but she still felt she should have been trusted? Curtis can understand Rene's actions for his daughter but he can't understand Olivers for his family? That toast they did at the end, they can all STFU. None of them can trust each other.

I loved Felicity not holding back with them. 

I missed Thea. I'm sad we only got her back for a short time before Plot Thea made an appearance. I can understand Lances struggle, but Thea enabling it. Nope.

Olicity have been married for like 5 weeks. Happy Anniversary guys!

[statsgirl]

I think the episode is worth watching for several reasons:

• OTA is back!  Scenes with each other (finally Diggle and Felicity get to share a scene again now that Dinah is gone) and being the supportive and tight-knit group they were again
• Thea is back.  Really  nice scenes with Oliver and Quentin
• the fun of throwing shade at the n00bs
• Michael Emerson and David Nykl. And the "Siren kiss" line.

There are problems of course, what Arrow episode doesn't have them (maybe 5x20) but it Old Style Arrow rather than Susan/Tiny Hands Arrow or Ras al Ghul Arrow. Although if I never see another episode Bam Bam directed, it will be fine with me.

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, someone on another site pointed that this exchange actually just happened:

Oliver: “I thought you only killed criminals!”

Vince 'Vigilante' Sobel: “Vigilantes are criminals!” 

But... but.. but....oh, never mind.  My brain hurts too much to even process this.

There was apparently quite a bit of brain damage when the reactor exploded.

8 hours ago, lemotomato said:

So Felicity has been pulling all-nighters for 3 weeks and and Oliver has been risking capture going out patrolling, all to look for Cayden James and BS. Meanwhile the newbies have been sulking and "uncomplicating" their lives that whole time? And when they're given intel about how they've been compromised, all they do is lash out even more at the people that were actually still taking their vigilante-ing responsibilities seriously? This is supposed to make me sympathetic to the newbies? 

LOL, NOPE. 

I'm honestly not even 100% sure what happens in the scenes with the newbies after the first confrontation in the loft, because the way they acted there made me rage blackout. Rene having the nerve to tell Felicity he doesn't like how she talks to him after all the "Blondie" crap?? Flames. Flames on the side of my face. 

I liked that OTA and especially Oliver were shown as capable of almost taking down Cayden James's posse on their own if not for being massively outnumbered. Felicity figured out that the lair was bugged. Oliver thought of using Bertinelli's crew to even the odds a little. I know people were upset thinking that Oliver's skills got downgraded just so Vigilante can take him down, but keep in mind that he's a meta with healing abilities and god knows what other enhanced abilities. And even after getting pinned down, Oliver had a contingency plan and escaped on his own. 

I'm proud of Oliver for listening to Diggle and Felicity and acknowledging that he needed extra manpower to take on Team Bad Guys. He was the bigger person when he offered an olive branch to the newbies. I'm really glad that he washed his hands of them as soon as they made it clear they weren't receptive. You can't meet people in the middle if they refuse to budge.

This is another time when I really wish I knew what they were thinking in the writers room.  OTA were written as pretty damn near perfect -- Oliver demonstrated how much he's grown emotionally and as a leader over the five seasons; Felicity caught the bug and did her job without sleep; and Diggle was Yoda (emotional and coffee support) and now his arm is fixed.  The n00bs were babies, whiny babies.

Are we all assuming that they will be back together within a handful of episodes?

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

The fact that Noobs basically spit in Oliver's face for no real reason other than to leave in a huff is just unforgivable to me. I don't WANT them back on the team. I don't WANT them on the show after this. Ship all those idiots off to another town to "play" hero. 

Are the writers badly misreading the audience again, or is there a rabbit they can pull out of their hat? This isn't just one character like Susan but the whole group of new Team members.

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

LOL - getting angry at people for acting like petulant babies while one of them is actively helping putting her husband in jail? What a bitch!

Oh Reddit, you'll never change.

[lemotomato]

I motion to go back to calling the n00bs boobs. Because that's fitting to how they've been acting.

Edited January 19, 2018 by lemotomato

[tangerine95]

Seriously I don't think I've ever seen a worse team storyline than this tbh.It's kinda crazy how bad it is if the purpose is supposed to be to unite the team at the end but instead it's coming off like a reveal that the newbies hate and resent Oliver,Felicity and Diggle who don't exactly give a crap about them either.It really shows that the writers just never write for characters it's always about plot.Feels like they just decided we're doing a civil war storyline and doesn't matter if it makes sense or makes the characters the audience isn't that excited about in the first place,look horrible.

I agree that it's hard to tell if we're supposed to think OTA is in the wrong because they're just not but you never know with this show.I feel like the fact that they apologized covered their part of the everyone is wrong about something storyline and the newbies are left to learn their lesson.

OTA was amazing in this ep tho,I loved all their scenes.Especially Digg and Felicity,funny how it took the people they have to prop finally being gone for them to actually talk on screen.And I love how much faith Oliver has in Digg and Felicity and their team,you can just tell these are the people he wants to do this with.He was also really mature and just the bigger person in all of this.He apologized to a bunch of immature jerks when they didn't deserve it because that was what needed to be done for the city(tho I think it's unbelievably contrived that he has no options apart from the newbies).

Rene again started of kinda sympathetic but again he won't really accept responsibility that he didn't find another way and chose the selfish way and is now hiding behind the kid he had to be convinced not to abandon a second time.And again when Oliver forgives and even apologized he acts like a jerk for no real reason compared to what he did.

Dinah is just angry all the time,it's really off putting imo.Reminds me of Laurel so I guess for them that's the defining trait for BC along with the hypocrisy.

Curtis was horrible as usual.He has as many relevant reasons to be angry as he has to be a vigilante.I feel like that's how you know a character is useless and forced in, when they do this dramatic stuff for no reason and put themselves in positions they don't belong in by simple logic.He's honestly coming off like he wants attention.He's pissed that he's not as important to Oliver as Felicity and Digg.All the newbies are looking like that's the real issue for them and it's so petty and unrealistic to expect Oliver to see them as important to him as his wife and the man he calls a brother who have been with him through everything for 6 years,saved his life countless times and never once betrayed him.

And tbh I'm ready for Lance to die or leave or something.Because if his only storyline every single season is going to be acting crazy because of one of his daughters then it's a waste of time.I do get someone had to be sacrificed to care about BS so she has a reason to be on the show and I'm so glad it's not Oliver,Felicity or Digg but Lance is just looking dumb.

Edited January 19, 2018 by tangerine95

[Guest]

Another thing that pissed me off his Rene telling Felicity he's fed up with the way she talks to him. Did I miss something? Maybe she's fed up with being called "Blondie" for over a year, even when she's asked him not to call her that, and the dismissive, often rude, way he talks to her. Pot, meet kettle. 

Seriously, this episode was not good for the newbies at all. I'm baffled as to why EK thought they'd win anyone over (outside anyone who has a petty hate against OTA because it's not comics OTA, or those who dislike Oliver and Felicity). I'm wondering if this is all intentional or if the writers really do have a massive disconnect with the audience. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Guest

[insomniadreams88]

You know, I'm hoping since they had the whole "Oliver reaches out, newbies refuse to come back scene" that it means that from now on, it'll be up to the newbies to apologize/grovel/beg on their knees to return. I doubt it, but I can hope.

Also, I can't help but wonder if they think it's enough that the newbies are all masks to have people on their side. 

And I still can't get over how much I can't stand Curtis anymore. Especially since we see that anyone can use Curtis' T-spheres at a computer anywhere, so why exactly does the team need him in the field? They don't. They don't need him at the computers either because that's Felicity's domain. So where does that leave Curtis? Being annoying?

[GHScorpiosRule]

15 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Feels like they just decided we're doing a civil war storyline and doesn't matter if it makes sense or makes the characters the audience isn't that excited about in the first place,look horrible.

And this just makes me roll my eyes--not what you posted, but that the writers who thought this was their "Civil War" plot, because it's SO NOT. And these boobs didn't even earn their hero-hood, or whatever.

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

And I still can't get over how much I can't stand Curtis anymore. Especially since we see that anyone can use Curtis' T-spheres at a computer anywhere, so why exactly does the team need him in the field? They don't. They don't need him at the computers either because that's Felicity's domain. So where does that leave Curtis? Being annoying?

I laughed at that portion of the episode (and not just because of the Halo joke) because one person of my watching group said "Ha, they're diminishing Curtis' skill set like they did to Felicity in s4," since now even Diggle can operate the T-spheres and Felicity didn't even have to break a sweat to get them to work.

[tangerine95]

3 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And this just makes me roll my eyes--not what you posted, but that the writers who thought this was their "Civil War" plot, because it's SO NOT. And these boobs didn't even earn their hero-hood, or whatever.

Oh yeah not only did they not earn the same level of being heroes as OTA has but they also don't have the relationships developed to pull of that type of storyline.Because Rene never talks to Felicity,Curtis barely talks to Digg or Oliver,Dinah never talks to Felicity and talked to Oliver in like two episodes.We just don't see the relationships on screen to be invested in that type of storyline even if their reasons weren't as totally illogical as they are.

[WindofChange]

20 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

And I still can't get over how much I can't stand Curtis anymore. Especially since we see that anyone can use Curtis' T-spheres at a computer anywhere, so why exactly does the team need him in the field? They don't. They don't need him at the computers either because that's Felicity's domain. So where does that leave Curtis? Being annoying?

Felicity compared running the T-Spheres to a game of Halo!

HEY! Maybe William can be in charge of the T-Spheres from now on? I mean he is a lot more tolerable than Curtis and seems more mature than him

[jay741982]

13 hours ago, WindofChange said:

My new kink is Felicity calling Oliver "Daddy".

I'm not even sorry.

You put that out there THAT'S ON YOU LOL. But seriously after she said my mind went places lol

[lemotomato]

I forgot to mention a moment that made me laugh-- in the opening scene when Cayden James makes his pitch to Jerry Bertinelli and says something like "Ships in your port disappear", Dick Dragon repeats it like a cliche low level stooge. 

Also, BS getting taken out by different trick arrows every time she shows up to do something needs to be a recurring theme. 

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

BS getting taken out by different trick arrows every time she shows up to do something needs to be a recurring theme. 

They're being used to basically keep her and Oliver from interacting. I'm waiting for him to use a parachute one on her to fly her away before they can be in the same frame. "Oh no, they're within 10 feet of each other, let's send her to the other side of the city." 

[bethy]

I’m really appreciating that Oliver is only referring to Black Siren AS Black Siren. While others still refer to her as Laurel (who she is NOT), I didn’t hear that from Oliver. (If he did and I missed it, please don’t burst my bubble.) 

My feelings about them calling BS “Laurel” are similar to Monica’s feelings about low-fat mayonnaise:

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by bethy

[lemotomato]

19 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

They're being used to basically keep her and Oliver from interacting. I'm waiting for him to use a parachute one on her to fly her away before they can be in the same frame. "Oh no, they're within 10 feet of each other, let's send her to the other side of the city." 

Hee! That made me remember one of my favorite gifs from the episode: