S07.E07: RUNWAYS, REHAB, AND RETAIL

[Mr. Miner]

11 minutes ago, Snarky McSnarky said:

I don't get the point of Farrah and Sophia walking that runway.  Were they modeling their own outfits or some designer's clothes (who would hire them?)? Or was it just some pay-to-play offshoot of NY Fashion Week?  They never said WHY they were doing it.

Farrah's world consists of porn stars and drag queens and sex industry appearances. When she's not busy with that she hates her mother and let's her creepy dad kiss her ass. It's a god damn freak show!

[ReadMeLattice]

I was actually thinking that the drag queen seemed really sweet compared to what Sophia usually encounters...at least she looked happy. Poor Sophia :(

Edited January 10, 2018 by Lm2162

[teapot]

17 minutes ago, eskimo said:

It's a toss up for me when it comes to who's worse, Farrah or Deb.  They express their crazy in different ways.  But when I think about actually spending time with either one of them, I'd much rather hang with Farrah.  I can deal with outright bitch much better than passive agressive Debz 'I don't understand what's wrong here', playing stupid bullshit.  I'd throw a ceramic mug at her head in no time.  Can. Not. Stand. That. Shit.  Never mind, it's not a toss-up.  Deb gets my vote for most irritating. 

I disagree.  I'd rather hang w/Debz OG, b/c she's kind of a narcissist, so she'd just talk to me the whole time about her "passion project", her fiancé, and everything that bugs her about her family. I'd just go "oh, really?  oh wow, oh that's cool, oh that's too bad..."  *sips wine* (we both like our wine)

I feel like with Farrah I'd be like, "oh, tomorrow's Monday" and she'd be like "What do you mean by that?  I am just trying to have a positive day and now you're having hate crimes talking about some other day altogether!"

[ReadMeLattice]

6 minutes ago, teapot said:

I disagree.  I'd rather hang w/Debz OG, b/c she's kind of a narcissist, so she'd just talk to me the whole time about her "passion project", her fiancé, and everything that bugs her about her family. I'd just go "oh, really?  oh wow, oh that's cool, oh that's too bad..."  *sips wine* (we both like our wine)

I feel like with Farrah I'd be like, "oh, tomorrow's Monday" and she'd be like "What do you mean by that?  I am just trying to have a positive day and now you're having hate crimes talking about some other day altogether!"

This "choice" is like one you'd be forced to make in one of the Saw movies, lol. "Do you want to saw off your arms with a dull rusty knife, or chew through your own ankle?"

[TeenMomAngerMgmt]

5 minutes ago, teapot said:

I disagree.  I'd rather hang w/Debz OG, b/c she's kind of a narcissist, so she'd just talk to me the whole time about her "passion project", her fiancé, and everything that bugs her about her family. I'd just go "oh, really?  oh wow, oh that's cool, oh that's too bad..."  *sips wine* (we both like our wine)

I feel like with Farrah I'd be like, "oh, tomorrow's Monday" and she'd be like "What do you mean by that?  I am just trying to have a positive day and now you're having hate crimes talking about some other day altogether!"

I disagree. Farrah doesn’t do that with the average Joe. She does that with her parents (particularly her mom). She’s shown the ability to be civil with people (her Froco employees when she went to Australia, the creepy realtor, her dad and Amy, etc.). Her mom just brings out the worst in her. I think the anger for her comes from the fact that Debra refuses to ever see anything wrong in what she did. The Family Therapy show with Dr. Jenn was really illuminating because Debra refused to admit to shit she did on camera. We all saw her hit Farrah. You know that’s not the first time it happened. And she had the temerity to sit there and lie about it. I think that’s why Farrah insists on “being real” and being blunt with her mom. She knows she will be gaslighted by her otherwise. 

[teapot]

3 minutes ago, TeenMomAngerMgmt said:

I disagree. Farrah doesn’t do that with the average Joe. She does that with her parents (particularly her mom). She’s shown the ability to be civil with people (her Froco employees when she went to Australia, the creepy realtor, her dad and Amy, etc.). Her mom just brings out the worst in her. I think the anger for her comes from the fact that Debra refuses to ever see anything wrong in what she did. The Family Therapy show with Dr. Jenn was really illuminating because Debra refused to admit to shit she did on camera. We all saw her hit Farrah. You know that’s not the first time it happened. And she had the temerity to sit there and lie about it. I think that’s why Farrah insists on “being real” and being blunt with her mom. She knows she will be gaslighted by her otherwise. 

hmm, I seem to recall her snapping at the producer during Soph's surf lesson, snapping at Soph during the pedicure, firing the Froco employee b/c she needed help cleaning the machine...

[Rebecca]

On 12/11/2017 at 11:32 AM, druzy said:

Where is Boo Boo?

That guy is straight up ugly. I don’t know if it’s just leftover disgust from Matt but this new guy gives me the creeps just looking at him.

On 12/15/2017 at 2:25 PM, CaliforniaLove said:

I wonder if they'll name their son Glen, or Lennon? 

Why not Glen Lennon Glennon? See: Leah Leann...

On 12/20/2017 at 10:16 AM, druzy said:

Horrible point in your life? You and New Matt are on a road trip.

“Keeping a child happy”? She was never doing that, it’s all Gary and Kristina who “keep her happy.” Also? The main point of parenthood isn't to “keep a child happy” it’s to raise them to be well adjusted, productive and self sufficient adults and Amber, you have done none of that. I’m stopping myself but I want to go on and on because she’s just so fucking stupid and selfish.

On 12/20/2017 at 11:59 AM, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

What does Amber think those of us with full custody of our kids do when we are in a "bad place"? We fucking fake it the best we can, get out of bed, get our kids' breakfast ready, etc, etc. Maybe sometimes we have to walk into the laundry room while the kids watch tv to wipe away a tear and have a pep talk with ourselves about getting it together. But we keep going.  What would Amber doing - God forbid - something happened to. Gary and she got full custody of Leah? What would she do then when she's depressed? What will she do when she's depressed and has this new baby and Andrew leaves? 

I really wish Amber would bank her TM away to pay fora live-in nanny.....

My closest friend works 40 hours a week (emotionally draining, as a social worker), is in school getting her Masters in SW, has a 20 hour a week unpaid internship in the ventilation ward of a hospital (also good times), has her father dying (stage 4) of multiple cancers and she is SOLELY responsible for ALL his appointments, medications etc because there’s no one else to do it and still manages to be an amazing mother to her three kids. She even manages to squeeze in time to make it to things like their classroom Christmas parties and all three are in several classes and things after school and on weekends that she has to bring them to. Whenever I feel stressed I think of all she is dealing with. Amber can shut the fuck up about her poor wittle breakup with a grifter conman that got called out years ago. She is so unbelievably selfish and self absorbed to think her supposed “depression” from breaking up with Matt any sort of excuse for not being involved in her daughter’s life. She has the kind of schedule where she could be there for EVERY event Leah has. 

On 12/21/2017 at 0:25 PM, mamadrama said:

You know, if Amber would just step back and say, "Kristina has stepped in as Leah's full-time mother figure. I have realized that motherhood is a responsibility that I am not prepared to accept at this time so I am lucky that there are so many people in Leah's life who love her and want to take care of her. I will continue to have a relationship with my daughter, and we will continue to bond, just in a different capacity." I would actually be fine with that. In fact, I would probably respect her. It's the fact that she honest-to-God THINKS she is an awesome mother and pretends to care that pisses me off. 

Me too and I think it would healthier for Leah for Amber to just quit pretending. Stop letting her think that Amber is going to show up on Wednesday when Amber knows she’s not going to.

On 12/22/2017 at 9:41 AM, Snarky McSnarky said:

I guess NewMatt always had a fantasy of driving an RV across America, and Amber's MTV money is fulfilling that fantasy.  She didn't know what an RV was until he came along.

It’s a “car” with a bed! Her dream.

52 minutes ago, eskimo said:

It's a toss up for me when it comes to who's worse, Farrah or Deb.  They express their crazy in different ways.  But when I think about actually spending time with either one of them, I'd much rather hang with Farrah.  I can deal with outright bitch much better than passive agressive Debz 'I don't understand what's wrong here', playing stupid bullshit.  I'd throw a ceramic mug at her head in no time.  Can. Not. Stand. That. Shit.  Never mind, it's not a toss-up.  Deb gets my vote for most irritating. 

I feel like Farrah wouldn’t just be a bitch for no reason to random people but I feel like Debra can’t control her crazy and would act like that with anyone. So yeah, Farrah by a mile.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Rebecca

[Chickabiddy]

14 minutes ago, TeenMomAngerMgmt said:

I disagree. Farrah doesn’t do that with the average Joe. She does that with her parents (particularly her mom). She’s shown the ability to be civil with people (her Froco employees when she went to Australia, the creepy realtor, her dad and Amy, etc.).

Then why does Farrah have absolutely no friends or personal contacts with anyone other than direct family or people who are in her direct employ? She hates her parents, and they do seem honestly terrible, but she has to keep them around because she has absolutely no one else. Crazy Debra has managed to form a relationship with someone. David is terrible and awful, too, mind. But Farrah has absolutely no one, and for a girl who is reasonably pretty, young, financially comfortable and fame-ish, she should be able to attract someone to be her friend or her boo. That fact that Farrah has turned Sophia into her pet/bff speaks volumes about her social isolation from the rest of humanity.

[ReadMeLattice]

25 minutes ago, TeenMomAngerMgmt said:

I disagree. Farrah doesn’t do that with the average Joe. She does that with her parents (particularly her mom). She’s shown the ability to be civil with people (her Froco employees when she went to Australia, the creepy realtor, her dad and Amy, etc.). Her mom just brings out the worst in her. I think the anger for her comes from the fact that Debra refuses to ever see anything wrong in what she did. The Family Therapy show with Dr. Jenn was really illuminating because Debra refused to admit to shit she did on camera. We all saw her hit Farrah. You know that’s not the first time it happened. And she had the temerity to sit there and lie about it. I think that’s why Farrah insists on “being real” and being blunt with her mom. She knows she will be gaslighted by her otherwise. 

This. As cray as Farrah acts and as much as I'd never want to be around her...that Family Therapy show really revealed Deb to be one scary, almost pathological liar. Farrah actually did (shockingly) admit that she had done some things wrong or could be better. Deb couldn't even for one second, even for TV. Her whole identity is based around being a perfect victim/martyr. People like that terrify me. Farrah is a huge bitch but she doesn't fundamentally scare me. 

Deb reminds me of Amber in that if Farrah was molested (which, honestly, sometimes I think she was based on things that have been said by her and their family?) I feel like she'd hide it and lie about it until the day she died if it served her for some narcissistic reason (very much like a Mommy Dearest). While Farrah is inarguably a huge bitch...I honestly can't see her doing that. Like, say (god forbid) a boyfriend of hers started mistreating Sophia. I feel like he'd be gone that day. I could be totally wrong. Just my feeling.

OK enough defending Farrah, I have to go shower and forget this happened.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Lm2162

[Rebecca]

4 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

Then why does Farrah have absolutely no friends or personal contacts with anyone other than direct family or people who are in her direct employ? She hates her parents, and they do seem honestly terrible, but she has to keep them around because she has absolutely no one else. Crazy Debra has managed to form a relationship with someone. David is terrible and awful, too, mind. But Farrah has absolutely no one, and for a girl who is reasonably pretty, young, financially comfortable and fame-ish, she should be able to attract someone to be her friend or her boo. That fact that Farrah has turned Sophia into her pet/bff speaks volumes about her social isolation from the rest of humanity.

I think a large part of it is that Farrah has trust issues stemming from Debra gaslighting her so much and from all the general dysfunction  around her her whole life. I don’t think David being around means any sort of win for Debra. I also think Farrah could get her own creepy guy if she wanted. I think Farrah is a very closed off person. It’s one part no one is exactly dying to hang with her and one part Farrah is closed off to allowing anyone in. She was never modeled functional relationships.

[Chickabiddy]

Just now, Rebecca said:

I think a large part of it is that Farrah has trust issues stemming from Debra gaslighting her so much and from all the general dysfunction  around her her whole life. I don’t think David being around means any sort of win for Debra. I also think Farrah could get her own creepy guy if she wanted. I think Farrah is a very closed off person. It’s one part no one is exactly dying to hang with her and one part Farrah is closed off to allowing anyone in. She was never modeled functional relationships.

Neither were Tyler and Caitlynn, but they manage to develop a social circle regardless. 

[Rebecca]

2 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

Neither were Tyler and Caitlynn, but they manage to develop a social circle regardless. 

I don’t see them hanging out with anyone lately. Have we even seen that one large friend in the last several seasons? I don’t see them hanging out with great people regularly. We also have seen Farrah with friends throughout the years. I think the only people with real, actual friends on this show are Maci and Chelsea.

I also think Catelynn and Tyler didn’t have the same type of issues in childhood that Farrah did. They had their own, for sure, but they weren’t the same as Farrah’s and didn’t result in the same dysfunctions so there’s no comparison.

[ReadMeLattice]

9 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

Neither were Tyler and Caitlynn, but they manage to develop a social circle regardless. 

They actually don't seem to be too close to anybody to me, except Cate has a few people she parties with. Still, everyone deals with trauma differently, and they always had each other, which I think is the only thing that stopped them from becoming hardcore addicts or being incarcerated themselves. I think that's why their relationship with one another is so codependent now. 

Interesting to compare, as @Rebecca says. Those two weren't really isolated or manipulated, they were abused in totally different ways. Farrah's home seemed more like suburban behind-closed-doors deep psychological issues. The kind of bad marital fights where you then have to go to church and pretend they never happened. Tyler and Cate grew up with people who didn't care who saw their toxicity. They were considered 'trashy' anyway, so they had nothing to hide. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Lm2162

[Rebecca]

Thinking about the childhoods of Farrah and Catelynn and Tyler has made me feel worse for Farrah. Catelynn and Tyler can (sadly) find plenty of people who were raised crappily by addicts and who have dealt with all that comes along with that and get support and validation. I don’t think many people were raised by someone like Debra (and Michael) so she can’t even relate to anyone who may have grown up in a similar situation because they’re just not as available.

I realize I’m coming across as a Farrah fan girl and that’s not it at all. I just think she’s not as cut and dry as I once thought and I’m feeling a lot of compassion for her because I think Debra is an absolute lunatic, unlike any I’ve ever seen.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Rebecca

[StatisticalOutlier]

10 hours ago, Rebecca said:

To say nothing of the fact they weren’t even speaking or in contact when [Daddy Derek] died..

True, but I got the impression that Farrah thought the only reason the door was closed was that he'd died. 

 

3 hours ago, eskimo said:

I think Farrah actually was on a serious hunt for a husband for a long time.  Remember that trip she took with that one guy to see his family and she was so horrible that they didn't even come home together?  There was a scene with them in a paddle boat or something where she was telling him that she was looking to get married and wasn't interested in wasting her time if that wasn't in the future.  It took him (and us) by surprise because they had just barely started seeing each other.  I think she's matured to the point where that is no longer her focus, but there was a time when the only thing that stopped her from jumping into a marriage was her unbearable personality. 

That trip with the guy was to Austin, where she ended up moving, after he ditched her at the party and she had to rustle up a ride to the airport the next day.  Not sure why I'm pointing that out, except to say she just does things that seem odd to me.

 

3 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

She screamed that she was suicidal at a nail salon in front of her granddaughter. I don't think that's because she's being mistreated by Farrah; the woman is just plumb crazy.

I agree she's plumb crazy, but I don't remember her screaming that she was suicidal, but more like talking and crying (as usual), and part of it was that she was suicidal.  Of course within Sophia's earshot, so totally not okay (not to mention the poor nail technicians).  But one thing that always gets me about Debra is her flat affect combined with over enunciation and a sing-songy element.

 

12 hours ago, Blissfool said:

My heart breaks when seeing Tyler's relationship with Butch

Mine, too, and I don't even have any addicts in my family.  And while I feel bad if Cate felt she was forced to give up Carly in order to keep Tyler, I still have to hand it to him for doing whatever it took to get that kid out of that family, especially when he was too young to have to be making such decisions and having to fight the family over it.  So my heart breaks for him, and I'm proud of what he did, and I understand why he's such a mess.  Yet I still can't bring myself to like him.

 

13 hours ago, mamadrama said:

My father-in-law used to address letters to my husband (you know, his son) as:

Mr. Mamadrama, MA

Since I don't know the people involved...is there any chance his dad was proud of his son's master's degree and letting him know it?  Or his dad was "reminding" him that he'd been the one to pay for it, like an inside joke?  Or was he getting a dig in at you if you don't have a master's degree?

When somebody puts EMBA on her own wedding invitation or J.D. on his own checks, I have massive clarity on the motivation. 

[Tatum]

On 1/9/2018 at 4:29 AM, CofCinci said:

MTV should have left this scene in:

http://www.mtv.com/video-clips/9z4kwo/teen-mom-sneak-peek-wedding-woes

 

So...Taylor was not invited? Geez, Mackenzie, thought you were "born and bred with class"- anyone knows that inviting only one half of a married couple is extremely rude. Plus, as convinced as Mack is that Maci is still in love with Ryan, you'd think she'd want Taylor there.

 

The blond in the front seat is named Katie, and I am pretty sure that is Katie from the Being Maci special in 2013, who lived in the frat house with Maci and Maci paid her rent. None of Maci's high school friends liked her and pegged her for a user. I am surprised to see they are still in touch, as I thought Maci had commented at some point that they were no longer friends.

[Tatum]

2 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

This. As cray as Farrah acts and as much as I'd never want to be around her...that Family Therapy show really revealed Deb to be one scary, almost pathological liar. Farrah actually did (shockingly) admit that she had done some things wrong or could be better. Deb couldn't even for one second, even for TV. Her whole identity is based around being a perfect victim/martyr. People like that terrify me. Farrah is a huge bitch but she doesn't fundamentally scare me. 

Deb reminds me of Amber in that if Farrah was molested (which, honestly, sometimes I think she was based on things that have been said by her and their family?) I feel like she'd hide it and lie about it until the day she died if it served her for some narcissistic reason (very much like a Mommy Dearest). While Farrah is inarguably a huge bitch...I honestly can't see her doing that. Like, say (god forbid) a boyfriend of hers started mistreating Sophia. I feel like he'd be gone that day. I could be totally wrong. Just my feeling.

OK enough defending Farrah, I have to go shower and forget this happened.

I agree with you. I am not a fan of Farrah, but I think she absolutely would intervene if there was any evidence of abuse against Sophia. Amber and Jenelle I think would just pretend it wasn't happening, or accuse their child(ren) of doing something to cause it. As far as what Deb would do? Unclear. I think the scariest thing about Deb is that there is no consistency. Amber and Jenelle are consistently shitty, disinterested mothers. Deb I think would have days, weeks, or even months of normal, motherly, behavior, and all the sudden, a switch would get flipped and the crazy would come out, with no rhyme or reason as to why.

 

Someone on TWoP once theorized that that was why Farrah was so shitty to Deb- at least when Deb flips her wig, and Farrah has been a bitch to her, Farrah can feel like she brought it on herself (like, a control thing) vs. Deb just flipping out on her when she hasn't done anything wrong.

[ghoulina]

18 hours ago, Lusterleaf said:

Was it just me or did Ryan seem high at the restaurant with Mac?

I thought so. Ryan being all sweet and effusive is a sure sign, to me, that he's on something. 

 

17 hours ago, Rebecca said:

You’re misjudging the allure of even third string fame to some people and Mackenzie is extra thirsty. Look at her blog, etc. She craves an audience and her marriage to Ryan provides one. I actually have decided that I don’t think she cares that no one likes her, she just wants us paying attention regardless. I also feel like she thinks she’s going to get her own spinoff or something.

Yup. I've said this before, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mack had sent in a 16&Pregnant audition with Hudson. She seems like she thought they should have all been together from the beginning (tm Meri Brown). 

 

16 hours ago, Soobs said:

Felt a little bad for Cate and Tyler. Butch may not be long for this world. Drugs tend to catch up with a person after 50, healthwise and organwise too

Isn't that why Amber's father died so young? A lifetime of alcoholism and/or drug use? 

 

6 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I disagree- not that Farrah isn’t vile (she is), but I think Farrah is self aware and intelligent enough to know that a partnership/marriage like relationship is NOT for her so no use in pretending.

But she has pressured at least two guys to propose to her. Simon, for one. And then there was Daniel, the dude she was barely dating and was trying on rings with. 

 

5 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

Maybe I just see it differently because I watched them on that ridiculous family 'therapy' show. Debra is every bit as manipulative, angry and aggressive as Farrah, if not more. She learned from the best. There's no question that Farrah is vile as well and is on track to being just like her toxic mom, but I have to say that Debra makes my stomach turn. And I don't get where she took away her parents' independence. Debra is marrying a disgusting leech who clearly wants to screw her daughter and treats her horribly, started a variety of businesses on her own and with Farrah, and *is trying to have a rap career.* 

Farrah is louder, so she often comes off worse. But like you said, Deb is very manipulative. She's a shady bitch. She hasn't let the real anger come out on screen since the early days. Instead she does this soft, pouty victim thing. I think Farrah's vile behavior is mostly reactive, while Deb is intentionally fucking with her....and others. 

 

3 hours ago, Snarky McSnarky said:

I would be more impressed with Maci and Taylor if they needed to rent storage space for inventory.  Renting a closet-sized office in a full service suite for a mail order business seems unnecessary, even if their suite mates are "smart people."

THIS. The first thing I thought when I saw that office was, "And they're going to fit this excess inventory WHERE?" I think they just wanted an office so they could say they're actually GOING somewhere during the day, and have an excuse to drop the kids off. Doesn't hurt that it's one of those newer, party-environment type of spaces. 

2 hours ago, Chickabiddy said:

Neither were Tyler and Caitlynn, but they manage to develop a social circle regardless. 

But they're totally different people. Not everyone responds to similar circumstances the same. Cate and Ty were actually, IMO, on the path to be pretty decent people.....I think this show fucked them up for life. They seemed to have more laid back, positive personalities from the start. I never saw that with Farrah. 

[Chickabiddy]

10 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

But they're totally different people. Not everyone responds to similar circumstances the same. Cate and Ty were actually, IMO, on the path to be pretty decent people.....I think this show fucked them up for life. They seemed to have more laid back, positive personalities from the start. I never saw that with Farrah. 

But that's my point.  Farrah's terrible childhood as a cause for her being a totally shit person only takes her so far. C and T also had terrible, abusive upbringings, but as you say above in bold - they have ladi back, positive personalities - qualities you never saw with Farrah. I can cut Farrah some slack for a tough childhood, but my only argument is that she would still be an unpleasant harpy because of who she is at her core, and not simply because she had a tough childhood. 

Farrah's childhood traumas are no excuse for her to behave as rudely as she does to her producers - making them pee outside in a port a potty, etc. Farrah and her apologists can blame her stank personality on her parents till the cows come home, but that won't change the fact that Farrah is going to to be isolated and alone for the rest of her life. She's like a junior Bethenney Frankel at this point. 

[teapot]

15 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

 She's like a junior Bethenney Frankel at this point. 

but even Bethenny has besties from her boarding-school days that are still around!  and she's been married a couple of times.  Farrah's worse.  (I can't help it, guys, the hate is strong...)

[Tatum]

27 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

But that's my point.  Farrah's terrible childhood as a cause for her being a totally shit person only takes her so far. C and T also had terrible, abusive upbringings, but as you say above in bold - they have ladi back, positive personalities - qualities you never saw with Farrah. I can cut Farrah some slack for a tough childhood, but my only argument is that she would still be an unpleasant harpy because of who she is at her core, and not simply because she had a tough childhood. 

Farrah's childhood traumas are no excuse for her to behave as rudely as she does to her producers - making them pee outside in a port a potty, etc. Farrah and her apologists can blame her stank personality on her parents till the cows come home, but that won't change the fact that Farrah is going to to be isolated and alone for the rest of her life. She's like a junior Bethenney Frankel at this point. 

She hasn't been a very nice person in her 8 year reality run, but I do think she is marginally nicer this year than she has been in previous years. Which is progress none of her TM co-horts can say, as they've become more obnoxious each passing year (well, I'd say Maci has reached a stable level of obnoxiousness and is neither better nor worse year over year. But C&T and Amber are definitely getting worse).

[lezlers]

3 hours ago, Rebecca said:

I don’t see them hanging out with anyone lately. Have we even seen that one large friend in the last several seasons? I don’t see them hanging out with great people regularly. We also have seen Farrah with friends throughout the years. I think the only people with real, actual friends on this show are Maci and Chelsea.

I also think Catelynn and Tyler didn’t have the same type of issues in childhood that Farrah did. They had their own, for sure, but they weren’t the same as Farrah’s and didn’t result in the same dysfunctions so there’s no comparison.

Kailyn has also had the same friends through most of the show (lord only knows how she's managed THAT.)

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, Chickabiddy said:

But that's my point.  Farrah's terrible childhood as a cause for her being a totally shit person only takes her so far. C and T also had terrible, abusive upbringings, but as you say above in bold - they have ladi back, positive personalities - qualities you never saw with Farrah. I can cut Farrah some slack for a tough childhood, but my only argument is that she would still be an unpleasant harpy because of who she is at her core, and not simply because she had a tough childhood. 

Farrah's childhood traumas are no excuse for her to behave as rudely as she does to her producers - making them pee outside in a port a potty, etc. Farrah and her apologists can blame her stank personality on her parents till the cows come home, but that won't change the fact that Farrah is going to to be isolated and alone for the rest of her life. She's like a junior Bethenney Frankel at this point. 

I think there's a genetic component as well.  Deb's kind of crazy HAS to be the result of one or more mood disorders.  Those are typically hereditary.

[GreatKazu]

5 hours ago, TeenMomAngerMgmt said:

I disagree. Farrah doesn’t do that with the average Joe. She does that with her parents (particularly her mom). She’s shown the ability to be civil with people (her Froco employees when she went to Australia, the creepy realtor, her dad and Amy, etc.). Her mom just brings out the worst in her. I think the anger for her comes from the fact that Debra refuses to ever see anything wrong in what she did. The Family Therapy show with Dr. Jenn was really illuminating because Debra refused to admit to shit she did on camera. We all saw her hit Farrah. You know that’s not the first time it happened. And she had the temerity to sit there and lie about it. I think that’s why Farrah insists on “being real” and being blunt with her mom. She knows she will be gaslighted by her otherwise. 

I really liked Farrah in the Being Simon special. 

[Rebecca]

3 hours ago, Tatum said:

Someone on TWoP once theorized that that was why Farrah was so shitty to Deb- at least when Deb flips her wig, and Farrah has been a bitch to her, Farrah can feel like she brought it on herself (like, a control thing) vs. Deb just flipping out on her when she hasn't done anything wrong.

That really makes a lot of sense, especially as something developed as a coping mechanism in childhood that has carried over to adulthood.

2 hours ago, lezlers said:

Kailyn has also had the same friends through most of the show (lord only knows how she's managed THAT.)

A few years ago I would have agreed but now it appears she has lost a lot of those long standing friendships. Now we see new asskissers like Sterling and that other chick and her old friends, like Peach, hate her. 

I still maintain that the childhood trauma that occurred with Catelynn and Tyler cannot be compared to Farrah’s because the situations are way too different. For instance, April has no problem saying she could’ve done better (even though she wouldn’t apologize for it). She acknowledges that she is an addict and things were rough. Debra literally smacked Farrah on film and then denied it ever even happened. I can just imagine her smacking or whatever a young Farrah and then saying, “I’m a good Christian, we don’t believe in that, it never happened.” In my opinion Debra  probably did things like that all the time. Gaslighting.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Rebecca

[AirQuotes]

What was it when Farrah bought her own engagement ring "from" Simon?

[eskimo]

6 hours ago, teapot said:

I disagree.  I'd rather hang w/Debz OG, b/c she's kind of a narcissist, so she'd just talk to me the whole time about her "passion project", her fiancé, and everything that bugs her about her family. I'd just go "oh, really?  oh wow, oh that's cool, oh that's too bad..."  *sips wine* (we both like our wine)

I feel like with Farrah I'd be like, "oh, tomorrow's Monday" and she'd be like "What do you mean by that?  I am just trying to have a positive day and now you're having hate crimes talking about some other day altogether!"

Are you having a hate crime right now by disagreeing with me?!? I'm just trying to put some positivity into my dinner.  I'm going to severance myself from this discussion now.   

Seriously though, I'll take bitched-out-for-no-reason over passive-agressive-pity-party any day of the week.  Plus with Farrah I'd get to keep my mind sharp by using context clues to decipher her word salads.  But like Lm2162 said, it's really a choice similar to that of a Saw movie, which torture do you prefer?  Lol 

So you take Deb and I'll take Farrah.  Someone else will have to take Soph.  Preferably someone with a child psychology background.  Any takers?

[GreatKazu]

Farrah also admitted to hitting Deb at the minute mark: 

http://www.wetpaint.com/farrah-abrahams-mom-debra-denies-513211/

[IDreamofJoaquin]

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 4:54 AM, Booger666 said:

Amber crying over the fact that new Matt ordered old Matt’s favorite soup when there are other soup choices?!?!

  I mean how many soups are there to order at IHOP anyways?   

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 6:50 AM, Pepper Mostly said:

Amber: "I'm so excited for the VMA's because its the first time that Andrew and I will appear publicly as a couple".

That made me want to barf.  Nobody gives a shit.  It's one of the things one of the girls say that I immediately think "I can't wait to go to the boards and laugh about that". 

Andrew is tall as fuck though.  How tall is he?   6'7 ??   I wonder if Amber actually knew she was pregnant when she took the shot.

 

I thought Tyler had a small epiphany about not going to the award show.  I actually thought he might have had some self reflection about what a dork he would look like there.

 

I am not sure Ryan was high during his apology speech.  I work in social services and it just made me tired. If people work hard to get help and they slip up, that is common.  But his speech is something I have heard 100x.   If he was genuine then good for him.  But I can't tell from the rest of the season.   Mack gets uglier every scene.

 

Maci and Tyler's office space is such a waste.  They need a bigger place to store and organize their inventory.  The lady was trying to sell them on the fact that they had an ice cream party?  What a way to create their EMPIRE. 

[leighroda]

It’s your friendly neighborhood Leighroda, RN!

My sister got her mba in an executive program I wish she watched teen Mom so I could exclusively call her EMBA (ps that autocorrected to embarrass), and hers was not fancy like someone described, they usually went to a pub after class) she was in her early 30’s (I don’t remember when exactly she got it) and was a full time manager of a Sony store while she was doing it, I don’t think her job paid for it because she didn’t stay with them after, ill have to ask her.

I did ask a while back when it initially came out that Deb put EMBA in her wedding invites if there was any prestige in saying EMBA (I’m a nurse, all I know is business people can be braggy, so I thought maybe in their circles it happened more often) and she said no, like it’s been stated several times already all it means is that she worked in the business while earning it. I’m texting her right now and I sent her a pic of the invite and she said that’s bad, and then she laughed because EMBA is bigger than dr, so I looked, it’s just in caps while dr is “Dr”. She also just reiterated (I don’t remember who said this earlier sorry otherwise I’d credit you)  that the E is just the manner in which she got it but her title is MBA, the only place where she lists EMBA is her actual resume, and she rarely signs anything, even work related with MBA/EMBA. 

I joked after I got my nursing license that I was signing everything with RN, even credit card receipts, but alas I didn’t do it (partially because I hate making cursive “r”, also my real last name is long so I don’t even sign all of those letters, I just scribble. why would I add more). Now with the use of paper charts I never sign my name with it so I forget on work documents where I’m suppose to. 

Also, thanks a lot newmatt, now I want French onion soup. 

Slightly off topic, but I was on a dating website recently... I am actually not working at the moment (it’s a long story), and it’s always really awkward when they ask about work, I mean on one hand I get it, it’s a red flag that I potentially am not responsible or whatever, but honestly, as long as I’m taking care of myself financially or otherwise it’s not really anyone’s business... and I feel like it’s people like Amber that make it harder on people like me. A couple weeks ago a guy messaged me, he asked about my work so I told him I’m a nurse by trade but I’m not working right now. In his response he seemed overly concerned with my finances he asked if I had a “ETA” on a new job, wtf!? Who asks that? He also asked if I rent or own my house, and that’s when I ordered the cat lady starter kit 

[CofCinci]

1 hour ago, AirQuotes said:

What was it when Farrah bought her own engagement ring "from" Simon?

Simon is Farrah’s pimp/handler. The ring most likely came from one of her wealthy clients and she passed it off as an engagement ring. 

[ReadMeLattice]

27 minutes ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

  I mean how many soups are there to order at IHOP anyways?   

 

LOL this reminds me of how Kailyn accused Javi of just trying to recreate their love or whatever by going jetskiing with a new girlfriend. Because you can only jetski once. With your soulmate. 

[MargeGunderson]

23 hours ago, TheRealT said:

 

 If a 23-year-old woman is going to sell her soul for financial security, she should probably be looking for a better situation than that. 

Poor Mac, too stupid to be a good gold digger.

[bounnatalie]

This probably was mentioned before but it has been bugging me. Andrew/New Matt seems like an amalgamation of what he thinks we should like. The whole situation seems extremely calculating. He saw her on the set of MBC and watched her-is that akin to stalking? Noting how best to win her over.  Claiming to "really like her" on MBC but honestly, how can you really like someone in that situation. Then he pulled a Matt, missed his plane, or whatever. Clearly he did some research, watching Teen Mom 2 (since it was probably airing at that time), trolling message boards and noting what goes over big with the audience and what doesn't.  I don't know, he doesn't seem that into her.

[Calm81]

22 hours ago, alexa said:

Well, mtv is saving me from myself--I might not be able to stream episodes on mtv any longer.  It used to be choosing xfinity for your cable provider would simply let you log into the mtv site with your mtv log in, but now they removed xfinity as an option and all of the other cable companies require you go to their cable page to log in.  I was able to watch this episode with the 24 hour free viewing, but that will be the end of it (I don't have cable anymore--I just use amazon fire tv and stream).  This is actually a good thing.  I kept watching even though all of these girls annoy me to no end.

As for this episode, it is kind of sickening how Amber gives her new man those lovesick eyes.  I just don't need to see that.  Ryan is still clearly messed up.  Tyler was actually okay to me this episode as he was dealing with some real life stuff, and overall I think he does the best he can with it.  I can't remember much but I do remember thinking that it is clear how different Gary's life and house is from Amber's.  They show this perfectly clean and organized farm and farmhouse, and then there is Amber with no real life.  I actually thought Farrah did pretty well with her mom...she got annoyed with her and spoke up but overall is much calmer than she used to be.  I would never want to be around Debra ever.  She is like a baby talking robot of oddness.

Me too! I was using xfinity as my sign on and now there’s no option. I’m glad I can still read the snark on here but it sucks that they’re making it hard for people to stream online. I only use Amazon Stick, Netflix and YouTube for TV. Cable companies are catching on and starting to make things difficult for people that “say no more to cable” since the prices were OUTRAGEOUS! They would purposely put one popular station on separate pricing tiers to get families to buy all of the pricey packages. Screw then! 

Unless any of you awesome people have an alternative to us, sad xfinity sign on users (I was using a friends sign on) this week was my last episode as I used MTVs 24 hour pass to watch it. I’m assuming I could squeeze out an extra episode or two by using family’s emails but that would mean I would have to tell them I watch this show. Ain’t nobody got time for that! LMAO ? 

[kitkat343]

Quote

If a 23-year-old woman is going to sell her soul for financial security, she should probably be looking for a better situation than that. 

Poor Mac, too stupid to be a good gold digger.

I know the first poster to discuss her failures as a gold digger noted that she lives in Chattanooga, but honestly that's about a 2 hour drive or bus from Atlanta.  Maybe this is because I lived in NYC in my 20s when I was dating, but I really find it hard to believe that Mac could do much better than Ryan if she is a gold digger.  She's not very pretty, she doesn't have a career, doesn't seem to have any hobbies or interests besides wedding planning and she has a divorce and a kid at 23.  If she were a good, kind person it might be possible for her to marry a wealthy man (but she'd have a lot of competition from attractive girls) but I just don't see her having much to offer.  Being married to Ryan must be a disaster, but I think it was that or she'd be lucky to find a hardworking, kind man who works a minimum wage job (and even there I think she'd have a hard time competing with other women who are kinder and prettier than her).  

She's young, so if she has any working brain cells, she'll learn from this experience and after her second divorce she'll try to find a man like Gary - minus the Teen Mom money- but even then I think she'd have not the easiest time catching him because I don't see her as having much to offer besides a perma-bitch face.  

Edited January 11, 2018 by kitkat343

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, Calm81 said:

Me too! I was using xfinity as my sign on and now there’s no option. I’m glad I can still read the snark on here but it sucks that they’re making it hard for people to stream online. I only use Amazon Stick, Netflix and YouTube for TV. Cable companies are catching on and starting to make things difficult for people that “say no more to cable” since the prices were OUTRAGEOUS! They would purposely put one popular station on separate pricing tiers to get families to buy all of the pricey packages. Screw then! 

Unless any of you awesome people have an alternative to us, sad xfinity sign on users (I was using a friends sign on) this week was my last episode as I used MTVs 24 hour pass to watch it. I’m assuming I could squeeze out an extra episode or two by using family’s emails but that would mean I would have to tell them I watch this show. Ain’t nobody got time for that! LMAO ? 

I cut the cord, too, so I've been trying to find ways to watch it. We have Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, and Starz but it's still MUCH less than the $200+ we were paying for cable. I've started paying $1.99 per episode on Vudu so that I can snark along with you guys. (Although I've only paid for the episodes that sound like I might be missing something.)

[alexa]

Last time we discussed watching episodes without cable someone posted a link to the person's twitter account that posts a lot of the clips.  We see them here a lot, but I can't remember the name.  Maybe someone can chime in.  I found it the other day but I can't right now.  

[Tatum]

55 minutes ago, kitkat343 said:

I know the first poster to discuss her failures as a gold digger noted that she lives in Chattanooga, but honestly that's about a 2 hour drive or bus from Atlanta.  Maybe this is because I lived in NYC in my 20s when I was dating, but I really find it hard to believe that Mac could do much better than Ryan if she is a gold digger.  She's not very pretty, she doesn't have a career, doesn't seem to have any hobbies or interests besides wedding planning and she has a divorce and a kid at 23.  If she were a good, kind person it might be possible for her to marry a wealthy man (but she'd have a lot of competition from attractive girls) but I just don't see her having much to offer.  Being married to Ryan must be a disaster, but I think it was that or she'd be lucky to find a hardworking, kind man who works a minimum wage job (and even there I think she'd have a hard time competing with other women who are kinder and prettier than her).  

She's young, so if she has any working brain cells, she'll learn from this experience and after her second divorce she'll try to find a man like Gary - minus the Teen Mom money- but even then I think she'd have not the easiest time catching him because I don't see her as having much to offer besides a perma-bitch face.  

Agreed. Ryan is unemployed with addiction issues and the personality of a hairbrush, but he brings a high income and D list notoriety to the table. Mack brings...honestly, I don't know what Mack brings. Every time someone on here asks what Mack sees in Ryan I have a hard time not pointing out that in my very humble opinion, the one that outkicked his or her coverage is Mack, not Ryan.

[druzy]

1 hour ago, alexa said:

Last time we discussed watching episodes without cable someone posted a link to the person's twitter account that posts a lot of the clips.  We see them here a lot, but I can't remember the name.  Maybe someone can chime in.  I found it the other day but I can't right now.  

@Calm81 @mamadrama @alexa

Ms Anon Mafioso™ posts the (commercial free) episodes the day after they air. Here is the link to her twitter account.

[lezlers]

13 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

  I mean how many soups are there to order at IHOP anyways?   

That made me want to barf.  Nobody gives a shit.  It's one of the things one of the girls say that I immediately think "I can't wait to go to the boards and laugh about that". 

Andrew is tall as fuck though.  How tall is he?   6'7 ??   I wonder if Amber actually knew she was pregnant when she took the shot.

 

I thought Tyler had a small epiphany about not going to the award show.  I actually thought he might have had some self reflection about what a dork he would look like there.

 

I am not sure Ryan was high during his apology speech.  I work in social services and it just made me tired. If people work hard to get help and they slip up, that is common.  But his speech is something I have heard 100x.   If he was genuine then good for him.  But I can't tell from the rest of the season.   Mack gets uglier every scene.

 

Maci and Tyler's office space is such a waste.  They need a bigger place to store and organize their inventory.  The lady was trying to sell them on the fact that they had an ice cream party?  What a way to create their EMPIRE. 

I loved when Maci was all "if anyone is wondering why Chattanooga is the prettiest city in the country, just come up here" while the camera pans to see....a very unimpressive cityscape.  Yeah, okay Maci.

[Rebecca]

11 hours ago, bounnatalie said:

This probably was mentioned before but it has been bugging me. Andrew/New Matt seems like an amalgamation of what he thinks we should like. The whole situation seems extremely calculating. He saw her on the set of MBC and watched her-is that akin to stalking? Noting how best to win her over.  Claiming to "really like her" on MBC but honestly, how can you really like someone in that situation. Then he pulled a Matt, missed his plane, or whatever. Clearly he did some research, watching Teen Mom 2 (since it was probably airing at that time), trolling message boards and noting what goes over big with the audience and what doesn't.  I don't know, he doesn't seem that into her.

I don’t know why any guy would be. As toxic as their relationships was, I think Gary is the only guy she’s dated who actually was that into her and that ship sailed long ago. I don’t think she’s going to find a guy without ulterior motives. She has nothing to offer without her money/fame.

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

Agreed. Ryan is unemployed with addiction issues and the personality of a hairbrush, but he brings a high income and D list notoriety to the table. Mack brings...honestly, I don't know what Mack brings. Every time someone on here asks what Mack sees in Ryan I have a hard time not pointing out that in my very humble opinion, the one that outkicked his or her coverage is Mack, not Ryan.

Truth. Ryan is like Amber except he is better looking and has a better family (at least on paper) but Mackenzie brings nothing. I guess it could be argued she is bringing some job security because lots of people seem into hating her and it’s possibly bringing more viewers. But I doubt Ryan ever thought about that. I literally don’t understand why he “remarried” her even. He’s way less into her than any girlfriend we’ve seen him with. You’d think he’d just say hell no to the “second wedding” and if that makes her want a divorce or something, good.

[lezlers]

13 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Simon is Farrah’s pimp/handler. The ring most likely came from one of her wealthy clients and she passed it off as an engagement ring. 

Where did you hear/see this?  You speak with such authority.  I think she actually did buy it herself, in a sad attempt at a storyline that season.

[mamadrama]

3 minutes ago, lezlers said:

I loved when Maci was all "if anyone is wondering why Chattanooga is the prettiest city in the country, just come up here" while the camera pans to see....a very unimpressive cityscape.  Yeah, okay Maci.

Ha ha, that WAS funny. Chattanooga IS actually a very pretty town and surrounded by some gorgeous countryside. There are lots of views of the city that they could show to exemplify this. I think it's hilarious that they choose not to. 

[Tatum]

24 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

I don’t know why any guy would be. As toxic as their relationships was, I think Gary is the only guy she’s dated who actually was that into her and that ship sailed long ago. I don’t think she’s going to find a guy without ulterior motives. She has nothing to offer without her money/fame.

Truth. Ryan is like Amber except he is better looking and has a better family (at least on paper) but Mackenzie brings nothing. I guess it could be argued she is bringing some job security because lots of people seem into hating her and it’s possibly bringing more viewers. But I doubt Ryan ever thought about that. I literally don’t understand why he “remarried” her even. He’s way less into her than any girlfriend we’ve seen him with. You’d think he’d just say hell no to the “second wedding” and if that makes her want a divorce or something, good.

MTV paid them for filming the wedding, on top of whatever regular salary he receives. I suspect Ryan wanted the additional funds for drug money. Mack probably agreed to look the other way because she wanted a wedding and a continued storyline.

[Ljohnson1987]

They're nothing but seat fillers. These girls act like they're going to the VMAS because they're something special. 

Also, if MTV is going to fire Farrah for doing porn, they should fire her for good. Instead of this 'We need Farrah drama, so we'll fake fire her, because she does porn'. 

[Calm81]

3 hours ago, druzy said:

@Calm81 @mamadrama @alexa

Ms Anon Mafioso™ posts the (commercial free) episodes the day after they air. Here is the link to her twitter account.

If I could kiss you I would!!! ? However, it’s Teen Mom and not the walking dead so a virtual high five is better lmao ? 

[StatisticalOutlier]

16 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

That made me want to barf.  Nobody gives a shit. 

I wish that were true, but the money they make because of TM shilling tells me otherwise.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On 1/9/2018 at 8:23 PM, TheRealT said:

There isn't a lot of there there with Amber or Jenelle. They can't bond with their new soul mates over their mutual love of James Baldwin, or the classes they're taking about Eastern European politics, or the work they've been doing building an orphanage in Croatia. Or even what happened yesterday at their job at Walmart. So they bond over relationship stuff- what type of partner do you like/not like? what did you like/dislike about your ex? what are you looking for in a relationship? Etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam.

They can also bond about time spent in prison/jail, experiences in criminal court, experiences with probation officers, and domestic abuse (and substance abuse). #soulmates #justlikethenotebook 

On 1/10/2018 at 9:07 AM, Jaclyn88 said:

The biggest hum dinger of the episode is why Tyler didn't want to go to the VMA's with Cate?.. "it's not my thing."... okaaaaaaay Tyler. He might even beat out Javi with being a fame whore. I wonder what the objective was there.

Wait....did he not actually get invited? I thought I saw that up-thread. 

Cause if he *chose* not to go, it was so he could get some time away from Cate.  Not because I think he wanted to cheat on Cate or anything but just because I imagine she's exhausting to be around (and so is he). I mean, it would surprise me that Tyler the Ultimate FameHoe wouldn't go to the MTV Awards but I can see how having a breather from Catelynn would be even more enticing than an awards show you've been to before (although I suppose it would say A LOT that Time Without Catelynn > MTV Awards to Tyler's FameHoe self).

On 1/10/2018 at 0:10 PM, Rebecca said:

Thinking about the childhoods of Farrah and Catelynn and Tyler has made me feel worse for Farrah. Catelynn and Tyler can (sadly) find plenty of people who were raised crappily by addicts and who have dealt with all that comes along with that and get support and validation. I don’t think many people were raised by someone like Debra (and Michael) so she can’t even relate to anyone who may have grown up in a similar situation because they’re just not as available.

WOW. I think you've really hit on something big here in regards to Farrah, @Rebecca.  I totally agree.  Poor Farrah.  No, it doesn't excuse how vile she is, but that is really something profound about her upbringing and isolation/relationships to think about.  I have a lot of sympathy for child-Farrah growing up with Deb.  

Edited January 11, 2018 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[ghoulina]

5 hours ago, Rebecca said:

but Mackenzie brings nothing. I guess it could be argued she is bringing some job security because lots of people seem into hating her and it’s possibly bringing more viewers. But I doubt Ryan ever thought about that. I literally don’t understand why he “remarried” her even. He’s way less into her than any girlfriend we’ve seen him with. You’d think he’d just say hell no to the “second wedding” and if that makes her want a divorce or something, good.

I'm convinced that Ryan was so high through their entire relationship he didn't know what he was doing. He probably just thought she was a friendly hat. Now he's like, "Da fuq did I DO???"