S03.E09: Nathaniel Gets the Message!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Rebecca discovers the powers and limitations of altruism as a new, unexpected bromance forms between two other characters. Special episode featuring the 100th song milestone of the series.

Promo:

[Rinaldo]

I hope they eventually release a numbered song list showing how they get to 100. I maintain the Sporcle quiz on all the series' songs, and as of S3E8 I am up to 96, and that's including all the important reprises (less important ones, and other incidentals, count as bonus answers). I suppose they could be numbering the same as me, and have 4 new songs next week, but they've never yet had 4 brand-new songs in an episode.

[TheOtherOne]

The 100th Song:

http://ew.com/tv/2018/01/11/crazy-ex-girlfriend-100th-song-video/

[Roccos Brother]

I missed a huge chunk of the beginning of the episode, so I can't provide a full commentary, but I just wanted to say - THANK YOU writers for calling out entitled straight women that think it's okay to take over gay spaces!

[dubbel zout]

Father Brah—sorry, Daddy (hee)—Mrs. Hernandez's priest, right? That's the only connection I can think would bring him to the poker game.

The spikes on the ShredFlex 5000 had me rolling. And the insults White Josh and Nathaniel used to motivate each other were so mean but funny. I really like the friendship of WhiteJo and Nathaniel. I hope they keep it up.

[Rinaldo]

@Roccos Brother, Rachel tweeted that when they hit some gay bars to research the song, they saw exactly that phenomenon.

And @dubbel zout, it seems like everybody knows Father Brah; he seems well integrated into West Covina's social life. But Mrs. Hernandez works as a reason too.

I loved both of tonight's songs. (Hair, meet Magic Mike.) I especially liked seeing nearly all the secondary characters present, right down to the guy we remember from "Cleanup on Aisle 4." Usually budgetary considerations mean that if you have some of them, you can't have the others.

I still wonder about it being Song 100. My Sporcle quiz is only up to 98.

[Jesse]

18 minutes ago, Roccos Brother said:

I missed a huge chunk of the beginning of the episode, so I can't provide a full commentary, but I just wanted to say - THANK YOU writers for calling out entitled straight women that think it's okay to take over gay spaces!

 

15 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Father Brah—sorry, Daddy (hee)—Mrs. Hernandez's priest, right? That's the only connection I can think would bring him to the poker game.

The spikes on the ShredFlex 5000 had me rolling. And the insults White Josh and Nathaniel used to motivate each other were so mean but funny. I really like the friendship of WhiteJo and Nathaniel. I hope they keep it up.

 

7 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

I loved both of tonight's songs. (Hair, meet Magic Mike.) I especially liked seeing nearly all the secondary characters present, right down to the guy we remember from "Cleanup on Aisle 4." Usually budgetary considerations mean that if you have some of them, you can't have the others.

All of this!! I was not that into last week's episode, but this one was fire.

[Spartan Girl]

Great episode! I love the new White Josh and Nathaniel bromance. The "Fit, Hot Guys Have Problems Too" song was gold, and Josh crashing in mid-number was priceless.

Oy Rachel. Ordinarily she's be in the right for outing someone's cheating -- that couple's relationship was so wrong on so man levels -- but it was none of her business. Sometimes it really is better just to keep your mouth shut.

Yeaaaaaaaaah I don't think she'd be the best person to be an egg doner for Darryl right now. Still, it was a nice gesture to help her friend. And she did the right thing by breaking it off with Nathaniel knowing that she hasn't learned to be in a non-obsessive relationship. So...progress?

[dubbel zout]

Two steps forward, one step back with that one.

[Yeah No]

Didn't a few people on the board predict Rebecca volunteering an egg to Darryl?  Very good!  I thought it sounded like a foregone conclusion and it was!

It was nice to have a little beefcake to ogle at, so thanks, show!

Word to the wise for Rebecca:  Never break up with a "fit hot guy" thinking you can go back to him when you're ready because he probably won't be lonely for long!

Re: the "straight entitled women" taking over gay bars - I hear that complaint because marauding gangs of girls gone wild is what it's all about lately, but the problem as I see it is that straight women don't have very many straight bars to go to to ogle "fit hot guys" dancing or they'd most likely go there!  I thought that by now that should be an easy option to find but it somehow is not.  Also, it's actually flattering in a way because it means gayness is accepted by more people.  Women have always gone to gay bars and been welcome, but now of course it's become more of an obnoxious group invasion rather than one or two well behaved women here and there.  Back when I was young a million years ago not that many women went to gay bars.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, I thought it would take a little bit longer before Rebecca gave Darryl one of her eggs. I think it was a very sweet gesture but that Paula brought up excellent points about the hormones required to harvest her eggs, how this will affect her therapy, etc. I'm glad that Rebecca finally realized how kind Darryl has been to her since she arrived and told him how much she appreciates it though.

I liked the contrast of Rebecca not knowing how to channel her energy now that she's not chasing after someone or in a relationship versus White Josh and Nathaniel channeling their sadness into working out.

I wish I could tell Josh that it's okay to be a go go dancer. There's no reason to feel ashamed! I know several people who have worked as go go dancers and they do always have to deal with the stigma of being called strippers even though they don't actually remove any clothing while they dance (not that there's anything wrong with stripping either). It's weird how people get all puritanical and judgmental if you dance for money and it isn't, say, classical ballet.

Ugh, Sherry and the self-proclaimed whore can STFU. Even if they weren't in a gay bar, you have no right to tell people not to be sad just because they're out in public and within your line of sight. White Josh and Nathaniel were taking up two seats at the bar and somehow their sadness was killing the vibe of the other 10,000 square feet of the bar? Take a walk, bitch!

I loved that the first song had the whole cast! It's so rare that we get to have everyone in the same number so that alone made it really fun. The second song was hilarious.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Without Love You Can Save the World

Fit Hot Guys Have Problems Too

[Eeksquire]

Quote

Ordinarily she's be in the right for outing someone's cheating -- that couple's relationship was so wrong on so man levels -- but it was none of her business.

Maybe it's ok to out someone's cheating (though really - that can be a dangerous move for a whole bunch of reasons), but surely the moment to do so is not at their engagement party in front of all of their friends and family. That's where Rebecca's actions lose me - if you're concerned, pull him aside and let him know your concerns, but doing it publicly as some kind of love vigilante is more about Rebecca than anything else.  In this case, he already knew and was ok with what was going on, but if it turned out that he was surprised and hurt, those bad feelings will be exacerbated by being humiliated.

[doesntworkonwood]

I'm gunno go against the grain and say that I actually wasn't a fan of this episode. There was a bit too much going on and all of the story lines were separate so I couldn't get into it. I think all of the guest appearances and extras didn't fit so well just because some of the actors weren't good. Especially the girls at the gay bar, that was just bad. 

[DianeDobbler]

1 hour ago, Eeksquire said:

Maybe it's ok to out someone's cheating (though really - that can be a dangerous move for a whole bunch of reasons), but surely the moment to do so is not at their engagement party in front of all of their friends and family. That's where Rebecca's actions lose me - if you're concerned, pull him aside and let him know your concerns, but doing it publicly as some kind of love vigilante is more about Rebecca than anything else.  In this case, he already knew and was ok with what was going on, but if it turned out that he was surprised and hurt, those bad feelings will be exacerbated by being humiliated.

OMG, I know. Her taking the floor at the engagement party - even when she hesitated and started talking about love instead - Rebecca, go away. Give the microphone back to the grandmother.

Thought the actress playing the cheating fiancee' did an absolutely great job, and her look was on point too.

While he was fit already when he joined the show, Scott Michael Thomas has lost even more weight. He said he didn't used to be as fit as he's had to be on this show, but now he actually does have to eat and work out the way Nathaniel does in order to do the role. I'd also noticed that suddenly Vincent Rodriguez III was super ripped. I guess all three guys saw the script for this show and set to work.

Rebecca has less than $300 in the bank? How is she paying her rent, eating, and going to therapy?

Heather's been a slacker for so long but somehow I wasn't that surprised when it turned out she's a day manager at Home Base. 

Why can't Valencia teach yoga AND do her wedding/engagement planning business? A lot of people have multiple income streams. She didn't have to abandon yoga, and yoga could have been her safety net while her business got off the ground.

Really curious about what Rebecca is going to end up doing for a living. Rachel Bloom has said that being a lawyer isn't the best fit for Rebecca, although it is for Paula. But key members of the cast work at Whitefeather, and if Rebecca isn't a lawyer it would be difficult to integrate them.

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

OMG, I know. Her taking the floor at the engagement party - even when she hesitated and started talking about love instead - Rebecca, go away. Give the microphone back to the grandmother.

Thought the actress playing the cheating fiancee' did an absolutely great job, and her look was on point too.

While he was fit already when he joined the show, Scott Michael Thomas has lost even more weight. He said he didn't used to be as fit as he's had to be on this show, but now he actually does have to eat and work out the way Nathaniel does in order to do the role. I'd also noticed that suddenly Vincent Rodriguez III was super ripped. I guess all three guys saw the script for this show and set to work.

Rebecca has less than $300 in the bank? How is she paying her rent, eating, and going to therapy?

Heather's been a slacker for so long but somehow I wasn't that surprised when it turned out she's a day manager at Home Base. 

Why can't Valencia teach yoga AND do her wedding/engagement planning business? A lot of people have multiple income streams. She didn't have to abandon yoga, and yoga could have been her safety net while her business got off the ground.

Really curious about what Rebecca is going to end up doing for a living. Rachel Bloom has said that being a lawyer isn't the best fit for Rebecca, although it is for Paula. But key members of the cast work at Whitefeather, and if Rebecca isn't a lawyer it would be difficult to integrate them.

I've been wondering that too, particularly because she probably doesn't have any health insurance and therapy is expensive. The show has occasionally been realistic about the fact that that all these outlandish plans Rebecca comes up with cost money so you'd think they'd acknowledge that it costs money to live and Rebecca has no income. (I was surprised that the preview showed her going back to work at the firm; I assumed she was finished lawyering.)

I don't understand why Valencia quit yoga either - didn't she own a studio? If she wants party planning to be her number one, she could teach part-time to have a steady stream of income.

I saw Rebecca donating an egg coming, and I think it's a pretty bad idea - it's not the sort of thing you do on a whim.

Josh, as Erykah Badu said, work ain't honest but it pays the bills. Nothing wrong with taking a job as a go-go dancer while you figure out the next step! I actually think that sounds like a fun gig.

[alrightokay]

I loved seeing so many supporting characters in this episode, especially Father Brah and Hector.  I agree with @doesntworkonwood (are you a Doctor Who fan? :)) that the bachelorette party actresses weren't very good, but everyone else was great.  I don't know why, but I find the side-characters' little quirks so delightful--for example, Jim's repeated emphasis on the "s" sound when he and Tim were covertly inviting Darryl to the poker game cracked me up.

Did the Beverage Guy use the same "rent-a-date" service that Rebecca mentioned and someone used earlier this season (am I remembering correctly?)?

I've never really enjoyed Josh as a character even though I like Vincent Rodriguez, but I think the writers are doing a good job making Josh more sympathetic this season.  Even though Heather and Valencia might not want to hang out with Josh, it might be good for all of them to see that they're going through similar career uncertainties.  Josh said to WhiJo and Nathaniel that he felt bad because it seemed like everyone else knew what they were doing, but the reality is that most of the characters are still trying to figure out their paths, whether personally or professionally.  I know it'd be hard to get past the baggage they have with each other, but if Valencia and Josh could eventually become friends (maybe through Heather and Hector?), they could actually support each other through their struggles.

[k1ptog2]

23 minutes ago, alrightokay said:

the reality is that most of the characters are still trying to figure out their paths, whether personally or professionally.  

This seems to be one of the themes of the show  And Rebecca is the impetuous for everyone getting out of their ruts

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

But key members of the cast work at Whitefeather, and if Rebecca isn't a lawyer it would be difficult to integrate them.

She can join the poker game. 

[NUguy514]

As a Northwestern Theatre (-re, not -er, thank you very much!) major myself, I laughed out loud at Rebecca's calling Meghan Markle Harry's Northwestern Theatre major fiancée.  I love how much of a status whore Rebecca has always been when it comes to education.  Also, it was obviously a shout-out to me personally.

[femmefan1946]

Why can't Valencia teach yoga AND do her wedding/engagement planning business?

 

I'm not sure at this point (the Season One and Two DVDs haven't arrived from Amazon yet) but after Valencia and Josh broke up didn't the actual owner of the studio give Valencia fewer hours? Until she effectively was fired?

[DianeDobbler]

2 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

Why can't Valencia teach yoga AND do her wedding/engagement planning business?

 

I'm not sure at this point (the Season One and Two DVDs haven't arrived from Amazon yet) but after Valencia and Josh broke up didn't the actual owner of the studio give Valencia fewer hours? Until she effectively was fired?

Even in a town as poky as West Covina, there are a million venues where Valencia, a certified yoga instructor, could teach yoga. White Josh's gym. Another yoga studio other than the one where she taught befroe. Yoga also classes happen in the same fitness clubs that have Zumba, bootcamp, spin, etc. She could be a personal yoga instructor and do at home stuff. Just to put a bit of a safety net underneath her. 

[Cthulhudrew]

I can't remember the last time we had an ensemble song, so it was really great to see one this episode (plus the song was really hysterical as well). A lot of interesting pairings this episode- White Josh and Nathaniel was a pretty inspired pairing. They play off one another well. And the spikes on that exercise machine cracked me up.

I thought the episode ended kind of abruptly, though. I'm not sure Rebecca giving Darrel her egg will work out that well; it's a nice thought, but as Paula points out, the hormone treatments alone are probably not something she needs right now and also, given Rebecca's personality, I just can't see her not wanting to be involved in the child's life. It would drive her mom crazy, to boot, knowing she has a biological grandkid out there.

(I always have to give props to any woman who donates her eggs; that's a tough process to go through. It's not like us guys where you can "fire and forget." It's months of hormone treatments as well as the surgical procedure to remove the eggs. Had a friend do it once, and learned about it then. I'd never really given much thought to it before.)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

12 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

Rebecca has less than $300 in the bank? How is she paying her rent, eating, and going to therapy?

Why can't Valencia teach yoga AND do her wedding/engagement planning business? A lot of people have multiple income streams. She didn't have to abandon yoga, and yoga could have been her safety net while her business got off the ground.

 

10 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I've been wondering that too, particularly because she probably doesn't have any health insurance and therapy is expensive. The show has occasionally been realistic about the fact that that all these outlandish plans Rebecca comes up with cost money so you'd think they'd acknowledge that it costs money to live and Rebecca has no income. (I was surprised that the preview showed her going back to work at the firm; I assumed she was finished lawyering.)

I don't understand why Valencia quit yoga either - didn't she own a studio? If she wants party planning to be her number one, she could teach part-time to have a steady stream of income.

I've been assuming that when Rebecca quit her job, she got COBRA insurance. As long as her existing health insurance at the law firm covered therapy then her COBRA would cover it too. COBRA allows up to 18 months of insurance after termination and up to 29 months is available to employees who are determined to have been disabled at any time during the first 60 days of COBRA coverage. I'm honestly not sure if Rebecca's new diagnosis would count as being disabled under the ADA, but at the very least she would be covered for a year and a half.

As for Valencia not teaching yoga anymore, I don't understand that either. It's fine for her to launch a party planning business but there's no reason why she can't keep teaching yoga part time until her new business is generating enough income for her to live on.

There are two main ways that people teach yoga and other fitness classes:

(1) Get hired at an existing yoga studio/gym/dance studio. You are paid a flat rate (say $20 per class) regardless of how many students show up. Usually in this situation, your employer is responsible for advertising the class, dealing with student registration, etc. Sometimes they will hire you to teach just one class per week and increase the number of classes if your first class has a lot of students. This route is low risk but doesn't pay well. On the other hand, all you have to do is show up to teach. You don't have to deal with setting up an online registration system or having cash on hand for drop in students.

(2) Rent hourly slots at an existing yoga studio/gym/dance studio. You pay a flat rate (say $20/hour) and then you can decide how much to charge each student. You are responsible for advertising your class and dealing with registration. There is more risk but there is the potential to make a lot more money. If you charge $20 per student, you can make $200 if you have 10 students in a one hour class. Some studios that allow teachers to rent space require you to rent a minimum of 2-3 hours per week.  If you can get two back to back time slots and teach a beginner class first and an intermediate class afterward, it's more time efficient so that you aren't driving to the studio three different times per week (and disrupting the rest of your day to go teach one class). Since yoga doesn't require as much space per person as a dance or fitness class, she could also rent spaces outside of studios. I've seen yoga classes in rec rooms, church basements, etc.

But either way, there's no reason for Valencia not to be teaching yoga and making some extra money while her party planning business is still in its infancy. Yoga is so popular that she could easily teach in less traditional settings (outside of studios and gyms) like the public library (the one by my mom's house as a whole list of classes including zumba), the local rec center, the YMCA, after school programs, college campuses, corporate offices (many companies now hire fitness teachers, massage therapists, etc. and have them available for their employees during the day).

Edited January 14, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[LisaM]

Having Valencia teach yoga at White Josh's gym would be interesting. 

Loved the pairing of Nathaniel and White Josh - inspired. I hope it continues. Great way to bring Nathaniel into a wider group of people. 

Rebecca offering to donate her egg to Darryl is a lovely gesture especially considering how supportive Darryl has always been of Rebecca but....a terrible idea. I wonder if this ends up with Paula stepping in for Rebecca and donating the egg?

The expansion of Mrs. Hernandez's role cracks me up.

[tennisgurl]

I would love to watch Valencia teaching Yoga at White Joshes gym, I think that could be really interesting. 

Really liked the episode, and how everyone is kind of in flux and trying to figure their shit out. It plays most of the scenarios for laughs, but I like that the show explores how most people dont have it together, even if its at the point in their life when they're "supposed" to have their life on the right track (relationship, stable income, some kind of emotional stability).  Oh Josh, dont be embarrassed! Theres no shame in your game! 

Nathaniel and White Josh are a fun pairing, and that it totally works, I hope we see it again. Their mean insults/inspirations were hilarious. "Maybe if you finish this one, your dad will love you!!!" "Your really good at this!" And the stuff at the gay bar was fun, and it was great watching the whole "straight women at girls nights hanging out at gay bars" phenomenon, which is totally a thing. That chick at the bar was even more of an asshole than Ali the cheating fiance. You've never seen someone cry at a bar? What bars do you go to normally, lady?

Speaking of, Rebecca's problem is that, even when she has good intentions, she has to go BIG with everything. Telling the guy his fiance is cheating on him is understandable, but announcing it at his engagement part isnt. She just always needs something to be doing. 

[DianeDobbler]

COBRA is expensive, though, and Rebecca has rent and therapy. I don't think she's going to qualify for sliding scale, but even that is expensive. She clearly has no savings.

[possibilities]

Are scones really $8 each?

What happened to Dr. Akopian?

Rebecca not only needs to be doing something, she needs to be the center of a drama. There is no universe in which making that announcement into a microphone in front of family and friends could be construed to be genuinely meant to be helpful rather than self-aggrandizing. Take him aside, maybe after the party. Say something quietly and gently and be supportive if he's upset. Grabbing the ic from his grandma and making a speech is all about Rebecca seeking attention, not about an urge to help.

I loved the episode, though. It's not like this show was ever about exemplary behavior.

[Ohwell]

3 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

COBRA is expensive, though, and Rebecca has rent and therapy. I don't think she's going to qualify for sliding scale, but even that is expensive. She clearly has no savings.

That's what I was going to say about COBRA.  I had it once and it is expensive.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

But it’s less expensive than paying for weekly therapy sessions out of pocket!

[theatremouse]

Not necessarily? Many therapists don't take insurance anyway, and those that do would still have a copay. Fake-but-plausible-math:

$50 copay for therapy weekly + whatever monthly COBRA costs (Guessing $500-$800 if not more)

vs

$150 full price for therapy weekly

I mean, there are many reasons other than just the therapy I hope she does have some health insurance; maybe Naomi is quietly paying for her insurance for now. I find myself expending way too much energy being distracted by the math on this show...

[Yeah No]

On 1/13/2018 at 11:09 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I've been assuming that when Rebecca quit her job, she got COBRA insurance. As long as her existing health insurance at the law firm covered therapy then her COBRA would cover it too. COBRA allows up to 18 months of insurance after termination and up to 29 months is available to employees who are determined to have been disabled at any time during the first 60 days of COBRA coverage. I'm honestly not sure if Rebecca's new diagnosis would count as being disabled under the ADA, but at the very least she would be covered for a year and a half.

I've actually been assuming that Rebecca didn't really quit her job and her company has put her out on both FMLA and short term disability at the same time, which would protect her health insurance benefits and give her a percentage of her income as well.  While out she would be required to pay whatever co-pay she was responsible for while working and her company would continue to pay the same amount towards her monthly premium as usual.  A company can elect to pay all of it, it's up to them.  The company can also continue to pay it when FMLA is exhausted and it turns into long term disability.  That's up to them too.  It is possible to get short term disability for clinical depression or any other mental health issue that requires recuperation.  

If she did quit her job she doesn't have to go on COBRA if the premiums are too high but can apply for health insurance through Obamacare if that is more affordable.  If she not getting an income at all or very little she may even qualify for Medicaid.  But I doubt she would really quit if she were on some form of disability because you can't really do that and continue to get disability.  Her therapist would have explained that to her and advised her against quitting.  If she were terminated from her job that's a different story and she would continue to receive disability payments even though no longer employed until her doctors say she is well enough to work.  However I think if she quit, a place like her office they may not have even recognized her resignation and put her down as terminated so she could continue to collect benefits.

[femmefan1946]

On 1/13/2018 at 5:48 PM, DianeDobbler said:

Even in a town as poky as West Covina, there are a million venues where Valencia, a certified yoga instructor, could teach yoga. White Josh's gym. Another yoga studio other than the one where she taught befroe. Yoga also classes happen in the same fitness clubs that have Zumba, bootcamp, spin, etc. She could be a personal yoga instructor and do at home stuff. Just to put a bit of a safety net underneath her. 

And in Ottawa Canada, there are yoga classes held on the lawn in front of Parliament. The Prime Minister has been known to join in because of course he would.

[DianeDobbler]

I don't go to Starbucks but I can easily imagine an $8.00 scone here in Brooklyn. Even if the price is a bit of an exaggeration, it's the sort of exaggeration that just highlights reality.

Rebecca definitely quit her job.  Timeline: She sleeps with Greg's dad, and shortly afterwards she's in Scarsdale, away from Dr. Avakian. She's not in therapy. She "agrees" with her mother that she'll resign from Whitefeather and apply to return to her former firm. Shortly afterwards a dismayed Nathaniel receives her resignation. It's not loa. She quit. Shortly after THAT, Rebecca's mom finds her browser history, and shortly after that, Rebecca makes her suicide attempt on the plane. Subsequently, she enters therapy. It's both individual and group therapy. She has to pay separately for each (one fee for group, one for individual therapy), unless she's entered a program, which would also be expensive. Her financial situation hasn't been addressed in therapy that we've seen. 

CEG is so hit and miss w/money. I can well believe that rents in West Covina aren't that high. Can also believe that employment opportunities for a millennial aren't that plentiful, and what we've seen is pretty much on offer - small regional law firms, tech centers, gyms, bars, restaurants. Rebecca's rent would be on the high side - a two bedroom with that kitchen and that living room space.  (CEG dealt with Valencia's financial history in season 1 when we learned her credit was poor. It was a nice reality-based touch, but CEG just veers around completely when it comes to its characters resources.)

Rebecca said she spent tens of thousands of dollars on Josh. I remember when she went broke, but then she got a bonus check and apparently it restored her to financial security. Really? At what she's pulling in at Whitefeather, even if she's the highest earner, she couldn't possibly have had tens of thousands of dollars to throw away.  After all, Darryl himself can only afford to purchase eggs once a year. The Advanced Fertility Center of Chicago reports that a complete cycle is 26k. Rebecca "donating" suggests all that's involved in ivf is a viable egg. No, it's the entire process, which is done under medical supervision, which is not cheap. It's still going to cost a boatload.

Wonder why Valencia isn't dating. Maybe the long game is to have her reconcile with Josh once they both have "found themselves."

Nice kicker at the end that Rebecca donating an egg to Darryl is pretty much every bit as dramatic and impulsive as the stuff she's done for romantic love.

It's funny, from what we've seen, Valencia is almost the one with no safety net. We saw her speak on the phone to her family once, when she was hoping Josh would propose, but that's it. We saw the enormous wedding of Josh's sister, which had to be very expensive, we know his other sister is in college, and that his dad owns a medical lab. So I figure Josh has been enabled in his career vacillation because he's never had to just "survive".  Heather's parents live locally, she lived with them even after she reached adulthood, and that is always somewhere she can return to if it came to that. Even going back to Greg, he and his dad lived together, and there was this whole sob story about how it held him back from pursuing school, but it turned out he had a rich mother and stepfather very willing to pitch in as soon as he got over his butthurt. CEG really doesn't have too many characters who lack a back-up. I'm still suspicious of the entire Naomi thing. Her approach to life as a sort of bitterness that suggests she thinks she should be living a different sort of life, but her husband's faithlessness deprived her of the style to which she was entitled to become accustomed. But a) her husband clearly never had the income to establish that lifestyle in the first place; b) her lifestyle is sustained, and her daughter's education paid for, without any visible means of support. Want that grandparent inheritence and trust fund to get a shout out on CEG tout de suite!

Edited January 15, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[Bruinsfan]

On 1/13/2018 at 9:19 AM, DianeDobbler said:

While he was fit already when he joined the show, Scott Michael Thomas has lost even more weight. He said he didn't used to be as fit as he's had to be on this show, but now he actually does have to eat and work out the way Nathaniel does in order to do the role. I'd also noticed that suddenly Vincent Rodriguez III was super ripped. I guess all three guys saw the script for this show and set to work.

I cringed on Scott Michael Foster's behalf over him having to sing a song about being hot alongside a shirtless David Hull. I mean, he's a nice enough looking guy, and appears to be fairly fit in a regular person way, but unless he's delusional that had to be a big blow to the ol' self-esteem. I do love the idea of them bonding as dumped workout buddies, though.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Bruinsfan

[chaifan]

5 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I cringed on Scott Michael Foster's behalf over him having to sing a song about being hot alongside a shirtless David Hull. I mean, he's a nice enough looking guy, and appears to be fairly fit in a regular person way, but unless he's delusional that had to be a big blow to the ol' self-esteem. I do love the idea of them bonding as dumped workout buddies, though.

Eh, I think they're both super fit, but just different body types.  I felt bad for SMF because he's clearly the worst dancer of the three.  He just doesn't move as naturally as the other two.  Or, it could just be that "Nathan" can't dance.  Like how "Josh" was horrible singing into the karaoke machine last week. 

[DrBriCa]

On 1/14/2018 at 3:36 PM, possibilities said:

What happened to Dr. Akopian?

Given the intensive program Rebecca is currently in, including weekly sessions with her new doctor and the group therapy, it makes sense that she's not currently with Dr. Akopian. Too many cooks in the pot, so to speak, as the messages from her therapy might become confusing (and even more expensive) if Rebecca's working with two separate therapists weekly. The only difference would be if Dr. Akopian were a psychiatrist who wanted to specifically continue medications for Rebecca (monthly) while she does therapy with the weekly DBT outpatient clinic, but we really haven't seen much about her medications. Plus, she was always rather frustrated by Rebecca's lack of boundaries, poor attendance, and poor attention span when they did work together. She likely is relieved to have a borderline personality expert take over Rebecca's case until she stabilizes more.

 

7 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I do love the idea of them bonding as dumped workout buddies, though.

I enjoyed Nathanial and White Josh bonding a lot. I had a tough time believing that Nathanial would be so easy-going with Josh, though... especially at the end of the song when Nathanial is in the middle and puts his hand on Josh's shoulder while ugly crying. While I could see in general how he might have his guard down given his current grief, it still seemed odd. He kissed Rebecca and first suggested intercourse when she was Josh's fiancee. He was at the wedding to see how heartbroken she was by him jilting her. He was part of her early revenge plans to strip away her conscience. She nearly killed herself after Josh's final rejection... There's just a lot there that would give him a net-negative impression of Josh (with whom he rarely shared a scene before) that it seems too pat for them to bond quickly over imaginary go-go dancing, mutual hotness, and newfound singleness. 

[tennisgurl]

I really love that they brought back the whole love triangle with the supermarket people (including the grocery clerk with half an eye lid!) in for an episode. This show is really good at bringing back old or minor characters back, which is always super fun. 

[angora]

I'm glad David Hull finally got a big part in a song.  WhiJo is at a disadvantage, song-wise - they're often about worries/delusions/damage, and he's just too well-adjusted!  Finally, we got to see him spin out enough to sing about it.  I thought the song was great, super catchy and funny.  Pairing White Josh and Nathaniel as break-up buddies was a smart move, and I cosign the wish for Valencia to teach yoga at his gym.  Especially now that Rebecca and Josh are broken up, the characters are a little more split up, and we need more reasons to put them together.

[AllyB]

9 hours ago, DrBriCa said:

I enjoyed Nathanial and White Josh bonding a lot. I had a tough time believing that Nathanial would be so easy-going with Josh, though... especially at the end of the song when Nathanial is in the middle and puts his hand on Josh's shoulder while ugly crying. While I could see in general how he might have his guard down given his current grief, it still seemed odd. He kissed Rebecca and first suggested intercourse when she was Josh's fiancee. He was at the wedding to see how heartbroken she was by him jilting her. He was part of her early revenge plans to strip away her conscience. She nearly killed herself after Josh's final rejection... There's just a lot there that would give him a net-negative impression of Josh (with whom he rarely shared a scene before) that it seems too pat for them to bond quickly over imaginary go-go dancing, mutual hotness, and newfound singleness. 

Not only that. But just a few weeks ago Nathaniel set in motion a plan to murder Josh's grandfather!!! Seeing them bonding like that was truly disturbing with that in mind. The only way I can justify it, is to assume Nathaniel never even voiced such a nefarious plan and Rebecca just created that part of their conversation in her mind as part of her break from reality.

[huahaha]

I'm surprised fifty-something Daryl deciding to have a baby on his own while he works full time isn't being discussed on the show. (Maybe the actor is playing late forties, but still.)

The plot made some sense with the much younger White Josh in the picture. Viable sperm is hardly the only issue in deciding to have a baby that late in life, though. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it should've raised a question or two.

[possibilities]

Also, why not adopt?

[bleiby73]

On 1/15/2018 at 0:02 PM, Bruinsfan said:

I cringed on Scott Michael Foster's behalf over him having to sing a song about being hot alongside a shirtless David Hull. I mean, he's a nice enough looking guy, and appears to be fairly fit in a regular person way, but unless he's delusional that had to be a big blow to the ol' self-esteem. I do love the idea of them bonding as dumped workout buddies, though.

Wow, I find Scott Michael Foster to be far better looking (times 1000) than David Hull. And David Hull is attractive too, he just doesn't do it for me.

Edited January 18, 2018 by bleiby73

[Irlandesa]

54 minutes ago, bleiby73 said:

Wow, I find Scott Michael Foster to be far better looking (times 1000) than David Hull. And David Hull is attractive too, he just doesn't do it for me.

But if we're talking about physique, which I suspect @Bruinsfan was, then both Hull and Rodriguez have far more definition, especially in the abs. It's not something that's noticeable when they have clothes on but this routine had stripping.  SMF mentioned working out more to match how he felt his character would work out but he's not a professional dancer like the other two.

[Bruinsfan]

19 hours ago, possibilities said:

Also, why not adopt?

Can you see Darryl successfully navigating the kind of interviews they have to determine parental fitness for adoption as a middle-aged single LGBT man who gets frazzled and spins off into meltdowns at the drop of a hat? I mean, we've seen that he's actually a pretty good parent to his daughter but I can visualize a social worker looking for an alarm button five minutes into his initial interview.

 

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

But if we're talking about physique, which I suspect @Bruinsfan was, then both Hull and Rodriguez have far more definition, especially in the abs. It's not something that's noticeable when they have clothes on but this routine had stripping.  SMF mentioned working out more to match how he felt his character would work out but he's not a professional dancer like the other two.

Yeah, I'm not saying Hull has a clear advantage in the facial handsomeness department (he does to me, but that's in the realm of individual taste), but dude is ripped enough to be believable as a gym trainer in southern California. Foster's build is more like that moderately athletic guy who plays frisbee and pick-up football at the park. I'd say Vincent is on the borderline of what would be successful as a go-go dancer in a gay bar; I think he's hot, but his build is on the stocky side and those venues go either for young and twinkish or bodybuilder types. Hull, on the other hand, could clean up at that if this acting thing doesn't end up working out for him.

[possibilities]

Do the opening theme songs count toward the 100? There's been one every season.

[bleiby73]

8 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

8 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Yeah, I'm not saying Hull has a clear advantage in the facial handsomeness department (he does to me, but that's in the realm of individual taste), but dude is ripped enough to be believable as a gym trainer in southern California. Foster's build is more like that moderately athletic guy who plays frisbee and pick-up football at the park. I'd say Vincent is on the borderline of what would be successful as a go-go dancer in a gay bar; I think he's hot, but his build is on the stocky side and those venues go either for young and twinkish or bodybuilder types. Hull, on the other hand, could clean up at that if this acting thing doesn't end up working out for him.

 

Yeah that makes sense. Scott Michael Foster definitely doesn't have the abs that David Hull and Vincent Rodriguez have. But he's just so damn pretty and so tall. The Nathaniel character really does it for me. Le sigh! Funny how much tastes differ. In any case, I really enjoyed that number as it was sexy and hilarious at the same time.

[Rinaldo]

On 1/18/2018 at 5:07 PM, possibilities said:

Do the opening theme songs count toward the 100? There's been one every season.

Yep, I definitely include them and all the significant reprises, and my count is still three short....

Possibly they include throwaway jokes like "The Whale" (her college musical theater song) or "This Song Goes in a Loop-De-Loop" (remember that one?), which we don't hear in their entirety. Those, plus one of the one-like joke reprises like "Trent Is Getting Ready Song," would bring up the total to 100.

[STOPSHOUTING]

Putting aside that Rebecca’s financial situation is ridiculously untenable and utterly unrealistic and the idea that someone on psychiatric medication and in recent treatment for a serious mental disorder being an egg donor is ridiculous for 1,000,000 reasons, one that hasn’t been mentioned is ... Is it a fantastic idea to get an egg  from someone who has a serious mental illness? I mean, mental illness is frequently genetic and why would you want to take that sort of risk when you can elect to not to  (aka find another egg donor)? 

 

I'm not saying people with mental illness shouldn't have children, but in this case it's a clear choice and for the same reason as you would likely not CHOOSE someone with the BRCA (breast cancer) gene as a donor if you had other options, you wouldn't chose someone who has  significant mental health issue either. Why risk it?

 

I also get why, in real life, Rebecca definitely  shouldn’t be in ANY relationship  but in the context of what we are seeing onscreen Rebecca and Nathanial’s relationship seems fairly loving and he’s incredibly understanding and kind to her. So that’s bad for her, but donating an egg during the same crisis is emotionally healthy? 

 

My main problem with this show remains that they want us to take Rebecca's mental illness very seriously, when it's a plot point, but ignore all the serious mental health issues of all the other characters and instead find them quirky and funny. And they don't even want us to take Rebecca's life, career and illness all THAT seriously. No serious setting would have someone follow up a suicide attempt with an egg donor plot played for farce. The tone is so bizarre and all over the place I just struggle to even enjoy this season at all, yet somehow feel compelled to plod towards the end.

Edited March 5, 2018 by STOPSHOUTING