Freestyle, Ski Jumping, and Alpine Skiing

[kili]

Quote

 It makes me wonder what exactly she thought she was proving to the world.

She said that she did it to inspire Hungarians to try freestyle skiing. I think she just might achieve that goal. If I was a Hungarian skier sitting at home watching that, I'd take up Freestyle just so that Hungary was better represented in the next Olympics. How much harder would it be to come up with a few tricks that could beat her?

Congratulations to Cassie who showed the world what these athletes can really do.

[greyhorse]

10 hours ago, blackwing said:

I agree that big air just seems like another slopestyle jump.  But I want to point out that at the Olympics, big air for snowboarding is the equivalent of aerials for skiing.  At least at the Olympics, I don't think there was an "aerials" for snowboarding until "big air".

I want to say that Big Air replaced parallel slalom in snowboarding?  I remember in Sochi there was some kind of rebel American who gave up his citizenship and became a Russian citizen and competed for Russia.  He won both giant slalom and slalom.

I'm unclear as to why slalom got dumped in favor of big air.  Maybe men's big air will be really big air and like skiing aerials, because the women's version just looked like the last jump in slopestyle.

I think the difference with big air is essentially they're starting at the top of a 10 story ramp, so their speeds are much higher.  I think the term Big Air was probably taken from the Summer X Games, when you would see guys on BMX bikes barreling down a similar huge ramp to do outrageous jumps.

The guy's name was Vic Wild.  US Ski and Snowboard didn't give him funding for the ugly stepchild sport of parallel snowboarding, so he moved to Russia and won two golds in parallel and giant parallel snowboarding.  Seems like this year, they've gotten rid of parallel snowboarding, which I assume had the gates closer together than the giant version.  But there is still the giant version.  I assume we'll see that woman who surprisingly won the Super G in skiing competing in snowboarding which is her real sport.

What I don't understand is why have this head to head snowboard race that nobody cares about?  Why is there no head to head ski version of slalom?  I seem to remember way back in the 80s, when Phil and Steve Mahre were the faces of the ski team, there would be this fun Saturday afternoon celebrity type races on ABC Wide World of Sports that had head to head slalom competitions.  So if skiing doesn't have it, why does snowboarding have it?  I'd much rather see a "downhill snowboarding" or "super G snowboarding" and just see who can bomb down the mountain the fastest than something stupid like parallel snowboarding.

[blueray]

On 2/19/2018 at 10:58 AM, greyhorse said:

I don't think this was shown on the broadcast for obvious reasons, but did anyone see this awful halfpipe run?

I'm impressed the commentators didn't call her out on it at all and made comments as if she was actually trying to compete.

Love all the Yahoo comments... "Looks like the average skier on vacation who wandered into an Olympic halfpipe"

The article raises the questions of why this Elizabeth Swaney woman gets a lot of hate, while the Mexican and shirtless Tongan cross country skier get applauded for their efforts.  Or I'm thinking back to the ski jumper Eddie the Eagle from Great Britain.  Maybe it's that she is from the US, claiming Hungarian citizenship, and seemingly having endless time and money to travel the globe "competing' in these qualifiers so she could make it to the Olympics.  I'd frankly be so embarrassed if that was my skill level and it's being shown to the world.

Wow, it's hard to believe she was competing. Was she injured for something? Did she have to qualify to get into the Olympics?

 

It is nice that the announcers didn't make fun of her, but I'm even more shocked how they weren't surprised lol.

 

Edit: I looked her up. It shows how messed up the system really is to qualify. I still feel like she wasn't really trying to do anything at all.  There really was no one better from Hungry? If you were to take the average skiier where I live, I think they'd be able to do more. I feel like if she spent years not only learning it but tricks as well. Of course she'll be to old by the next one.

Edited February 20, 2018 by blueray

[Mumbles]

Quote

Maybe it's that she is from the US, claiming Hungarian citizenship, and seemingly having endless time and money to travel the globe "competing' in these qualifiers so she could make it to the Olympics.

Yeah, that's it for me. All this Olympic tourism leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Investment bankers skiing for Dominica in the last Olympics. That kid from San Diego who snowboards for Ireland. 

It happens in skating too, but at least the skaters who switch nationalities still look to be very, very good skaters. I think the International Skating Union does have minimum standards so you can't, say, buy a citizenship from a willing country and waste everyone's time doing bunny hops and two-legged spins for three minutes.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Mumbles

[Quickbeam]

The thing that really and truly bugs me about the Swaney thing is that I’d lay money she wants to write a book about “how I got to compete in the Olympics”. She swapped countries and letter of the law’d the competition rules. Trust fund baby? Roaming the world with a checklist in her hand making sure she didn’t fall down. It really creeps me out that good athletes had to stay home while this fame seeker got an Olympic berth. 

I would much rather see Eddie the Eagle who competed for his own country and who to this day promotes the sport. Or Devin Logan who was a silver medalist in Sochi. 

[galaxygirl76]

Meanwhile there are also countries that have stricter qualification demands than the IOC does like the Netherlands, who want their athletes to be somewhat competitive and ask for top 12 classifications. We don't have skiiers that are good enough according to our NOC so if anyone wants to defect please do it(looking at you Marcel Hirscher, who is half Dutch but won multiple golds for Austria in various alpine events) ;P

[selkie]

8 hours ago, greyhorse said:

What I don't understand is why have this head to head snowboard race that nobody cares about?  Why is there no head to head ski version of slalom?  

The World Cup will have 2 or 3 Parallel Slaloms or City Event/Parallel Slalom events each season. So it's something you can pick up some series points in by doing well at it; it's just not an Olympic or World Championship event. I think I've hear something about FIS dropping the combined event, so maybe we could get more PSes in the spots where the combined used to be. 

[galaxygirl76]

Dutch commentator just mentioned the qualification demands from our NOC for the alpine events: twice top 16 or once top 8, which is unrealistic for Dutch skiiers at the moment. Maybe someday.

[opus]

Looks like after the coverage debacle of,  what was it , the Super G?, NBC is sticking with the downhill till the bitter end.

Edited February 21, 2018 by opus

[Souris]

Vonn really was breaking down in the interview after the downhill. Wonder how much was the disappointment of not getting gold and how much was the fact it was her last downhill. They said she was the oldest downhill medalist, which is nothing to sneeze.

[stealinghome]

I thought it was both tbh, but more the latter. It was so clear she would keep skiing forever if her body would only allow it.

[alihart41]

Yeah, it was mostly the latter. She was cheery and laughing with Goggia and a bunch of people earlier right after her run and was upbeat when she gave her first interview to NBC, which was a few minutes after she finished. I think it hit her as the competition winded down that this was it.

I LOLed when Dan Hicks said she chose bib No. 7 because she wanted to go after Goggia, who had been going after Lindsey at other races, and didn't want to give her an edge.

[selkie]

It's not totally the end for Vonn- she still wants to hang in there long enough to pass Ingemar Stenmark's total World Cup wins record. But I think she also wants to be able to walk comfortably at age 60, so it's probably only another season to try for that, provided she doesn't get hurt again. 

[Dots And Stripes]

I appreciated Vonn's vulnerability. How wonderful that she's been able to do something she clearly loves so much as her job.

[kittykat]

Bronze is nothing to sneer at Lindsay.  I'm glad she got another medal.

[blackwing]

I am happy for her.  I know she wanted the fairy tale gold to cap her Olympic career, but with the level of competition, bronze is still impressive.

[NUguy514]

I really like Goggia, so congrats to her on her gold.  I've always loved Lindsey Vonn, so I'm really excited for her to have medaled in the downhill.  She's been a great ambassador for her sport and a great sportswoman; she seems to get along with so many of the other elite skiers and enjoys her role as a mentor to the younger American skiers.  You've done the US proud, Lindsey!

[greyhorse]

I'm happy that Lindsey medaled.  It wasn't the gold to end her Olympic career and the one I'm sure she wanted for her grandfather, but it's still impressive that she can successfully compete and win at this stage of her career.

I really liked watching the coverage of Lindsey after she raced and was just waiting for the event to finish.  She looked so relaxed and at peace.  I'm a sucker for a blonde in aviators, and she looked like a true rock star with all sorts of people coming up to her and talking to her.  What a fun life she must have!

I could probably post in the "Olympics commentators we love and hate" thread as well, but I'm once again impressed with Bode.  He has taken this analyst job seriously.  He was insightful, clear, and described the skiing in a way average viewers could understand.  I really liked that he would reference how the skier did in the training runs and how she adjusted her strategy.  It shows he was taking notes and was able to recognize those subtle differences in runs that only a pro's eye could discern.  Bravo, Bode!  But Dan Hicks can just go away.  I feel like he announces ski races like any of us would.  "Oh wow, that was a wobbly jump!  And here she goes to the left... and now to the right.  Whoa, her ski slipped a little there!  She's a little ahead on the split!  Oh now she's lost time.  And here she comes down for the finish!"  I don't know much about him, and I would hope that he doesn't normally announce ski races.  I feel like he's an NBC guy that was just assigned alpine skiing and he has to sort of fake it through the entire Olympics.

[Conotocarious]

Complete agreement about Bode Miller, he was fantastic. I really felt like he made skiing accessible to me.

[mtlchick]

9 hours ago, blackwing said:

I am happy for her.  I know she wanted the fairy tale gold to cap her Olympic career, but with the level of competition, bronze is still impressive.

I did appreciate that once she finished her run second (at the time), she turned to see Goggina, smiled and said something like "you beat me today."  Some days you want to win and you deliver, some days you expect to win and you fall short. But considering her injuries , I see this as a positive win for her.

[greyhorse]

I'm reading more about the Team Event which closes the ski races for the Olympics.  For some reason, I thought it was going to be more of a combined event, like one downhill, one slalom, one GS, etc.  But no, it appears that it is the parallel slalom race like the snowboarders have.  I'm disappointed that Ted Ligety, Mikaela Shiffrin, and now Lindsey have all decided not to compete.  Apparently it's because the World Cup events are coming up soon?  That's disappointing.  How many times can you win an Olympic medal for your country?  Lindsey said she pulled out after hearing Ligety and Shiffrin weren't going to compete and thus thought their chances to medal would be small.

[blackwing]

5 hours ago, greyhorse said:

I'm reading more about the Team Event which closes the ski races for the Olympics.  For some reason, I thought it was going to be more of a combined event, like one downhill, one slalom, one GS, etc.  But no, it appears that it is the parallel slalom race like the snowboarders have.  I'm disappointed that Ted Ligety, Mikaela Shiffrin, and now Lindsey have all decided not to compete.  Apparently it's because the World Cup events are coming up soon?  That's disappointing.  How many times can you win an Olympic medal for your country?  Lindsey said she pulled out after hearing Ligety and Shiffrin weren't going to compete and thus thought their chances to medal would be small.

I don't get it either.  I get that they still have World Cup races coming up, but if they are going to take the position that this event is "more chances to get injured", then why bother being a professional ski racer at all?  Every trip down the mountain, whether it is training or competition, is a chance to get injured.  Lifting weights is a chance to get injured.  Being alive is a chance to get injured.

Ted Ligety is 33, I think he was saying he was thinking about sticking around another four years.  But Aksel Lund Svindal at 35 is the oldest ever alpine medalist. I'm skeptical that Ligety would be competitive.  This team event was his last chance to represent his country at the Olympics, he was mediocre this time, but oh well.

This emphasizes even more that I find it curious that the French sent Shiffrin's boyfriend home for expressing what is obviously the pervasive mentality amongst all of these skiers.  To them, skiing is an individual sport, they might be from the same country but there is no team in skiing.

What a shame.  Ligety could have ended his Olympic career on a high note with a team medal but chose to do a Shani Davis and say he has to save himself for future individual races.

[greyhorse]

3 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I don't get it either.  I get that they still have World Cup races coming up, but if they are going to take the position that this event is "more chances to get injured", then why bother being a professional ski racer at all?  Every trip down the mountain, whether it is training or competition, is a chance to get injured.  Lifting weights is a chance to get injured.  Being alive is a chance to get injured.

Ted Ligety is 33, I think he was saying he was thinking about sticking around another four years.  But Aksel Lund Svindal at 35 is the oldest ever alpine medalist. I'm skeptical that Ligety would be competitive.  This team event was his last chance to represent his country at the Olympics, he was mediocre this time, but oh well.

This emphasizes even more that I find it curious that the French sent Shiffrin's boyfriend home for expressing what is obviously the pervasive mentality amongst all of these skiers.  To them, skiing is an individual sport, they might be from the same country but there is no team in skiing.

What a shame.  Ligety could have ended his Olympic career on a high note with a team medal but chose to do a Shani Davis and say he has to save himself for future individual races.

Yeah.  I keep hoping that this some rope-a-dope strategy, that the 3 stars are saying they are pulling out to get ready for World Cup races, and that others will follow suit like Marcel Hirscher has apparently also done, only to have them all show up on race day and crush it for the US.  But that seems unlikely.  Shiffrin is only 22.  She can't handle one more day of racing?  Maybe the French wanted to make her go home early and that's also why they sent home her boyfriend.

Right on about how skiing is individual.  You may show interest in where your teammates finish, I think Lindsey made a comment about Alice McKennis being in [then] fourth place, but ultimately it's every man and woman for him/herself.  This would suggest a lack of leadership from TPTB at US Ski.  It seems like they should be able to convince their team to participate in a team event.  Maybe Elizabeth Swaney is available...

[SeanC]

The seeding race for the women's ski cross event was just held, and it's fair to say that defending champion Marielle Thompson has resolved any doubts about her capabilities after sustaining a huge knee injury last October.

Defending silver medalist Kelsey Serwa evidently hasn't lost a step in the intervening four years either.

Edited February 22, 2018 by SeanC

[Souris]

Those crashes in the freestyle hafpipe looked BRUTAL. Thank heavens the guys seemed to be OK eventually. I spent every subsequent run cringing in fear for the skier.

[SeanC]

54 minutes ago, Souris said:

Those crashes in the freestyle hafpipe looked BRUTAL. Thank heavens the guys seemed to be OK eventually. I spent every subsequent run cringing in fear for the skier.

The one where the American came down hard on the edge of the pipe itself made me sure he must have broken an arm or something, but he just got up and walked it off.

[greyhorse]

Well, I guess it wasn't meant to be for Lindsey.  She dominated the downhill, and I thought that cushion would have been big enough for her to win.  Just needed to make it down the slalom clean.  Guess that's slalom for you.  Happy for Mikaela in getting another medal.

[NUguy514]

As soon as it started snowing like that, I thought Lindsey would be toast.  It's all good, though; she got her bronze yesterday, and I'm really happy Mikaela got the silver!

[galaxygirl76]

So I'm confused. Lindsey Vonn will not be in the team event out of fear she could get injured and miss world cup races( aka $$$) but she can compete in an event (the slalom part of the combined) where from what I'm reading she hasn't done any training for in a while because of her knee.

[Tanichka]

So the Vonn show is over?

[Souris]

2 hours ago, Tanichka said:

So the Vonn show is over?

Until she's inevitably on Dancing With the Stars.

[Darknight]

Why do these reporters ask about dead relatives? I mean Lindsay was asked about her dead grandfather and of course she cried. Why ask about that at the Olympics? 

23 hours ago, blackwing said:

I don't get it either.  I get that they still have World Cup races coming up, but if they are going to take the position that this event is "more chances to get injured", then why bother being a professional ski racer at all?  Every trip down the mountain, whether it is training or competition, is a chance to get injured.  Lifting weights is a chance to get injured.  Being alive is a chance to get injured.

Ted Ligety is 33, I think he was saying he was thinking about sticking around another four years.  But Aksel Lund Svindal at 35 is the oldest ever alpine medalist. I'm skeptical that Ligety would be competitive.  This team event was his last chance to represent his country at the Olympics, he was mediocre this time, but oh well.

This emphasizes even more that I find it curious that the French sent Shiffrin's boyfriend home for expressing what is obviously the pervasive mentality amongst all of these skiers.  To them, skiing is an individual sport, they might be from the same country but there is no team in skiing.

What a shame.  Ligety could have ended his Olympic career on a high note with a team medal but chose to do a Shani Davis and say he has to save himself for future individual races.

Shiffrin is 22. She' is young. I don't understand why she pulled out. 

[TimothyQ]

45 minutes ago, Darknight said:

Why do these reporters ask about dead relatives? I mean Lindsay was asked about her dead grandfather and of course she cried. Why ask about that at the Olympics? 

Shiffrin is 22. She' is young. I don't understand why she pulled out. 

Unless Ted, Lindsey, AND Mikaela are all on board for the team competition, it isn’t worth the risk for any one to be competing, only to come in 5th or something. 

[mtlchick]

Meanwhile in women's ski cross, the Canuck Chicks went 1-2 AGAIN.  WOOT!  (Also the lumberjack plaid outfits are awesome.) 

[Cindyluwho]

Oh Canada!

[blackwing]

12 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Meanwhile in women's ski cross, the Canuck Chicks went 1-2 AGAIN.  WOOT!  (Also the lumberjack plaid outfits are awesome.) 

I was hoping for a sweep, but poor Marielle Thompson didn't make it out of the quarters.  Defending champion, had such a hard time with injuries, would have been a great story to medal.  But 1-2 is pretty great!

[Tanichka]

21 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Meanwhile in women's ski cross, the Canuck Chicks went 1-2 AGAIN.  WOOT!  (Also the lumberjack plaid outfits are awesome.) 

Did the silver medalist refuse to wear her medal?

[Eyes High]

CBC Olympics Twitter reports that India Sherret is being assessed and is in stable condition. That crash was awful.

Way to go for the Canadian ladies in ski cross! Loved the way Brittany Phelan fought her way from fourth to second in the final.

[blackwing]

Watching the overnight package on NBC.  Did the Americans really have no entries in Ladies Ski Cross?   There really wasn't one woman good enough to qualify for the field?  I don't think any even skied in the qualifying placement round.  How is this possible?

Paging Elizabeth Swaney... you might have no American competition!

Edited February 23, 2018 by blackwing

[SeanC]

20 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Watching the overnight package on NBC.  Did the Americans really have no entries in Ladies Ski Cross?   There really wasn't one woman good enough to qualify for the field?  I don't think any even skied in the qualifying placement round.  How is this possible?

There weren't any Americans in men's ski cross either.

I have no idea why.  I was going to say that it might just not be a popular discipline in the USA, but in a nation of over 300 million you'd assume there's be at least a couple of elite ski cross athletes.

[KAOS Agent]

I was wondering if ski cross just seems kind of lame to the athletes. I know it takes a bunch of skill but it seems more like it only involves skiing really fast vs the slopestyle/half pipe stuff where cool tricks are involved. And my thoughts were proven correct according to this article. 

“It’s the step child of freestyle, sort of like the parallel giant slalom of snowboarding. Just not enough funding for all to go around, and it markets and targets to an older demo. The pipe, slope and big air are where the youngsters are focusing and the results don’t lie.”

Apparently, the X games don't run ski cross races either and they overlap with the ski cross world cup races being held in Europe, which further limits US participation. So basically, no funding at all in the US, no ski cross courses at North American ski resorts and massive interest in the "cooler" slopestyle/half pipe means very little interest from US skiers.

[blackwing]

I don't see why ski cross is considered lamer than moguls.  Moguls to me is just going around little hills and then doing two jumps.  Ski cross to me looks thrilling.  I love the jockeying for position, the big air, and the unpredictability.  

Team ski event... I see only a handful of bigger names and medalists are competing.  I see Michael Matt (Austria), Frida Hansdotter (Sweden), Andre Myrher (Sweden), Federico Brignone (Italy), Alex Pinturault (France), Wendy Holdener (Switzerland), Ramon Zenhauesern (Switzerland).   Norway looks to have given up.  I expect that this will be between the Austrians, Swedes and Swiss... they seem to be the only ones that really want to win.

[kili]

Quote

 Moguls to me is just going around little hills and then doing two jumps.  

The just make it look easy. I can't even imagine trying to ski mogul fields like those at that speed.  

[blackwing]

24 minutes ago, kili said:

The just make it look easy. I can't even imagine trying to ski mogul fields like those at that speed.  

Oh I'm sure it's hard... I just don't find it as thrilling to watch as ski cross.  All of them are skilled and can navigate the hills and all of them do fairly similar jumps.   Unless there are extra revolutions, I have a hard time discerning why a particular jump is better than someone else's.  In this respect, I think Trace Worthington and Johnny Moseley weren't that great as commentators.  I didn't think there was much analysis.  All they said was things like "she's fast on the upper part of the course... whoa, nicely done 360... clean on the bottom.... here's a cross carrot turn... WOW she nailed it!  And a great time too!"   To me, unless they fall, they all look good.  

Whereas with ski cross, it's a lot more exciting.

[galaxygirl76]

I have no idea what's going on but so far I'm really enjoying this Alpine team event.

[ceecee]

Is it just me, or does the red side seem definitely faster? 

[galaxygirl76]

So I enjoyed the team event so much that I watched the whole thing. It was fun and fast paced. I hope it gains popularity with the skiiers and it'll turn into an event where all the big names want to be part of. 

[blackwing]

I enjoyed the team event but I feel like the course should have been a little longer.  And I do wish more had participated.   It was great to see some who had won medals already skiing again for their country.  Norway got a bronze without anyone that I recognized.  Imagine if they had put in their big guns against the likes of Marcel Hirscher and Mikaela Shiffrin.

[Mittengirl]

Wasn’t parallel ski racing a thing in the Olympics in the past? I swear I remember the Mahre brothers doing it in Sarajevo.

[greyhorse]

16 hours ago, blackwing said:

Oh I'm sure it's hard... I just don't find it as thrilling to watch as ski cross.  All of them are skilled and can navigate the hills and all of them do fairly similar jumps.   Unless there are extra revolutions, I have a hard time discerning why a particular jump is better than someone else's.  In this respect, I think Trace Worthington and Johnny Moseley weren't that great as commentators.  I didn't think there was much analysis.  All they said was things like "she's fast on the upper part of the course... whoa, nicely done 360... clean on the bottom.... here's a cross carrot turn... WOW she nailed it!  And a great time too!"   To me, unless they fall, they all look good.  

Whereas with ski cross, it's a lot more exciting.

Basically they were like Dan Hicks announcing Alpine, making observations that any regular viewer could make.  But then again, how much is there really to to talk about in terms of technique going over a mogul?  I can't tell anything about the tricks, it's hard just to count revolutions, so this whole moguls thing is just a bore to me.

13 hours ago, blackwing said:

I enjoyed the team event but I feel like the course should have been a little longer.  And I do wish more had participated.   It was great to see some who had won medals already skiing again for their country.  Norway got a bronze without anyone that I recognized.  Imagine if they had put in their big guns against the likes of Marcel Hirscher and Mikaela Shiffrin.

Which further is puzzling why all the US stars pulled out.  The next World Cup event isn't until March 17th.  21 days away.  Does not skiing an additional race and maybe one extra day of preparation really make a difference for these fit athletes?  It's really a shame that we didn't get to see them.

13 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

Wasn’t parallel ski racing a thing in the Olympics in the past? I swear I remember the Mahre brothers doing it in Sarajevo.

I don't think it was ever part of the Olympics, but I definitely remember seeing Phil and Steve Mahre doing it on perhaps a Saturday afternoon ABC Wide World of Sports.