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S02.E09: Episode Twenty-Two: Silent Night, Deadly Night


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I don't know, for some reason, on some level, I found the whole thing kind of anti-climatic.  Hardly the worst TV Plot I've ever seen, but I think Riverdale could have done better.   

I don't like the Serpents so I'm not thrilled with the preview and I really don't care about them when they are sequestered on the other side of the show.

I continue to LOVE Hermione Lodge. "Two words. Plausible Deniability."  I have know doubt that for the most part, The Lodges obey the letter of the law, just never the spirit.  I wonder what plans they have cooking for Fred Andrews.  I think one of their strengths is that they for the most part work together.  The Coopers have frequently been counter to each other, and the Blossoms were the same.  The Lodges for the most part, appear to be a united front.   And it looks like Veronica will be getting her act in gear.

Clearly Cheryl saw Archie and Betty kissing, no doubt waiting for when it will do the most damage.  Betty blackmailed her, Veronica bested her, Archie turned her down and she loathes Jughead for his role in everything, so she is going to get to throw a gut punch to quite a few people with whom she feels she has a score to settle.  

I think I want more scenes with Veronica and Reggie.  Not in the romantic sense, at least not anytime soon, but he's just so crass and seems so unimpressed with Veronica and that's not something we see often.  I think they have good acting chemistry.

Wish we had more Kevin this episode.

Penelope Blossom RADIATES bitterness and resentment.  It's fascinating to watch.

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Jughead took a dark turn here, and I really didn’t want that to happen. I don’t know if there’s any going back from kidnapping someone, and then removing a tattoo with a knife. Is the show just going to act like he had to do it? I guess sensitive Jughead is gone. Because that was really not okay.

Nana Rose Is the most underused character on the show.

The Black Hood storyline was a letdown.

I did like Betty bullying the nun!

Who was with Penelope at the end?

In the pilot Betty was returning from an internship with Toni Morrison, which was really random. But that was some nice continuity with Jughead giving her Beloved because Toni Morrison is her favorite author. 

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I love -- LOVE -- that the Blossoms have this picture above their mantel, right next to their Christmas tree.  "You should have drowned them at birth, like a basket of kittens."  HA!

Also:  "Mad About My Archikins" on the watch Veronica gave Archie -- wasn't the cigarette case Gloria Swanson gave William Holden in Sunset Boulevard inscribed with "Mad About the Boy"?  Is Archie gonna end up face-down in a pool, shot in the back by Ronnie?  Hee.

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18 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

Clearly Cheryl saw Archie and Betty kissing, no doubt waiting for when it will do the most damage.

Probably, though you'd think that both Archie and Betty have a pretty solid Ross Geller defense.

So Jughead cut Penny's tattoo off with a switchblade?  Hardcore.

So glad to have Nana Rose back.

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I'm here for darkest timeline jughead and dark betty.. I can't wait for Cheryl to drop that kiss bomb... Lookin fwd to the southsiders invading the school... This blk hiid ended dumb.. But it was always stupid so no matter... 

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Who was with Penelope at the end?

Yes please, who was that? Were we supposed to know or was it some rando? Ah, Cheryl, always beats everybody in the Fucked Up Family Olympics.

If anybody can post screen shots of the various notes with the gifts I'd be grateful because I couldn't read any of them. Also, Jug, if you end up losing Betty at this point it's all on you. Anybody who buys you an Underwood needs an in person thank you.

I really don't get the whole Mr Svenson is the Black Hood thing at all. He clearly did not have the same color eyes as the guy who shot Fred! Like, there should have been a mention of him wearing colored contacts or SOMETHING, and I don't get why he fixated on Betty when there was a group of five in that picture. Did none of the rest of them have kids, or what? And why the hell was Svenson so intent on outright killing both Fred and Archie? There were way too many loose ends here. 

The Archie Betty kiss actually happened much more organically than I thought it would--that's the kind of impulsive, "I've got your back" thing I can see happening between any two characters on this show in that kind of heightened situation, and it didn't seem to come across as awkward later; of course, there was the whole Just Almost Got Buried Alive And Saw A Man Shot thing going on, so they weren't having a heart to heart.

I'm actually glad Archie and Veronica got back together; they have a good connection. Of course now that Ronnie's gone Full Lodge Ahead this might be something a little more nefarious than "I realize how much I miss you." And what's with the photos? It's not like it's a secret that they were dating. I wonder how Fred will feel about having his debt transferred to his near-miss affair partner? 

(Speaking of which, the fake names were especially hilarious this time out; Spiffany's? Fabul-ge? American Excess? Cute.)

I'm getting heartily sick of the whole gang storyline, honestly. Although Jughead leading the younger Serpents is a helluva lot more believable than thinking hardcore bikers like Tall Boy would listen to this kid, the entire fraught father/son thing is getting truly exhausting. It works better with Jughead on the outside, not trying to be co-leader. (Their takedown of Penny was impressively hardcore, though. Damn.)

I still don't get why her "evidence" against Jughead meant anything--all it is is him and Archie dropping off a crate. That's IT. For it to mean anything she'd have to reveal what was in them and that would clearly get her killed by Russian Scary Lady, so exactly what is her leverage here? Also, when did Penny snag the drugs/Kthulu eggs/whatever franchise in the first place? The Ghoulies got busted like, a week ago! When it was summer and Cheryl was sunning by the pool! And now it's Christmas! The time/space warp in Riverdale is growing.

Since Cheryl's forgotten she's a stalker Josie got sidelined again this week. Groan. The second half of the season should focus less on an overarching mystery and a lot more on the characters' various lives. They've got TONS of stuff set up, run with it already.

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Well, that was  boring and stupid. Normally I'm all about the gothic cheese that is this show, but that was a big let down.

 

I can deal with the "teens" playing kid detective, and trying to save a janitor that appeared out of no where a few episodes ago to be the Black Hood. But I really want them to be smart about it. If you're going to dig up a grave that a killer led you to in a park in the middle of the night, at least have one of you watch your surroundings. I suppose I should be thankful that they *finally* called an adult, the sheriff no less, to help and meet them there.

 

But that brings up the question of what took the sheriff so long to get there? I fail to believe Archie could dig up a grave that quickly no matter how fresh and loose it was unless he's the physical manifestation of Dig Dug. I guess I should just be thankful that the sheriff managed to show up at all to prevent Archie from having to shoot someone. If you don't want to kill him, shoot him in the stomach area. Besides, the whole double fake out just seems stupid beyond measure.

 

Jug took a turn for the dark. I can't forgive and like someone who goes around cutting off a tattoo just to get them out of a gang. Use your brains and get her thrown in jail. I'm also over Veronica referring to everyone as -kins. Archiekins was bad enough, but daddykins is too much. This may be a comic thing, but it just feels and sounds wrong.

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Over at AV Club somebody pointed out that Svenson couldn't be the Black Hood because of the Grundy murder, and he's right. That murder happened in Greendale, not Riverdale, and wasn't witnessed by any Riverdale character. And we were clearly shown the guy and his green eyes, the same as the guy who shot Fred. 

So I'm guessing Svenson, who obviously has heard, along with everybody else in town, about the BH, just finally snapped and impersonated him out of guilt for wrongful identification or whatever. But he definitely did not commit any of the shootings or Grundy's murder. Whiiiiich means we're going to have to keep hearing about this whole goulash of confusing "drama" for the second half of the season.

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I don't think Svenson was the Black Hood.  My guess is The Black Hood had kidnapped him, cut off his finger, and then threatened him or blackmailed him in some way to make him go impersonate him in front of Betty and Archie.  Then he got shot before he could say he wasn't really the Hood.  Remember, Archie had originally said that he had looked into their eyes and that Svenson wasn't the Black Hood.

Not sure if they will continue the story right away or leave it lay for awhile before picking it back up again.  Or maybe they're leaving it open ended, so they have the option to return to it if they want.

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Archer after hearing that Fred's hospital bill was $86,000: "Dollars?!"  No, Archie.  Riverdale Medical only accepts payment through maple syrup or Jingle Jangle.  And since the syrup business is a bit dry, it's time to start asking Reggie for some more of that Jangle, buddy!  I swear, that kid really is daft at times (and by that I mean, 90% of the time.)

Taking everything at face value, Svenson being the Black Hood is quite underwhelming, due to barely even knowing the guy for only about two episodes.  That said, there is a whole bunch of questions and other off moments that make me think there is way more to this.  Right now, I'm keeping my eye on Keller because him suddenly showing up and shooting him dead seems suspicious to me.  Or maybe it's just me being shocked that he's actually a good shot, because that would mean Keller is actually good at something.

As much as I love the main cast, I really could watch an entire episode about the Blossoms.  Cheryl is obviously my favorite gorgeous, ginger ball of crazy, but Penelope and Nana Rose are just as delightfully nuts as she is!

Jughead's getting just a wee bit too close now to going all Sons of Anarchy on this show.  FP will probably end up being right that he's done is made Penny an even bigger enemy for life.

Veronica uses her parents credit card to pay for Fred's bill (way to keep an eye on your stuff there, Lodges), and is getting even deeper into whatever crazy shit they are up too.

Unsurprisingly, Archie and Betty kiss, but it seems like it was just an one time where Betty is already too occupied with everything else and good old Archie the Goofus has already forgotten about it now that Veronica has finally admitted that she loves him back.  You know who probably didn't forget that kiss?  Cheryl!

Reggie only had about one line, but still cracked me up.  Kevin and Josie sang a bit, which I guess is.... nice?

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Listen, Cheryl Blossom and her family are giving me some VC Andrews vibes and I’m here for it. Major eyeroll at that “Santa” BS though.

Other eyeroll worthy moments:

The entire Black Hood saga - I mentioned in a previous thread my gripes with it and how the show literally does not need it. Still feel that way. If the guy were a regular robber running around committing crimes the season could’ve been the same (or even better!) without the need for all of this sinners BS. The writers clearly don’t know what they are doing here and it showed during that wrap up at the diner. Don’t worry Jughead, the writers got nothing too.

 

Well, this episode was probably the first time I believed that the Serpents were a gang. Yikes. I like that the show didn’t pull punches with that but I don’t really see where Jughead’s loyalty came from. I came up with they treat him like family and he didn’t have one blah blah but I shouldn’t have to make shit up show! Not interested in that school storyline they got coming up though.

Dark Betty. I’ll be at my lonely table of one and say that I don’t see what’s the big deal. She wore an awful wig and got revenge on a boy who treated girls like crap. (Unless I’m forgotting something.) Saw no sign of it since. 

I’m interested in the Lodges because I swear they remind me of every telenovela I use to watch with my mom back in the day. LOL.

More Reggie! More fun! More parents! Or maybe just Skeet. Damn. I looked up how he looked on Scream (on the advice of a fellow poster!) and he has gotten better with age. ;)

Edited by kissedbyarose
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4 hours ago, Snookums said:

(Speaking of which, the fake names were especially hilarious this time out; Spiffany's? Fabul-ge? American Excess? Cute.)

It was Glamour-ge egg, but the fake names were top notch. Spiffany's is especially hilarious because I'm pretty sure they've actually name dropped Tiffany's in season 1. 

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Archer after hearing that Fred's hospital bill was $86,000: "Dollars?!"  No, Archie.  Riverdale Medical only accepts payment through maple syrup or Jingle Jangle.  And since the syrup business is a bit dry, it's time to start asking Reggie for some more of that Jangle, buddy!  I swear, that kid really is daft at times (and by that I mean, 90% of the time.)

 

At this point the hospital should  demand to be paid solely by receiving the weather control machine that's in the basement of the school or Pop's or wherever they keep it. Last year it was All Snow All The Time as the kids ran around in miniskirts and bare arms; this year Cheryl was apparently sunbathing two weeks before a flake-free Christmas season.

But yeah, Archie's Littlest Spongebob routine is adorably hilarious: you can tell by the microsecond pause before Fred answers him that he can't believe he raised such a doofus.

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13 hours ago, Snookums said:

When it was summer and Cheryl was sunning by the pool! And now it's Christmas!

I think Cheryl has magic powers, and she can change the weather based around what outfit she wants to wear. I love Cheryl and her family, they're just one crazy Gothic mess. So glad that Nana Rose is back, she really adds to the Gothic, Blossom atmosphere. I also loved Cheryl at the gift exchange. And telling her mom how much she sucks. I just love Cheryl. 

Old man Svenson! The creepy janitor! He would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids! If he really is the Black Hood, thats a pretty lame ending. It was the obviously creepy guy who we met two episodes ago? SHOCKING! I think he might have a partner or something, I dont think this is over. Granted, I cant say I am super excited about this story going on for longer, but this is a real disappointment. 

I do like Betty and Archie as friends, but I dont see much romantic chemistry between them. On the other hand, Jughead is going so dark, I dont see him and Betty being in a cute high school romance for much longer. I mean, cutting a tattoo off a person, even a bad person, is pretty freaking nasty. Since when is Jug so gun ho about being a serpent anyway? It just seems to have come out of nowhere. And, not that I know much about the inner workings of gangs, but if they weren't running drugs or guns, what makes the Serpents an actual gang? Just being thugs for hire? Or are they just a really pretentious leather bar? 

I think even Jughead was shocked that he didn't have anything to close things out on. But of course, narrator smurf found his mojo at the end. I did think the gifts they got each other were really cute.

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17 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

I like Betty, but I really hope that one day some adult on this show will tell her that something is none of her damn business.

That would be amazing. The crap that Betty gets away with is rather stunning (threatening the lady at Our Sisters of Quiet Mercy, accusing the town sheriff of being a serial killer, the list goes on). I'd like to know her secret. 

17 hours ago, Jeddah said:

Jughead took a dark turn here, and I really didn’t want that to happen. I don’t know if there’s any going back from kidnapping someone, and then removing a tattoo with a knife. Is the show just going to act like he had to do it? I guess sensitive Jughead is gone. Because that was really not okay.

Ugh. This made me so sad. Sweet, sensitive Jughead doing this was awful. I know he's doing it to protect his dad and the Serpents as a whole, and Penny IS pretty awful. But literally skinning her seems excessive as hell. Not sure how I feel about the extremely dark turn that Jughead has taken. 

14 hours ago, Snookums said:

I really don't get the whole Mr Svenson is the Black Hood thing at all. He clearly did not have the same color eyes as the guy who shot Fred! Like, there should have been a mention of him wearing colored contacts or SOMETHING, and I don't get why he fixated on Betty when there was a group of five in that picture. Did none of the rest of them have kids, or what? And why the hell was Svenson so intent on outright killing both Fred and Archie? There were way too many loose ends here. 

I'm actually glad Archie and Veronica got back together; they have a good connection. Of course now that Ronnie's gone Full Lodge Ahead this might be something a little more nefarious than "I realize how much I miss you." And what's with the photos? It's not like it's a secret that they were dating. I wonder how Fred will feel about having his debt transferred to his near-miss affair partner? 

Since Cheryl's forgotten she's a stalker Josie got sidelined again this week. Groan. The second half of the season should focus less on an overarching mystery and a lot more on the characters' various lives. They've got TONS of stuff set up, run with it already.

They focused on the eye thing so heavily. Even this episode, after they caught Svenson, they made a point of mentioning again how the eyes didn't match. I really and truly do not think that the Black Hood saga is truly over. Especially with that final scene of Betty keeping the hood and looking all sinister. 

I am really glad about Archie and Veronica too. However now you mention it, the timing is a little suspect, and it's quite convenient that after Ronnie was able to say the big L-word after how it was SUCH a big deal last week that she couldn't. And now I too suspect nefariousness, especially after Hermoine said they could use Fred in the next step of their plan (which WTF is this plan? What are the Lodges doing? It's cool that Veronica got caught up to date, but we are still in the dark). I hope not though, because I really do like Archie and Veronica together. They obviously do care about each other alot, and are really good for each other. And I need a couple to root for, because as much as I adore Bughead, at this point in the season, they should absolutely NOT be together. 

Also, huge word to the last point. They HAVE set up a lot. Hopefully they can now focus on some of that, and not try and run through an insane amount of plot at a rapidfire pace. 

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Archer after hearing that Fred's hospital bill was $86,000: "Dollars?!"  No, Archie.  Riverdale Medical only accepts payment through maple syrup or Jingle Jangle.  And since the syrup business is a bit dry, it's time to start asking Reggie for some more of that Jangle, buddy!  I swear, that kid really is daft at times (and by that I mean, 90% of the time.)

BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! I needed this laugh! 

9 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

It was Glamour-ge egg, but the fake names were top notch. Spiffany's is especially hilarious because I'm pretty sure they've actually name dropped Tiffany's in season 1. 

I think someone needs to make a masterlist of all of the fake names...Spiffany's. American Excess. The Matchelorette. All so epic. And least this brings some levity to this show. Almost makes me miss the Cover Girl closeups from last season. Almost. 

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I think Cheryl has magic powers, and she can change the weather based around what outfit she wants to wear. I love Cheryl and her family, they're just one crazy Gothic mess. So glad that Nana Rose is back, she really adds to the Gothic, Blossom atmosphere. I also loved Cheryl at the gift exchange. And telling her mom how much she sucks. I just love Cheryl. 

I do like Betty and Archie as friends, but I dont see much romantic chemistry between them. On the other hand, Jughead is going so dark, I dont see him and Betty being in a cute high school romance for much longer. I mean, cutting a tattoo off a person, even a bad person, is pretty freaking nasty. Since when is Jug so gun ho about being a serpent anyway? It just seems to have come out of nowhere. And, not that I know much about the inner workings of gangs, but if they weren't running drugs or guns, what makes the Serpents an actual gang? Just being thugs for hire? Or are they just a really pretentious leather bar? 

 

Seriously! We need more Cheryl. There better be more Cheryl post-holiday break. She's crazy as hell, but she is funny and amazing, and I just need more! There is and should be more to this show than the Core Four, for crying out loud. 

I think Jughead's character may have undergone the biggest 180 since last season. And that's saying a lot. Last season, he was broken and had darkness, sure. But he was also incredibly smart and sensitive and fairly sweet and funny. And he was so anti-Serpent. But this season????????? The hell? 

38 minutes ago, Dee said:

Interesting that Veronica & Betty haven't felt compelled to tell Josie & Kevin that Sierra & Tom are having an affair. So much for 'friendship.'

I'm gonna chalk this one up to the writers, and say that they probably forgot that they even introduced this storyline *eyeroll* 

So sure, we had the Black Hood “reveal” this episode. And yeah, Betty kissed Archie. And OK, Jughead literally skinned another human being. Not to mention Veronica being seemingly fully brought into the Lodge family “business” happenings and dealings. But I want to unpack what really matters...

Yo, Kevin...why was your Secret Santa gift exchange at school? Jughead doesn’t even go there? You really couldn’t of have it at Pop’s or someone’s house or something? Did you have to rent the student lounge? Isn’t it an open area for the whole student body? Why weren’t people crashing this gift exchange? Also, why was Cheryl a part of it? I love her to bits, but she’s barely friends with the gang. What qualifications were needed to be a part of this gift exchange? And I want to know what other gifts were purchased? Like, who got Jughead? And what did they buy him? He’s a badass gang member now. I doubt any gifts/regifts will quell his badassedness. I need answers!

And lastly, all I want for Christmas is to crawl through my TV screen, and give Jughead a big hug, and take him the hell away from Riverdale. His wardrobe would fit in real good in my Canadian city. I just want to feed him cookies and burgers (but also salads, because he deserves healthy nutrients), and protect him and take care of him...

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Man!  Archie and Veronica are back together? I wanted all the couples to stay broken up for a while. I need all the characters to mix it up a bit more. I liked Betty and Archie investigating together like friends. Now we need more mixing Jug/Archie maybe some Josie/Veronica or Ronnie/Cheryl, Kevin/Cheryl, Jug/Ronnie.  I don't know go crazy!  And please please some more FP/Alice. 

I finally liked a full episode again. (Except I FF through Jugs speech and mutilation of a woman because I just don't buy it - can't take a newly minted teenage gang member seriously and Cole is still too Disney for that to fly). 

probably knowing Bughead fans heads might have exploded a little made me giggle and lean in in this ep.  Mean yes but I'm convinced unfortunately that ship isn't over and it's going to be much ado about nothing. 

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1 hour ago, AdorkableSars said:

They focused on the eye thing so heavily. Even this episode, after they caught Svenson, they made a point of mentioning again how the eyes didn't match. I really and truly do not think that the Black Hood saga is truly over. Especially with that final scene of Betty keeping the hood and looking all sinister. 

 

Guessing 100% there was 2 Black Hoods - Svenson and Chic Cooper. One seeking vengeance/penance and the other with the Betty obsession.  They met at Sisters of Mercy and that is where the saga began.  

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Rewatcthing the episode right now while having an overzealous kitten on my chest...

The episode was somewhat of a let down just because it wasn't the end of the blackhood as predicted... And how strange it was for Sheriff Keller to come over after some time and shoot poor Mr. Svensson, hmmm.. This is far from the end and I am intrigued, who was part of the vigilante retaliation squad?? Nana Blossom and GP Cooper, maybe a GP keller, Andrews  and a jones? I'm getting more interested in what the hell the adults have done in their younger days/generations for things being the way they are now today!!! THey really should have flash backs!!! Ok, so we're lead to believe it was Mr.Svensson but it probably isn't... It was such a let down to have a nobody get blamed for everything... i'll have to hand it to the show thought, I am intrigued!! there is, as always, many unresolved questions... And now we may understand why he kept looking at Cheryl so often? Because maybe he was reminded of his mistake??

Okay, the overdrama of evertything made me not care or cringe when BH had caught betty and archie... She was crying and whining about not getting killed while burying a live Archie... Sorry, didn't feel it... Is it me or is it sooo glamorous that sometimes I feel like laughing?!?!... (probably just me ) Like someone commented about the Lodges, its like watching a telenovela!!

The Loddges!!! MY god, what the hell are they up to!!!! Veronica knows now and is playing her part but is she also doing that for Archie or is she being genuine?!?! I'm a bit suspicious about that!! And what the hell are they going to do to poor Fred Andrews? Blame him for something bad that's going to happen?

Ok, the whole Barchie event.. Ok, they kissed, it turned out way more "innocent" than expected... In a sense I liked it that it was Betty that went for it than the other way around, made ARchie seemed more innocent in all of this... Ok, so it happened but even if Betty appared to do it out of the desperation of the moment or the fact that she was panicking , it looked as though she realized what she really was doing when she pulled away before brushing it off... It reminded me a lot of that chat that they had in the season finale after Archie went over to Betty to ask if she -really- was okay with him + veronica, they barely touched the surface before Betty sorta closed the subject, not wanting to talk about "it"... it seemed like part 2 of whatever it is that's lurking in their minds...

And Jughead, my god, what the hell are they doing to him? What the hell are they planning for him?!?! I swear my theory of him writing this from prison is seeming like a good one for each episode... He's not even going dark, he IS dark and WTF!!!! Skinning someone's skin off?!?! This is when the "romance" of biker gangs pretty much ended for me! I want this storyline to stop (even though I doubt it will). The only good thing that I could comment is that Jughead finally seems like he's nurturing his Serpent world, he is so into it that it's like, where did that kid go from season 1? the one that hated everything that had to do with the serpents? What the hell happened to that!! Even FP doesn't seem to know what to do with him!!! Can he really become a leader? Eugh.... AFter this, I just know that FP won't make it out alive after this season's end.... Penny will come back with a vengeance and maybe some help from that Russian lady in Greendale!! Hey, you think penny or the Russian lady might become the baddy on Sabrina?!?!

Oh and those pictures being taken of Archie... I'm wondering if its mostly pictures of Veronica that the photographer was after, not archie... I have a theory of someone (FBI) going after the lodges hence the pictures being taken...  

What makes it super weird in that super show, is the guy can out there, kidnap + injure someone, and still have the time afterwards to go to the diner to "hang out" with his friends!!! AND opening his presents and be happy with them... really?!?!?

As specified in another thread, I am so happy for that little exchange of words between Jug and Betty... IF that's what we have to go for, then go for it. I have no idea what's in store for everyone but i'll take it... They are sooooo not over each other, it's just a simply bump on that goddawful road that the writers are paving... lol... And the gifts to one another, super sweet....

 

1 hour ago, AdorkableSars said:

So sure, we had the Black Hood “reveal” this episode. And yeah, Betty kissed Archie. And OK, Jughead literally skinned another human being. Not to mention Veronica being seemingly fully brought into the Lodge family “business” happenings and dealings. But I want to unpack what really matters...

Yo, Kevin...why was your Secret Santa gift exchange at school? Jughead doesn’t even go there? You really couldn’t of have it at Pop’s or someone’s house or something? Did you have to rent the student lounge? Isn’t it an open area for the whole student body? Why weren’t people crashing this gift exchange? Also, why was Cheryl a part of it? I love her to bits, but she’s barely friends with the gang. What qualifications were needed to be a part of this gift exchange? And I want to know what other gifts were purchased? Like, who got Jughead? And what did they buy him? He’s a badass gang member now. I doubt any gifts/regifts will quell his badassedness. I need answers!

LOL!!! Thiis!!! now THAT's what matters!!! I'm pretty sure Reggie was giving some JJ to his secret santa....

And I haven't had any education in the US so i'm unaware of how things work down there but do high schools really let ANYONE inside schools without checking them out first!!!

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And lastly, all I want for Christmas is to crawl through my TV screen, and give Jughead a big hug, and take him the hell away from Riverdale. His wardrobe would fit in real good in my Canadian city. I just want to feed him cookies and burgers (but also salads, because he deserves healthy nutrients), and protect him and take care of him...

You know jughead would probably sniff at that salad and probably toss that back at you right?!?! lol!!!

 

Ok, final note, ouhhhh, i'm so excited for the next episode.... SSH students are transferring to Riverdale!!! That twitter pic a while back was quite revealing but I didn't think it would happen so quickly tbh... But why the sudden rivalry?!!? Jughead and Reggie have been in the same room several times but now they hate each other more than usual? Weren't the Riverdale kids + Serpents at the same car race, why didn't they fight then? Continuity is a fickle bitch sometimes...

I'll stop my ranting now...

Edited by PeekaBoo
  • Love 2
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The Black Hood reveal definitely seemed anticlimactic to me. Definitely more going on there.

Also, the past few episodes I keep thinking that the son that Mama Cooper had to give up is Betty and Jughead's half brother...

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Ok, so, you all warned me about Juggy cutting the tattoo off a woman's arm but DAMN! He fucking cut the tattoo off a woman's arm? The FUCK man!??!!

I am pleasantly surprised to see V and Arch back together so quickly, though V now being part of the "family business" is probably going to end them again. They may not be breaking laws, but the Lodges are not good people. 

My dark little FB/Alice shipper couldn't help but think for a split second that FP was so eager for Juggy to go thank Betty because he wanted to drive him over to maybe run into Alice. haha

Thank god for the Blossom Family. My god are they wonderful. How do you not love a grandmother who regrets that her grandchildren weren't drown at birth. The poisoned berry doesn't fall far from the tree in that family. Honestly, the Blossoms were the only thing I liked about this episode, and the V saying ILY back to Archie. That was a sweet moment. The rest, the Black Hood and Serpents stuff sucked as all things Black Hood and Serpents tend to do. 

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12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I think Cheryl has magic powers, and she can change the weather based around what outfit she wants to wear.

Maybe they can bring in Sabrina the teen aged witch.

I agree that the Christmas gifts that they got each other were cute.  It was also nice to see Veronica return Archie's "I love you".  I was afraid they were going to hook him up with Betty for awhile.

It's funny to see all the posts here saying how much they enjoy Cheryl Blossom this week, because a few weeks back most of the posts were saying they were taking her character too far off the deep end, and she was getting to be too silly.

There was a line on Big Bang Theory tonight that seems appropriate, considering the Jughead tattoo slicing incident.  Raj was making fun of Howard for reading an Archie comic, and Howard held up a comic from the Archie horror line and said:  "Werewolf Jughead is not your father's Jughead".  That could apply well here too.

Edited by rmontro
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6 minutes ago, rmontro said:

It's funny to see all the post here saying how much they enjoy Cheryl Blossom this week, because a few weeks back most of the posts were saying they were taking her character too far off the deep end, and she was getting to be too silly.

It's the lack of melanin.

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Hermione APPALONIA Lodge.

13 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

My dark little FB/Alice shipper couldn't help but think for a split second that FP was so eager for Juggy to go thank Betty because he wanted to drive him over to maybe run into Alice. haha

OMG yes. I wonder how he would have reacted to Alice in her apron making cookies. 

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16 hours ago, PeekaBoo said:

You know jughead would probably sniff at that salad and probably toss that back at you right?!?! lol!!!

 

LOL! Good point! I'd have to find a way to hide the vegetables...

10 hours ago, Snookums said:

Now, now...Jughead may be a badass gangster who slices tattoos of people now, but he's not rude.

Hahaha!!!!! That's right, he's nice young man. And I would teach him to slice tomatoes instead of tattoos!

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28 minutes ago, AdorkableSars said:

LOL! Good point! I'd have to find a way to hide the vegetables...

Hahaha!!!!! That's right, he's nice young man. And I would teach him to slice tomatoes instead of tattoos!

"Ohhh, so knives can be used for something else than evil" ! Lol... 

1 hour ago, MaggieG said:

Hermione APPALONIA Lodge.

OMG yes. I wonder how he would have reacted to Alice in her apron making cookies. 

He would probably shake his head and wonder how his serpent queen ended up like a betty Crocker paper cut out... 

 

And appalonia? What a cool name. 

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1 hour ago, Nancypants said:

Who was the guy on the couch with Cheryls mom at the end?

It was the guy from the Christmas tree lot.  Remember, Cheryl's mom was concerned with how they were going to pay for the Christmas tree and all.  Apparently they worked something out.  :)

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Hmmmm, okay.

1. I don't think Svenson/Conway was the real BH. He clearly was involved in some capacity, as the things he did by the burial plot were not ambiguous or forced enough, but this wasn't a one-person operation. Other shows will set up a patsy that initially looks like the bad guy (like sending an innocent person out in front of armed police with a gun taped to his hand and his mouth glued shut so he can't say, this is a ruse), but Svenson did and said too much to be a set-up. By all accounts he seemed alone in life, but I guess it's possible that there was someone he really cared about that the BH threatened to extort Svenson into doing what he did.

2. If Svenson really is the BH, I really need to know more about how he knew about Betty and her childhood Nancy Drew reading. I will not be satisfied with anything short of, he's the janitor equivalent of Mr. Feeney from Boy Meets World, who started out as a janitor at Riverdale Elementary, followed Betty to work at Riverdale Middle School, and then followed her again to Riverdale High School (or whatever the north side's HS is called).

3. The only way Archie could be any dumber about the real world and the $86,000 hospital bill is if he thought he could pay it back in the form of his fabulous acoustic slow jams.

4. I'm looking forward to the Lodges talking about driving a Waudi and wearing Lecrouton shoes.

5. I really wish Jughead had addressed the Penny problem with his brain and using the breadcrumb that Penny gave him earlier (about how every snake has a soft underbelly). Surely she has a weakness of her own. I wish Jughead had uncovered and leveraged that. And if he wanted to physically nullify her Serpent tattoo, I wish he had just taken a permanent marker and drawn a happy face over it. I don't know how you walk him back and redeem his character after ganging up on a woman and physically shedding blood and disfigurement through brute force. I'm all for characters evolving over time (vs. for anything to be viewed as in-character, it has to work with how the character was in season 1), but Jughead is going off the rails.

6. Cheryl being broke means she's going to have to rely on only free/cheap ways to stalk Josie and chase away other people who like her. She'll have to make purchases like pig hearts work in her budget. Though Cheryl strikes me as enterprising enough to get complementary pig hearts from someone.

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On 12/14/2017 at 3:48 AM, rmontro said:

I don't think Svenson was the Black Hood.  My guess is The Black Hood had kidnapped him, cut off his finger, and then threatened him or blackmailed him in some way to make him go impersonate him in front of Betty and Archie.  Then he got shot before he could say he wasn't really the Hood.  Remember, Archie had originally said that he had looked into their eyes and that Svenson wasn't the Black Hood.

Not sure if they will continue the story right away or leave it lay for awhile before picking it back up again.  Or maybe they're leaving it open ended, so they have the option to return to it if they want.

I was surprised Archie himself didn't point this out. It seemed very odd.

On 12/14/2017 at 4:42 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Archer after hearing that Fred's hospital bill was $86,000: "Dollars?!"  No, Archie.  Riverdale Medical only accepts payment through maple syrup or Jingle Jangle.  And since the syrup business is a bit dry, it's time to start asking Reggie for some more of that Jangle, buddy!  I swear, that kid really is daft at times (and by that I mean, 90% of the time.)

This made me laugh, too. And reminded me of a conversation with my dad about how his friend bought a (now $450 000) townhouse for "eighty", and my incredulous reaction.

2 hours ago, sweetandsour said:

5. I really wish Jughead had addressed the Penny problem with his brain and using the breadcrumb that Penny gave him earlier (about how every snake has a soft underbelly). Surely she has a weakness of her own. I wish Jughead had uncovered and leveraged that. And if he wanted to physically nullify her Serpent tattoo, I wish he had just taken a permanent marker and drawn a happy face over it. I don't know how you walk him back and redeem his character after ganging up on a woman and physically shedding blood and disfigurement through brute force. I'm all for characters evolving over time (vs. for anything to be viewed as in-character, it has to work with how the character was in season 1), but Jughead is going off the rails.

Well, it's not like permanent marker would be permanent on skin. Would it have been better to knock her out and tattoo over it? I don't like this Serpent storyline, but I dislike Penny more and would be more than happy for her to drop off the face of the earth, so I don't mind Jughead acting temporarily insane so that we can (hopefully) forget that this storyline ever happened.

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7 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Well, it's not like permanent marker would be permanent on skin. Would it have been better to knock her out and tattoo over it? I don't like this Serpent storyline, but I dislike Penny more and would be more than happy for her to drop off the face of the earth, so I don't mind Jughead acting temporarily insane so that we can (hopefully) forget that this storyline ever happened.

Yes, I don't want it to be permanent. I think permanent non-consensual body modification is a line a protagonist can't really cross, no matter what his reasons for being so crazy are, especially to someone who hasn't done something so unconscionable. (Like I understand if people are fine with that tattoo scene in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, although I wasn't.) Even permanently altering the tattoo slightly so it doesn't match the standard Serpent tattoos is too over the line for me. And laser tattoo removal doesn't make it like the new ink was never there and it's very painful. There ARE other options, Jug.

I don't really know why Jughead took the approach that he had to change/remove the tattoo permanently. A symbolic gesture of the young Serpents kicking her out in a show of, "you're not a Serpent so get the hell out and enjoy your banishment to Greendale" would have been fine with me, hence the short-term nature of a permanent marker. But I guess he was full steam ahead, no holds barred, I have no choice, I will disfigure your arm / modify your body against your will. (It's not really clear how much damage they do - maybe it was "just" a slash through the tattoo, but Jughead, come on.)

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2 hours ago, secnarf said:

I was surprised Archie himself didn't point this out. It seemed very odd.

He did bring up that he had looked into his eyes and didn't think it was him before, but said he must have been mistaken.  I'm not buying that, it's too convenient.

 

2 hours ago, sweetandsour said:

I have no choice, I will disfigure your arm / modify your body against your will. (It's not really clear how much damage they do - maybe it was "just" a slash through the tattoo, but Jughead, come on.)

Betty has her dark side, and obviously Jughead does too.

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11 hours ago, sweetandsour said:

Yes, I don't want it to be permanent. I think permanent non-consensual body modification is a line a protagonist can't really cross, no matter what his reasons for being so crazy are, especially to someone who hasn't done something so unconscionable.

Yes, it is not Jughead's place to decide what Penny has on her body. 

The right thing to do would be to tell her that "Ink doesn't make you a Serpent. You can get as many tattoos as you want, it does not make you a part of something. You are no longer a Serpent. All that tattoo is now is a reminder of the family you lost." 

I mean, it's a fucking tattoo. It doesn't mean anything. I could go get a Serpent tattoo, does that automatically make me one of them, and the only way out is to have it removed? Was FP going to get his removed when he said he was done? It's a fucking symbol and no one has the right to mutilate another person just because they are pissed about being tricked into moving a crate. 

Honestly, the Serpents are as much to blame as Penny. They were fine using her legal help but when they don't like the price they assault her. Nope. I really hate Jughead right now. It will be hard, near impossible, to come back from this. It was a BAD decision on the writers part to have Jug go that dark. I mean, if Betty does something that pisses him off is he going to have a gang hold her down and mutilate her body? 

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4 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Yes, it is not Jughead's place to decide what Penny has on her body. 

The right thing to do would be to tell her that "Ink doesn't make you a Serpent. You can get as many tattoos as you want, it does not make you a part of something. You are no longer a Serpent. All that tattoo is now is a reminder of the family you lost." 

I mean, it's a fucking tattoo. It doesn't mean anything. I could go get a Serpent tattoo, does that automatically make me one of them, and the only way out is to have it removed? Was FP going to get his removed when he said he was done? It's a fucking symbol and no one has the right to mutilate another person just because they are pissed about being tricked into moving a crate. 

Honestly, the Serpents are as much to blame as Penny. They were fine using her legal help but when they don't like the price they assault her. Nope. I really hate Jughead right now. It will be hard, near impossible, to come back from this. It was a BAD decision on the writers part to have Jug go that dark. I mean, if Betty does something that pisses him off is he going to have a gang hold her down and mutilate her body? 

I totally get you!

Has Jug gone sooo dark and crazy with finally belonging somewhere AND wanting to save the south side and his dad that he's willing to physically hurt someone else?!?!

The guy has totally lost his head and god knows what the hell he's going through or what he's thinking... The Serpents managed to corrupt himin the space of what, 2-4- weeks?

I have no idea what they're going to do with him but I can't see him going back to the guy in the first season... I think he's gone now... and maybe with this crazy show, he'll be the new boss?? at 16 freaking years old?!?!

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On 12/14/2017 at 0:44 AM, Richness said:

I'm also over Veronica referring to everyone as -kins. Archiekins was bad enough, but daddykins is too much. This may be a comic thing, but it just feels and sounds wrong.

This was beyond ick. Daddy from a girl her age is bad enough, then they made it even grosser.  It also always reminds me of how grossly over privileged she is, I think this episode might have been the first time she realized the US has a problem with medical expenses.   I'm not looking for a socialist screed in the middle of an episode, but can they show the teens on this show working hard at something?  Like school, or an after school job? They seem to have unlimited free time and no responsibilities, or parental oversight.  Then they turn around and try to tell their parents what to do, how am I supposed to like these people?

I'm starting to like Archie the best.  He's kind of dopey and useless, but at least he works on stuff.  He works for his dads company over the summer, then sells christmas trees, everyone else just spends 100% of their time doing whatever they feel like (you will never convince me that Betty would not choose 'snoop around and annoy people' as her hobby, black hood or no).

On 12/14/2017 at 3:15 AM, Snookums said:

Over at AV Club somebody pointed out that Svenson couldn't be the Black Hood because of the Grundy murder, and he's right. That murder happened in Greendale, not Riverdale, and wasn't witnessed by any Riverdale character. And we were clearly shown the guy and his green eyes, the same as the guy who shot Fred. 

So I'm guessing Svenson, who obviously has heard, along with everybody else in town, about the BH, just finally snapped and impersonated him out of guilt for wrongful identification or whatever. But he definitely did not commit any of the shootings or Grundy's murder. Whiiiiich means we're going to have to keep hearing about this whole goulash of confusing "drama" for the second half of the season.

I'm thinking it was Sheriff Keller, and he swapped places some how/blackmailed the janitor into being his puppet, then shot the guy that could have caught him out.

On 12/14/2017 at 7:59 AM, Locutus said:

The Blossoms are a riot, between drowning the children and banging to pay for the Christmas tree, they are becoming wonderful comic relief. The writers need to run with it.

How much was that Christmas tree? They're not usually more than 60 or so dollars. 

On 12/14/2017 at 2:13 PM, Dee said:

Interesting that Veronica & Betty haven't felt compelled to tell Josie & Kevin that Sierra & Tom are having an affair. So much for 'friendship.'

In fairness, they might have had multiple emotional and heartfelt conversations about this, dozens even, and we were inexplicably never shown it.  

 

Is Betty really not going to write an expose on the Nuns who are abusing their physical charges?  Has she really just been sitting on that information all this time?  Is she really supposed to be any kind of hero/good on this show? 

Does Jughead go to Southside High still?  How is he always at Northside during school time? 

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On 12/14/2017 at 1:42 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Archer after hearing that Fred's hospital bill was $86,000: "Dollars?!"  No, Archie.  Riverdale Medical only accepts payment through maple syrup or Jingle Jangle.  And since the syrup business is a bit dry, it's time to start asking Reggie for some more of that Jangle, buddy!  I swear, that kid really is daft at times (and by that I mean, 90% of the time.)

He obviously has no concept of how money and things work, since the next scene after this was him working the Christmas tree lot while wearing a $100 Ralph Lauren sweater.

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On 12/15/2017 at 6:21 PM, Mabinogia said:

It's gotta be an upgrade after banging Clifford Blossom for years. lol 

Archie's dad owned the Christmas tree lot, so she probably should have worked out something with him.

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9 hours ago, rmontro said:

Archie's dad owned the Christmas tree lot, so she probably should have worked out something with him.

How do you know he wasn't there. He is one of Riverdale's biggest sinners (according to sources very close to me, who wish to remain anonymous).

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15 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

How do you know he wasn't there. He is one of Riverdale's biggest sinners (according to sources very close to me, who wish to remain anonymous).

That's true, he could have been hidden behind the couch.

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