Avengers: Infinity War (2018)

[Captain Carrot]

Well now we know the translation of Groot's last line:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/groots-last-line-in-infinity-war-has-been-revealed-and-it-will-wreck-you_us_5af07d12e4b0c4f1932515fa

I really hope that Rocket gets to give Thanos his regards in the next movie.

[Kel Varnsen]

5 minutes ago, Captain Carrot said:

Well now we know the translation of Groot's last line:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/groots-last-line-in-infinity-war-has-been-revealed-and-it-will-wreck-you_us_5af07d12e4b0c4f1932515fa

I really hope that Rocket gets to give Thanos his regards in the next movie.

I read that today. Pretty interesting,  but makes sense when you consider how protective of Baby Groot Rocket was in Guardians 2.

I also realized that with this movie the first Avengers makes a bunch more sense (or I'm just slow). I always wondered why the Chautari and Thanos were motivated to invade earth, especially to the point where he was willing to gamble 1 Infinity stone to do it (Loki's sceptre). But seeing what he did to Gamora's planet, using the Chautari, it was more than  just getting the Tesseract; if he won Thanos was going to kill half the population.

[Traveller519]

A lot of the hypothesis I see out there suggest that everything that happens during the fight on Titan plays out exactly as Strange's 1 in 14 million Vision Quest suggests. Namely him having to give up the Time Stone, and Quill's tantrum setting off Thanos. 

But I'm not sure that's true. Strange was fighting full on with the others to try and subdue Thanos, while keeping the Time Stone protected. It's not until Thanos is about to deliver the kill shot on Tony that he relents. 

I believe the only element of the winning scenario we can count on is that it Involves Tony. 

I love that that I have no idea how that will manifest itself. 

[Jeebus Cripes]

4 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

A lot of the hypothesis I see out there suggest that everything that happens during the fight on Titan plays out exactly as Strange's 1 in 14 million Vision Quest suggests. Namely him having to give up the Time Stone, and Quill's tantrum setting off Thanos. 

But I'm not sure that's true. Strange was fighting full on with the others to try and subdue Thanos, while keeping the Time Stone protected. It's not until Thanos is about to deliver the kill shot on Tony that he relents. 

I believe the only element of the winning scenario we can count on is that it Involves Tony. 

I love that that I have no idea how that will manifest itself. 

That's what I gathered from how things played out in that scene as well. Tony is essential in defeating him. 

[Morrigan2575]

9 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

Well now we know the translation of Groot's last line:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/groots-last-line-in-infinity-war-has-been-revealed-and-it-will-wreck-you_us_5af07d12e4b0c4f1932515fa

I really hope that Rocket gets to give Thanos his regards in the next movie.

Oh crap that just tore me up ?

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

I believe the only element of the winning scenario we can count on is that it Involves Tony. 

Agreed, I think the 1 timeline where they won, showed Tony surviving. It plays back into their early conversation where Stange told Tony he'd protect the stone over Tony/Peter. In every other timeline, Tony died or Tony died because Strange chose the stone and they lost. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[Lantern7]

Caity Lotz has a fix in mind for the Avengers. Does anybody here watch Legends of Tomorrow? Fun shit. The third season revolves around six totems, and there was a hint of poking fun at. Marvel. Also, that season had a far happier ending.

ETA: Honest Trailers covers Fifty Shades Freed; all requests for the narrator at the end are from AIW. “Why is Gamora?” Forgot about that one. Thanks, Drax!

Edited May 8, 2018 by Lantern7

[VCRTracking]

12 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Caity Lotz has a fix in mind for the Avengers. Does anybody here watch Legends of Tomorrow? Fun shit. The third season revolves around six totems, and there was a hint of poking fun at. Marvel. Also, that season had a far happier ending.

Oh I love LoT. It's my favorite of the CW DC shows. As some have pointed out, it perfectly captures the vibe of the Keith Giffen era Justice League from the late 80s.

Man, I can't imagine being a little kid watching Infinity War. Like someone who became a fan of Spider-Man or the Guardians of the Galaxy and to see that ending. I would be scarred for life.

Edited May 8, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Macbeth]

15 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

Well now we know the translation of Groot's last line:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/groots-last-line-in-infinity-war-has-been-revealed-and-it-will-wreck-you_us_5af07d12e4b0c4f1932515fa

I really hope that Rocket gets to give Thanos his regards in the next movie.

I am not crying you are crying.  I just have a bad case of allergies.

[VCRTracking]

16 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

Well now we know the translation of Groot's last line:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/groots-last-line-in-infinity-war-has-been-revealed-and-it-will-wreck-you_us_5af07d12e4b0c4f1932515fa

I really hope that Rocket gets to give Thanos his regards in the next movie.

 

34 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

I am not crying you are crying.  I just have a bad case of allergies.

Um I already posted about that earlier, but whatever, I don't care, I'm glad more people know about it....

[festivus]

Just got back from seeing it again. You can really concentrate better on all the character moments the second time when you're not worried about who <Steve> is going to die. Like "Dad". 

[stealinghome]

Just got back from seeing it, and to be honest I was a little underwhelmed. Overall the movie felt like it was trying too hard to be good instead of relaxing and BEING good. And quite often Whedon’s touch with humor and dialogue was missed—they were clearly trying to mimic his style and often could not get it exactly right. It was just off somehow.

There were also some odd screenplay decisions made. Like, we can roll with Wanda and Vision having a clandestine illegal affair for two years, or Thanos destroying the Asgardian refugees, but we need to see T’Challa giving Bucky the arm? Okay then. And Vision is still more plot device than character. PS, they clearly should’ve just killed Vision to begin with. And the people on Titan should not have let Quill be in a position to punch Thanos in the face. Also, couldn’t Nebula just saw his arm off?

I want Okoye and Natasha to be best friends for life. And can Marvel please make the outlaw Steve/Nat/Sam/Wanda movie (that Cap 3 should’ve been)? THAT is the movie I want to see, especially after both got pretty shafted in this movie in terms of being backburnered. Okoye can come too. I was DYING at her “maybe a Starbucks.” Now that was a line that landed!

imo Dr. Strange giving over the Time Stone was clearly in the service of that 1 in 14 million win scenario. I’m guessing they’ll fix things so much that even Loki and Heimdall come back. Oh, and Gamora as well, of course.

Most emotional scenes were Thor reflecting on what he lost, Peter dying, young Gamora, and Pepper begging Tony to come back.

Loved the end tag. I was wondering where Fury and Hill were!

ETA: Forgot to say, Bucky and Rocket were AWESOME.

Edited May 8, 2018 by stealinghome

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

There were also some odd screenplay decisions made. Like, we can roll with Wanda and Vision having a clandestine illegal affair for two years, or Thanos destroying the Asgardian refugees, but we need to see T’Challa giving Bucky the arm? Okay then.

Damn, right we need to see him get the arm.

1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

And the people on Titan should not have let Quill be in a position to punch Thanos in the face. Also, couldn’t Nebula just saw his arm off?

They were a little occupied at the moment.

1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

Okay then. And Vision is still more plot device than character. PS, they clearly should’ve just killed Vision to begin with.

Cap spent a year working with Vision so he's not inclined to think of him as just a machine. Also, if there was no other option they would have, but Shuri and Wakanda technology offered a solution without having to kill him so they took it.

[festivus]

9 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Damn, right we need to see him get the arm.

Yeah we do. And how long was that scene, like less than 2 minutes? Plus, that arm led to the funniest scene in the movie for me.

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, festivus said:

Yeah we do. And how long was that scene, like less than 2 minutes? Plus, that arm led to the funniest scene in the movie for me.

Heh, his total screen time was 2 minutes.  If you take out him getting the arm, it's probably down to 1:40.  And I loved the way the guy presented it in it's case... like it was a precious jewel (which it practically was!).  

[festivus]

True, that Rocket and Bucky scene was probably like 30 seconds tops. Plus in all seriousness, we know his old arm was blown off in Civil War and I just think it would be weird if you saw him again and boom, new arm. The arm is a character of its own, like my beloved shield. (Who I miss very much. *sniff*)

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, festivus said:

True, that Rocket and Bucky scene was probably like 30 seconds tops. Plus in all seriousness, we know his old arm was blown off in Civil War and I just think it would be weird if you saw him again and boom, new arm. The arm is a character of its own, like my beloved shield. (Who I miss very much. *sniff*)

Yeah, plus it gave them an opportunity to update Bucky's status in a really efficient way (he's been hanging out on his goat farm with no interest in joining any fighting or he would have been out with Steve, Nat and Sam, and he hadn't even been wearing the arm at all and appeared to be content getting along without it).

[Shannon L.]

1 hour ago, Wynterwolf said:

Yeah, plus it gave them an opportunity to update Bucky's status in a really efficient way (he's been hanging out on his goat farm with no interest in joining any fighting or he would have been out with Steve, Nat and Sam, and he hadn't even been wearing the arm at all and appeared to be content getting along without it).

I also got a thrill out of how it looked like something that Shuri would have made-the black with the cool orange design.  The Bucky/Wakanda scenes from the end of Black Panther and in this one kind of cemented for me that they weren't done with him yet.  At the very least, I expect him to show up, even in a small role, in the next Black Panther movie*  He may not have had a big part in IW, but it was significant--at least that's how it seemed to me.

*I don't read a lot of entertainment sites, so if this is already out there as a done deal, then I haven't heard it yet.

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, Shannon L. said:

I also got a thrill out of how it looked like something that Shuri would have made-the black with the cool orange design.  The Bucky/Wakanda scenes from the end of Black Panther and in this one kind of cemented for me that they weren't done with him yet.  At the very least, I expect him to show up, even in a small role, in the next Black Panther movie*  He may not have had a big part in IW, but it was significant--at least that's how it seemed to me.

*I don't read a lot of entertainment sites, so if this is already out there as a done deal, then I haven't heard it yet.

I haven't seen anything specific or official either, but especially the fact that they keep calling him White Wolf (a character in the Black Panther Universe... he was the head of their spy network and a mercenary), the possibilities of that make me giddy.  And Seb said in Portland that he had been reading up on the backstory of that character.  

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Just got back from seeing it, and to be honest I was a little underwhelmed. Overall the movie felt like it was trying too hard to be good instead of relaxing and BEING good. And quite often Whedon’s touch with humor and dialogue was missed—they were clearly trying to mimic his style and often could not get it exactly right. It was just off somehow.

I actually liked the humour in this vs Age of Ultron. With Whedon it always seems like every person has the same sense of humour. I think getting James Gunn and some of the other people behind the solo movies to have some imput helped avoid that.

Plus without Whedon we didn't have some bullshit Asgardian pool vision quest that made no sense.

[Shannon L.]

11 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

I haven't seen anything specific or official either, but especially the fact that they keep calling him White Wolf (a character in the Black Panther Universe... he was the head of their spy network and a mercenary), the possibilities of that make me giddy.  And Seb said in Portland that he had been reading up on the backstory of that character.  

White Wolf was one thing that was significant to me.  Also the fact that he wasn't just friendly and working off a debt, but he was warm with them (at least with Shuri) and his "I love this place".  He found his peaceful spot, his place to fit in and people that he's comfortable with who have accepted him.  Yeah, I bet anything that he'll be back in BP2.

[Joe]

24 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Plus without Whedon we didn't have some bullshit Asgardian pool vision quest that made no sense.

That wasn't his idea. That was mandated by the producers.

[Kel Varnsen]

23 minutes ago, Joe said:

That wasn't his idea. That was mandated by the producers.

The scene was Whedon's idea but Marvel said to cut it down because the movie was too long. Either way he was the director and should have been able to present something that made sense,  even in a shortened scene.

[Joe]

33 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The scene was Whedon's idea but Marvel said to cut it down because the movie was too long. Either way he was the director and should have been able to present something that made sense,  even in a shortened scene.

Interesting, thanks.

[Perfect Xero]

One thing I'm wondering is if Tony's dream from the first time we see him in the film is significant. I've seen people speculating about a possible time jump, that Strange somehow see's Tony's survival as the key to beating Thanos.

Is Tony having a dream about a future where he and Pepper had a kid, a dream that he insists felt real, a sign that Tony is in some sort of time loop or that his mind is somehow connected to his future self?

[JustaPerson]

 

So detailed! 

[VCRTracking]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I actually liked the humour in this vs Age of Ultron. With Whedon it always seems like every person has the same sense of humour. I think getting James Gunn and some of the other people behind the solo movies to have some imput helped avoid that.

I think that helped though having these characters from vastly different worlds together the first Avengers movie. Anyone who complains about how characters are written by Whedon should read any Avengers book written by Brian Michael Bendis. They ALL sound alike and make the same kind of jokes(except for Luke Cage).

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The scene was Whedon's idea but Marvel said to cut it down because the movie was too long. Either way he was the director and should have been able to present something that made sense,  even in a shortened scene.

3 hours ago, Joe said:

Interesting, thanks.

Joss was also the one who had the idea of using Thanos as the ultimate villain in the first place.

From 2012:
 

Quote

 

/Film: Thanos at the end. At what point did you know that you wanted to do that? Who shot that? How was that put together?

Kevin Feige: Joss. Joss, Joss, and Joss.

/Film: It was his idea?

Kevin Feige: Yeah.

/Film: And you let him do it because you said you wanted it to be “cosmic?”

Kevin Feige: I wanted to get cosmic and did with THOR and told him that we wanted it to be aliens, that a portal opens in New York and aliens poor out, because the cosmic cube opened a portal. Who they were, what they were, and how they interacted was all Joss and Joss is a huge fan of Thanos.

Quote

 

Next up, I spoke to Whedon about his decision to add Thanos into the film:

/Film: The last thing is the Thanos tag. Can you talk a little bit about that? Kevin said it was your idea. Why decide on Thanos? Why now?

Joss Whedon: He for me is the most powerful and fascinating Marvel villain. He’s the great grand daddy of the badasses and he’s in love with death and I just think that’s so cute. For me, the greatest Avengers was THE AVENGERS annual that Jim Starlin did followed by THE THING 2 in 1 that contained the death of Adam Warlock. Those were some of the most important texts and I think underrated milestones in Marvel history and Thanos is all over that, so somebody had to be in control and had to be behind Loki’s work and I was like “It’s got to be Thanos.” And they said “Okay” and I’m like “Oh my God!”

 

http://www.slashfilm.com/exclusive-joss-whedon-kevin-feige-explain-origin-the-avengers-post-script/

Edited May 9, 2018 by VCRTracking

[benteen]

Quote

I think that helped though having these characters from vastly different worlds together the first Avengers movie. Anyone who complains about how characters are written by Whedon should read any Avengers book written by Brian Michael Bendis. They ALL sound alike and make the same kind of jokes(except for Luke Cage).

Good lord, yes.  Bendis's characters ALL sound the same, especially the female characters.  He even managed to devolve Emma Frost into a tough-talking simpleton.  He's not much better with the male characters either and even Cage makes the same jokes as the other male characters he writers.

I'm glad the movies don't have this problem.

[VCRTracking]

The Russo Brothers Break Down Spider-Man And Black Panther’s Shocking Moments In ‘Avengers: Infinity War’

Excerpt:
 

Quote

 

Was there ever a debate on how sad to make Peter Parker’s death scene?

Joe Russo: With Peter specifically, we knew that would be a gut punch. I mean, that was my favorite character growing up.

Anthony Russo: Once we commit to a story idea, we commit to the fullest version of that. The potency of that moment is a function of us following that creative choice.

Joe Russo: We kept pushing it on set farther and farther with the emotional performance that we wanted. And part of it was improvisation on Tom Holland’s part.

What part did he improvise?

Joe Russo: I think what was scripted was, “I don’t feel so good,” and, “I’m sorry,” and everything in-between is Tom.

So, “I don’t want to go,” was his?

Joe Russo: Yeah. And the emotional level to which we pushed him to, that was really just us just saying, “You’re a child and you don’t understand.”

 

I knew from other places on the internet that Tom Holland improvised that line and kudos to him because that's the part that really broke me!

Edited May 9, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Maelstrom]

On 5/6/2018 at 7:58 PM, AshleyN said:

I get that [Ragnorak] was meant to be more of a comedy, but as much as I liked it the fact that they felt the need to undermine seemingly every moment of sincerity with a gag or a quip got annoying after awhile.

Thank you! I thought I was the only person on the internets who felt that way. By the end of the movie I didn't feel like there was a point in getting invested in any of it, because anything significant would immediately be undercut with a joke.

On 5/8/2018 at 9:58 AM, Lantern7 said:

Caity Lotz has a fix in mind for the Avengers. Does anybody here watch Legends of Tomorrow? Fun shit. The third season revolves around six totems, and there was a hint of poking fun at. Marvel. Also, that season had a far happier ending.

 

That would be awesome, especially if they used another giant Beebo to defeat Thanos with cuddles. I'd love to see what kind of chaos the Legends could cause before fixing this problem with a bigger problem. After all, sometimes they screw things up for the better!

On 5/8/2018 at 3:57 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Plus without Whedon we didn't have some bullshit Asgardian pool vision quest that made no sense.

On 5/8/2018 at 4:48 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

The scene was Whedon's idea but Marvel said to cut it down because the movie was too long. Either way he was the director and should have been able to present something that made sense,  even in a shortened scene.

I've heard also that the runtime forced Whedon to trim down that vision quest scene - I seem to recall reading somewhere that to keep it intact they would have had to cut all the scenes at Casa de Hawkeye. To which I call total BS, because if you trimmed 30 seconds off every damn (repetitive) fight scene in the movie there would've been time for Thor's Bogus Journey in full, and probably even time to show the team stopping for some shawarma at some point.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Maelstrom

[tennisgurl]

The Avengers is still a really good team up movie, and I appreciate what Joss Whedon did for the MCU, but I think the Russos are better for the long term of the Avengers. The last few years, I think his flaws as a writer (making gender such a big deal, shock deaths, the constant quips, etc.) have become more noticeable, as much as I love his earlier work. I think, to an extent, he still looks at movies as a TV writer, and that means he writes so many characters and subplots, that, while they work on a show, they get lost in the shuffle or have to be cut for time, and that can hurt his films, most notably in AoU. 

Again, not to disparage his work, and I like his style when he is at his best, but at this point, I think they needed some other people to take over. 

[Kel Varnsen]

27 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

The Avengers is still a really good team up movie, and I appreciate what Joss Whedon did for the MCU, but I think the Russos are better for the long term of the Avengers. The last few years, I think his flaws as a writer (making gender such a big deal, shock deaths, the constant quips, etc.) have become more noticeable, as much as I love his earlier work. I think, to an extent, he still looks at movies as a TV writer, and that means he writes so many characters and subplots, that, while they work on a show, they get lost in the shuffle or have to be cut for time, and that can hurt his films, most notably in AoU. 

Again, not to disparage his work, and I like his style when he is at his best, but at this point, I think they needed some other people to take over. 

Yea Avengers is a great movie, so easy to rewatch and enjoy. But Age of Ultron really didn't live up to expectations, which is too bad because I was super excited for it and Ultron is probably my favorite Avengers villain. One of Whedon's excuses for it not being great (and the guy always has excuses it seems) was studio interference. Now by comparison Infinity War really lived up to a lot of my expectations, which makes me wonder if the Russos are just better at working within that type of system or if Marvel backed off and gave the more freedom.

[tennisgurl]

17 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Now by comparison Infinity War really lived up to a lot of my expectations, which makes me wonder if the Russos are just better at working within that type of system or if Marvel backed off and gave the more freedom.

I think its a combination of both. I think the Russos are better at playing the Hollywood game, and are very open to working with others and taking notes and making changes based on what is working and what isnt, and they dont really come off as bitter about it, the way Whedon does. I think Whedon enjoys his Indie Cred and being in charge, while the Russos came into this without being a big deal beforehand, and are better at making movies that appeal to a wide audience and the studio, and know what to fight for, and what to let go and change. But even more so, I think Marvel has definitely been giving its directors more freedom lately, ever since a certain executive was pretty much told to screw off, and the Marvel Creative Committee was disbanded, which allowed for much more freedom for directors, and allowed their last few movies to be even more creative and odd than the early ones, with significantly less executive meddling.

http://collider.com/why-the-end-of-the-marvel-creative-committee-has-led-to-bolder-mcu-movies/#kevin-feige 

Edited May 10, 2018 by tennisgurl

[VCRTracking]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The Avengers is still a really good team up movie, and I appreciate what Joss Whedon did for the MCU, but I think the Russos are better for the long term of the Avengers. The last few years, I think his flaws as a writer (making gender such a big deal, shock deaths, the constant quips, etc.) have become more noticeable, as much as I love his earlier work. I think, to an extent, he still looks at movies as a TV writer, and that means he writes so many characters and subplots, that, while they work on a show, they get lost in the shuffle or have to be cut for time, and that can hurt his films, most notably in AoU. 

 

Oh definitely. Whedon is both a very good movie script doctor and a great TV writer and I think he approached the first Avengers as the former and Age of Ultron as the latter. When he made the first Avengers, he was in "script doctor" mode improving(or basically throwing out most of) Zak Penn's script and making it his own but also had to include things Marvel wanted: "Avengers against Loki, a battle among the heroes in the middle, a battle against the villains at the end" He also had the previous solo Marvel movies to draw on so he wasn't just creating the characters from scratch. There was already a lot of set up he didn't have to do, and he could just bring those different pieces together. For Age of Ultron he was in his "TV showrunner mode". He had a lot of ideas and themes he wanted to explore with the characters for the sequel. The problem was they could be explored better in one TV season with 22 episodes than a 2 hour plus movie. So many things felt rush or truncated. * I think the TV/movie disparity is what went wrong with Greg Berlanti when he wrote the Green Lantern movie. Berlanti is a great TV guy(Everwood, his various CW shows) but he along with his co-writers basically wrote Green Lantern like a TV pilot, trusting it would get "picked up" and various plot and character developments would continue in further movies(episodes) instead of making a film that could stand alone.

*ETA There were also the other solo movies in between Avengers 1 and 2 that contradicted or had slightly different characterizations than his.

Edited May 10, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Jeebus Cripes]

Dave Bautista improvised Drax's funniest line

Quote

In an interview with Yahoo, Infinity War's two screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely, who also penned the MCU's three Captain America movies, revealed some interesting tidbits regarding changes that were made to the screenplay. In the scene in which Peter and Tony first meet, Peter says, "Where's Gamora?" to which Tony replies, "I'll do you even better: who is Gamora?"

Then, despite the heated standoff, Drax cuts in, asking, "I'll do you one better: Why is Gamora?" They revealed Bautista completely ad-libbed the line, prompting Markus to recall, "OK, you're very good at your job."

I freaking adore him so much more for this.

[HunterHunted]

I know it's dumb and juvenile, but I'm still chuckling that the reveal that Thor understands Groot comes during a discussion about peeing in a can. Thor just casually says "You go in the can and empty the can into space."

11 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

For Age of Ultron he was in his "TV showrunner mode". He had a lot of ideas and themes he wanted to explore with the characters for the sequel. The problem was they could be explored better in one TV season with 22 episodes than a 2 hour plus movie. So many things felt rush or truncated. *

I think the biggest problem is that Joss wanted to give every character their own arc, which resulted in kind of a mess. Whereas Markus and McFeely were happy to give some characters almost nothing. Sam's whole deal is hero worship of Cap. Sam upends his entire life because Cap is just awesome. It makes no damn sense, but it is what it is. Ant Man has only hero worship reasons for getting involved during Civil War. Clint is bored and ...ummmm Wanda. Spider-Man is a kid who worships Tony and it's like the Avengers, OMG. Joss would have agonized over making sure every character had an arc and deep motivation underlying their actions.

As much as everyone hates the Bruce and Natasha romance, it's the height of sophistication in comparison to the Steve Sharon kiss in Civil War. It's why people still agonize over the Bruce and Natasha bedroom scene, but everyone just dismisses as Sharon and Steve as just bad. Markus and McFeely have some key characters, but everyone else takes a back seat and has a line or quip that's in character, but they are largely just along for the ride. The biggest problem that Age of Ultron has was that Joss was trying to do right by every character.

[Dee]

Sam doesn't hero worship Cap. He makes a conscious choice to join Nat & Steve, because he respects Cap's principles, but also because he is as much of a stubborn adrenaline junkie as Steve is. That was thoroughly established in CA:TWS.

The problem with Civil War is that it's treated as a defacto Avengers film, instead of a real Cap film, so the characters in Steve's direct orbit (Sam/Nat/Bucky/Clint/Wanda/Sharon/Scott), including Steve himself, get narratively shortchanged to afford more screentime for Tony's issues.

[VCRTracking]

33 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I think the biggest problem is that Joss wanted to give every character their own arc, which resulted in kind of a mess. Whereas Markus and McFeely were happy to give some characters almost nothing. Sam's whole deal is hero worship of Cap. Sam upends his entire life because Cap is just awesome. It makes no damn sense, but it is what it is. Ant Man has only hero worship reasons for getting involved during Civil War. Clint is bored and ...ummmm Wanda. Spider-Man is a kid who worships Tony and it's like the Avengers, OMG. Joss would have agonized over making sure every character had an arc and deep motivation underlying their actions.

Yeah and some people didn't like that he gave the only character a romantic storyline in AOU but it was more than just a love story because  Whether you liked them together or not, her relationship with Bruce was just as much about Natasha struggling with her past and herself as a person, the guilt she still feels, what she's been through and who she wants to be.

Civil War did a good job of introducing characters into the MCU like Spider-Man and Black Panther(and re-introducing) Ant-Man so audiences go "Wow! I want to see more of them!" but they get fleshed better out by other writers in their subsequent solo movies and are more human. There were a lot of people laughing(in a positive way) online saying "I love how in Civil War, T'Challa is the cool kid on the block, and in Black Panther in Wakanda, he's a nerd who gets roasted by his kid sister, mom, ex, and best friend!" I think Markus and McFeely make the characters they write the coolest they can be, which is fine for Captain America(because he's usually thought of as a 'square' by the general public) so he's the ultimate badass in Winter Soldier and Civil War but it didn't work for Thor in Thor: The Dark World. Ragnarok was great, because it was a reminder that he can be a goofball and somebody you can just hang out with, not just a god you're in awe of.

8 minutes ago, Dee said:

Sam doesn't hero worship Cap. He makes a conscious choice to join Nat & Steve, because he respects Cap's principles, but also because he is as much of a stubborn adrenaline junkie as Steve is. That was thoroughly established in CA:TWS.

The problem with Civil War is that it's treated as a defacto Avengers film, instead of a real Cap film, so the characters in Steve's direct orbit (Sam/Nat/Bucky/Clint/Wanda/Sharon/Scott), including Steve himself, get narratively shortchanged to afford more screentime for Tony's issues.

Let's just say it's an Avengers movie but from Cap's POV with Tony as the antagonist. Like if it was Die Hard, Steve is John McClane and Tony is Hans Gruber.

Edited May 10, 2018 by VCRTracking

[piequinn35]

Oh wow, I was unspoiled, I didn't see the cliffhanger coming!

Haha, they had the gauntlet but Star Lord messed up the plan! 

But that's part of their destiny, right? time stone will reverse everything dusted?

They can't probably kill Thanos bec. of the soul stone/immortal

They need a strategic plan to remove the gauntlet, Star Lord is gone, no one will mess up the plan lol

 

PS: I was spared by Thanos, that's why I'm here in the forums.

[Bruinsfan]

On 5/9/2018 at 10:03 AM, benteen said:

Good lord, yes.  Bendis's characters ALL sound the same, especially the female characters.  He even managed to devolve Emma Frost into a tough-talking simpleton.  He's not much better with the male characters either and even Cage makes the same jokes as the other male characters he writers.

I think the utter nadir of his writing voice was having Dr. Doom shout "“You’re a fat piece of furniture I may need for trade! So shut your cow-mouth or I’ll remove your face by hand before I stop your whore’s heart.” Doom should refer to himself in third person and make long-winded gloating speeches, not throw crude insults and physical threats around like a pimp shaking down one of his hookers.

[Lantern7]

5 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

They can't probably kill Thanos bec. of the soul stone/immortal

They need a strategic plan to remove the gauntlet, Star Lord is gone, no one will mess up the plan lol

Butter. Or margarine. If Tony/Stephen/the Peters had that, the Gauntlet would've slipped right off.

 

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

I think the utter nadir of his writing voice was having Dr. Doom shout "“You’re a fat piece of furniture I may need for trade! So shut your cow-mouth or I’ll remove your face by hand before I stop your whore’s heart.” Doom should refer to himself in third person and make long-winded gloating speeches, not throw crude insults and physical threats around like a pimp shaking down one of his hookers.

"When my men reported a crazy black man in the Fantastic Four's craft,I knew it had to be you!" I bet so many fans would want that to happen on Netflix.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Lantern7

[Kel Varnsen]

7 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Oh wow, I was unspoiled, I didn't see the cliffhanger coming!

Haha, they had the gauntlet but Star Lord messed up the plan! 

But that's part of their destiny, right? time stone will reverse everything dusted?

I do wonder why Dr. Strange didn’t just pull a "Thanos, I've come to bargain" kind of move.

I also kind of wonder, if the Guardians had hung onto the power stone, could Quill have used it to defeat Ego, and then used it and his alien powers to defeat Thanos?

[tennisgurl]

Something that just occurred to me. Of the three sets of sibling duos in the movie (Loki and Thor, Gamora and Nebula, Shuri and T'Challa), each set had one sibling die, and one sibling live.

Balancing the universe indeed. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Enigma X]

When time travel is at play, I always ask why not go back to the past and make it so so-in-so was never born? I know...I know. I will clam up now.

[blueray]

36 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I do wonder why Dr. Strange didn’t just pull a "Thanos, I've come to bargain" kind of move.

I also kind of wonder, if the Guardians had hung onto the power stone, could Quill have used it to defeat Ego, and then used it and his alien powers to defeat Thanos?

I don't think Thanos would fall for that. He was also more powerful I think and defiantly smarter then the villain in Dr. Strange. And I two was hoping Peter would try to get the stone, but instead he ended up destroying their plan :(.

Edited May 11, 2018 by blueray

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 5/7/2018 at 9:31 PM, Captain Carrot said:

Well now we know the translation of Groot's last line:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/groots-last-line-in-infinity-war-has-been-revealed-and-it-will-wreck-you_us_5af07d12e4b0c4f1932515fa

I really hope that Rocket gets to give Thanos his regards in the next movie.

Oh, FML, why did I click on that?

8 hours ago, Dee said:

The problem with Civil War is that it's treated as a defacto Avengers film, instead of a real Cap film, so the characters in Steve's direct orbit (Sam/Nat/Bucky/Clint/Wanda/Sharon/Scott), including Steve himself, get narratively shortchanged to afford more screentime for Tony's issues.

I was talking about this to someone this afternoon, the argument that Steve should have gotten much more screentime during Civil War, and it was pointed out that it's a Cap film in name only. Of course, I would have been just fine if Tony's issues had been less of a deal. OTOH, they can't really have someone come up to Steve and say, "Oh, by the way, my kid's dead and I blame you for it", because that would be absurd.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I do wonder why Dr. Strange didn’t just pull a "Thanos, I've come to bargain" kind of move.

1 hour ago, blueray said:

I don't think Thanos would fall for that. He was also more powerful I think and defiantly smarter then the villain in Dr. Strange. 

 

By that time, pun not intended, Thanos had the Soul, Space, and Reality stones. It's possible that before Dr. Strange could successfully create a time loop, Thanos could portal Dr. Strange into space, trap him in the soul stone, or alter reality to make Dr. Strange think that he was creating time loops when he wasn't. Dr. Strange was probably overpowered and outmatched, which is why the one successful plan seems to hinge on Thanos thinking he's won.

[VCRTracking]

As sad as IW was talking about it in the threads is a relative joy after the endless debates in the Civil War and The Last Jedi thread!

Edited May 11, 2018 by VCRTracking

[benteen]

16 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I think the utter nadir of his writing voice was having Dr. Doom shout "“You’re a fat piece of furniture I may need for trade! So shut your cow-mouth or I’ll remove your face by hand before I stop your whore’s heart.” Doom should refer to himself in third person and make long-winded gloating speeches, not throw crude insults and physical threats around like a pimp shaking down one of his hookers.

UGH.

[VCRTracking]

2 hours ago, benteen said:

UGH.

Ditto.