S16.E15: Season 16 Reunion Special

[Desert Rat]

On 12/1/2017 at 10:02 AM, gingerormaryann said:

I said it before but Amy is living proof that those who can, do, those who can't teach.  I get her a lot after seeing the reunion.  She's a middle aged teacher, not attractive, quite masculine and will almost certainly live the rest of her life teaching people like Claire and Shawn.  She has no prospects of a design career so you can understand her bitterness.

Hi Claire.

[PepperMonkey]

This was one of my favourite seasons since the Bravo years, as well. There was a bit of talent and some diversity and, with a few exceptions, none of the nastiness that we have seen from many of the Lifetime seasons.

I would be really surprised if Claire was asked back to All Stars, after being expelled for cheating.

[JenMcSnark]

On 12/1/2017 at 7:26 AM, nr65000 said:

When they recapped the “design-off” between the twins and Shawn having her breakdown I remember thinking at the time how Shawn couched it as “letting” Clair win instead of letting the judges send her home when she was unable to complete a design on her own. During the reunion she doubled down by saying she would always fall on her sword for Clair. In both instances I thought I caught a glimpse of something cross Clair’s face. Why is Shawn unable to say that fair and square her sister would have beat her instead of acting like she gave up the win to save her sister. Fall on her sword my ass. Everyone including Clair knows she would have lost and by playing the martyed sister she tries to take that away from Clair.  If they are sooooo close why couldn’t she just say my sister won. Odd dynamic.  

I haven't read all the replies yet, so forgive me if someone already said this.  I saw Clair bully Shawn several times on the runway when Shawn was about to possibly have a moment and accept responsibility/criticism. 

I'm sure before they came on they went over everything that might possibly come up (probably with a hired media person/publicist) and Clair made Shawn agree that it no way would they accept any notion that either of them were not the absolute best and most innocent Project Runway contestants ever!  Therefore they backtracked on anything that suggested otherwise and doubled-down on all the other shit they spouted during the season. 

[Wings]

14 hours ago, ladle said:

Is it at all possible that Claire really did misunderstand Tim's original question about the measuring tape?  Did she actually make it clear in her response to Amy that she had measured the outfits in the hotel?  Her justifications at the reunion were just SO bizarre to me, it did give me a moment of doubt.  I don't have access to the original episode so I can't go back and look...
 

I actually don't think it would be terrible if they brought back JUST Claire (not her sister) for an All Stars season.  It might be interesting to see what she can do without cheating and without Shawn there.  I really have no idea who she is as a designer.  On the other hand, I don't think she should be "rewarded" for cheating by being asked back...

I saw enough of what Claire can do.  She straight out copied a top she wore in episode 1.  The top with the zipper down the arm.  There were other pieces that were not original, as well.  

No, it wasn't possible that Claire misunderstood  Tim.  She was caught and she knew it.  

[SuburbanHangSuite]

I don't know what it is but I fluctuate between liking and disliking Ayana.  I was blown away by her creativity in a few of the challenges and I loved her finale look but there was something in the way that she talked about expecting to win the whole thing that I really found off-putting.  Naturally, I think every designer making the Finals should feel they're going to win but it was almost as if she was saying that any of the 4 could've won but she really didn't mean it.  I don't know---maybe I'm reading too much into it because her whole "modest" schtick got old to me very early on. 

I adore Kentaro.  I believe him when he said he wants to share his prize.  Such a sweet soul.

I know Liris got all the love this season but Jazzmine was pretty damn fierce in her own right.  But what was the deal with them getting featured in Marie Claire and not some of the other "final" models--especially Meisha??  I know, I know--embrace the curvy women is the message of the season but Meisha killed it all season and should be celebrated too.

[Former Nun]

42 minutes ago, wings707 said:

No, it wasn't possible that Claire misunderstood  Tim.  She was caught and she knew it.  

Those twins have probbly cheated and scammed most of their lives.  I hope some possible employers saw them for what they are.

[Wings]

5 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Those twins have probbly cheated and scammed most of their lives.  I hope some possible employers saw them for what they are.

I think so too.  This did not smack of a first time offense.  

[Former Nun]

Don't miss DesertRat's brief comment at the top of Page 4 ..."precious" (prescient?)!

[Diane Mars]

Regarding the cheating, I also remember that Margarita was saying to Mickael that she's seen her with a paper on which she reported the measurements.... Is my memory playing with me ? Because if not, that's the "proof" that, yes, it was in the appartement and NOT in the workroom !!!!!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Since people keep asking exactly what was said during the cheating episode, I am copying and pasting my entire post from the quotes thread:

Quote

Since Claire is now claiming that she was confused by the barrage of questions and what exactly was being asked of her, I went back to rewatch S16.E9 to see what everyone originally said.

Backstage with Tim:

Quote

Michael: If you reference every single one of [Claire's] looks, it has been a direct rip off of stuff they have worn, stuff that is in their closet.
Tim: If you wanted to, you could measure the garment that you're wearing in the room.
Margarita: Claire and Shawn told us one day that they measured their clothes.
Tim: You have measuring tapes at your work stations.

On the runway:

Quote

Batani: So there was a situation with Margarita's top in which Claire had...
Claire: Did she think that I knocked off her top from the last challenge?
Kenya: You did!
Claire: Is that what the whole issue is?
Batani: And in addition, she was measuring her own pants and so-
Claire: I literally took a pair of pants I had, measured them to a T, and then made the exact same pant.
Zac: You rubbed off the pant.
Claire: I referenced a pair of pants to compare.
Gigi Hadad's mom: She's fine. That's fine.
Margarita: And you recreated the tank for the good and evil challenge and that's what bothers me and I didn't want to say anything because it's not my business.
Claire: It's a tank top!

Backstage with Tim:

Quote

Michael: She has a retractable ruler in the apartment that she goes home and measures her garments for proportion, for fit.
Tim: How do you know that?
Michael: I've seen it and we discussed it and she has mentioned it to me.
Tim: Well, we will look into this.
Michael: She writes down the measurements either on a piece of paper or her hand and comes back and drafts the pattern instantaneously.
Tim: If this is happening, it must stop.

On the runway:

Quote

Gigi Hadad's mom: Are you a judge on this show or are you a participant?
Michael: No, but I do see what happens in the workroom and I do see what happens back home in the apartment and it is not something that I agree with. I can honestly go through every single look that Claire created throughout the season and tell you exactly where that reference comes from and it becomes the point where it's not only a reference or inspiration but a direct design of stuff they own.
Claire: But I don't think that's honestly true. There are so many occasions where we see things and absorb them-
Gigi Hadad's mom: And put your own twist on it.
Margarita: Absolutely. And my point, Claire, was the top you presented in your critique with Tim was exactly like my JCPenney asymmetrical keyhole peplum.
Heidi: But you're not the first one to invent that either.
Margarita: No, totally not.
Heidi: I think you guys all borrow from each other. I think being here together in this tight space, you inspire each other so there's nothing wrong with that. The only thing that you're not allowed to do is go on the internet here.
Michael: There is no need for internet when you brought the pieces that you're ripping off.
Claire: Omigawd.
Gigi Hadad's mom: Yeah, but I don't think you guys' focus should be on that. Focus on being better and not on what other people are doing because it's going to block your own growth.
Nina: You know your own strength and your own creative power and you don't need to dip into anybody else's.
Zac: If you focus on what other people are doing, it doesn't lead to success.

Backstage:

Quote

Tim: This whole thing about copying Margarita, a total non issue. But if Claire used a measuring tape or other tools outside the workroom, that is absolutely against the rules and there will be consequences.

Talking head:

Quote

Claire: I don't even care about the win at this point. What frustrates me to no end is that people think I have been ripping off my own clothes.

Designers' lounge:

Quote

Claire: So I won the challenge.
Ayana: Wow, congratulations.
Claire: But...
Amy: What's the but?
Claire: It appears that no one thinks that I deserve to win the challenge.

Talking head:

Quote

Claire: I feel like I literally was hit by a truck.

Designers' lounge:

Quote

Claire: It was a shit show.
Claire: [to Ayana] You design things that are very similar to the aesthetic that you wear.
Kenya: I make peplum on the bottom but my design is very strategic to what it is that I'm doing.
Claire: My top was different than anything I own. Is it because there was money on the line? Seriously.
Kentaro: I don't know.
Claire: But what is it then? Honestly, Margarita-
Margarita: I think at the end of the day, it was a print challenge, you had a beautiful print-
Claire: Thank you.
Michael: I handled it in a poor way and I wholeheartedly apologize. I never intended for it to fester and to just come out like that but I think in the competition setting, I was feeling very-
Claire: I wish you would have talked about this with me. It feels like what's being voiced right now is a personal attack on me.
Margarita: Honestly I wish it would have been in a different setting and I understand how you reacted.
Michael: Quite honestly, I take design very seriously because it is my life and when I see the industry that I love being twisted and rehashed-
Claire: I do not own a top that looks anything like that top I just made.
Michael: Okay.
Claire: I DON'T.
Michael: Okay. The top that you guys created for the good and evil challenge - Shawn was wearing that top that day.
Claire: We did not use the top that she was wearing.
Margarita: You guys speced the top and drew it. It was on the table.
Amy: Where, at home?
Margarita: Yeah.
Claire: I measured a tank top and I drew out a shape and I put-
Margarita: With measurements.
Claire: Four measurements on it. I put four measurements on it.
Amy: Hold it. But that means you had a tape measure at home which is explicitly against the rules.
Ayana: Whoa.

Talking head:

Quote

Amy: There are rules for Project Runway that are there for a reason, and that creates a level playing field for everyone.

Designers' lounge:

Quote

Claire: I have a tape measure.
Amy: Which is explicitly against the rules.
Claire: Then they can take it.
Margarita: And I think that's what bothers us about the fairness.

Talking head:

Quote

Margarita: Claire is measuring garments with a tape measure we're not allowed to have outside of the workroom. Bottom line - that's what's wrong here.

Designers' lounge:

Quote

Margarita: We cannot have tape measures or pens or papers outside of the workroom.
Claire: It's a tank!
Margarita: And we're not allowed to do it and it's unfair to the rest of us.
Tim: All right, first things first. Claire-
Claire: Yes.
Tim: Is it true that you have had a measuring tape in your room?
Claire: I have a measuring tape.
Tim: Is it true that you’ve been measuring garments in your room?
Claire: I have measured a tank top and I have measured the crotch of a pair of pants.
Tim: All right, Claire, we must rescind your win and send you home.
Claire: Okay. It's fine. It's fine.

Backstage:

Quote

Tim: Claire's possession of the measuring tape in her hotel room and the fact that she used it to measure clothes that she owns and to make specifications is what is against the rules here.

Talking head:

Quote

Claire: I'm very regretful that I even considered the idea of holding on to something that I shouldn’t have had.

At the apartment:

Quote

Margarita: This whole time, I knew what was going on but I also don't want to be that contestant who's like, "Oh, well she's cheating."

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Jsage]

Quote

Regarding the cheating, I also remember that Margarita was saying to Mickael that she's seen her with a paper on which she reported the measurements.... Is my memory playing with me ? Because if not, that's the "proof" that, yes, it was in the appartement and NOT in the workroom !!!!!

There's been a lot of discussion regarding where the measurements took place but I don't think knowing the truth would have changed the results at all. Tim explicitly stated that possessing a measuring tape at the apartment is cheating and cheating is grounds for dismissal from the competition. At the reunion, Claire did make it sound like magic elves put the measuring tape in her pocket (thank you to whoever used that phrase above), but the fact is the the tape was in the apartment. So regardless of whether or not Claire understood Tim's second question about where the measurements were taken (I personally believe she understood perfectly and was just backtracking at the reunion), a rule was broken with the measuring tape alone.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Jsage

[Jsage]

Quote

And I hate to judge on appearance, but he needs to take better care of his skin!  It does not read young 24 year old guy.

Is it possible Brandon was ill during the reunion? His skin did look awful. It almost looked like he had some yellowing around his eyes and under his eyes was really sunken in. 

[frogzapper]

Almost everyone's been so focused on the twins, but I'd like to mention a few things that I liked about the reunion show. :)

Aside from the twins controversy and what seemed like a little bit of residual bitterness on Kenya's part, I thought this was a good reunion show. Everyone (except Claire) seemed to be in a good mood and had some nice things to say, and I enjoyed the montages. 

Highlights for me - 

• Kentaro's sincere humbleness and all-around good nature and how he said that he learned so much from everyone.
• Kentaro's and Brandon's bro-mance montage and how they laughed in unison during the clip where Samantha said she was happy that they were brothers.
• Aaron's montage - yes, I know some of his designs were a little out there and rather sloppily executed, but I enjoyed seeing him this season. I liked how Brandon said it was so refreshing to meet someone who's so comfortable with himself, and I liked the "aww, shucks" look on Aaron's face when Brandon made those comments. Aaron seems like a really sweet free soul and I hope something good comes out of his appearance on PR.
• Kentaro's funny montage - that sequence where he was trying to invite Kenya to go to the sauna and ends up wishing her a Merry Christmas is so hilarious! :)
• The shout-outs to the underrated designers. I liked that Shawn said she'd like to see more from Cha-Cha and his color explosions. I always feel bad for the first designer eliminated - I wish PR would just have a no-elimination policy for the 1st challenge so that each designer can have a chance to get their bearings and we and the judges can see at least two looks before someone is eliminated. I hope Cha-Cha figures out how to sell his designs online, lol!
• I thought it was nice of Shawn to apologize to Samantha for any hurt she caused her during her talking head comments. It seemed like a sincere apology on Shawn's part, although IMHO I don't think she really needed to apologize since almost everyone made snarky comments about other people's designs during those talking head segments!
• Speaking of Shawn, despite the twins controversies, I think she came across rather well during the reunion show. She seemed to be in a good mood, she engaged in the discussions with good humor, and she even kept her cool when Kenya was kind of attacking her after the talking heads montage.
• The impressions of the twins style of speaking - the impressions were spot on, and even the twins had a laugh at themselves while watching the clips.
• And on a shallower note, I agree with the person up-thread who said that Michael looks damn good with blonde hair! :'}

All-in-all, I thought this was an enjoyable reunion show, and I hope to see some of the designers again in the future.

Edited December 3, 2017 by frogzapper
Edited to correct the spelling of Shawn's name - guess I had "The Good Doctor" on my mind!

[Diane Mars]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Since people keep asking exactly what was said during the cheating episode, I am copying and pasting my entire post from the quotes thread:

Yes, but what I was referring to was before that... While Mickael and Margarita were talking in Spanish in the workroom...

[Former Nun]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Gigi Hadad's mom: Are you a judge on this show or are you a participant?

What's great about this is that that "celebrity" judge isn't even assigned her own name:  Yolanda van den Herik Hadid Foster Hadid (of "Real Housewife" fame).

[Former Nun]

Aren't the participants' measuring tapes in the workroom fabric?  That's what they look like to me.   Supposedly Claire had a "retractable" measuring tape and used it in the apartment.

[ichbin]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Since people keep asking exactly what was said during the cheating episode, I am copying and pasting my entire post from the quotes thread:

It seems that the copying of existing garments (in lieu of actually designing) is primarily what the other contestants were considering to be cheating by the twins.  If Claire hadn't initially admitted to Tim about having taken measurements outside of the workroom that alone would probably not have gotten her kicked off considering the judges comments about influence, etc. 

[Wings]

11 hours ago, Diane Mars said:

Regarding the cheating, I also remember that Margarita was saying to Mickael that she's seen her with a paper on which she reported the measurements.... Is my memory playing with me ? Because if not, that's the "proof" that, yes, it was in the appartement and NOT in the workroom !!!!!

I heard that too.  The pen and paper got trumped by the tape measure in the conversations that followed.

16 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Aren't the participants' measuring tapes in the workroom fabric?  That's what they look like to me.   Supposedly Claire had a "retractable" measuring tape and used it in the apartment.

They stressed retractable and that may be the reason for the emphasis.  But Clair did say that she took it home by mistake.  She may have been dodging the fact that she brought one from home.  

18 hours ago, Desert Rat said:

Hi Claire.

HA!!  Love it. 

4 hours ago, frogzapper said:

Aaron's montage - yes, I know some of his designs were a little out there and rather sloppily executed, but I enjoyed seeing him this season. I liked how Brandon said it was so refreshing to meet someone who's so comfortable with himself, and I liked the "aww, shucks" look on Aaron's face when Brandon made those comments. Aaron seems like a really sweet free soul and I hope something good comes out of his appearance on PR.

I agree.  I liked him here.  I had not remembered anything about him other than his tighty whities.  

4 hours ago, frogzapper said:

And on a shallower note, I agree with the person up-thread who said that Michael looks damn good with blonde hair! :'}

That was me.  I was shocked at how good he looked.  A hair cut can change a lot.  The bangs he had made him look like Ish Kabibble.   I have no personal knowledge of this person but my mother would say this about people who had bad bangs. 

[jhlipton]

17 hours ago, Former Nun said:

Don't miss DesertRat's brief comment at the top of Page 4 ..."precious" (prescient?)!

It's brilliant (re nasty comments posted about Amy):

20 hours ago, Desert Rat said:

Hi Claire.

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, Diane Mars said:

Yes, but what I was referring to was before that... While Mickael and Margarita were talking in Spanish in the workroom...

The only thing they showed was Margarita (referring to the twins) saying, "Seriously, she’s so clueless.  Has she not even noticed?  I’m not gonna say anything.”  Michael responded, "I know."

Then Tim jumped in and asked, "So there wasn't anything untoward being said?" 

Margarita insisted that she was just opening up privately to Michael about her own insecurities.  That's NOT what happened.  When it was originally shown, I opined here that I have been taught that it is rude in a "work" environment to speak in a language with the express intent of excluding others from understanding what's being said.  Margarita's lying about what they were saying really kind of proves my point.  Had she really been expressing her insecurities, that would have been one thing - but she still denies what she was actually doing.

[amazingracefan]

On 12/2/2017 at 3:27 PM, phoenix780 said:

This reunion was a great summary of the season for me. Way too much self-congratulation for featuring models of all sizes 16+ seasons into a franchise, especially since they still only got invited to the digital version of a magazine (unless...is that one of the magazines that's digital only now?). But ultimately enjoyable as a reality TV show, for me,  thanks to the twins and the drama that swirls around them. They were great villains. 

As someone who comments on the show online I could have done without the "don't read the comments" stuff, or the "I only take the good." We can be brutal at times, but we're also pretty thoughtful critics, and criticism is good. Plus we're nowhere near as bad as the judges (who oddly weren't at the reunion to validate the "best season ever" storyline). The show, at least, should be grateful people still care enough to comment. I didn't change my opinion on Tim for his behavior on his other show. I may have now, though. A professional critic shouldn't be so dismissive of us online folk. That's my feeling, anyway. 

Overall though, this was my most enjoyed season since the move to Lifetime. I hope the next cast is as entertaining. 

I don't think the judges ever are at the reunions, it's all very controlled and censored really.  They had a go at the guest judges as if to make up for it, but it just looked a token montage as they just come and go every week unlike the 3 main judges.  Of course if some of them want to get on All Star seasons they'll just say what they are told as well, but there's always editing to cut out what the producers don't want said.  It's funny how regimented and strict it is though, even when Claire's elimination first came up Tim Gunn immediately stepped in and said we have to save that for a later segment.  The reunions always seem to lack much spontaneity, it doesn't have a live feel like the Survivor reunions, I always feel the hand of the editor behind it.

And related to all this strict organisation I got the impression that most of them didn't really want to be there, probably including Kentaro even (in an interview he said he felt Tim Gunn didn't like his work).  It would be easy to say the twins being there made people feel uncomfortable but it also didn't feel like people could speak freely that much. 

On the twins issue we were also told they used pen and paper which apparently isn't allowed back in their apartments either.  And back during the season I think I remember it coming up that Claire wrote something on her hand, if she did that then it would seem to show an attempt to hide and deceive.  One of the issues that would come up, and of course was ignored at the reunion, was the opinion of those who were eliminated prior to Claire and Shawn, during the period when they were breaking the rules.  They were the ones who were swindled.

As for Tim Gunn saying they all shouldn't read comments on the internet, I think most of them either got little reaction or mainly positive.  The ones that got it worst were the twins, most disliked them and found them annoying, and the cheating scandal just confirmed that.  Though I'm sure some comments were unpleasantly personal.  Margarita was hated by a loud group, the worst moments I thought were someone saying she used the hurricane story for sympathy and someone else saying they knew a woman from Puerto Rico who wasn't nice and all Puerto Rican women are the same.  Really over the top and unnecessary.

[Diane Mars]

45 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

The only thing they showed was Margarita (referring to the twins) saying, "Seriously, she’s so clueless.  Has she not even noticed?  I’m not gonna say anything.”  Michael responded, "I know."

Then Tim jumped in and asked, "So there wasn't anything untoward being said?" 

Margarita insisted that she was just opening up privately to Michael about her own insecurities.  That's NOT what happened.  When it was originally shown, I opined here that I have been taught that it is rude in a "work" environment to speak in a language with the express intent of excluding others from understanding what's being said.  Margarita's lying about what they were saying really kind of proves my point.  Had she really been expressing her insecurities, that would have been one thing - but she still denies what she was actually doing.

I wasn't talking about the reunion, but the Dixie Challenge episode, when Margarita was pissed off for what she thought was a rip off of her previous week winning look, and then messed up and was only saved because of her immunity !

[AZChristian]

13 minutes ago, Diane Mars said:

I wasn't talking about the reunion, but the Dixie Challenge episode, when Margarita was pissed off for what she thought was a rip off of her previous week winning look, and then messed up and was only saved because of her immunity !

Sorry - I misunderstood what you were looking for. I've long since deleted the Dixie cup episode.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, amazingracefan said:

As for Tim Gunn saying they all shouldn't read comments on the internet, I think most of them either got little reaction or mainly positive.

Don't take Previously as a bellwether fo0r the Internet in general.  I'm sure there are a ton of comments like the one Claire posted about Amy (thanks, @Desert Rat!), as well as nasty comments about Kenya (due to her race and size) and Ayana (due to her religion) on other social media.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

14 hours ago, Diane Mars said:

Regarding the cheating, I also remember that Margarita was saying to Mickael that she's seen her with a paper on which she reported the measurements.... Is my memory playing with me ? Because if not, that's the "proof" that, yes, it was in the appartement and NOT in the workroom !!!!!

 

4 hours ago, Diane Mars said:

Yes, but what I was referring to was before that... While Mickael and Margarita were talking in Spanish in the workroom...

This was mentioned two other times in S16.E9 which is why I copied and pasted the quotes from that episode:

Quote

Michael: She has a retractable ruler in the apartment that she goes home and measures her garments for proportion, for fit.
Tim: How do you know that?
Michael: I've seen it and we discussed it and she has mentioned it to me.
Tim: Well, we will look into this.
Michael: She writes down the measurements either on a piece of paper or her hand and comes back and drafts the pattern instantaneously.
Tim: If this is happening, it must stop.

 

Quote

Michael: Okay. The top that you guys created for the good and evil challenge - Shawn was wearing that top that day.
Claire: We did not use the top that she was wearing.
Margarita: You guys speced the top and drew it. It was on the table.
Amy: Where, at home?
Margarita: Yeah.
Claire: I measured a tank top and I drew out a shape and I put-
Margarita: With measurements.
Claire: Four measurements on it. I put four measurements on it.
Amy: Hold it. But that means you had a tape measure at home which is explicitly against the rules.
Margarita: We cannot have tape measures or pens or papers outside of the workroom.
Claire: It's a tank!
Margarita: And we're not allowed to do it and it's unfair to the rest of us.

[Desert Rat]

9 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

This was mentioned two other times in S16.E9 which is why I copied and pasted the quotes from that episode:

 

You are a fantastic historian/stenographer.  Thank you.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 minutes ago, Desert Rat said:

You are a fantastic historian/stenographer.  Thank you.  

Heh, I am all about letting Claire's (admittedly ill-advised) words speak for themselves! She admitted to everyone in the lounge to having a tape measure in the apartment, drawing the shape of a tank top aka admitting she had pen and paper at the apartment, and making four measurements of said tank top (her defense being "IT'S JUST A TANK TOP!") so her claims at the reunion that she was confused and that she DID NOT use the measuring tape are total bull shit.

[ichbin]

6 hours ago, Diane Mars said:

Yes, but what I was referring to was before that... While Mickael and Margarita were talking in Spanish in the workroom...

During the 8th episode, after Tim came in to look at the designs in progress, Margarita was speaking to Michael in Spanish.  The translation shown was:

Margarita: " I went to the bathroom and the pants were there.  She has a measring tape and she measures in her room".  (Then in English) "She hides it pretty well." (Then I can't remember if it was in English or su-titled) Margarita said, "I'm going to be upset if she wins.", to which Michael replied, "She's not going to win."

That seems to be the first mention of illicit measuring.  Prior to that point all of the negative comments seemed to be in reference to the copying of designs.  Earlier in the episode after Margarita saw that the initial top Claire was making looked very similar to her dress from the previous challenge, Margarita began pointing it out to various other designers.  At one point in a talking head she said, "Ive known that the twins knock off other designers and I was complacent with it, but now she's copying me."  

[carrier76]

Kenya slowly grated on my nerves over the course of the season and I have no idea how she made it as far as she did. As much as I dislike the twins, calling them out for being insecure is pretty rich coming from Kenya, who, towards the end especially, couldn’t accomplish anything with being coddled by Tim Gunn.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Heidi: I think you guys all borrow from each other. I think being here together in this tight space, you inspire each other so there's nothing wrong with that. The only thing that you're not allowed to do is go on the internet here.
Michael: There is no need for internet when you brought the pieces that you're ripping off.
Gigi Hadad's mom: Yeah, but I don't think you guys' focus should be on that. Focus on being better and not on what other people are doing because it's going to block your own growth.
Nina: You know your own strength and your own creative power and you don't need to dip into anybody else's.
Zac: If you focus on what other people are doing, it doesn't lead to success.

I know it was mentioned that the judges don't usually participate in the reunion shows but I would LOVE to hear what Heidi, Zac, and Nina have to say now that the season has aired and people have posted side by side comparisons of the twins' runway looks next to the pieces that they copied.* The judges were all up on their high horses about how Michael, Margarita, and the others should basically mind their own beeswax and ignore the blatant rip offs that the twins were doing.

As anyone who creates, if you follow their advice and just ignore all the knock offs, you are letting people steal from you and being complacent about it. I know of instances where Paper Source stole a card design from an independent designer, blatantly knocked it off, and sold it at their store. A jewelry artist who is a friend of a friend had her design stolen by a large chain (I think it was Claire's, but I'm not 100% sure) that started selling a very specific design. Both of these people sued to stop them and won. If someone was ripping off Zac's designs, would he just lie down and take it? There's inspiration, which is incorporating an element, and then there's stealing.

Also hilarious that Heidi said it's okay for the designers to be inspired by each other and then later Kentaro got reamed by the judges for copying Brandon because he put a dangling strap on one of his designs.

* ETA: I really wish that the side by side comparisons had been shown to the twins during the reunion so they could try to keep up their "we didn't copy any designs" defense.

Edited December 4, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Diane Mars]

6 hours ago, ichbin said:

During the 8th episode, after Tim came in to look at the designs in progress, Margarita was speaking to Michael in Spanish.  The translation shown was:

Margarita: " I went to the bathroom and the pants were there.  She has a measring tape and she measures in her room".  (Then in English) "She hides it pretty well." (Then I can't remember if it was in English or su-titled) Margarita said, "I'm going to be upset if she wins.", to which Michael replied, "She's not going to win."

That seems to be the first mention of illicit measuring.  Prior to that point all of the negative comments seemed to be in reference to the copying of designs.  Earlier in the episode after Margarita saw that the initial top Claire was making looked very similar to her dress from the previous challenge, Margarita began pointing it out to various other designers.  At one point in a talking head she said, "Ive known that the twins knock off other designers and I was complacent with it, but now she's copying me."  

THANK YOU ! That was exactly what I was thinking about :D

[Beden]

Apologies of this has been addressed but--while I give kudos to TPTB for finally admitting that not everyone on the planet is a size 2 and including real sized (albeit 6 foot tall real people) as models--does anyone know if this season was a one-off or if this will be standard from now on? Assuming that the show will continue, obviously.

As has been mentioned numerous times, the average size for American women is about a 14 so, to me, it simply makes sense to include varied sized models. Competition or not, fashion is a multi-billion dollar business. To only encourage a product which, realistically, excludes a large percentage of the buyers is simply foolish and self-defeating both for the designers, the manufacturers and the retailers.

[carrps]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

As anyone who creates, if you follow their advice and just ignore all the knock offs, you are letting people steal from you and being complacent about it. I know of instances where Paper Source stole a card design from an independent designer, blatantly knocked it off, and sold it at their store. A jewelry artist who is a friend of a friend had her design stolen by a large chain (I think it was Claire's, but I'm not 100% sure) that started selling a very specific design. Both of these people sued to stop them and won. If someone was ripping off Zac's designs, would he just lie down and take it? There's inspiration, which is incorporating an element, and then there's stealing.

 

Thank you!

[holly4755]

Everybody is not a size 2 - I do have to point out that I have a young niece who wanted to wear some of my vintage clothes but she is a size 0 some number I never was near. but she tried on a size 10 dress I had and it fit her perfectly. methinks sizes have grown over 40 years or so. This could also explain why a size 12 Marilyn Monroe was a size 12 according to her labels and is being displayed on size 6 dress forms. 

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, holly4755 said:

Everybody is not a size 2 - I do have to point out that I have a young niece who wanted to wear some of my vintage clothes but she is a size 0 some number I never was near. but she tried on a size 10 dress I had and it fit her perfectly. methinks sizes have grown over 40 years or so. This could also explain why a size 12 Marilyn Monroe was a size 12 according to her labels and is being displayed on size 6 dress forms. 

It's getting worse.  20 years ago, in the UK on vacation, I had to purchase size 14 even though I was a size 12 at home.  Now if you are a size 14 in the UK, you are a size 10 on this side of the Atlantic.

[Miss Bones]

I loved the montage when Kentaro kept saying "sauna" and Kenya finally questions "Salmon?"  I died.

RE:  Kenya's seeming bitter, I am agreeing with those who said that her comment, about how everyone else's collections sucked, did come off as a "just kidding...but not really kidding" dig.

And on a couple of superficial notes:  The first thing I said when I saw Kenya was that I could not believe she is wearing that stupid scarf still!  And--like someone upthread mentioned--when Tim brought it up, I thought there was going to be a more sentimental story behind her wearing it 24/7/365... but the story was that she bought it for $5.00, and now always wears it...? Whenever I see it, I cant help but imagine what it must smell like, whatwith her wearing it allllll the time.  Also, that hairstyle of Brandon's needs to stop, Claire's bronzer/blush was awful, and Amy's hair reminded me of Jimmy Neutron.  And what is wrong with ChaCha?  He reminded me of a mime, how he kept doing the "speak no evil" hands clasped over his mouth, and the odd expressions.  He seems like a very strange individual.

[Oholibamah]

Claire, what's your side of the story? 

Amy: did you or did you not have a measuring tape? 

Margarita: I think you're lying. 

Sentell: something something that made it clear he wasn't listening. 

Kenya: eyeroll eyeroll snide comment. 

 

Like, I get that the twins are obnoxious, but I really hate when somebody is ganged up on. I thought Amy, Margarita and sadly, Kenya, came out of that looking way worse than Claire. 

Michael, to his credit, made an effort to apologize for how he handled the situation. I thought he really redeemed himself and was a class act. 

I do think Claire was backpedalling, but I also think her claims were a sensible lie and everyone else should've stopped fighting about it if they didn't want to "waste time" and "make it the twin show" as they claimed many times.

Ugh.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Oholibamah

[Sassenach]

On 11/30/2017 at 11:44 PM, Nordly Beaumont said:

I thought Amy coulda used a chill pill. We get it, you hate Claire. She seemed way too wrapped up in taking Claire down. I'm sure it's frustrating to know the truth and listen to someone flat out lie, but everyone knows Claire's lying and she got kicked off, so IMO Amy could have done some of that mouth shutting too.

She did seem invested in it, but I took that as reflecting her experience as a teacher and having dealt with all kinds of BS stories to rationalize cheating.

[ichbin]

20 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If someone was ripping off Zac's designs, would he just lie down and take it?

He might not like it but depending on just exactly what was being copied there might be nothing he could do about it.  Copyright laws regarding fashion don't generally protect designs apart from things like logos, fabric patterns, or unique function, etc.  There is a lot of freedom left for copying .  Not necessarily fair, but that's the way it is.  

[ichbin]

3 hours ago, Missbones said:

but the story was that she bought it for $5.00, and now always wears it.

This reminded me of something that always amazes me on this show.   I remember seeing her in the workroom with it and thinking I would have to rip it off if I were her.  So many times designers are shown in the workroom wearing things like jackets or scarves while they are working.  I could never work like that.  Cutting fabric, sewing, etc. wearking something bulky or dangling..hell no, .I would even have to have my hair pulled back to be comfortable.  It doesn't seem to bother them though.  

[SnarkyTart]

When is Kentaro getting his own reality show?  I need this in my life.

The fabric on Brandon's reunion outfit looks like it got sprayed with Claire's split pea soup while her head was spinning around.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, ichbin said:

He might not like it but depending on just exactly what was being copied there might be nothing he could do about it.  Copyright laws regarding fashion don't generally protect designs apart from things like logos, fabric patterns, or unique function, etc.  There is a lot of freedom left for copying .  Not necessarily fair, but that's the way it is.  

Even so, if Zac saw someone ripping off one of his designs, I doubt that his initial reaction would be to shrug serenely and ignore it, which is essentially how the judges said the other designers should react to the twins copying. I’m pretty sure his first reaction would be to call his lawyer and see what they could do to stop it, as opposed to taking his own zen advice and  telling himself, “It’s okay. I’ll just focus on what I’m doing rather than what other people are doing.” Sure, there are legal limitations but you still have to be proactive about protecting your brand when someone else is making knock offs. 

[jhlipton]

On 12/3/2017 at 7:42 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

A jewelry artist who is a friend of a friend had her design stolen by a large chain (I think it was Claire's, but I'm not 100% sure) that started selling a very specific design.

Dayummm, is there nothing that beyatch won't do???

[Beden]

18 hours ago, holly4755 said:

Everybody is not a size 2 - I do have to point out that I have a young niece who wanted to wear some of my vintage clothes but she is a size 0 some number I never was near. but she tried on a size 10 dress I had and it fit her perfectly. methinks sizes have grown over 40 years or so. This could also explain why a size 12 Marilyn Monroe was a size 12 according to her labels and is being displayed on size 6 dress forms. 

Vanity sizing has been a round for a few decades, if not longer. A garment may well have been labeled as a 12 in, say, 1955 but the exact same dress may be marked a 4 or 6 now. Nothing's changed other than the label with the theory that by flattering the customer into believing that they're a teeny-tiny more sales will happen. And fashion, seriously, is often about flattery and there's nothing really  wrong with that so long as it doesn't lead to eating diseases or something. I also know women who cut out tags with size #'s on them they don't want to see.

Standard sizing doesn't exist in the US and, so far as I know nor does it exist anywhere else (please correct me if I"m wrong about this) . Most women have several sizes in their closets, all fitting just fine. I know I range over about 4 sizes, which are all, actually the same size. As silly as it it, you get to know that a size 10 in Ralph Lauren fits just great but in a LLBean or something you know you need an 8 or 12.

[Qoass]

I can understand the hostility the others had for Claire even now. Every time she got into the top 3 (or the bottom 3 for that matter) with something she cheated on, that deprived one of the other designers of a review by the judges. Every time Shawn got by on a piece that was partially sewn by her sister, somebody else got the boot for something they made with no outside design input or help with tailoring. I'd be pissed too.

And I know y'all are going to hate me for this but I was frequently put off by Kentaro's whimsy. He 's a year older than Kenya and if she went bouncing around the room with her hands to her cheeks like that, we would have the knives out.

[Lady Iris]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 0:28 AM, msburg said:

Oh my Brandon.  He was trying so very hard with his look for the reunion.  The dye job, the lacing, the white socks with white sandals (that I quite seriously thought were elf shoes until I could see them closer in high def), along with the very French braids.  And I hate to judge on appearance, but he needs to take better care of his skin!  It does not read young 24 year old guy.

Cannot believe he's only 24.

 

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 10:26 AM, nr65000 said:

When they recapped the “design-off” between the twins and Shawn having her breakdown I remember thinking at the time how Shawn couched it as “letting” Clair win instead of letting the judges send her home when she was unable to complete a design on her own. During the reunion she doubled down by saying she would always fall on her sword for Clair. In both instances I thought I caught a glimpse of something cross Clair’s face. Why is Shawn unable to say that fair and square her sister would have beat her instead of acting like she gave up the win to save her sister. Fall on her sword my ass. Everyone including Clair knows she would have lost and by playing the martyed sister she tries to take that away from Clair.  If they are sooooo close why couldn’t she just say my sister won. Odd dynamic.  

So well articulated. I was appalled at the way Shawn made it seem like she was magnanimously stepping aside so her sister could fulfill her dreams. Lady! You had nothing on your dress form! Nothing!!! You weren't giving up anything or stepping aside or martyring yourself. Kudos to fabricating that story. I'd have never come up with something like that. I'd have gone out in front of the judges with nothing and been hideously embarrassed for life.

[Wings]

10 hours ago, Beden said:

Vanity sizing has been a round for a few decades, if not longer. A garment may well have been labeled as a 12 in, say, 1955 but the exact same dress may be marked a 4 or 6 now. Nothing's changed other than the label with the theory that by flattering the customer into believing that they're a teeny-tiny more sales will happen. And fashion, seriously, is often about flattery and there's nothing really  wrong with that so long as it doesn't lead to eating diseases or something. I also know women who cut out tags with size #'s on them they don't want to see.

Standard sizing doesn't exist in the US and, so far as I know nor does it exist anywhere else (please correct me if I"m wrong about this) . Most women have several sizes in their closets, all fitting just fine. I know I range over about 4 sizes, which are all, actually the same size. As silly as it it, you get to know that a size 10 in Ralph Lauren fits just great but in a LLBean or something you know you need an 8 or 12.

Yes and there is another snafu.  I have 2 pairs of jeans from Old Navy one is size 8 and one size 12, both fit.  They are all different styles but that shouldn't matter.   :^) 

Edited December 5, 2017 by wings707

[holly4755]

Vanity sizing indeed, and if you add in I bought cheap clothes when I was young, I think that adds to it, because my wedding dress was a nice expensive cocktail dress and was size 8. The funny thing is the cheap clothes I bought when I was young still look good, if out of style,  today, but newer clothes wear out or stain quickly. I m still wearing 40 year old t shirts without stains, but can't seem to keep a new T shirt for an entire year without it getting ruined. 

when I go out, I do not look like other people, ha ha . I don't mean I wear clothes that i had 40 years ago aside from stretchy t shirts, since I have gained weight,  but it seems like my closet has been raided by regular teens for the last 30 years.  A young boy took all my elephant leg jeans, he loved them. Didn't care if they were girls clothes. 

[jhlipton]

9 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

You weren't giving up anything or stepping aside or martyring yourself. Kudos to fabricating that story.

First time she made anything by herself on the show, and it was even original!

[Special K]

13 hours ago, holly4755 said:

Vanity sizing indeed,

Do you guys remember this expose done, some years ago, of the actual measurements of Men's pants?  The Old Navy "36-inch waist" actually measured 41 inches!  Sheesh.

http://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-chart-090710/