S01.E05: Doink

[formerlyfreedom]

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Midge dives into a new line of work and makes some quirky friends along the way. Susie continues her emphatic quest to keep Midge's career moving forward, but gets hit with a couple setbacks. Both Midge and Joel experience the downsides of their new lifestyles.

 

[ichbin]

Loving this show!  The characters are all good.  I'm really hoping that Joel and Midge getting back together isn't the end game though.  Not perfect...but nothing is.  Still waiting to see if Midge will spend any quality parenting time with her kids.  Finding it odd that her parents don't seem to have all that much to say about that point.  I guess production is able to save some money by seldom having them (particularly the daughter) on screen.  

Love that old New York landmarks like B. Altman and the Stage Deli are included.  I have to admit that I miss the old time full service department stores with staff who were professional and really knew their merchandise.    

[MorganSte]

I love all of Midge's new co-workers, they're small parts, but they really stand out.  Especially love Vivian who calls everyone by the movie star they most look like.   It's a little funny how Midge acts like she's so much older than them when she's only 26.  But I guess being married matures one :)

I hope Midge never takes Joel back.  He not only walked out on her, but walked out on the children.  Is he even paying child support?  I know he didn't do anything about his wife and children becoming homeless.   I would never trust him again if I was Midge.  

 

4 hours ago, ichbin said:

Finding it odd that her parents don't seem to have all that much to say about that point.  I guess production is able to save some money by seldom having them (particularly the daughter) on screen.

My Aunt Jean was divorced around the same time as Midge, and when she went back to work, my cousins were mostly watched by the neighbor lady or grandma.  My aunt said that was just how it was done then.  You were sort of expected to go out so you could find a new husband.  OR you had to work long hours and only got home after the kids were in bed.

[aradia22]

Oh, ho... like I wouldn't recognize Sutton Foster's voice. 

I'm surprised given her fervor that she wouldn't have even asked if there was another position available. Sure, the job was for an elevator operator but she walked through an entire salesfloor of women to get up to the office. But hey, it didn't take her too long to figure it out.

All her dad's questions made me laugh. I still think he's miscast but he's still a good enough actor to nail the line delivery.

I like Vivian.

Mildly surprised they weren't forced to work in heels. Also surprised there wasn't a uniform/dress code.

Harriet... Hrm... still side-eyeing the handling of race on this show.

The clothes on this show!

Her mom's reaction to the present feels more like the character we met in episode 1.

It was interesting to see Miriam finally struggle on stage. I think every other time we've seen her, she's been fired up. She's still amusing when she's not but since she hadn't crafted the material at all, it didn't play the way it could have. Especially since she didn't set up the situations well for the audience who didn't know any of those people at work.

Skated on the edge of doing something there with that audience member calling her on the "Negro" clerk thing. But of course nothing came of it. 

Wallace Shawn!

Joel's parents seemed oddly accepting of Penny given everything.

I feel like a lot of shows and movies stumble into that confrontation between friends awkwardly just because they know it's a beat that heightens the drama but they don't know how to get there. I believed Midge and Susie's fight. It happened organically.

Ha. Oh, good. I was worried with them being so congenial that Joel's parents had gotten lobotomies. "Shiksas are for practice." Now, that's more like it.

Why are Archie and Imogene icing out Joel all of sudden? Is it because Peggy's involved?

Aw, Ricky Nelson. I haven't listened to him in forever.

That was the most amazing rejection... So polite.

Is that a different kid playing Ethan?

[txhorns79]

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Ha. Oh, good. I was worried with them being so congenial that Joel's parents had gotten lobotomies. "Shiksas are for practice." Now, that's more like it.

It's almost like a quasi-call back to Mad Men where Peggy's mother warns her that her Jewish boyfriend, Abe, is only using her for practice if they live together without being married. 

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Joel's parents seemed oddly accepting of Penny given everything.

I don't really understand the timeline here.  How long could it possibly have been since Joel left?  A month? Two months?  It just seems really fast for him to be introducing the woman he had the affair with to his parents. 

[Bec]

The way dad looked at Miriam when he was asking all those questions, he seemed proud of her for having the gumption to get herself a job despite zero work experience. He didn't say it in so many words, but it's kind of adorable.

Though he wouldn't be so astonished at her capacity for putting in a hard day's work if he only knew how much work she put into being a housewife.

[aradia22]

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The way dad looked at Miriam when he was asking all those questions, he seemed proud of her for having the gumption to get herself a job despite zero work experience. He didn't say it in so many words, but it's kind of adorable.

Though he wouldn't be so astonished at her capacity for putting in a hard day's work if he only knew how much work she put into being a housewife.

I read it differently. It seemed like he was trying to come up with everything she might not have considered in a combination of overprotective and somewhat patronizing. But she was able to assuage all his concerns/reasons she shouldn't go so he gave up. He seemed very doubtful like... 'are you sure they're going to pay you'? 

[MorganSte]

2 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I read it differently. It seemed like he was trying to come up with everything she might not have considered in a combination of overprotective and somewhat patronizing. But she was able to assuage all his concerns/reasons she shouldn't go so he gave up. He seemed very doubtful like... 'are you sure they're going to pay you'? 

I thought he was shocked, but pleased that Midge would go out and work.

[Stuffy]

On 12/2/2017 at 5:58 PM, aradia22 said:

Oh, ho... like I wouldn't recognize Sutton Foster's voice. 

Yeah I noticed it right away. Amy loves her, so I wouldn’t be surprised if she did more songs as the show goes on. Sutton definitely can make her voice fit the show’s timeframe if Amy wants. 

[Bec]

13 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I read it differently. It seemed like he was trying to come up with everything she might not have considered in a combination of overprotective and somewhat patronizing. But she was able to assuage all his concerns/reasons she shouldn't go so he gave up. He seemed very doubtful like... 'are you sure they're going to pay you'? 

I thought he was all of those things (overprotective, patronizing, doubtful) and also proud of her at the same time. These things don't have to be mutually exclusive! Midge's dad has very complicated feelings. Heh.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

I'm just giving the Emmy for music supervision to this show right now. "Life Upon The Wicked Stage" by Blossom Dearie? I'm dead. I wish they'd throw all the episodes onto Tunefind though. Right now they only seem to have the pilot up. A few songs I'd like to try to identify.

[aradia22]

@PamelaMaeSnap I'm assuming you're watching on amazon. At least on the website player, you can click "X-Ray" and it will show you information like that. Usually the song and artist (sometimes the artist is unavailable) and often the important actors in a scene. It's a cool feature.

[OtterMommy]

I think this is the episode where Midge learns to never trust a Sicilian!  (I'm kind of shocked no one beat me to that joke).

I'm really enjoying the way the relationship between Midge and her Father is playing out.  It's clear that he (and her mother) are very much the "old" way while Midge is the "new woman," but they still seem to be accepting of each other.  I actually couldn't stand her father in the first few episodes and he seemed just so cliche, but I think he's starting to really grow on me.

It was painful to watch, but I'm glad that Midge bombed at the Gaslight (twice!)  So far, this comedy thing has been very easy for her, as long as she wasn't sober.  There's not a single comic, alive or dead, who just coasted into their career, so Midge needed to have these experiences.  And, honestly, her sunny view on life was starting to seem a little unrealistic, so I'm glad she had to come back down to earth a bit.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

16 hours ago, aradia22 said:

@PamelaMaeSnap I'm assuming you're watching on amazon. At least on the website player, you can click "X-Ray" and it will show you information like that. Usually the song and artist (sometimes the artist is unavailable) and often the important actors in a scene. It's a cool feature.

THANK YOU!!! Yes, watching on Amazon Prime but on our TV. Saving last episode for today (cringed through last part of Episode 7 but as hubby said it really removed his suspension of disbelief ... I'll post on that one there though). 

[neciamorris]

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Why are Archie and Imogene icing out Joel all of sudden? Is it because Peggy's involved?

While I’m sure Archie and Imogene had it out over Archie carousing with Joel (he won) we watched him commit to that foursome without consulting Imogene. I was worried but when Archie made the call, my opinion of her increased 10 fold already liking her (I think she hilarious) but worried about whether she valued her relationship with Midge for Midge or as part of a couple. They could keep their individual friendships but Imogene wasn’t becoming couple friends with Penny PANN.  Take that Joel!  He thought he could really just slot Penny into Midge’a place and he’d get another perfect version of his life—without all of the pressure of living with Midge’s so called disappointment.  Such a weakling.

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 8:53 AM, MorganSte said:

I hope Midge never takes Joel back.  He not only walked out on her, but walked out on the children.  Is he even paying child support?  I know he didn't do anything about his wife and children becoming homeless.   I would never trust him again if I was Midge. 

They have not even mentioned the word "divorce" yet.  No one has seen a lawyer.  I think at this point they're just separated, not legally separated, but just living apart.  This is something my parents did a couple of times when I was a kid., except in my case it was my dad who moved back in with his parents, who lived next door!

Edited December 15, 2017 by Quilt Fairy

[Clanstarling]

On 12/2/2017 at 3:58 PM, aradia22 said:

Harriet... Hrm... still side-eyeing the handling of race on this show. <snip>

Aw, Ricky Nelson. I haven't listened to him in forever.<snip>

Is that a different kid playing Ethan? <snip>

I have to agree with you on the race issue in this episode. Nightclubs and dive bars are one thing - but I highly doubt make up counter girls in 1958 would invite a black colleague to anything, especially their home.

I was the Ricky fan, but my husband's the one who recognized him. He was my first crush - I was a devastated 8 year old when he married. LOL.

I thought Ethan looked and acted different. But it didn't occur to me that they might have recast. Maybe they chose to go with a kid who could do more than just scream.

[morakot]

This show reminds me so much of my grandparents who lived in New York from the late 20's. By the mid-50's, my grandmother was a sample cutter in the fashion district. I have a distant memory of her in a shop like the one Joel's father runs. The "negro girl" at the make up counter who was a model could have worked for my grandfather's model agency. He had one of the first model agencies in NYC to handle what he called "sepia ladies" and, by the 50's, was putting his models on the cover of Ebony. In the early 50's, my mother was one of his models. 

[tennisgurl]

I actually liked seeing Midge bomb for the first time here. Not that I enjoyed her doing badly (watching anyone do badly at stand up is just painfully awkward) but it made her seem more human, and less like a Perfect Special Protagonist. She might have natural talent, but she does still need to work to get better. 

I definitely thought that her dad seemed proud of her for getting her job, just told in his odd, 50s dad way. 

[Cabarb]

I get that it’s much more dramatic for the plot that Joel left Maisel with 2 small children to raise as a single parent, but I really wish they had just been a young childless couple that didn’t work out. We could still see Maisel moving on and navigating life as a single woman without seeing her as the neglectful mother I believe her to be. I love Rachel and I want to love the show, but Maisel has almost no interaction with her children. Watching her run in from work every day, change clothes and run out again until all hours of the night is a problem for me. These kids have already lost the time they used to spend with their father and now their mother can’t seem to spare 30 minutes for them in her day. 

[aradia22]

I agree. I get why they did it for the show but ultimately, unless they make some changes, the way she neglects her kids only makes her look bad. Lorelai was flighty and wasn't the best parent but you never doubted how much she cared about Rory.

[bijoux]

But then we'd robbed of her set which contained a rant about her son. It's okay now. I can take him. I howled. 

[kwnyc]

Do you remember that movie, "This is My Life"? Nora Ephron directed Julie Kavner in the story of a woman with two kids who becomes a standup. At one pint she says something like: your kids want you near them. If you're happy doing something else, or miserable in the next room, they'll take you miserable in the next room.

I wonder if this show is influenced by that...there's little enough pop culture out there about women being both mothers AND standups (Remember "Punchline," with Sally Field and Tom Hanks?)

But I appreciate how specific it is about family and time.

A book I thought of when I was watching this was "Diane Arbus: A Biography" by Patricia Bosworth. Arbus was also the child of a wealthy Jewish family in NYC (they owned a department store). She was expected to be subservient to her father and mother until she married. When she chose to marry Allan Arbus, who was a fashion photographer, they were not happy. (Arbus's brother, Howard Nemerov also didn't go into the family business, and became a poet).

She supported Arbus when he left photography to go into acting (though unlike Mr. Maisel, he was good at it and made a career in it), and she took up photography herself.

I remember reading how the parents practically raised the Arbus's 2 daughters for some time, even to the point of weighing their first daughter to see if they could "let" Diane breastfeed her.

The infantilization of both Midge and Joel is constant: they get what they want from wealthy parents as long as they play at being grown ups. Getting a job outside the home is a huge threat to the status quo for Midge. For that matter, Joel doesn't seem to have realized how limited and dependent he is on his family's approval (and funding). He's not in any way equipped to ACTUALLY leave his job and find out what it is like to live on his own. His family made him that way, and he's not strong enough to change it. 

This is also reminiscent of "Goodbye, Columbus," (Philip Roth), in which Ron, the eldest son of a wealthy Jewish family in New Jersey returns home after playing college basketball, to be obediently folded into the family business. (And Brenda, the daughter of the family, breaks up with her working class boyfriend Neil, because ultimately she can't imagine living a life that's not like the one her family has planned for her.) (Also, a movie, with Richard Benjamin.)

Now that I've gone so far afield...I feel like this is the kind of source materials that feed this show, and make it excellent.

I haven't even gotten into how much I love Alex Borstein/Susie yet...

Edited January 10, 2018 by kwnyc
more thoughts

[ProudMary]

On 12/10/2017 at 5:10 PM, neciamorris said:

While I’m sure Archie and Imogene had it out over Archie carousing with Joel (he won) we watched him commit to that foursome without consulting Imogene. I was worried but when Archie made the call, my opinion of her increased 10 fold already liking her (I think she hilarious) but worried about whether she valued her relationship with Midge for Midge or as part of a couple. They could keep their individual friendships but Imogene wasn’t becoming couple friends with Penny PANN.  Take that Joel!  He thought he could really just slot Penny into Midge’a place and he’d get another perfect version of his life—without all of the pressure of living with Midge’s so called disappointment.  Such a weakling.

Given the fact that the show had built up just how much Imogene wanted to see The Music Man, I was very pleased at the scene where Archie cancelled the date.  She truly put her friendship with Midge at the forefront.  And Joel deserves every bit of what he's getting.

[CherithCutestory]

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Joel's parents seemed oddly accepting of Penny given everything.

Joel's mom had a great line in the pilot. Paraphrasing but "we have to make excuses not to see family now? What's the world coming to?"

They were so nice to Penny because she isn't and will never be family. They were polite and put on a nice show for her. Because that is how polite people treat strangers. They can put on a scene in front of family. Joel's dad can be a jerk and his mom can be neurotic. Because it's family.

I loved Joel's mom this episode though. She's actually quite charming.

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Do you remember that movie, "This is My Life"? Nora Ephron directed Julie Kavner in the story of a woman with two kids who becomes a standup. At one pint she says something like: your kids want you near them. If you're happy doing something else, or miserable in the next room, they'll take you miserable in the next room.

I've been thinking about that movie ever since I hard of this show. And I couldn't remember the name to save my life. SO thank you.

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Mildly surprised they weren't forced to work in heels. Also surprised there wasn't a uniform/dress code.

They do wear heels at work. But they commute in flats. They were changing from flats to heels at their lockers before. It's still a long day on your feet in heels but it's the commuting that kills you.

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Still waiting to see if Midge will spend any quality parenting time with her kids. 

I hope not that seems like a pretty boring episode to me.

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He thought he could really just slot Penny into Midge’a place and he’d get another perfect version of his life—without all of the pressure of living with Midge’s so called disappointment.  Such a weakling.

It's really amazing that he really thought this would work out. Never mind that he thought Penny could replace Midge. But that he thought Midge was the part of their couple that was replaceable, in the first place!! Midge could have any schmuck and they'd be a fun couple to spend time with. Because Midge is there! It's not Joel and [insert spouse here]. It's Midge and Joel, I guess.

Edited January 21, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[aradia22]

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I hope not that seems like a pretty boring episode to me.

It wouldn't have to be a whole episode. It could easily take the time that usually gets spent on Midge/Joel flashbacks. 

[CherithCutestory]

6 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

It wouldn't have to be a whole episode. It could easily take the time that usually gets spent on Midge/Joel flashbacks. 

Well, I hope that is cut too. But at least Joel is an adult who communicates on screen. Not a four year old who can't be expected to have any interesting dialogue. But they've done this in small moments with her schlepping all the way downtown with him to buy records at that record store because she saw some he might like. She only went to the park because he wanted to and was encouraging interests of his. Yes, she lets another mother watch him for a bit (which she volunteered to do) but the rest of the day had been with him.  Her holding the baby while she reads the ads.

Spoiler

And later with the time and effort that goes into his party.

Also, with the fact that she's not the one who abandoned them, in the first place.

Edited January 21, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[aradia22]

Blah, blah film studies... I think we've gotten a lot of hints that are harder to pick up on. Doing things for someone is different from spending time with someone. And I think that time is more meaningful and what you would remember more easily. Of course, that hasn't helped with Joel but that's because they made a mess of it if they wanted him to be sympathetic. 

[CherithCutestory]

2 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

Blah, blah film studies... I think we've gotten a lot of hints that are harder to pick up on. Doing things for someone is different from spending time with someone. And I think that time is more meaningful and what you would remember more easily. Of course, that hasn't helped with Joel but that's because they made a mess of it if they wanted him to be sympathetic. 

She was spending time with him in episode 4. And why should the show waste any time on pointless scenes?

Honestly, I don't care if she is a bad mother. Ethan can become a serial killer for all I care. As long as I don't have to watch forced scenes of child actors.

Edited January 21, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[aradia22]

Because it establishes character in a meaningful way? If it's done with intention, it isn't pointless.

[CherithCutestory]

2 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

Because it establishes character in a meaningful way? If it's done with intention, it isn't pointless.

How could it be meaningful? The show is about her being a comic not a mother.

I don't know of any show where the male character is considered ruined because he's not around his kids enough.

Edited January 21, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[aradia22]

I think part of the issue is that she's not just a female comic. She was introduced to us as a perfect 1950's housewife who put a lot of effort into appearances and managing the household and her husband's expectations. So you'd expect her to be a little more invested. But suddenly when Midge started to take her stand up career seriously we (the audience) started to hear how she wasn't sure she'd ever wanted to be a mother. Which seemed to come out of nowhere because it was Joel who was unhappy with their life, not her. 

Also, I don't tend to watch shows where male characters have children. When I did watch shows with male protagonists, they tended to not have families (Burn Notice, House, Psych, Leverage). But on Leverage a big part of his backstory was his dead son. And I think there were some arguments around Breaking Bad about whether he was doing it all for his family as he claimed. I think it's a valid issue to take up that doesn't have to come from a place of sexism. 

[shapeshifter]

When my sister and I were little kids in the 50s and we lived in suburbs near NYC, our mother was not only ethnically, physically, and socioeconomically equivalent to Midge, but she seemed to make nearly every effort to get away from us without sacrificing the appearance of being a good mother. We each have a few good memories of moments when she seemed to enjoy our company, just as we see Midge having with her kids. Not all mothers were like that in that time and place, but society was on the cusp of change—which was partly fueled by labor saving devices and mass production of essential commodities—and some young mothers wanted to get on board the train to some place more exciting—with or without their kids.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, CherithCutestory said:

How could it be meaningful? The show is about her being a comic not a mother.

I don't know of any show where the male character is considered ruined because he's not around his kids enough.

I may have missed it, but I didn't read anything about her being ruined because she's not around her kids enough. It's a legitimate question about a lead character, as @aradia22 pointed out - are they merely doing their duty as a parent (going to the park, organizing birthday parties) or do they truly love their kids. To know that, we need to see them in small moments that are more than simply dutiful. I don't want long, drawn out scenes either. We've gotten the duty scenes, but not ones with any warmth.

A Midge who is doing her duty purely because that was expected of her and doesn't really want to be around her kids is a different woman than Midge who loves her kids, but also loves the career she's setting out to do. It's not a matter of judgment, but a matter of defining and deepening the character.

As for male characters in shows, Don Draper's character in Mad Men was  fleshed out in part by the way he behaved regarding his children. Friday Night Lights had one character who was pretty much excoriated because of his neglect of his son. I'm betting there are others as well.  They were perhaps not considered ruined, but they were certainly judged.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Clanstarling

[kwnyc]

Right now, the kids are props. Ethan seems a bit slow for a child his age (the writing? The kid they cast?) and the baby is an infant. So there's not much we can see from their POV, and maybe Midge is the sort of mom who will get more interested in her kids when they get more interesting.

[millennium]

Midge's parents are ugly people and not very funny, even if they're supposed to be caricatures (although I'm not sure that is the intent).

[dleighg]

On 12/3/2017 at 5:56 PM, aradia22 said:

I read it differently. It seemed like he was trying to come up with everything she might not have considered in a combination of overprotective and somewhat patronizing.

I've been in situations with my young adult children. As a parent sometimes you're not sure they are "ready" to handle things (like investments, 401ks, whatever) and are pleasantly surprised that they really are ready, and have thought everything through. I think he was inwardly proud of her, but perhaps a bit upset that his position as "all knowing dad" was ending. I loved that scene.

[CurlyATX]

On 2/12/2018 at 7:25 AM, dleighg said:

I've been in situations with my young adult children. As a parent sometimes you're not sure they are "ready" to handle things (like investments, 401ks, whatever) and are pleasantly surprised that they really are ready, and have thought everything through. I think he was inwardly proud of her, but perhaps a bit upset that his position as "all knowing dad" was ending. I loved that scene.

That whole scene was something my dad would have done to me, even now and I'm freaking in my 40's.  I remember when I signed up for our first mortgage I selected "auto withdrawl" to which he said "you know that means you have to have the money in your checking account."  Naturally, I wasn't anywhere as patient ent at Midge was with her dad.  I wish I were though.  

[dleighg]

1 minute ago, CurlyATX said:

I remember when I signed up for our first mortgage I selected "auto withdrawl" to which he said "you know that means you have to have the money in your checking account." 

LOL, and now it's the opposite. I'm helping my almost-90 year old FIL (who ran into trouble because when he was hospitalized for quite a while his old time habits of paying all his bills by check ran into trouble) and I was recommending auto-pay "but of course you have to make sure you have the money in your checking account"  :)  The age-old mirroring of childhood into older age.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yay, Sutton Foster! Since Amy and Sutton worked together on Bunheads, I was waiting to get some kind of appearance from her on this show!

I love how I can never tell if Wallace Shawn is playing a nice guy or someone pretending to be a nice guy. I was hoping it would be the former but I was not at all surprised that he turned out to be just recycling jokes.

I'm glad that Midge got a job. Not only will that get her out of her parents' house all day (because good lord, who needs the passive aggressive crap like the lipstick conversation she had with her mother all day long?), but she will meet new people and experience new things. I like that her new coworkers were so friendly and welcoming.

LOVED that Imogene put her friendship with Midge ahead of seeing The Music Man. I have a feeling that her attitude was along the lines of fine, Archie can go drinking with Joel after work but being forced to socialize with Penny was a bridge too far. It's one thing for Joel and Archie to hang out on their own, but having to pretend to like Penny? Joel's parents did it but Imogene wasn't about to make the effort and betray Midge like that.

On 12/4/2017 at 10:10 PM, OtterMommy said:

I think this is the episode where Midge learns to never trust a Sicilian!

WHEN DEATH IS ON THE LINE!

[CurlyATX]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

LOVED that Imogene put her friendship with Midge ahead of seeing The Music Man. I have a feeling that her attitude was along the lines of fine, Archie can go drinking with Joel after work but being forced to socialize with Penny was a bridge too far. It's one thing for Joel and Archie to hang out on their own, but having to pretend to like Penny? Joel's parents did it but Imogene wasn't about to make the effort and betray Midge like that.

Me too!  Ok, this is super far fetched but I remember watching this delicious Lifetime movie with Meredith Baxter about a women whose husband cheats on her, divorces her and then marries the new women and everyone around them clings to the new couple.  It was really heartbreaking to see all the "first wives" supporting and socializing with the new wife.  Now I'm sure there are lots of dynamics involved, but I think about that in my own life.  Would my friends just have an "insert new Curly here" mentality or would they say no.

What I really liked about Imogene is that she didn't force Archie to alienate Joel (which would be hard professionally).  What does Joel tell the son about Penny? How would that have been explained back then?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, CurlyATX said:

What does Joel tell the son about Penny? How would that have been explained back then?

I’m guessing Joel gave Ethan the old “this is daddy’s friend” explanation! 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 1/10/2018 at 10:02 AM, aradia22 said:

I agree. I get why they did it for the show but ultimately, unless they make some changes, the way she neglects her kids only makes her look bad. Lorelai was flighty and wasn't the best parent but you never doubted how much she cared about Rory.

I think they're working it in. They showed her cuddling the baby while circling the ad in the paper.  

[AllAboutMBTV]

About 20 minutes into this episode I thought, Why haven't I laughed yet? The first four episodes were pretty hilarious (largely thanks to Susie). Then I had a rushing flashback to the days when Gilmore Girls was first airing. The same thing would happen -- a couple of funny episodes and then one that, while not without humor, just kind of laid there. And it would invariably turn out that Daniel Palladino had written it. Same with "Doink." Could I write an episode of Mrs. Maisel? I could not. But Daniel's writing doesn't -- then or now -- have the same snap that Amy's does. (I'd like to see her version of Midge and Susie's breakup scene.) I did guffaw when Caroline Aaron returned to the table at the dinner with Penny and just said "NO" but that was down to Aaron's delivery.

Still, I did enjoy Abe quizzing Midge about working and the recreations of B. Altman's and the Stage Deli. And either Amy or Daniel can write out Joel ASAP.

[Guest]

I really enjoyed seeing Midge struggle this episode. Not because I don’t like her, but because I do and I think a more well-rounded character is more intriguing to watch. She has a knack for comedy but it’s still something she has to work on. It would be unrealistic if she just had the golden touch on everything. 

I do wish she would be a little more hands on with her kids though. That’s a lot to dump on your mom without even asking first.

[Inquisitionist]

On 12/5/2017 at 12:10 AM, OtterMommy said:

It was painful to watch, but I'm glad that Midge bombed at the Gaslight (twice!)  

 

On 12/30/2017 at 10:55 AM, tennisgurl said:

I actually liked seeing Midge bomb for the first time here.

 

On 6/26/2018 at 7:07 AM, deaja said:

I really enjoyed seeing Midge struggle this episode.

I might have enjoyed it if the set-up was at all believable.  Not only is it ridiculous for Midge to think she can just wing it while NOT drunk, but then she doesn’t even look at Herb’s note cards before taking them on stage? This was so egregiously preposterous writing that I had to FFwd through her second “act.” And WTH is Susie doing to help Midge hone her craft? Taking her to other clubs and buying her some records is just a start. Surely Susie is savvy enough to know she has to vet Midge’s material and help her shape it. Oy vey. I almost gave up on the series after this episode.

[Scarlett45]

On 11/30/2017 at 8:53 AM, MorganSte said:

My Aunt Jean was divorced around the same time as Midge, and when she went back to work, my cousins were mostly watched by the neighbor lady or grandma.  My aunt said that was just how it was done then.  You were sort of expected to go out so you could find a new husband.  OR you had to work long hours and only got home after the kids were in bed.

Yes, in this era (across many cultural milieus in the USA), there was much less focus on the nuclear family compared to the extended family. If a woman worked because she had to support herself (single mom) or her income was needed along with her husbands, it was understood extended family or a neighborhood friend would care for and discipline the children. Being able to stay home with your children exclusively was a luxury for women if a certain social class, there weren’t commercial day cares like there are now but neighborhood women may have charged a small fee (like an in home day care). 

On 12/21/2017 at 5:08 PM, morakot said:

This show reminds me so much of my grandparents who lived in New York from the late 20's. By the mid-50's, my grandmother was a sample cutter in the fashion district. I have a distant memory of her in a shop like the one Joel's father runs. The "negro girl" at the make up counter who was a model could have worked for my grandfather's model agency. He had one of the first model agencies in NYC to handle what he called "sepia ladies" and, by the 50's, was putting his models on the cover of Ebony. In the early 50's, my mother was one of his models. 

That’s so neat!

Edited October 16, 2018 by Scarlett45

[CousinAmy]

Midge was pretty young when she got married, and she kind of followed the roadmap for girls of that era: get the ring, get married, and start having babies. I'm sure she didn't even think about getting pregnant, or NOT getting pregnant, it just happened. So maybe she's not quite as in love with being a mother as she "should" be. Certainly running all over town going to nightclubs is more exciting than the drudgery of being a hands-on parent. In another decade or two she would be me, who never wanted to have chikdren and, with the aid of modern science, didn't have to. It's just a little early for anyone to verbalize that not every woman wants to be a mother.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, CousinAmy said:

It's just a little early for anyone to verbalize that not every woman wants to be a mother.

Or should be a mother. Or father, for that matter.

[AuntieMame]

6 hours ago, CousinAmy said:

Midge was pretty young when she got married, and she kind of followed the roadmap for girls of that era: get the ring, get married, and start having babies. I'm sure she didn't even think about getting pregnant, or NOT getting pregnant, it just happened. So maybe she's not quite as in love with being a mother as she "should" be. Certainly running all over town going to nightclubs is more exciting than the drudgery of being a hands-on parent. In another decade or two she would be me, who never wanted to have chikdren and, with the aid of modern science, didn't have to. It's just a little early for anyone to verbalize that not every woman wants to be a mother.

I was very young when they had my son. I never even got to think about whether i wanted children in an adult way. I don't think I'm alone in this experience. Even without the experience of having a child young, it is very much assumed that women will have children at some point. Pressure is out on childless women too. some of it subtle, some not so much. I think many women went after the things family and society told them were rewards (marriage, children) without realizing that these things even could be areas of choice.