S12.E20: Reunion Part 1

[KungFuBunny]

The ladies reunite; Lydia is taken to task for her outspoken opinions and actions; Vicki provides an update on her relationship with Steve; Kelly and Shannon open up about the state of their marriages.

[tinaw]

Oh goody. I'm glad Lydiot has to answer for herself. I hope Peggy does too

[chenoa333]

And as usual, Tamra never has to answer to anyone for her shady, back stabbing behavior. But I'll be watching anyway!

[KungFuBunny]

[SCS]

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

 

Yikes, Lydia is locked 'n loaded. I find her intelligent and she's able to make her points effectively but I cannot stand that she never quite lets anyone finish their comment before she interrupts (often with a non sequiter) and starts talking over the original speaker. And she doesn't look well -- just very thin.

[PhilMarlowe2]

I have not liked Lydia this season (for the most part), but I have to say Meghan is not coming off well in going after her, and I kind of feel like Lydia is sticking up well for herself in this clip.

[yourmomiseasy]

I don't like how Lydia has constantly gone out of her way to paint Shannon as crazy, but I've got to respect how in that clip she's just like "yep, that's how I feel."

[HunterHunted]

36 minutes ago, SCS said:

Yikes, Lydia is locked 'n loaded. I find her intelligent and she's able to make her points effectively but I cannot stand that she never quite lets anyone finish their comment before she interrupts (often with a non sequiter) and starts talking over the original speaker. And she doesn't look well -- just very thin.

I don't find Lydia to be particularly intelligent, but she surely is condescending, manipulative, judgmental, and sanctimonious. You're also right about Lydia being an interrupting cow. She's an extremely manipulative speaker. She knows that decently mannered people will stop speaking when someone else...MOO!...starts. She interrupts to control the...MOO!..conversation. She then starts throwing out antagonistic rhetorical questions to put her opponent on the defensive and get the opponent to answer her questions rather than...MOO!...elucidate his or her point of view. It sounds like I think this is intentional, but I don't. I think this is a habit she's developed after growing...MOO!...up with brothers, her hippy-dippy mother, and grandfather who was prone to grandiosity. This is what allowed her to be...MOO!...heard.

Edited November 16, 2017 by HunterHunted

[WireWrap]

8 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I don't like how Lydia has constantly gone out of her way to paint Shannon as crazy, but I've got to respect how in that clip she's just like "yep, that's how I feel."

Yes, she does say that but then she doesn't allow Meghan or Shannon to have their opinions. It seems that only Lydia is allowed to be judgmental. LOL

[KungFuBunny]

3 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't find Lydia to be particularly intelligent, but she surely is condescending, manipulative, judgmental, and sanctimonious. You're also right about Lydia being an interrupting cow. She's an extremely manipulative speaker. She knows that decently mannered people will stop speaking when someone else...MOO!...starts. She interrupts to control the...MOO!..conversation. She then starts throwing out antagonistic rhetorical questions to put her opponent on the defensive and get the opponent to answer her questions rather than...MOO!...elucidate his or her point of view. It sounds like I think this is intentional, but I don't. I think this is a habit she's developed after growing...MOO!...up with brothers, her hippy-dippy mother, and grandfather who was prone to grandiosity.

[AttackTurtle]

god I hate Lydia.

[lunastartron]

Meghan comes across as uncharacteristically stupid in that clip. How did Lydia fail to "treat the psychic" and/or any drag queens "equally"? It's a very illogical paradigm that equates expressing uncertainty but still participating with a polite and cordial disposition to bigotry. 

"How about just doing the right thing?" is also a very strange question since the "right thing" is not a concept that occurs in a vacuum but is informed by lots of things, including (in the broad-scope and societal sense) the influence of religion. 

Yes, Lydia's interpretation of Shannon's frequent histrionics are "pretty judgmental" because any opinion by definition encompasses judgment. Throwing a plate in a public restaurant meets the colloquial threshold for "crazy" just as Vicki, to Meghan/Shannon/the majority of the audience, qualifies as a "fucking liar." 

Edited November 17, 2017 by lunastartron

[Hockey Addict]

Ok, not a fan of Sparkle Pony but Meghan's bible comment turned me off. Okay Meghan, so what if Lydia had told you to use your brain and not let a psychic tell you what to think? Hmmmm. 

[lunastartron]

Lydia should have just declared to Meghan that the reason she doesn't want to be around psychics is because they speak to demons (TM Gina Liano during the best argument that has ever occurred on this franchise at large). 

[IKnowRight]

11 hours ago, lunastartron said:

Meghan comes across as uncharacteristically stupid in that clip. How did Lydia fail to "treat the psychic" and/or any drag queens "equally"? It's a very illogical paradigm that equates expressing uncertainty but still participating with a polite and cordial disposition to bigotry. 

"How about just doing the right thing?" is also a very strange question since the "right thing" is not a concept that occurs in a vacuum but is informed by lots of things, including (in the broad-scope and societal sense) the influence of religion. 

Yes, Lydia's interpretation of Shannon's frequent histrionics are "pretty judgmental" because any opinion by definition encompasses judgment. Throwing a plate in a public restaurant meets the colloquial threshold for "crazy" just as Vicki, to Meghan/Shannon/the majority of the audience, qualifies as a "fucking liar." 

I agree with regards to Meghan, she didn't handle this discussion very well.  Meghan was likely embarrassed that Lydia wasn't buying what her friend was selling and perhaps feels responsible for any negative publicity for her buddy on national TV.  She probably encouraged her friends to help promote them but instead got some unexpected push back and felt bad about it.

 

Lydia and Peggy have every right to their opinion and feelings, to not want to acknowledge/participate in any activities they feel interfere with the word of God.  Lydia did engage in pleasantries with Meghan's friend and should have no regrets about taking a stand based on her religious convictions.  I do see why Meghan sees it as hurting her intuitive friend's feelings, or the psychic friend's reputation but Lydia wasn't rude in that instance.  There's nothing wrong with not being comfortable about certain people or activities, it's her right.  I'm also surprised because I think Meghan went to a Catholic school outside of St. Louis like her sister the soccer player attended, she should get it.  

 

Typically, in real life, Lydia just would have declined such invitations but in this case, they are on a reality show and you can't say no often if you want to keep your orange.  Of course, this means Lydia is going to be asked questions and that's where the challenge begins with those who disagree.  People have a right to their principles but it's going to clash with this format, having talking heads where you have to explain your positions, popular ones or not...

 

Where I think Lydia loses people is that she often contradicts conventional Christian standards.  For example, calling someone out for being crazy and pushing people away instead of helping them out.  She has been outright mean spirited with her approach towards handling Shannon with the exception of the first scene of trying to help her at the Quiet Woman.  (I already have seen this behavior with the way she let her friend Alexis hang out to dry and delivered her to a raging Tamra in her last season) People that I know that host prayer groups or claim to bring people together, keep their negative thoughts to themselves and don't ramp up agitated people.  They tend to be helpful and deescalate not contribute to arguments in public.  Not to mention the constant talk of balls/insistence on a vasectomy only to push for a designer baby the minute Doug's been clipped!  But...she's on a reality show, she's also stirring the pot, interrupting, so she thinks it's game on!

15 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

I have not liked Lydia this season (for the most part), but I have to say Meghan is not coming off well in going after her, and I kind of feel like Lydia is sticking up well for herself in this clip.

I do like how she inadvertently made Kelly laugh, that part was funny.  

Edited November 17, 2017 by IKnowRight

[eclectcmoi]

Oh my gosh!  I just learned from the posted clip that Peggy is from Armenia!  Shocker! 

Though I didn't care for Meghan's message I did like her not getting ruffled with Lydia's interrupting and trying to escalate the tone of the discussion.  And is it just me or is Meghan's hair blonder? It looks like a flat one color blonde now that looks lifeless like a wig.  

[zoeysmom]

20 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

I have not liked Lydia this season (for the most part), but I have to say Meghan is not coming off well in going after her, and I kind of feel like Lydia is sticking up well for herself in this clip.

Pretty much since she interrupted and did not let Meghan finish her thought.  I believe all Meghan was trying to say was that as her friend and guest in her home she could zip it.  The woman wasn't exactly Allison DuBois -predicting the end of people's marriage and making death predictions.  I thought Lydia lost huge points with her saying she was okay with calling Shannon "Mayor of Crazy Town" and her various other insults directed at Shannon.  Whether she said them to her face or not it is not a friendship builder.  Then she turned around and blamed Shannon for not wanting to hang out with her.*  Lydia doesn't seem to have any problems with her mother's unusual view of life.  It is okay for her mother to say someone has a bright light and then turn around and claim the person is a lost soul.  Seems she would be use to new age behavior by now.  

I got the impression all season Lydia wanted to be the producer director.   Her parties, her new friend, friendship whisperer, the stupid magazine-all Lydia all the time. The fuss she made over not being invited to some dinner (by producers) was a pretty clear indication to me she finds people quite fungible.  And of course claiming they befriended the guy because he had a nice yacht.  Spoke volumes to me that she is a phony little user.

I hope somebody has the courage to basically tell Lydia she is just not all that likable and there is no upside to her friendship.

* I believe one of the hanging out things Lydia wanted from Shannon was probably a launch party appearance for the stupid magazine.  I think only Kelly showed up.

[la patineuse]

6 hours ago, IKnowRight said:

I agree with regards to Meghan, she didn't handle this discussion very well.  Meghan was likely embarrassed that Lydia wasn't buying what her friend was selling and perhaps feels responsible for any negative publicity for her buddy on national TV.  She probably encouraged her friends to help promote them but instead got some unexpected push back and felt bad about it.

 

Lydia and Peggy have every right to their opinion and feelings, to not want to acknowledge/participate in any activities they feel interfere with the word of God.  Lydia did engage in pleasantries with Meghan's friend and should have no regrets about taking a stand based on her religious convictions.  I do see why Meghan sees it as hurting her intuitive friend's feelings, or the psychic friend's reputation but Lydia wasn't rude in that instance.  There's nothing wrong with not being comfortable about certain people or activities, it's her right.  I'm also surprised because I think Meghan went to a Catholic school outside of St. Louis like her sister the soccer player attended, she should get it.  

 

Typically, in real life, Lydia just would have declined such invitations but in this case, they are on a reality show and you can't say no often if you want to keep your orange.  Of course, this means Lydia is going to be asked questions and that's where the challenge begins with those who disagree.  People have a right to their principles but it's going to clash with this format, having talking heads where you have to explain your positions, popular ones or not...

 

Where I think Lydia loses people is that she often contradicts conventional Christian standards.  For example, calling someone out for being crazy and pushing people away instead of helping them out.  She has been outright mean spirited with her approach towards handling Shannon with the exception of the first scene of trying to help her at the Quiet Woman.  (I already have seen this behavior with the way she let her friend Alexis hang out to dry and delivered her to a raging Tamra in her last season) People that I know that host prayer groups or claim to bring people together, keep their negative thoughts to themselves and don't ramp up agitated people.  They tend to be helpful and deescalate not contribute to arguments in public.  Not to mention the constant talk of balls/insistence on a vasectomy only to push for a designer baby the minute Doug's been clipped!  But...she's on a reality show, she's also stirring the pot, interrupting, so she thinks it's game on!

I do like how she inadvertently made Kelly laugh, that part was funny.  

I agree that both Lydia and Peggy have the right to voice their opinions when they feel uncomfortable about participating in some of the activities on the show that are in conflict with their values and faith (in contrast to Tamra and Vicky who profess to be Christians, but still consult with psychics).  However, they aren't as consistent in their Christian values in other parts of their lives---namely how they treat other people.  And for all of Lydia's distaste of Kelly's boob party, that didn't stop Lydia from conceiving and hosting Doug's tacky 'balls voyage' party.

[IKnowRight]

21 minutes ago, la patineuse said:

I agree that both Lydia and Peggy have the right to voice their opinions when they feel uncomfortable about participating in some of the activities on the show that are in conflict with their values and faith (in contrast to Tamra and Vicky who profess to be Christians, but still consult with psychics).  However, they aren't as consistent in their Christian values in other parts of their lives---namely how they treat other people.  And for all of Lydia's distaste of Kelly's boob party, that didn't stop Lydia from conceiving and hosting Doug's tacky 'balls voyage' party.

Absolutely agree!  Spot on!

[KungFuBunny]

[Duke2801]

23 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

And HELLO to my new nightmare. ?

[Natalie68]

2 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

And HELLO to my new nightmare. ?

This reminds me of that new stuffed toy that looks all innocent until you squeeze it and then the fangs and buggy eyes pop out.  

https://www.vat19.com/item/feisty-pets

[SweetieDarling]

On 11/16/2017 at 6:21 PM, WireWrap said:

Yes, she does say that but then she doesn't allow Meghan or Shannon to have their opinions. It seems that only Lydia is allowed to be judgmental. LOL

THIS!!  Just like in Iceland when Peggy finally came out of her room and was explaining her side to Lydia.  Lydia tried to get her to put her issue aside and see the other ladies' point of view. She did not validate (what was the term she used?) Peggy's hurt feelings, just like she got mad at I forget who earlier this season because she felt HER feelings weren't being validated (or whatever psychobabble term she used).

[WireWrap]

6 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

THIS!!  Just like in Iceland when Peggy finally came out of her room and was explaining her side to Lydia.  Lydia tried to get her to put her issue aside and see the other ladies' point of view. She did not validate (what was the term she used?) Peggy's hurt feelings, just like she got mad at I forget who earlier this season because she felt HER feelings weren't being validated (or whatever psychobabble term she used).

She also did this to Shannon right out the gate! Everyone is to listen to her (Lydia), follow her advice but never have their own opinion about anything, even if it is about things Lydia knows nothing about to begin with. AND, they must put her feelings/opinions before everyone else's because, well, she is the "friendship whisperer" after all. LOL

[SweetieDarling]

6 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

She also did this to Shannon right out the gate! Everyone is to listen to her (Lydia), follow her advice but never have their own opinion about anything, even if it is about things Lydia knows nothing about to begin with. AND, they must put her feelings/opinions before everyone else's because, well, she is the "friendship whisperer" after all. LOL

HA! I wonder how she would get along with NJ's Siggy Flicker?  

[lunastartron]

12 hours ago, IKnowRight said:

I agree with regards to Meghan, she didn't handle this discussion very well.  Meghan was likely embarrassed that Lydia wasn't buying what her friend was selling and perhaps feels responsible for any negative publicity for her buddy on national TV.  She probably encouraged her friends to help promote them but instead got some unexpected push back and felt bad about it.

 

Lydia and Peggy have every right to their opinion and feelings, to not want to acknowledge/participate in any activities they feel interfere with the word of God.  Lydia did engage in pleasantries with Meghan's friend and should have no regrets about taking a stand based on her religious convictions.  I do see why Meghan sees it as hurting her intuitive friend's feelings, or the psychic friend's reputation but Lydia wasn't rude in that instance.  There's nothing wrong with not being comfortable about certain people or activities, it's her right.  I'm also surprised because I think Meghan went to a Catholic school outside of St. Louis like her sister the soccer player attended, she should get it.  

 

Typically, in real life, Lydia just would have declined such invitations but in this case, they are on a reality show and you can't say no often if you want to keep your orange.  Of course, this means Lydia is going to be asked questions and that's where the challenge begins with those who disagree.  People have a right to their principles but it's going to clash with this format, having talking heads where you have to explain your positions, popular ones or not...

 

Where I think Lydia loses people is that she often contradicts conventional Christian standards.  For example, calling someone out for being crazy and pushing people away instead of helping them out.  She has been outright mean spirited with her approach towards handling Shannon with the exception of the first scene of trying to help her at the Quiet Woman.  (I already have seen this behavior with the way she let her friend Alexis hang out to dry and delivered her to a raging Tamra in her last season) People that I know that host prayer groups or claim to bring people together, keep their negative thoughts to themselves and don't ramp up agitated people.  They tend to be helpful and deescalate not contribute to arguments in public.  Not to mention the constant talk of balls/insistence on a vasectomy only to push for a designer baby the minute Doug's been clipped!  But...she's on a reality show, she's also stirring the pot, interrupting, so she thinks it's game on!

I do like how she inadvertently made Kelly laugh, that part was funny.  

It's curious that none of the women have pointed this out. Because the (moronic IMO) argument that Meghan is advancing doesn't even touch upon this contradiction/tension, a discussion on which would be actually very interesting insofar as encompassing questions like "does fidelity to Christian principles require Lydia to keep challenging or negative opinions to oneself?"* Instead, Meghan is incoherently criticizing behavior (not treating the psychic and/or drag queens "equally") that never actually happened. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by lunastartron

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, lunastartron said:

It's curious that none of the women have pointed this out. Because the (moronic IMO) argument that Meghan is advancing doesn't even touch upon this contradiction/tension, a discussion on which would be actually very interesting insofar as encompassing questions like "does fidelity to Christian principles require Lydia to keep challenging or negative opinions to oneself?" Instead, Meghan is incoherently criticizing behavior (not treating the psychic and/or drag queens "equally") that never actually happened. 

Well, lets hope Meghan does address this on the reunion. We all know how Bravo loves to leave the important stuff out of their teasers. LOL

[goofygirl]

MOO! MOOO!  Lydiot you freaking heifer! MOO!!

Love it!!

[diadochokinesis]

5 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Ugh, Vicki drives me nuts with her judgmental face.  I want to whack her with a Nerf bat.

[nexxie]

Lydia acts like a self-righteous asshole, even when she’s “praying.”

[PhilMarlowe2]

9 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Pretty much since she interrupted and did not let Meghan finish her thought.  I believe all Meghan was trying to say was that as her friend and guest in her home she could zip it. 

Zip what? What exactly did Lydia do in Meghan's home that was rude? This is why I think Meghan comes off badly in this clip - she is sitting there saying things like, "Do the right thing!" How exactly did Lydia fail to do the right thing? She was perfectly nice to the psychic, and she didn't say one bad word about psychics in general. Lydia was fully "zipped." Short of changing her beliefs for Meghan's benefit, what did Lydia not do right here? Personally, I don't mind Lydia interrupting Meghan because, in the words of Vicki, "Shut up, Meghan."

[PhilMarlowe2]

4 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

Ugh, Vicki drives me nuts with her judgmental face.  I want to whack her with a Nerf bat.

Vicki has a right to feel judgmental when Shannon is claiming that her comments about blaming Vicki for her weight gain were "taken out of context." Shannon said it several times with full context shown. This clips makes me angry because, yes, it was bitchy of Vicki to spill that tea to Kelly, but it was Kelly who brought it up on camera months later after everyone was getting along, and the reason why Kelly did so was because Shannon and Tamra were behaving horribly toward her. It's like, Shannon has zero problem holding Vicki responsible for her weight gain (which is ridiculous) but never once thinks to question her own role in the clusterfuck situation. Maybe if you hadn't been piling on Kelly on the bus, then none of this would have come out on national TV.

[diadochokinesis]

4 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Vicki has a right to feel judgmental when Shannon is claiming that her comments about blaming Vicki for her weight gain were "taken out of context." Shannon said it several times with full context shown. This clips makes me angry because, yes, it was bitchy of Vicki to spill that tea to Kelly, but it was Kelly who brought it up on camera months later after everyone was getting along, and the reason why Kelly did so was because Shannon and Tamra were behaving horribly toward her. It's like, Shannon has zero problem holding Vicki responsible for her weight gain (which is ridiculous) but never once thinks to question her own role in the clusterfuck situation. Maybe if you hadn't been piling on Kelly on the bus, then none of this would have come out on national TV.

In my opinion, Shannon was taking ownership.  She said she was unhappy and she was taking it out on everybody.  She apologized to those she went off on.  Instead of listening to her, Vicki had her judgmental face on.  She could have even just tried for a neutral, blank expression but nope, she had to full on judgmental.  I don't think Vicki really has the right to be judgmental of anybody in that crew considering everything she has done. 

[zoeysmom]

8 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Vicki has a right to feel judgmental when Shannon is claiming that her comments about blaming Vicki for her weight gain were "taken out of context." Shannon said it several times with full context shown. This clips makes me angry because, yes, it was bitchy of Vicki to spill that tea to Kelly, but it was Kelly who brought it up on camera months later after everyone was getting along, and the reason why Kelly did so was because Shannon and Tamra were behaving horribly toward her. It's like, Shannon has zero problem holding Vicki responsible for her weight gain (which is ridiculous) but never once thinks to question her own role in the clusterfuck situation. Maybe if you hadn't been piling on Kelly on the bus, then none of this would have come out on national TV.

Shannon has explained her rational for what got her started on the weight gain-she was stressed over the comments Vicki put out there about David beating the shit out of Shannon.  Last season before Ireland Vicki mentioned Shannon lies, and she has the proof and has locked it away in a little box.  Vicki then again threatened Shannon with revealing their secret at Meghan's candle party and Shannon clearly had no idea what she was talking about. Vicki  was the one with the information and she started the ball rolling because she was angry at Tamra, Shannon and Heather for not forgiving her and even more shockingly not being there for her when Brooks dumped her.  

To me it is like someone saying I have a very stressful job with a miserable boss and I overate and gained weight.  One is not blaming the job/boss per se they are explaining what they were dealing with when the weight gain occurred.  I personally believe David probably expressed a lot of initial displeasure with this coming out, Shannon obsessed about it and David eventually just became fed up with it and withdrew his affection from Shannon.

I would like to be clear once again. I am the only one responsible for gaining 40 pounds. I am the only one who let ridiculous people and words get under my skin. I am the only one that said, “F*** it” and ate and drank whatever I wanted. I’m still kicking myself for some of the choices I made, but everything happens for a reason. Through the difficult process, I am learning again that I am a strong person that can accomplish any goals I set if I work hard and am committed.

As far as revisionist history-Vicki was having fun with the others in Ireland she ditched Kelly to go have drinks with the others after they had wrapped filming in Ireland.  What caused Kelly's ire was when Tamra texted her a photo with she and Vicki arm in arm drinking after she had been intentionally excluded by Vicki.  Vicki was back in with Heather, Shannon and Tamra and no longer had any use for Kelly.  Again in Ireland, Kelly was asked repeated by the others to stop the face flicking and she would not, then she told Tamra to leave, made some crack about Heather being Jewish and should have a better sense of humor.  The irony was Kelly made a big deal about Shannon trying to make her drink at dinner and then became enraged when the others didn't invite her out drinking.  So I guess it wasn't all that important that Kelly not drink.  Had Kelly not been such a bitch to the others and then finally turned on Vicki, to try and get out of the hole she had dug for herself, it would have been just another case of Vicki talking behind the others' back when she felt she was being treated without proper deference.  

I don't believe Kelly should have even alleged she was being piled on-she had deeply offended Shannon and Heather before the trip.  And with Kelly the hits kept on coming in Ireland.  She went out of her way to attack Tamra about the relationship with her child.  She was friends with Meghan and Meghan stood by her even when she was dishing out insults on the bus to Shannon about facial hair.  The other gossip Kelly promulgated was Heather and Terry were broke and claimed she knew the broker that got them the loan-it was simply untrue.  At some point when Michael and Kelly were strategizing  Kelly's return to the group Michael opined she would have a better chance with Shannon than Tamra.  Maybe it was because at the Reunion, Kelly said she understood what happened the night Vicki claimed Shannon was beaten by David.  

I believe Shannon needs to take responsibility for constantly raising her voice, just as Vicki needs to take responsibility she and Brooks were the ones to originally go after Shannon and David, Tamra needs to take responsibility for her constant need to hear the other women's confidences and then use the same against them, Lydia needs to take responsibility she is basically a little troll and Peggy needs to take ownership of the fact she is intentionally misleading and basically dishonest under the guise of being confused or ailing.  Bottom line with all these women is they know they are being filmed and dealing with relative strangers (initially) they also are aware there is a certain amount of drama that is expected.  If they choose to start a rumor or further one publicly it is totally on that person.  

[sarivon]

On 11/16/2017 at 5:20 PM, HunterHunted said:

I don't find Lydia to be particularly intelligent, but she surely is condescending, manipulative, judgmental, and sanctimonious. You're also right about Lydia being an interrupting cow. She's an extremely manipulative speaker. She knows that decently mannered people will stop speaking when someone else...MOO!...starts. She interrupts to control the...MOO!..conversation. She then starts throwing out antagonistic rhetorical questions to put her opponent on the defensive and get the opponent to answer her questions rather than...MOO!...elucidate his or her point of view. It sounds like I think this is intentional, but I don't. I think this is a habit she's developed after growing...MOO!...up with brothers, her hippy-dippy mother, and grandfather who was prone to grandiosity. This is what allowed her to be...MOO!...heard.

What does all this mean?

17 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

Ugh, Vicki drives me nuts with her judgmental face.  I want to whack her with a Nerf bat.

Her face is in repose and pretty expressionless in the clip. I don't see judgment....?

[sarivon]

4 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Shannon has explained her rational for what got her started on the weight gain-she was stressed over the comments Vicki put out there about David beating the shit out of Shannon.  Last season before Ireland Vicki mentioned Shannon lies, and she has the proof and has locked it away in a little box.  Vicki then again threatened Shannon with revealing their secret at Meghan's candle party and Shannon clearly had no idea what she was talking about. Vicki  was the one with the information and she started the ball rolling because she was angry at Tamra, Shannon and Heather for not forgiving her and even more shockingly not being there for her when Brooks dumped her.  

To me it is like someone saying I have a very stressful job with a miserable boss and I overate and gained weight.  One is not blaming the job/boss per se they are explaining what they were dealing with when the weight gain occurred.  I personally believe David probably expressed a lot of initial displeasure with this coming out, Shannon obsessed about it and David eventually just became fed up with it and withdrew his affection from Shannon.

I would like to be clear once again. I am the only one responsible for gaining 40 pounds. I am the only one who let ridiculous people and words get under my skin. I am the only one that said, “F*** it” and ate and drank whatever I wanted. I’m still kicking myself for some of the choices I made, but everything happens for a reason. Through the difficult process, I am learning again that I am a strong person that can accomplish any goals I set if I work hard and am committed.

As far as revisionist history-Vicki was having fun with the others in Ireland she ditched Kelly to go have drinks with the others after they had wrapped filming in Ireland.  What caused Kelly's ire was when Tamra texted her a photo with she and Vicki arm in arm drinking after she had been intentionally excluded by Vicki.  Vicki was back in with Heather, Shannon and Tamra and no longer had any use for Kelly.  Again in Ireland, Kelly was asked repeated by the others to stop the face flicking and she would not, then she told Tamra to leave, made some crack about Heather being Jewish and should have a better sense of humor.  The irony was Kelly made a big deal about Shannon trying to make her drink at dinner and then became enraged when the others didn't invite her out drinking.  So I guess it wasn't all that important that Kelly not drink.  Had Kelly not been such a bitch to the others and then finally turned on Vicki, to try and get out of the hole she had dug for herself, it would have been just another case of Vicki talking behind the others' back when she felt she was being treated without proper deference.  

I don't believe Kelly should have even alleged she was being piled on-she had deeply offended Shannon and Heather before the trip.  And with Kelly the hits kept on coming in Ireland.  She went out of her way to attack Tamra about the relationship with her child.  She was friends with Meghan and Meghan stood by her even when she was dishing out insults on the bus to Shannon about facial hair.  The other gossip Kelly promulgated was Heather and Terry were broke and claimed she knew the broker that got them the loan-it was simply untrue.  At some point when Michael and Kelly were strategizing  Kelly's return to the group Michael opined she would have a better chance with Shannon than Tamra.  Maybe it was because at the Reunion, Kelly said she understood what happened the night Vicki claimed Shannon was beaten by David.  

I believe Shannon needs to take responsibility for constantly raising her voice, just as Vicki needs to take responsibility she and Brooks were the ones to originally go after Shannon and David, Tamra needs to take responsibility for her constant need to hear the other women's confidences and then use the same against them, Lydia needs to take responsibility she is basically a little troll and Peggy needs to take ownership of the fact she is intentionally misleading and basically dishonest under the guise of being confused or ailing.  Bottom line with all these women is they know they are being filmed and dealing with relative strangers (initially) they also are aware there is a certain amount of drama that is expected.  If they choose to start a rumor or further one publicly it is totally on that person.  

Sorry I just read your whole post and must conclude the only revisionism is your whole post but I know its also your opinion. Shannon turned herserlf into a butterball because she guzzled vodka and shoved too many carbs down her throat. Strong proud confident women who call themselves strong proud confident women don't blame others for bad decisions. I don't mind Shannon but she's a coward.

[HunterHunted]

On 11/16/2017 at 5:20 PM, HunterHunted said:

I don't find Lydia to be particularly intelligent, but she surely is condescending, manipulative, judgmental, and sanctimonious. You're also right about Lydia being an interrupting cow. She's an extremely manipulative speaker. She knows that decently mannered people will stop speaking when someone else...MOO!...starts. She interrupts to control the...MOO!..conversation. She then starts throwing out antagonistic rhetorical questions to put her opponent on the defensive and get the opponent to answer her questions rather than...MOO!...elucidate his or her point of view. It sounds like I think this is intentional, but I don't. I think this is a habit she's developed after growing...MOO!...up with brothers, her hippy-dippy mother, and grandfather who was prone to grandiosity. This is what allowed her to be...MOO!...heard.

26 minutes ago, sarivon said:

What does all this mean?

I've bolded and italicized "interrupting cow" in my original comment. My comment is a play on the interrupting cow joke.

[lunastartron]

Like Peggy and/or any other cast member, Shannon is responsible for articulating herself clearly. She asserted many times that Vicki was responsible for her weight gain and gut. Full stop, sans qualification. And she said on her last WWHL appearance that she never blamed Vicki at all. 

The clarification/fuller exposition/"what I really meant but didn't actually say" has only cropped after the season began airing. 

If Shannon wants to take ownership of her mistakes and transgressions, she should probably begin with attacking her husband during an alcohol-induced blackout and putting that attack on shout by screaming into a telephone as she attempted to break down a door. 

I gave Shannon a pass when she got all indignant about Tamra sharing information about the Beador marriage that Shannon herself had presented on camera but Shannon was well aware after that entire imbroglio about how personal details can be weaponized once they're disseminated.

[ITALIA]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 2:48 PM, SCS said:

Yikes, Lydia is locked 'n loaded. I find her intelligent and she's able to make her points effectively but I cannot stand that she never quite lets anyone finish their comment before she interrupts (often with a non sequiter) and starts talking over the original speaker. And she doesn't look well -- just very thin.

Lydiot intelligent? LOL! Her IQ is probably double digits.

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 6:20 PM, AttackTurtle said:

god I hate Lydia.

She and her husband are total zeros.

[SCS]

1 hour ago, ITALIA said:

Lydiot intelligent? LOL! Her IQ is probably double digits.

 

 

LOL! She's probably not alone!

[Jextella]

On 11/17/2017 at 4:55 PM, KungFuBunny said:

 

My memory is off.  Can anyone tell me what it was that Shannon says Vicki did with regards to David?   What I'm  recalling is that Shannon called VIcki during an argument with David.  Vicki told Kelly and Kelly is the one who brought it up on the show.  Is that correct?

Edited November 19, 2017 by Jextella

[WireWrap]

18 minutes ago, Jextella said:

My memory is off.  Can anyone tell me what it was that Shannon says Vicki did with regards to David?   What I'm  recalling is that Shannon called VIcki during an argument with David.  Vicki told Kelly and Kelly is the one who brought it up on the show.  Is that correct?

Yes. Shannon called Vicki while she/David were fighting and Vicki embellished the story into David "beating" Shannon (a lie), then she told Kelly that lie and then made Kelly believe that Shannon, Heather and Tamra were trying to set Kelly up. So, yes, Kelly did reveal the story Vicki told her but Vicki told Kelly a lie to begin with. LOL

[lunastartron]

1 hour ago, Jextella said:

My memory is off.  Can anyone tell me what it was that Shannon says Vicki did with regards to David?   What I'm  recalling is that Shannon called VIcki during an argument with David.  Vicki told Kelly and Kelly is the one who brought it up on the show.  Is that correct?

This is correct. Shannon discovered David's affair with Nicole McMackin, got drunk one evening shortly thereafter (or, as she suggested at last year's reunion, was roofied by some mysterious party who "slipped something" into however many drinks she imbibed -but she's taking accountability!) and attacked David, who retreated to Adaline's room and locked himself inside. While screaming and trying to beat down the door, Shannon telephoned Vicki, who claims that she interpreted the call as a domestic violence incident in which Shannon was the victim. Shannon maintains that she clarified what happened to Vicki soon afterward. 

Fast forward to last season, during which Vicki told Kelly off camera that "David beats the shit out of Shannon," which Kelly then repeated on the bus ride in Ireland. 

At the reunion, Vicki continued to suggest that David physically intimidated women with such poor examples as the argument that she initiated with David at the '70s party. 

So Shannon says that Vicki maligned her husband as abuser on television, which in turn caused strain in the Beador marriage, David to distance himself from Shannon, and Shannon to overeat out of stress. Shannon's defense basically is that David is not an abuser because she, Shannon, was the abusive party during the events in question. Which makes her teary "oh, so it's all my fault?!?!" defensiveness when David calmly explained why he had been pulling away all the richer. Yes, when you attack your spouse and put it on shout for a coworker to hear, it is indeed largely your fault.

Edited November 19, 2017 by lunastartron

[PhilMarlowe2]

Not to mention that Shannon had already started gaining weight last season prior to the Ireland trip. She had already paid a visit to her "Oh, wow" trainer long before Kelly dropped that bomb. And yet somehow Vicki was the the thing that got the ball rolling.

[diadochokinesis]

35 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Not to mention that Shannon had already started gaining weight last season prior to the Ireland trip. She had already paid a visit to her "Oh, wow" trainer long before Kelly dropped that bomb. And yet somehow Vicki was the the thing that got the ball rolling.

Obvious speculation but I'm wondering if Shannon was also blaming Vicki because that was easier than really examining why she was gaining weight.  I see it happen a lot with my patients when they feel like their life is spiraling out of control and/or they aren't happy.  They latch onto the "easy" excuse (emotionally easier, that is) and run with it.  It was easier for her to blame Vicki since everyone knew those issues than it was for her to admit that her marriage was falling apart.  She hinted around towards it during that reunion clip but didn't come out and say it directly. 

Some people eat when they are stressed (whatever the stressor might be).  Other people stop eating.  Each person reacts to stress and emotionally trying times differently.  Shannon is a stress eater.  I think Vicki was causing some stress in her life and was just the easiest person/thing to blame rather than really examine her marriage and admit to herself that it was done. 

[Hockey Addict]

Ok, I was irritated today after reading some of Gretchen's tweets and even if I am not a Slade/Gretch fan I tweeted Kelly amd basically told her to worry about herself and her designer baby.

Wonder if the judge watched rhoc abd if that will influence kdudds alimony?

[Jextella]

2 hours ago, lunastartron said:

This is correct. Shannon discovered David's affair with Nicole McMackin, got drunk one evening shortly thereafter (or, as she suggested at last year's reunion, was roofied by some mysterious party who "slipped something" into however many drinks she imbibed -but she's taking accountability!) and attacked David, who retreated to Adaline's room and locked himself inside. While screaming and trying to beat down the door, Shannon telephoned Vicki, who claims that she interpreted the call as a domestic violence incident in which Shannon was the victim. Shannon maintains that she clarified what happened to Vicki soon afterward. 

Fast forward to last season, during which Vicki told Kelly off camera that "David beats the shit out of Shannon," which Kelly then repeated on the bus ride in Ireland. 

At the reunion, Vicki continued to suggest that David physically intimidated women with such poor examples as the argument that she initiated with David at the '70s party. 

So Shannon says that Vicki maligned her husband as abuser on television, which in turn caused strain in the Beador marriage, David to distance himself from Shannon, and Shannon to overeat out of stress. Shannon's defense basically is that David is not an abuser because she, Shannon, was the abusive party during the events in question. Which makes her teary "oh, so it's all my fault?!?!" defensiveness when David calmly explained why he had been pulling away all the richer. Yes, when you attack your spouse and put it on shout for a coworker to hear, it is indeed largely your fault.

Thank you, Luna!  This is sort of what I thought was the chain of events.  

1 hour ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Not to mention that Shannon had already started gaining weight last season prior to the Ireland trip. She had already paid a visit to her "Oh, wow" trainer long before Kelly dropped that bomb. And yet somehow Vicki was the the thing that got the ball rolling.

Good point!

1 hour ago, diadochokinesis said:

Obvious speculation but I'm wondering if Shannon was also blaming Vicki because that was easier than really examining why she was gaining weight.  I see it happen a lot with my patients when they feel like their life is spiraling out of control and/or they aren't happy.  They latch onto the "easy" excuse (emotionally easier, that is) and run with it.  It was easier for her to blame Vicki since everyone knew those issues than it was for her to admit that her marriage was falling apart.  She hinted around towards it during that reunion clip but didn't come out and say it directly. 

Some people eat when they are stressed (whatever the stressor might be).  Other people stop eating.  Each person reacts to stress and emotionally trying times differently.  Shannon is a stress eater.  I think Vicki was causing some stress in her life and was just the easiest person/thing to blame rather than really examine her marriage and admit to herself that it was done. 

Like the yoga dude said to the NYC HW's while in Mexico....you can't control what people say, but you can control your response.  I think/hope many in OC are learning that lesson. 

I find it interesting that Shannon is besties with Tamra given Tamra's constant disregard for her daughter's desire that Tamra not talk about her or post pictures of her online.   That seems like the most agregious behaviour we've seen from  all the HW's - in all the years and in all the cities.  Going after spouses is one thing, but going after kids is another.  And in Tamra's case, going after her own kid.  Tamra couldn't be more unlikeable, IMO.

I generally like Shannon, but the fact that she's bonded with someone like Tamra makes me like her less.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Jextella

[Jextella]

9 hours ago, Hockey Addict said:

Ok, I was irritated today after reading some of Gretchen's tweets and even if I am not a Slade/Gretch fan I tweeted Kelly amd basically told her to worry about herself and her designer baby.

Wonder if the judge watched rhoc abd if that will influence kdudds alimony?

Don't make me read Gretchen's tweets :).  What did she say? 

Also, I thought Meghan was the one with a designer baby - with Lydia wanting a designer baby.  What is going on with Kelly and designer babies?

Edited November 19, 2017 by Jextella

[dabmusic]

Wow, some of these stories are made up.  David did come after Shannon years ago, hence why he had to go to anger management.  Shannon did get drunk at a bar or café, She was found walking somewhere unknown and thinks she fell as she had bruises.  David found her blocks away.  The incident at the house was separate and she did call Vicki with a witness.  People were angry at Vicki for not calling 911 when Shannon told her David was hitting her.  Vicki did not tell Kelli that David beats the crap out of her, she told Kelly about the one incident.  I'm not a Vicki fan but something in my gut tells me there is truth behind these so called rumors.  I think there has been frustration, hate, feeling of being trapped and alcohol for quite sometime in that marriage.  Why isn't Shannon equally angry at Tamra and Heather for sharing the gossip the first season she was on?  Heather told her friends at lunch about Shannon.   Personally, this season has been a bust because Shannon and Tamra decided to ice Vicki out, get Kelly onboard. 

[lunastartron]

44 minutes ago, dabmusic said:

Wow, some of these stories are made up.  David did come after Shannon years ago, hence why he had to go to anger management.  Shannon did get drunk at a bar or café, She was found walking somewhere unknown and thinks she fell as she had bruises.  David found her blocks away.  The incident at the house was separate and she did call Vicki with a witness.  People were angry at Vicki for not calling 911 when Shannon told her David was hitting her.  Vicki did not tell Kelli that David beats the crap out of her, she told Kelly about the one incident.  I'm not a Vicki fan but something in my gut tells me there is truth behind these so called rumors.  I think there has been frustration, hate, feeling of being trapped and alcohol for quite sometime in that marriage.  Why isn't Shannon equally angry at Tamra and Heather for sharing the gossip the first season she was on?  Heather told her friends at lunch about Shannon.   Personally, this season has been a bust because Shannon and Tamra decided to ice Vicki out, get Kelly onboard. 

Well, yes, some details are indeed ambiguous or outright incorrect. 

Shannon is an unreliable narrator to the point of incoherence but she has maintained for the entirety of her duration on the show since coverage of the 2003 incident first broke in 2013 (even prior to the broadcast of her debut on the program) that David never made physical contact with her during that episode. Period, end of story according to Shannon. She even called commenters who asked about that history "morons" just last year for suggesting  that domestic violence in fact did occur. I personally find it difficult to believe that a wealthy white man would find himself in a position that mandated acceptance of plea deal without some form of corroborating evidence but, consistently and definitively, the only account provided regarding those events has been Shannon's ... and it is not that "David did come after Shannon"; it is that she telephoned 911 to stop a verbal argument. 

There were not two "separate" occasions vis-a-vis the second disturbance that was introduced into the narrative. It was a conintuous chain on the same night. Shannon and David had sent their daughters to stay with Shannon's mom in Nashville. Shannon and David were a night or two away from departing for Hawaii when Shannon, yes, got drunk and then, coming in and out of blackout (since she says "I can't remember what happened" regarding what transpired between the restaurant and charging into the door), later that same evening tried to beat down Adaline's bedroom door after David locked himself inside. http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-11/episode-21/videos/shannon-tells-what-really-happened

Although I find Shannon to have a propensity for retconning when it's situationally convenient in order to make herself look better, her own narrative is that she drunkenly went after David in the second episode and crazily, irresponsibly called 911 on him despite no threat of physical peril during the first. 

Vicki explained on the bus that she had shared the incident with Kelly in order to provide background on why she, Vicki, was supposedly afraid that David could have hit her, Vicki, during their argument at the '70s party. This was a patently stupid assertion because Vicki was the one invading David's space at that event. 

Kelly, on said bus ride, yelled to Shannon that Vicki had informed her "your husband beats the shit out of you." Whether that was Kelly's own articulation or a direct quote, I don't know. 

Edited November 19, 2017 by lunastartron