S07.E11: Great Again

[AmandaPanda]

Quote

Episode description to come.

Season finale!

[Spartan Girl]

"Women can't win!"

Yes. We. Can.

So I take it Ally used her new position to bring back the SCUM cult? I'm okay with that.

[SimoneS]

Great finale. I thought that Ally was overconfident and wrong to trust Beverly. The show suckered me good as well as Ally conned Kai. Brilliant set up and perfect way to make sure the he is really dead. As soon as she gave Oz the clown, I knew that she was in or leading a cult. 

I really enjoyed Cult. This and last year's reality show anthology have been my favorite seasons.

[ShadowHunter]

Evan died on AHS that is so stunning lol.  Kai deserved it but its predictable and Sarah lived another non surprise. Its my fault that is how Ryan can be but I said that would happen in the Summer before the season started lol.

This was still a better season then others though so kudos. 

Props to Evan and Adina great acting.  Kai gave me Joker vibes again. He is doing better then Jared Leto lol.

[TobinAlbers]

Ally killed four people, got off Scott free, and now is using her new political cult power base to restart SCUM - a man hating group that encourages violence and murder against men and calls them turds- and has custody of a young boy that she believes she loves even as she leads SCUM and this is a happy ending?

On one hand  Speedwagon going to the state troopers would've messed up her deal with the Feds but she didn't need to kill him; she needed to hand him over to the FBI and they would've kept him in isolation until Kai was apprehended. Speedwagon was a mole in the cult from jump and not a willing participant. Ally gave no fucks about his life which pretty much foreshadowed her turn in the final scene. The power balance has been upended except the people in charge are just as toxic, corrupt, and evil. 

Granted this was the best AHS finale in a long time and had a satisfying story wrap for the most part, but I expect/hope that as with Lana Winters name drop, in a future season we learn if Ally's been exposed. Something tells me an adult Ozy (played by Evan Peters) will be a main character in a future season.

Evan Peters was a freaking superstar this season. Hope he took a nice vacation somewhere warm to wash this role off and reboot his body and mind, LOL.

[GoneGirl]

How did Ally know that Kai was had a relationship with the African American prison guard? This bothers me....other than that I found the finale very predictable, down to Bev taking Kai out in the end. 

[Pixel]

13 minutes ago, GoneGirl said:

How did Ally know that Kai was had a relationship with the African American prison guard? This bothers me....other than that I found the finale very predictable, down to Bev taking Kai out in the end. 

I assumed the guard seeked out Ally, not the other way around. 

[mamadrama]

Can be be absolutely certain that Speedwagon was really working with the state police? I kind of thought that Ally killed him and then made up that story to tell Kai, to make him feel guilty about killing Winter. Ally wasn't exactly a reliable narrator at that point. 

[BK1978]

55 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Can be be absolutely certain that Speedwagon was really working with the state police? I kind of thought that Ally killed him and then made up that story to tell Kai, to make him feel guilty about killing Winter. Ally wasn't exactly a reliable narrator at that point. 

That was what I was thinking as well.  I had a feeling that as you said she was not a reliable narrator and wanted to let Kai hear what would make him feel good and not what really happened.

I will say this, I did enjoy how Ryan Murphy took shots at both the far right and the far left.  He made them both look bad and I was not expecting that.

This season was really good but I still have to go with the first season and last season as my top two.  This season did knock Coven out of the third spot.

Heading into this season I was very iffy about watching it.  I mean I did really like Roanoke but I despised Hotel and was not a huge fan of Freak Show.  Therefore, I was on the fence about giving this season a chance (I felt the same way heading into Roanoke) but I am glad I gave it a shot.  Ryan Murphy did deliver once again.

[Surrealist]

22 minutes ago, BK1978 said:

I did enjoy how Ryan Murphy took shots at both the far right and the far left.  He made them both look bad and I was not expecting that.

Same. I wasn't expecting him to lay into both in the way that he did. 

I didn't have anyone to root for in this season, except for Ozy. I'm glad that Beverly killed Kai, but the ending wasn't satisfactory. Which, I'm guessing, is the entire point. 

[Hazel55]

On 11/14/2017 at 10:14 PM, TobinAlbers said:

Ally killed four people, got off Scott free, and now is using her new political cult power base to restart SCUM - a man hating group that encourages violence and murder against men and calls them turds- and has custody of a young boy that she believes she loves even as she leads SCUM and this is a happy ending?

Not a happy ending-- a haunting, and--if one looks back at the way in which Ally's character has been portrayed from the beginning-- a perfectly logical and foreseeable one. 

Ally's ultimate corruption (she is basically the replacement Kai, with a different gender, slightly different rhetoric, and far better hair) is not out of line with the utter (but subtle) self-centeredness she has shown since the beginning of the show. In the first episodes, she was traumatized, mentally ill, and in a position of powerlessness, so she mostly evoked pity (and, from some of us, a bit of annoyance as well.) However, from the beginning there were some serious "warning flags" that Ally was selfish, self-serving, out of touch, and not likely to empathize with anyone save herself and her son. 

At the beginning, she preaches a liberal gospel-- but does very little to help out anyone else. Like any good liberal, she raves against trumps mistreatment of immigrants and minorities, yet allows a Caucasian employee to discriminate against a Latino employee on the grounds of race, blatantly taking the racist white employees side. (She also assumes that the aforementioned Latino, who has been working for her for EIGHT YEARS, is an immigrant, though he was born in the U.S.) And worst of all, when she shoots an innocent unarmed man, she expresses no real remorse for the crime itself or the victim, or his apparently abandoned family-- all of her concern is for herself ("How much trouble am I in?") and her son-- in that order. (Seriously, she makes sure to ask the police officer if she is going to be busted before even thinking about the trauma she's just put her son through.

Oh, and when people actually react negatively to her shooting of an unarmed man of color, she reacts with outrage at their outrage. And then attempts to stop and calmly explain to the angry mob assembled outside the restaurant baying for her blood that, hey, it's all okay, she's actually one of them, and she didn't really mean to shoot that unarmed man of color, so everything should be okay, right? 

So I'd say that from the beginning, despite the  suffering her multiple phobias are causing her and those scary clowns she keeps seeing, Ally's combination of self-righteousness and self-regard, combined with utter selfishness, hypocrisy, and thoughtless lack of empathy for others made her a difficult character to sympathize with. 

However, then we learn that perhaps the worst thing that could happen to a person is happening to Ally-- that the person she's placed her faith in and trusted with all of her secrets, Ivy, has been betraying her in the worst possible way. Learning that Ally has been the victim of an extended game of slow psychological torture designed to get her locked away for life and deprive her of her son was something that made even the most hard heated of audience members feel sorry for her. Furthermore, Ivy, perhaps the most despicable villain ever featured on this show, pretty much earned universal hatred from the audience; so even those who did not like Ally were rooting for her to rise up and defeat the hateful Ivy and her other tormenters. 

And in the midst of that, I think a lot of us were able to forget (or dismiss) earlier qualms we had about the innate decency of this character. 

Similarly, when Ally coldly plots to murder Ivy, then watches with a smile of pure satisfaction as Ivy coughs up blood, few people were put off by Ally's behavior. Most watchers were so pleased to see Ivy get hers that the question of Ally’s deep pleasure in plotting and committing a murder (righteous or otherwise) might say about her as a human being flew right out the window. Winter, the audience also seemed to concede, was asking for it.

But the disturbing thing was that by the time Ally is getting back at Winter last episode, she could (and should) have taken Oz and gotten the hell out of Dodge long ago. If her first priority was her son, she would have absconded with him by that point. Or if her first priority was justice, she would have been focusing on entrapping Kai rather than infiltrating herself into his cult powerbase and killing all those who’d wronged her. Clearly, by last episode (if not before) it became clear that Ally was not the heroine. She was simply the usurper who was aiming to replace Kai.

And the trajectory that her character followed was not unlike the one we saw Kai follow on his path to power. (And, Murphy implies, not unlike the path that many cult leaders, perhaps politicians, follow.) Initially, an apparently harmless person, blessed with intelligence and other significant gifts but unsure how to use them, feels useless, lost, and out of place in this world. Something significant happens to make the aforementioned person feel helpless. (Trumps victory and the return of her phobias for Ally; his parents murder suicide and the minister incident for Kai.) The aforementioned person, in desperation, finds some sort of mission that gives their life a sense of previously missing purpose. (For Kai, “bringing down the patriarchy”: for Ally, destroying those who have wronged and tortured her and getting back her son.)

The person in question then gathers power, finally learning how to use their previously untapped gifts to gain followers and attain their loyalty and compliance. And in doing this, the person in question gets a taste of power, forgets (or simply disregards) their original reasons for attempting to get power, and go on to simply revel in power in and of itself. In doing so, the person (now a cult leader or politician, whichever term one prefers) begins to fully accept the false, savior persona of themselves that they have put out there—they buy into their hype. They have partaken of their own Kool Aide, so to speak.

That’s what happened to Kai, and, in this last episode, that’s what happened to Ally.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Hazel55

[mamadrama]

I had several Republican friends who refused to even give this season a try because they were certain that it would be a whole season of Trump bashing. I tried to tell them that there was a fair equal amount of ribbing on both sides but I couldn't convince them. I mean, I am a liberal and I still laughed at the punches my "side" took. It kind of showed extremism and stereotypes on both ends. He did a good job. 

[Stringey]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

"Women can't win!"

Yes. We. Can.

So I take it Ally used her new position to bring back the SCUM cult? I'm okay with that.

This just means she is no better than kai

[Hazel55]

3 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Ally gave no fucks about his life which pretty much foreshadowed her turn in the final scene. The power balance has been upended except the people in charge are just as toxic, corrupt, and evil. 

And I believe that was Murphy's point, as well as the overarching theme of this season.  After all, is there really that much of a difference between a conservative, sexist, male cult leader (politician?) who gives zero fucks about others and only wants power for itself; and a liberal, feminist, female cult leader (politician?) who gives zero fucks for others and only wants power for itself? The rhetoric may change, but the wizard behind the curtain basically remains the same, in terms of means and motives. Or: power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

3 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

This was still a better season then others though so kudos. 

I think this has been by far the best season of AHS since Asylum. (In my opinion the first two seasons are by far the best; there is an enormous dip in quality for the next 4 seasons, with the show literally getting worse each year. Season six was an improvement over season 5, which was the all time low for the series in terms of quality on so many levels.)

I think that this season was so much better because they managed two things: first, the abysmal planning that plagued seasons 3-5 was wildly improved here. Despite some massive gaps in plausibility predictable for this show (shooting an unarmed man has no consequences! Kai can shut down the internet! Beverly is the only newsperson in town! A city council member has the power to recruit their own plain clothes army!), it started at point A and ended at point B; the beginning was a logical progression to the end, without too much filler and incoherent, dropped storylines.

More importantly, Murphy finally seemed to be able to get back the thematic depth and the exploration of deeper moral issues that characterized Murder House and Asylum. Despite the amorality of pretty much all of the characters, the show itself clearly took a stance on moral issues—namely the abuse of power and the dangers of intellectual dishonesty and mindless following. And Murphy’s exploration about how anything—from conservatism to feminism—can become a vehicle for hatred and vengeance was fascinating and timely; far better than, say, Hotel’s decision to abandon philosophical themes altogether in order to focus more on Lady Gaga’s (increasingly ridiculous) outfits.

[RedMal]

Umm... So what happened with the prison guard? She was teamed up with Ally, so she let the poor new prisoner to die extremely violently, so that Kai could escape and attack Ally once again? And "that team leader thing was such a turn off". So was that the plan from the very first day Kai went to the prison or was she actually getting involved and later changed her mind? Like what the fuck? However it goes, her life is now ruined.

I got the feeling that Ally didn't actually kill Speedwagon, but only said so to Kai.

Not quite sure if I liked this finale or not. It wasn't bad, but it seemed that there just was something missing. However, this season was definitely the strongest one of the series. It's quite rare for a show that's on it's seventh season already.

[shedevil1111]

absolutely agree with others that I liked how the show took aim at both sides, and I'm a liberal. Honestly if it would have only went after trump supporters it wouldn't have been as deep or entertaining. People should be loyal to their country, not their party... and be able to see the flaws and demons in their own party not just the other party. The shots at the liberal side were brilliant. To me, they were more deep and meaningful than the shots he took on the trump side (which seemed more surface level). But he also showed how no matter what party we are in how easy it is for us to be controlled through fear. 

 

I was really surprised by this last episode. It wasn't "scary" and wrapped things up more than is usually done. I loved when Ally said the real thing to fear is a nasty woman! 

[darkestboy]

For a season that laid on the political commentary way too thick and started off rather shaky, I actually think this was one of the strongest finales we've had with the series.

Kai's arrest seemed quick and his escape/recruiting another cult inevitable, so seeing Ally know all that in advance and make her own back up plan really did show that she's learned a lot in the last few episodes.

Loved that Beverly was the one who killed him though and that the female prison officer was his undoing as well. Kai died a humiliated and rather pathetic figure in the end.

The end scene was nicely ambiguous as well. Has Ally really set up that SCUM cult again?

Speedwagon probably didn't deserve to die, if he actually did. Maybe Ally just handed him over to the feds or something.

Hope we don't have to wait too long to find out what next season's theme is, 9/10
 

[sugarbaker design]

1 hour ago, darkestboy said:

I actually think this was one of the strongest finales we've had with the series.

So impressed with the finale.  Strong ending to a strong season.

 

1 hour ago, darkestboy said:

Speedwagon probably didn't deserve to die, if he actually did. Maybe Ally just handed him over to the feds or something.

No Speedwagon didn't deserve to die, neither did Ivy or Winter, but Ally felt differently.  If Ally had just told Kai about Speedwagon, I would've had my doubts, but since it was shown, I'm going to believe Ally did kill Speedwagon.  Ally was victimized by Kai, Ally overcame Kai and Ally became an even bigger threat than Kai.

Hoping we get a return to the supernatural next season.

Edited November 15, 2017 by sugarbaker design

[Stringey]

2 hours ago, darkestboy said:

For a season that laid on the political commentary way too thick and started off rather shaky, I actually think this was one of the strongest finales we've had with the series.

Kai's arrest seemed quick and his escape/recruiting another cult inevitable, so seeing Ally know all that in advance and make her own back up plan really did show that she's learned a lot in the last few episodes.

Loved that Beverly was the one who killed him though and that the female prison officer was his undoing as well. Kai died a humiliated and rather pathetic figure in the end.

The end scene was nicely ambiguous as well. Has Ally really set up that SCUM cult again?

Speedwagon probably didn't deserve to die, if he actually did. Maybe Ally just handed him over to the feds or something.

Hope we don't have to wait too long to find out what next season's theme is, 9/10
 

Yes my first reaction when I saw ally put on that green hood was kind of ambiguous. I think it leaves it up too the imagination. She was telling oz she was going to meet up with a group of women and do political stuff to make things better or something. I don't remember her words but it comes to something like that. She also said something about wanting men to be better and wants oz to be a better man than the ones before him(which tells me oz at his young age has already had to be told negative stuff about men now  don't put that burden on him he is a kid) which at that point the hairs on the back of my neck were raising at the thought of her having her own agenda cult. And in the last scene when we see her putting on the green hood was sinister. Your first reaction to it all was that she was leading a new cult from her discussion with oz and the green hood. But then I also wondered if maybe  the talk and the hood were just innocent and her group was only what she told oz. Just a political group of women and nothing more sinister than that. The hood was a little strange but maybe it just symbolized her being inspired by bebe in some ways(who was a strong woman)and not that she was continuing SCUM.  There was no proof either way I think it was just meant to be ambiguous. I am going to not give ally the benefit of the doubt and say she was  starting her own cult. Her and bev and the black security guard are members for sure.

[Anela]

10 minutes ago, Stringey said:

Yes my first reaction when I saw ally put on that green hood was kind of ambiguous. I think it leaves it up too the imagination. She was telling oz she was going to meet up with a group of women and do political stuff to make things better or something. I don't remember her words but it comes to something like that. She also said something about wanting men to be better and wants oz to be a better man than the ones before him(which tells me oz at his young age has already had to be told negative stuff about men now  don't put that burden on him he is a kid) which at that point the hairs on the back of my neck were raising at the thought of her having her own agenda cult. And in the last scene when we see her putting on the green hood was sinister. Your first reaction to it all was that she was leading a new cult from her discussion with oz and the green hood. But then I also wondered if maybe  the talk and the hood were just innocent and her group was only what she told oz. Just a political group of women and nothing more sinister than that. The hood was a little strange but maybe it just symbolized her being inspired by bebe in some ways(who was a strong woman)and not that she was continuing SCUM.  There was no proof either way I think it was just meant to be ambiguous. I am going to not give ally the benefit of the doubt and say she was  starting her own cult. Her and bev and the black security guard are members for sure.

I just read an interview where she said it should be a mystery, but also said something about raising him to be a feminist, on the right side of history. http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/14/american-horror-story-cult-sarah-paulson-finale/

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, RedMal said:

I got the feeling that Ally didn't actually kill Speedwagon, but only said so to Kai.

That's what I thought too.  We can't trust all the flashbacks, as evidenced by when we saw Winter actually kill that one guy, then showed a false "flashback" as she was framing Beverly for it.

Look, I don't condone anything Ally did.  I agree that she was a hypocrite in a lot of ways, politically.  However, we ought to remember that she originally just wanted to take Oz and run after infiltrating the cult, until Kai "claimed" him as his son and Ivy was willing to leave him alone with him.  Whether Ally had actually been planning to kill Ivy somewhere down the road after the three of them got away is anybody's guess, but at that point, it confirmed that she couldn't trust Ivy, and proceeded to kill Ivy and manipulate her way into Kai's good graces.  She did what she had to do to survive.  

[LoneHaranguer]

5 hours ago, RedMal said:

Umm... So what happened with the prison guard? She was teamed up with Ally, so she let the poor new prisoner to die extremely violently, so that Kai could escape and attack Ally once again?

None of the prison stuff was done well. Nobody would have been fooled by the patsy with the fresh tattoos. Or let Kai play dress-up and walk out; it was supposed to be a maximum security prison. What kind of prison has its pay phones outside where you can see traffic pass by? Are big tough inmates really going to follow a guy who wants to lock pinkies?

3 hours ago, shedevil1111 said:

The shots at the liberal side were brilliant. To me, they were more deep and meaningful than the shots he took on the trump side (which seemed more surface level).

Not just surface level, but at a straw-man representation, like the writers were cribbing from the late-night comics.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I got the feeling that Ally didn't actually kill Speedwagon, but only said so to Kai.

I'm confident what we saw in the car actually happened. She made a point of asking him if the police were listening in on him and he explained that what he wore was only a recording device, not a transmission. At which point she stabbed him in the throat. She then offered that very recording to Kai to prove Speedwagon's confession and her own loyalty to Kai.

Overall, I thought this season was more tightly written than the previous four, but it wasn't particularly scary. I still have not felt that anticipation of each new episode the way I used to in the first two seasons. In fact I've always sort of felt that Ryan Murphy blew his wad on Season 2, which had enough ideas in it for several seasons, and has struggled since then to come up with good ideas. This was interesting, in a way, but it wasn't particularly fun to watch. 

[Stringey]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

I just read an interview where she said it should be a mystery, but also said something about raising him to be a feminist, on the right side of history. http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/14/american-horror-story-cult-sarah-paulson-finale/

After reading this article I am doubting more that ally is necessarily in a violent cult. I think maybe she has power now and might abuse it in some way but I don't think necessarily the ending has to mean something dark as in her having a cult that goes out and kills men. I believe she is involved with a group of people that are going to be extreme and cultish but not like kai.  I wish Sara Paulson would have told us her interpretation

[Chaos Theory]

I really like the finale and the season as a whole.  I think this might be my favorite season yet.  Everything about the finale worked for me.  Kai completely unraveling.  Ally and her manipulation of Kai and almost everyone else. The final confrontation between Kai and Ally.  The ending was a little too vague for me but other then that this is my favorite season yet.

[Anela]

I thought the clown toy just showed that she was over her phobia. 

[Mattipoo]

I liked the season finale fine, especially Ally’s “nasty woman” comment to the male senator. But I wish there were more connections to previous seasons.

Evan Peters did a good job as Kai and the other cult leaders. Loved Beverly shooting him in the head at the end too.

I think Ryan Murphy once mentioned the next season will be a “Coven” and “Freakshow” crossover, so maybe Ally is meeting the witches from “Coven” at the end of the finale.

[Stringey]

24 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I really like the finale and the season as a whole.  I think this might be my favorite season yet.  Everything about the finale worked for me.  Kai completely unraveling.  Ally and her manipulation of Kai and almost everyone else. The final confrontation between Kai and Ally.  The ending was a little too vague for me but other then that this is my favorite season yet.

Sometimes I kind of like vagueness cryptic endings. If you have not already read the article in the link above.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I think Ryan Murphy once mentioned the next season will be a “Coven” and “Freakshow” crossover, 

Oh Lord, those are two of the worst seasons. Bad idea.

Edited November 15, 2017 by iMonrey

[RalyWilmy]

2 hours ago, Mattipoo said:

I liked the season finale fine, especially Ally’s “nasty woman” comment to the male senator. But I wish there were more connections to previous seasons.

I did get a kick out of the girlfriend saying "if she wouldn't do Lana Winters why would she do Rachel Maddow?" (not sure that's the correct phrase).  But I agree with you.  It's nice to be reminded that the seasons are in the same universe but I would love a more substantial crossover.

[peacheslatour]

14 hours ago, Stringey said:

This just means she is no better than kai

Which was the point, yeah?

[Daisy head]

18 hours ago, GoneGirl said:

How did Ally know that Kai was had a relationship with the African American prison guard? This bothers me....other than that I found the finale very predictable, down to Bev taking Kai out in the end. 

As much as I liked the Nasty Woman comment, this finale fell flat to me. It was all very predictable & IMO not very exciting.

[SimoneS]

I can't agree with the comments that Ally is no different from Kai. Of course, she is different. Yes, she was self-indulgent and had ridiculous politics, but she wasn't out there causing mayhem when Kai and Ivy started victimizing her (and Oz). They almost drove her insane. It was her inner strength that pulled her back from the edge of insanity. Everything that she did after that, the murders and the deception were rooted in her desperation to rescue Oz from the Cult. Even if she did enjoy killing Ivy, she clearly did it to gain Kai's trust. I find Ally a very sympathetic character.  Now if she is going around butchering people now, my opinion about her will change completely.

Edited November 15, 2017 by SimoneS

[Stringey]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Which was the point, yeah?

Actually after reading the article in the link i have a different interpretation of the ending. They said it's meant to be ambiguous. I don't know anymore if I really think she is going to go out killing people. I think there will be something strange about what she does though and a little dark but not necessarily killing people. I think she will be leading some kind of group.

[peacheslatour]

1 minute ago, Stringey said:

Actually after reading the article in the link i have a different interpretation of the ending. They said it's meant to be ambiguous. I don't know anymore if I really think she is going to go out killing people. I think there will be something strange about what she does though and a little dark but not necessarily killing people. I think she will be leading some kind of group.

I don't think she's nearly as crazy as Kai. Crazy yes but not the way he was. I hope she just leads the group as some kind of political action group and not an insane killing sisterhood.

[Stringey]

14 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I don't think she's nearly as crazy as Kai. Crazy yes but not the way he was. I hope she just leads the group as some kind of political action group and not an insane killing sisterhood.

Exactly. They did a good job of making the last scene ambiguous. The way she was talking to oz about how she was meeting up with some powerful women and how she wanted oz to be a better man than the ones before him. It was really positive on one hand but given all of what this season has been about i felt sinister undertones like she was hiding something from him. I re watched the finale and played very close attention to the last scene of ally in front of the mirror. If I am remembering right her face was very solemn with no expression . I don't want to say she looked sad but there was no twinkle in her eye like you think she would have with being newly elected as senator with the world at her feet. Well maybe sad is the wrong word more solemn and serious. And it was the final thing with the hood that got my mind thinking she would be another Kai but again after reading the article I doubt that. I think one thing we learned from this season is that any cause and political group can become cultish and dangerous and scary when taken to extremes. Even good causes  I think ally with her political power is going to make a big difference for women but to what extremes will she go to. We did get a little taste of her crazy with some of the unnecessary killings like ivy and speed wagon. Omg the friendly open smile before the stab in the chest.

[peacheslatour]

Well said Stringey, well said.

[Christi]

why was Kai in jail? guess I missed sumthin

[queenanne]

11 hours ago, Stringey said:

Yes my first reaction when I saw ally put on that green hood was kind of ambiguous. I think it leaves it up too the imagination. She was telling oz she was going to meet up with a group of women and do political stuff to make things better or something. I don't remember her words but it comes to something like that. She also said something about wanting men to be better and wants oz to be a better man than the ones before him(which tells me oz at his young age has already had to be told negative stuff about men now  don't put that burden on him he is a kid) which at that point the hairs on the back of my neck were raising at the thought of her having her own agenda cult. And in the last scene when we see her putting on the green hood was sinister. Your first reaction to it all was that she was leading a new cult from her discussion with oz and the green hood. But then I also wondered if maybe  the talk and the hood were just innocent and her group was only what she told oz. Just a political group of women and nothing more sinister than that. The hood was a little strange but maybe it just symbolized her being inspired by bebe in some ways(who was a strong woman)and not that she was continuing SCUM.  There was no proof either way I think it was just meant to be ambiguous. I am going to not give ally the benefit of the doubt and say she was  starting her own cult. Her and bev and the black security guard are members for sure.

I thought the ending was great and subtle, especially the part where Ally was on her own and not surrounded by followers or other members.  RM could have really laid it on thick, but showed admirable restraint.

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm confident what we saw in the car actually happened. She made a point of asking him if the police were listening in on him and he explained that what he wore was only a recording device, not a transmission. At which point she stabbed him in the throat. She then offered that very recording to Kai to prove Speedwagon's confession and her own loyalty to Kai.

I'm confident because the beginning of the scene approached point of view of the driver's seat from outside the windshield.  I should think if Ally's subjective POV, would have been all looking laterally/sideways with the camera figuratively in Sarah's lap, or at least shooting over her shoulder.

[Stringey]

2 hours ago, Christi said:

why was Kai in jail? guess I missed sumthin

Ally was undercover and helping the feds. Kai and his beavis and butthead army got busted.

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Well said Stringey, well said.

Thanks

[Captanne]

I read the Handmaid's Tale many, many years ago and as much as I like that actress, I didn't see the mini-series.  I wonder if the green velvet hooded cloak was an homage to the red habit and wimple?  In other words, Ally is going to start a woman's movement (it would make sense.)  (ETA:  Actually, not really ~start~ -- she's going to carry on what started with the election of a President with such a misogynist history.  Rather than a pink pussycat cap, she's wearing something a little more dramatic.  She's carrying on what is only nascent.)

 

That said, I think it's just a legitimate mystery.  I don't sense any connection (did they wear those things in SCUM when they committed the Zodiac murders?)

 

EETA:  Stringey, I just read your review and as you (we) struggle over the word "sad" -- I think it's more a look of a woman with a mission.  Not really defiance but someone with a clear plan and goal.  We just don't really know what that is -- but we have an idea it involves women and power.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Captanne

[TheRabbi]

As a conservative, I went into this season absolutely dreading it, expecting nothing but liberal propaganda the entire series. I must say this season was just awesome, and destroyed my expectations. I appreciated that they attacked both sides of the spectrum, Evan Peters was amazing, and the supporting cast was great as well (particularly the crazy beekeeper neighbors Billy Eichner and....dont know her name).

I wasn't a huge fan of the final confrontation, it felt a bit too implausible. Where was security? If Kai's people were holding them at gunpoint, then where were Kai's followers when it was obvious it was a trap? I don' buy the female prison guard's motive at all, as her life has to now basically be over. 

I wasn't a huge fan of Evan Peters playing every single important character in flashbacks, but I understand the narrative choice from his point of view. He killed it this year.

My favorite episode was undoubtedly 'Midwestern Assasin', as all the twists and turns that took was awesome. 

 

The show for me was on a downward trajectory with a mediocre freakshow and a HORRIBLE hotel. But I enjoyed Roanoake a good amount, and this was even better. I'll certainly be back again next season.

[Dobian]

I guess Ally is going to New Orleans to start a coven lol.  I was pretty underwhelmed by the finale.  The final showdown between Kai and Ally was interesting, but other than that it wasn't very compelling to me.  For me this was the least scary of the American Horror seasons even though it was designed to be the most scary because it was supposed to be the most "this could really happen in your neighborhood" kind of thing.  The old Twilight Zone episode "Monsters are Due on Maple Street" that it partly tried to emulate did a much more effective job in just thirty minutes of laying bear the horrors of human behavior.  It was more social commentary, and as a social commentary it did hit on a few good talking points, but never really brought its message fully together.  It was also hard to root for Sarah Paulson triumphing in the end when she was presented all season as someone not to root for.  Even in the last couple of episodes where she did a 180 and turned the tables on Ivy and Kai, I couldn't really root for her.  I guess the point was that in the end she is just another cult figure in the making using politics to build her following.  But the show didn't do a particularly good job of conveying that either.  Personally I give this season a D.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Dobian

[sugarbaker design]

2 hours ago, TheRabbi said:

The show for me was on a downward trajectory with a mediocre freakshow and a HORRIBLE hotel. But I enjoyed Roanoake a good amount, and this was even better. I'll certainly be back again next season.

Totally agree, almost.  I would rate Freakshow as horrible; Hotel mediocre.  But I loved Roanoke and Cult was even better.

[Captanne]

Without straying off topic -- I have to say I really enjoyed Cult.  I've been impressed by Evan Peters since he played Tate in Murder House.  I watched him do "Loveable Lug" in Freakshow and then his wonderful tour de force in Hotel.  Now that Cult has ended, he really amazes me.  So, he's been the consistent thread throughout the series that kept me coming back and Cult was a delight to experience.  (I'm not fond of Misty Morning or whoever she is, and I really just cannot warm up to Sarah Paulson -- I think it's her lisp that drives me nuts.  The rest of the main ensemble cast just leaves me cold.  Except, of course, Jessica Lange who was the other actor who kept me coming back.  Her "Life on Mars" was spectacular.  Not to mention the dancing one in Asylum.*)

That said, because of Lange and Peters, I enjoyed Freakshow and Hotel.  

Roanoke left me confused.

 

*There are other cast members who are really excellent -- Mare Winningham is always a delight, and that tall, thin man who usually plays a sort of shady travelling salesman type.  He's wonderful, too.

[jnymph]

Ha. I'm actually liking the finale a little better AFTER coming here and reading everyone's thoughts and interpretations.  :)   

I liked this season far better than Hotel. 

Season ratings for me as follows:

1 - Asylum 

2 - Murder House 

3 - Freak show 

4 - Cult 

5 - Coven 

6 - Hotel  

Never saw Roanoke. 

[iMonrey]

Here's a good review that sums up my feelings about this season.

Quote

There is no right way to be an “American horror story,” however, if you ask me, there’s a wrong way to do it, and Cult succeeded in that regard. The show, all along, was built around the mysterious, supernatural, and unexplained aspects of life. Over the last six seasons we’ve had ghosts, zombies, witches, vampires, more ghosts, ghosts that murder, ghosts that can have sex with you, conjoined twins, and that Pig Man from Roanoke.

What did Season 7 have? Uh, Politics? And, impressive interior design? And, uhhhh, bees? And on a few occasions, a trip to the therapist? None of that really screams ~spooky American history and culture~.

I totally understand what Mr. Ryan Murphy was going for with this season of AHS. He was going for a literal American horror story, in the sense that this is what could happen if we let our fears get the better of us — and for some of us, they have since the 2016 Presidential Election. But the season was neither a sharp commentary on our nation’s current political division, nor did it feature any gd GHOSTS, which means it felt somewhere in-between what it should have been.

[llewis823]

1 hour ago, jnymph said:

Season ratings for me as follows:

1 - Asylum 

2 - Murder House 

3 - Freak show 

4 - Cult 

5 - Coven 

6 - Hotel  

Never saw Roanoke. 

Been wanting to rate them  - more for my own benefit than anything else, but what better place to do so. So here's my season ratings:

1 - Murder House (I always see the "surprise" coming, but I was just shocked - I mean REALLY shocked - when Violet saw her own dead body - as in I ran around the house yelling "OMG, OMG!" - never saw that coming)

2 - Cult - really well done - like someone else said - I wasn't going to watch at first thinking it was going to ridicule just one political party/view/etc. but they gave equal opportunity slamming!)

3 - Freak Show - liked the freaks and their weird stories. 

4 - Asylum (Just didn't like the alien part and the musicals - I DETEST musicals)

5 - Roanoke - I think the premise was good but the whole thing reeked of the Blair Witch movie. In other words, lame.

6 - Coven - I liked the characters and the Nawlins' setting - just didn't care much for the story itself.

7 - Hotel - The only thing that saved this season was Liz Taylor! LOVED Liz Taylor's character. (and the serial murder dinner was kind of cool too) but just do not get the appeal of Lady GaGa as a singer or an actress.

[shedevil1111]

On 11/15/2017 at 0:53 PM, LoneHaranguer said:

None of the prison stuff was done well. Nobody would have been fooled by the patsy with the fresh tattoos. Or let Kai play dress-up and walk out; it was supposed to be a maximum security prison. What kind of prison has its pay phones outside where you can see traffic pass by? Are big tough inmates really going to follow a guy who wants to lock pinkies?

Not just surface level, but at a straw-man representation, like the writers were cribbing from the late-night comics.

Yep I almost wrote caricature.  

[Dobian]

21 minutes ago, llewis823 said:

Been wanting to rate them  - more for my own benefit than anything else, but what better place to do so. So here's my season ratings:

1 - Murder House (I always see the "surprise" coming, but I was just shocked - I mean REALLY shocked - when Violet saw her own dead body - as in I ran around the house yelling "OMG, OMG!" - never saw that coming)

2 - Cult - really well done - like someone else said - I wasn't going to watch at first thinking it was going to ridicule just one political party/view/etc. but they gave equal opportunity slamming!)

3 - Freak Show - liked the freaks and their weird stories. 

4 - Asylum (Just didn't like the alien part and the musicals - I DETEST musicals)

5 - Roanoke - I think the premise was good but the whole thing reeked of the Blair Witch movie. In other words, lame.

6 - Coven - I liked the characters and the Nawlins' setting - just didn't care much for the story itself.

7 - Hotel - The only thing that saved this season was Liz Taylor! LOVED Liz Taylor's character. (and the serial murder dinner was kind of cool too) but just do not get the appeal of Lady GaGa as a singer or an actress.

Mine, and not necessarily what I think are the "best" or "worst" but what I enjoyed the most.

1  Freak Show - I though Jessica Lange gave a tour de force, Sarah Paulson was at her best as the conjoined twins, and I really liked the setting and the different characters' stories

2  Coven - I know most people rate this one kind of low but for some reason it grabbed me.  And Kathy Bates was terrific.

3  Hotel - Another one most people rate kind of low but the setting for this season was fantastic, the old art deco hotel that truly was a character in its own right.  And Denis O'Hare was amazing in his role, as was Evan Peters.

4  Murder House - So long ago that some of the details are now fuzzy, but I remember the Columbine stuff and the general scary/tragic atmosphere.  It was a solid season and made me want to watch the next one.

5  Roanoke - The one season that actually truly was scary at times.  Fantastic setting.  It could have been one of the best seasons but the second half fell apart when the actual people returned with the actors.  Too many plot holes and illogical situations.

6  Asylum - I liked a lot of things about Asylum, but it was too all over the place.  I lost count of how many themes they tried to pile into this one season, from demonic possession to alien abductions to grind house horror.  It was kind of a steaming hot mess.

7  Cult - I know what they were trying to do, but they just couldn't quite pull it together.  I found the season neither scary nor politically/socially savvy.   The overall message was muddled, and when they switched gears from it being about liberal vs conservative to being about gender, it was too disjointed to me.  I just think that a show about a cult based on an actual one like Jim jones or David Koresh could have been much scarier and more disturbing.  This one was kind of nutty.