S02.E05: Chapter Eighteen: When A Stranger Calls

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, truthaboutluv said:

Except Betty and Archie have known each other their whole lives. Didn't Jughead meet this girl like a week ago or whatever the hell this show's timeline is? And the friendship would be great if the writers didn't go full speed ahead with clearly making her a romantic interloper in his relationship with Betty, right down to a kiss mere seconds after his and Betty's relationship was over. 

 

Again, great sentiment but maybe would be more realistic if the writers hadn't gone full speed ahead, hitting every cliche they could with making a romantic threat to Jughead and Betty's relationship, including having her make catty and snide comments about Betty. Because you know, as women, that's what we do.

Yup, Toni has been on her fight mode since she met Betty and now she’s going in for Jughead after finding out he and Betty aren’t together. The writers didn’t even try with this. Sorry. I’m disappointed. I’m holding out hope it’s nothing and a no go and that Betty and Jughead find their way back to each other quickly. 

[galax-arena]

Its fun talking trash about cheesy teeny shows. I mean you would think that shows wpuld have figured new and original story ideas but they still go for the cliche storylines eugh.  

Honestly, I'm not sure I'd enjoy this show half as much if it were less cliche/cheesy. Riverdale is such a dumb show and I love it! 

TBH, despite my comments in last episode's thread, I don't even actually want Jughead to die, because every cheesy teen show needs a popular character for me to flat out irrationally dislike. It's a staple! And poor Archie is just too boring to hate thoroughly. 

[Chick2Chic]

This is the first episode this season where I didn't clockwatch. Progress with pacing and editing. 

I enjoyed Betty ripping into Veronica. I know why she did it but I don't care. Veronica is still a meh character to me due to bland writing but something about the way she speaks - that bad Mae West imitation - really annoyed me in the ep so I cheered Betty's smackdown regardless.

I still like Toni. I'm ambivalent about she and Jughead kissing, mostly cause I don't want to see the actress get more death threats from Bughead fans even though Toni had nothing to do with Bughead's break-up.

Loved Alice walking in to the party in that dress and necklace. FIRE! She's a mess but the woman has style.

Nick is trash. I can't feel badly for him that Betty gave the Black Hood his name at the end of the ep. He's a date rapist who drugs women. I feel no sympathy for him for what whatever is coming his way.

Was nice to see a little of Josie & Reggie being touchy feel at the party cause they do look pretty together .... but... WTF that none of the Pussycats had any lines in the ep? They were in it for a decent amount but little more than background props. That's not how writing more for Josie and The Pussycats in S2 works, Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa! I got to see Josie sing and then Ronnie tried to sing (even though Valerie has a better voice), but other than that, not a peep from the Riverdale north side Black women. That is trash writing. No excuse for that crap. I guess I should be thankful RAS has Toni speak at all in her scenes and not sing or be just an animate background prop.

[Chick2Chic]

3 hours ago, galax-arena said:

I rolled my eyes when Archie acted so indignant towards the other serpents. Dude, did you forget to mention that you pulled a fucking gun on them? You instigated all that shit, dumbass. 

 

Yes! Thank you. Archie went on that long diatribe without mentioning he went to the south side, spray painted all over other's properties, and pulled a gun on the Serpents who confronted him about his vandalism. Made it seem like they confronted him for no reason at all.  

[Inquiry]

5 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

Yes! Thank you. Archie went on that long diatribe without mentioning he went to the south side, spray painted all over other's properties, and pulled a gun on the Serpents who confronted him about his vandalism. Made it seem like they confronted him for no reason at all.  

Not to defend Archie (seriously, what he did was idiotic), but didn't he only pull out the gun after one of the Serpents pulled out a knife and threatened him? Makes it a bit more understandable, to me anyway. 

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, Inquiry said:

Not to defend Archie (seriously, what he did was idiotic), but didn't he only pull out the gun after one of the Serpents pulled out a knife and threatened him? Makes it a bit more understandable, to me anyway. 

No, I’m pretty sure he first pulled out his gun when the serpents confronted him about his spray painting. They didn’t have any weapons then on themselves.

Edited November 9, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[Dee]

It's so difficult to watch dramatic scenes between characters with names like Jughead and Sweet Pea. I understand it's the source material, but it's still really distracting.

[Chick2Chic]

6 minutes ago, Inquiry said:

Not to defend Archie (seriously, what he did was idiotic), but didn't he only pull out the gun after one of the Serpents pulled out a knife and threatened him? Makes it a bit more understandable, to me anyway. 

I can't recall if Sweet Pea did, but Archie still managed to skip over all the stuff he did - even if the gun he was packing was pulled out after he got a knife pulled on him, he still was packing heat while vandalizing property in the south side - like the Serpents just picked on him for no reason and he was an innocent victim minding his own business that they terrorized. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Chick2Chic
fix

[galax-arena]

Quote

No, I’m pretty sure he first pulled out his gun when the serpents confronted him about his spray painting. They didn’t have any weapons then on themselves.

I'm pretty sure they did pull out a pocketknife first. But yeah, he was vandalizing their neighborhood and was obviously looking to start something. But the way Archie tells it, he was just innocent north side Archie. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by galax-arena

[Snookums]

Quote

so she took advantage of the loophole and told Archie. 

Yeah, but BH is a big fat liar; he told her that if she published the Alice expose she could ask him any question, and after she did he was all "but not my name." Bullshit on the takesy-backsies! Bets, that right there showed you he can't be trusted!

So, I know there's been some speculation that Betty is the Black Hood, but I don't see how. The original Fred shooting took place before any of this stuff and it was clearly a man. Grundy was also killed by the same man, green eyes and all, and a man shot Moose and Midge. There's no way Betty was successfully pulling that off unless she's the unheralded World's Greatest Master Of Disguise. 

Plus, Archie heard him on the phone; I suppose that could have been her talking to a recording but that's very difficult to time properly so it sounds like an actual conversation. The only real piece of evidence that there's something fishy is that BH claims to know that Polly's on a farm. We saw Polly telling Betty that, but very adamantly refusing to say goodbye to Hal and Alice. So, does anybody besides Betty know where she is? I honestly can't remember if it's been brought up by the Coopers since.

[WhosThatGirl]

Didn’t Polly shout to Hal and Alice that she called the farm and the people at the farm  said she could still go? When he made her “I’m an out of wed teenage pregnant with my cousins baby” speech? 

Edited November 9, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[paulvdb]

Also, couldn't BH just have followed Polly when she left to go to the farm? We know that he is keeping an eye on Betty, so he could have easily seen Polly leave and decide to follow her.

[thuganomics85]

Oh, Southside Serpents!  "OK, if you want to join our club, you have to pass initiation.  First, we will test your dog-sitting skills, because that clearly is the most important factor about being a serpent or, really, a human being in general.  Second, we need you to memorize a bunch of rules and then yell it to us like you're reenacting the "First rule of Flight Club!" scene from that film.  Third, you have to grab a knife from a glass with a rattlesnake in it.  Sure, it has no poison anymore, but he's still scary!  And then finally, we beat the shit out of you!  Just completely beat the shit out of you.  Even use brass-knuckles, which really should hospitalize you, if not straight up kill you, but if you can get up like it is no big thing, then congrats!  You are a Southside Serpent!!!"  I just love how cliched and cheesy all of this is.  They really want to make me fear this gang, but they're just such hilarious stereotypes!  

Definitely think Black Hooded guy is actually related to Betty somehow, after doing the whole "Put on this mask" thing, because I think he was going for some bizarre "See how similar we look" moment, so it will end up being that they have some kind of blood-relation (and on this show, it really could be anybody.)  Other then that, his grand plan is to now have her cut everyone that she outs from her life, which she has already done with Veronica and Jughead.  They keep saying that this guy is likely in his thirties or forties, but with a motivation like that, I'm questioning if he's graduated from middle school.

Nick St. Clair really looks like he came straight from an assembly line where network shows go to get their frat-boy rapist characters for all of their crime dramas. Him drugging and assaulting Cheryl might be the least surprising development yet.  Almost surprised he's still alive, because the way Veronica and the Pussycats (they live!) were going to town on him, I was waiting to hear a snap and one of them go "Uh.... I think we might have killed him!" at the end.

Almost felt bad that Archie was sent by Betty to break-up with Jughead for her, but then watching him hilariously loose his shit when he saw the Serpents and then drop the bombshell with the least amount of tact possible was all worth it.  Honestly, Betty, this is all on you.  You know Archie almost better then anyone else, and that is such an Archie move.

While I can buy Toni kissing Jughead, I think him returning it is out of character.  I doubt "Bughead" will be broken up for too long, but until then, I hope Vanessa Morgan stays away from all social media.  And maybe the internet in general.

Alice by be a hypocritical, selfish jerk, but Madchen Amick sure knows how to make an entrance!

Not sure who looked more out of place: Betty at the Jingle Jangle Bash (what kind of drugs is jingle jangle, because everyone seemed to recover pretty well?) or Fred at the Lodge's Evil Schmoozing and Dramatically Starring at Everyone Jam?

[PeekaBoo]

16 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

ETA: I'm not surprised the writers went there with Betty and Jughead because the minute the pairing got as popular as they did last season, it solidified that they would become THAT couple, i.e. the couple that constantly gets crap thrown at them, misunderstandings, breakups, etc. all to sell the great soulmate, love story of the pairing except all it does is annoy the viewers, shippers and non-shippers alike.

So of course Betty was going to be forced to break up with Jughead for some contrived reason that will send him running to the new girl who is part of his new and dangerous world which will only have Betty running to Archie or whatever. You knew it was coming. Again, I just think their fans might have been a little less bitter if the writers hadn't acted like they're on speed and race to it by Episode 5 of the season, all while there's been little payoff in their relationship. 

Yes yes yes. That's exactly what they've become and that is sooo extremley unfair... I do not think i can stand for that for ao very long. It's been done sooo many thats its sooo annoying...

11 minutes ago, galax-arena said:

Honestly, I'm not sure I'd enjoy this show half as much if it were less cliche/cheesy. Riverdale is such a dumb show and I love it! 

TBH, despite my comments in last episode's thread, I don't even actually want Jughead to die, because every cheesy teen show needs a popular character for me to flat out irrationally dislike. It's a staple! And poor Archie is just too boring to hate thoroughly. 

Shame on you wanting poor juggy dead, lol. I think that might've hurt a few but it seemed to be in a humorous note... 

You know archie, as much he's the main character in a way, he is so extendable... i mean what does he bring other than music and humping teachers and making gay porn? Lol... nah, I'm not liking archie all that much, he had a great start now in season 2 but meh, letting nick prounce around all over the place, not so cool... 

[WhosThatGirl]

Yup. I’m back to disliking Archie. His best episode was the first one of this season and now he’s back to being a jerk again.

I wonder if he’s even going to tell betty what he actually said to Jughead. Betty assumes he just said what she said to give them a little space so she can backtrack it little bit what Archie said was pretty much that Betty wanted to break up for weeks, so there will be no good way to back track that. 

I’m still angry about the whole situation actually. I know it’s ridiculous to get all worked up at a fictional tv couple- and a teen one at that!- but I’m really angry we got that beautiful scene in the diner and then we got that terrible scene where Archie is the one breaking up Betty and Jughead. It bothers me quite a lot. 

[sweetandsour]

Just read the whole thread so I hope I'm not repeating anything.

1. Re: too much happening at once and too quickly, I suspect this is in part due to the fact that the show got 22 episodes this year. Plotting out 13 episodes last year was a much different endeavor, and I'm not sure how long they'd been mapping that one out in advance. (Typical that a first season is a long-stewing brainchild and then you get so busy executing on that, by the time you get to a season 2, you have comparatively so much less time to pull together a comprehensive game plan.) Now with 9 more episodes than last year, the producers may have overestimated how many storylines they need to have and how to pace them.

2. One of my favorite Kevin Kellers so far is jingle jangle Kevin Keller, who couch-dances like he's a robot with attitude!

3. I found it a little odd that Betty told Archie about the Black Hood calling her. I guess she told him because the Black Hood didn't explicitly bring him up like he did others, but it would've only been a matter of time until Archie's on the chopping block. Also, this is a guy who's been going nutso all season about the Black Hood nearly killing his dad, so how did Betty know Archie would be able to control himself and not do stupid stuff upon finding out the Black Hood is communicating with Betty directly? I guess we're to think Archie has truly dialed it back and gotten sane after the fight climax and the Red Circle apologies, but this is Archie. Not the brightest bulb out there.

4. I know I'm not supposed to condone violence in any fashion, but I did really enjoy the girls kicking the shit out of Nick. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

5. The St Clairs "came up from New York." Are they trying to imply now that that Riverdale is NOT in New York state? I assume they meant it like the St Clairs "came up from New York [City]," but they keep playing it so ambiguous.

6. Five episodes in and "I miss hearing Archie's music," said no one, ever.

[Dee]

The one thing that this show nails is the slo-mo walk/dance montage to pop music.

From Cheryl's uber dramatic entrance at Jason's memorial, to Josie/Reggie/Veronica/Kevin grooving at Roving Eye, to the Pussycats strutting down the hallways of Riverdale High, to the Five Seasons Jingle Jangle Jam, to Alice sashaying down the red carpet, this show just nails it every time.

[wingster55]

Archie did pull a gun (yes, after the knife) but the Serpents did plan to retaliate by bringing their entire gang (or teenage part at least) to his house to beat him up. 

Plus known criminals (while may be not responsible for everything) aren't far from being thugs. 

[paulvdb]

17 hours ago, galax-arena said:

Honestly, I'm not sure I'd enjoy this show half as much if it were less cliche/cheesy. Riverdale is such a dumb show and I love it! 

TBH, despite my comments in last episode's thread, I don't even actually want Jughead to die, because every cheesy teen show needs a popular character for me to flat out irrationally dislike. It's a staple! And poor Archie is just too boring to hate thoroughly. 

 

11 hours ago, PeekaBoo said:

Yes yes yes. That's exactly what they've become and that is sooo extremley unfair... I do not think i can stand for that for ao very long. It's been done sooo many thats its sooo annoying...

Shame on you wanting poor juggy dead, lol. I think that might've hurt a few but it seemed to be in a humorous note... 

You know archie, as much he's the main character in a way, he is so extendable... i mean what does he bring other than music and humping teachers and making gay porn? Lol... nah, I'm not liking archie all that much, he had a great start now in season 2 but meh, letting nick prounce around all over the place, not so cool... 

Between Archie and Jughead the show really isn't doing well with the male characters for me. It's a good thing we have the girls. I like all of them, at least the ones that have had a decent amount of screentime (Betty, Veronica, Cheryl, Toni). I haven't seen enough of Josie and the Pussycats to decide if I like them. It's actually strange that it feels like Toni has had more screentime in a few episodes than Josie and the Pussycats who have been there from the beginning. They probably have had more screentime than Toni if you count the minutes that they were on screen, but a lot of that was them singing. There hasn't been a lot of them as actual characters outside that one episode when Josie's father visited.

[Dee]

It doesn't help that all the other younger male characters only exist to cause angst for Archie and Jughead.

[starri]

The tension in the scene where Betty was alone (?) in the abandoned house was enough that I actually jumped at one point.  Good directing.

[paulvdb]

I thought BH was trying to set her up. I kept expecting that the sheriff would walk in while Betty was wearing the mask and arrest her for being BH.

[Bugs Meany]

44 minutes ago, paulvdb said:

I thought BH was trying to set her up. I kept expecting that the sheriff would walk in while Betty was wearing the mask and arrest her for being BH.

I thought that too, but then Archie and Fred would immediately exonerate her.

[MaggieG]

Wow, Alice's entrance gave me life! That was awesome. I'm really loving this show, darkness and cheesyness and everything else.

Note to self: Never send Archie to break up with anyone! Betty told him to be gentle and he stomped all over poor Juggy's heart. I know it was becasue of the serpents but still.

I like how the episode showed us Betty's struggle with the BH by her ponytail. It was up in the beggining, then it was lower when she met Jug at Pop's, followed by her hair being all the way down when she went to the abandoned house.

[Lady Calypso]

This season is truly darker than last season. I do think they need a little more lightness at some point to balance out the darkness, or else people won't want to keep watching depressing episode after depressing episode. Nobody is having a good time, so they need something more to work with.

Betty is still, by far, my favourite character on this show. Even when she's doing the wrong thing by not telling anyone but Archie and giving into the Black Hood's demands, I get why and I sympathize with her. Lili Reinhart is also doing such an amazing job. This episode was definitely her best episode, by far. Her devastation and spiral throughout the episode was riveting to watch. When Betty has her hair down half the episode, you know there's something up. I totally loved seeing her ponytail get looser and looser throughout the episode. That was a nice subtle way of showing Betty's meltdown. How Jughead didn't notice is beyond me.

I loved the Betty/Archie friendship moments. I worried when the showrunners talked about more Betty/Archie scenes, but they felt like genuine friends, no romantic undertones, and it was nice to see that friendship be shown onscreen after being ignored much of last season. I liked Archie's role this episode. I even think he was going to be softer with Jughead about the breakup, but seeing the Serpents and finding out Jughead was becoming one of them snapped something in Archie...even though he really did start it all. I get that Jughead/Archie will probably also have a rocky relationship this season.

Hearing Betty tear down Veronica like that was rough, but I was glad that Veronica even recognized that it wasn't like Betty to do that. Veronica has every right to be pissed, but I'm hoping that she also doesn't just push her away like Betty pushed her. 

Goddamn, Nick is attractive, but his character is the worst. Drugging and almost raping Cheryl, all because Veronica rejected him? Also, how old is this guy? In and out of rehab, doing drugs, and I think they mentioned him having some sort of job? Also, was Veronica then doing coke and other drugs at 14 and 15? That's dark. It was nice to see the Pussycats do something, even with no lines. But seriously, if they're not going to use the Pussycats for a storyline, why include them in the series at all? If they were just wasting them for the last two seasons, they should have just been left out altogether.

I will say that I can't blame Betty for sending out that mugshot because Alice's obsession with hating Jughead is odd after last season's timid acceptance of him, but I loved her entrance to the SoDale party. 

So, the Bughead breakup was sad, especially since they had such a powerful moment in the diner, one that gave me season 1 vibes. Since this season started, the couple hasn't had as much of that spark because they've been separated and they've never had just a happy moment with the two of them. Jughead's been somewhat irritating with him clearly choosing the Serpents over Betty since episode 2. There's just been a disconnect with Jughead this season with the Jughead we saw last season. It's why I liked when we got the diner scene. We got a glimpse of season 1 Jughead again, the one that wanted to be the outsider, choosing neither side except his own happiness and comfort.

I feel so bad for Vanessa Morgan. None of this is her fault, but I can only imagine what she's getting over social media. Toni moving in on Jughead the moment he tells her that him and Betty broke up was cold. Sure, she didn't make a move while he was taken, but she only waited two seconds until he confirmed that he was single to kiss him. And what disappointed me was Jughead not pulling away. He may be in an emotional place right now, but it didn't sit right with me. He has no idea what's going on with Betty because he's so distracted with the Serpents, so it sucks. 

[PeekaBoo]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

This season is truly darker than last season. I do think they need a little more lightness at some point to balance out the darkness, or else people won't want to keep watching depressing episode after depressing episode. Nobody is having a good time, so they need something more to work with.

Betty is still, by far, my favourite character on this show. Even when she's doing the wrong thing by not telling anyone but Archie and giving into the Black Hood's demands, I get why and I sympathize with her. Lili Reinhart is also doing such an amazing job. This episode was definitely her best episode, by far. Her devastation and spiral throughout the episode was riveting to watch. When Betty has her hair down half the episode, you know there's something up. I totally loved seeing her ponytail get looser and looser throughout the episode. That was a nice subtle way of showing Betty's meltdown. How Jughead didn't notice is beyond me.

I loved the Betty/Archie friendship moments. I worried when the showrunners talked about more Betty/Archie scenes, but they felt like genuine friends, no romantic undertones, and it was nice to see that friendship be shown onscreen after being ignored much of last season. I liked Archie's role this episode. I even think he was going to be softer with Jughead about the breakup, but seeing the Serpents and finding out Jughead was becoming one of them snapped something in Archie...even though he really did start it all. I get that Jughead/Archie will probably also have a rocky relationship this season.

Hearing Betty tear down Veronica like that was rough, but I was glad that Veronica even recognized that it wasn't like Betty to do that. Veronica has every right to be pissed, but I'm hoping that she also doesn't just push her away like Betty pushed her. 

Goddamn, Nick is attractive, but his character is the worst. Drugging and almost raping Cheryl, all because Veronica rejected him? Also, how old is this guy? In and out of rehab, doing drugs, and I think they mentioned him having some sort of job? Also, was Veronica then doing coke and other drugs at 14 and 15? That's dark. It was nice to see the Pussycats do something, even with no lines. But seriously, if they're not going to use the Pussycats for a storyline, why include them in the series at all? If they were just wasting them for the last two seasons, they should have just been left out altogether.

I will say that I can't blame Betty for sending out that mugshot because Alice's obsession with hating Jughead is odd after last season's timid acceptance of him, but I loved her entrance to the SoDale party. 

So, the Bughead breakup was sad, especially since they had such a powerful moment in the diner, one that gave me season 1 vibes. Since this season started, the couple hasn't had as much of that spark because they've been separated and they've never had just a happy moment with the two of them. Jughead's been somewhat irritating with him clearly choosing the Serpents over Betty since episode 2. There's just been a disconnect with Jughead this season with the Jughead we saw last season. It's why I liked when we got the diner scene. We got a glimpse of season 1 Jughead again, the one that wanted to be the outsider, choosing neither side except his own happiness and comfort.

I feel so bad for Vanessa Morgan. None of this is her fault, but I can only imagine what she's getting over social media. Toni moving in on Jughead the moment he tells her that him and Betty broke up was cold. Sure, she didn't make a move while he was taken, but she only waited two seconds until he confirmed that he was single to kiss him. And what disappointed me was Jughead not pulling away. He may be in an emotional place right now, but it didn't sit right with me. He has no idea what's going on with Betty because he's so distracted with the Serpents, so it sucks. 

Well said.

And you keep forgetting that these kids are still going to school!

Nah, I understand the darkness and all, we've been warned so many times now and from a recent RAS interview, it doesn't seem to get any lighter anytime soon...

Yes, the Barchie friendship scenes are nice and we get a glimpse of how things used to be between the two. I'm still hoping Archie will stick by her side and help her with BH but I am very curious as to what he's going to do with all the info he has on bughead. Is he going to help them and spill the secrets? Is he going to keep everything for himself and drag Betty into an unwilling triangle (meaning stringing her along again), is he going to be piseed off at Jug for getting into the serpents that he's deliberately going to put rocks on the road?

I get the feeling that privileged rich kids from big cities are usually more exposed to like sex, drugs and rock n roll lifestyle from a young age so in a sense it wouldn't surprise me that Veronica did have a similar past... Didn't she say that she was sleeping around when she was younger in order to get daddy's approval last season? Meh...  

With the fast pacing, I would like to think that Betty will find out about Toni/Jug by next episode (thus encouraging her spiraling down). I still have mixed reviews about the kiss, it seems definitely OOC from jug's part and I haven't seen Toni show a definite interest in him so far... Damn the fast pacing, i'm worried about next ep, will we find them in bed already? I sort of understand the 180 on jug, like you've specified already. I think he thought he could keep a leg on each side and remained "true" to himself as being to loner and toughen it out but I think the beating in ep2 changed everything... And then he learned about FP being the mediator and then Archie eagerly fed his insecurities with Betty and he went "fuck that, we were doomed from the beginning, she belongs with Archie, i'm a serpent, this IS romeo + Juliet, I don't have anyone" and then Toni was there so boom! voila, a moment of weakness + heartbreak, hence the damn kiss... It's its own spiraling down.... But like I said already, Toni's got nuthin' on bughead.... I will expect a reconciliation eventually, goddamn RAS better provide that, but maybe half-season, xmas ep?

Yes, he's seriously distracted by the Serpent thing and his dad and the shooting that he doesn't notice what Betty is going through... I mean, if he thought Betty was doing fine the last time they were together at the beginning of the episode then i'm sorry, you're just too damn busy, too much stuff going on...

I wonder  how jug's going to react when he learns what betty's been going through.... (evil grin).

[Chick2Chic]

53 minutes ago, PeekaBoo said:

But like I said already, Toni's got nuthin' on bughead.

I don't think it's a contest.

I'm neutral on Bughead and I'm fine with with Toni. I'm not sure why there's attempt to cast Toni in a nefarious light for kissing Jughead. Toni had absolutely nothing to do with why Betty & Jughead broke up. Toni and Jughead are friendly, they're teens, and stuff like that happens all the time at that age especially in stressful/emotional moments. IMO, it's not a big deal. Now if there was cheating or actively malicious behavior on Toni's side to break them up, then I could see she was being lambasted for being an actively insidious interloper. That's not the case, though. Not even a little bit. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Chick2Chic
changed it up

[Enginerd]

Betty needs to consider that BH has probably bugged her phone and house, and probably other people, too. She needs to head to the local BuyMore and buy a couple burner phones for herself and Archie, at the very least, and not give out the number and not use it indoors or near other people or too close to her bag or regular phone or whatever. Heck, if I were her, I'd start changing clothes in the dark, figuring the BH might have a hidden camera somewhere. Poor girl; you could really see how she was crumbling and terrified to not comply and upset at having to betray her friends. And that was without the extra misery of being the only sober person at a terrible party and having her parents and the sheriff doubt her.

Sweetie Pie, dude...if joining your little buddy club requires submitting to being beaten...with brass knuckles, no less...you are a thug. Thug thug thug. So stop objecting to being called thugs. Normal non-thug people just develop relationships with people they like or with whom they share objectives and become bonded WITHOUT beating each other up or demanding that they be willing to die. Imagine that.

My current theory is that the older Serpent guy, the haggard-looking one with the nasty hair situation, is the father of Alice's son.

It's absurd that the Pussycats were significant characters in several scenes yet had no speaking lines.

[dwmckim]

On 11/8/2017 at 9:10 PM, AdorkableSars said:

 The juxtaposition of a catchy and upbeat song with all of those awful things (Cheryl being drugged and nearly assaulted, Jughead getting the shit beat out of him, Betty falling apart...) was quite jarring, which completely worked for an episode like this.

 

Anticipating a fan edit of the same visuals done instead to "Lollipop"

On 11/8/2017 at 6:30 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah Jughead and Toni’s Kiss was out of character for Jughead.

Jughead kissing ANYONE is actually "out of character"

On 11/8/2017 at 8:42 PM, truthaboutluv said:

The whole thing seems incredibly hockey and lame

Loving that typo so much that this is now going to be an actual expression i plan on using!

On 11/8/2017 at 9:46 PM, Dee said:

Madchen Amick is having the time of her life. 

I swear it's the truth

[dwmckim]

On 11/9/2017 at 9:11 AM, Chick2Chic said:

 I guess I should be thankful RAS has Toni speak at all in her scenes and not sing or be just an animate background prop.

That will probably happen in the near future.  Not just because historically that's how things tend to happen - but also that would make her very much like ComicsToni - often used as a silent background/extra in scenes or on covers.

[dwmckim]

A heavily recurring comment in this thread is the show right now is too dark without enough lightness/humor to balance it out.  Given how much they've always acknowledged all along they held Twin Peaks as a major inspiration, they need to remember that aspect of the show - they were very very dark but each episode was also filled with lots of zany humor and of all levels.  Get in touch with that!  Keep in mind the source material!  Add some more slapstick.  Set the pies flying!  

Speaking of Riverdale/Twin Peaks...

On 11/9/2017 at 10:14 AM, Snookums said:

 

So, I know there's been some speculation that Betty is the Black Hood, but I don't see how. The original Fred shooting took place before any of this stuff and it was clearly a man. Grundy was also killed by the same man, green eyes and all, and a man shot Moose and Midge. There's no way Betty was successfully pulling that off unless she's the unheralded World's Greatest Master Of Disguise. 

 

Betty could be Riverdale's Tojamura!

Edited November 10, 2017 by dwmckim

[phoenics]

I still love this show.

Cole Sprouse's Jughead is a national treasure and must be protected at all costs.  Betty - *sigh*.  I love Bughead - this episode and their breakup hurt a lot.  I saw it coming from the moment Jughead wasn't telling her about the Serpent stuff and when she didn't just tell him about the BH stalking her.  And when she turned to Archie - I knew that would be problematic.  Pretty sure we'll see Barchie or whatever soon - but that simply won't hold a candle to Bughead.  It's kinda shocking - but Bughead is literally the Chair version of Riverdale - complete shock and surprising coupling that just draws you in.  And the Romeo/Juliet angle?  I buy it.  I did feel like the forced breakup was a bit like the one from Roswell, where Liz was forced to break up with Max and push him toward Tess to save the planet.  This is a little less dramatic, but Betty did do this to save Jughead.  And Betty's broken tears the moment she realized BH was forcing her to cut Jughead off... man.  That was so difficult to watch.  My worry is that things will progress too far and Bughead won't be able to find their way back until things are irrevocably broken and the show breaks their chemistry.  That's kinda what happened on Roswell and it was a true shame.  It took a very long time for them to get it back and honestly I'm not sure they ever really did.

Cole Sprouse though.  Whew.  How old is he?  I'm sure he's not old enough for me to be so drawn to him and his scenes!  

I don't blame him for kissing Toni back.  He's lost his dad, then his home, his school, and then he lost Archie and Betty... and the only reason he was trying to be with the Serpents was to broker a peace between both sides - but the Northside just abandoned him.  I felt all of that in the tortured look he gave Archie as he ranted at him... and I knew that after he got beat down in the final initiation, he would find himself alone with Toni.  Total cliche.

I'm also pretty sure he's going to wake up next to her in the next episode.  Let's just hope no baby comes out of this.

This season is a bit darker than last season, but I didn't notice that until people here said it.  I just realized I wasn't as desperate to see new episodes as in the first season when I watched 5 in a row (I didn't start out watching the show when it premiered).  But I still love it.  I hope they find a better dark/light balance soon.

I am driven to know - WHO is the BH?  It's got to be someone related to Betty in a dark way... some deep family secret - that's Riverdale 101...

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I still love this show.

Cole Sprouse's Jughead is a national treasure and must be protected at all costs.  Betty - *sigh*.  I love Bughead - this episode and their breakup hurt a lot.  I saw it coming from the moment Jughead wasn't telling her about the Serpent stuff and when she didn't just tell him about the BH stalking her.  And when she turned to Archie - I knew that would be problematic.  Pretty sure we'll see Barchie or whatever soon - but that simply won't hold a candle to Bughead.  It's kinda shocking - but Bughead is literally the Chair version of Riverdale - complete shock and surprising coupling that just draws you in.  And the Romeo/Juliet angle?  I buy it.  I did feel like the forced breakup was a bit like the one from Roswell, where Liz was forced to break up with Max and push him toward Tess to save the planet.  This is a little less dramatic, but Betty did do this to save Jughead.  And Betty's broken tears the moment she realized BH was forcing her to cut Jughead off... man.  That was so difficult to watch.  My worry is that things will progress too far and Bughead won't be able to find their way back until things are irrevocably broken and the show breaks their chemistry.  That's kinda what happened on Roswell and it was a true shame.  It took a very long time for them to get it back and honestly I'm not sure they ever really did.

Cole Sprouse though.  Whew.  How old is he?  I'm sure he's not old enough for me to be so drawn to him and his scenes!  

I don't blame him for kissing Toni back.  He's lost his dad, then his home, his school, and then he lost Archie and Betty... and the only reason he was trying to be with the Serpents was to broker a peace between both sides - but the Northside just abandoned him.  I felt all of that in the tortured look he gave Archie as he ranted at him... and I knew that after he got beat down in the final initiation, he would find himself alone with Toni.  Total cliche.

I'm also pretty sure he's going to wake up next to her in the next episode.  Let's just hope no baby comes out of this.

This season is a bit darker than last season, but I didn't notice that until people here said it.  I just realized I wasn't as desperate to see new episodes as in the first season when I watched 5 in a row (I didn't start out watching the show when it premiered).  But I still love it.  I hope they find a better dark/light balance soon.

I am driven to know - WHO is the BH?  It's got to be someone related to Betty in a dark way... some deep family secret - that's Riverdale 101...

Ugh. I hope HOPE HOPE that the next scene isn’t Jughead and Toni waking up together. That would make me quit the show actually and maybe that sounds extreme but I’ll explain why I feel this way. For real. Bughead as a couple has gotten real shifty treatment this season. Aside from the second episode, they have had hardly any screen time as a couple together. While Archie and Veronica got to have all sexy fun times Betty and Jughead were regulated to small kisses if any. And then Toni who Yes wasn’t directly the enforcer to breaking uP Bughead she sure as hell moved in on him real fast and she was never nice to Betty so.. I hope they don’t do that scene it would really turn me off the show.

[patchwork]

I think if we do see Jughead and Toni waking up together it's going to be a remorseful morning after.

I have wondered if Toni has been given orders to be nice to Jughead and has caught feelings along the way. It's such a waste for her to just be a speedbump for Betty and Jughead, maybe she working with the lawyer to get FB's son to join the Serpents to make sure FB stays loyal.

If Jughead is a Serpent by blood then is Betty and Polly or does the fact Alice's obviously left the gang void that?

Sadly Bughead's break up has been on the cards since episode two when he started lying to her.  

I like the Pretty Little Liars thing they did with Betty this ep and hope they keep it up for a while. I have my problems with that show but the cat and mouse game between the girls and A kept dragging me back in. Betty's actress is great and I was well and truly creeped out by the abandoned house scenes. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by patchwork

[mariekristen]

On 11/8/2017 at 9:01 PM, opus said:

I always hated that Lollipop song....

It totally gives off an eery vibe... happy songs used in scary/creepy moments have always been the worst for me.

Besides that, I'm kind of surprised Betty has actually gone along with the Black Hood. Before that last phone call (where he said he was watching her), she could've easily lied and said that she did that actions but actually didn't. But I guess that doesn't make good TV. Plus, she did not have to go as far as she did with Veronica. It almost makes it seem like she agrees with/feels the same way as the Black Hood sometimes. Also, now that she gave up Nick's name, what does that mean again? Is he just going to be exposed, or will he be killed? Why can't they just bring him/the situation to the police station? Why does everything have to be so dramatic?

I've heard that people think the Black Hood is Betty's long lost brother but could he still be if he's threatening to kill their sister? I don't know, but it's not like I have any better guesses.

I'm actually surprised they did the break up AND the kiss in one episode... you would think they would draw that anti-Bughead drama out! 

I also don't really get was Jughead is doing on his own... yeah, I get the whole 'stop the serpents' thing, but what does he do once it's stopped? Just stay a peaceful serpent? Seems dumb.

Also thank god this show didn't let Veronica (or Cheryl) get raped - that would be A BIT much even for them. I did like how it played out the Cheryl/Veronica/Pussy Cats friendship though, plus it gave them all a few extra lines!

[phoenics]

17 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Ugh. I hope HOPE HOPE that the next scene isn’t Jughead and Toni waking up together. That would make me quit the show actually and maybe that sounds extreme but I’ll explain why I feel this way. For real. Bughead as a couple has gotten real shifty treatment this season. Aside from the second episode, they have had hardly any screen time as a couple together. While Archie and Veronica got to have all sexy fun times Betty and Jughead were regulated to small kisses if any. And then Toni who Yes wasn’t directly the enforcer to breaking uP Bughead she sure as hell moved in on him real fast and she was never nice to Betty so.. I hope they don’t do that scene it would really turn me off the show.

No I feel you - I don't just watch this show for Bughead, but they are a huge draw for me... so I totally get it.  I'd be very upset if Jug and Toni sleep together, but I am also realistic enough to see it coming.  Poor Betty thinks that she can just walk this back.  She won't be able to - it will be too late.  She's basically falling on her own sword of martyrdom and that's admirable but I also hate it because just like Liz on Roswell, she couldn't be honest either because of the catastrophic outcomes.  Liz couldn't tell Max about what she did and why because the world would literally end and Betty can't tell Jug because if she did she'd be signing his death warrant.  I felt her fear and pain.  I get it.

But I've been around long enough with shows like this - usually things take a horrible turn and there is no real going back, which is why I think Jug will totally sleep with Toni - and if he doesn't now, he will eventually - especially if he's triggered by Betty and Archie kissing or something crazy later on... 

It's a shame though - because Bughead was just so pure and I also agree that they've gotten short shrift this season - hardly any good moments together - last season they were about to make love and then poof.  I can't tell if they got more popular than the show intended - they totally overshadowed KJ Apa's Archie and Veronica.  Left them in the dust.  And I'm sure the writers were originally going to do a Betty/Archie pairing - they'd have to - but I cannot see them having the same weight and OMG soulmates thing that Bughead does.  Plus Cole Sprouse just buries KJ Apa.  Cole is practically leading this show - S1 shifted a lot of narrative weight from Archie onto Jug - and this season so far appears to be trying to give KJ back more of his leading man status, even though he just cannot carry this show.

But Cole can.

I do think the show knows they have gold with Bughead - the question is whether or not they push too hard and saddle the couple with too much weight.  I don't feel like they gave us enough Bughead to warrant this - and I'm also afraid the show doesn't see that Bughead should be endgame either.  They might just be trying to kill it.  I think that's nuts, but these shows... meh.  I just wish they hadn't done Bughead at all then if all they will do is kill it.

[WhosThatGirl]

15 minutes ago, phoenics said:

No I feel you - I don't just watch this show for Bughead, but they are a huge draw for me... so I totally get it.  I'd be very upset if Jug and Toni sleep together, but I am also realistic enough to see it coming.  Poor Betty thinks that she can just walk this back.  She won't be able to - it will be too late.  She's basically falling on her own sword of martyrdom and that's admirable but I also hate it because just like Liz on Roswell, she couldn't be honest either because of the catastrophic outcomes.  Liz couldn't tell Max about what she did and why because the world would literally end and Betty can't tell Jug because if she did she'd be signing his death warrant.  I felt her fear and pain.  I get it.

But I've been around long enough with shows like this - usually things take a horrible turn and there is no real going back, which is why I think Jug will totally sleep with Toni - and if he doesn't now, he will eventually - especially if he's triggered by Betty and Archie kissing or something crazy later on... 

It's a shame though - because Bughead was just so pure and I also agree that they've gotten short shrift this season - hardly any good moments together - last season they were about to make love and then poof.  I can't tell if they got more popular than the show intended - they totally overshadowed KJ Apa's Archie and Veronica.  Left them in the dust.  And I'm sure the writers were originally going to do a Betty/Archie pairing - they'd have to - but I cannot see them having the same weight and OMG soulmates thing that Bughead does.  Plus Cole Sprouse just buries KJ Apa.  Cole is practically leading this show - S1 shifted a lot of narrative weight from Archie onto Jug - and this season so far appears to be trying to give KJ back more of his leading man status, even though he just cannot carry this show.

But Cole can.

I do think the show knows they have gold with Bughead - the question is whether or not they push too hard and saddle the couple with too much weight.  I don't feel like they gave us enough Bughead to warrant this - and I'm also afraid the show doesn't see that Bughead should be endgame either.  They might just be trying to kill it.  I think that's nuts, but these shows... meh.  I just wish they hadn't done Bughead at all then if all they will do is kill it.

This is everything I feel and then some. And yes your last sentence is everything to me: now that they did Bughead, every other pairing they put Betty and Jughead into isn’t going to work for me. It just isn’t.

I think they wanted Bughead to be a short term thing. I don’t think hey expected them to have many fans but the pairing did. And I think that now the showrunners don’t know what to do.

But I’ll more than 98% be done should Jugheads scene be him waking up next to Toni or us finding about them sleeping together.

And as for an archie Betty thing which I know is kind of inevitable I don’t really want to watch a repeat of the first couple episodes of last season of Betty-Archie-Veronica and whatever they plan to do with Jughead after that. 

I was really wishful thinking that perhaps this wasn’t the end for Bughead and that the ptb think they are Endgame too and they should be, but now.. I don’t think they are. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, WhosThatGirl said:

This is everything I feel and then some. And yes your last sentence is everything to me: now that they did Bughead, every other pairing they put Betty and Jughead into isn’t going to work for me. It just isn’t.

I think they wanted Bughead to be a short term thing. I don’t think hey expected them to have many fans but the pairing did. And I think that now the showrunners don’t know what to do.

But I’ll more than 98% be done. I don’t really want to watch a repeat of the first couple episodes of last season of Betty-Archie-Veronica and whatever they plan to do with Jughead after that. 

Well - I always thought the perpetual triangle with Veronica/Archie/Betty was just tired - I hated the comics because of it...  hell maybe they based Ridge Forrester on The Bold and the Beautiful after Archie because he was the king of waffling back and forth between two women... 

But on this show I had some small hope that they'd go in a different direction and give us Betty with someone else other than Archie and Jughead being paired with her was inspired.  Maybe I need to look up how this show did chemistry testing - if they chem tested Lili and Cole and any of that helped Lilli get her role, then maybe they don't mean it to be short term... but who knows.  

I think shows like this need two main couples to work.  Kinda yin and yang couples... and Jughead vs Varchie are that.  And the Romeo/Juliet pairing they've created with Betty and Jug is kinda intoxicating... I'm hoping that the fact that Betty mentioned Romeo and Juliet is enough to illustrate the show's investment in them.

[WhosThatGirl]

I’m still holding out hope. I really am.  I don’t want to give up on the show but it seems like this season they are throwing out cliches left and right here and it’s real disappointing.

[secnarf]

6 hours ago, mariekristen said:

I've heard that people think the Black Hood is Betty's long lost brother but could he still be if he's threatening to kill their sister? I don't know, but it's not like I have any better guesses.

Yes. Whether or not he is Betty's brother (and I think he is), he's certainly not mentally stable. He could feel that Polly's sins have brought shame on the family or something. Or he could be bluffing, knowing it's the threat most likely to keep Betty in line.

I also think when he told Betty she would recognize his face, he didn't necessarily mean that literally. He could have meant that she would recognize their familial resemblance or something along those lines.

[Dee]

When did Bughead graduate from casually dating to love of each others lives?

[Thundercatmary]

58 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

I don't think we have to worry about Jughead and Betty getting back together. The showrunners want the ratings and media buzz to remain strong, and this pairing has been their golden goose. As much as I enjoy other characters and storylines, and I love how the show is full of talented and/or charismatic beautiful actors, "Bughead" has catapulted the show into pop culture status. Not even going to debate this, because all you have to do is look at the industry articles and social media hits.

So while those effen scenes crushed my fangirl heart, I'm not shocked about the turn of events. What better way to make their fans yearn and yell for more than by having them break up due to forces beyond their control and not because they no longer love each other? Very 80s soapy and I'm here for it, because Lili and Cole have played it very well. I'm looking forward to them finding their way back to each other. However, as others have pointed out, the showrunners have to be careful they don't mess with the chemistry when they write these obstacles into their storyline. 

I also get the feeling Toni may not have been as interested in Jughead as it initially looked and wouldn't be surprised if she was assigned to "control" Jughead and distance him further from his Northside life. I started to think that when she would make negative comments to and about Betty and about his Northside friends, like she was deliberately trying to push his buttons. By "being there" for him, she would earn his trust as a friend or girlfriend, depending on what her Serpent assignment is. And maybe she caught or catches feelings or maybe she genuinely begins to feel badly about what she's doing. I think it would be a great way to save the character from the wrath of the Bughead shippers. I also think there is more to Toni's story than just some Bughead interloper. 

And while I too yelled WTF, it didn't strike me as out of character or heinous that Jughead would respond to the kiss given that he -- 1) feels completely alone with his mother and sister away, father in jail, and girlfriend and best friend seemingly dumping him; 2) thinks he just lost the love of his life via the mouth of one of his insecurities when it comes to Betty (Archie) and because of his other insecurity (not being good enough); and 3) was probably on an incredible adrenaline rush having gone through that physically violent initiation. It will definitely be interesting to see what his response and the aftermath will be on the next episode.

Oh and after this initiation, I'm completely off the Serpent train. I found what they did to Jughead completely vile. Fuck that "family" bullshit Toni is spouting, unless your idea of family is your parents and siblings beating the shit out of you as a sign of loyalty. I don't even want to think about what your initiation is as a girl/woman. Betty, Archie, Fred, etc. had every right to be concerned about the Serpent's influence on Jughead's life, and I hope that fact is not lost in this storyline and they try to romanticize the gang beating instead.

I really hope they don't keep Betty and Jug apart for to long, the split seems very artificial imo and i'm not looking forward to seeing them both in pain. They have really great scenes together and I totally but into the fact that they love each other even if they are young.  My sister met her husband when she was a sophmore in high school and they've been married 12 years now. 

I really wanted to like Toni but honestly she annoyed me from the start and her swooping in on Jug the second (literally) she finds he's single was a step to far for me, not saying what she did was wrong necessarily just the last straw for me personally.  Ofc this is nothing against the actress and is about the character alone.

Also I realize all Betty's friends have their own stuff happening but it would be nice if any of them took notice of her apparent spiral, I mean she had to tell Archie, maybe we will see this in an upcoming episode. 

Loved the scene with the girls giving that beat down, I don't condone violence but I saw it more as self defense.

Veronica started out in season 1 as one of my fave characters and I still like her, but I feel like a little of what Betty said to her rings true, even if Betty herself didn't mean it.  Like in a strange way the writers acknowledging some missteps with her writing. For me it seems like a lot of Veronica is all told to us but not shown, I would just like less of Veronica telling us stories of her past and more showing us now who she is, if that makes any sense. 

Poor Jug is going through so much and I think he's doing his best.  Found a lot of that Serpent stuff to be funny tbh, except that beat down at the end though I wasn't surprised as it's pretty common in gangs I believe.  Also I've heard it said once a Serpent always a Serpent but that's not true because Alice got out.

Lastly I was blown away my Lili and her acting this episode, I always thought she was talented but this episode was just another level.  She was really good at showing Betty's spiral and devastation etc, I wasn't surprised to read that Lili likes to watch herself because she studies her expressions to make sure they come across how she intends them to or something along those lines. 

[PeekaBoo]

13 hours ago, phoenics said:

No I feel you - I don't just watch this show for Bughead, but they are a huge draw for me... so I totally get it.  I'd be very upset if Jug and Toni sleep together, but I am also realistic enough to see it coming.  Poor Betty thinks that she can just walk this back.  She won't be able to - it will be too late.  She's basically falling on her own sword of martyrdom and that's admirable but I also hate it because just like Liz on Roswell, she couldn't be honest either because of the catastrophic outcomes.  Liz couldn't tell Max about what she did and why because the world would literally end and Betty can't tell Jug because if she did she'd be signing his death warrant.  I felt her fear and pain.  I get it.

I can understand TPTB and RAS to drag Bughead on and on until they culminate to ultimate reunion but I will not be able to go through several seasons of the "I love you but I can't be with you and it really hurts to be away from you"-type gazes.... Bah.... (reminds me of Dark Angel - yes, I  still remember that show).

13 hours ago, phoenics said:

Plus Cole Sprouse just buries KJ Apa.  Cole is practically leading this show - S1 shifted a lot of narrative weight from Archie onto Jug - and this season so far appears to be trying to give KJ back more of his leading man status, even though he just cannot carry this show.

This is very true. I think Betty and Jughead are literally dominating the show (As are the actors), out of everyone, they are also the ones with the better storylines/dramas/conflicts and I think most of the fans are very favourable towards their struggles. Veronica is getting there (if only they accorded even more storyline to the Lodges scrupules and what nots) but Archie... I do feel bad for ARchie because the whole damn universe is -because- of him but still the only thing we get is a pack of muscles and his music. Yeah, I thought the whole shooting thing would have made him tougher (and he has) but the whole red circle thing was just a bitt too laughable and unbelievable. NExt episode seems to bring him back up there and for his own sake, I hope it just continues... Archie deserves to be used better instead of just being a potential rival to bughead or being Veronica's beau. If they had for example brought in the Over the Edge storyline from the comics, that could be some nice drama for Archie. I won't say KJ was badly cast  because he's doing a great job but maybe they should not have chosen such a well-known  handsome young actor to play a tortured kid that's only seeking for acceptance + belonging, it just creates an imbalance that is very obvious to see...

13 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

This is everything I feel and then some. And yes your last sentence is everything to me: now that they did Bughead, every other pairing they put Betty and Jughead into isn’t going to work for me. It just isn’t.

I think they wanted Bughead to be a short term thing. I don’t think hey expected them to have many fans but the pairing did. And I think that now the showrunners don’t know what to do.

But I’ll more than 98% be done should Jugheads scene be him waking up next to Toni or us finding about them sleeping together.

And as for an archie Betty thing which I know is kind of inevitable I don’t really want to watch a repeat of the first couple episodes of last season of Betty-Archie-Veronica and whatever they plan to do with Jughead after that. 

I was really wishful thinking that perhaps this wasn’t the end for Bughead and that the ptb think they are Endgame too and they should be, but now.. I don’t think they are. 

 

13 hours ago, phoenics said:

Well - I always thought the perpetual triangle with Veronica/Archie/Betty was just tired - I hated the comics because of it...  hell maybe they based Ridge Forrester on The Bold and the Beautiful after Archie because he was the king of waffling back and forth between two women... 

But on this show I had some small hope that they'd go in a different direction and give us Betty with someone else other than Archie and Jughead being paired with her was inspired.  Maybe I need to look up how this show did chemistry testing - if they chem tested Lili and Cole and any of that helped Lilli get her role, then maybe they don't mean it to be short term... but who knows.  

I think shows like this need two main couples to work.  Kinda yin and yang couples... and Jughead vs Varchie are that.  And the Romeo/Juliet pairing they've created with Betty and Jug is kinda intoxicating... I'm hoping that the fact that Betty mentioned Romeo and Juliet is enough to illustrate the show's investment in them.

When they first mentioned romeo + Juliet, I always figured they meant in Polly and Jason, now I'm realizing how its about Bughead and it is powerful, it's tragic and cringy almost. Way to add Ridge Forrester in there lol!!! He's the ultimate Archie lol!!!

 

4 hours ago, Sonoma said:

I don't think we have to worry about Jughead and Betty getting back together. The showrunners want the ratings and media buzz to remain strong, and this pairing has been their golden goose. As much as I enjoy other characters and storylines, and I love how the show is full of talented and/or charismatic beautiful actors, "Bughead" has catapulted the show into pop culture status. Not even going to debate this because all you have to do is look at the industry articles and social media hits.

So while those effen scenes crushed my fangirl heart, I'm not shocked about the turn of events. What better way to make their fans yearn and yell for more than by having them break up due to forces beyond their control and not because they no longer love each other? Very 80s soapy and I'm here for it, because Lili and Cole have played it very well. I'm looking forward to them finding their way back to each other. However, as others have pointed out, the showrunners have to be careful they don't mess with the chemistry when they write these obstacles into their storyline. 

I also get the feeling Toni may not have been as interested in Jughead as it initially looked and wouldn't be surprised if she was assigned to "control" Jughead and distance him further from his Northside life. I started to think that when she would make negative comments to and about Betty and about his Northside friends, like she was deliberately trying to push his buttons. By "being there" for him, she would earn his trust as a friend or girlfriend, depending on what her Serpent assignment is. And maybe she caught or catches feelings or maybe she genuinely begins to feel badly about what she's doing. I think it would be a great way to save the character from the wrath of the Bughead shippers. I also think there is more to Toni's story than just some Bughead interloper. 

Oh and after this initiation, I'm completely off the Serpent train. I found what they did to Jughead completely vile. Fuck that "family" bullshit Toni is spouting, unless your idea of family is your parents and siblings beating the shit out of you as a sign of loyalty. I don't even want to think about what your initiation is as a girl/woman. Betty, Archie, Fred, etc. had every right to be concerned about the Serpent's influence on Jughead's life, and I hope that fact is not lost in this storyline and they try to romanticize the gang beating instead.

I also think they will get back together albeit it'll be until some new drama comes along (well, duh) and by that I mean, sharing a common brother or falice...

As much as I hate the toni jug hookup, i'm not disliking toni yet! We still are not aware of her intentions... I do nto get the feeling her interest is genuine, theres some other plot behind there, aybe related to that peaobdy chick or the good old "I have to get you into the serpents so I can save my family member/bf/gf from getting killed because of a debt"-ploy... Typical cliché. I don't think she said "Juggie" just because it suddenly popped into her head to put it that way. THey might wake up in bed together next ep and well, just have to swallow that one (and try not to throw things at the tv screen). I feel for the actress for getting so much flame thrown at her for something that is beyond all of our control...

5 hours ago, Dee said:

When did Bughead graduate from casually dating to love of each others lives?

THIS!!! TPTB sold the story right, we fell for it, they have become the OTP. :D :D :D

[Mrs OldManBalls]

Betty's dad seems super whipped, and rarely gets to say more than a few lines. Will Lochlyn Munro ever get to do more??? 

[phoenics]

9 hours ago, Dee said:

When did Bughead graduate from casually dating to love of each others lives?

I think it was somewhere around that speech Betty gave where afterwards Jug told her he loved her and she returned it and then they had that hot session in his trailer kitchen.  I felt it growing all season - at first I know Betty was just hurting from her unrequited crush from Archie, but I think she truly fell in love with Jug.

One of the reasons why TPTB needed to break Bughead up though is so Betty can be with Archie but realize she loves Jug more.  She has to put that childhood crush down before she can truly be with Jug.

But I just thought of something - related to the comics and also Cole Sprouse's comments about Jug.  I'll take it to the comics thread.

3 hours ago, Mrs OldManBalls said:

Betty's dad seems super whipped, and rarely gets to say more than a few lines. Will Lochlyn Munro ever get to do more??? 

I was thinking for a while that he was the black hood... but the eye color is off.  The eyes look similar though.

Edited November 12, 2017 by phoenics

[Chas411]

I could be done with this show soon. Normally I love how over the top this show can be but this episode was just pure cringe from start to finish. Jughead and Betty UO are ridiculously over the top as star crossed lovers. Getting Archie to break up with him for her? Purely ridiculous. No doubt it'll be another episode or two before Archie is fully in love with Betty.

 

The serpent initiation was so embarrassing. Jughead in the wife beater was like a child playing dress up.

 

whats the deal with Betty running around a darkened and dangerous Riverdale by herself? I really tho fund that she was better, smarter than that. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Chas411

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t know. I just feel like next episode might break my resolve in this show, we will see and then I’ll probably post one last time in this Riverdale thread. Maybe not. I said it I’m 98% sure that a few scenes that could happen might break me.

Amd listen.. I fully expected Bughead to breakup, I just feel like and I’ve said this a thousand times you are all pretty sick of me saying it but the shoddy treatment that this couple was given this season (while Archie and Veronica got more, and then I’m going to assume that Barchie when they happen will get much better treatment when they happen) and the terrible breakup we were given is BS. It just is. 

[Mabinogia]

I am really hating the Jughead joins a gang storyline. Just not feeling it, not interested in it, don't care if they suddenly drop it with no explanation and stick him back at Riverdale High. I do, however, like the confirmation of Alice having been a SSS. LOVED her strutting into the party in that horrid, trashy outfit with that serpent neckless for all to see. And the "yeah, and" look she shot someone as she took the glass of bubbly (cause I can't spell). God I LOVE Alice! 

If we hadn't seen that the shooter of Fred I would 100% say that Betty is really Black Hood, the phone calls are all in her head, and she has finally snapped. I don't think it's anything to do with the Lodges because it makes no sense that they would target Betty. I could maybe see the Serpents target Betty, their real target being Alice, but I don't think it's that either. 

What I really, really loved this episode is that Veronica and the Pussycats rushed to save Cheryl though they aren't really her friends. It just kind of reinforces the fact that it doesn't matter who it is who is being attacked, it's wrong whether you like the victim or not. If that makes sense. I just feel like it wouldn't have been as powerful if Veronica were saving Betty or vice versa. 

I hope the show doesn't stay this dark. I don't mind some darkness, but this was just a mostly depressingly dark episode with a few light moments, like Alice strugging her stuff and part of the Serpent initiation being dog sitting. 

[methodwriter85]

On 11/10/2017 at 11:26 PM, phoenics said:

I still love this show.

Cole Sprouse though.  Whew.  How old is he?  I'm sure he's not old enough for me to be so drawn to him and his scenes! 

He's 25. He just happens to have a baby face. His twin brother is also playing high school.

Quote

What I really, really loved this episode is that Veronica and the Pussycats rushed to save Cheryl though they aren't really her friends. It just kind of reinforces the fact that it doesn't matter who it is who is being attacked, it's wrong whether you like the victim or not. If that makes sense. I just feel like it wouldn't have been as powerful if Veronica were saving Betty or vice versa. 

...Josie and Cheryl were friends early on in the show. They've just completely ignored that. There's a reason why Josie is the first one to comfort her.

[Eneya]

This show is quite amusing though it still hasn't found its step.