S02.E07: Chapter Seven: The Lost Sister

[ElectricBoogaloo]

First I have to high five the show for giving us a snippet of Punky Brewster!

The music choices are always A+ but using Runaway when Eleven had, you know, run away, was awesome.

I didn't mind this episode at all. While I understand that other people want to know what's happening in Hawkins, I totally understand why they had Eleven go on this journey. She needed to look for her mother. That big question mark is something she could not leave just hanging over her head, wondering where she was or what happened to her. Seeking out Kali served several different purposes. It was a good contrast to her being locked up in the lab for all those years, as well as being hidden in the cabin for the last year. She needed to get the fuck out for a little while and searching for her mother and then Kali was much more purposeful than "there's this boy I like."

Kali is not exactly a Sliding Doors type thing, but it shows one of the possible outcomes for kids like them from the lab. Obviously what Eleven has been through was not pleasant, but for a brief time she had some friends her own age and in the past year she's had Hopper giving her love and support. Kali, on the other hand, is living in an abandoned warehouse and is constantly on the run from the cops in between killing whatever Bad Men she can track down. She is focused on revenge. Maybe if Eleven didn't have Mike, Hopper, and the others, she might be consumed with the need for vengeance too. And as Kali said, she was like Eleven once too. I can't really blame Kali for wanting to get back at the people who tortured her and made her life a living hell. But all of this (finding her mom, finding Kali, learning more about their powers, finding out that the Bad Men are still out there) led Eleven to realize that what she needs to do is help her friends in Hawkins. I don't know how she would have come to that conclusion while sitting in the cabin eating waffles and watching tv.

I wouldn't mind Eleven finding other kids from the lab. I don't need that to be the focus of the show, but I would be okay with her trying to find them and make sure that they're okay.

While I agree it was obvious that Kali wanted to use Eleven's powers to help her find the other Bad Men, I think that Kali really did feel a kinship to Eleven and that was her main reason for wanting her to stay.

Edited November 3, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[candle96]

I liked this episode, although I can certainly understand why people wouldn't.  El is such a tremendous screen presence, that I'm always "in" when she's onscreen. I thought it was necessary for the growth of the character, and I'm hoping this means she can learn to have a little more of a normal life eventually. I think seeing how Kali lives helped her realize how lucky she was to end up in the company of people who cared about her, as opposed to this ugly ragtag group. That mohawk guy and the Madonna-wannabe were way too over the top to be taken seriously (perhaps intentionally from the Duffers). I do love how much this show has no problem being derivative of 80s movies and stereotypes.

I had also heard the Duffer brothers intentions with Season 2 were to make a sequel, much like Empire Strikes Back, and this episode certainly was the most direct reference to that, similar to when Luke went to find Yoda. Although, ha, Kali seemed to telling Eleven to give in to her "dark side" to move that train car. And the vision of El seeing her friends and deciding to leave, was very similar to Luke leaving to save his. Plus the whole separation of the ensemble, always my least favorite part of that movie. I'm hoping El reunites with everyone soon, and they don't wait until the end of the last episode.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

19 minutes ago, candle96 said:

I had also heard the Duffer brothers intentions with Season 2 were to make a sequel, much like Empire Strikes Back, and this episode certainly was the most direct reference to that, similar to when Luke went to find Yoda. Although, ha, Kali seemed to telling Eleven to give in to her "dark side" to move that train car. And the vision of El seeing her friends and deciding to leave, was very similar to Luke leaving to save his. Plus the whole separation of the ensemble, always my least favorite part of that movie. I'm hoping El reunites with everyone soon, and they don't wait until the end of the last episode.

Bonus Empire Strikes Back reference: Mike yelling, “It’s a trap!” 

[Yolapukka]

I think the episode, except for one dubious choice at the end worked really well for me. From a dramatic standpoint, Eleven/Jane hiding out in the cabin until she could be drawn back into the main storyline is not interesting.  I wanted to see what would happen when she encountered her mother and was able to understand what Hopper meant when he told her she wasn't around anymore. I largely enjoyed the way it introduced Kali, though I'd be happy if the other characters in her storyline would disappear. I liked the fact that she had two very different opportunities to find a family and had the awareness to see why neither would really work out for her. As well-meaning as her Aunt is, it's not really in her wheelhouse to be capable of protecting Jane, she couldn't even manage to be appropriately discreet when she left a message for Hopper. Kali and co. are just big  trouble.

Kali is quite destructive (the name choice seems very deliberate) and is on a path that will probably lead her and those with her to death or, possibly worse, capture. I can't say I greatly disapprove of her mission to rid the world of some genuinely evil people, but, as Jane grasped fairly quickly, life is too complicated for something as simple as revenge to set things right. She's not a good person for Jane to be around right now, although I think Kali genuinely cares about her, she's too manipulative and angry to do anything other than put Jane in danger, both actual and moral. I think they are underlining fairly heavily that the older girl will have a continued presence on the show by emphasizing that they are sisters, especially with Jane's mother supporting the idea. No matter what Kali tried to claim, I don't think Jane's mother wanted to her to find her sister because she wants revenge. I kind of doubt she knows what the girl is up to, I do think she wanted for her to be alright and for Jane to find her because hopefully together, they could keep each other safe. I didn't see anything about Kali that suggested spin-off, her mission is not that interesting a premise and the characters she was with are dull and disposable.  I could only remember the name of one and that's only because I heard it so many times with in the episode. Axel, AKA Mohawked asshole  who seemed to have accidentally wound up in the wrong warehouse on his way to join Clarence Boddicker's gang. I was expecting and frankly hoping he'd die in a hail of bullets while screeching "Eat hot lead! Copper!!!" well before the end. He very nearly didn't disappoint. Almost as obnoxious was the ratted-hair loudmouth girl, and of the two remaining, large folded-arm guy, barely registered as a presence at all and only getaway driver chick seemed like someone capable of doing a passable impersonation of a decent human being with dimension beyond "lets wreck stuff, and take down the man, ma-aaan.". Kali's merry gang of miscreants can go away , never to be seen again, and I hope they do. Quite possibly that was exactly how I was supposed to react to them.

I was intrigued by what Pruitt Taylor Vince's character said about Brenner. I think his death was fairly unambiguous,  I really don't expect him to pop up as anything more than a figment of Kali's powers so I think the claim he's alive was likely nothing more than a desperate man trying to stay alive. However, if the upside down is a parallel  dimension that is crossing over, could that meant that in a way the head Demi-gorgon is related to the evil Brenner put out in our world, that in a sense an aspect of him still exists? Even without that possibility, I thought it was interesting that Will referred to the main presence of the hive-mind as "he" as opposed to an it  or even a she, as the head of a hive is usually female.

My biggest problem with the episode is the point in the timeline that Jane realizes Mike and Hopper are in danger. At that point they are literally minutes away from a swarm of demo-gorgons launching an assault from within on the facility. She has to get to an intra-city bus, take the bus, make her way through town to the facility before she can even hope to help them. That seems like it could take a few hours. Even if she'd instead persuaded Kali's bunch to drive her with the pedal to the metal, it seems like an awfully long time would pass. It would have worked better for me if she'd realized the potential danger when it was a little less imminent at an earlier point in their timeline before it was obvious to them. I'm hoping the attack has a fairly long timeline so we aren't taken out of things by her arriving in the nick of time mere minutes after things go horribly wrong at the lab. This show is quite good about avoiding those sorts of sloppy writing mistakes, so  it would be quite a shock if they drop the ball like that.

Edited November 3, 2017 by yuggapukka

[Ellaria]

On 11/2/2017 at 9:39 AM, Danny Franks said:

Didn't care about the punk gang, or Eleven's sister. They reminded me too much of the most annoying parts of City on Fire by Garth Risk Hallberg. And they were too much of a departure from Hawkins and the rest of the characters.

But badass Eleven is badass, and Millie Bobby Brown did a fine job of holding an episode together, even with a brand new cast. I guess this was a look at what Eleven could be, if she didn't have people who care about her, like Hopper and Mike. The dangers of uncontrolled power, just what Brenner was so scared of. Fortunately, she's a better person than her sister.

What I did find interesting is the idea that the Duffers are setting up a potential franchise here, with the variety of powers and the prospect of experiments continuing. It's not something I'd really look forward to, because I'm far more attached to the characters than the concept.

Well said. 

I understand why an episode like this was needed but I didn’t like the shift in focus to somewhere other than Hawkins, particularly right when everything is going bad. Regardless, we know that El understands what her life could become. She made the choice to return home and that is incredibly important for her. This may be the first time that she has made a decision about the direction of her own life.

Glad to she that she understands that Hopper was trying to protect her in his own misguided way. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Ellaria Sand

[Mattipoo]

I thought this was an okay standalone episode. Enjoyed the big city setting, and Kali and El did chemistry as a pair of sisters. Kali’s crew was really annoying though. Maybe Kali will join El in Hawkins at some point in the future as I think she can be an interesting addition to the older teenager crew and maybe a love interest for Jonathan. 

[Clanstarling]

4 minutes ago, Mattipoo said:

I thought this was an okay standalone episode. Enjoyed the big city setting, and Kali and El did chemistry as a pair of sisters. Kali’s crew was really annoying though. Maybe Kali will join El in Hawkins at some point in the future as I think she can be an interesting addition to the older teenager crew and maybe a love interest for Jonathan. 

As long as it's not a love interest for Billy....

[Littlebitofcheese]

For all the questions on the skyline, The whole thing was filmed in the Atlanta area.(Screen Gems Studios in Atlanta) I think they blended in the Chicago skyline because that warehouse is in Dekalb county GA. The School scenes are in Stockbridge GA.

I really liked this whole concept because it give us a different look into Eleven. I hope we get more in Season 3. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Littlebitofcheese

[rove4]

Hands down this was my least favorite episode of the season.  Granted, Will's journey has been the most interesting one to me this season so I kept wondering what was going on back in Hawkins.  The best part of this episode for me was when Eleven realized who her true friends were and where her real home is.  I was also thrilled that she first thought of Hopper when that epiphany hit.  I like Mike but I have zero interest in any puppy love scenario.  I'm much more interested and invested in Eleven and Hopper and their pseudo father-daughter dynamic.  

 

Is it wrong that I want Hopper and Joyce to marry and adopt Eleven??

[The Companion]

On 10/28/2017 at 4:32 AM, EarlGreyTea said:

Having whined about all that, I did really like Callie (Kali?). It might have been easy to make her cartoonish or a villain, but they hit some great notes making her caring yet out for revenge. But I also liked that she helped Eleven realize her gravitational pull has always been towards Mike, Hopper, and the other kids. Hilarious that one of Eleven's anger triggers was Max merely talking to Mike. Kid's already turning into a normal tween.

 

My husband said exactly that. "Well, I guess she is a teenage girl." I think Kali was definitely sincere, but I also think she was manipulative. Did she bring back Papa to help Eleven or to convince her to stay. I am not sure even she could answer that. Imagine the power you would have if you could make people see what you wanted them to, induce them to do what you wanted them to. Being surrounded by people who can't challenge her must have warped her in some ways. That being said, I ended up feeling like she was mostly trying to do the right thing. I think she cared about Eleven, and I appreciate that she let her go.

On 10/28/2017 at 2:50 PM, Last Time Lord said:

This is literally the only issue I had with this episode. Had this and The Spy been flipped, I feel it would have worked better, and provided a bigger incentive for viewers to want to see that one for the full context of El's visions.

I think this is a good point. I think it was the placement just as things are getting ramped up that made it so jarring. I don't know how they would have done it, but I think it also would have worked as bonus content episode between two of the seasons. Obviously, major changes would have had to be made to make it happen. In the end, it didn't really fit the same tone as the other episodes but I actually liked the episode itself. 

On 10/28/2017 at 4:50 PM, ghoulina said:

IEven though I didn't like a lot of the episode, I did understand its purpose. The whole experience in the big city made El realize that she didn't need to go looking for home, she had it all along. This was her Dorothy moment. 

I agree. I loved El looking for home and deciding to go back. She has spent her entire life controlled by others. She needed to go out into the world and make a choice. Where does she want to be? Who does she want to be? 

 

On 10/29/2017 at 5:49 AM, Kokapetl said:

Yeah, Kali’s friends raise some issues. How many people do they each want to kill in revenge?  Are they collectively going to murder thirty people? What does rainbow hair girl bring to the party?

I got the feeling that Kali used her powers to get them to help them work through their own issues. Similar to what she tried to do with Eleven. A cynic would see that as manipulation. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, it is very possible that she helped them channel their rage but also escape their feelings of helplessness. 

 

On 10/29/2017 at 7:56 PM, methodwriter85 said:

Oh, yeah, this TOTALLY had a backdoor pilot feel to it. I wouldn't be shocked if Netflix were trying to spin off 8 into her own show. It's not a bad idea, actually, but I'm glad 11 is headed back to Hawkins.

My husband was a HUGE fan of this episode. He thought it was a really fun concept. That being said, it felt a bit like something we have seen before. I am not sure they had enough to make me want to watch a season, but who knows. I had no idea how they were going to get a Season 2 of Stranger Things and it has been phenomenal.

On 10/29/2017 at 8:13 PM, starri said:

Still, the "I can save them" was almost worth everything else.

I loved this so much. Again, it seemed like a realization that she could be an individual actor. She isn't doing things because others tell her to, she is doing things because she wants to and because she cares. 

 

One random observation. One of the bookshelves was spray painted "So long and thanks." It made me so happy. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is my favorite series. 

[VCRTracking]

Millie said in her BUILD interview she filmed the episode for like a month and a half and It felt almost like she was doing a movie on her own in the middle of the show and she missed seeing and hanging out with the rest of the regular cast.

[Casually Observant]

On 10/28/2017 at 7:02 AM, Athena said:

When she saw her Aunt call someone, Eleven went through her purse and left. It's not outlandish for her to know about intercity buses. She probably hitchhiked or walked to a bus depot. She probably only had to use like a few words the whole time.

Yes. I believe she dumped out her Aunt's purse, took some cash and the purse itself and left the rest spread out on the counter.  When she was walking from the bus she had an over-the-shoulder satchel that looked too big for her, so I am assuming it was the Aunt's purse.   When the Aunt hangs up the phone, she walks into the kitchen and sees the contents of her purse dumped on the counter. She calls for El and realized she has run off.

On 11/5/2017 at 10:03 AM, Clanstarling said:

As long as it's not a love interest for Billy....

BILLY:  Speaking of Billy, that boy sure lifts an awful lot of weight for being a high schooler.  I mean it looked like his bar held about 150 lbs. which is quite heavy for a 2-arm bicep curl, I think.  Could he really be older but is forced to pretend to be HS age to protect his step-sister?  His anger problems are just seething below the surface. I'm glad we learned about the divorce and subsequent move, but there has to be more to Billy's almost sociopathic behavior. There have been a few small hints of decency shown, which makes him look like he was a good person that has been damaged.  His backstory will be interesting if they ever tell it.

STEVE:  He was a self-obsessed narcissist with a touch of cruelty at the first half of last season who was unlikeable. But, he had an epiphany with Nancy and ultimately proved himself by scrubbing off the graffiti at the theater and then jumping in at the end to help Nancy and Jonathan against the Demogorgon.  His underlying decency has developed and for the second season, wow!  He is a changed man.  So kind and caring with Nancy,  vulnerable, sensitive and heroic.  His willingness to just jump right in there to help Dustin and go down those steps of the cellar with God knows what at the bottom!  Then, him joining the other kids to lure the Demogorgon and then walking right out there unprotected (bat with nails notwithstanding) in the spooky mist with the chittering of the lurking panther-like reptilian creature(s)  just out of sight!  Heroic, selfless and yes, also dangerous and stupid.  But he is so much more, now.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Casually Observant said:

I'm glad we learned about the divorce and subsequent move, but there has to be more to Billy's almost sociopathic behavior. There have been a few small hints of decency shown, which makes him look like he was a good person that has been damaged.  His backstory will be interesting if they ever tell it.

I don't know if scenes from his audition tape would be considered spoilers (or trustworthy at all for an actual storyline from the show) but -

Spoiler

in his audition he starts out doing a scene where he's arguing with another guy over what sounds like a body (bounty??? money???) that was found in a car they had stolen (???) and the guy pulls a gun on him.  Billy gets really mad when the guy tells him to go back to screwing his mother, too.  So there could definitely be some interesting backstory there.

[Casually Observant]

I am really liking the current writing of Joyce, Bob and Chief Hopper and the Doctor at the Facility. They are written as strong, kind and NOT stupid, which is a departure from the way most parents and people of authority are depicted in so many shows over the years. I also really like that the kids are telling each other everything instead of the usual trope of sharing the least possible or keeping everything to themselves.  I'm glad that Lucas shared with Max and that Max is now part of the secret club for real and is willing and able to help.  

I am hoping that they can bring Billy in and employ him as additional defense, which I think could bring him into the fold and give him a place to put his anger and allow him to be a hero rather than a menace.

Will's dual personality battle of himself vs. Himself+HE.  The young actor does a good job of showing subtlety in his changing back and forth between the two personalities.

How will Chief Hopper and those in the facility defend themselves against the approaching Demogorgons?? Oh no!

[Casually Observant]

20 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

I don't know if scenes from his audition tape would be considered spoilers (or trustworthy at all for an actual storyline from the show) but -

  Hide contents

in his audition he starts out doing a scene where he's arguing with another guy over what sounds like a body (bounty??? money???) that was found in a car they had stolen (???) and the guy pulls a gun on him.  Billy gets really mad when the guy tells him to go back to screwing his mother, too.  So there could definitely be some interesting backstory there.

I actually did watch that.  The scene he is enacting is from another movie, Stand By Me.  He is portraying the Kiefer Sutherland bully role as seen below, not Stranger Things.  

So, we don't know yet what Billy's backstory is.  Hope we find out soon.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Casually Observant
typo

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Casually Observant said:

I actually did watch that.  The scene he is enacting is from another movie, Stand By Me.  He is portraying the Kiefer Sutherland bully role as seen below, not Stranger Things.  

Ha ha ha no wonder they were arguing about who got to keep the body.  I thought that was a bit odd.  It's been decades since I've seen SBM so I didn't even pick up on that!  Thanks.

[Littlebitofcheese]

On 11/3/2017 at 1:02 PM, yuggapukka said:

My biggest problem with the episode is the point in the timeline that Jane realizes Mike and Hopper are in danger. At that point they are literally minutes away from a swarm of demo-gorgons launching an assault from within on the facility. She has to get to an intra-city bus, take the bus, make her way through town to the facility before she can even hope to help them. That seems like it could take a few hours. Even if she'd instead persuaded Kali's bunch to drive her with the pedal to the metal, it seems like an awfully long time would pass. It would have worked better for me if she'd realized the potential danger when it was a little less imminent at an earlier point in their timeline before it was obvious to them. I'm hoping the attack has a fairly long timeline so we aren't taken out of things by her arriving in the nick of time mere minutes after things go horribly wrong at the lab. This show is quite good about avoiding those sorts of sloppy writing mistakes, so  it would be quite a shock if they drop the ball like that.

You can get from that part of Chicago to NW Indiana in roughly 2 hours maybe sooner if it's just across the border. I get your point but it's doable though it would be a tight window.

[VCRTracking]

19 hours ago, Littlebitofcheese said:

On 11/3/2017 at 10:02 AM, yuggapukka said:

My biggest problem with the episode is the point in the timeline that Jane realizes Mike and Hopper are in danger. At that point they are literally minutes away from a swarm of demo-gorgons launching an assault from within on the facility. She has to get to an intra-city bus, take the bus, make her way through town to the facility before she can even hope to help them. That seems like it could take a few hours. Even if she'd instead persuaded Kali's bunch to drive her with the pedal to the metal, it seems like an awfully long time would pass. It would have worked better for me if she'd realized the potential danger when it was a little less imminent at an earlier point in their timeline before it was obvious to them. I'm hoping the attack has a fairly long timeline so we aren't taken out of things by her arriving in the nick of time mere minutes after things go horribly wrong at the lab. This show is quite good about avoiding those sorts of sloppy writing mistakes, so  it would be quite a shock if they drop the ball like that.

You can get from that part of Chicago to NW Indiana in roughly 2 hours maybe sooner if it's just across the border. I get your point but it's doable though it would be a tight window.

 Mike, Hopper, Joyce and Will trapped in the lab, then escaping to go to Joyce's house. There, they fixed up the shed plus the interrogation of Will, plus the time for the demidogs to get there. That had to have been at least three hours.

[LeGrandElephant]

I was bored by this episode. 

Why does Kali still have an accent and why did Eleven have blonde hair as a kid and black hair now? 

I bet they picked the name Jane specifically because it’s so boring and fits Eleven so badly that the audience will keep on closing her El or Eleven, the more unique name that was already popularized in the first season.  

[Portia]

Of all the things I hated about this episode,  here's the one that absolutely drove me crazy: how did those edgy youths maintain their complicated hairstyles in those living conditions? 

[secnarf]

3 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

I was bored by this episode. 

Why does Kali still have an accent and why did Eleven have blonde hair as a kid and black hair now? 

I bet they picked the name Jane specifically because it’s so boring and fits Eleven so badly that the audience will keep on closing her El or Eleven, the more unique name that was already popularized in the first season.  

Eleven's hair isn't black, but plenty of people start off blonde and then their hair darkens as they age.

[EarlGreyTea]

3 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

I was bored by this episode. 

Why does Kali still have an accent and why did Eleven have blonde hair as a kid and black hair now? 

I bet they picked the name Jane specifically because it’s so boring and fits Eleven so badly that the audience will keep on closing her El or Eleven, the more unique name that was already popularized in the first season.  

I feel like the hair, accent, and age gap were clues. Sure, kids' hair darkens, but it wouldn't have been hard to find a brunette kid. That, and the fact that the two girls in the rainbow room looked to be the same age, when there is clearly at least 5 years between Kali and Eleven. I felt like I was taking crazy pills. Are these clues there's more there, or am I overthinking?

[Taryn74]

50 minutes ago, EarlGreyTea said:

the two girls in the rainbow room looked to be the same age

Really?  They don't to me.  The blonde girl looks like she's maybe 4 or 5, and the other girl looks about 8 or 9.

 

[EarlGreyTea]

I stand corrected. I only sat through this episode once and refused to ever watch it again. Yeah, there looks to be an age gap, just not as obvious as I'd have thought. It may just be me, I never have any idea how old kids are.

[Dobian]

If this show ran even thirteen episodes, then a one-off focusing on a single character might have been fine.  But with only nine episodes it was very disruptive to the flow of the story, especially taking Jane/Eleven all the way out to Chicago.  I did like Kali, her scenes with Eleven were very good and if this is just a setup to bring her into the action back in Hawkins then okay, as long as they don't bring her whole misfit band along with her because they would just be too big a distraction since they really have nothing to do with all these paranormal goings-on and the cast is big enough as it is.

[SparklesBitch]

On 10/28/2017 at 5:50 PM, ghoulina said:

It was cool for El to meet someone with a similar background, but I always felt like Kal was using her. I feared for El if she stayed there. That crew was forcing her to grow up too soon. And, despite everything she's been through, I just want her to have a chance at a happy childhood with Mike and the boys, with Hopper. I want her to play D&D and trick or treat and learn to skateboard, maybe. Not run around in that shitty can, killing people and stealing, because we've just been so wronged by the world. Ugh. 

Even though I didn't like a lot of the episode, I did understand its purpose. The whole experience in the big city made El realize that she didn't need to go looking for home, she had it all along. This was her Dorothy moment. 

This is exactly how I felt about this whole episode. I think that Kali did genuinely care about El and was upset when she left because she was losing a connection to someone like herself, but then Kali was definitely trying to manipulate El into staying and that rubbed me the wrong way. 

That being said, I did think Millie was fantastic in this episode, as always. 

On 11/9/2017 at 6:59 PM, LeGrandElephant said:

Why does Kali still have an accent and why did Eleven have blonde hair as a kid and black hair now? 

I can’t speak to the accent, but I was super blonde as a little kid and now have dark brunette hair as an adult. Sometimes hair color does weird things as kids grow. 

On 11/5/2017 at 6:08 PM, rove4 said:

Is it wrong that I want Hopper and Joyce to marry and adopt Eleven??

That’s what I want too, even though I actually really like Bob. So if it’s wrong, I don’t want to be right. =) 

[EarlGreyTea]

Someone on a different board mentioned that Kali should come to Hawkins and get together with Steve. This is now everything I never knew I wanted. It brings Kali to the main action in Hawkins, hopefully without her annoying ass crew, and draws Steve even more into the main action. Having said all that, the main cast is already bloated, so it will probably not happen. Also it's kind of hard to picture grounded-in-reality Steve with Kali. They kind of already have that with Mike and Eleven.

Edited November 16, 2017 by EarlGreyTea

[bettername2come]

One thing I liked about this episode - Kali's friends immediately tried to bail when they saw kids. Granted, they also saw those kids had dialed 911, but still, nice to see them showing some moral fiber and/or logic.

I feel like the episode's worth it just for Eleven's "My friends are in danger...no, but I can save them" line.

[Hanahope]

I can't believe its taking over 7 episodes for Eleven to (hopefully) meet up with the rest of the kid and crew.

Not a bad episode, I can see where the writers thought it was necessary, El had to experience some life without Mike & Co. in order to realize that they are important to her, even if there is some risk.  She did strengthen her powers more, which I'm sure will be needed to fight the many demogorgons.  And she knows that she's not alone in being used by the lab, there might even be more kids out there.

I think Kali did really like her, but only as far she  could be useful to her own crew.  I'm glad that El chose to save the man, at least once she found out he had kids.  Is Brenner really still alive?  S3, there you go.

I'm sure El will get back to save Mike and Will, but who will die in the meantime.

[JasminePhyllisia]

On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 7:35 PM, Portia said:

Of all the things I hated about this episode,  here's the one that absolutely drove me crazy: how did those edgy youths maintain their complicated hairstyles in those living conditions? 

I thought of this too! Those looks must take a lot of maintenance, makeup, hair products, etc. And they are basically homeless living in an abandoned warehouse? Not credible at all.  Nice realistic touch though when they robbed the convenience store and Madonna girl had a box of tampons among her loot.

[theatremouse]

On 10/29/2017 at 0:49 AM, Blue Plastic said:

I don't get what the motivation is for the rest of Kali's crew.

Kali is essentially Fagin. That's my take.

[EarlGreyTea]

On 11/25/2017 at 0:51 PM, JasminePhyllisia said:

I thought of this too! Those looks must take a lot of maintenance, makeup, hair products, etc. And they are basically homeless living in an abandoned warehouse? Not credible at all.  Nice realistic touch though when they robbed the convenience store and Madonna girl had a box of tampons among her loot.

Furthermore, why the hell are they all living in squalor when they have someone who could rob banks at the blink of an eye? Are they all sticking around hoping Kali will decide to do that someday? Or are they so pretentious that they prefer to live on the edge?

[Vella]

I got the impression that they steal only what is necessary and when it is necessary because they live very much off the grid. The main purpose of what they're doing is tracking down and killing those involved in the labs.  Robbing banks would only bring more heat on them and put them at a far greater risk for getting caught or killed.  They stick around because Kali helped them and they, in turn, feel loyal to her and what she wants to do.  I would imagine all of them have pretty terrible backgrounds where they were used, abused and cast out and had been living pretty desperate lives when Kali came along.  Killing people who hurt Kali and others like her is a way for them to strike back against those who hurt them. 

[Bklyndeb]

Not my favorite episode. That crew was less believable than the demogorgons.  But I just realized that El looked like Kristy McnNichol

https://www.google.com/search?q=kristy+mcnichol&client=ms-android-motorola&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwijm5_mpMTYAhXnQt8KHfoeCngQ_AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=263#imgrc=cwwOyeUfFCiN8M:

[foxfreakinmulder]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 10:45 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

Several things seemed off to me in this episode.  While I could sort of see that Eleven could have figured out how to hitchhike (she's certainly been watching enough television over the last year) but taking a Greyhound bus into Chicago?  Where did she suddenly get the money?  How did she know where and when to catch it?

I was thinking the same thing. El doesn't even seem like she can read that well if at all, she doesn't seem to understand a lot of words, she always repeats words then someone explains them to her. How would she even know where to go? I don't think her vision said Chicago and she really didn't see much to go on to find her way. She took money from her Aunt's wallet.

I wasn't thrilled with the group of misfits the first time I saw this episode and felt the same on this rewatch. It's nice that we got to meet another victim of the lab and "papa" but I didn't care for this episode, I actually think it's my least favorite of the whole series. But, I've always wondered what happened to numbers 01-07 and 09 & 10. Did they escape?

[Clanstarling]

14 minutes ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

I was thinking the same thing. El doesn't even seem like she can read that well if at all, she doesn't seem to understand a lot of words, she always repeats words then someone explains them to her. How would she even know where to go? I don't think her vision said Chicago and she really didn't see much to go on to find her way. She took money from her Aunt's wallet.

I wasn't thrilled with the group of misfits the first time I saw this episode and felt the same on this rewatch. It's nice that we got to meet another victim of the lab and "papa" but I didn't care for this episode, I actually think it's my least favorite of the whole series. But, I've always wondered what happened to numbers 01-07 and 09 & 10. Did they escape?

Though I can't say this episode was a favorite, I thought it was important for two reasons - 1) to show that the "powers" the labs were developing were different for each child and 2) to have El understand there are choices to be made in using her powers - and to decide what her own moral compass is.

I do expect we'll eventually see others, but I also think that some of those children didn't survive the experiments.

[DanaMB]

On 11/3/2017 at 9:19 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

First I have to high five the show for giving us a snippet of Punky Brewster!

This episode bored me, but that alone made it worth watching. I loved that show as a kid. 

[Sarah 103]

On 10/29/2017 at 8:33 PM, david gideon said:

The low point of the series. This ep felt like it was part of another show altogether. In fact it reminded me of a 'nested pilot' for a proposed spin-off producers occasionally inflict on a series. A spin-off I would never watch based on this.

To be fair, did backdoor pilots ever succeed? I can think of sucessful spin-offs, but not a backdoor pilot that has lead to a sucessful series. 

On 10/30/2017 at 11:50 AM, absnow54 said:

I guess since I binged the episodes, I didn't really notice that this was a bottle episode until I saw complaints about it.

This is about as far from a bottle episode as you can get. A bottle episode uses mainly existing sets and as few guest actors as possible. An episode taking place in completely new locations/sets with a ton of brand new characters/guest actors is not a bottle episode. 

[blueray]

Doing another rewatch (probably the third one). And we just reached this episode....

It's not terrible but it is badly placed. Which has always been my issue with it. Maybe it should be swapped with the one before it. As that is more of a cliffhanger. And Kali's friends are annoying and pointless. I feel like they should get why Eleven didn't kill him. He has a family obviously. And she got her point across which was to threaten him. 

The best part of the episode is the beginning when she goes out into Chicago. 

[Taryn74]

I was looking forward to this episode in particular in my post-S4 rewatch, because I wanted to get a better handle on the timeline from when El was growing up in the lab. I will be 'thinking out loud' under the spoiler tags. Assume major spoilers for Season 4.

Spoiler

Okay, keep in mind I don't like Kali at all and am looking at her through very jaded eyes, LOL, but either she was flat out lying to El about 'coming to the rainbow room one day and you were gone, and that's why I ran away' or Brenner had pulled El away from the others for a time, or something. Because Kali was gone by the time of El's flashbacks in S4, we never see her in any of them or have a mention of "Eight", and I would think she was too young to run away shortly after Terry came to the lab so that wouldn't have been the catalyst. Also Terry's visions of Kali and "Jane" (I still loathe that name for El) are with them both having long hair, not shaved heads, and all of the kids in the S4 flashbacks have the buzz cuts. So...hmmm...maybe after Kali escaped (probably having been groomed by One to help HIM escape the same way he groomed El, only she used him for her own escape and then left him there - that's still my working theory - and she was just lying to El or had blocked her own memories out) Brenner started in with even more severe testing on the kids which they needed to have shaved heads for. El wouldn't remember this being different from before because she lost all of her memories after sending One to the Upside Down. That could make sense, I think.

I did notice that Kali used a lot of the same ideas and language for teaching El to hone her skills as One did. I was really interested in watching for that, as I said before I think he was grooming Kali to help him escape and taught her how to use HER skills and she passed that along.

At first I was trying to figure out why Terry seemed to be wanting El to find Kali (if that was indeed her intention and it wasn't really just her repeating the same things over and over to herself because that was truly all she could remember anymore) but then it dawned on me she was probably just genuinely worried about the only other kid she saw when she tried to take "Jane" away. Aww. That's really touching and sad all at the same time.

[roamyn]

This episode was okay.

I did not care for Kali and her incessant need for revenge over & above the safety of her crew.  I think she both cared for El but also wanted to use El for her quest.

The orderly or nurse from Hawkins wasn't really a "bad guy", just stuck working for a bad organization.   How many of the other "bad guys" the crew killed weren't really bad?  But Kali didn't care abt motivations or reasons or stories of her victims. 

To all those that said this had a backdoor Pilot vibe, that's dead on.

But ultimately this episode was abt two things:  1) El realizing what 'home' means to her; and 2) setting up that "Papa" Brenner may still be alive.

[Sarah 103]

On 4/26/2024 at 1:07 AM, roamyn said:

The orderly or nurse from Hawkins wasn't really a "bad guy", just stuck working for a bad organization.   How many of the other "bad guys" the crew killed weren't really bad?  But Kali didn't care abt motivations or reasons or stories of her victims. 

My guess is that Kali and her crew are operating based on the idea that any adult involved in the experiment/lab is fair game. In their minds, anyone who directly knowingly contributed to the organization and allowed it to function is evil and deserves to be punished or die.