S03.E03: Far From the Tree

[tofutan]

Quote

Why are the Martians all black? They are shapeshifters, right? 

I think they explained it away as J'onn being uncomfortable looking at the natural form of the White Martians and it being considered polite in Martian society to match the look of the guest. 

Edited October 24, 2017 by tofutan

[Writing Wrongs]

Oh, ok. Thanks.

[JapMo]

31 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

For me, this was a waste of an episode. I wasn't interested in anything.

I have to agree.  Mars was a bust...the set and the characters from Slaver's Moon was a LOT more interesting.   Also not interested in J'onn's father.  Why bring on another character?  He should have stayed on Mars.  The show has stated Reign is going to be a huge problem for Kara.  They need to set the groundwork for that, because it means taking her from good to evil.  That's a lot of storyline to cover.    

 

4 hours ago, tofutan said:

Turns out that Mon-El's presence is not actually required for James to be just a bit player in an episode. 

Doesn't matter.  He'll get blamed for it anyway, LOL.

[DigitalCount]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

As for Maggie and her dad, I didn't like that he was portrayed as though his homophobia was rooted in being discriminated against as a Mexican and supposedly not wanting to see his daughter discriminated against.

This was the tough part for me. I guess Maggie's father contains multitudes, and a part of him is bigoted while another part of him genuinely wants his daughter to be safe. Put together, his fear over other people being as bigoted as he is about this makes a bit of sense, especially since he thinks she's (willingly) throwing away the safety he worked hard to secure for her. The only thing that doesn't work is the fact that he allowed his mentality regarding her sexuality to lead him to abandon her, which would only make it that much harder. I don't think that means he's full of it, but it makes it harder to see his actions as purely motivated by worry for her own well-being.

[tofutan]

I didn't believe him for a second. If all he did was worry about her, there was no reason to run off in disgust when he saw Alex and Maggie kiss. In the beginning I thought they were maybe going to go for an approach where maybe the father was more lenient and the mother was the driving force between sending Maggie away, but he killed any sympathy from me with how he reacted to the kiss. 

[Iceman91]

Strange episode with so much of the cast being absent or staying in the background.

The mars plot was the most interesting, Jonn hasn't been given much to do last season so he deserved the spotlight and the scenes with his father were solid.

Too bad that the show doesn't have a bigger budget, all these dark caves made for a very boring visual, I want an alien planet that looked like alien. 

Kara was in a supporting role but she was good in this role, she was there for Jonn, connected with his father, brought a little humor and got to kick Martians' asses. I guess tv and movies taught me to not consider anonymous goons as actual persons because I didn't react at all to Kara killing a bunch of white martians.

 

I was bored by Maggie's plot. I was surprised by how little Alex we got in this story, she was mostly there to have the kid conversation at the end and prepare the breakup. Winn and James had one line, Eliza was also wasted, I'm sure that the writers genuinely wanted to tell a story about coming out in a family who rejects you but to me, it came as a desperate try to show Floriana Lima that they counted on her by giving her a big showcase.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The political anvils notwithstanding, the main lesson I learned from this episode is that if you don't have the CGI budget to do a Martian episode, don't do a Martian episode. It's one thing for the Martians to look like humans on earth. On Mars, what's the point? To impress Supergirl - another alien? 

That was my takeaway as well. I just couldn't keep my mind on the story because there wasn't any logical reason the Martians should take human form. Even though they tried to handwave this by having J'onn's father say "Oh, it's our custom to take our host's form," because it was already established that the father did not believe it was really him. The whole thing was dumb. 

At first I had hopes for Maggie's story, but it fell apart very quickly when her father started ranting about building a wall and Mexican rapists. Once again I was pulled right out of the story. Moreover, I half expected the twist to be that he wasn't bothered by the lesbian thing - he was bothered by the fact that Alex was white. But no - he ranted about the discrimination he endured and how hard he fought for his child not to have to go through that and then polished it all off with "the only thing they hate worse than Mexicans are homosexuals." WTF? That didn't even make any sense.

I wish they had just gone the simpler route of Maggie's parents being religious and not accepting a gay lifestyle. That actually would be realistic. Maybe the show was overly concerned with bringing politics into it or afraid of slamming religion. I don't get it.

[Trini]

After two episodes without it, I kinda groaned when I saw they brought back the voiceover intro. They really don't need it. Didn't need to add the new YoungKara actress to the opening either.

[iMonrey]

I don't think the show needs the intro either at this point. Plus it's way too cheesy the way she says "I. Am. Supergirl!!!"

[opus]

The intro always makes me think "Was that almost plane crash the first emergency ever to happen in the city? A super person was never needed before?"

[secnarf]

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

As for Maggie and her dad, I didn't like that he was portrayed as though his homophobia was rooted in being discriminated against as a Mexican and supposedly not wanting to see his daughter discriminated against.

I thought this was realistic for him to believe that. The vast majority of bigots can justify their actions in this way. Heck, this is how my mother justifies her disapproval of my sexuality. She's very concerned with the way society will view "someone like me". I think a lot of parents struggle with knowing their kids will face discrimination and barriers as a result of not being heterosexual. I could also understand why seeing them kiss could bring that home for Maggie's dad.

To me, it didn't quite track with him kicking her out as a teenager, but it's not like bigots are known for being rational and logical.

[TV Anonymous]

I want to watch a superhero show, not a social exposé about same-sex relationship. I had enough of that watching Glee, thank you very much.

6 hours ago, tofutan said:

I think they explained it away as J'onn being uncomfortable looking at the natural form of the White Martians and it being considered polite in Martian society to match the look of the guest. 

That does not explain why Till'all and all the background White Martians need to be black as well. If they wanted to be polite to their guest, Supergirl is a white blonde. 

[Wordsworth]

I stopped watching 40 minutes into it.

 

So Maggie's dad - a legal immigrant - abandons his daughter 10-15 years ago when she was 14 all because Trump wants to build a wall to keep out illegal immigrants right now.  I'm sick to death of Hollywood holding the fans of TV shows captive to political lectures.  This is entertainment, not a soapbox.  I've never appreciated the Message!  Message!  Don't miss the message! crap that gets spewed out.  Since the election, Hollywood has become deranged.  Supergirl is one of the few currently-running television programs I still watch.  That may change if I have to not only see established characters like James and Winn get forced into the background to focus on the ever-expanding cast, but also put up with scripts that bash me over the head with their anti-Trump hysteria.

[FortKnox]

I hated Maggie's story but, for a different reason.

When Maggie told us about coming out as a teen she said her parents were pround and supportive. Which I liked cause I was so sick of the "parents disown the coming out teen" trope but, then she said it was a lie and it was like every other coming out story in the last few decades.

[CletusMusashi]

I'm pretty sure there's no earth radio on Mars, so... Jonn keeps Britney Spears music in his car?

Also, can't Green Martians fly? If so, shouldn't Papa Jones be less amazed when Supergirl does it?

And finally, why do at least half the people in the universe speak fluent English?

[legaleagle53]

12 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

I'm pretty sure there's no earth radio on Mars, so... Jonn keeps Britney Spears music in his car?

Also, can't Green Martians fly? If so, shouldn't Papa Jones be less amazed when Supergirl does it?

And finally, why do at least half the people in the universe speak fluent English?

As far as the Martians are concerned, their telepathic abilities would enable them to learn English or any other language in seconds by simply reading the minds of the people they wish to communicate with (Kryptonians being a notable exception, since Kryptonians are immune to Martian telepathy).  They can also project their thoughts into others' minds, which would be automatically translated by the recipient.

[CletusMusashi]

So Mr. J learned English by reading his son's mind, without picking up anything else?

[tofutan]

6 hours ago, FortKnox said:

I hated Maggie's story but, for a different reason.

When Maggie told us about coming out as a teen she said her parents were pround and supportive. Which I liked cause I was so sick of the "parents disown the coming out teen" trope but, then she said it was a lie and it was like every other coming out story in the last few decades.

Aren't the majority of coming out stories that are actually portrayed on tv about super supportive parents? Like Alex herself or Kurt on Glee? 

I don't mind the new intro, I don't mind it. I think it stresses the alien-ness more by having her call herself Kara Zor-El rather than Danvers. I still think it's weird that Superman is featured in it considering how rarely he appears, we don't even know whether he'll be in this season at all. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by tofutan

[FortKnox]

1 minute ago, tofutan said:

Aren't the majority of coming out stories that are actually portrayed on tv about super supportive parents? Like Alex herself or Kurt on Glee? 

I'm more talking about when they come out as teenagers instead of adults. I'v never cared for Glee so I can't comment but, the shows I've watched the parents disown the teen.

[Jacks-Son]

On 10/23/2017 at 7:23 PM, mtlchick said:

They picked the wrong Britney song though: "Oops I Did It Again" was set on MARS, show.  Come on!  Get with your 2000s music! 

Britney Spears - Oops!...I Did It Again (Official Video)

This will be probably pulled by the Mods but I get where you're coming from MTLCHICK!

[tofutan]

3 hours ago, FortKnox said:

I'm more talking about when they come out as teenagers instead of adults. I'v never cared for Glee so I can't comment but, the shows I've watched the parents disown the teen.

Interesting. What shows? 

Most shows I remember where the person in question was younger, even in the parents had a bad reaction (like All My Children, Pretty Little Liars) I don't remember anybody actually being thrown out of the house. And of course you have the supportive ones like Ugly Betty or Glee. 

[legaleagle53]

8 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

So Mr. J learned English by reading his son's mind, without picking up anything else?

Yes.

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 hours ago, Wordsworth said:

So Maggie's dad - a legal immigrant - abandons his daughter 10-15 years ago when she was 14 all because Trump wants to build a wall to keep out illegal immigrants right now. 

Like others, this had me doing a treble and quadruple head check. What the fuck, now? Where is President Lynda Wonder Woman Carter? SHE'S the PRESIDENT on the EARTH. Just STOP IT, show.

8 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

As far as the Martians are concerned, their telepathic abilities would enable them to learn English or any other language in seconds by simply reading the minds of the people they wish to communicate with (Kryptonians being a notable exception, since Kryptonians are immune to Martian telepathy).  They can also project their thoughts into others' minds, which would be automatically translated by the recipient.

I see I need to forget everything I watched on Justice League, because in "Secret Origins," J'onn was able to let Supes know he was being held by the government by reaching out to Supes telepathically.

And my oh my oh my!!!! ORIGINAL J'onn J'onnz!!!!!!! Aside from the auto-tune whatever, Lumbly sounded JUST LIKE JL/JLU J'onn!!!!!!! The only Feels I got was when he realized that J'onn (Harewood) really was his son and not some White Martian trying to trick him. I won't lie, I cried. Tears spurted from my eyes, and I had a big giant smile on my face. I could feel it!

And add me to the list who loved Kara's "I think I made a wrong turn in Albuquerque" shout out to my very own Favorite Loony Toon Bugs Bunny's "I KNEW I should have made that left toirn at Albuqoirkee." Laughing at hearing Britney Spears!

I'm not even going to ask how it is that Maggie's last name is Sawyer, when she's Mexican. Unless she changed it to Sawyer after her parents disowned her.

Edited October 25, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[legaleagle53]

9 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I see I need to forget everything I watched on Justice League, because in "Secret Origins," J'onn was able to let Supes know he was being held by the government by reaching out to Supes telepathically.

Yes, because J'onn explained in a Season 1 episode (I forget which one) that he can't read the mind of a Kryptonian -- "a fact which Superman finds hysterical."  That fact was also referenced last week when J'onn scanned Kara's mind to try to find out how Psi's powers were able to induce panic attacks in Kara.  When Winn said "I thought you couldn't read a Kryptonian's mind," J'onn answered, "I can't, but I can scan it for residual telepathic energy [or something to that effect; I don't remember what the exact terminology was that he used]."

Edited October 25, 2017 by legaleagle53

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Yes, because J'onn explained in a Season 1 episode (I forget which one) that he can't read the mind of a Kryptonian -- "a fact which Superman finds hysterical."  That fact was also referenced last week when J'onn scanned Kara's mind to try to find out how Psi's powers were able to induce panic attacks in Kara.  When Winn said "I thought you couldn't read a Kryptonian's mind," J'onn answered, "I can't, but I can scan it for residual telepathic energy [or something to that effect; I don't remember what the exact terminology was that he used]."

Thanks. I forgot that. grumblegrumblegrumble.

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm not even going to ask how it is that Maggie's last name is Sawyer, when she's Mexican. Unless she changed it to Sawyer after her parents disowned her.

It's not uncommon for immigrants - especially from a generation or two back - to change their names to 'Anglicize' them. This used to happen by default at the entry points, where the immigration officer would (sometimes) alter foreign sounding names when recording them on the official documents. For example, we have a family friend with the last name Mitchell. Prior to immigration, the last name was Miccelli, which sounded "close enough" to Mitchell, so that is what the immigration official recorded. Other times, people would change their names intentionally to fit in. Not so common anymore, but it used to be fairly common.

Of course, the real reason is that that was her name in the comics and they didn't change it when they made the character Mexican.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, secnarf said:

It's not uncommon for immigrants - especially from a generation or two back - to change their names to 'Anglicize' them. This used to happen by default at the entry points, where the immigration officer would (sometimes) alter foreign sounding names when recording them on the official documents. For example, we have a family friend with the last name Mitchell. Prior to immigration, the last name was Miccelli, which sounded "close enough" to Mitchell, so that is what the immigration official recorded. Other times, people would change their names intentionally to fit in. Not so common anymore, but it used to be fairly common.

Of course, the real reason is that that was her name in the comics and they didn't change it when they made the character Mexican.

Oh I understand that. It's just that her father's surname is "Rohas?" I can't recall what Alex addressed him as, but it wasn't "Mr. Sawyer." That's the only reason I brought it up. That maybe she changed it after her parents abandoned and disowned her?

[sugarbaker design]

36 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That maybe she changed it after her parents abandoned and disowned her?

Who could blame her.  He kicked out his fourteen year old daughter, and she's the moral degenerate?!?!

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, sugarbaker design said:

Who could blame her.  He kicked out his fourteen year old daughter, and she's the moral degenerate?!?!

I don't blame her. I didn't mean to imply that I had an issue with her changing her name.

[FortKnox]

5 hours ago, tofutan said:

Interesting. What shows? 

Most shows I remember where the person in question was younger, even in the parents had a bad reaction (like All My Children, Pretty Little Liars) I don't remember anybody actually being thrown out of the house. And of course you have the supportive ones like Ugly Betty or Glee. 

I honesty can't tell you off the top of my head but, the ones that kick out the gay teen are really a small portion but, it's bigger compare to being supportive when it comes to the shows I watch if that sense.

I mean I know that are more shows that are supportive to gay teens but, I don't watch them so it seems like its not the new thing in tv tropes.

[sugarbaker design]

8 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't blame her. I didn't mean to imply that I had an issue with her changing her name.

Oh, I knew you didn't!  

[amass]

Comic books have always addressed social and political issues 

Here’s an index I found 

http://mikegrost.com/polit.htm

[The Crazed Spruce]

Just a reminder that real-life politics have no place in this forum, except where they directly relate to the episode at hand. You guys are toeing the line. Do not cross it.

[statsgirl]

On 10/24/2017 at 7:44 AM, tofutan said:

Turns out that Mon-El's presence is not actually required for James to be just a bit player in an episode. 

But his absence seems to be required for someone else to get a decent amount of storytime.  This is the first time Kara has had a plot in which J'onn has a substantial part since season 1 and the most we've had on J'onn ever.  And finally we learn more about Maggie than just her sexuality. 

Keep Mon El away for a few more episodes and we might actually find out about Winn (who had nothing but a C plot in s2) and James, with more on Alex, Lena and maybe even Eliza.

I really liked this episode, more than anything since season one.  I think it's because it moved out of the Kara/Mon El--Alex/Maggie box of season 2 and gave me something more than the same old. I even got a Kara/Alex scene that wasn't about their love lives.

On 10/24/2017 at 9:04 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

As for Maggie and her dad, I didn't like that he was portrayed as though his homophobia was rooted in being discriminated against as a Mexican and supposedly not wanting to see his daughter discriminated against.

Maggie's father was a homophobe without doubt. But the idea that he is also against her being lesbian because it would get her targeted is supported in the research about targeted groups such as Jews were historically in Europe.  When outside of the safety of your own group, it's important to keep your head down and be invisible so you don't get targeted. (I can provide research studies if anyone cares.) 

When Maggie and Alex kissed at the shower, I thought "What are you thinking?  You know  your father is barely okay with this, why are you making it harder for him to be there?"

Edited October 26, 2017 by statsgirl

[JoyGirl]

24 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

This is the first time Kara has had a plot in which J'onn has a substantial part since season 1 and the most we've had on J'onn ever.  And finally we learn more about Maggie than just her sexuality. 

I don't know what you mean.  Kara didn't have any plot in this episode...she was window dressing at best.

And it wasn't because of Mon-El, IMO, that we didn't learn that much about Maggie.  While I've always liked how they wrote the whole story of Alex discovering she's a lesbian and she and Maggie becoming a couple, the show never gave Maggie any kind of story.  They never really committed to the character, and they had plenty of opportunities all last season to do so.  Now all of a sudden they try to cram her life story in one episode, because the actress is leaving.   And I totally don't get where you think Winn had nothing much to do last season.  Of all the characters, IMO, Winn grew the most.  He joined the DEO, he went out on missions with Kara and Alex, he pretty much is in command of the IT group, and he got a love interest.  He was heavily involved in The Guardian storyline.  His scenes with James where he tries to talk him out of being a hero were very well written and gave us a good view of how comfortable Winn is in his own skin.  Winn did not suffer because they brought on Mon-El, but curiously, with Mon-El out of the picture so far this season, has anyone noticed how little Winn has appeared?   

And I'd be excited that J'onn finally got something to do but I didn't think the story was good at all.  There was so many more things they could have done than saddle him with a dad.  Geez.   But yes, I would agree that J'onn and James were all but forgotten last season, and they need to address it with GOOD stories or even just good scenes where they are in every episode or most of them and not MIA all season and then overkill for one show.     

[tofutan]

Quote

This is the first time Kara has had a plot in which J'onn has a substantial part since season 1 and the most we've had on J'onn ever.  

Season 1 had no Mon-El and this is supposedly still the most we ever got of J'onn?

James got an episode where he had way more screentime than Kara in season 2 when Mon-El was still around. And just because people didn't like the Guardian storyline doesn't change that it was a storyline. As was Winn falling in love with Lyra. As was Winn having mini PTSD after being attacked while out with Guardian. 

And how is Maggie's storyline with her father less about her sexuality than her having cheated on her ex? 

I have no problem with people not liking Mon-El, tastes differ, but some of the accusations leveled against him just make no sense to me. Like, I get the accusation of him having too much screentime (especially for people who don't like watching him), but how can people genuinely look at season 2 and say the other characters didn't get substantial plots and character developments? Or that Kara/Alex didn't have scenes or plots in season 2 that weren't about their love lives when they clearly did (again adding to that that I highly disagree that you can't have meaningful and highly worthwhile sister scenes that also mention love lives). Speaking of which, which scene to do you mean? The one that starts out with Kara saying it's okay for Alex to enjoy her bridal shower with her fiancee because Kara's problems (imo heavily implied to mean her Mon-El problems) don't affect that Kara is happy for Alex and Alex' love life? And that then switched to a Kara/J'onn/Alex scene which is also about whether it's okay for Kara to leave the bridal shower? 

Quote

I don't know what you mean.  Kara didn't have any plot in this episode...she was window dressing at best.

Exactly, how is Kara being there mostly to witness J'onn's parental drama substantially different from when she did the same thing for Mon-El? Like from Kara's story perspective, what is the significant difference between this story and the one where she and Mon-El went to slaver's moon? Heck, I would even say Kara on Slaver's Moon was much more of a Kara story since the story started with Kara going out of her way to track down the runaway girl, talking a bit about her past and showing bravery without powers and gave a good pep talk. While this even had the completely pointless scene where J'onn gets into the ship just for the scene where he shoots down the White Martian who is holding Kara up and then is out of the ship immediately, getting a hero moment at the expense of Kara.

It's particularly ironic since one of the most stated complaints I heard about season 2 was, oh no, in season 2 people actually had storylines that weren't primarily about Kara. To me, this wasn't "Kara getting a storyline and J'onn has a part in it", this was "J'onn is getting a storyline about his dad and Kara gets a part in it". Just like Kara had parts in the J'onn/M'gann storyline last season. (btw, can you imagine, if Kara had skipped out on her sister's bridal shower to support a parent storyline for Mon-El? I wonder if anybody would have praised that storyline.) 

Now, I'm not knocking the episode, it was nice enough, though it dragged in places. But then again, I actually liked season 2 and I enjoyed that people got their own storylines there at times. And I'm not trying to argue that just because somebody likes this episode they would have to like the Slaver's Moon episode. I think "I like this story better because it had J'onn it in, and I like watching J'onn more than I like watching Mon-El" is a perfectly valid reason. But the episode isn't structurally more about Kara just because J'onn isn't interested in getting into her pants. It was still squarely about him and Kara served his backstory storyline. And that's completely fine as far as I'm concerned. 

Maybe there is some sort of fundamental misunderstanding where some people say "storyline" (in the context of people not having storylines), but really only mean "storyline with Kara" (note that Maggie had a storyline this episode, but it wasn't related to Kara at all and as such contributed nothing to Kara's story, it "only" furthered Maggie and Alex story). And I just really disagree with the concept that storylines only "count" when Kara is in it too. It's not like character development for other characters doesn't happen just because Kara is not there to witness it. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by tofutan

[LadyAmalthea]

They finally get rid of that silly opening voiceover, only to replace it with a worse one?  Seriously, what needs explaining to new viewers that couldn't be gleaned from just watching the show?  

I've been a fan of David Harewood since BBC's Robin Hood, it was nice to see him get some screentime.

[JapMo]

10 hours ago, tofutan said:

Season 1 had no Mon-El and this is supposedly still the most we ever got of J'onn?

James got an episode where he had way more screentime than Kara in season 2 when Mon-El was still around. And just because people didn't like the Guardian storyline doesn't change that it was a storyline. As was Winn falling in love with Lyra. As was Winn having mini PTSD after being attacked while out with Guardian. 

And how is Maggie's storyline with her father less about her sexuality than her having cheated on her ex? 

I have no problem with people not liking Mon-El, tastes differ, but some of the accusations leveled against him just make no sense to me. Like, I get the accusation of him having too much screentime (especially for people who don't like watching him), but how can people genuinely look at season 2 and say the other characters didn't get substantial plots and character developments? Or that Kara/Alex didn't have scenes or plots in season 2 that weren't about their love lives when they clearly did (again adding to that that I highly disagree that you can't have meaningful and highly worthwhile sister scenes that also mention love lives). Speaking of which, which scene to do you mean? The one that starts out with Kara saying it's okay for Alex to enjoy her bridal shower with her fiancee because Kara's problems (imo heavily implied to mean her Mon-El problems) don't affect that Kara is happy for Alex and Alex' love life? And that then switched to a Kara/J'onn/Alex scene which is also about whether it's okay for Kara to leave the bridal shower? 

Quote

I don't know what you mean.  Kara didn't have any plot in this episode...she was window dressing at best.

Exactly, how is Kara being there mostly to witness J'onn's parental drama substantially different from when she did the same thing for Mon-El? Like from Kara's story perspective, what is the significant difference between this story and the one where she and Mon-El went to slaver's moon? Heck, I would even say Kara on Slaver's Moon was much more of a Kara story since the story started with Kara going out of her way to track down the runaway girl, talking a bit about her past and showing bravery without powers and gave a good pep talk. While this even had the completely pointless scene where J'onn gets into the ship just for the scene where he shoots down the White Martian who is holding Kara up and then is out of the ship immediately, getting a hero moment at the expense of Kara.

It's particularly ironic since one of the most stated complaints I heard about season 2 was, oh no, in season 2 people actually had storylines that weren't primarily about Kara. To me, this wasn't "Kara getting a storyline and J'onn has a part in it", this was "J'onn is getting a storyline about his dad and Kara gets a part in it". Just like Kara had parts in the J'onn/M'gann storyline last season. (btw, can you imagine, if Kara had skipped out on her sister's bridal shower to support a parent storyline for Mon-El? I wonder if anybody would have praised that storyline.) 

Now, I'm not knocking the episode, it was nice enough, though it dragged in places. But then again, I actually liked season 2 and I enjoyed that people got their own storylines there at times. And I'm not trying to argue that just because somebody likes this episode they would have to like the Slaver's Moon episode. I think "I like this story better because it had J'onn it in, and I like watching J'onn more than I like watching Mon-El" is a perfectly valid reason. But the episode isn't structurally more about Kara just because J'onn isn't interested in getting into her pants. It was still squarely about him and Kara served his backstory storyline. And that's completely fine as far as I'm concerned. 

Maybe there is some sort of fundamental misunderstanding where some people say "storyline" (in the context of people not having storylines), but really only mean "storyline with Kara" (note that Maggie had a storyline this episode, but it wasn't related to Kara at all and as such contributed nothing to Kara's story, it "only" furthered Maggie and Alex story). And I just really disagree with the concept that storylines only "count" when Kara is in it too. It's not like character development for other characters doesn't happen just because Kara is not there to witness it. 

Edited 9 hours ago by tofutan.

Totally agree with everything you said.  I've never understood why Kara must be the main focus of every story, just because the show is called "Supergirl".       

[bettername2come]

On 10/23/2017 at 10:23 PM, mtlchick said:

They picked the wrong Britney song though: "Oops I Did It Again" was set on MARS, show.  Come on!  Get with your 2000s music! 

This. I was so excited before I realized they picked the wrong song.

On 10/24/2017 at 10:59 AM, tofutan said:

Kara loves N'Sync and was a Justin/Britney shipper. So I would say it's pretty in character that she loves Britney Spears. 

As much I see her shipping as totally in character, it is weird considering they weren't even together by the time Kara got to earth. But it's kind of cute that that is what Kara dove into when learning about earth culture.

I always love seeing Carl Lumbly.

[SyncMaster]

On 10/23/2017 at 7:23 PM, mtlchick said:

Sidestepping the obvious of "why are they discussing a wall when it's happening on another UNIVERSE from the rest of the DCTV?"... my first thought was "no crisis at Catco for a change? Phew!"

I was surprised there was no major problem in the city at all during Kara's absence from the planet but I suppose even a large city would have down times.

On 10/24/2017 at 10:19 AM, iMonrey said:

I wish they had just gone the simpler route of Maggie's parents being religious and not accepting a gay lifestyle. That actually would be realistic. Maybe the show was overly concerned with bringing politics into it or afraid of slamming religion. I don't get it.

With Maggie's family being Mexican, and presumably Catholic, I thought that was going to be her father's underlying explanation for his problem with her lesbianism when she was a youngster.  The explanation that he gave barely made sense.

On 10/24/2017 at 9:48 PM, CletusMusashi said:

Also, can't Green Martians fly? If so, shouldn't Papa Jones be less amazed when Supergirl does it?

And finally, why do at least half the people in the universe speak fluent English?

I thought Jonn's father might have been surprised that a non-Martian had the ability to fly but are Martians shown to fly on Mars?  I can't remember how they get around.

On 10/24/2017 at 10:06 PM, CletusMusashi said:

So Mr. J learned English by reading his son's mind, without picking up anything else?

It does seem unlikely that Jonn's father could learn the English language by scanning Jonn's mind but that he'd still be unable to confirm Jonn's claim of being his son.

[legaleagle53]

3 hours ago, SyncMaster said:

It does seem unlikely that Jonn's father could learn the English language by scanning Jonn's mind but that he'd still be unable to confirm Jonn's claim of being his son.

Actually, it's very likely.  Telepaths are very much aware that people can disguise their thoughts and implant false thoughts and false memories into others' minds.  J'onn's father simply assumed that that's what J'onn was doing because the White Martians had been doing the same thing in an attempt to break him for over 200 years.  It was only when J'onn was able to trigger one of his father's most cherished memories -- one that only J'onn, his daughters, and his father would have shared -- that J'onn's father realized that he really was dealing with the son he'd spent the last 200 years believing he would never see again.

Edited October 30, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Featherhat]

7 hours ago, SyncMaster said:

With Maggie's family being Mexican, and presumably Catholic, I thought that was going to be her father's underlying explanation for his problem with her lesbianism when she was a youngster.  The explanation that he gave barely made sense.

Well if that had been the explanation they wouldn't have been able to throw in some well written and subtle pointed sledgehammer to the face political commentary. And maybe they wanted to be a bit different from the regular "only religious parents can't except their children's sexuality. It still doesn't make much sense though "I'm so worried about you having to face extra discrimination like I have all my life that I threw you out of the house, cut off contact with you and refuse to see that you have a support network of people who love you and your fiancée. Yeah that made total sense. He definitely became the bigot he hates in other people. 

[statsgirl]

The Arrowverse shows try to be politically relevant but it usually comes off as heavy-handed.  I take Maggie's father's objections in that vein.  But it is true that outsiders and minorities often try to "pass" or go under the wire.

On 10/26/2017 at 4:42 AM, tofutan said:

Season 1 had no Mon-El and this is supposedly still the most we ever got of J'onn?

James got an episode where he had way more screentime than Kara in season 2 when Mon-El was still around. And just because people didn't like the Guardian storyline doesn't change that it was a storyline. As was Winn falling in love with Lyra. As was Winn having mini PTSD after being attacked while out with Guardian. 

And how is Maggie's storyline with her father less about her sexuality than her having cheated on her ex? 

I have no problem with people not liking Mon-El, tastes differ, but some of the accusations leveled against him just make no sense to me. Like, I get the accusation of him having too much screentime (especially for people who don't like watching him), but how can people genuinely look at season 2 and say the other characters didn't get substantial plots and character developments? Or that Kara/Alex didn't have scenes or plots in season 2 that weren't about their love lives when they clearly did (again adding to that that I highly disagree that you can't have meaningful and highly worthwhile sister scenes that also mention love lives). Speaking of which, which scene to do you mean? The one that starts out with Kara saying it's okay for Alex to enjoy her bridal shower with her fiancee because Kara's problems (imo heavily implied to mean her Mon-El problems) don't affect that Kara is happy for Alex and Alex' love life? And that then switched to a Kara/J'onn/Alex scene which is also about whether it's okay for Kara to leave the bridal shower? 

Exactly, how is Kara being there mostly to witness J'onn's parental drama substantially different from when she did the same thing for Mon-El? Like from Kara's story perspective, what is the significant difference between this story and the one where she and Mon-El went to slaver's moon?

J'onn said that his mission would have failed if Kara had not been there to help.  I thought she was more than window dressing.  There isn't another character on the show that I can think of that could have replaced Kara in this episode.

I don't recall an episode in season 2 where James had more screentime than Kara.  Slaver's Moon is a perfect example of an episode that James should have been in  because they needed the fighting power but he wasn't in the episode art all.  Winn was better placed at the DEO than he was at Catco to be a part of the show but both James' Guardian and Winn's Lyra storylines were hastily cobbled together and awkwardly placed when the EPs realized that neither James nor Winn had any real role in Supergirl s2.  Did we learn anything about Winn in s2?  Not as much as in the single episode in s1 with his father.  His PTSD was one-and-done, unlike Cisco's yips on The Flash. Yes, they are rushing Maggie's storyline for reasons this season but at least we're getting to know her and who she is.  Season 2 gave us very little on her other than that (terrible to me) Valentine's Day episode.

I think the problem is partly that Mon El took up so much screentime but mostly that the writers lost interest in any other character other than Alex's coming out because they were so in love with Mon El.    And even Alex's arc was superficially done with only a little depth about her feelings. (I recall one scene with her telling Kara about how she felt when she was younger and that's it.)

Quote

Exactly, how is Kara being there mostly to witness J'onn's parental drama substantially different from when she did the same thing for Mon-El?

One difference for me is that it only took one episode.

Of course, if J'onn's parental drama ends up eating up much of season 3, I'll take that back.

ETA:  I was thinking about the differences in Mon El's parental return and J'onn's while I was working out (cuz it's boring for me).  They were both "I thought I was the only survivor of my race but look!  here's my dad/people". 

But there are a number of differences, most obviously the length of the arcs.  While I expect to see J'onn's father again I don't think he will be the season's Big Bad as Mon El's mother was or be in as many episodes. 

Mon El was welcomed with open arms by his parents; J'onn had to fight to get his father to accept him.

For J'onn's story, there was also the contrast between his father, a priest,and  the weapon the rebellion wanted and the war-like way J'onn has been spending his life, which brought drama to the episode. For Mon El, the drama came from "I don't want to leave my girlfriend" and secondarily from him disliking their life style. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by statsgirl

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 10/29/2017 at 10:20 PM, legaleagle53 said:

Actually, it's very likely.  Telepaths are very much aware that people can disguise their thoughts and implant false thoughts and false memories into others' minds.  J'onn's father simply assumed that that's what J'onn was doing because the White Martians had been doing the same thing in an attempt to break him for over 200 years.  It was only when J'onn was able to trigger one of his father's most cherished memories -- one that only J'onn, his daughters, and his father would have shared -- that J'onn's father realized that he really was dealing with the son he'd spent the last 200 years believing he would never see again.

But other than DRAMA! there is no reason why J'onn didn't simply say, "Here's proof! My memory of the time you surprised me on my 125th birthday!" up front, or give dozens of similar memories that would help prove that he was really J'onn. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/24/2017 at 9:25 AM, ACW said:

On 10/24/2017 at 9:04 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Re: Mars's atmosphere, I just took it on faith that it has a breathable atmosphere in the Supergirl verse. 

Alex didn't seem to think she could survive on Mars.

Breathable to Supergirl, not Alex.  Did Krypton have the same atmosphere as Earth?  As legaleagle53 said above, Supergirl is still under a yellow sun on Mars, which makes a lot of things possible.

On 10/25/2017 at 0:48 AM, CletusMusashi said:

I'm pretty sure there's no earth radio on Mars, so... Jonn keeps Britney Spears music in his car?

And finally, why do at least half the people in the universe speak fluent English?

I assumed the music was on a cassette.  Also, J'onn and his father could have been speaking Martian to each other, at least, translated for the tv audience's benefit.

On 10/25/2017 at 9:19 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

On 10/24/2017 at 7:12 PM, Wordsworth said:

So Maggie's dad - a legal immigrant - abandons his daughter 10-15 years ago when she was 14 all because Trump wants to build a wall to keep out illegal immigrants right now. 

Like others, this had me doing a treble and quadruple head check. What the fuck, now? Where is President Lynda Wonder Woman Carter? SHE'S the PRESIDENT on the EARTH. Just STOP IT, show.

As others have said, Trump is not president in this universe, Lynda Cater's character is.  Rather, the Speaker of the House has been espousing the same policies and opinions, wall and all, as mentioned by Cat at a press conference in the first episode of the season.

On 10/25/2017 at 11:34 AM, sugarbaker design said:

Who could blame her.  He kicked out his fourteen year old daughter,

He actually dropped her off at the house of her aunt, her Tía.   (That must have been an interesting conversation:  "Maggie told another 8th grade girl that she liked her today at school.  She can't live at home anymore; do you want her?)  Maybe the aunt's last name was Sawyer.  She must have at least become Maggie's legal guardian, and perhaps she adopted her. Why wasn't she at the shower?

Edited November 14, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[sugarbaker design]

8 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Who could blame her.  He kicked out his fourteen year old daughter,

 

8 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

He actually dropped her off at the house of her aunt, her Tía. 

Before he dropped her off, he kicked his fourteen year old daughter out of her home.  Period.  Where she wound up is not important.  

[AudienceofOne]

No Catco this week. Is this because they’re rebuilding the roof?

Roof watch: week 2

I don’t like getting broads on boards but can we wait till Mon El is back before complaining about him.? Its like people think he’s capable of ruining a show he isn’t even in.