S19.E04: No Good Reason

[Aethera]

Quote

A teenager disappears after schoolmates make her the subject of a vicious cyberbullying attack.

[QueenMab]

.....and St. Benson saves her from jumping off a roof and convinces Barba to prosecute a laptop.

[25thID]

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 6:36 PM, QueenMab said:

.....and St. Benson saves her from jumping off a roof and convinces Barba to prosecute a laptop.

Even if it's not in in their jurisdiction.....and happened 20 years ago....and only if it's a male laptop.  Hey, she means business!

[QueenMab]

25thID.....wanna bet we're not very far off track on this one? LOL!  

[25thID]

My main concern is that the laptop committed its especially heinous crime(s) while in international waters......what then, QueenMab? What then? Who will speak for the victim, and force her to testify, and how?

[QueenMab]

Finn. Who else? :)

[ForeverAlone]

Yet another "nice guy" strikes again. 

I did like the callback to season 14's "Girl Dishonored", and I was glad Amanda was the one who talked the girl down from suicide. After all, she was the one who felt responsible for not preventing Lindsay's suicide. 

I just wish the show didn't force situations where it was all about Olivia. Meaning, she didn't need to be in every freaking scene. There is no reason Amanda had to call in Olivia to question some suspects. That is a job that was handled by the detectives when it was Cragen running the team. Then of course Olivia is the one who had to tell Andrew that he had to allocute in open court. No, that is Rafael's call. Of course the show has been pulling this crap for years, but I will never stop complaining about it. 

And the ending just felt a little too PSA for me. Yeah, I know this was a takeoff of 13 Reasons Why, but it also felt like too much like an agenda piece. But those things have always felt uncomfortable for me on the show. I prefer my crime procedurals to be more straight up stories and not blatant talking pieces. 

[wonderwoman]

2 minutes ago, ForeverAlone said:

the ending just felt a little too PSA for me. Yeah, I know this was a takeoff of 13 Reasons Why, but it also felt like too much like an agenda piece. But those things have always felt uncomfortable for me on the show. I prefer my crime procedurals to be more straight up stories an

This! I know we were supposed to feel come combination of outrage and uplift. Really find these less-than-subtle PSAs patronizing and downright nauseating. 

[Gigglepuff]

Yawn. I want to watch a police procedural, not a PSA for junior high school kid. 

That video opening reminded me of some bad 1990's shoot when hand held camcorders first came out. All it needed was the star wipe. 

I liked the subtle transition of Mandy, from peppy high school girl, to dark punk with a nose ring, then back to peppy again - sans nose ring! Subtle! Superb writing, direction right there. 

St. Benson saves the day, etc, etc, etc. 

Not as terrible as last week, but not great. 

[ForeverAlone]

Yes, that is another thing. I don't spend any time around teenagers, so I don't know what they are like. So I kept wondering if what we saw in this episode was how teenagers actually are. This show has a tendency to get teenagers wrong, and Mandy's vlog at the beginning just felt off to me. But I wouldn't know for sure. 

[Maximum Taco]

Ugh I could not stand that completely unnecessary final scene, and I skipped through most of it.

Remember when Law and Order used to just fade to black after the courtroom scene in order to let you draw your own conclusions, instead of hammering the message through your skull?

Not only does St. Benson manage to be the best detective ever she also has the time to make sure everyone stops their bullying at Hudson High School without judging anybody.

Hooray for St Benson. Barf. 

[balmz]

ok episode,

 

i liked the scenes with amanda talking to the girl, i would have rather that amanda consoled her and was the one who talked at the school in the end, not olivia

 

the ending was kinda preachy but it does have a important message you need to know, again it should have been amanda

 

don't care for the noah drama, there's no reason they can't do shared custody

[wknt3]

The Good:
Carisi and Rollins. Nice to see them still doing a lot of the fieldwork, their relationship was well written, and nice use of continuity and giving a non-Benson squad member a chance to be the hero. They really used Benson well at first dealing with the parents, leading interrogations and supervising until it devolved into St. Benson, Protector of Victims.
Solid acting from the guest cast as usual. It would be nice if the main guest stars actually were believable as high school sophomores, but they did a good job nonetheless. Especially conveying Mandy's emotional turmoil without beating us over the head with it. It's a shame that the young guest star gave a better, more subtle and nuanced performance than the award winning star of the show, but it was there for all to see.
The legal side recovered from last week's slip back into Queen Benson Arbiter of Justice territory. Barba was clearly in charge again and pointing out the difference between what they wanted and what was legal and practical. I was a bit annoyed to have Liv taking it upon herself to decide Andrew had to allocute, but I can let it slide since there was a lot of focus on the legal side and it was handled so much better than what we had been getting before and since Pod Barba has disappeared again.
Benoah was on the back burner.

The Bad:
The video in the opening seemed more like something Michael Chernuchin had in a drawer from his time on the mothership than anything that is supposed to be remotely realistic. I don't follow what teenage girls are doing online since I don't want to inspire an SVU episode myself, but it felt at least 10 years out of date and more like 15.
With Ice-T taking an episode we really felt the lack of enough cast members. They used the non-Mariska cast better than they have for the past season and a half in sthe initial scenes, and even later on at times but it was still a problem early on even before Mariska's ego took over and she was hogging the screen.
Mariska's acting during the scene when they were tracing the phone. Shut the hell up, and dial the facial expressions back about 500 percent. You know better. I can turn on USA at random and chances are that within 30 minutes they'll be showing a scene that proves you used to be very good at this.
St. Benson was in full effect and letting Rollins be the one to get through to a victim in crisis was only partial relief, especially since in the end she accepted Benson as her lord and savior and Rollins was back to second fiddle.
That PSA at the end was brutal. I mean terrible. I mean it was so bad I was actually saying to myself "you know this is time that might be better spent on Benoah..."

Overall it was better than last week, and it continues to be leaps and bounds ahead of last season. It also shows that there is a clear benefit to devoting time to the Benoah custody subplot as when they keep it to a few lines they are compelled to give Mariska the same amount of screen time and it will be spent in ways that hurt the much improved COTW plots. If Benoah is the price we have to pay to minimize St. Benson and get interesting cases and the squad out in the field so be it. It would be great if we get the improved characterization and writing on the legal side with the nuanced exploration of social issues we got at the beginning of season 17, but I'll take what I can get as long as we avoid a repeat of last season.  Although it would be nice if we could go at least 3 or 4 episodes without a victim is reluctant to testify plot. Even if they are better done than last year and not every episode and even if it what real life sex crime prosectutions are dealing with all the time. We need a little variety as viewers and realism at the expense of watchability went out back in Season 1.

Edited October 19, 2017 by wknt3
revised and extended my remarks

[CleoCaesar]

That PSA was just embarrassingly bad. Is this an Afterschool Special or what?

4 episodes this season, and all 4 episodes' perp was a well-off white male. This is really starting to come off as agenda-pushing at this point.

I watched a few old-school reruns the other day and it really was a totally different show when it was Benson and Unstabler, and Cragen and Finn and Munch and an actual police procedural. Not this weak-ass "It's obvious who the perp is, let's breeze through the actual crime solving and instead have a cringy PSA aimed at...someone".

[Gigglepuff]

2 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

That PSA was just embarrassingly bad. Is this an Afterschool Special or what?

4 episodes this season, and all 4 episodes' perp was a well-off white male. This is really starting to come off as agenda-pushing at this point.

I watched a few old-school reruns the other day and it really was a totally different show when it was Benson and Unstabler, and Cragen and Finn and Munch and an actual police procedural. Not this weak-ass "It's obvious who the perp is, let's breeze through the actual crime solving and instead have a cringy PSA aimed at...someone".

And yet again, another pretty, young, white victim. Is there no diversity down at Central Casting or wherever the show get their extras from? 

[QueenMab]

So.....basically, I wasn't far off? Not on here yet but....sounds familiar.

[MerBearHou]

Couple of thoughts IMHO:

I'm tired of the white, handsome, privileged guy always being the criminal.  Can't he just ONCE be a decent guy?

I'm so tired of Barba needing Benson's lightbulb moments and guidance for him to practice law and win cases.  It just doesn't ring true and it diminishes Barba which is REALLY not a good idea for the show.  

I have faithfully watched Law & Order since Day One in all of its incarnations.  With SVU being the last one standing, I realized tonight that I would continue watching it with everyone on the force EXCEPT Benson.  Please let Mariska move on.  Let the others shine.  They are extremely capable, engaging, unique, and always hold my attention.  St. Benson and Mariska have worn out their welcome and I totally agree with the poster above about Mariska's overdone facial expressions -- they are ridiculous and distracting.  

Edited October 19, 2017 by MerBearHou

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

a takeoff of 13 Reasons Why

I've never seen that show so I can't make a comparison but as I was watching this episode I thought it was "ripped from" Louise O'Neill's young adult book, Asking for It. The book is told more from the girl's POV but the general gist is the same. The girl first got victimized by the group of boys who raped her and then later by social media. She is so addicted to Twitter and Facebook that her family confiscates her internet-accessible devices because the stuff aimed at her is soul-destroying. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) she doesn't have an Olivia Benson involved in her case to right all wrongs. The book actually drops several references to SVU, some obvious and others more subtle. Perhaps the producers of SVU were waving back at the author?

I wasn't paying full attention near the end. Was that school assembly voluntary or mandatory? I have a hard time imagining kids that age would out themselves the way they did in that final scene. Wouldn't they be afraid of also getting bullied on social media?

[QueenMab]

OMG in Heaven! 15 minutes in and Benson already over the top. And what's with the striped blouse? Is she supposed to be preggers? And its Barba's..(soap ) . OMG.

[LibertarianSlut]

This show could stand a dose of realism. Just a healthy dose, and I would cheerily go back to suspending disbelief. But I dream...

 

The end didn't just bother me cause it was a PSA, but because I think it was criminally negligent (or at least professionally negligent) on Liv's part. As a law enforcement officer, isn't she a mandated reporter?

 

In what universe does a LEO unilaterally conduct a high school assembly in which she encourages minors to recount their heretofore unreported experiences as victims of felonies and not act on this? IRL, she would be fired & Trump would be Tweeting about it.

 

I have so many issues with the stupidity of this show that I hesitate to get started. Liv & co were so desperate to locate the victim that when they find she is in Newark they drive all the way over state lines and risk her fleeing during the intervening 40 minutes instead of, I dunno, calling local Newark police to take her into custody?

 

The defense attorney who allowed the minor to spontaneously confess to the rape without so much of a peep of protest would be professionally reprimanded and likely disbarred so fast his head would spin. Once the minor's parents invoked his Constitutional right to counsel, the minor's exposure to the police would be extremely limited and likely as a formality after his lawyer had already worked out a deal with the state.

 

Why don't any of these perps employ at least a mildly interesting strategy? Each of the three suspects could have pointed the finger at the other(s), and it would have been enough to destroy reasonable doubt. Barbra would have seen this and played ball big time. No sex offender registry. Unless Liv did her job and presented physical evidence, of which there was no mention. On a police procedural. Go figure. What exactly are the writers doing in the writing room? Drinking mimosas and using this show as a vehicle to get in touch with their inner children?

 

There is no Law. And very little Order.

[MelGoLightly]

16 minutes ago, QueenMab said:

OMG in Heaven! 15 minutes in and Benson already over the top. And what's with the striped blouse? Is she supposed to be preggers? And its Barba's..(soap ) . OMG.

Ha, I thought the same thing about her maybe being pregnant. Maybe it's because I'm starting to realize when I watch older episodes when she *is* pregnant that she *is* pregnant and I wasn't paying attention. 

 

I thought this was a good episode, but in a really bizarre way. It was so off the mark from the usual SVU cadence. There was definitely a PSA feel to it, but I thought content and message wise, it was a solid throwback to the original SVU episodes that blatantly called out straight up assault that gets ignored most of the time. 

 

In other news, Sunny's suits are getting more tailored and more tailored to the point that I feel like they will be actual skin soon. I'm not upset. 

[QueenMab]

Does MH actually think the 15 year olds are watching this show? OMG.  Pastor Benson...preach it sister! Manhattan SVU...where pretty much everything wealthy, connected and exclusive in NYC is located, which includes unfortunately a lot of white people with f'd up white kids. Barba looking like Barba... The best chopped layered haircut. Looks good during/after sex. The darker the suit, the better he looks IMO.

[Snookums]

Quote

Yet another "nice guy" strikes again.

If the damn show had actually focused on this it would have been the kind of good television the PSA at the end was hammering with all the subtlety of a drunk moose on roller skates. 

As a society we don't do anywhere near enough to make boys understand that personally believing themselves to be "good guys" is not some kind of I Deserve Everything backstage pass. That's EXACTLY how shit like this happens--Mandy was at a party with friends that she had known and trusted for years, but that wasn't enough to protect her from not only sexual assault but public humiliation from three boys who did this heinous thing and truly couldn't seem to grasp for way too long a time that they didn't get to negate the consequences because "they were just joking." Having a bunch of teenagers doing anything but rolling their eyes and gearing up for a second wave attack on Mandy after that assembly was ridiculous.

 

Quote

 Liv & co were so desperate to locate the victim that when they find she is in Newark they drive all the way over state lines and risk her fleeing during the intervening 40 minutes instead of, I dunno, calling local Newark police to take her into custody?

THIIIIISSSSSS A MILLION TIMES. The police procedures have gotten so damn bad on this show it's making The Following look well grounded and meticulously researched.

[RedheadZombie]

I enjoyed this episode.   The actor who played Mandy, Lizzie from The Walking Dead, Brighton Sharbino, did a great job. I know everyone seems to hate Mariska and Olivia, but I'm not there yet.   

[Xeliou66]

Well, here's my take.

The case was pretty good, I liked how we didn't know what happened to Mandy at first, and then didn't know who did what, and then had to deal with trying to prove it. It was suspenseful throughout and an interesting case and dealt with very real topics. 

The stuff that I didn't like : No Fin. I really missed him, no explanation for his absence but he was sorely missed. 

Barba was great in the scenes he was in, but he wasn't used enough. 

The worst part of the episode was the fucking PSA at the end. It was the preachiest SVU has ever gotten and that is saying something. The scene had no impact on the case, the case was over, it was just a pure PSA designed so Mariska could get on her soapbox and lecture the audience. If I wanted a sermon I would go to church, if I wanted preach television I would watch Hallmark or Lifetime. I'm so sick of St Olivia being hailed as the savior of eveyrone and of the constant PSA messages from MH and her foundation. It was so bad tonight that I had to fast forward through the last couple of minutes of it just to see if there was anything else relevant to the storyline on the episode, and there wasn't. 

The opening scene was bad as well, what the hell was the point of the 3 minute video intro? It was boring and wasted time. 

I found the scene hilarious where Benson was begging Mandy not to turn off the feed before they could trace it, it was hilarious because it's not like Mandy could hear her and it was so unprofessional for an experienced professional like Benson to do that. Mariska's over the top acting was hilariously bad, even more so than normal. 

I didn't like how remorseful and apologetic the rapist was, I liked it ending in a plea deal fine but it was unrealistic to have him so apologetic, most rapists aren't. The reactions from the teens in the auditorium were laughable as well, teens wouldn't suddenly start confessing their experiences with traumatic stuff like that and they wouldn't suddenly change their behavior after a sermon from St Olivia. The ending of this episode was like Mariska trying to create a dream scenario for what she wants to happen after a rape : the rapist is not only caught but apologizes in court and is remorseful, and the victim not only speaks out but is able to get a bunch of other people to speak out and start trying to make changes to high school culture. It was like Mariska was trying to create a fantasy scenario for rape victims. It was supposed to be "empowering" or "uplifting" but I found it unwatchable, cringeworthy and nauseating.

The L&O franchise has usually done a great job of dealing with controversial and important issues with subtlety and through character discussions, tonight's episode had all the subtlety of getting whacked on the head with a mallet. I'm really sick of Mariska's preaching, the show needs to become more subtle in getting a message across, the mothership was always great at this. 

So while I liked the case overall, the terrible end and beginning scenes plus no Fin and underuse of Barba make this episode barely better than last weeks. 

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I enjoyed this episode.   The actor who played Mandy, Lizzie from The Walking Dead, Brighton Sharbino, did a great job. I know everyone seems to hate Mariska and Olivia, but I'm not there yet.   

We don't hate her. On the contrary, we thought she was an intricate part of the show way back when. But for some ungodly reason,  the producers (and Mariska Hargitay is one of them) have decided to almost focus entirely on the character of Olivia Benson. Last night's episode was a prime example. They even removed another character (Fin, I hope it's only temporary) just to give her more lines and attention. A lot of us agree, this format has really degraded the quality of the show just to satisfy Hargitay's ego.

[sockii]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

They even removed another character (Fin, I hope it's only temporary)

Ice always takes full advantage of his x-number-of-episodes-off-each-season-under-contract. Which I don't begrudge him but damn the show suffers when he's not there to add some bluntness and cut the crap.

 

7 hours ago, QueenMab said:

Does MH actually think the 15 year olds are watching this show? OMG.

Actually the only viewers I've seen praising this episode up as good are the teen female fans on Tumblr and Twitter. I don't get it, but as much as I hate it, there does seem to be some aspect of this St. Benson-saves-the-world story telling that appeals to a certain audience. Me, I miss those old, actual procedural episodes with plot twists and turns of the early years. I miss them like crazy.

This just felt weak and padded. Like too many of last season's episodes. Preachy, basically focused on convincing-a-victim-to-testify, only with the added element of teen and social media bullying. Bo-ring. The only parts I liked at all were when Sonny & Amanda got to lead certain scenes.

I noticed this one was (co)-written by Julie Martin, so maybe that's why it felt a lot like what I've hated from the last season or so.

[watcher1006]

I did not appreciate this episode. I was hoping this season they would back off the Olivia Benson: SVU formula but it is getting worse, and this one was over the top. Plus I didn't buy the idea that Andrew would cave and give the detectives and Barba everything they needed. But of course wrapping it up that way meant they could minimize the Order part of the case so they could put on the PSA at the end. It was just luck that Barba got as much time as he did on this episode.

12 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

I just wish the show didn't force situations where it was all about Olivia. Meaning, she didn't need to be in every freaking scene. There is no reason Amanda had to call in Olivia to question some suspects. That is a job that was handled by the detectives when it was Cragen running the team. Then of course Olivia is the one who had to tell Andrew that he had to allocute in open court. No, that is Rafael's call. Of course the show has been pulling this crap for years, but I will never stop complaining about it. 

When Cragen ran the squad, it could be assumed that he couldn't go out on cases himself because he was tied to his desk! There has to be a ton of paperwork associated with the job, when does Olivia Benson have time to do it? That is why there are detectives on the squad to work these cases, duh. The Olivia Benson show makes less of an effort all the time to capture the feel of police work.

[QueenMab]

NBLUTH.....what you said is a big complaint with a lot of us especially me. The soap opera fantasy world of SVU....immoral, unethical and unprofessional actions that only get rewarded, usually to Benson. A supposedly ambitious, experienced Harvard Law ADA who apparently can't do his job unless a big arrogant know it all cop is sitting behind him in court telling him how to do his job every step and who confers and discusses his courtroom strategy with said cop which is ethically a BIG NO NO. In fact, their whole "relationship" IRL, is a violation of every moral parameter and professional ethic of both their jobs. Yes, the fantasy soap opera world in which SVU exists bothers a lot of us. And makes the moments when they try to "get real" pushing Hargitay's agendas truly cringeworthy. You nailed it for me.

[JyDanzig]

Well... this episode had it's heart in the right place, but once again they tripped themselves up in many of the usual ways.  Will anything break them of this addiction to pretty young white victims?  I suppose I should just be relieved that this week's white male rapist was not also a powerful older man, they could have done a veer into some "it was all the school principal!" twist.

My main comment to add is: I find it completely insane that in this Benoah story, the scene we have skipped is the first meeting of Benson and Brooke Shields.  That first meeting is a scene I actually want to see!  It's possibly the ONLY scene this story suggests that I want to see!  And THAT'S what they skip over?  If you're going to end last week with a cliffhanger of opening the door to Brooke Shields, this week should start with Benson talking to Brooke Shields.  Having her just recap it to Rollins later is so unsatisfying.  (Though I do like the developing of the bond between Benson and Rollins)

This was also one of those episodes where they got too trapped on the sets and similar internal spaces, and it became so visually boring.  I always like the episodes more when you can definitely feel that they are in NYC, which you did not this week.

14 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

That video opening reminded me of some bad 1990's shoot when hand held camcorders first came out. All it needed was the star wipe

This!  That was a horrible opening.  And needlessly belabored, we needed about 25% of what we actually saw to get the point.

12 hours ago, N. Bluth said:

Why don't any of these perps employ at least a mildly interesting strategy? Each of the three suspects could have pointed the finger at the other(s), and it would have been enough to destroy reasonable doubt. Barbra would have seen this and played ball big time.

This is exactly what I was thinking.  During the arrest scene I was like "OK, here we go, this could be interesting!"  Then the very next scene we're told "two of those guys have already made deals against the other one" -- and not a moment too soon, because if they hadn't we might have to do a different story than the same story we do every week!

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I didn't like how remorseful and apologetic the rapist was, I liked it ending in a plea deal fine but it was unrealistic to have him so apologetic, most rapists aren't.

This was one thing I did like, I thought that was an effective turn he made at the end.  He didn't understand until then that he had committed a rape, and once he realized, he and his mom recognized the necessity of owning up to it -- it felt truthful to me, the way they executed it.  If it became the new standard SVU plot that every episode ended with the rapist tearful and remorseful, that would feel problematic, but as an occasional resolution I think it's good -- we do need some variety here.  They tried something similar last year in the Anthony Edwards episode, but it was written so terribly in that one, with the kid randomly jumping up in the middle of the trial and confessing to the rape and begging forgiveness.

Edited October 19, 2017 by JyDanzig

[wknt3]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The opening scene was bad as well, what the hell was the point of the 3 minute video intro? It was boring and wasted time.

The point was to establish that she had a major social media presence and show off her personality before the attack. It had a point and was a good idea itt was just poorly executed and not quite as crisply written as it should have been. I didn't find it boring, but that might have been because I was wondering if it was supposed to take place in the present or if it was deliberately dated.

 

3 hours ago, sockii said:

Ice always takes full advantage of his x-number-of-episodes-off-each-season-under-contract. Which I don't begrudge him but damn the show suffers when he's not there to add some bluntness and cut the crap.

Yeah thus week really shows why they should have taken the money they are spending on Brooke Shields and Philp Winchester and brought in some recurring characters, especially a new young detective. And an older sarcastic type ME, CSI, forensic psychologist who can bring the snark when Fin is off and do all the things the supporting cast used to do as far as delivering exposition, providing an outside POV and dramatic conflict, opening up different types of stories, etc. I can only imagine once the relief wears off that they have achieved basic competence again and we have returned to Mariska's ego being an anchor weighing down the show instead of a vortex sucking everything in and spitting it out as the same terrible script over and over the feeling of stagnation will return with the same few characters interacting in the same limited ways. I mean it's nice to see Rollins and Benson bonding over their shared experience as single mothers, but it doesn't replace what is missing.

[JyDanzig]

2 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

When Cragen ran the squad, it could be assumed that he couldn't go out on cases himself because he was tied to his desk! There has to be a ton of paperwork associated with the job, when does Olivia Benson have time to do it?

All the SVU paperwork is now handled by Lucy.

[Gigi43]

3 hours ago, sockii said:

11 hours ago, QueenMab said:

Does MH actually think the 15 year olds are watching this show? OMG.  Pastor Benson...preach it sister! Manhattan SVU...where pretty much everything wealthy, connected and exclusive in NYC is located, which includes unfortunately a lot of white people with f'd up white kids. Barba looking like Barba... The best chopped layered haircut. Looks good during/after sex. The darker the suit, the better he looks IMO.

Actually the only viewers I've seen praising this episode up as good are the teen female fans on Tumblr and Twitter. I don't get it, but as much as I hate it, there does seem to be some aspect of this St. Benson-saves-the-world story telling that appeals to a certain audience. Me, I miss those old, actual procedural episodes with plot twists and turns of the early years. I miss them like crazy.

 

I came here to mainly complain about "who was that for, this isn't a show teens watch." I still wonder if "a lot" of teens are watching or if the few are just the vocal ones. Episodes that are overly PSA like No Surrender at least (and it's not saying much) were about adult issues on what I consider an adult show.

 

I have not seen "13 Reasons Why" but I've heard people complain that, especially since that is a show that teenagers seem to watch, it sends a bad message that "people will always end up feeling bad about what they've done to you", and that just isn't always the case unfortunately. Best parts for me was Rollins callback to Girl Dishonered and connecting with Mandy, but then they killed it with St. Benson at the high school.

 

If every episode is going to be straight forward, girl accuses a guy, guy is actually guilty, justice is sought, Benson was right all the way through, there really isn't any point in continuing. When was the last time the accused was really the victim and Benson was snowed? Mr. Jackie in "Dissonant Voices" is the last one that I can think of at the moment and that was 4 seasons ago.

[HunterHunted]

34 minutes ago, JyDanzig said:

My main comment to add is: I find it completely insane that in this Benoah story, the scene we have skipped is the first meeting of Benson and Brooke Shields.  That first meeting is a scene I actually want to see!  It's possibly the ONLY scene this story suggests that I want to see!  And THAT'S what they skip over?  If you're going to end last week with a cliffhanger of opening the door to Brooke Shields, this week should start with Benson talking to Brooke Shields.  Having her just recap it to Rollins later is so unsatisfying.  (Though I do like the developing of the bond between Benson and Rollins)

I HATE the personal storylines, but you're right that this was big failure. They skipped over it because it would have provoked pathos for both characters and that's a no no. Liv must always be the most sympathetic character regardless of what the conflict might be. Can you imagine how tense that first scene with Brooke Shields could have been knowing that Noah was close by and possibly wondering where Liv was and when she was going to finish his story? By the time we really see Brooke, she's going to be a gorgon. This reminds me of the final seasons of Sex and the City where Sarah Jessica Parker had clearly told the writers to stop writing Carrie as if she had any failings and because of that direction Carrie came off as so much worse. That's the same that has been happening with Olivia. It's been happening for a while. 

[MorbidPet]

I'm a little back and forth on this episode. The opening wasn't great. I have a teenage sister and have sat through her & her friends vlogs out of big sister duty and even though they do great productions with just their phones Mandy's vlog did not feel authentic to me. They did a better job with Holden's Manifesto to get the authentic feel to it. 
But then there was the Amanda/Mandy scene (with Mariska interuptus of course) that got my attention and that I liked but also gnawed at the grudge I have with SVU for how poorly they dealt with Amanda's rape. I do like and appreciate continuity in tv shows so Amanda's 'pink clouding', mentioning Lindsay/her suicide, the Amanda tattoo from Strange Beauty, where things I appreciated. 

I do agree the ending was a bit preachy but I prefer it from yet another Benoah drama cliff hanger ending (damn them for having to throw two Benoah drama scenes in there sigh) and even though I could do without O Holy Benson literally in the spotligt it touched on some serious issues and with the #MeToo spamming my feeds for the last couple of days it struck a cord with me to see all them kids taking a stand one after the other (and I liked that they let one of Mandy's friends also stand up and that she also had a story of her own). It really is an epidemic. Both of sexual assault and the normalization of sexism, as well as the impact of bullying and beyond. Why can't we just treat others with decency and respect? 

One of my pet peeves with SVU is the Olivia whispering victim voice (gawd I hate it so much!) and it hit an all time high when it (& Benson aka MH) interupted that great scene with Amanda/Mandy. And then Benson got to hug Mandy on the court stairs and do the HS lecture when Amanda really was the one that saved the day. Wtf. 

Carisi did good (I find him cartoonish at times but not in this episode). I missed Fin/Ice. Barba seemed off and more like a prop to MH and nothing more. What a waste. I hated Lizzie (TWD) so so much even before she killed her über cool kid sister but I didn't see Lizzie so Brighton did a good job with her portray. The case itself seemed a little too predictable and then wrapped up with a bow as the friend turned rapist apologized in court but I've seen some FB comments from parents that watched this episode with their teens and it seems it opened up some convos and the cheesy ending got to many of them so I guess that's something good. 

I just hope the SVU team/writers also saw the many (many!) complaints after last week's episode regarding the constant Benoah drama. I was a bit surprised myself to see the hundreds and hundreds of likes some of the complaints got. This is something I've tried to voice for several seasons now that the Benoah drama is killing the show and making them lose viewers. I hope it finally starts to sink in when even the critical posts ranks high over at FB. Yeah probably not but one can hope right!? 

[vast wasteland]

I'm thinking maybe Liv and Danny from Blue Bloods should get married.  Each of them seems single handedly capable of solving every crime in their district.

And for me, this episode has the sappiest ending ever.  

 

Edited October 19, 2017 by vast wasteland

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, sockii said:

Ice always takes full advantage of his x-number-of-episodes-off-each-season-under-contract. Which I don't begrudge him but damn the show suffers when he's not there to add some bluntness and cut the crap.

 

Actually the only viewers I've seen praising this episode up as good are the teen female fans on Tumblr and Twitter. I don't get it, but as much as I hate it, there does seem to be some aspect of this St. Benson-saves-the-world story telling that appeals to a certain audience. Me, I miss those old, actual procedural episodes with plot twists and turns of the early years. I miss them like crazy.

This just felt weak and padded. Like too many of last season's episodes. Preachy, basically focused on convincing-a-victim-to-testify, only with the added element of teen and social media bullying. Bo-ring. The only parts I liked at all were when Sonny & Amanda got to lead certain scenes.

I noticed this one was (co)-written by Julie Martin, so maybe that's why it felt a lot like what I've hated from the last season or so.

Yeah definitely the people who like the St Olivia saves everyone episodes are younger female fangirls who love the Benson character and Mariska's preachiness. These fans don't represent the majority of SVU viewers, they are just some of the most vocal because of their extensive social media use. However I've always thought that most of these Benson fangirls were in their 20's, SVU has never seemed like a show that would appeal to most teenagers that this episode seemed directed at, and I have a feeling that most teenagers watching the episode didn't appreciate being treated like idiots or lectured at, cause that's what the episode did to the audience. 

It was so stupid how everyone in the auditorium suddenly changed after a sermon from St Olivia, so unrealistic it was laughable. Just goes to show how huge Mariska's ego has become that she wants to be portrayed as someone who can change the lives of dozens of people through one PSA. In real life, the teenagers would mostly ignore what St Olivia had to say and then just harass Mandy even more for making them sit through that PSA. 

[katisha]

Quote

Mariska's acting during the scene when they were tracing the phone. Shut the hell up, and dial the facial expressions back about 500 percent. You know better. I can turn on USA at random and chances are that within 30 minutes they'll be showing a scene that proves you used to be very good at this.ariska's acting during the scene when they were tracing the phone. Shut the hell up, and dial the facial expressions back about 500 percent. You know better. I can turn on USA at random and chances are that within 30 minutes they'll be showing a scene that proves you used to be very good at this.

Funny you should say that. Before watching this episode I watched 'Persona' from S10. MH had some very long scenes with Brenda Blethyn, who in my mind is a very fine actress, and MH more than held her own. So, yes, she WAS good in this show once but it feels eons ago.

I am not that familiar with today's teenagers but that first scene made me cringe. It didn't ring true at all.

Now I need to take something for the nausea brought on by that sickly final scene. Eewwww.

[shapeshifter]

In addition to the complaints above, it seemed really wrong that after having the students close their eyes in the darkened auditorium (presumably darkened so those peeking wouldn't easily see others) and then stand if they had been victims, that she had them open their eyes and look around even though a lot were still sitting. It felt like a betrayal, especially in a gossipy high school. I guess originally they were all standing at the end—which can be done by including things like "now stand if you've ever been afraid of being bullied if you stood up for someone else"—but I guess they wanted to have the seated guy speak up and say he was sorry for being an insensitve jerk. 

 

 

 

21 HOURS AGO, MORBIDPET SAID:

t touched on some serious issues and with the #MeToo spamming my feeds for the last couple of days it struck a cord with me to see all them kids taking a stand one after the other (and I liked that they let one of Mandy's friends also stand up and that she also had a story of her own). It really is an epidemic. Both of sexual assault and the normalization of sexism, as well as the impact of bullying and beyond. Why can't we just treat others with decency and respect? 

The very recent Me, Too campaign following the Weinstein reveals made me wonder if 18+ seasons of SVU episodes on network TV and Hulu might have contributed to what seems to at last be at last a sea change of calling out the powerful perpetrators. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by shapeshifter

[MarylandGirl]

This episode felt approximately two hours long. I was sure it was over at one point, then came back for that ridiculous PSA at end...

[CelticBlackCat]

The first half hour was the teen girl's video and the second half hour was the PSA brought to you by Saint Olivia.  The hour in between was the rape story.

[QueenMab]

The hour in between I barely watched. She was cute, then punk, then cute again, somebody painted on her and apparently sex was involved, everybody confessed everything to Barba who seemed to just be checking a piece of paper for most of it, at the end I needed a barf bag. Yeah..long and sanctimonious.

[Gigglepuff]

So is everyone down at SVU and NBC just yes men to MH? Who came up with that ending? MH, or writing staff that felt that scene would remind us that Benson is a hero and savior, just in case we forgot? I think the show has gotten a bit better than last season, but it's still an hour of obvious self congratulatory masturbation and ego stroking for MH. The rest of the cast is great. She really needs to go at this point.  

[Xeliou66]

I agree, I'm so sick of MH. The rest of the characters are great, but I'm so sick of St Olivia and how everything has to revolve around her. And it's obvious MH and her foundation have a huge input on the storylines, and I guarantee MH came up with that ending. It shows her huge her ego is that she wants to be portrayed as someone who can change dozens of people with just one speech. It's also interesting how eveyrone involved with SVU basically says that Mariska is so awesome and perfect blah blah blah, it's clear if they say anything else they will be out of a job. Mariska's ego is ruining the show and the over focus on Benson is the worst thing about SVU. 

[QueenMab]

I saw an onset interview with cast members about a year ago or so and Esparza was asked if he could live anywhere where would that be and he said " well, first of all I'd go live with Mariska because she's like my favorite person in the world" and MH called out " I'm sending your check" and I thought truer words never spoken. As long as he keeps being little bitch to her big bitch...she'll keep sending his paychecks. Is this really why she wanted to be producer? So everybody has to stroke her and do things her way? What kind of "reign of terror" dictatorship is going on there?!

[Xeliou66]

42 minutes ago, QueenMab said:

I saw an onset interview with cast members about a year ago or so and Esparza was asked if he could live anywhere where would that be and he said " well, first of all I'd go live with Mariska because she's like my favorite person in the world" and MH called out " I'm sending your check" and I thought truer words never spoken. As long as he keeps being little bitch to her big bitch...she'll keep sending his paychecks. Is this really why she wanted to be producer? So everybody has to stroke her and do things her way? What kind of "reign of terror" dictatorship is going on there?!

That pretty much sums up what Mariska is like, that's hilarious what Raul said in the interview. It's obvious eveyrone involved in the show has to basically bow down and worship her, eveyrone from other actors to writers to producers they all have to talk about what a wonderful amazing saintly human being MH is. Her ego has just gotten out of control, and it's obvious she has more creative decision power over the show than anyone including Churnuchin. It is also clear that Mariska doesn't give a damn about the show being intelligent and entertaining, she views the show as her personal pulpit to preach her agenda, and even admits she's the exact same person as Olivia basically. Which is somewhat scary, not only with how she is not even acting or pretending to anymore but I also feel sorry for those around her, Benson has become unbearable the last few years and I have a feeling Mariska is just as difficult. 

[WendyCR72]

I don't think Olivia Benson is any great shakes. She annoys me a lot. But maybe Mariska Hargitay is just a cool person and some do like her? Just saying. We'll never know, but maybe as a person, she is fun or whatever.

[QueenMab]

WendyCR72.....Understand you giving MH the benefit of the doubt, but, when a show takes a turn like this one did and makes it clear that the "producer" is not utilizing a good cast and well, supposedly good writers, to give us engaging stories, and instead uses them to blatantly push her own political agendas that usually alienates or just pisses off more viewers than pleases them, something is amiss. And it usually starts at the top. MH wanted to be at the top, "at the helm", have more control over the direction of the show. When that direction, week after week is clearly and only in the direction of her character at the expense of the rest of the cast and the stories in general, the one at the top not only gets the heat, they deserve it. MH wanted to be at the top and the top is where the buck stops. Her intolerable onscreen character and uber left bullish*t agendas are laid squarely at her feet. Because that's where they belong. When your at the top and things go wonkey, there's no one to blame but yourself. Hence, the severe criticism of MH. She wanted to be in charge. This massive crap flow has happened on her watch. So...yeah, she gets the crap back, deservedly so.

[wknt3]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I don't think Olivia Benson is any great shakes. She annoys me a lot. But maybe Mariska Hargitay is just a cool person and some do like her? Just saying. We'll never know, but maybe as a person, she is fun or whatever.

Actually from all available evidence two things are true. One is that Mariska's ego is out of control and has become a huge issue negatively affecting the creative output of SVU. The other is that she seems to be a nice person, well liked by her co-workers, and sincerely believes in the causes and positions she advocates. It's quite possible for both to be true. I suspect many of us here have known someone who was great in a particular position but when they get promoted can't expand their horizons and still see their success as the organization's success. They are great fun at office parties, say nice things about you, bring in money, and are usually great to work with (as long as they get their way) but insist on doing things the way that is best for them and can never put others ahead of them or understand that sometimes they need to sacrifice for the good of the whole. In an industry with a lot of malignant narcissists she is probably a benign narcissist and I can believe that she has genuinely good relationships with most/all of her co-workers.

[spacefly]

Quote

I enjoyed this episode.   The actor who played Mandy, Lizzie from The Walking Dead, Brighton Sharbino, did a great job. I know everyone seems to hate Mariska and Olivia, but I'm not there yet.   

The actress kind of bugged me as I kept seeing Lizzie and the psychopath she was. I kept thinking "just look at the flowers, look at the flowers"