Season 1 - 3 Discussion

[Pallas]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I know zero about fishing but does riding your horse into the river you're fishing from actually work?

I think what you'd need is a current driving the fish past the humans on horses, in the same way the fish would be driven past humans in waders, standing mid-stream. My worry was that a line would catch a horse. 

[zoey1996]

14 hours ago, DonnaJo said:

I, too, enjoy trying to understand the different plotlines, and are willing to put the time and energy in. Looks like as the series progresses, characters will be picked off as a result of the ongoing war between the Dutton's, the tribe, land developer, government etc. Already we have lost two family members. Looking forward to next week!

I know Kayce's brother-in-law was killed, but who else was lost?

Started watching this due to the article in Parade featuring Costner and the show.  So far, I'm in.  I'm sure some of it sailed right over my head, but mostly I'm able to follow and find it interesting.  Don't like the daughter (Beth?) and still sorting out some of the other characters.  I recognized the actor who played the senator, Jill Hennessey, from Crossing Jordan.  

[Jellybean13]

Just watched this today.  We found the plot a little hard to follow with all the legal talk and stuff.  It reminded me very much of the Don Johnson show, Blood and Oil, from a year or 2 ago.  We will watch again just for the house and the scenery.

I also did not recognize Cole Hauser.  He was Rip, the guy who wielded the brand and banged the daughter.  His hair seemed much darker than usual.

[2727]

On 6/22/2018 at 4:06 PM, margol29 said:

I feel for the son who is married to a Native woman. I have a feeling that he is going to be torn between two families in this upcoming war.

That's the story I was most interested in. Let me get to know the main family members and their history  and save the city council meeting (tm @JudyObscure) stuff for later.

The initial courtroom scene meant nothing because at that point I didn't know who, why, what or which side I was supposed to be rooting for.

[Pallas]

10 hours ago, zoey1996 said:

know Kayce's brother-in-law was killed, but who else was lost?

Kayce's brother Lee, shot by Kayce's brother-in-law, which is what prompted Kayce to kill him. That was the (other) Romeo and Juliet/West Side Story reference. I know the newscast referred to a third death, but I forgot it in trying to hang on as the show abruptly upped the stakes.

[kicksave]

I enjoyed the pilot despite its obvious flaws...I think for us East Coasters it gives us a glimpse into life in the West and that of a ranching family in the 21st century. Our knowledge of the ranching life and the intersecting of their livelihood with the environment, native Americans and the encroachment of those from other parts of the country (Californians) coming to places like Montana to live, is pretty much non existent. This show sheds a light on the all of that. If for nothing else, I do like seeing the beautiful landscapes and it has been shot all on location in Montana. I think the contrast between the Dutton home and the Indian Reservation was stunning in its reality. Will continue to watch it...the summer replacement shows on network TV are awful and there's just so much baseball I can watch! 

[rcc]

3 minutes ago, kicksave said:

I enjoyed the pilot despite its obvious flaws...I think for us East Coasters it gives us a glimpse into life in the West and that of a ranching family in the 21st century. Our knowledge of the ranching life and the intersecting of their livelihood with the environment, native Americans and the encroachment of those from other parts of the country (Californians) coming to places like Montana to live, is pretty much non existent. This show sheds a light on the all of that. If for nothing else, I do like seeing the beautiful landscapes and it has been shot all on location in Montana. I think the contrast between the Dutton home and the Indian Reservation was stunning in its reality. Will continue to watch it...the summer replacement shows on network TV are awful and there's just so much baseball I can watch! 

Also shot in Utah. Both beautiful states for this series to shoot.

[zoey1996]

@Pallas, thanks.  Wasn't the third death (actually the first) the truck driver in the beginning of the show?  After Dutton took care of his horse, he checked on the truck driver, who was dead.  Still not sure how that crash happened/what all was involved.

[roughing it]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 2:06 PM, margol29 said:

The daughter reminded me of a female J.R. Ewing. It's kind of funny that when a man acts that way he is shrewd, cunning or just plain evil, but when it is a woman she is a bitch.

Don't get me wrong, I love a strong, confidant, take-no-crap woman.  If Beth was portrayed as shrewd, cunning or just plain evil, I would be fine with it.  But the actress' performance comes across as trying too hard to be shrewd, cunning and just plain evil, which to me makes it comical and not natural.  Maybe she needs more time in the role, but I didn't find her believable.

[Ohwell]

One nitpick I have is that I have to turn the volume up much more than on other shows.  Then when commercials come on, I have to turn the volume down because it's too loud.  Also, I've found that in this and other shows, there seems to be a lot more fast talking and mumbling.  It's annoying.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The daughter reminded me of a female J.R. Ewing. It's kind of funny that when a man acts that way he is shrewd, cunning or just plain evil, but when it is a woman she is a bitch. 

While that's generally true, TV versions of that type are generally much more dynamic and compelling that this character is. I'm not sure if it's a casting fail or just bad writing or a combination of both, but it doesn't feel like she belongs on this show. She's a little too much of a cartoon.

[Ohwell]

One thing that confused me was that Cole Hauser's character didn't seem to be too pleased after he banged that daughter.  Since I've complained about the mumbling, I didn't quite understand their conversation before they had sex.  Did she blackmail him?  

She's a trainwreck. I swear, when she kissed Kayce on the cheek when she greeted him, I got some kind of sex vibe from her and it made me want to throw up in my mouth a little. 

[Cool Breeze]

Cole Hauser's character and the daughter had sex and, afterwards, he asked her to go some music festival.  She was fine up until that point and told him he always ruins it.  Apparently, she enjoys the physical relationship but can't handle/is uncomfortable/something, with any sort of emotional attachment.

[Ohwell]

Ok, thanks for the explanation.  He just kind of looked like he was "doing his duty" when they were having sex though.  

[Pallas]

As the dust settles from the shootout, the Duttons deal with the potential repercussions.

[slasherboy]

17 hours ago, Cool Breeze said:

Cole Hauser's character and the daughter had sex and, afterwards, he asked her to go some music festival.  She was fine up until that point and told him he always ruins it.  Apparently, she enjoys the physical relationship but can't handle/is uncomfortable/something, with any sort of emotional attachment.

Then she told him she remembered his wee wee being bigger.  Lovely lady.

[lazylou]

On 6/23/2018 at 2:32 AM, MrsWitter said:

Really. It actually hasn’t been that long (relatively speaking) that adoption of native children to non-native families has been curtailed (the late 1970s). The reason it has become so difficult is because it was exceedingly common in the past for non-native families to adopt native children (children could be taken forcibly and assimilation into white culture was prevalent). Given the age of the actor who plays the Chief (64), it completely tracks that he could have been adopted to a non-native family and raised without knowledge of his heritage.

Wow!  He is 64?  I took him to be in his 40s.  In that case, I agree with you.  

[MrsWitter]

11 hours ago, lazylou said:

Wow!  He is 64?  I took him to be in his 40s.  In that case, I agree with you.  

He does look young for his age! That said, even if he were in his forties, it would still make sense. It wasn’t until 1978 (passage of the Indian Child Welfare Act) that the practice was halted. It’s unfortunately a very recent chapter in our history.

[ShortyMac]

Kevin Costner. Scenery porn. I'm in.

[AnnA]

I finally got around to watching the first episode last night and I loved it.     Longmire was a favorite of mine and if I'm lucky, Yellowstone will fill that void.

[Andromeda]

I can't watch anymore. First one dog is maimed in the meth explosion, then a coyote is slaughtered gratuitously by a semi, then no one calls the university paleontology department when they find a dinosaur! And they plan to dig it up themselves and hide it in the barn!?  It needs to be carefully excavated and studied in situ. 

Everyone is so unlikable. I had hope for Casey until the dinosaur travesty. And really, he just had to shoot the methhead himself? Is he trying to get arrested? 

Montana is a cool state, the people are not really like these idiots. The daughter is really bizarre acting, not as a tough as nails business woman, but as a psycho with a ton of issues. Too bad I find her so unlikable, I could care less why she's so weird. 

The idea that the ranch expects its employees to be branded is sick. So Costner's character sucks. The abuse of tying the kid on the horse was too much. All the characters suck as much as this show. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Andromeda
I got Casey's name wrong.

[CMSupergirl]

Yep, this. All of this. I gave it one more try, but all of these people are so damn unlikeable. 

[Pallas]

For me, the characters gained dimension. Jamie demonstrated his value to Dutton: as the messenger with privileged access to crucial information; as the strategist of the plan to save Kayce, and as someone who knew how to predict the patriarch's reactions, survive them, and see his plan put into action, despite them. The council chairman, Rainwater -- at least as portrayed by Gil Birmingham -- suffered some genuine empathy with Kayce, even as he sought to suborn him as a weapon against Dutton. Costner has always done well playing the frightened boy and fatalistic man within a male archetype, and he's at it again.

I'm not in love with what already seems to be a pattern of a shocking killing staged within the last ten minutes. And it's never a good sign when the lead women come in two flavors, neither of which occur in nature.

[luvapickle]

We loved it. Something I have noticed the past few years is that viewers have no patience for more than one story line at a time. Not trying to be bitchy to those of you who mentioned it, but it's something my husband & I have notice with other series that have multiple stories going on at once. Yellowstone is one of those shows you need to whittle out time to watch.  Soapy? Well it does remind me of Dallas, but an updated version. It also reminds me of The Son but obviously at a different time.  Longmire? It's western based, which is always bound to involve White Americans vs Indians. But that's all for comparison, imo.  As for Reilly's hair, that's her hair. She never really changes her style from acting gig to acting gig. 

We are looking forward to watching the series. Something interesting is that the remarks/reviews for this series is ALL over the place. Most on here seem to dislike it, Reddit seems to love it, & reviewers are split down the middle.

[meira.hand]

6 hours ago, Pallas said:

And it's never a good sign when the lead women come in two flavors, neither of which occur in nature.

I nearly choked on this one. Brilliant :)

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The reason I will keep watching intently is that certain things are shown that are not often displayed.

This ep showed the making of a man.  Jimmy is a total loser and he was virtually enslaved against his will.  Yet...he has been given a real shot a a real life.  He was a loser long before Dutton's henchman grabbed him.  He was used and abused by Dutton and it continued with the breaking of the horse.  However, and it's a big however...he survived a transformational test.  He really can become a "cowboy."  He proved his courage.  This was a rite of passage he likely never had a chance to experience when he was a teen.  He has a genuine chance to BE somebody.  And it is entirely true he was abused in the process.  What price the chance he now has?  It is an enormous question and again, not one well considered in standard TV fare.

The conceit we saw and I hate (it's classic soap opera) is that the fool SEAL does not accept that his wife loves him enough, and is actually intelligent enough, to understand that her brother needed killing (as did the burn victim at the explosion site).   It was her brother's choice to exact revenge after the cattle were back on Dutton land and the incident was essentially over.  He was totally in the wrong and it is he who committed murder.   The older Dutton was in full retreat and was no threat to her brother, or any of their tribe in that moment.  Oh, well.

Far too much was made of the sweat, imo.  I have experienced several Lakota-taught sweats.  Any one of them is not meant to be life-altering.  They can certainly lead to new understandings.  Miraculous?  Hardly.  A miracle can happen in any context, at any time.  "Dying" in any given sweat is NOT expected.  I can go on forever as to the nature of killing one's self (ego).  It is a particularly important topic to me.  I believe it is of supreme importance in one's life.  However, a given sweat is simply not gonna induce it to the extent the show would have us buy.

On a much lighter side, I genuinely loved the conversation Dutton had at the rodeo with the dad of the witness.  It's the kind of communication only two grizzled men of a certain experience can have.   It was something out of a John Ford oater.  To be sure, I was less than thrilled with Dutton's depicted treachery.  I did love, I confess, the deep understanding those characters had of the code being invoked.  I would not follow such a code as far as those guys are in this instance.  But, it would take me a long way in my life.  YMMV.

The whole gay son arc can just go away.  It is enough that he was the least accepted brother who took a professional path and not that of a cowboy.  Ugh.  I can't argue, though, that it does not well fit the overarching theme of the inherent corruptions of a familial dynasty.   It's not a huge stretch by any means.

I agree that it is difficult to find "likeability" in any of this.  I believe that is intentional.  I welcome it.  

Edited June 29, 2018 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Dowel Jones]

Just watched this.  By the end of the first hour I wax doing other stuff like dinner and laundry, as I more or less knew what was coming in every scene.  The confrontation between the Tribal forces and the Yellowstone Ranch (is it too early to call it Jellystone?) forces was a call out to the all too recent armed confrontation at the Bundy Ranch in Nevada. 

I did have a good laugh at the convoy headed out there, led by the helicopter, which followed every turn in the highway, even the offramp.  You do know that it's an aircraft, right?

[mledawn]

Finally sat down to stream this after seeing a post on Twitter about it. I've seen no other advertising for this show, I didn't know it existed. I'm wondering how that happened, given the names in the cast. I was in for Kevin Costner, and doubled down when I saw Cole Hauser's name, too.

Sadly, the first time I sat down to watch, I literally fell asleep. I didn't even last until the first commercial break. I tried again and am not overly impressed. It was exposition-y, which is no surprise as the first episode of a series, but it also was confusing, trying to figure out who was who. Many of those white guys with beards look alike, and I was having a tough time keeping track of each cowboy's dirty face. (HBO's Generation Kill was hard for me too - all those dirty faces in similar outfits). The mumbling was also driving me up the wall until I remembered closed captioning. Then the captions irritated me because they were poorly timed and not all the dialogue was transcribed. I'll have to watch other episodes with headphones, I think.

The developer always plays shady characters. As someone with faint familiarity with environmental permitting and land use, the discussions around the dam and the river itself were surprising. Is that really true in Montana, that you don't need a permit to install a hydroelectric system? Damming a river, building a generating station - that's major work. And literally re-routing a river? We needed a permit to re-route a stormwater runoff ditch. My mind is blown, America.

Anyway, I'll give the second episode a try but so far it is not must-see tv.

Edited June 29, 2018 by mledawn

[meira.hand]

17 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The reason I will keep watching intently is that certain things are shown that are not often displayed.

I liked everything you said in the post. The whole thing is written with conviction and gravity and sparseness that I really appreciate. Even the way they showed the building of the solutions to a complex problem with many moving parts with just the minimum amount of clues. They moved from one part of the puzzle to the next seamlessly, trusting the viewers are intelligent enough to follow them. No direct explanation or exposition as to why they were doing each one. Its rare in most TV series. Reminded me a little, in this respect, of "Better Call Saul".

[Dowel Jones]

On 6/27/2018 at 11:37 PM, Andromeda said:

Is he trying to get arrested? 

I predict that the Tribal Officer will have cause to fire is weapon in a future episode, and there will be a ballistics test, but the shocker will be that it matches the bullet found in the murdered Indian. Since the slide came from Kayce's weapon, things will begin to fall into place.

That Tribal Chairman really isn't much different than John Dutton.  That entire "He was a drug dealer, he deserved to die" attitude is just wrong.

With regards to the coyote, many ranchers regard them as vermin, and are as likely as not to shoot them on sight, or even hire the Wildlife Service to shoot them, so it's not out of the ordinary for a trucker to run over one. 

I had to look this up (heh!), but the Catholic Church ascribes "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor" as the Eighth Commandment, not the Ninth.

If that crematorium was large enough for a horse, why break up the coffin?  Push the whole thing in there.

I hope this series doesn't turn into 'The Corleones Move to Montana'.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Aw, that was cruel what they did to Jimmy. He was basically a human test dummy.

I don't get at all what Beth's deal is. What is she so bitter about? (And geez, that wig the actress is wearing is horrific.)

I also don't get branding humans, involuntarily, especially with the 13th Amendment and all. With the Dutton ranch it looks like it's been going on for a while since that older guy had one that was almost completely faded.

Is mercy killing going to be a theme with this show?

Clever trick to get Kayce's gun, if it was deliberate. That'll be the most likely way to prove he shot his BIL and the tribe now has possession of it.

Are coyotes (or was it a wolf?) really that dumb to stand it the middle of the road and get killed?

So Dutton had his son's body dug up and cremated but what's now in the grave? Some random guy?

Just a wild guess here but I think we're going to find out Kayce isn't a biological Dutton. And that Rainwater knows it.

Quote

the Catholic Church ascribes "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor" as the Eighth Commandment, not the Ninth.

But that wasn't a Catholic church, was it? In Protestant religions it is the Ninth.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Joimiaroxeu

[Dowel Jones]

I thought so at first, but Dutton initially addressed the priest as Father, and if you look closely as the priest and the guy are walking back into the church, the sign outside identifies it as Paradise Valley Catholic Church.  I wondered what Dutton had on the priest that he could call in such a big favor as a targeted sermon.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I think Episcopal priests are also called father but point taken about the church sign.

Quote

 I wondered what Dutton had on the priest that he could call in such a big favor as a targeted sermon.

Yeah, I've watched enough soap operas to guess it might have something to do with Dutton's gay son and something that happened when he was a kid.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Is mercy killing going to be a theme with this show?

Frontier justice is major theme.  Mercy killing is a subset of such, imo.  As I wrote above, there is a LOT to like and admire about the frontier codes.  The dramatic tensions in this series which spring from the question of what is actually "just" and how that mileage varies, is to me the point of this series.  Costner has been very clear in interviews I read and saw that he thinks Dutton went too far and for reasons other than morality.

Another aspect of this show I absolutely love is that native Americans are fully actualized.  They are seen to be human with all attendant faults and virtues.  The new tribal leader is a weasel politician just as Anglo pols are.  Dutton's threshold for killing is pretty darn low if his empire's (family's) interests are threatened.  Cory's brother-in-law demonstrated a similar misguided morality.  It rightly, imo, cost him his life.   I was pleased to read comments that the ep was channeling the Godfather series.  I had the same thought.  It buttresses my point about the portrayal of the Native Americans.  Thomas Rainwater is maneuvering just as Don Corleone would and as John Dutton is.   His justification(s) revolve around his people.  Just like Corleone and Dutton.  It's a lie, just as with Corleone and Dutton.  And tragedy will result.  

Please note I am not taking a side.  I truly do not know what is "right" as to restoring land and property rights to the forcibly displaced ancestors' progeny.  I do know that becoming judge, jury, and executioner typically leads to great wrongs.  But, sometimes.  Sometimes.  It is righteous.  I love that Yellowstone forces me to examine this question.

That may have supposed to have been a Roman Catholic church, but I did not see any crucifixes (crosses with the suffering Jesus depicted).  That's a dead giveaway the joint was not RC, the sign to the contrary notwithstanding.   However, if that's what the sign said, then for dramatic purposes, that's what it was.  

[Ohwell]

Sadly, I've decided I've had enough, even though I like Kevin Costner.  I don't give one whit about any of these characters.

[DonnaJo]

The family picture on the wall in Beth's room that she hates, it shows the mother and three children One looks like the lawyer son, one is Beth, and the younger boy - is that Lee or Casey? Why is one of the boys missing? Does it mean something?

[seacliffsal]

Just watched this and, of course, they kill the sibling that I liked the most.  Sigh.

[seacliffsal]

I will continue to watch this series because of the scenery, etc., but it does not overall bode well for the stories that my primary concern when watching this episode was that I hoped somebody adopted the dog that had lived with the meth family.

[AnnA]

I'm somewhat surprised to read so many negative comments about Yellowstone.  The criticisms are all valid but for some reason, I don't care.    I like it..it's a bit out of my comfort zone but that's a good thing.   It reminds me of Longmire which I loved and miss.

[lazylou]

On June 28, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Andromeda said:

I can't watch anymore. First one dog is maimed in the meth explosion, then a coyote is slaughtered gratuitously by a semi, then no one calls the university paleontology department when they find a dinosaur! And they plan to dig it up themselves and hide it in the barn!?  It needs to be carefully excavated and studied in situ.

Maybe we are about to have Jack Horner make a cameo.

[MrsWitter]

On 6/30/2018 at 8:40 PM, seacliffsal said:

I will continue to watch this series because of the scenery, etc., but it does not overall bode well for the stories that my primary concern when watching this episode was that I hoped somebody adopted the dog that had lived with the meth family.

On 6/30/2018 at 1:54 AM, Dowel Jones said:

That Tribal Chairman really isn't much different than John Dutton.  That entire "He was a drug dealer, he deserved to die" attitude is just wrong.

I was worried about the dog too! Granted, I think back on Dances With Wolves and Costner’s horse and wolf (and their demises) are what I unfortunately remember most vividly (despite loving that movie).

 

As for the drug dealer, I might be misreading it, but I assumed the Chief might also have been reacting to the Confederate Flag in the front yard.  If he wasn’t going to care about a drug dealer, he really wasn’t going to care about a racist drug dealer. Not passing judgment either way on the Chief’s actions, but merely mentioning it because I think the flag was shown to us for a reason and I have to imagine the Chief had a reaction to it. 

ETA: I realize the Chief might never have seen the flag (it might have burned up with the explosion), but I have to imagine that he cared a lot less about a white man selling drugs on a reservation to his people.  And the man was going to die anyway-it wasn’t like he condoned a cold-blooded murder. The shooting was a mercy killing, if anything.

Edited July 2, 2018 by MrsWitter

[Former Nun]

On 6/26/2018 at 11:40 PM, ShortyMac said:

Kevin Costner. Scenery porn. I'm in.

That's about it--not enough for me.

On 6/21/2018 at 10:25 AM, lazylou said:

 (Wow, the dance costumes look great...thanks, Hollywood!)

Yeah, all new and never worn before.  Disappointing.

[Former Nun]

On 6/22/2018 at 2:07 PM, Pallas said:

We don't yet know why Kayce -- youngest son of Dutton -- is branded to the ranch, any more than we know why he spells his name that way.

I blamed his mother.  I even said, "What kind of woman would brand a poor little boy with a name spelled that way?"    He should have been smart enough to change it somewhere along the way--even initials would work.

On 6/21/2018 at 1:25 PM, slasherboy said:

The daughter ~~ I had to laugh.  Seems she mostly just lurks around the house with a cup of coffee and a cigarette.  I mean, come on, really?  

Lurks, mumbles, snarls...and apparently LOVES getting banged (literally) up against furniture and walls.  I wish women could write the so-called love scenes.  Have any of these writers had any real experiences?

On 6/22/2018 at 2:06 PM, margol29 said:

It's kind of funny that when a man acts that way he is shrewd, cunning or just plain evil, but when it is a woman she is a bitch. 

I haven't seen the daughter be shrewd, cunning, or smart.  She seems to go out of her way to be a smart-mouthed bitch...and a castrating one (not literally) at that.   This series needs women writers.   I could write her "sex scene" to make it fun and interesting...without insulting anyone: the man or the audience.

[mledawn]

I had no problem with the sex scene. It wasn't a love scene, and hard sex against a wall/on a table is sometimes just what hits the spot (ha).
Now, if they're ALL like that, it's a different story.

[Dowel Jones]

4 hours ago, Former Nun said:

I haven't seen the daughter be shrewd, cunning, or smart.

At the beginning of the show, she did shark the oilman's company away from him by threatening him with doom and gloom (how much of which was a bluff, we don't know), which indicates that she had planned the entire confrontation, possibly over several months.

[Dowel Jones]

While I get the idea that the show is attempting to show the amorality of some of the characters, I have two objections, there.  One, Kayce decided on the spot that he was a drug dealer and a meth lab explosion caused the destruction.  What if it had been another cause, such as a propane leak in the trailer?  That does happen.  And, two, mercy killing is a slippery slope.  Does Kayce ( or anyone) get to decide whether someone is going to die anyway?  Yes, the guy did say, "Kill Me", but only Kayce heard it.   What I object to here is the rather common acceptance of taking someone's life.  What if Tip has a heart attack out on the ranch.  Is he a candidate?  It's already been shown that he is a cold blooded killer in Dutton's service.  Should he be dispatched as well?

[Former Nun]

4 hours ago, mledawn said:

It wasn't a love scene, and hard sex against a wall/on a table is sometimes just what hits the spot (ha).

In real life, the man would rarely have bruises; the woman could have some injuries.   Still, I guess this female character would have bruises that would be easier to handle than the verbal bruises she delivered.  (P.S.  I know you know I didn't call it a love scene.)

[MrsWitter]

2 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

While I get the idea that the show is attempting to show the amorality of some of the characters, I have two objections, there.  One, Kayce decided on the spot that he was a drug dealer and a meth lab explosion caused the destruction.  What if it had been another cause, such as a propane leak in the trailer?  That does happen.  And, two, mercy killing is a slippery slope.  Does Kayce ( or anyone) get to decide whether someone is going to die anyway?  Yes, the guy did say, "Kill Me", but only Kayce heard it.   What I object to here is the rather common acceptance of taking someone's life.  What if Tip has a heart attack out on the ranch.  Is he a candidate?  It's already been shown that he is a cold blooded killer in Dutton's service.  Should he be dispatched as well?

Sure, maybe it was a propane tank explosion. That said, meth addiction has ravaged some reservations and I’m willing to suspend disbelief and put some trust in Kayce’s assessment- he and his wife live there, grew up in the area and are likely attuned to the small nuances of what can distinguish certain properties. I don’t think Sheridan needed to show us every little piece of evidence that Kayce might have taken in to assess whether it was a propane tank or a meth lab. Is it possible that Kayce’s asssement was wrong? Sure. Is it likely that’s he’s incorrect? Not in my mind.

 

Also, I simply don’t agree that it’s a slippery slope. Completely separate from whether he was a drug dealer or not, the man was covered with burns, seemed to be missing parts of limbs and they did call 911, which they were told would take 45 minutes. Kayce made a point to note that the man wasn’t going to make it 45 minutes. Is that necessarily correct? Again, I don’t know, but surviving 45 minutes without medical help in that situation seems unlikely. Most importantly, I think we are to believe that Kayce and his wife believe this is a merciful thing to do because they believe he will die before help can come and this will ease suffering. You can disagree with what Kayce did, but I do think it’s important to try to understand the motivations of the characters. The point of that scene was to give us more insight into Kayce as a character, the nature of life on the reservation, and set up a bit of the storyline going forward with the gun.

 

These are all imperfect characters-I don’t think we are being encouraged to believe otherwise. I also don’t think we are to believe their decisions are all good. I think we’re supposed to believe there is rampant corruption and immorality. But I think we are also supposed to believe that Kayce thought he was doing the right thing in that moment. Whether it was or not is sorta immaterial to the larger story, IMO. 

 

ETA: Your original point was that Dutton and the tribal chairman aren’t that different. Again, I think that’s the point. We’re supposed to believe they are both craven. When I watched The Sopranos, for instance, I wasn’t sitting there analyzing whether what Tony did was moral or not. He was an antihero- a criminal and a murderer. Both Dutton and the Chief are antiheroes- they’re going to do bad things. That’s sorta the point. I think Kayce is a more complex character- he seems to be trying to break away from his family and failing and tries to be a good man, which he also often fails at. I think the moral tension he feels is key to the show. 

 

ETA 2: I should have just said, “everything that @Lonesome Rhodes said.” The perspective and analysis Lonesome laid out is pretty much how I am approaching the show as well... Lonesome articulated it a heck of a lot better than I did, though.

Edited July 3, 2018 by MrsWitter

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I really liked this show, LOVED the scenery and love the cast but there were some things that were off, which everyone has already mentioned.  I was sad to see one of the actors I like leave so early. My husband and I thought it seemed strange too. We were like "just over some cattle?"   The plot was pretty messy and I am hoping it chills a little bit as I want to like and keep watching this.  They need to get rid of the daughter or fix this character. I'm not even going to be nice about this - she's too old to be in this role. None of the siblings look remotely alike but she really stands out. Plus why was she there?  She told her brother "To do something you couldn't do".  Well what??  Because they lost us with the plot by then. And then all of the sudden she's walking around smoking and getting fucked?

[Former Nun]

8 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

They need to get rid of the daughter or fix this character. I'm not even going to be nice about this - she's too old to be in this role.

I don't like the character and I don't want this actress to play the character.  I've only heard her speak in her native accent--British, so this is very off-putting.   I hope the producers don't expect us to Just. Keep. Watching. because we like something about the program: Keven Costner ~ Montana Scenery ~ Cowboys and Indians ~ Et Cetera................