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Season 1 - 3 Discussion


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This is the silliest Western ever...and that is saying something!  We don't have to chose between the cowboys and the Indians.  Both sides are conniving, greedy, and too clever for their own good....or at lest their leaders are.  (Except for Monica and her grandfather.)

 If you want to see a good film about politics in modern day Montana, go see the documentary "Dark Money."
 

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Kevin Costner is da boss and that ending song “ no mercy” was legit 

On 8/23/2018 at 8:41 PM, missbonnie said:

Apparently I am the only one who loves this show with it's f*cked up characters. I can't wait for season two. But then I love Animal Kingdom too.

It took me a while to find this particular forum or I'd have been here sooner. 

I absolutely love this show. I’m team Dutton 

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Besides all the other unnecessary hijinks I actually like this episode with Beth and her mom.  It ties together why she has to play hard with the men and why her mom was so tough on her when she was dying.  

If Costner leaves my husband and I are OUT!  Wes Bentley was a huge draw for me but unless he grows a beard I'm not hanging around for him.

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I like that the series exists, because I've worked with tribes in the Plains and appreciate the series delving into the historical hostilities (ranchers and farmers vs. Indians) and today's situations in these beautiful wild places: environmental, casinos, tourists and developers, resource grabs...at one point Montana struggled with the fact that massive tracts of land were being acquired by outsiders, including celebrities. And the state's resources (mining, oil and gas) enriched a lot of outsiders.

Anyway, it's too bad the writers had to exaggerate the villainy to such a degree that I find myself snorting at much of each episode. And I hate how they have overtly sexualized Beth - the cleavage in most scenes - when she could be a fantastic character without that and without her extremely nasty behavior. And then the stripper/cowhand who stripped down to her skivvies within moments of arriving in the bunkhouse? Gag.

It's good to see so many Indian actors. Too bad they did not use a native actor for the role of Monca; lots of fantastic native actors out there - why didn't they use one?

Edited by pasdetrois
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A huge asteroid lands on the property and inside is a festering group of aliens that also want to stake claim on the land. 

Has Costner ever done a movie with aliens? I think I'd be okay with such a development on Yellowstone. ??

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TPTB roped themselves into some insane corners, this finale suffered for the ridiculous set-ups they earlier hatched.

The best moment for me was Monica finally waking the f up.  She married a stallion and then resented his nature.  She married an Anglo knowing full well that the man decides things - especially a man who comes from a lineage like Dutton's.  A SEAL (Special Forces?) man?  He's gonna be all metro (or whatever that would be in the 80s)?  Puhleeeeeze.  Anyway, I fully identified with the boy who was on that fence crushed that the best thing he had was taken from him.  Very powerful to me.

I found Beth to be at her most sane and decent in this ep, except for her encounter with the disaffected cowboy.  I would think she has just begin messing with her brother.  We ain't seen nothin' yet.

Huge moment when Dutton asked for the familiar, "John" to be used by Rip - his true son.  It was not lost on me that Rip would not use it in front of Beth later.

The worst moment for me in this ep was when they were going to spare Jenkins from hanging.  That made zero sense whatsoever.  They gonna get away with taking out Rainwater, too?  Ay yi yi.

They really didn't have to be so outrageous.  

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On 8/16/2018 at 1:01 AM, Dowel Jones said:

 Speaking of that, $6,000,000/year in property tax, on undeveloped agriculture/forest land?  How big is this ranch?

So, for no reason #ididthemath. Land (not residential) tax is $100/20 acres. $6 million dollars is 60,000 "20 acre parcels." 60,000 × 20=1,200.000. So the Dutton ranch should be 1.2 million acres (many times larger than the largest in MT). 

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On 7/26/2018 at 5:25 AM, Dowel Jones said:

I was a bit confused during the barroom scene.  When Beth said she worked in Mergers & Acquistions for that law firm, Jenkins' wife said "Oh, you work with Dan."  Or did I misunderstand her?  If She and Jenkins work for the same firm, he would know all about what she does, and it oughta be clear to him who the target is. 

I took it to mean that his company had used that firm for legal work (so she recognized the name) and wondered if they had worked together.  (Sorry for a late response, I'm just watching the series.)

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On 6/28/2018 at 11:00 PM, Dowel Jones said:

I did have a good laugh at the convoy headed out there, led by the helicopter, which followed every turn in the highway, even the offramp.  You do know that it's an aircraft, right?

Just like Mr Joshua in Lethal Weapon as he went to the desert meeting with Detective Murtaugh

On 7/20/2018 at 1:10 PM, Dowel Jones said:

I wonder if Dutton has always "recruited" from the ex-con population.  That way he has some control over them.  Rip threatened to send Jimmy back to jail if he didn't go to work at the ranch. He has also killed for Dutton, as has now the older ranch hand, and Dutton told Rip to go find another hand, specifying another prison guy.  His crew seems to be way outside the normal working population.

I am only 4 episodes in but they do seem to form a Dutton Ranch dirty deeds squad. The first mission Jimmy went on his first day was the black op to divert the river while the open operation of confronting the Tribal Police over the herd was going on.

On 9/2/2018 at 11:14 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The best moment for me was Monica finally waking the f up.  She married a stallion and then resented his nature.  She married an Anglo knowing full well that the man decides things - especially a man who comes from a lineage like Dutton's.  A SEAL (Special Forces?) man?  He's gonna be all metro (or whatever that would be in the 80s)?  Puhleeeeeze.  Anyway, I fully identified with the boy who was on that fence crushed that the best thing he had was taken from him.  Very powerful to me.

I am guessing SEAL or Marine Raider since all TV characters were special forces. Regular infantrymen or Marines don't even rate anymore unless the character is too old to serve before there were USMC Raiders, but then he would have been a Force Recon Scout/Sniper. In the first episode when his brother in law was trying to assert dominance with the mention of two Silver Stars for valor he finally came back with his Navy Cross cost even more.

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The episode wasn't great.

I had a feeling there was no way they would kill off Costner. That's a new one from the "clever" writers. They can get around the colon cancer diagnosis by giving him an ulcer.  Those doctors better leave town tonight for giving John grief!

(I don't remember all the details from season one) Why did John point Cowboy to Kayce's direction instead of Rip?

I don't trust Cowboy. He maybe working for the Jenkins or an informant for the authorities.

Cowboy poker seemed to be very silly. Waste of a good table and chairs.

John was stupid. Dutton could have been wearing a wire when he threatened to hang him.

An episode went by and Beth didn't have a mental breakdown or a fit of rage (I guess she needs Jamie around bring out the lunatic). 

Did Rip and Kayce bring their best "well behaved" bull to the bar. The place didn't seem to have any damages.

Jimmy has excellent memory pointing out everyone that kicked his ass while he was on the floor. I'm sure someone innocent caught a beating.

Is Monica going to spend the entire season depressed and crying? 

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(edited)

Neat device used to deflect away all the staggering criminal liabilities the Dutton's had.  Jenkins' refusal to report the attempted murder was merely one of many.

The most interesting arc for me is the Native American tribe and its' president Rainwater.  I love how the dude used resentment and anger to get the council to agree to the harebrained scheme creating a mega-resort in the middle of nowhere.  None of that is Dutton's fault.

Ms. Long is a nice mirror of Beth.  Crazy as the day is long and too smart and shrewd for anyone's good.  Europeans committed genocide on her people and she...marries into a prominent and corrupt as heck family of European descent.  Okaaaay.  The writing for the scene when Kayce showed up to see his son ought to be nominated for some kind of "worst of" award.  

"Cowboy" was never made to actually put up.  He talks a great game.  He has not shown one, and Rip intervened to make sure he did not.  Huh?  

No New York Times, or whatever, exposé based on all the shenanigans documented last season, for the world to see?  The Governor and her political, and legal, apparatus all against Dutton and not a mention?  Ohhhhh.   Costner's gonna "Undo."  Riiiiight.

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Why did John point Cowboy to Kayce's direction instead of Rip?

It was an indication that Dutton was passing on complete control of the ranch to Kayce.  This is sure to be a major arc with Rip getting all butt-hurt and testing Kayce's status - just as John wants.

Rip's reaction when Kayce threatened to burn down the bar was hugely significant, imo.  I took it as a realization that Kayce will be every bit as ruthless, if not more so, than his old man.  Not good, if you are Rip.

Edited by Lonesome Rhodes
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1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I love how the dude used resentment and anger to get the council to agree to the harebrained scheme creating a mega-resort in the middle of nowhere. 

His stated intent is to get back the Yellowstone Ranch, so my guess is that he is going to leverage the hotel/casino action into driving the Duttons out.  I was kind of surprised they used the Chumash Casino as a model.  It's clear over in California, near Solvang.  Meanwhile, Beth is hard at work, being her usual self, with her own plan to own this half of Montana.  I didn't try to actually figure out the numbers, but they seemed stratospherically high to be believable, except maybe to Daddy Newbucks.

Cowboy poker is a real deal, but mostly at prisons where they raise livestock.  Inmates think differently than we do.

Okay, Jimmy.  You've spent a few months on the ranch, got yourself a real hat.  Now it's time to talk shit in the barrooms.  Good luck walking down the street by yourself after this.

I would have laughed if one of those barroom clowns had pulled a gun and dropped the bull right there in the bar.  Now to explain that to Dutton.

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10 hours ago, mxc90 said:

The episode wasn't great.

I had a feeling there was no way they would kill off Costner. That's a new one from the "clever" writers. They can get around the colon cancer diagnosis by giving him an ulcer.  Those doctors better leave town tonight for giving John grief!

(I don't remember all the details from season one) Why did John point Cowboy to Kayce's direction instead of Rip?

I don't trust Cowboy. He maybe working for the Jenkins or an informant for the authorities.

Cowboy poker seemed to be very silly. Waste of a good table and chairs.

John was stupid. Dutton could have been wearing a wire when he threatened to hang him.

An episode went by and Beth didn't have a mental breakdown or a fit of rage (I guess she needs Jamie around bring out the lunatic). 

Did Rip and Kayce bring their best "well behaved" bull to the bar. The place didn't seem to have any damages.

Jimmy has excellent memory pointing out everyone that kicked his ass while he was on the floor. I'm sure someone innocent caught a beating.

Is Monica going to spend the entire season depressed and crying? 

I'm confused.  I thought Dutton had colon cancer and he thought it was back.  Then, instead of it being back, it's an ulcer.  You're saying it wasn't colon cancer to begin with at all?  I guess I thought it was a definitive diagnosis.

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2 hours ago, SnarkAttack said:

I'm confused.  I thought Dutton had colon cancer and he thought it was back.  Then, instead of it being back, it's an ulcer.  You're saying it wasn't colon cancer to begin with at all?  I guess I thought it was a definitive diagnosis.

To me, it was a convenient way to give us a medical scare, with the M*A*S*H veterinary trailer and Cowboy doing their thang.  We also got actual guts!  

For John to have had a cancer-related episode/incident crisis, his demise would be imminent, which TPTB can't have.  So, a bleeding ulcer it is!  They were actually consistent in the cancer diagnosis with John mentioning it not once, but twice, as he was being laid on to the table and the Vet saying this wasn't about any cancer.

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9 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Maybe, but the way the show is written the entire Ranch can do whatever they want, to whomever they want, and the locals just seem to roll over for it.

Well the greater community is starting to push back as represented by the Sheriff trying to frame Rip. What the Dutton's are doing is not that far from the Cartwright's, Barkley's and Canon's of a couple of generations ago. They just happen to be villains fighting other villainous folks instead of basically good guys

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Occasionally a Jenkins type would come around to threaten the Ponderosa and he might get some temporary help from a Sheriff but depending upon the tone of the episode, dramatic, comic or other it didn't matter how it was done but Big Ben got his way in the end.

Audrey Barkley was rapidly retconned after The Big Valley pilot where she was going to seduce Heath to prove he was faking being their father's love child seemed a lot like Beth at first glance. And Big John Canon marrying into the untouchable family because they are over the border lines up with Monica and Kayce

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8 hours ago, Raja said:

Well the greater community is starting to push back as represented by the Sheriff trying to frame Rip. What the Dutton's are doing is not that far from the Cartwright's, Barkley's and Canon's of a couple of generations ago. They just happen to be villains fighting other villainous folks instead of basically good guys

Donnie did a really bad job of trying to frame Rip, though. Someone is using Donnie to try get to the Duttons (John references Donnie's new membership at some fancy club), and of course Donnie doesn't press charges against Kayce when he stabs (murders?) that 'hobo'. It's all inbred fuckery, a classic American television tale...

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I forget, was Costner doing that gruff voice in the first season? It compares laughably to the silly voice 66-year old Pierce Brosnan is using in The Son as he tries to play the world's most spry 80-year old. Wonder if Costner is making fun of Brosnan? Whatever, Yellowstone is getting a third season and The Son is running on vapors.

That was pretty much a miracle cure for Dutton, hah, hah. Guess KC's contract renegotiations were successful.

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1 hour ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

The real silly storyline was still all of them, but then Monica waltzing into a college campus and being offered a job as a professor. 

She's a Dutton and her father in law set it up last season

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John Sutton has a way for management training. He should be careful how he treats Rip, the guy probably has a lot of dirt on him.

Kayce didn't drive over enough potholes for my liking.

Walker should have thanked John and Kayce for the offer to let him stay, but declined and leave the ranch. Now he has to sleep with one eye open with Rip in the bunkhouse. He is lucky he didn't lose an eye from the flying barbwire.

Beth doesn't look 35. At least make her 38 - 40 (to be kind).

$9 Million? That guy is probably kicking himself for not saying $20 million.

I wouldn't be surprised if Beth is sleeping with the real estate agent. 

Beth did have a good point with her message to Kayce.

I was surprised some students didn't walk out of Monica's class when she started teaching.

A weird ending with the awkward stares! Monica/Tate just happened to be there with the swim therapist as a potential love interest. The university doesn't have pool for her to use?

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I haven't watched the first season, but I have watched the first two episodes of this season because there was nothing else on except Krypton.  I can't believe so many people watch this show. Kevin Costner is lucky to have such devoted fans.

I see Kelly Reilly who plays the daughter still can't act worth a damn after all these years and her attempt at whatever version of an American accent is dreadful. I can't believe the talented Michael Nouri has to share scenes with her and not Kevin Costner.

I recognize the actress who plays Monica from Wind River. They should have cast an actual Native American actress to play that role. All they had to do is use the casting list from Longmire. These people are so freaking lazy and full of shit also. 

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(edited)

First, a couple of production choices.  When Rip came roaring into the bunkhouse, Cowboy did not follow him in, and he did not go in when Kayce showed up to stop him.  Excellent choice.  

But then, despite the fact we just saw that it was a very bright day, when Rip reports to Dutton, it's gray and dull outside.  The interior lighting and dark woods evoked the Corleone property.  Ridiculous.  Also ridiculous was moving Rip so Kayce could move into his space.  The house was good enough for the sainted, dead, brother.  It's more than good enough for the pretender Kayce.  

I thoroughly enjoyed Beth the magnate.  Her speech to Kayce was crammed with truth and wisdom.  Kayce is just stoopid enough to choose Monica, too.

I'm pleased to know that the University System of Montana treats first-year adjuncts so well!  It's a wonder they do not attract the cream of that crop.  Ms. Long's little oration about power was amusing.  It's a good thing she didn't pick on me.  I would have pointed out to her that the students now rule the roost and that any negative feedback to the administration of a newbie like her would be the end of HER.  

I was thrilled that some of the native culture was introduced to bite her.  Tell me again about empowerment when she is beholden to THEIR ways.  She wants to celebrate and identify fully as Native, thereby rejecting the murderous/genocidal Anglo ways?  Cool.  Stay there.  Obey the elders.  Enjoy Rainwater as your highest executive leader (Chief?)!  Teach your own.  (I do not disparage anyone who chooses to live/identify fully as a Native.  It's Monica's hypocrisy and BS that grates.)   Maybe use your full actual name, Monica.  Let's start there.

The fight between Rip and Kayce was odd, to me.  Kayce had military training in close quarter fights, and he fights Rip on Rip's terms?  Fisticuffs, with a little wrasslin'?  He should have won on his own.  Instead, those two will always know Rip let him win.    

Guitarboy's decision to come back?  He deserves his horrible fate.

Edited by Lonesome Rhodes
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Why Walker didn't keep going off the ranch mystifies me (other than plot requirements, of course).  He's already alienated the entire crew, not just Rip, and will never improve his lot there.  Rip thinks he has pull with all the other ranchers.  I think not, based on the behavior of the Yellowstone crew.  Besides which, Walker could look for work elsewhere, such as logging or construction, until his parole is up.

The rancher should have told Beth "I'll leave when the check clears."

Remind me, what is Dutton Sr.'s physical therapy for?  It's not the blown ulcer. And if I were him, I'd be having a serious talk with the doctor who so seriously misread the MRI and called it cancer.

If I had been a Dutton at the dinner table, I think I would have replied "It's not that we don't want to talk, we just don't want to talk with you."  Beth drains the life out of everyone she contacts, save Rip, and I think that's because they're two sides of the same coin.

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10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The fight between Rip and Kayce was odd, to me.

It was ripped off from Lonesome Dove when Captain Call had his son Newt assigned as ranch manager.  Jasper fought him because of it, with Call watching on the sidelines and letting it go on.  Pea Eye implored Call to stop it, but he used his hand signal to keep going.  Exactly as it happened at the Dutton Ranch.

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Remind me, what is Dutton Sr.'s physical therapy for?  It's not the blown ulcer.

I thought you had to wait 6 weeks or so to go in a pool or lake or ocean after surgery, for fear of infection.  

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Nope.  Duttons are immune to infection.  Why, they can even take several hard punches to the face without even so much as a concussion, get shot, run over by horses, etc.  What's a little cut on the abdomen, especially since it was done on a table that just had some sick animal laying on it?

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2 hours ago, roughing it said:

It was ripped off from Lonesome Dove when Captain Call had his son Newt assigned as ranch manager.  Jasper fought him because of it, with Call watching on the sidelines and letting it go on.  Pea Eye implored Call to stop it, but he used his hand signal to keep going.  Exactly as it happened at the Dutton Ranch.

The dynamics of the confrontation made perfect sense.  Kayce HAD to establish supremacy of his own accord.  That's a timeless deal.

It's the actual fight he chose to fight which was cray cray to me.  You do not fight a puncher on a puncher's terms.   That was Ali's genius in his early career.  Kayce had excellent training in the military which no doubt included the consideration of the advantages and disadvantages one has when engaging another in a desperate fight.  Maybe we can have a cameo by Kwai Chang Kane to help edumacate our erstwhile young prince?

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The whole point of the fight was the display of testosterone-laced masculinity inherent in tv cowboy culture.  Anyone can win a fight by "cheating", and, yes, in the Army, that would be the main goal because you're not going to shake hands afterward.  But, in the cowboy culture, as portrayed, you gotta be a man and slug it out.

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I'm still trying to "get back into" this season.  I'm still bored with the Yellow Bangs sister and Monica.  I'm more interested in Walker and why he chose to stay at the ranch, and his relationship with Cowboy.  

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Just found this thread and it appears I am the only one who likes John Dutton, lol. I really like Rip too. So what am I missing? Obviously I am way off on something as neither of them appear to be very popular after reading these comments. Be brutally honest with me, please!

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One thing that does make me question....John had Rip move so that Kayce could move in to Rip's house. Why can't Kayce stay in the mcmansion with John and Rip stay in his own house? Why were the only options: either Kayce lives in the bunkhouse with the others or Rip lives in the bunkhouse and Kayce lives in Rip's place? Perhaps this was addressed upthread and I missed it.

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(edited)
34 minutes ago, Hannah94 said:

Just found this thread and it appears I am the only one who likes John Dutton, lol. I really like Rip too. So what am I missing? Obviously I am way off on something as neither of them appear to be very popular after reading these comments. Be brutally honest with me, please!

I just came off another board of a crime family dynasty where the question was who to root for. On Yellowstone where assuming Walker gets in "an accident" nobody is good, except Monica and her son and her grandfather Dutton is the big bad and Rip his henchman.

Edited by Raja
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16 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I'm still trying to "get back into" this season.  I'm still bored with the Yellow Bangs sister and Monica.  I'm more interested in Walker and why he chose to stay at the ranch, and his relationship with Cowboy.  

I watched Behind the Scenes on demand and the characters that play Walker and Rip are good friends in real life and said it was hard to not laugh during the scenes when they were fighting. Can you imagine, lol! 

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4 hours ago, Hannah94 said:

Obviously I am way off on something as neither of them appear to be very popular after reading these comments.

My feeling, which I expressed in S1, is that the Yellowstone crew is more Corleone than Cartwright. Dutton is portrayed not so much as a rancher as a power hungry land baron, who commits murder when it suits his purposes.  The rest are simply henchmen (and woman) in his family, doing whatever he orders.  That, and the fact that everyone surrounding them is just as craven as they are, casts a sort of pall over the entire scene.  Of course, a tv show where everyone gets along and there's only happy endings would be dead in the water, so we tend to root for the most photogenic bad guys, if nothing else.

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36 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

the Yellowstone crew is more Corleone than Cartwright. Dutton is portrayed not so much as a rancher as a power hungry land baron, who commits murder when it suits his purposes.

I agree.  I would rather see more Cartwright with a little Corleone thrown in at times for good measure.  Would feel a little more realistic anyway.

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Costner's vision for the show was the passing of the old ways into the modern, corporatist times we now know.  No more passing down property, and most especially, farms and ranches.  

The best of what he's produced is great.  We see that culture can try to take out the human nature of men and women, but it typically will win out over practicalities (keeping things within families/tribes and especially how men crave physical challenges and judge much based on such considerations).  

The worst are the many times something waaaaaay over the top is allowed.  Redirecting a waterway?!   Murderous abuse of hands?  Corleone, indeed.  Beth's cavalier business dealings? 

So...I settle for the gorgeous videography, horsemanship, and the occasional organic moments when the wisdom of the ages asserts itself (like the Rip/Kayce showdown).   

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Was that doctor joking when he told Dutton he could put his cowboy hat on the bed? Surely in that part of the country even the doc would know better.

Oh, come on. Who writes $9M checks on the spot? Grandstanding b.s.

I have a hard time buying Walker as a ranchhand. He's too slight.

Sometimes I don't get the macho, settle it with your fists thing. Rip is an employee of the Duttons. Wasn't he basically being insubordinate? Dutton made Kayce take a beating mainly because Rip was butthurt about getting demoted.

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I wouldn 't be surprised if Beth is sleeping with the real estate agent.  

Or will be soon. She got herself an eyeful and is already imagining what he looks like under the clothes.

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