Season 1 - 3 Discussion

[holo37]

I want to know why the Duttons adopted Jamie. It seems Out of character for John. I know he took In Rip and cares for him, but that’s a whole different situation. Why would a young healthy couple decide to adopt? There just isnt any backstory to support such a huge decision. Jamie doesn’t ask why and John doesn’t tell him anything about why he and his young wife decided to adopt a child?  I think there might be more to this story. 

[howivesforever]

11 minutes ago, holo37 said:

I want to know why the Duttons adopted Jamie. It seems Out of character for John. I know he took In Rip and cares for him, but that’s a whole different situation. Why would a young healthy couple decide to adopt? There just isnt any backstory to support such a huge decision. Jamie doesn’t ask why and John doesn’t tell him anything about why he and his young wife decided to adopt a child?  I think there might be more to this story. 

I thought he explained his father murdered his mother.

[Moose135]

18 minutes ago, holo37 said:

I want to know why the Duttons adopted Jamie. It seems Out of character for John. I know he took In Rip and cares for him, but that’s a whole different situation. Why would a young healthy couple decide to adopt? There just isnt any backstory to support such a huge decision. Jamie doesn’t ask why and John doesn’t tell him anything about why he and his young wife decided to adopt a child?  I think there might be more to this story. 

When they were talking, John said he (and his late wife) knew Jamie's birth parents - well enough to know the father was a bad guy, and that a number of people had warned the mother about getting together with him. I imagine they were family friends, and perhaps there were no other relatives who could take Jamie in, so they decided to adopt him to save him from growing up in foster homes.

[SG429]

3 hours ago, Moose135 said:

When they were talking, John said he (and his late wife) knew Jamie's birth parents - well enough to know the father was a bad guy, and that a number of people had warned the mother about getting together with him. I imagine they were family friends, and perhaps there were no other relatives who could take Jamie in, so they decided to adopt him to save him from growing up in foster homes.

Orrrrrr, perhaps John had a little on the side with the family friend. Family friend got pregnant, gaslighted her husband for the duration of the pregnancy, and somehow 3 months after Jamie was born husband learns Jamie isn't his but doesn't stick around to find out who before killing her. Duttons step in and John manipulates his wife to do the right thing by their poor murdered friend. She never needs to find out, and the bad guy wasn't bad until Dutton entered his life.

Perhaps it wasn't even a real adoption, as the birth certificate would apparently be re-issued with the adoptive parents' names (did I get that right, from the comment upthread?).

Edited August 4, 2020 by SG429

[Artsda]

If Jamie's looking for Power of Attorney, is he looking to see if he still has it? If he does then John just needs to be removed from the equation and he can sell the land.

I think John had it switched to Beth right? When he fired Jamie, took away the credit cards and he was kicked out of the house? We saw him ask Beth to  make that change to the trust that ended up with Rip getting the house and Jamie stood there and asked her what the change was.

Jamie and Rip seem to be on some same parallels. Both birth fathers murdered their mothers, both taken in by John. Only main difference is one respects/idolizes John and the other does not. One Beth loves, the other she hates. 

[Raja]

6 hours ago, SG429 said:

Orrrrrr, perhaps John had a little on the side with the family friend. Family friend got pregnant, gaslighted her husband for the duration of the pregnancy, and somehow 3 months after Jamie was born husband learns Jamie isn't his but doesn't stick around to find out who before killing her. Duttons step in and John manipulates his wife to do the right thing by their poor murdered friend. She never needs to find out, and the bad guy wasn't bad until Dutton entered his life.

Perhaps it wasn't even a real adoption, as the birth certificate would apparently be re-issued with the adoptive parents' names (did I get that right, from the comment upthread?).

Wouldn't the husband be legally entered on birth certificate without any testing if the wife was gas lighting him during the pregnancy?

[Joimiaroxeu]

Cattle rustling. If watching old westerns has taught me nothing else, that's bad business and that's how you could get dead if you're caught.

Lol, Beth asking John for her own hand in marriage. Hilarious.

To all the people who guessed a while back that Jamie wasn't a "real" Dutton, congratulations.

Yeah, Jimmy's girlfriend has to be up to something. She's trying really hard to distract Rip now and her pal has already done a number on Lloyd. Both women spending nights in the bunk house could become problematic.

"I stay dirty." Dutton family motto right there. 🤗

Lassoing someone while they're driving and you're riding a horse. Okay, is that actually possible? The truck must've been creeping along and they sped up the video for the show.

Brutal to find out at Jamie's age that he's adopted. Wonder if Beth and Kayce know? Seems to me Beth wouldn't have been able to resist throwing that at Jamie at some point, given how much she hates him. (There's speculation out there that Jamie's mother was John's sister, but maybe it was John's wife's sister. That way Jamie is definitely not a Dutton.)

Quote

perhaps John had a little on the side with the family friend. Family friend got pregnant, gaslighted her husband for the duration of the pregnancy, and somehow 3 months after Jamie was born husband learns Jamie isn't his but doesn't stick around to find out who before killing her. Duttons step in and John manipulates his wife to do the right thing by their poor murdered friend. She never needs to find out, and the bad guy wasn't bad until Dutton entered his life.

A guy tricking his wife into adopting his kid by a woman he cheated on her with is fairly common daytime soap opera plotline. I'd be surprised if this show used it. That said, I have thought maybe John's wife got pregnant from an affair or she'd gotten raped. Something must explain John's harsh attitude toward Jamie.

[SuzieQ]

I don't mind going down in flames if I'm wrong but I think Wade will turn out to be Jamie's father.  They've thrown a few clues.  Wade was in prison and they have really bad history.  John throwing out that his birth father is still out there and he can decide who he calls his father.

To get even more "out there" I think the season will end with Wade and Jamie teaming up against John & family.

[roughing it]

Pardon my ignorance, but who is Wade?

[Dowel Jones]

He is the older rancher who is grazing bison on property next to the Dutton Ranch.  The guy who John confronted in the restaurant. 

[Moose135]

5 minutes ago, roughing it said:

Pardon my ignorance, but who is Wade?

The old guy who showed up with the buffalo and who met with John at the diner.

[roughing it]

Thanks, there's a lot going on, sometimes I miss so much

[gaPeach]

I find the adoption story line extremely hard to swallow.  The Duttons are a very prominent family in the County and town.  No way would the adoption gone without notice by all.  First, wife killed by husband who goes to jail.  Child left an orphan shows up on the Ranch with Duttons.  How did no one notice this? Ok lets say this goes unnoticed, as someone posted upthread how in the world did Jamie get to this age and never need or even see his birth certificate???  I am sure we all have a CERTIFIED copy of our birth certificates in house. This is the worse storylines.  

The next worse storyline............the sterilization of a minor without parent consent and no hospital time.  And Beth holds a grudge like I have never seen before.  She acts as though Jamie personally used a coat hanger on her against her will.  He was just a kid and not very bright.  It did not seem as though he had any nefarious hidden agenda when they showed him at the clinic.  She was upset and crying.  their father was an emotional void and both he and Beth were afraid of him so he did what he thought would help Beth.   

This is why it kills me to she Beth happy with Rip when she hates Jamie so much for something that was not much  more than a very stupid decision.  I do love her with Rip but that is only because I love Rip so much.  

[MorbidPet]

On 8/3/2020 at 4:52 PM, roughing it said:

Yes! especially since Beth is still showing bruises.

To me it looks like her bruises are gone now and she's left with a scar under one eye. Just how I see it anyways. But that Jimmy is up and about without much trouble already makes him Superman or something. Which he obviously is not. Far from. Rubberman (no pun intended) might be more fitting. 

On 8/3/2020 at 8:49 PM, Artsda said:

I'm assuming from the Beth/John conversation where John basically suggested the engagement that he knows Rip was the father of her baby. Beth said "since the moment I met him" and John knows how long ago that was when he brought Rip to the ranch as a kid. Then John started his apology about her not feeling she could come to him about the pregnancy. I still don't think Rip knows.

Rip stalking off to the house, slamming the door and drinking the beers fast before repeating the line from a few episodes about how was your day dear was hilarious.  

Jimmy being up and about with a broken back and new hip and all else is a bit out there with this timeline of it not being that long from the end of the previous season. Rip is still nursing his bullet wound. 

Yeah I'm not sure Rip knows yet either and that makes me worried these happy, marriage bliss moments will be a thing of the past too soon. I think Rip can forgive Beth a lot, and they were what 15 year olds at the time so they were still in that window were at least I give them the benefit of doubt by being young - something I don't give Jamie as he had +2 years on them and imo should've known better. But I don't think Rip will see Jamie in the same light when he finds out his part in it. 

That was such a great scene with Rip and Beth. I love everything about it. It could've gone down so much differently but their love for each other - good and/or bad sides - just makes them work so well in any situation. 

I find Jimmy working, even sitting in a car, just so unbelievable if he had a hip replacement not long ago. And even thinking of rodeo? He should be glad just being able to get back on a horse again. 

On 8/3/2020 at 10:09 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

So, now, whatever treachery against his Dad that Jamie was plotting before the fateful moment he was told to get that birth certificate, is sure to happen.  Ugh.  I will say, his staring at the diploma and asking, "Who am I?" was pretty great.  That instance of sanity will not prevail.

We're thinking he was going forward on that offer from Willa/Roarke right? I get too wound up in the emotional parts of this show I sorta leave out the business side, has happened a lot why it was good I did a rerun of the entire series as I def missed some parts from earlier. 

And yes I'm pretty sure it won't be pretty when he gets out of the shock of this revelation. I wonder though if it will play out this season or will be going in to season 4? It would be good to know if Holloway signed up for just this season or the next one as well... 

On 8/5/2020 at 12:50 AM, Artsda said:

If Jamie's looking for Power of Attorney, is he looking to see if he still has it? If he does then John just needs to be removed from the equation and he can sell the land.

I think John had it switched to Beth right? When he fired Jamie, took away the credit cards and he was kicked out of the house? We saw him ask Beth to  make that change to the trust that ended up with Rip getting the house and Jamie stood there and asked her what the change was.

Jamie and Rip seem to be on some same parallels. Both birth fathers murdered their mothers, both taken in by John. Only main difference is one respects/idolizes John and the other does not. One Beth loves, the other she hates. 

John did ask Beth to switch in season one and I find it unlikely Beth wouldn't have done that in an instanse. Just the news made her smile wider than she usually does. But it looks like she might've not which is so OOC imo. If that matter would've come up in season two before the attack in her office then it would make sense she hadn't had time to get around to it or might've forgotten. But in season 1 Beth was both physically and mentally on point. 

I rewatched the entire series last week and I came upon a scene I hadn't remember between Rip/Jamie. When Jamie kills that reporter he goes to Rip for help, Rip first refuses telling him to go to his father but then Jamie sorta pulls the 'we used to be close' card and gets Rip to help out. So they were close and still seem to get along. (which to me reads as Rip has no idea Jamie has a part in Rip never being a father then or now)

On 8/5/2020 at 8:43 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Brutal to find out at Jamie's age that he's adopted. Wonder if Beth and Kayce know? Seems to me Beth wouldn't have been able to resist throwing that at Jamie at some point, given how much she hates him. 

A guy tricking his wife into adopting his kid by a woman he cheated on her with is fairly common daytime soap opera plotline. I'd be surprised if this show used it. That said, I have thought maybe John's wife got pregnant from an affair or she'd gotten raped. Something must explain John's harsh attitude toward Jamie.

I first figured Beth would've known but I'm now leaning towards they were all in the dark, bar John & wifey. I also think Beth wouldn't have been able to hold that tidbit in during one of their fights. I'm not really sure where this family stands on bloodrelations vs family can be blended though. It seems the name is no 1 but it seems like John sees everyone on the ranch as family - we've seen this with at least Rip and Jimmy. 

Do we know John has treated Jamie harshly though? Like he didn't treat (old) Lee with silver gloves either in that one episode we got to meet him. And he did have a feud with Kacey (over getting a girl knocked up at a young age) that lasted almost a decade. From what little we've seen from the flashbacks Jamie doesn't seem to be have treated any differently up until John suddenly ships him off to college. On other shows I've seen 'the murder gene' get mention a lot and maybe John wanted to make sure Jamie wouldn't follow in his birthfathers steps? To me it seems the resentment started when he got shipped off to law school, and it was more from Jamie's side than John's. I think John is hard against all his kids. He scolded Beth in season one when she verbally attacked the governor. And that was one dang scolding. 

I know my dislike for Jamie might be coloring my views though. 

14 hours ago, gaPeach said:

I find the adoption story line extremely hard to swallow.  The Duttons are a very prominent family in the County and town.  No way would the adoption gone without notice by all.  First, wife killed by husband who goes to jail.  Child left an orphan shows up on the Ranch with Duttons.  How did no one notice this? Ok lets say this goes unnoticed, as someone posted upthread how in the world did Jamie get to this age and never need or even see his birth certificate???  I am sure we all have a CERTIFIED copy of our birth certificates in house. This is the worse storylines.  

The next worse storyline............the sterilization of a minor without parent consent and no hospital time.  And Beth holds a grudge like I have never seen before.  She acts as though Jamie personally used a coat hanger on her against her will.  He was just a kid and not very bright.  It did not seem as though he had any nefarious hidden agenda when they showed him at the clinic.  She was upset and crying.  their father was an emotional void and both he and Beth were afraid of him so he did what he thought would help Beth.   

This is why it kills me to she Beth happy with Rip when she hates Jamie so much for something that was not much  more than a very stupid decision.  I do love her with Rip but that is only because I love Rip so much.  

I don't have a problem with other people not knowing. These people don't seem to talk much (except about ranch work) and the ranch is rather tight knit. John's cancer got around through rumors back in S1 but it was more hinted to and not something spoken straight out. John can probably put a lid on whatever he wants to. It happen what almost 40 years ago? I do think John & wifey should've told Jamie he was adopted but that's the parents decision. I do live in another country so things are probably handled differently but I've never seen my birth certificate. Not even sure if I have one or not. 

I stand by Beth holding a grudge, and not only 'cause it makes for great drama which this show is about. It was not a decision Jamie should've taken, and certainly not so flippantly. He was 17/18 and tried to play daddy Dutton. He changed Beth's life forever in that instance (not really weighing in on the steralization part cause I don't know enough about that to weigh in, she's saying she can't have babies so I'm just rolling with that). Had Jamie had any sense and humanity he would've gone to his dad to ask for advice. For his own sake and for his sister's sake. If you make a bad mistake as a youngster you have to own up to it as an adult. Which Jamie clearly doesn't. When he shows a cent of remorse then we can talk but for now - Jamie's earned the wrath he's getting from Beth. 

As for Beth's part in it that's a whole other subject and imo can't be discussed at the same time as discussing Jamie's part. 

Team Beth all the way! And I like Rip so much because of Beth. If we took away Beth in the equation I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like Rip as much. He would just be a typical Cro-Magnon character on my screen. Because of Beth (and part the backstory) Rip gets layers. Take away Rip from the character Beth and I would still like her cause she's a bad ass but Rip makes her even more so. 

[Haleth]

Yeah, I think the adoption storyline is going to connect Jamie to Wade's family.  I thought it was a pretty big anvil in the diner scene, all that talk about family and fatherhood.  What was the name on the birth certificate?  Garrett?  Isn't that Wade's last name?  And like you all I find it ludicrous to think that Jamie never saw his bc.

Jimmy up and about and dreaming of rodeoing again after breaking his back while (as of last week) Beth was still sporting bruises.  It's a miracle!

The writers are in overdrive trying to rehab Beth as someone who deserves our sympathy.  Yeah, she and Rip are cute together but both of them have done some pretty heinous things.  

[roughing it]

3 hours ago, MorbidPet said:

Had Jamie had any sense and humanity he would've gone to his dad to ask for advice.

Unless he couldn't.  In a perfect world, maybe, but with some parents, you just cannot.  Sometimes you have to deal with those situations on your own and hope everything will work out.  I know from experience.

[Artsda]

5 hours ago, MorbidPet said:

John did ask Beth to switch in season one and I find it unlikely Beth wouldn't have done that in an instanse. Just the news made her smile wider than she usually does. But it looks like she might've not which is so OOC imo

I agree, the Beth that ran to Jamie's office to get his credit cards wouldn't just forget to file those paper. She would have filled and hidden them so far Jamie wouldn't get his hands on them.

I think the last name on Jamie's papers was Randall?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

One fun nugget in the official papers:  John was a high school graduate.  His wife had a master's degree.  

REPORT OF ADOPTION

James Michael Randall  DOB 5/12/1979 MALE  Place of Birth BGH City of BOZEMAN  County of GALLATIN

Natural Mother Information  PHYLLIS MARY RANDALL

Natural Father Information GARRETT RANDALL

IDENTIFICATION OF ADOPTING PARENTS

JOHN DUTTON   Birth Place State  MT  Address  YELLOWSTONE RANCH PARADISE VALLEY  MT

Education:  High School Graduate or GED

Ethnicity:  Not Hispanic        White

EVELYN DUTTON  Birth Place State  MT  Address  YELLOWSTONE RANCH PARADISE VALLEY  MT

Education:  Master's Degree

Ethnicity  Not Hispanic          White

ATTORNEY/INVESTIGATIVE AGENCY

Ward & White  2946 Greensward Dr.  Bozeman, MT  59715  406-555-0127

Attorney  Lisa Ward

CHILD NAME AS IT APPEARS ON FINAL ORDER OF ADOPTION

JAMES MICHAEL DUTTON

Court Name  Park County District  District  FIRST  Court Docket Number 267229211  Date Granted  4/14/80   Case ID 6772

                                                                         XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

DECREE of ADOPTION

GARRETT RANDALL executed an Affidavit of Waiver of All Parental Rights, Relinquishment of Child, and Consent to Adoption in which he waived notice of this hearing, relinquished his parental rights, and consented to the adoption of JAMES MICHAEL RANDALL by Petitioner.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Lonesome Rhodes

[MorbidPet]

6 hours ago, roughing it said:

Unless he couldn't.  In a perfect world, maybe, but with some parents, you just cannot.  Sometimes you have to deal with those situations on your own and hope everything will work out.  I know from experience.

He can take accountability as I also wrote in my post. The adult Jamie should take accountability for his actions. 

1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

James Michael Randall  DOB 5/12/1979 MALE  Place of Birth BGH City of BOZEMAN  County of GALLATIN

Natural Mother Information  PHYLLIS MARY RANDALL

Natural Father Information GARRETT RANDALL

Very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to post that. I think the only way Wade could be involved in this would be if Phyllis was his sister. Wade could be Jamie's biological uncle but I find it hard to believe he's the bio father. Wade could be holding a grudge against JD as he himself said they were close friends (with bio parents) and saw what was happening beforehand. Jamie could be joining forces with grumpy uncle and dimwit cousin. Perfect fit imo 😏 

[zoey1996]

On 8/6/2020 at 1:42 PM, gaPeach said:

I am sure we all have a CERTIFIED copy of our birth certificates in house.

My official certified birth certificate has the names of my adoptive parents, no mention of adoption or bio parents.  I was adopted in 1953, and grew up knowing that I was adopted.  There is an earlier certificate that has my bio parents as parents, but I had to ask and, I think, know the name(s) to obtain a copy.  At that time, my state had open records (1983 or so), but I believe that law changed, making those records much more difficult to obtain.

[Dowel Jones]

During the confrontation in the restaurant, John blurts out "You have something that belongs to me", to which Wade retorts "Come and get it."  I think the grudge is more about something tangible, maybe some property, rather than a relationship.  Of course, what would a soap be without a big mystery behind everything?  We'll just have to wait to find out.

[Artsda]

3 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

During the confrontation in the restaurant, John blurts out "You have something that belongs to me", to which Wade retorts "Come and get it."

Could this be the brand? 

[JenMcSnark]

19 hours ago, MorbidPet said:

Team Beth all the way! And I like Rip so much because of Beth. If we took away Beth in the equation I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like Rip as much. He would just be a typical Cro-Magnon character on my screen. Because of Beth (and part the backstory) Rip gets layers. Take away Rip from the character Beth and I would still like her cause she's a bad ass but Rip makes her even more so. 

Haha!  I'm Team Rip all the way!  I have only mostly liked Beth in this season and a bit in the last.  Before, I thought she was a caricature of a ball-busting, strong woman.  But I love them together and it certainly gives the actress more range to show and she's doing it well IMO.  I always felt that Rip had layers, but we weren't really allowed to see them.  

[rr2911]

As far as Jamie being adopted, maybe John's wife had an affair with Jamie's bio dad? When Jamie's dad went to prison for killing his wife, that's when Jamie was adopted.

Another thing about Jamie/Beth's feud. Jamie made a decision not to splatter the Dutton name, so he made the decision to have the abortion at that place. It was the wrong decision of course. But what strikes me odd is when Jamie and Beth are arguing and Beth tells Jamie that he is "evil". So....that one incident, no matter how horrible it was, is it enough to call someone evil? Wouldn't that individual have had to do more bad stuff, more bad decisions to be called evil? I think there is something else besides the abortion issue.

   

[NetflixandChill]

On 8/7/2020 at 6:37 AM, Haleth said:

The writers are in overdrive trying to rehab Beth as someone who deserves our sympathy.  Yeah, she and Rip are cute together but both of them have done some pretty heinous things.  

And that's why I just can't get on board with Beth. I'm all for dark shows, and have watched my share of them. I love complicated women, and tough women, but Beth is a character that has grated my nerves so much, there are times where I have had to step away from the show. I only recently found it, and have been binging it with my family, and have cut a couple nights short because she just irritates me so much. 

Maybe it's because I binged the show that I can't get on board with her character more this season, but she's just so heinous. There was one scene, I think with one of the Beck brothers from last season. She had some great one-liners, and then she just had to go and throw in one last line that was just too much, and that, to me, is her character in a nutshell. She always has to go for one more dig, and it's always too far. And her violence just makes me really uncomfortable. I wouldn't be comfortable with any man beating on a woman the way she has done to Jamie, and I'm not ok with it just because she's a woman. I mean, John told Jamie in season 1 that if he touched Beth again he'd put his head through a wall, yet is just chill as Beth beats the shit out of Jamie in front of him, and then later gleefully talks about needing a week to push Jamie all the way to a successful suicide, and then gives Beth more ammunition by not being able to say he loves Jamie like her or Kayce.  

To me, her character is so heinous that I just don't care about the abortion and sterilization. I don't feel sympathy for her, and any depth or layers they try and give her just means nothing to me because they've spent 2 seasons doubling down on every bad part of her character. The hate for Jamie feels completely one-dimensional and Jamie may suck, but my god, I'd rather watch just about anyone else on my screen than see her in a scene with anyone but Rip, because those are the only scenes where it feels like she has any honest dimension. 

[Raja]

On 8/7/2020 at 8:00 PM, Artsda said:

Could this be the brand? 

That was my thought. One of the Dutton Janissaries went out as a mercenary

[JenMcSnark]

2 hours ago, NetflixandChill said:

And that's why I just can't get on board with Beth. I'm all for dark shows, and have watched my share of them. I love complicated women, and tough women, but Beth is a character that has grated my nerves so much, there are times where I have had to step away from the show. I only recently found it, and have been binging it with my family, and have cut a couple nights short because she just irritates me so much. 

Maybe it's because I binged the show that I can't get on board with her character more this season, but she's just so heinous. There was one scene, I think with one of the Beck brothers from last season. She had some great one-liners, and then she just had to go and throw in one last line that was just too much, and that, to me, is her character in a nutshell. She always has to go for one more dig, and it's always too far. And her violence just makes me really uncomfortable. I wouldn't be comfortable with any man beating on a woman the way she has done to Jamie, and I'm not ok with it just because she's a woman. I mean, John told Jamie in season 1 that if he touched Beth again he'd put his head through a wall, yet is just chill as Beth beats the shit out of Jamie in front of him, and then later gleefully talks about needing a week to push Jamie all the way to a successful suicide, and then gives Beth more ammunition by not being able to say he loves Jamie like her or Kayce.  

To me, her character is so heinous that I just don't care about the abortion and sterilization. I don't feel sympathy for her, and any depth or layers they try and give her just means nothing to me because they've spent 2 seasons doubling down on every bad part of her character. The hate for Jamie feels completely one-dimensional and Jamie may suck, but my god, I'd rather watch just about anyone else on my screen than see her in a scene with anyone but Rip, because those are the only scenes where it feels like she has any honest dimension. 

I have to agree with you regarding the bolded.  This has always really bothered me and is what made me not want Beth with Rip in the first place.  I know Rip has committed murder probably several times over, but to me, it's less heinous because he has to do it to stay on the ranch.  And his feeling as a young kid who just killed his father and then was taken in by John makes/made him super vulnerable.  I believe John took advantage of him by keeping him on the ranch and "protecting" him when no authority was going to prosecute that kid for killing his father as the father was killing his family.  Now it's all Rip knows...and he even hinted that he doesn't have any legal identity away from the ranch.  

Beth comes from a position of power and uses it in a way that I'm uncomfortable with.  

Another example is when Monica was targeted and harassed by the white shop worker lady.  Beth comes to save the day and while I was okay with her humiliating the lady a little bit verbally, etc. to give her a taste of how Monica felt, the making her strip etc., was really not okay.  It's not okay to fight abuse with more abuse in my opinion.  

[toodywoody]

That mf Wade needs to be taken to fhe train station or he needs to disappear on the reservation.

[mxc90]

Welcome back the wicked side of Beth! At least fire her after she cleaned up the mess!

Way too late for John to set boundaries with Beth.

Oh! Hell No! The sniper and police knew the killer was going to stop at that location to attack. Were the people in the red car in on the sting too and didn't stop to pick up Monica? 

Monica doesn't read the papers? Doesn't seem right for a college professor. How fortunate Rainwater had one available.

Good for Dutton to not tell Tate how he got the callus on his right hand.

Seems like the first time Jamie and Kayce had a scene together in a long time.

In season one, wasn't Kayce a horse whisperer? He should have taken a crack at taming the horse.

Colby found out the hard way to never follow Teeter. Were there any bodies in the water? With the quick cuts, couldn't tell if they were just being beaten with the rope and/or stomped by the horses.

Wade's son finally got a little payback but he will probably be dead next week.

Why did the governor push to have Jamie appointed Attorney General if he would be forced to resign in this matter?

Does Walker have some special knowledge about the ranch that required him to be killed? He wanted to leave and Rip gave him a ride out of town. Walker hasn't talked, so Lloyd should let it be.

[Sharper2002]

Quote

  ON 8/7/2020 AT 7:37 AM, HALETH SAID:

The writers are in overdrive trying to rehab Beth as someone who deserves our sympathy.  Yeah, she and Rip are cute together but both of them have done some pretty heinous things.  

And that's why I just can't get on board with Beth. I'm all for dark shows, and have watched my share of them. I love complicated women, and tough women, but Beth is a character that has grated my nerves so much, there are times where I have had to step away from the show. I only recently found it, and have been binging it with my family, and have cut a couple nights short because she just irritates me so much. 

Maybe it's because I binged the show that I can't get on board with her character more this season, but she's just so heinous. There was one scene, I think with one of the Beck brothers from last season. She had some great one-liners, and then she just had to go and throw in one last line that was just too much, and that, to me, is her character in a nutshell. She always has to go for one more dig, and it's always too far. And her violence just makes me really uncomfortable. I wouldn't be comfortable with any man beating on a woman the way she has done to Jamie, and I'm not ok with it just because she's a woman. I mean, John told Jamie in season 1 that if he touched Beth again he'd put his head through a wall, yet is just chill as Beth beats the shit out of Jamie in front of him, and then later gleefully talks about needing a week to push Jamie all the way to a successful suicide, and then gives Beth more ammunition by not being able to say he loves Jamie like her or Kayce.  

To me, her character is so heinous that I just don't care about the abortion and sterilization. I don't feel sympathy for her, and any depth or layers they try and give her just means nothing to me because they've spent 2 seasons doubling down on every bad part of her character. The hate for Jamie feels completely one-dimensional and Jamie may suck, but my god, I'd rather watch just about anyone else on my screen than see her in a scene with anyone but Rip, because those are the only scenes where it feels like she has any honest dimension. 

Amen to this entire post. Even at her most lovey-dovey with Rip and troubled teenage years, I can't muster much sympathy for her character. I've seen a lot of people advocating that she's a "strong woman" and I've even seen T-shirts praising her attitude and I wonder what world I'm living in.

And her little snit with the assistant in tonight's episode? Yeah Beth, you firing her from her entry-level job because she dared bring your spoiled ass some tea during a tense time is really going to toughen her up. And calling someone names when you're pissed doesn't make you tough - it's actually the opposite.  I still hope Willa Hayes gives her a run for her money until her and Kevin Costner come out on top.

When Monica got into the car with the guy, I was really worried about her and wondering what she was doing. I was happy that it was a sting operation and saddened they found so many other remains, and this is the reality and not just for show. 

Walker has balls - he didn't even leave the state! I wonder if Rip is going to let his dark side take over. 

The only person I care about is Colby and I hope he's still alive. He literally doesn't bother anyone.

Oh, and if I were Jamie I'd say F that family. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Well, we're back to fantasyland insanity.  

The tribe set up the engineer, whom they knew would stop at that exact spot, and the tribe had not found the victim(s) for which the whistle blew?  Huh?  If they already knew of that place, this discovery would have taken place long ago.  DNA would also have been taken.  Mr. Engineer would never have had the chance to take Monica from the spot her car "died."  Also, she had a rock which she mashed his skull with, which stunned him.  Does she hit him again?  Of course not.  She runs.  Then she declares she killed the man.  Yep, it's the worm's/bait's fault that a fish is caught and killed by a fisherman.  And we are to take her seriously.

We are back to square one with her and her allegiance to the tribe and not to her vows to Kayce.  Like John, she wants it all her way.  Kayce is just stoopid enough to accept her betrayal.  Everyone (cast) said there was gonna be some bigtime tension introduced into the "marriage."  Ugh.

I'd love to know how Market Equities (ME) management has the backing of their board and investors while making such idiotic equity plays.  Their foray into buying Schwartz cost them many millions.  They took an enormous bath.   This, while losing a boatload of value as their stock tanked thanks to Beth.  And Willa was further granted the right to offer $500 more million for highly speculative land (the Yellowstone).  Why wasn't I lucky enough to work for such fools?  In any event, the U.S. SEC would be intensely interested in what was being pulled.

Maybe Bob bought will have bought enough stock to sway the Board to not go through with the development.  Of course, if he were buying THAT much, ME would have known about it.  It is unclear whose cash Beth was "investing" in ME (all those clicks we saw her execute on her laptop).  Bob's?  Schwartz's?  Mysterious and unnamed Angel?  No, not Angela.  Beth was well into those buys before any results from her phone call with her new frenemy could have occurred.

Sheridan also entirely neutered Roarke.  He was shown flailing away and had nothing to do with the moves made by Willa.  Tell me again what the point of that character is?  

So John is all worried about a promise made to someone outside the family.  He's fine with betraying his oft-stated vow to leave his children well off.  Thanks to ME's malfeasance (outrageous offer), he can do just that.  But, his loyalty is to someone outside the family.  Sorry, Sheridan, you do not get that suspension of disbelief from me.  Dutton is obviously holding some hole cards in this poker game.  I'd go all in against him if I had the resources (chips) Willa and Roarke supposedly have to play with.

As always, the scenes of cowboying were super cool.  Giving the horse his freedom was a nice moment.  

 

 

[bichonblitz]

So Kaycee knows Jamie was adopted? Jamie saying (paraphrasing here) "I need some help, brother, if I can still call you brother" and Kaycee saying you will always be my brother. Sleek how the writers just slid that in there with no further explanation. This show. 

[absolutelyido]

I call foul on the assertion that if John doesn't accept the offer of $500 million for some of his land the state will take it for something like 15 cents an acre and the Duttons will end up with almost nothing. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the law is pretty clear on this. If the government declares eminent domain to take someone's land, they have to pay fair market value for it. Given that the Dutton's have a legitimate written offer of $500 million for the land, I would think that pretty clearly establishes that as the fair market value.

About Beth. I haven't watch the series from the beginning, but I did go back and watch the scenes where Evelyn Dutton died because I had read she blamed Beth. Even before Evelyn fell from the horse, she was really nasty to Beth. Was it ever explained why Evelyn had this antipathy toward Beth? She appeared to be a terrible mother. Was she just a nasty person in general? 

 

[NeenerNeener]

14 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Does Walker have some special knowledge about the ranch that required him to be killed? He wanted to leave and Rip gave him a ride out of town. Walker hasn't talked, so Lloyd should let it be.

I thought is was Kacey that escorted Walker out of town. Rip was all set to kill him, for banging Beth if for nothing else.

Ooooo, horrible thought....Rip goes to jail for killing Walker (why else would they bring Walker back right when Rip and Beth get engaged) and Beth goes to work for Josh Holloway.

Edited August 10, 2020 by NeenerNeener

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, NeenerNeener said:

I thought is was Kacey that escorted Walker out of town. Rip was all set to kill him, for banging Beth if for nothing else.

Correct - Rip had Walker help cover the murder of the reporter and was going to "drive him to the train station" but Kayce stepped in and drove him out of town instead.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

3 hours ago, absolutelyido said:

I call foul on the assertion that if John doesn't accept the offer of $500 million for some of his land the state will take it for something like 15 cents an acre and the Duttons will end up with almost nothing. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the law is pretty clear on this. If the government declares eminent domain to take someone's land, they have to pay fair market value for it. Given that the Dutton's have a legitimate written offer of $500 million for the land, I would think that pretty clearly establishes that as the fair market value.

 

I agree that 15% is a lowball estimate.  However, eminent domain valuations are notoriously unfair to the property owners.  Also, Dutton's estate is still obligated to pay all debt.  It is inconceivable to me that he has not already borrowed against a significant portion of the land.

The other consideration is that the government would not want to buy the whole enchilada.  They would grab a portion of it which would split the land holdings.  

[Raja]

All those rodeo as a business folks from the kid on up sure dress up fancy for guys working without any cameras around.

[Raja]

12 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Well, we're back to fantasyland insanity.  

The tribe set up the engineer, whom they knew would stop at that exact spot, and the tribe had not found the victim(s) for which the whistle blew?  Huh?  If they already knew of that place, this discovery would have taken place long ago.  DNA would also have been taken.  Mr. Engineer would never have had the chance to take Monica from the spot her car "died."  Also, she had a rock which she mashed his skull with, which stunned him.  Does she hit him again?  Of course not.  She runs.  Then she declares she killed the man.  Yep, it's the worm's/bait's fault that a fish is caught and killed by a fisherman.  And we are to take her seriously.

We are back to square one with her and her allegiance to the tribe and not to her vows to Kayce.  Like John, she wants it all her way.  Kayce is just stoopid enough to accept her betrayal.  Everyone (cast) said there was gonna be some bigtime tension introduced into the "marriage."  Ugh.

 

I guess she didn't know that she was being part of an extra judicial execution. I was expecting the Tribal Police to swoop in when the Chairman's fixer fired. But they were out or range with their asset in peril of her life so I would say the shot was justified if it wasn't the plan from the beginning.

Just before watching this I was watching an Australian show, Sea Patrol and a sailor  did the exact same same thing  of not making sure and he knew that he didn't have back up nearby.

[SuzieQ]

17 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Welcome back the wicked side of Beth! At least fire her after she cleaned up the mess!

Way too late for John to set boundaries with Beth.

Oh! Hell No! The sniper and police knew the killer was going to stop at that location to attack. Were the people in the red car in on the sting too and didn't stop to pick up Monica? 

Monica doesn't read the papers? Doesn't seem right for a college professor. How fortunate Rainwater had one available.

 

Light stuff first::  That last scene with John/Beth had me rolling!  "I Love our man to man talks but I can't unhear that honey"  LMAO!!  That made all the crazy shit happening before worth sitting through!

So many questions:

  Can someone explain the Monica scene?  Do we know who that guy was that picked her up?  How did they just happen to have a sniper sitting there with rifle ready to shoot??  And then 6-7 cop cars show up in the middle of nowhere?  I feel like I missed a big chunk of that plot line.

The Wade scene with them skinny dipping:  What was that about?  Did he kill them?  I'm sure he was sending John a message but it seemed so random.

I will probably watch again as there was a lot of chatter going on during the episode so I feel like I missed important parts.

[Raja]

10 minutes ago, SuzieQ said:

 

  Can someone explain the Monica scene?  Do we know who that guy was that picked her up?  How did they just happen to have a sniper sitting there with rifle ready to shoot??  And then 6-7 cop cars show up in the middle of nowhere?  I feel like I missed a big chunk of that plot line.

The Wade scene with them skinny dipping:  What was that about?  Did he kill them?  I'm sure he was sending John a message but it seemed so random.

I will probably watch again as there was a lot of chatter going on during the episode so I feel like I missed important parts.

The Chairman got Monica to serve as a police decoy after a serial killer rapist. I would guess they didn't have real proof but he had to be a suspect going in. It doesn't make sense that they knew of a serial killers dumping ground but had not recovered his victims so I can only guess that they were over the horizon  ready to ponce and when his truck stopped the sniper rushed to his spot. But none of this was told to us in order for the audience to be more afraid for Monica before the shock of blood splatter hit.

I don't think the ranch hands died, there is just another force out there  showing they as willing to fight as Dutton is to deploy his branded men on a dirty mission. But neither side is willing to back down or use lethal force yet..

[SuzieQ]

43 minutes ago, Raja said:

The Chairman got Monica to serve as a police decoy after a serial killer rapist. I would guess they didn't have real proof but he had to be a suspect going in. It doesn't make sense that they knew of a serial killers dumping ground but had not recovered his victims so I can only guess that they were over the horizon  ready to ponce and when his truck stopped the sniper rushed to his spot. But none of this was told to us in order for the audience to be more afraid for Monica before the shock of blood splatter hit.

I don't think the ranch hands died, there is just another force out there  showing they as willing to fight as Dutton is to deploy his branded men on a dirty mission. But neither side is willing to back down or use lethal force yet..

Thank you!  I totally missed the Monica subplot!!  I need to watch again.

[Raja]

Well none of it was said for the jump scare shock effect, the Chairman just went to her in the previous episode and on this one she shows up in her tight shirt which Kayce thinks is for painting.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Monica didn't seem particularly dressed down to me. Wonder why they had Kayce make such a big deal about it?

One thing I'll say for Beth, she's persistent with laser-like focus. Though to her own detriment it seems.

Kayce lassos one guy out of a moving truck and now he's the town hero. Pssht. So much for being a SEAL. 🙄

Wait, that was a setup? With Monica as the bait? Meh. Not a great way to make her character relevant, IMO. But it was a a great way to find the guy's dumping (and raping) ground.

That sorrel was like, "Bye, suckas! Ain't no man gonna hold me down! 🎶Born free!🎶

That skinny dipping gone way wrong scene bothered the hell out of me. Why kill (or try to) a couple of random Dutton ranchhands? How did they even know Teeter and Colby would be there? No matter, Wade and his son are about to suffer the often fatal Wrath of John. And Rip.

Oh please, Monica didn't kill anybody. AFAIC, at best she helped that guy get himself killed. And that's after his raping and murdering who knows how many Native women with impunity. He needed killin'.

Quote

Tell me again what the point of that character is?  

He's there for Beth to honeypot and then for Rip to break up with her over it.

[xtwheeler]

7 hours ago, absolutelyido said:

I call foul on the assertion that if John doesn't accept the offer of $500 million for some of his land the state will take it for something like 15 cents an acre and the Duttons will end up with almost nothing. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the law is pretty clear on this. If the government declares eminent domain to take someone's land, they have to pay fair market value for it. Given that the Dutton's have a legitimate written offer of $500 million for the land, I would think that pretty clearly establishes that as the fair market value. 

The 15¢ was on the dollar, not per acre. 

There's also specific csselaw in many jurisdictions which essentially states just because you have had a sweetheart deal on offer, that does not necessarily establish "fair market value." Just as when purchasing a house, you still need an independent valuation for your bank to approve your mortgage. Just because you offered a certain amount of $, even if there were multiple offers, does not make that the fair market value that your bank is willing to finance. 

Are we go assume Teeter and (cowboy whose name I can't remember) are dead? How did the guy they killed end up on stage? And why is the ranch failing financially? 

[Raja]

2 minutes ago, xtwheeler said:

 How did the guy they killed end up on stage? And why is the ranch failing financially? 

I thought he jumped from the car on the way to the execution. Gun battles with the Tribal Police and last years's rival along with the herd being poisoned  must have hit them hard  and vulnerable.

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

 

Oh please, Monica didn't kill anybody. AFAIC, at best she helped that guy get himself killed. And that's after his raping and murdering who knows how many Native women with impunity. He needed killin'.

 

There is a difference in bringing someone to justice and going out to kill without benefit of a trial and death penalty. If the Chairman set up a hit then Monica is part of a government death squad. If the shot was just to rescue her because back up was too far away then it is more nuanced. 

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, xtwheeler said:

How did the guy they killed end up on stage?

They didn't kill him. Rip was going to "take him to the train station" but Kayce stepped in and drove him off the ranch. They talked during the drive, and Kayce ended up dropping him off and letting him live. Lloyd's comment was because he assumed Kayce killed the guy rather then let him leave alive.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

There is a difference in bringing someone to justice and going out to kill without benefit of a trial and death penalty. If the Chairman set up a hit then Monica is part of a government death squad. If the shot was just to rescue her because back up was too far away then it is more nuanced. 

Of course. It seemed fairly evident to me though that it was a planned hit. On reddit someone speculated that Monica was wearing tracker and that's how the sniper was able to get into position to take the shot. The guys in the SUVs and trucks had to stay far enough away not to be detected by the perp. Monica's main fear was likely whether she'd be able hang on long enough for the headshot to happen.

I got no problem with the lack a of trial and the instant death penalty. The guy took advantage of a jurisdictional loophole to rape and murder Native women on their reservation. Why drag out justice? But now I guess Monica has been put in some kind of moral peril due to her part in it. Boo hoo.

[SG429]

Killing sure is casual  in Montana. "I killed a man today." "That's funny, so did I. Did you pick up dinner?"

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Of course. It seemed fairly evident to me though that it was a planned hit. On reddit someone speculated that Monica was wearing tracker and that's how the sniper was able to get into position to take the shot. The guys in the SUVs and trucks had to stay far enough away not to be detected by the perp. Monica's main fear was likely whether she'd be able hang on long enough for the headshot to happen.

I got no problem with the lack a of trial and the instant death penalty. The guy took advantage of a jurisdictional loophole to rape and murder Native women on their reservation. Why drag out justice? But now I guess Monica has been put in some kind of moral peril due to her part in it. Boo hoo.

Baltimore Detective Kima Greggs on The Wire "Sometimes things just got to play hard"

The case was never made that other methods failed and the Tribal Police were at the Dirty Harry option. But then Yellowstone is one of those shows like Sons of Anarchy or Animal Kingdom where there is no good team just a few characters you hope will survive

Edited August 11, 2020 by Raja

[JenMcSnark]

4 hours ago, Raja said:

I thought he jumped from the car on the way to the execution. Gun battles with the Tribal Police and last years's rival along with the herd being poisoned  must have hit them hard  and vulnerable.

There is a difference in bringing someone to justice and going out to kill without benefit of a trial and death penalty. If the Chairman set up a hit then Monica is part of a government death squad. If the shot was just to rescue her because back up was too far away then it is more nuanced. 

I may be fan wanking but I felt like Mo Brings Plenty was the backup plan.  If the rapist/murderer trolls that stretch of highway, he is probably very aware of where a police SUV can hide and if he spotted any, he wouldn't be stupid enough to do anything to Monica.

And, the last girl who was murdered also had a car breakdown and they felt that she walked from her vehicle and then got picked up.  So it could be that the last murder left them with more information as to what was happening to the young women who went missing and where the guy was operating.

So, knowing that an excellent rider on an excellent horse who is an excellent shot would be able to keep an eye on Monica and call for assistance, they had Mo Brings Plenty following her at a distance.  But somehow things went a little sideways and he had to kill the dude because he was going to kill Monica.  

I don't know...it does require some fan wanking for sure.  lol  But I actually really appreciated the scenes and the acting.  I got teary in several places for some reason.