S02.E02: Sting of the Tail

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

FBI Agent Hannah Wells finally closes in on Patrick Lloyd, but when the president decides to take action during the White House Correspondents Dinner, members of the Homeland Security Council threaten to derail their plans.

[paigow]

Who was the genius that decided Homeland Security needed a council? 

[marinw]

I just don't know with this show.

[janeta]

On 10/1/2017 at 7:16 PM, paigow said:

Who was the genius that decided Homeland Security needed a council? 

I asume they mean counsel, as in lawyers...?

 

https://www.dhs.gov/organization/ogc-office-general-counsel

 

 

and yes, Eva looked like a hooker.

Edited October 5, 2017 by janeta

[janeta]

Uh... no. The only bunker around those parts belongs to the Federal Support Center, and that's not what it looks like. (It's right next to the alpaca farm.)

Edited October 5, 2017 by janeta

[janeta]

Show of hands: who believes it was somebody else's body they dug out of the bunker? (Unless it was a stray alpaca.)

 

-sticks hand up-

[Frozendiva]

Was distracted most of the ep. Not much to say. The President at least went to the Correspondents Dinner.

[oakville]

I guess the writers decided to copy of the real life scenario when Obama ordered the Seal Team 6 to attack Bin Laden's compound while preparing for the White House Corresponent's dinner.

Why didn't the First Mother in Law have Secret Service Protection ?

Maggie Q finally got back up this week.

[TobinAlbers]

Well Aaron now has a love interest with the newly hired White House council. That's something.

[Danielg342]

Episode Grade:

Well, I've been saying all along- if this was either The Maggie Q Show or The Kiefer Show, it would be a much better show.

Tonight I was right.

Yeah, it was cliched, with the courtroom drama making it very ham-fisted...but it was fun watching Hannah and Damian run around with the President really only a peripheral figure tonight.

This was more the show I thought they would do, one that I think is better suited to its talents- Maggie Q, action star and Kiefer Sutherland...well, we all know where he came from.

So, while I wouldn't call this a return to the glory days...it was a solid effort and something I think the show could work with, since I'm not sure political drama is really its forte.

[Blue Plastic]

43 minutes ago, janeta said:

Show of hands: who believes it was somebody else's body they dug out of the bunker? (Unless it was a stray alpaca.)

 

-sticks hand up-

Normally I would think Lloyd is still alive, but perhaps the showrunners are looking to jettison him so they can move on to other ideas.  That's just speculation on my part, but it WAS weird that they didn't show his charred body or something for at least a somewhat more satisfying ending.  They don't know what they're doing, do they?!

33 minutes ago, oakville said:

Why didn't the First Mother in Law have Secret Service Protection ?

Yeah, this didn't make any sense either.  You've got one bodyguard who is performing his job by watching over you and you send him away?  Whatever!

This show.  I want to like it.

[Moose135]

25 minutes ago, Blue Plastic said:

This show.  I want to like it.

And they are making it tough to do, aren't they?

We got more West Wing-lite tonight, with the WH correspondents' dinner where the writer forgets to bring the funny, the posse comitatus issue in dealing with a bad guy - I was hoping that would come up when they were talking about an air strike on the bunker, but I have to wonder about how they dealt with it.  They still used a military drone, so how do they get around the law by having an FBI guy give the order to the drone operator, rather than a military guy.

And speaking of the drone strike, when the first guy (I assume he was Army from his uniform) suggested the bunker buster bomb, and they mentioned an F-16 strike, POTUS (I think) said they didn't want to do that so as to not alarm the public.  I think that big ass explosion would have that effect no matter how it was delivered, and an F-16 could have done it from altitude where no one on the ground would have heard it anyway.

I'm getting close to bailing on this - it had plenty of promise, but it's just not living up to it.

[madhacker]

what kills me is the fact that the counsel tried to protect Lloyd. Oh give me a break. This maniac and his little cult is responsible for the biggest terrorist attack in US history (at least in the show). He would've been the most wanted man in the entire world. Put it this way, what would Jed Bartlett do if he had to make the same decision?

[piequinn35]

Lloyd's gone (is he really gone?) new threats on the preview, Is it Alex now? ?

[Dowel Jones]

I was rather distracted as well through the episode.  As soon as they brought up the posse comitatus issue, I thought, while valid, there would be a much easier way to deal with it.  Nothing in the Constitution prohibits a foreign military from taking action against an American citizen.  Canada, for instance.  And Kiefer could easily get them off the hook. 

On the other hand, what are the optics going to be when 1)the public is apprised of an airstrike with a bunkerbuster bomb, 2)Senator GuestStar from Missouri (and, by the way, if he was really was a  Missouri native, he would have pronounced it Missour-a) leaks again after the fact that the President wanted to use the military, 3)despite the transfer (IRL) of military gear to police forces, it's doubtful that the FBI has weaponized drones, and, 4)just after the drone attack, the HSC counsel is appointed chief counsel to the White House.

Was this the same bunker setup that S1 used for the hideout?  It sure looked like it. 

A White House kid!  A precedent has been set.

[Chas411]

4 hours ago, Moose135 said:

And they are making it tough to do, aren't they?

As the episodes go on its like they're trying to alienate the few viewers they have left.

[Danielg342]

5 hours ago, madhacker said:

what kills me is the fact that the counsel tried to protect Lloyd. Oh give me a break.

That bugged me too. I would only think the most A-hole of lawyers would defend a guy like that. I mean, can you imagine someone trying to stop the SEAL team from getting Osama bin Laden?

I doubt you'd be practicing law after that.

I also think Kirkman has a lot of trust issues...seems like he can never tell someone anything without them violating his confidence.

[Biggie B]

I thought the President's in-laws were Russian (hence him having learned Russian) - yet his mother in law sure had no accent of any sort. 

Was the little daughter played by a different actress? 

[oakville]

11 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Well Aaron now has a love interest with the newly hired White House council. That's something.

That plot point was copied from the West Wing when Jed Bartlett hired Ainsley Hayes.

Do the writers get in trouble for stealing plot points from other White House themed shows?

3 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

That bugged me too. I would only think the most A-hole of lawyers would defend a guy like that. I mean, can you imagine someone trying to stop the SEAL team from getting Osama bin Laden?

I doubt you'd be practicing law after that.

I also think Kirkman has a lot of trust issues...seems like he can never tell someone anything without them violating his confidence.

Agreed. I have never heard of this Homeland Council. Doesn't the President have the ability to launch military strikes without Congress?

Is it because Lloyd was a US citizen? I am pretty sure Obama was allowed to target US citizens with drones when they went to join ISIS in the Middle East.

[Moose135]

31 minutes ago, oakville said:

That plot point was copied from the West Wing when Jed Bartlett hired Ainsley Hayes.

Thank you! I knew there was another TWW plot point they had used, but forgot it when I was posting above.  It was after midnight, and I had just finished watching this thing, so please forgive me. ;-)

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, oakville said:

Doesn't the President have the ability to launch military strikes without Congress?

I believe he does- that's what Trump did in Syria if I recall.

If I was Kirkman, I would have just launched the drone and deal with the political fallout later. Because all this lawyering did was put the country in even more danger than it needed to be.

Besides, Congressional Hearings into the drone strike could have made for good drama.

[shafted]

The first family was back so that always brings down an episode a notch or two. 

Kirkman was smart and passionate and confident and had to be talked out of doing something politically naive only once this week. Score a win for Kirkman.

Seth and his smile remain a bright spot in each episode. Aaron and his hair (with bonus tux and casual wear) were another bright spot. 

Glad that Aaron and Emily rebounded and got to regain some of their competence this week. Hopefully it’s Seth’s turn next week. I missed Aaron/Emily/Seth interaction this week. It’s always a welcome addition to an episode. The 3 actors play really well off of each other. 

So far Lyor hasn’t brought anything new to the table except for a quip here or there. His advice and job isn’t any different than what Emily and Aaron, and even Seth, did all last year. He’s still feeling pretty pointless as a main character. 

The new lawyer character theoretically should provide something new but I wasn’t intrigued by yesterday’s effort. Maybe it’ll get better as she’s brought into the White House plots/dynamics.  I’m glad others noticed that her intro felt like a rip off of the Ainsley Hayes WW introduction. Glad I wasn’t imagining things.  Except yesterday’s scene between Kirkman and the lawyer was just flat out bad. Pretty poor dialogue and even more poorly executed. Except for Kiefer. He played it well and did what he could with the scene but the rest of it? Nope. 

The Maggie Q/conspiracy half of the episode was relatively strong this week. There was discussion of deploying more than just Hannah and her sidekick to bring down Lloyd. Hannah was smart and in super spy mode but not absurdly reckless. There was actual communication between all of the parties involved as the situation unfolded. I didn’t mind MI6 new guy. I always enjoy Chuck. I’m glad Reed Diamond didn’t get the boot between seasons. I hope resolution of the Lloyd matter doesn’t mean he disappears now.

That said, after a year plus of build up to this confrontation and take down of the country’s greatest enemy, the best reason the writers could come up with for Lloyd’s treason was unresolved daddy issues? Okay.

[oakville]

1 hour ago, Moose135 said:

Thank you! I knew there was another TWW plot point they had used, but forgot it when I was posting above.  It was after midnight, and I had just finished watching this thing, so please forgive me. ;-)

This show makes me want to dig out my West Wing DVD's from the basement. I could send the writers of Designated Survivor episode summaries so they could get more ideas.

IIRC Ainsley was hired because she made a fool of Josh on a Sunday talk show.

I wonder if Seth has gained weight since last season or caught a bad cold.? His face looks bloated & he sounds congested with flem when he speaks.

The WHCD jokes were lame.

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, shafted said:

I hope resolution of the Lloyd matter doesn’t mean he disappears now.

They made mention at the end that data showed that he was in the middle of a computer transmission when the bomb hit.  In keeping with the ever more absurd plot devices, Lloyd has developed the technology to upload himself to the cloud.  Look out, America.

[TimWil]

Alex is EVIL. EVIL, I tell you!

That’s all I got until she’s exposed. This show sucks and its low ratings reflect that. Look for Quantico’s final season to take over the time slot in January.

Edited October 5, 2017 by TimWil

[Moose135]

3 hours ago, oakville said:

IIRC Ainsley was hired because she made a fool of Josh on a Sunday talk show.

Sam, not Josh.

JOSH: Toby. Come quick! Sam's getting his ass kicked by a girl!

TOBY: Ginger, get the popcorn!

[secnarf]

7 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I thought the President's in-laws were Russian (hence him having learned Russian) - yet his mother in law sure had no accent of any sort. 

Was the little daughter played by a different actress? 

I was confused about the Russian thing too. Why would he learn Russian if they speak native-level English? Unless the dad struggles more with English.

I am pretty sure the daughter was the same actress. She just got older.

[paigow]

4 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

They made mention at the end that data showed that he was in the middle of a computer transmission when the bomb hit.  In keeping with the ever more absurd plot devices, Lloyd has developed the technology to upload himself to the cloud.  Look out, America.

The T1 landline to the bunker was cut...No way Lloyd could fix it...How did the second video call work?

[Moose135]

19 minutes ago, paigow said:

The T1 landline to the bunker was cut...No way Lloyd could fix it...How did the second video call work?

I think they said something about rerouting it to the command center, so I assumed they cut the line to the outside world and connected directly to a line feeding the center.  I don't know if that's possible, but I guess in DS-world, it may be.

[oakville]

3 hours ago, Moose135 said:

Sam, not Josh.

JOSH: Toby. Come quick! Sam's getting his ass kicked by a girl!

TOBY: Ginger, get the popcorn!

Yes! It was Sam. He was annoyed when he found out that she was hired. That show is a welcome balm for today's political climate.

[Tikichick]

Personally I was totally sold that the guy doing all of the tech support work for Hannah had time to view all of that surveillance video and managed to identify Lloyd by his ear.  Surely he could have used his spare time to write some better jokes to help Seth out and possibly whip up a gown the president's mother in law would care to wear to the WHCD.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Personally I was totally sold that the guy doing all of the tech support work for Hannah had time to view all of that surveillance video and watch the old Elementary episode about ear prints....

[Pindrop]

I got five minutes into this episode and turned it off. Any residual interest I had in the show has vanished, and it is too bland to even hate watch. 

[paigow]

Are date/ time stamps standard for the remainder of this season???

Did Lloyd arrive in D.C. and get killed all within 24 hours??

Edited October 6, 2017 by paigow

[mookster]

That was POTUS's mother, not mother-in-law. And I agree having the First Family back is not a bonus. I just can't buy POTUS's wife -- I find her interactions with him so meh. She's either overly effusive, overly concerned or "going to check on the kids." The FBI agent who does it all is getting a little tiresome too. I know it's a TV trope, but I hate how quickly they've "got a match!" or can follow his car. (It shows something that I still can't remember their names.) I'm hanging on for a few more episodes, but I dunno....

[Dowel Jones]

Mookster, you may end up being our own Designated Survivor.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, mookster said:

That was POTUS's mother, not mother-in-law.

Incorrect. M.I.L.

[thuganomics85]

I guess it was Casual Wednesday at the beginning of the episode, since Aaron was just rocking a polo shirt during all of the meetings, instead of a suit like normal. I guess Kirkman is getting lax on the dress code?  Then again, since I think Aaron is probably one of the reasons everything hasn't fallen apart now, he really should be able to wear whatever the fuck he wants.

The congressmen who got pissed about Kirkman hiding Patrick Lloyd from the public and tried to take advantage of it, felt like a placement for Bowman.  Although, honestly, I don't even remember what ended up happening to that character.

So, Lloyd has been brought down... maybe?  Really can't see any way he'd survive, but this show is crazy enough that he somehow escape and had a dead body hanging around to use as "his remains."  If he truly is dead though, I guess whatever he was uploading will end up coming into play.  Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being that his distant, "good" son ends up being apart of this.

Seth sucking at writing jokes isn't exactly gripping, although it was almost worth it for that scene with Mike.

Glad Reed Diamond is still around.

So, Zoe McLellan has now join that cast as Kendra and will be working as the White House prosecutor (I think?) going forward.  Also, it seems like they're setting something up with her and Aaron, since we're now going with the assumption that Aaron/Emily never happened.  I kind of loved that after all the courts and arguments, the solution ended up being just taking control of the drone away from the army and giving it to the FBI instead.

[wilnil]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

I guess it was Casual Wednesday at the beginning of the episode, since Aaron was just rocking a polo shirt during all of the meetings, instead of a suit like normal. I guess Kirkman is getting lax on the dress code?  Then again, since I think Aaron is probably one of the reasons everything hasn't fallen apart now, he really should be able to wear whatever the fuck he wants.

They said something later in the episode about the briefing with the Congress critters being an impromptu Saturday meeting.

[Happywatcher]

On 10/5/2017 at 0:29 AM, Moose135 said:

And they are making it tough to do, aren't they?

We got more West Wing-lite tonight, with the WH correspondents' dinner where the writer forgets to bring the funny, the posse comitatus issue in dealing with a bad guy - I was hoping that would come up when they were talking about an air strike on the bunker, but I have to wonder about how they dealt with it.  They still used a military drone, so how do they get around the law by having an FBI guy give the order to the drone operator, rather than a military guy.

And speaking of the drone strike, when the first guy (I assume he was Army from his uniform) suggested the bunker buster bomb, and they mentioned an F-16 strike, POTUS (I think) said they didn't want to do that so as to not alarm the public.  I think that big ass explosion would have that effect no matter how it was delivered, and an F-16 could have done it from altitude where no one on the ground would have heard it anyway.

I'm getting close to bailing on this - it had plenty of promise, but it's just not living up to it.

Many years ago President Clinton and and the Attorney General gave orders to the Army to deliver armored fighting vehicles to an extremist religious compound. They then used the AFVs under FBI command to burn the church members to death. This was legal because the FBI agents directly supervised the assault and pulled the triggers.

If you remember this event, it is because a number of the group's children burned to death, and if this was illegal it would have come out due to that.

So, this show is garbage, but that part is legal

[shapeshifter]

On October 4, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Frozendiva said:

The President at least went to the Correspondents Dinner.

Did he ever actually make it?

 

7 hours ago, wilnil said:

They said something later in the episode about the briefing with the Congress critters being an impromptu Saturday meeting.

So I guess "impromptu Saturday meeting" in the script signals the wardrobe folks to press the studly tennis shirt for Adan Canto/Adam.

Was that a designer dress on Italia Ricci/Emily? (The one with bare shoulders?)

[femmefan1946]

I wonder if Seth has gained weight since last season or caught a bad cold.? His face looks bloated & he sounds congested with flem when he speaks.

 

He grew a beard. The makeup people should tell him to let it get more square to fit his face.

 

They made mention at the end that data showed that he was in the middle of a computer transmission when the bomb hit.

What were the exact words? DH sneezed during that sentence and I couldn't rewind.

[Dowel Jones]

The tech guy said "The hard drive was pretty fried, but it looks like he found a way to hack through our firewall.  He was trying to upload something to the cloud before the bomb hit."  Hannah asked "Do you know what it was?"  Tech guy shook his head.

[jhlipton]

Obama (or any President) can order a strike on a foreign country we're at war with.  He can also order a strike with the permission of the foreign country.  There was an American in one of the African or Middle Eastern countries who was killed by a US airstrike.  The usual suspects made a bit of noise about (as they did with everything Obama did) but nothing came of it.

Using the military to kill an American on American soil is where posse comitatus comes into effect.

 

On 10/5/2017 at 3:41 AM, Danielg342 said:

That bugged me too. I would only think the most A-hole of lawyers would defend a guy like that. I mean, can you imagine someone trying to stop the SEAL team from getting Osama bin Laden?

I doubt you'd be practicing law after that.

Lawyers defend scum all the time, because even scum have rights.  And the lawyer was correct -- just because this President is using posse comitatus in a Good Way doesn't mean the next President will.

Edited October 9, 2017 by jhlipton

[femmefan1946]

And sometimes the authorities arrest (or suspect) the wrong scum.

[Danielg342]

On 09/10/2017 at 1:54 AM, jhlipton said:

Obama (or any President) can order a strike on a foreign country we're at war with.  He can also order a strike with the permission of the foreign country.  There was an American in one of the African or Middle Eastern countries who was killed by a US airstrike.  The usual suspects made a bit of noise about (as they did with everything Obama did) but nothing came of it.

Using the military to kill an American on American soil is where posse comitatus comes into effect.

 

Lawyers defend scum all the time, because even scum have rights.  And the lawyer was correct -- just because this President is using posse comitatus in a Good Way doesn't mean the next President will.

I get what you're saying. I still think it was an awfully awkward plot point and if the show wasn't going to make much of the ethical dilemma, then why do it at all?

[catsitter]

I noticed that Hannah introduced her British sidekick as "from Scotland Yard", but that would mean he works for the Metropolitan Police (i.e. the London police force, and it's New Scotland Yard now, anyway) rather than MI6 or even MI5.  I expect Hannah was wrong though.  It was nice to see Meredith Brody from NCIS New Orleans turn up.

[Pindrop]

1 hour ago, catsitter said:

I noticed that Hannah introduced her British sidekick as "from Scotland Yard", but that would mean he works for the Metropolitan Police (i.e. the London police force, and it's New Scotland Yard now, anyway) rather than MI6 or even MI5.  I expect Hannah was wrong though.  It was nice to see Meredith Brody from NCIS New Orleans turn up.

Yeah an odd mistake when a passing knowledge of the Bond franchise would correct this. 

The reason I turned off this episode was the needless exposition regarding the ear identification at the start, which made me assume either the writers are morons, or they think their audience is.

[jhlipton]

5 hours ago, catsitter said:

I noticed that Hannah introduced her British sidekick as "from Scotland Yard", but that would mean he works for the Metropolitan Police (i.e. the London police force, and it's New Scotland Yard now, anyway) rather than MI6 or even MI5.  I expect Hannah was wrong though.  It was nice to see Meredith Brody from NCIS New Orleans turn up.

IIRC, MI5 is domestic (like the FBI) and MI6 is foreign (like the CIA), so he would be MI6.  But then again, you wouldn't have an FBI agent operating in a foreign country.  The op would be handed over to the CIA through the NSA.

[Chas411]

Emily and Aaron were one of the bright spots of season one - I can't believe they've been dropped in favour of Emily/Seth and Aaraon/Hannah.