S03.E12: Brother's Keeper

[raven]

Nick and Jake set out to handle a delicate situation; the Ranch prepares for a threat greater than any they've faced before.

[william0102]

I will come back after talking dead, but Nick?! why would you hit him like that? Also, why not take the freaking missile launcher thing and shoot it the opposite way to try to get the herd to turn? His stupid actions only confirm how dumb that one guy with Ofelia is, saying that Nick would make a good leader because he doesn't want to lead. *rolls eyes*

[thuganomics85]

Jake's death is basically on Nick, right?  I didn't hallucinate it, did I?  Jake was possibly finally going to put Troy down like the rabid animal he has become (or always was), only for Nick to wallop Jake in the head so hard that Jake fell off the ledge.  Yeah, that happened, right?  And it was all for Troy.  At this point, I feel like Nick is more obsessed with him then he ever was with Luciana.  But I'm not sure if this show wants me to brush this off or not.  I hope not and I really want to see what Alicia's reaction would be if she ever finds out.  It's not like I think Jake/Alicia were true love, but I have to imagine she won't be happy hearing he inadvertently killed boyfriend to save the neighborhood psychopath.  Your family really does suck, Alicia.

Other then that, why didn't Alicia and Ofeila automatically have everyone go into the bunker?  It just felt so obvious that there was no way they were going to drive the horde back, so why not wait and see if the horde would go by?  Or why not try and fortify the house?  Nothing about this made any kind of sense.  Apparently nothing gets done unless Walker is around to handhold everyone (can't say the same about Maddie.  She'd have probably made things even worse, although it still would end with her and her children surviving.)

Can't wait to see Maddie, Walker, and Strand's reaction when they see this.  Strand would probably just ask to take them back to the dam.

[heisenberg]

How to save money on zombie make-up?  Just put the camera out of focus!

Edited September 25, 2017 by heisenberg

[MVFrostsMyPie]

On a purely superficial level, I'm bummed they killed Jake. Now I don't even have eye candy to look at and I don't like anyone. 

These people are so fucking slow. I know it's for dramatic effect, but for fuck's sake Alicia, stop standing there watching an RV topple over. 

Also, shouldn't a prepper ranch have more than one way in and out? So you know, they don't get trapped by a dusty horde of walkers?

I wish they would take a road trip up to the Pacific Northwest actually. Canada, maybe. I'd like to see some frozen zombies.

Edited September 25, 2017 by MVFrostsMyPie

[Nashville]

My primary takeaway from this entire defecation demonstration?  I'm gonna miss Coop.  I kinda liked him.

[Artsda]

Awww Jake, :(

[dwarmed]

Alicia to Jake: “You’re the last good man I know.” Take that, Nick. 

[oakville]

5 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

On a purely superficial level, I'm bummed they killed Jake. Now I don't even have eye candy to look at and I don't like anyone. 

These people are so fucking slow. I know it's for dramatic effect, but for fuck's sake Alicia, stop standing there watching an RV topple over. 

Also, shouldn't a prepper ranch have more than one way in and out? So you know, they don't get trapped by a dusty horde of walkers?

I wish they would take a road trip up to the Pacific Northwest actually. Canada, maybe. I'd like to see some frozen zombies.

Why does a prepped ranch have Alicia & Ofelia as leaders? 

There should be several experienced fighters that can handle the hoard.

[Texasmom1970]

3 hours ago, dwarmed said:

Alicia to Jake: “You’re the last good man I know.” Take that, Nick. 

Alicia jinxed him by saying that, of course they just had to kill him off!

[oakville]

The Clarke family is more dangerous than anyone else in the ZA

[JackONeill]

Another thing: They’ve made a point to show the number of guns on the ranch, some of them super-duper. (Sorry, I don’t know my guns.)  Yet when the horde showed up most people only had knives. I mean—what? And Alicia, even though she had a rifle, she seemed to only have one clip on her. What?

And why didn’t they, at least, have a line of their best shooters out front, then they could  fall back to behind the RVs. Then fall back to the bunker. They stood around yakking and not making any plans. Idiots. And like someone said—if they are survivalists, they sure didn’t seem to have any contingency plans.

And when Walker’s people were first introduced they had this spiritual, other-worldly “we walk with the wind”kind of thing. They seemed to be a people to be feared. Yet, when the walkers show up, they crumple like a pair of cheap socks.

and like so many people have said, I am so sick and tired of how, both on this show and the mother ship, when we (Maddie’s group or Rick’s group) show up, it means the end of whatever was once there. Meanwhile, we go traipsing off as if nothing happened.

[nodorothyparker]

Part of the problem for me is realizing that I've zoned out through so much of what we've seen that I can't always remember what they've shown us and can't keep half of that straight.  I want to say that in all of Jeremiah's meandering exposition to various members of the Clark family we learned that for all their end of days stockpiling, there had only been a handful of serious preppers there to start the place and the rest of the people we've seen were mostly johnny come latelys who later wandered in from wherever.  But given that they're in a show with "Dead" in the title where that's supposed to be an ongoing concern, it still seems like they've been there long enough they should have had some notion of how they wanted to play it when the inevitable finally happened.  They have this huge underground weapons locker, but half the people behind the RV line had weapons like tire irons, axes, bats, and at least a shovel or two.  So who had all the weapons they've been arguing over the last few episodes?  Or are they saving them for an extra special occasion?

I don't know which was unintentionally funnier, anyone thinking Nick should be a leader because he doesn't want to be one, or Nick basically being responsible for getting Jake killed and all the ensuing carnage at the ranch because he thought he was the nutcase whisperer continually trying to save and reason with Troy.  In his own way, he's every bit as bad as Madison.

[nodorothyparker]

Could have been.  Could have been anybody.  It must have saved the show a ton of cash on makeup and prosthetics and special effects for the walkers to appear first mostly as a dust cloud and then to shoot so much of them out of focus.  At least it's consistent with this show being the lower rent cousin to the mother ship, which was also clearly having problems figuring out where to spend money on effects last season.

[rhondas ghost]

This show is beyond stupid. Carol would have had Troy look at the flowers weeks ago.

I am now hate watching until I can't take anymore.

[Rockfish]

I liked how considerate the horde was when they moseyed over to the ranch--they stayed completely off the road, which allowed Nick and the brothers (or, just Troy at the point? Idk, I barely pay attention to this show) to drive safely by.

Question for Alecia and others: why create a barrier of RVs if you're just going to stand there yakking? You know they can hear you, right? Drives me nuts when writers can't figure out a way to get to a specific script point--RV being pushed over, ranch being infiltrated--in a somewhat sensical way.

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Part of the problem for me is realizing that I've zoned out through so much of what we've seen that I can't always remember what they've shown us and can't keep half of that straight.  I want to say that in all of Jeremiah's meandering exposition to various members of the Clark family we learned that for all their end of days stockpiling, there had only been a handful of serious preppers there to start the place and the rest of the people we've seen were mostly johnny come latelys who later wandered in from wherever.

I believe you're correct.  I seem to recall Jeremiah Otto telling Madison there were only something like 4 or 6 families actually living on the ranch pre-ZA.  The rest were subscribers to his survivalist DVD series who packed up and skedaddled to the ranch the moment news reports of the ZA spread started making the airwaves - most of them without having actually seen a single walker.

 

Quote

 They have this huge underground weapons locker, but half the people behind the RV line had weapons like tire irons, axes, bats, and at least a shovel or two.  So who had all the weapons they've been arguing over the last few episodes?  Or are they saving them for an extra special occasion?

I believe the initial plan was:

1. The RV "wall" would divert the vast majority of the horde mass away from the camp proper.
2. The line of survivors behind the RVs were there for two primary reasons; to (a) help brace the RVs against being tipped, and (b) "clean up" any walkers who managed to slip through the cracks.
3. Regarding 2b: hand weapons were being used instead of firearms for the simple reason excessive noise would draw the walkers to the sound and defeat the core plan of diverting the walkers away from the camp.

So the use of melee weapons over firearms didn't bother me overmuch.  With one significant exception (which I'll explain in a moment) their plan wasn't necessarily unsound; its primary weakness was the ranch occupants simply had no real comprehension of the size of the horde, or the amount of simple inertial force it could bring to bear against any kind of barricade.

 

What did bother me more than anything else, though, was their entire initial defense concept was brainless-fucked from the very onset for one very simple reason:

Why the hell didn't they park the RVs right up beside the fence and gate???

This miscalculation was bone-stick stupid for multiple reasons.  The RVs would have helped bolster and support the gate - keeping it from breaking in the first place, and (hopefully, anyway) keeping the walkers from getting inside the perimeter fence in the first place.  By abandoning any defense of the gate and positioning the RV wall several feet within the fence line, what the hell were they trying to accomplish?  

Even if the RV wall had held, all the ranchers were accomplishing was redirecting a few thousand brain-munchers to a different location within the fence.  What was the hope here - the walkers, once diverted, would simply keep walking until they ran into the fence on the far side of the ranch, bust through THAT fence, and continue on their merry way?

Dumbass.

[Gobi]

Don't forget that Nick ensured Jake's death by asking Troy how long it took for the infection to spread, instead of JUST CUTTING OFF HIS ARM IMMEDIATELY!

[nitrofishblue]

I have to admit that this was the first episode I have watched t h his sesson. I DVRed them but didn't watch. After making it through this one was a chore. The writing has not improved at all. Even though i didn't watch the first three, I didn't miss a beat with this soap opera. As they say more things change the more they stay the same.

[Madding crowd]

I liked Jake too and didn't think he did anything to warrant being called soft. Not everyone has to be nuts or a killer and he was ready to kill when he had to. I cannot stand the idea that Madison and her offspring will be automatically worshiped as almighty leader for no reason. Jake was trying to think ahead and was more interested in surviving and building a life than fighting a useless fight. I can't stand Nick!

[Nashville]

41 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I am just confused on this whole thing.

Did Jake die from blood loss and then turn.

Or.

Was he infected from the bite and then turn.

Yes.  ;)

• Jake's immediate COD was hypovolemic shock (loss of blood).  Nick whacked off Jake's arm with the expectation Jake could be transported back to the ranch in good enough time for the ranch's medical folks to successfully address the amputation.  They did make it back to ranch in time, only to find it already overrun by the infected horde- and without access to medical care, Jake bled out and died.
• Was infection from the bite an additional contributing factor?  Without treatment for the amputation, no way of knowing.  We do know EVERYBODY is already infected with the Z virus, though, so yeah - as soon as Jake died, he was 100% going to turn.

 

41 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Regardless, Nick waited too long to do anything to save Jake.

Probably.

[diebartdie]

On 9/25/2017 at 0:33 AM, heisenberg said:

How to save money on zombie make-up?  Just put the camera out of focus!

 

On 9/25/2017 at 9:44 AM, nodorothyparker said:

Could have been.  Could have been anybody.  It must have saved the show a ton of cash on makeup and prosthetics and special effects for the walkers to appear first mostly as a dust cloud and then to shoot so much of them out of focus.  At least it's consistent with this show being the lower rent cousin to the mother ship, which was also clearly having problems figuring out where to spend money on effects last season.

That pissed me off to no end! They FINALLY have the walkers as a credible threat and then......show a long, long, looooong scene focusing on rusty barbed wire. Man eff you show.

[oakville]

17 hours ago, Sonoma said:

I just cannot with Nick anymore and will stop watching until he is off the canvas. I want both him and Madison gone but I'll take her idiot son being killed off. Until then, I'm out. Not even the wonderful Ruben Blades can keep me watching right now.

Prick is THE biggest overinflated asshole of either of these franchises, and that is saying a lot. I liked Jake and hated seeing him killed off but the fact that Nick is the one who caused it, for idiotic reasons, is what made it maddening for me. And never mind the fact they were traipsing all over Mexico most of last season trying to find his stank ass. I will blame Travis's death on that too.

Enough already! Are we really supposed to look at Nick as a viable leading man? My only hope is that Alicia be the one to take him out. I'll also take Daniel or Strand doing the deed. Hell, even Troy. He has an owesy seeing Nick has killed his father and brother.

The show would be much better without Nick & Madison. They both create havoc & get people killed for no good reason.

I thought this show would be better because I would have liked to see how survivorlists deal with a horde of Walkers.

There are enough other characters on the show that you could focus on like Alicia & Ophelia, Strand & Daniel etc.

[kj4ever]

So I wasn't going to watch this season at all then I got sick this weekend and was completely bored.  It took about 8 hours to get through the 3 hours of teevee but I did it.

Something has went horribly awry when the liberal union member is rooting for the racist psycho to kill all the people on the ranch.  Seriously.

[JackONeill]

2 hours ago, oakville said:

The show would be much better without Nick & Madison. They both create havoc & get people killed for no good reason.

I thought this show would be better because I would have liked to see how survivorlists deal with a horde of Walkers.

There are enough other characters on the show that you could focus on like Alicia & Ophelia, Strand & Daniel etc.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but both Nick and Maddison are characters created by the writers and producers. Nick's and Madison's actions are seemingly what TPTB want. And that scares me. Look, I guess we don't need a true hero in every show on TV, a la Han Solo or Captain Kirk (though it would be kinda cool to see how they act with a swarm coming at them). The thing is TPTB want flawed (and I mean, seriously flawed) heroes. So, we're stuck with what we have, I'm afraid.

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

If Jake was going toes up due to blood loss and not the infection, I don't understand why they didn't apply a tourniquet before transporting him.  A belt would have done it.  If they didn't have a belt, they could have improvised and come up with something else.  There are plenty of things they could have used.

Nick and Troy did apply a tourniquet - or rather they must have, otherwise Jake would have been dead long before they made it back to the ranch. 

The amputation completely severed the brachial artery.

If the artery were left to free-flow without a tourniquet, Jake would have already bled out before the truck hit second gear - 2 or 3 minutes tops.

Thing is, though, even a tourniquet isn't going to stop 100% of the bleeding; even if properly applied, there will still be some blood loss.  If the tourniquet is down so tight as to cut off 100% of seepage, it's going to crush and kill nerves and tissue under and below the tourniquet - the complications from which would be just as bad (and as lethal) as the blood loss, if not as quick.

[FishyJoe]

The apocalypse is coming, so we'll live in tents and RVs, because you know that will protect you from the worst calamities. We'll choose the one spot that has no water and fight to the death for that spot. Our idea of a secure perimeter is a chain link fence and barb wire, because it works so great for prison. Great plan preppers!

[ShellsandCheese]

Right! I don't understand how stupid these characters are. We would be this stupid in real life? Find a fucking building! Concrete, brick, wood, plaster...something. On what planet is it smart to camp outdoors during a ZA. I just don't get it. The hotel was smart, until Madison screwed that up. Their neighborhood in season one was smart, until Madison and team screwed that up. 

I don't understand why they cannot find a small gated apartment complex, or small office building.....anything would be better than the great outdoors. Anything. They are in California, find a small base, go to the coast and find something that backs up to the water so you cannot be surrounded all sides. Anything. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by ShellsandCheese

[raven]

Jake was kind of a non-entity to me so I'm not sad he's gone.  I felt worse for the big bald guy (Coop?) that Alicia had to shoot while a bunch of zombies were hanging off of him. 

I liked Alicia calling Nick out on his BS about not killing Troy, not because Nick sort of felt bad for killing Otto, but because Nick sees himself in Troy.

Troy should be killed but he's an interesting character because I'm not quite sure what he's going to do (other than screw things up).  Maybe Nick will follow him further down that path.  I think the actors playing Nick and Troy do pretty well with what they have to work with, which isn't always much, though I found them both watchable this week.  I also liked Alicia and Ofelia being in charge.

On 9/25/2017 at 5:21 AM, dwarmed said:

Alicia to Jake: “You’re the last good man I know.” Take that, Nick. 

LOL yeah, certainly not Nick.  I figured she was thinking of Travis.

I didn't have any real issues with the plan to divert the walkers.  The RVs were already well inside the fence and my impression was it would have taken longer to get them to the gate and fence and line them up and possibly attract more zombie attention considering how close they were; it was quicker to line them up where they were and hope for the best.  If the plan had worked and they were diverted out, the fence can be repaired.  Both Alicia and Crazy Dog commented that it wasn't the greatest plan but it was all they had to work with.  I don't think anyone has seen a group this large before.

The ranch looks like a hellhole to me - hot, dirty, too many people - but I can understand that people get settled, feel safe or whatever.  Still, isn't anyone curious about what's going on in the world?  Yeah, Troy killed the family who tried to leave but I would still want to GTFO myself.   The show may be trying to go for the characters feeling trapped or stuck but with those wide open spaces, I don't see it.  Yet no one has really tried to make their situation better.  It's still early days in the ZA, which brings me back to don't people want to know what's going on?

[oakville]

On 9/26/2017 at 3:48 PM, JackONeill said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, but both Nick and Maddison are characters created by the writers and producers. Nick's and Madison's actions are seemingly what TPTB want. And that scares me. Look, I guess we don't need a true hero in every show on TV, a la Han Solo or Captain Kirk (though it would be kinda cool to see how they act with a swarm coming at them). The thing is TPTB want flawed (and I mean, seriously flawed) heroes. So, we're stuck with what we have, I'm afraid.

When the show started, Nick was a drug addict who was nearly attacked by a walker in a heroine den.

Madison was a high school guidance councillor.

I find it highly unlikely that a reckless guy like Nick would survive the ZA . He should have been killed on numerous occasions. He has let Troy off the hook several times when he knows that he is a nutjob.

Madison should be more emphatic since she is a guidance counselor, but she is ruthless & destroys every community that she comes into contact with.

This group has had many chances to live in peaceful & safe communities, yet they always manage to destroy everything.

How is that possible?

This is early in the ZA, when there should be more sane people around & they haven't become nuts like the "Governor" .

22 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Right! I don't understand how stupid these characters are. We would be this stupid in real life? Find a fucking building! Concrete, brick, wood, plaster...something. On what planet is it smart to camp outdoors during a ZA. I just don't get it. The hotel was smart, until Madison screwed that up. Their neighborhood in season one was smart, until Madison and team screwed that up. 

I don't understand why they cannot find a small gated apartment complex, or small office building.....anything would be better than the great outdoors. Anything. They are in California, find a small base, go to the coast and find something that backs up to the water so you cannot be surrounded all sides. Anything. 

Agreed!. I do think that this show did have water walking zombies that came from the beach, so in theory they could attack the lower floor of the hotel.

[Red Bridey]

I don't know how many times I shouted, "Shoot him! Shoot him goddamit!"  Nick is an asshole and I hate him, I hate Troy and I HATE Madison.

[BasilSeal]

On 26/09/2017 at 8:48 PM, JackONeill said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, but both Nick and Maddison are characters created by the writers and producers. Nick's and Madison's actions are seemingly what TPTB want. And that scares me. Look, I guess we don't need a true hero in every show on TV, a la Han Solo or Captain Kirk (though it would be kinda cool to see how they act with a swarm coming at them). The thing is TPTB want flawed (and I mean, seriously flawed) heroes. So, we're stuck with what we have, I'm afraid.

There can't really be a 'true hero' because the true hero would need to save everyone, and by the very nature of the zombie apocalypse, that's just not possible. The key theme of the show is what it costs the character to survive when they do so at the expense of others. The characters are forced to make choices  in order to ensure their own survival that impact negatively on others. It's significant that the writers have included two characters (Strand and Salazar), who have already made the choice to survive at the expense of others in the old world. Also that two character who have chosen largely not to compromise their morality, (Travis and Jake) have both fallen by the wayside. (Alicia's remark that Jake was "the last good man I know" highlighted this and simultaneously sealed poor old Jake's fate)

Although nick and Maddison step over the line and compromise their morality, they're not psychopaths, and hence they carry the burden of what they've done, Nick urges Jake not to kill his brother because he knows what cost such an action comes at. It would have been easy for the writers to have simply made Nick a ShutUpCarl mark 2 and continued his annoying junkie arsehole character into the apocalypse, but instead it appears that though nick was lost in the old world, he fits right in to this one, indeed has has an affinity for it. Nick is concerned that this affinity makes him like Troy, a fear he articulates to Alicia in this episode. his somewhat curious mission to save Troy is based on his fear that Troy is another version of him, if Troy can be saved, then so can Nick. (maybe Maddison also sees the comparison, hence her decision not to shoot Troy when she had the chance and thus save everyone a load of trouble)

What i think will happen now, is that Nick will find a way to draw the walkers away from the ranch, if Troy could lead them to the ranch with a few gun shots, surely once they've finished devouring the remainder of the cows (poor cows), then all Nick needs to do is drive down in the pickup with one of Troy's death metal tracks playing at full bore on the stereo and they'll all turn round and follow the truck. This will make it seem that Troy has in fact saved the ranch after trying to warn them, and he will thus be rehabilitated in the eyes of the ranch people, and Nick will neglect to mention the truth.

A couple of general points about the episode, i liked the picture at the outpost which said 'The Lord help those that help themselves' That missing letter changing the meaning somewhat. I was also disappointed they killed Coop off, he was a cool character and it would have been good to see him bonding with Mad Dog over some walker sticking.

[Jel]

How many weeks has it taken the Clark family to completely kill off Troy's family? This has got to be a new record for total family annihilation. 

[BasilSeal]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

How many weeks has it taken the Clark family to completely kill off Troy's family? This has got to be a new record for total family annihilation. 

Er, Troy's still alive, so they haven't killed of his entire family, well not yet anyway.

[Jel]

1 hour ago, BasilSeal said:

Er, Troy's still alive, so they haven't killed of his entire family, well not yet anyway.

Whoops, must have dozed off at the end of the episode. My bad on the premature family annihilation accusation alert. I give it three more weeks.

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

Er, Troy's still alive, so they haven't killed of his entire family, well not yet anyway.

Well from Troy's perspective, even though he's still alive, the rest of his family is annihilated.

[FishyJoe]

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Well from Troy's perspective, even though he's still alive, the rest of his family is annihilated.

Maybe not. Remember that little talk Madison had with Alicia? I don't discount the possibility of a Jake Jr. For the baby's sake, someone needs to kill off Madison and Nick.

[rmontro]

Troy should have been killed several episodes ago, if not before.  So Nick (accidentally) kills Jake instead.  

Jake was one of the very few likable characters on this show, so naturally they kill him off. 

Alicia is the only one of the Clarks I can stand.  Kill the rest of them off and make her the lead. 

[Nashville]

18 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

i liked the picture at the outpost which said 'The Lord help those that help themselves' That missing letter changing the meaning somewhat.

I know, right?  That missing 's' changes the entire meaning, from a folksy homily to a veiled threat.  I rather enjoyed that.  :)

[BasilSeal]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

I know, right?  That missing 's' changes the entire meaning, from a folksy homily to a veiled threat.  I rather enjoyed that.  :)

Yes, i think it's also a comment on what Jake is intending to do when he takes the weapon hidden behind it.

[piequinn35]

Show, why do you always kill Alicia's boyfriend?

[Gobi]

3 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Show, why do you always kill Alicia's boyfriend?

Because her true love is Nick.

[piequinn35]

There's no incest in this show lol.

[Ohwell]

35 minutes ago, Gobi said:

4 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Show, why do you always kill Alicia's boyfriend?

Because her true love is Nick.

But Nick's true love is Troy.  

[piequinn35]

^I agree ?

[SnarkyTart]

10 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Show, why do you always kill Alicia's boyfriend?

 

6 hours ago, Gobi said:

Because her true love is Nick.

 

5 hours ago, Ohwell said:

But Nick's true love is Troy.  

But Troy's true love is Madison

Edited September 30, 2017 by SnarkyTart

[piequinn35]

But Madison's true love is Victor

[Gobi]

15 minutes ago, piequinn35 said:

But Madison's true love is Victor

But Victor's true love is Daniel.

[SnarkyTart]

3 hours ago, Gobi said:

But Victor's true love is Daniel.

But Victor's true love is Walker and Daniel (menage a trois?)

And Walker's true love is Ofelia

[Ohwell]

28 minutes ago, SnarkyTart said:

And Walker's true love is Ofelia

And Ofelia's true love is...Alicia.