S07.E01: Election Night

[AmandaPanda]

As a reminder, keep talk centered on what happened in the show, not what happened in the actual election. Talking about the reveal that Ally was a Stein voter, totally okay. Talking about your friends who were Stein voters or Hillary voters or Trump voters, not so much. This season is going to have a lot of political content in it, so please keep it focused on the show.

[Straycat80]

I don't know what to think of this one yet. Sarah Paulsen screaming and freaking out for an hour got on my last nerve. I expected some political stuff, there was more than I expected which was not good. 

I'm not normally afraid of clowns but these were more like demons from hell. I'll give this a couple more episodes to decide if I'm in for the whole season. 

[For Cereals]

15 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I may have the slightest case of trypophobia...I mean, coral doesn't bother me, or crumpets, but it's all those photoshopped lotus pods on people's faces and tongues that freak me right out. But don't they freak everybody out?

So much this!  There was that thing a few years ago that Snopes debunked about buying bras without washing them and then a superimposed lotus on a breast.  Grossed me out for months!  Getting itchy thinking about it...

I don't know if I can do a whole season of that.  Plus the "is she or isn't she really crazy" part.  Clowns don't bother me either except when they are killing people.

It would be interesting if this episode was the only one that showed any election footage. (That's not political commentary, just commentary on the show.)

[HollyG]

21 hours ago, Snookums said:

Call outs to other shows: the husband in the murdered next door couple/head of the town council was Cho on The Mentalist: that drawing of a smiley face in blood had to be a shout out! I was really happy to see him and pissed that he was killed so early. 

I was expecting Red John to show up in a clown suit. I miss Tim Kang and I'm sorry he was killed off so soon in the season. He was my favorite on the Mentalist.

[Bruinsfan]

7 hours ago, Anela said:

Ally was screaming, "how could Nate Silver be so wrong?!" That's why I didn't depend on the polls. I came across too many people who startled me by coming out in support of the nightmare.

As I recall Silver was saying things were too close to call as the election drew near, and took a lot of flack for not declaring Clinton the inevitable winner in advance. So is Ally supposed to have just assumed that 538.com was echoing her assumptions as a sign of her privilege and arrogance, or did Murphy not bother to do any research and just make that assumption himself?

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I suspect in most cases "too political" will be code for "too anti-Trump." I can definitely see how the show would put off right-wingers.

Die-hard Lefty here and it's definitely wearing out my tolerance for politics in entertainment at a rapid pace as well even if viewer sympathies are supposed to be with the liberal gay characters. I think preachy caricatures get old real fast whether or not you agree with their basic worldview. I suspect this season may lose me about three episodes in like last year's did.

[Anela]

7 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

As I recall Silver was saying things were too close to call as the election drew near, and took a lot of flack for not declaring Clinton the inevitable winner in advance. So is Ally supposed to have just assumed that 538.com was echoing her assumptions as a sign of her privilege and arrogance, or did Murphy not bother to do any research and just make that assumption himself?

Die-hard Lefty here and it's definitely wearing out my tolerance for politics in entertainment at a rapid pace as well even if viewer sympathies are supposed to be with the liberal gay characters. I think preachy caricatures get old real fast whether or not you agree with their basic worldview. I suspect this season may lose me about three episodes in like last year's did.

I don't know. Ally mentioned someone else, too, but I can't remember the name. 

I'm a die-hard lefty, and I found it amusing. The trigger warning comment, and Ally going on about how she was okay when Obama was president. 

Her little boy seeing the clowns, and the murders, shows that she isn't always imagining things. That poor kid. Although I can't see anyone giving a little kid a comic like that. I wonder how he got it. 

[Utpe]

47 minutes ago, HollyG said:

I was expecting Red John to show up in a clown suit. I miss Tim Kang and I'm sorry he was killed off so soon in the season. He was my favorite on the Mentalist.

LOL, I kept thinking to myself, "Oh crap, Red John's still alive!  He must've faked his death, and Cho was next on his list of people left to torment.  Where's Patrick Jane when you need him?"

I did get a bit of The Mentalist vibe from Kang's character, and the red face that was painted on the door.  Nice touch.

[phoenix780]

I like the clowns (this show is all about that one, great costume a year), I like the actress from Scream Queens, I'm fine watching Sarah Paulson run around screaming, but I can't do Trump in my entertainment, and I think I'm bitter that a show that's usually a fun escape, coming off a season I really enjoyed, has this off-putting element. There aren't many shows left that get my full attention, I don't want to let it go, not for this. Here's hoping it's just a gimmick. 

[DiabLOL]

Being a lesbian with a fear of holes has got to be a challenge. No wonder she's sobbing all the time.

I can't stand Ivy already. I'd enjoy it if the theories about her gas lighting Ally came true.

The only thing that could drive me away is too much Joker Lite. I'm over his schtick already. 

The babysitter didn't make sense to me. Why would they hire this weirdo and especially after what happened with the murder. I'm disappointed they got rid of that couple and in the very firs ep no less. They seemed interesting and very watchable.

Anyway, I'm down to clown. 

Hope this series doesn't nosedive the way the others have for me.

Edited September 7, 2017 by DiabLOL

[Pixel]

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Anyone else notice the promo spot for Baskets airing during this episode? That had to be on purpose. (It's a show about clowns, FYI, in case you don't know.)

I suspect in most cases "too political" will be code for "too anti-Trump." I can definitely see how the show would put off right-wingers. I'm also aware there's going to be an inherent danger in these forums becoming politicized. Prepare to be warned.

Although I know  Ryan Murphy is a blatant liberal, I think he was somewhat fair in showing the two extremes. On the right, we've got the Trump supporter who is so off the wall he's a charicature of a Trump supporter.   Then, on the left, we have Sarah Paulson in inconsolable hysterics, which although I saw a few things in her reaction that were similar to my own (I only trust Rachel Maddow! How could Nate Silver be so wrong? Yeah, I might have teared up and said those same things), I can acknowledge that she's representative of the extreme left reaction.  So, I felt like Murphy was as fair as could be expected in those depictions. 

Murphy has also said the season is not about the election, that the first episode uses the events of the election as a jumping off point, so I think it will get a lot less political from here out. Then again, as much as I love AHS and have watched every season, I find that about mid-season they tend to lose the storyline and go off the rails. We'll see.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Pixel

[Boilergal]

20 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Also, it didn't really make sense when it turned out she voted for Jill Stein since she was weeping and wailing at the election results. People who voted for Jill Stein knew she had no chance of winning and didn't really care who won, hence their throw-away votes.

 

The polls were saying that Hillary was going to win, without question.   I believe some people voted Jill Stein to make a statement - not really believing that she would win.

I'm not a big fan of clowns - wondered how many viewers Noped on the first episode because of the clowns.    I won't, I love this show - most seasons.

I thought it was a good first episode and looking forward to seeing where it goes - hopefully a little less focus on Ally.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Boilergal

[asabovesobelow]

Definitely didn't need to relive THAT night. I had a pit in my stomach after the opening scenes for the wrong reasons.

I do think centering the season around someone's anxieties is actually really freaking scary. The scene in the supermarket (before the clowns, oddly enough) was terrifying. The creak of the cart, the falling can, the isolation in a place that's usually teeming with people. Could almost feel heart race and the panic set in. Good stuff.

[HollyG]

That was definitely Twisty at the beginning terrorizing the picnickers and was played by the same actor. Did he escape from the top hat ghost? Or I’m wondering if he’s a tulpa brought about by the clown cult’s collective thoughts. If so, they might not even know he’s out there. He’s obviously become some sort of urban legend or cult hero if he’s featured in a comic book.

 

According to Ryan Murphy, this season is going to be more connected to the previous seasons. Maybe Ally is related to someone from Freak Show. The twins were pregnant with Jimmy’s baby. Maybe she’s their granddaughter. The cult knew about her clown fears somehow. Somebody is in on it… Ivy or someone else who knows her history. And her history would be easier to find out about than her voting record. I believe the clowns that Ally is seeing are real. Her son is seeing the same ones. And how the hell are they getting out of rooms so quickly without Ivy seeing them. And the food that was under the cloche changed from the English muffin to the fancy dish Ivy fixed. If Ivy isn’t in on the gas lighting, then it’s someone very close to Ally.

Edited September 7, 2017 by HollyG

[gaPeach]

I like to watch TV or movies to get away from the stress of real life, so I am disappointed that this story is based on current politics.  Why does everything have to be political?  What happened to just good scary stories?  What  a waste of some really spooky, crazy, terrifying Clowns.  

I am going to pass on this season.  For now anyway.

[Pixel]

52 minutes ago, HollyG said:

That was definitely Twisty at the beginning terrorizing the picnickers and was played by the same actor. Did he escape from the top hat ghost? Or I’m wondering if he’s a tulpa brought about by the clown cult’s collective thoughts. If so, they might not even know he’s out there. He’s obviously become some sort of urban legend or cult hero if he’s featured in a comic book.

I believe that was meant to be Oz imagining it as he read the Twisty comic book.

[luna1122]

I think the election was a springboard for the rest of the series, I don't actually think the rest of the season is as specifically political.

Yes, Oz was reading the graphic novel/comic about Twisty. He's become the stuff of urban legends, or true ones, and spawned a new generation of comic book reading fans, and that's what we were seeing. Altho, I still wouldn't be surprised to see him actually pop up. You just never know, in Ryan's worlds.

Edited September 7, 2017 by luna1122

[Miss Bones]

15 hours ago, Anela said:

I can't believe I didn't get the Cheetos thing! I didn't even know what he'd put in the blender, and painted on his face and hair. 

 

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 11:55 PM, Valny said:

When Kai put the Cheetos in the blender, I didn't know what the hell he was up to, and when you see the orange all over his face, it actually took me a few seconds to know what he was doing. I was like..huh... oh... oh! I get it.  Ha!

 

Are these posters just saying that they did not realize it was the Cheetos residue on his face?  ...Or is there some other significance to the Cheetos face that I am missing?

 

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

EDIT:  http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/ahs-cult-cheetos-trump-impression.html

 

Okay, apparently, he was supposed to be "impersonating" Trump.  I didn't get that.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Missbones

[RedMal]

I don't know why I keep coming back every year when the show premieres. Murder house is the only one, that I watched all the way through, but didn't find it that good. The later seasons I've watched few episodes before dropping out, Hotel being an exception, I stopped it halfway through the pilot. It seemed to got to the point, where the show is only for shock value. But I guess I want to give Ryan Murphy chances, since Popular was/is so damn good.

But I think this season could be the most promising one yet. I was actually invested on the story. Sure, there were some things that I don't agree with, but most of it was pretty good and I will be watching next episode.

I see people talking about that Twisty scene. I was sure it was just a "clip" from the comic book.

[ShadowHunter]

43 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I think the election was a springboard for the rest of the series, I don't actually think the rest of the season is as specifically political.

Yes, Oz was reading the graphic novel/comic. He's become the stuff of urban legends, or true ones, and spawned a new generation of comic book reading fans, and that's what we were seeing. Altho, I still wouldn't be surprised to see him actually pop up. You just never know, in Ryan's worlds.

Its not. Ryan has confirmed in many interviews the season is about Kai and his cult. It's about Cults in general I mean Evan is going to play Charles Manson that has nothing to do with the Election.

[Miss Bones]

http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/ahs-cult-cheetos-trump-impression.html

 

Okay, apparently, he was supposed to be "impersonating" Trump.  I didn't get that.

[AllyS]

8 minutes ago, Missbones said:

 

 

Are these posters just saying that they did not realize it was the Cheetos residue on his face?  ...Or is there some other significance to the Cheetos face that I am missing?

Cheetos are orange and so is tRump's skin.

[Bruinsfan]

I've loved watching Evan Peters' performances the last couple of seasons, but if his Kai is going to be the central figure of this one it's going to be like nails on a chalkboard to me.

[HollyG]

1 hour ago, Pixel said:

I believe that was meant to be Oz imagining it as he read the Twisty comic book.

You are probably right.

[Snookums]

Quote

I do think centering the season around someone's anxieties is actually really freaking scary. The scene in the supermarket (before the clowns, oddly enough) was terrifying. The creak of the cart, the falling can, the isolation in a place that's usually teeming with people. Could almost feel heart race and the panic set in. Good stuff

That's something they did really well and that I hope the show doesn't piss away, as is its wont with good ideas; that fear is so isolating because it's impossible to describe without sounding silly. That's triply true of phobias--it just seems so dumb to be afraid, to the point of being disabled, by clowns or grass or holes or puppies or whatever the trigger is. No matter how sympathetic people try to be eventually they get fed up and yell "THIS IS RIDICULOUS!" and you're more alone then ever.

I know Paulsen's weep and wail routine can be grating, but she's really, really good at it, and that's part of the point--how exhausting it is to be around somebody with an extreme emotional problem, and no matter how much you love them they seem to be nothing more than self-indulgent drama queens who want all the oxygen and attention for themselves. And they know how they're coming across, and they do that trembling-lip apology and shaky smile and both of you pretend this was a one-off, until the next time...

[iMonrey]

Quote

The babysitter didn't make sense to me. Why would they hire this weirdo and especially after what happened with the murder. 

Actually she was saying all the things they wanted to hear in the interview . . . implying she was a fellow lesbian, left college to support the Clinton campaign, etc. etc. The murders across the street did not happen until after they hired her, so I'm not sure what you mean by "especially after what happened with the murder." And she did a good job covering up what she'd done with Oz by saying he was having night terrors. I think she passed herself off as being a kindred soul - we just happen to have a different perspective because we know she is somehow involved in Kai. She didn't present as crazy to Ally and Ivy.

[Last Time Lord]

I'm just now realizing that the killed neighbor was the city councilman(?) that spoke out against Kai's position when he spoke over that measure. 

Is Kai supposed to have already been amassing his cult, and realize the election means he can go public, with it?

[Chaos Theory]

2 hours ago, RedMal said:

 

I see people talking about that Twisty scene. I was sure it was just a "clip" from the comic book.

Although these are all individual stories they all take place in the same universe (more or less). It's one of the things you just have to accept and go with.  Charcters in one show make a cameo in another.  It's kinda fun.  Twisty was a character in Freak Show.  

[mamadrama]

3 hours ago, Missbones said:

 

 

Are these posters just saying that they did not realize it was the Cheetos residue on his face?  ...Or is there some other significance to the Cheetos face that I am missing?

 

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

EDIT:  http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/ahs-cult-cheetos-trump-impression.html

 

Okay, apparently, he was supposed to be "impersonating" Trump.  I didn't get that.

As others have explained, it was meant to be a reference to the shade of Trump's skin. There are some people in social media who often refer to him as that particular kind of junk food, too. 

[RedMal]

42 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Although these are all individual stories they all take place in the same universe (more or less). It's one of the things you just have to accept and go with.  Charcters in one show make a cameo in another.  It's kinda fun.  Twisty was a character in Freak Show.  

Yeah, but I meant that that particular scene most likely wasn't real. I don't think Twisty has a role in this season.

[Snookums]

What gets me about Oz reading that comic wasn't just the horrible violence but the blatant, graphic sex. I know Ally's position is a bare breast or penis never hurt anyone, but it just struck me as way too Adult Altogether for a seven/eight year old to be reading.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

The babysitter didn't make sense to me. Why would they hire this weirdo and especially after what happened with the murder. I'm disappointed they got rid of that couple and in the very firs ep no less. They seemed interesting and very watchable.

I don't think she did/said anything weird in the interview though (did she? I don't think I noticed if she did), so they wouldn't have picked up on anything.

Edited September 7, 2017 by TattleTeeny
OOOPS! Someone faster already addressed this, complete with details! Sorry!

[Anela]

43 minutes ago, Snookums said:

What gets me about Oz reading that comic wasn't just the horrible violence but the blatant, graphic sex. I know Ally's position is a bare breast or penis never hurt anyone, but it just struck me as way too Adult Altogether for a seven/eight year old to be reading.

That was part of what I was referring to, when I mentioned it. 

[ShadowHunter]

On 9/6/2017 at 3:28 AM, Snookums said:

Urrrrrgh.  Man, for a show that's supposed to be satirical the election cut way too close to the bone. I was one of the ones weeping and refusing to eat the day after so none of that was exaggerated for me.

Once again Evan Peters knocks it out of the park; he is an excellent cult leader, even more than a serial killer! His ability to switch between "crazy" provocation (the Mexican workers), random street harassment that a middle class lesbian couple might have read about but not experienced (Ally and Ivy) and his "superficially interesting until he starts to rant" presentation at the town meeting shows that he knows exactly what kind of fear to generate with what kind of person.  His mesmerizing of Winter may be one on one because he needs a loyal soldier but he clearly has other toys in his box to play with. I was wondering if he was wearing special contacts to make his eyes so flat and dead, like a shark's. 

Call outs to other shows: the husband in the murdered next door couple/head of the town council was Cho on The Mentalist: that drawing of a smiley face in blood had to be a shout out! I was really happy to see him and pissed that he was killed so early. 

Evan peters guest starred on The Mentalist once.  

I knew he was a goner the second he annoyed Kai. More to the point that he didn't agree with him.

 

Dear Ally, when you are sitting in a car fearing for your life please drive away. Call 911 first don't sit and ask Ivy what to do lol.

[islandgal140]

Only episode one and I feel like this is the 1st time the show has truly lived up to its title: American Horror Story.  Part of me is like too soon because I really do find the election night stuff triggering and surreal even though its been almost 10 months and really, I watch tv to get away from the ever burning tire fire that is American politics today. The other part is intrigued by Ryan's take on it and where this will go.

I swear there is a drama teacher in Evans Peter's past that told him he will do well with crazy and damn was he/she right! I do have a slight issue with his styling though. He doesn't need the long purple hair and weird styling. I think he would be even scarier if he looked like an average white preppy guy with short hair, in glasses wearing a white shirt and khakis. Isn't that what was so shocking about his supporters and the MAGA movement in general? That they weren't toothless hick trailer trash?

I think I inherited a gene that makes me immune to clowns because I just have never found them remotely scary and have a hard to seeing why some people do.

What I do find scary is the gaslighting of Ally and Winter corrupting that child. 

I thought Winter asking Ozzie who his father was is too pointed a question to be just curiosity on her part. 

Speaking of Ozzie, my embarrassing confession is that I didn't know if that was a boy or a very progressive gender neutral girl at first. 

As a house porn lover, I adore the house Ivy and Ally are living in. It is the uncredited co-star of this show and totally distracting me.  Gorgeous!!!

Edited September 7, 2017 by islandgal140

[iMonrey]

Quote

Is Kai supposed to have already been amassing his cult, and realize the election means he can go public, with it?

Not unless he's somehow connected to the killer clown posse. I think the video he arranged to take while the (presumably) illegal immigrants beat up on him is supposed to be a recruiting tool, so the cult should still be to come.

[Bruinsfan]

1 hour ago, Snookums said:

What gets me about Oz reading that comic wasn't just the horrible violence but the blatant, graphic sex. I know Ally's position is a bare breast or penis never hurt anyone, but it just struck me as way too Adult Altogether for a seven/eight year old to be reading.

There was blatant, graphic sex? I must have looked away from the TV at a crucial moment.

[Anela]

14 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

Only episode one and I feel like this is the 1st time the show has truly lived up to its title: American Horror Story.  Part of me is like too soon because I really do find the election night stuff triggering and surreal even though its been almost 10 months and really, I watch tv to get away from the ever burning tire fire that is American politics today. The other part is intrigued by Ryan's take on it and where this will go.

I swear there is a drama teacher in Evans Peter's past that told him he will do well with crazy and damn was he/she right! I do have a slight issue with his styling though. He doesn't need the long purple hair and weird styling. I think he would be even scarier if he looked like an average white preppy guy with short hair, in glasses wearing a white shirt and khakis. Isn't that what was so shocking about his supporters and the MAGA movement in general? That they weren't toothless hick trailer trash?

I think I inherited a gene that makes me immune to clowns because I just have never found them remotely scary and have a hard to seeing why some people do.

What I do find scary is the gaslighting of Ally and Winter corrupting that child. 

I thought Winter asking Ozzie who his father was is too pointed a question to be just curiosity on her part. 

Speaking of Ozzie, my embarrassing confession is that I didn't know if that was a boy or a very progressive gender neutral girl at first. 

As a house porn lover, I adore the house Ivy and Ally are living in. It is the uncredited co-star of this show and totally distracting me.  Gorgeous!!!

I watched it again, because I missed certain things. She also asked which of his mums carried him. I wonder if Ivy was pregnant when they met. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by Anela

[Cupcake04]

4 hours ago, AllyS said:

Cheetos are orange and so is tRump's skin.

He also mimicked his hand motions and said something like "it's gonna be great" or another Trumpism.

[rubinia]

5 hours ago, Missbones said:

http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/ahs-cult-cheetos-trump-impression.html

 

Okay, apparently, he was supposed to be "impersonating" Trump.  I didn't get that.

He was looking in the mirror and saying Trumpisms. Many people compare Trumps skin color to Cheetos. He also went in to

gloat to Winter after putting on the cheeto face.

[Avaleigh]

On 9/6/2017 at 10:09 AM, ShadowHunter said:

Wild theory that maybe Kai is the sperm donor of Ozzy with this show its possible but I know its also a crazy thought. 

Would like to see more of the silbling relationship between Kai and Winter. 

I totally missed that they're siblings. Pretty creepy.

 

23 hours ago, Anela said:

I wondered if the therapist is a part of the cult, although Ivy would make sense, too. people working so hard to get someone elected, only to feel screwed over by the independents. Winter was one of them, Ivy another.

The main reason I think the therapist is in on it is because he basically knows everything about Ally. I can even see him as being the real cult leader. I can't see Cheyenne just playing a run of the mill therapist in AHS. IMO there's likely a twist.

As to my thoughts on the overall episode--as with last season, I don't feel that there's been anything scary about this so far. The first four seasons had decent thrills but I don't give a shit about clowns, they don't scare me and I don't feel like there's anything to say about Twisty that hasn't been said. 

That being said, I'm along for the ride because there are some things that are working for me. I'm intrigued by the characters of Winter, Kai, and Ivy. I'm also curious to see which other AHS alums pop up over the course of the season.

I hope Winter doesn't end up brainwashing that kid. In terms of bad babysitters, she's right up there with that chick from that freaky disturbing movie Emelie about a deranged babysitter. Now that was some shit that had me peaking through my fingers or out right closing my eyes because I was scared about what might happen.

Are people really surprised that Sarah Paulson is screaming and crying in AHS? With the exception of season 1, her characters have all screamed and cried and been in hysterics every single season. It's compulsory at this point so it doesn't bother me.

I already think that this season is a step up from last season. At least we don't know who lives and who dies right out of the gate. Last season's format was so stupid it wasn't until the final episode or two that there was any suspense. 

[rubinia]

47 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

There was blatant, graphic sex? I must have looked away from the TV at a crucial moment.

I guess the guy about to go down on the girl was a little graphic but she didn't have her skirt pulled up or anything. That kid has probably seen much worse. Also that comic book was probably not meant for little kids.

[Hazel55]

Great episode. 

At first (at least for me) the pacing seemed a little slow, it dragged a bit. And after Kai's speech, I was seriously fearing some lightly disguised, heavy handed political commentary. (I remember that they did this on American Gods once, where writers included a sequence that showed "Jesus disguised as an illegal immigrant" getting shot. Yikes.) 

However, the moment Ally started seeing Clowns, things began to improve. By the time they introduced the killer clown cult, I was hooked. 

Despite the generalized coulrophobia that has afflicted me since I saw Stephan King's IT at age 12, these clowns didn't creep me too much. I guess the bar was set too high by season 4 Twisty, who was truly terrifying the first several episodes of Freakshow.

Currently, I find the creepiest thing on the show to be Winter the nanny. Her entire blank affect is so effective because it is unclear what it is covering-- an frightened girl operating under the orders of her older brother, or a depraved monster delighting in violence for its own sake. Seeing her interactions with the kid is truly unnerving, even more so than the clowns. 

Anyway, excellent performances by all involved, including the child actor playing Ally and Ivy's son. 

This season looks promising. I hope it doesn't go off the rails, as several previously initially fine seasons of this show have (most notably "coven," which started out great, but ended up denigrating into something so awful and mindlessly tasteless that it was actually comical. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

He also went in to gloat to Winter after putting on the cheeto face.

I'm not convinced you can actually pulverize Cheetos in a blender. A food processor, maybe, but with a blender you'd have to keep pushing them down into the blades.

Quote

Are people really surprised that Sarah Paulson is screaming and crying in AHS? With the exception of season 1, her characters have all screamed and cried and been in hysterics every single season. It's compulsory at this point so it doesn't bother me.

She didn't really cry all the time and carry on in Hotel or Freak Show. But what she's doing here seems very similar to what she did in Roanoke. You'd think she'd be tired of it.

[Hazel55]

On 9/5/2017 at 10:20 PM, mustbekarma said:

That's why I mentioned the gaslighting in my comment. Ivy could also be drugging Sarah's character. I'm leaning towards the clown sightings all being real.

I'm having similar thoughts myself. 

My theory: Ivy is evil, in league with the clown cult, and intentionally working to destroy Ally. The clowns are real, but those in the cult want Ally to believe she is going crazy. 

My suspicions started when Ally dropped the following line:

“It was like they knew my fears. They wanted to murder me.”

Which got me thinking—who knows Ally’s greatest fears in their entirety, in detail? Probably only two people—the shrink and Ivy. But Ivy, Ally’s longtime partner who has been in a relationship with her for 16 years or so, would probably know that best what allows Ally to function, and what would make her lose it.

So perhaps Ivy is working with Kai, the leader of the clown cult, to set Ally up.* Somewhere along the road Ivy became Kai's lover and follower; he’s convinced her to take Ally down because of what she represents to him. (Everything he hates and fears.) Either she’s been Kai’s plant all along (unlikely, since Ally and Ivy have apparently known each other since their college days in 2001), or, far more likely, Kai managed to seduce and “convert” Ivy to his way of thinking within the past few years.

However, it could also be Ally's psychiatrist setting her up,  or both him and Ivy working together to do so. (Which would ironically show the two people Ally’s trusted most betraying her in the worst possible way.)

For most shows, such a bizarre twist would be nearly impossible; but for American Horror Story, it almost seems like a probability.                                     

Some potential evidence for Ivy being in league with the cult:
Again, whoever is setting Ally up (and I feel that what she is seeing must be at least somewhat real, since her hallucinating everything seems like a rather dead end in terms of future plot developments) knows her fears; her most intimate “triggers.” Who knows these, in their entirety? Probably only the psychiatrist and Ivy. 

Ivy’s reaction to the clown comic was weird. Ally has an utter freak out over it, then Ivy, after comforting Ally… discreetly puts the comic back in her sons drawer? Ally has been clearly “triggered” into having a hysterical break down from seeing that material once. Why would anyone in their right mind, after seeing a loved one react to something like that, not get rid of whatever object set them off immediately? And the argument that Ivy hid it in that drawer for the sake of her son doesn’t make sense, either—a graphic comic about a murderous clown is pretty inappropriate reading material for a 9 year old kid anyway.  

In this version, the clowns were real, but Ivy and the others (at the grocery store) pretended that they weren’t, to further upset Ally. The guy we met at the grocery store was a cult member, and thus pretended that he didn’t see anything.

Ivy arranged to have the clown show up at the restaurant, then pretended not to see him to further advance Ally’s fears that she is losing it. (Ivy: I was just here! There was no one! Ally: I know what I saw! I know what I saw!) A powerful way to make Ally totally lose faith in herself.

Someone also could have replaced the bloody crumpet and fingers when Ally ran out of the searching for the clown.

Also: Ally and her kid are clearly being targeted for… something. Why is Ivy being left alone? One possible explanation: she’s in on it. She wants to destroy Ally, then bring their son into the cult. Which would explain why Winter (put to the task by Kai) is trying to get the son “initiated” into witnessing violence.

 

* It could be that the leader of the clown cult turns out not to be Kai, but the psychiatrist or something. But for the sake of this argument, I'm just going to assume that Kai is the cult leader.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Hazel55

[Hazel55]

On 9/5/2017 at 10:25 PM, SimoneS said:

This was a good start to the season, actually scary with the clowns. My only thing is that Evan Peters' and his crew terrorizing that couple and son feels so random.

It could also be that Kai is not the clown cult leader, and that the show is just trying to set us up to believe he is. It could be that later in the season, we get a twist where we find out that Kai is only a standard variety bigot, and the real leader of the clown cult is someone else. (My prime suspects for this are Ivy, Ally's psychiatrist, or both working together.) Some support for this includes the fact that they never actually showed hard core evidence of Kai being involved in the cult, but did dedicate considerable time to illustrate him being an obnoxious, standard variety bigot and troll. (Making offensive speeches, setting up immigrants, for assault charges, etc.) 

As for the random nature of the attacks-- I'd say that is a mixture of standard American Horror story sensationalism, and, perhaps, a dash of realism. After all, the acts of many violent cults-- the Manson family murders, for instance-- were apparently random and wholly senseless. It was violence for its own sake, and notable for taking place in areas that did not usually see such things. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by Hazel55

[ClareWalks]

Ivy being involved would also explain why they hired Winter so readily. If Ivy seems totally on board with her, Ally would feel better about it.

[Avaleigh]

I keep going back to the fact that the psychiatrist insisted on putting Ally on the medication. Is it possible that Ivy switched out her pills? The psychiatrist also advises her to "check out of the world". 

I guess I'm confused as to shy Winter has fallen in so easily for her brother's disturbing plans. What is she getting out of this? Her feelings about him gloating about the election were hostile yet she admits that she's possibly afraid of him more than anyone or anything else. Why? Her brother is Weird and off but what is it specifically about him that makes her afraid? Maybe she's already seen him do something horrible. 

Right now I'm thinking that it's possible that the clowns who were having sex are Ivy and the psychiatrist. Ivy points out more than once that she isn't happy with her sex life and blames Ally. I'm guessing now that it's her way of giving a fuck you to Ally without putting all of her cards on the table. 

[Hazel55]

On 9/6/2017 at 11:45 AM, iMonrey said:

Best moment of unintentional humor: Ivy running out to see what Ally is screaming about and Ally going "There was a clown!!!!!"

That was quite funny, however, I'm not sure the humor was entirely unintentional.

Last night there were a lot of dryly funny lines arising in the midst of unfunny, sometimes even sad situations. My favorites:
“What if I get pregnant? Now where will I get an abortion?”

“They should have put a trigger warning on this” (the news.)

“Oh dear God. Please just stop tweeting.” (I’ve said this myself a few times, in exactly the same tone of voice.)

And of course: Kai: “Was there blood? And… poop?” This line, which should have been merely gross and creepy rather than funny, was lifted into humor by Evan Peters’ hilariously somber delivery.

And an honorable mention should go to Ally’s shrink advising her not to pay attention to what’s going on in the real world, and take up exercising or something. Paying attention to what’s going on in the world is apparently bad for one’s mental health.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Hazel55

[MadyGirl1987]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I'm not convinced you can actually pulverize Cheetos in a blender. A food processor, maybe, but with a blender you'd have to keep pushing them down into the blades.

Not gonna lie, when I saw that I thought of Seinfeld, in the episode "The Alternate Side" when Jerry and Elaine are debating if you can liquefy a cookie.

Edited September 8, 2017 by MadyGirl1987

[islandgal140]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

Ivy being involved would also explain why they hired Winter so readily. If Ivy seems totally on board with her, Ally would feel better about it.

I have no reason to believe that they didn't do their homework before hiring Winter. I bet on paper and via checking references, Winter would check out as an excellent hire. Our 1st sight of her on the show, she is on the phone bemoaning the election results with a friend saying that she gave up a year of at Vassar to campaign for Hilary. She was the one that had the 'trigger warning' line when the results were announced and asked Kai if he was there to gloat after the Trump win so I think she is a liberal (with serious issues i.e. cutting).  Maybe they had a horrible bet going and Winter doing what she is now is a part of it? 

I thought the pinky swear scene between Winter and Kai was probably the most mesmerizing of the whole episode.