S13.E09: Week 9: Overnight Dates

[JudyObscure]

14 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Ironically it is pointless because not everyone follows social media

Exactly.  I don't belong to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or anything remotely like that, so if it's going to be necessary to sign up for all that to follow the show, I'll just forget the whole thing and renounce my citizenship in Bachelor Nation.

It just speaks to the caliber of contestant that they can't be trusted to keep quiet until after the show closes.  Thinking of Kaitlyn who couldn't resist showing a picture of herself and Shawn in bed together before the final rose.

Edited July 25, 2017 by JudyObscure

[In2You]

ABC has been deleting the unflattering parts of the bios on their website but check this out

What's the closest you have ever come to being married?
Peter: My ex of two years. I was looking at rings after just three months.

http://abc.go.com/shows/the-bachelorette/cast/peter-2017

[waving feather]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Whether he left the room to go speak with Rachel's father (was he hiding in the den or something?) or whether he had just offered to  let the dog out, it still doesn't  explain why he didn't answer the uncle's question first. It would only have taken a second. If he had already answered the question and they chose not to show it, then we are seriously getting a false idea that Bryan couldn't think of a single thing about Rachel that he particularly likes (or whatever the exact question was.)

You know if we  can't discuss the show at face value,  then why bother to talk about it at all?  If we have to consider everything on the show as possibly just editing, then where do we draw the line? Was there a moment when the producer came in and had the men draw straws to see who got the watch date?  When we saw Rachel say goodbye to Eric in her pajamas, had in just stopped over in the morning to see if she wanted to go swimming?  When Peter said to Bryan, "I don't even like sitting on the couch with you."  Had the sentence really begun with, "I had one date's father dislike me so much he said I don't even like sitting on the couch with you." 

I get what you are saying that sometimes we should just take the show at face value and usually I do and don't really bother speculating about the edit because it's pointless. However, I'm not opposed to hearing or reading about it if someone on the show tells how certain scenes actually went down. I just take it as additional info for myself but I get it if some people don't bother with it. In this particular instance, not only Bryan mentioned that he went to talk to her dad but he said he gushed about Rachel to her uncle and answered the question fully. They just didn't show that. I mean, everyone is free to judge/ talk about him only based on what's shown on the TV, but that's just what his Instagram post said.

It's just behind the scenes tidbit. Nothing more or less and not trying to correct posters on their opinions. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by waving feather

[CaliCat]

On 7/25/2017 at 8:39 AM, JudyObscure said:

True but I understood why she was fishing for that, because all any of them do is talk about themselves.

Eric: " Ramble, ramble, my life, my story, connection, commitment, provide, protect, I feel safe with you, every date we move forward,"  Often,  he just repeats whatever Rachel just said. 

Peter: "I like to take things slowly and never make a move until I'm absolutely guaranteed that the future will be perfect.  I once lived with a woman for a year and when we broke up she cried!  I don't want to go through anything that traumatic, ever again"  "Oh look baby clothes!"  "You picked the wrong dress for a windy day Rachel."  "Don't get too close, Rachel, you'll wrinkle my shirt."

Bryan: "It's all so  marvelous, magical, swept away into paradise, walking on air, in love with your family, love, love, enchanted love."  Rachel's uncle to Bryan:  "Name something about Rachel that brings out the best in you."  Bryan: Long stunned silence. "Can I go to the bathroom?"

Rachel is exceptionally intelligent, has a wonderful, quick sense of humor, can make the best out of any awkward situation, is passionate, extremely honest, open to all types of people, is kind, will interrupt herself when cute little girls walk up,  and really a very special person in many ways besides being physically stunning -- and I haven't heard one of these guys express any of that.  If they can't see Rachel for herself and not just the show prize, I really wouldn't want any of them for her.

Wow! What an perceptive recap!  And you're spot-on in your summary of Rachel's good qualities. The bolded part made me laugh so loud I scared my cat. ?Thank you for this. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by CaliCat
Spot-on, not in

[JudyObscure]

11 minutes ago, waving feather said:

 I mean, everyone is free to judge/ talk about him only based on what's shown on the TV, but that's just what his Instagram post said.

I have no desire to "judge" Bryan or anyone else.  He has been my favorite from the start and I have said several times that he didn't seem insincere to me.  Then last night the show makes him seem to be at a loss for words to answer the uncle's question.  I begin to think maybe I was wrong and Bryan really is  smarmy.  Then today Bryan goes to social media to say it didn't happen that way at all. 

I'm not upset with anyone here for reporting the tidbits they find.  I'm mad at the show for essentially lying to me about what happened.  Then, by not even bothering to require the contestants to keep quiet until the show's over, they disrespect the viewer even more.   This is not like editing for drama in the sense of Kenny's bleeding eye.  In this case they actually left us with a bad impression of someone, making Rachel's know-it-all sister seem like the great wise woman who can read a person's character instantly.  "Sloppy seconds?"  I wonder if they would have been as cold to Dean over the "Never go back," comment?

I would be mad at the contestants for not being able to stay off social media but I'm beginning to think that would be  like asking an alcoholic to put down the bottle. 

[Mooncake76]

5 hours ago, TomGirl said:

Ok, I'm being very cynical here, and of course I could be entirely wrong, but my guess is that Rachel and Eric have had an honest conversation in which she's told him she's NOT going to choose him, but wants to take him as far as possible.  What does a Eric get out of this?  Lots of positive exposure and adoring fans, exotic travel, and fun, easy times with his BFF Rachel.  And what does Rachel get?  Fun, easy times with her BFF and, probably most important, a way to avoid being known as the black Bachelorette who didn't like any of the black guys.

I can believe this. Mid season we saw a very neurotic Eric questioning anyone within earshot what Rachel is feeling and generally over-analyzing every decision she makes, while now he seems more Zen calm. It's quite a dramatic difference at a time when the stakes seem to be getting higher. I also remember a scene where he seemed almost blasé about it being obvious who the favorites are, and he clearly knew he wasn't included in that group. Either Rachel had a very honest discussion with him or he has correctly assessed the situation, has accepted the inevitable outcome, and is just enjoying the ride.  

[nutty1]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Whether he left the room to go speak with Rachel's father (was he hiding in the den or something?) or whether he had just offered to  let the dog out, it still doesn't  explain why he didn't answer the uncle's question first. It would only have taken a second. If he had already answered the question and they chose not to show it, then we are seriously getting a false idea that Bryan couldn't think of a single thing about Rachel that he particularly likes (or whatever the exact question was.)

You know if we  can't discuss the show at face value,  then why bother to talk about it at all?  If we have to consider everything on the show as possibly just editing, then where do we draw the line? Was there a moment when the producer came in and had the men draw straws to see who got the watch date?  When we saw Rachel say goodbye to Eric in her pajamas, had in just stopped over in the morning to see if she wanted to go swimming?  When Peter said to Bryan, "I don't even like sitting on the couch with you."  Had the sentence really begun with, "I had one date's father dislike me so much he said I don't even like sitting on the couch with you." 

I quit talking about Big Brother because every point was responded with "That was just editing," or, "If you watched the live feeds you would know how wrong you are."  Now with the Bachelors going to Instagram or twitter to say "That's not what really happened," there's even less point in trying to follow along with the show. 

I would say I am 99.9% sure he did answer. They edit this show like crazy. I have heard interviews with so many past contestants who verify this. They will even throw in an ITM with the person wearing different clothes and try to pass it off as the same date the ITM is shown with. 

[catrice2]

48 minutes ago, Mooncake76 said:

I can believe this. Mid season we saw a very neurotic Eric questioning anyone within earshot what Rachel is feeling and generally over-analyzing every decision she makes, while now he seems more Zen calm. It's quite a dramatic difference at a time when the stakes seem to be getting higher. I also remember a scene where he seemed almost blasé about it being obvious who the favorites are, and he clearly knew he wasn't included in that group. Either Rachel had a very honest discussion with him or he has correctly assessed the situation, has accepted the inevitable outcome, and is just enjoying the ride.  

I am so on board with this...and it is exactly what I would have done too.  People also forget while they are saying how Eric is not petty, etc. he was the one who kept counting how many Black people she was keeping and sending ( Anthony or Will had to check him)  home and if her motives were real.  He probably still would if he had another Black person there to talk to about it with.  Eric has no reason to say anything negative about Bryan, Peter or Dean  at this point because he accepted in his mind a long time ago that he was not going to be Rachel's choice. Besides, I doubt we saw the whole conversation.  He may not have said anything about Miami, but he made his point about her wearing the watch. 

Eric s also building his brand..he is a motivational speaker....hence all the " I have overcome," and the Zen like attitude.  He is no different than any of the others, he just knows he has no chance of being the next Bachelor so he is focusing on what he can control..which is showing himself as a positive person that can motive  That is not to say that I don't find him genuine in his own way. 

It is easier to be that way when you really feel like you are not in contention.   Also, all of these guys for the most part are probably friendly after the show., which is why I don't understand the fans getting so worked up.  I recall some of Nick's girls opted not to get into the Rachel/Vanessa conversation by saying "I was gone, I  have no idea."  That's true of a lot of these men.  They may  be friendly with Peter or Bryan because they never observed any negative behavior in the early days before they were eliminated, and maybe, just maybe neither guy telegraphed their thoughts. Again, most of them knew they were not serious contenders so there was no reason to feel jealousy or as if they were in competition.  Both Bryan and Peter knew they were competition for each other, so I can see there being some ill feelings.    Counting how many people are "friends" with either man on social media or in pictures  as evidence of who was the most liked  by the others is juvenile, and I said the same thing about the Rachel/Vanessa debate. 

 Men are different.  Many of them were probably gone before the Peter/Bryan conflict came about, and the ones that are left are not going to let that stop them from being friends with either of them. Men typically don't choose sides like that, just just go out had have a drink or play ball with whoever, whether they like them or not.    They live in different places, so they can hang out with Peter and Bryan without conflict.  Besides, most of them are chasing fame or recognition. Even if they don't like Bryan ( or Peter) if they want to stay relevant and around the franchise it is a good look to be with the "winner," the proposed next Bachelor , or the person getting social media attention and keep yourself in the sights of the producers and media.   My friend tells me that "life in color" seemed really close to Vanessa until she realized being close to Rachel may be more advantageous.....and that she was then one of the girls that showed up in Rachel's first episode. 

I find it nauseating how people leave this franchise as if the people they were on the show with are the best friends they ever had and they had no friends before the show.  It is like some kind of illness.  I wonder, however, how many of them would actually be there for them if they were really down and out and not just for a social media picture or a trip to a bar or some resort to have fun? 

By the way, Rachel pretty much proved she is a liar.  If she thought Bryan was a douchebag, why give him the first impression rose?  Since he had his one on one so late in the season, when exactly would he have had more than ONE DAY to convince her otherwise?   He wasn't even front and center on the group dates I remember up to that point, but I didn't see every episode.  She has contradicted herself SEVERAL times during this season thus proving she will say anything to go along with the program.  

Edited July 26, 2017 by catrice2

[Nikki55x]

I watch the show to comment on what I see on the show. I could not care less about editing or whatever the contestants say about what "really" happened. The point of reality tv is escapism and snark not a point out how fake the show is, who cares. It is annoying as hell that this new crop of E listers see the need to clear they good name (ha) and have they fans bug others with the its not real lines (duh). Dude if I wanted real I would turn on the news and even that is not 100.

[catrice2]

21 minutes ago, Nikki55x said:

I watch the show to comment on what I see on the show. I could not care less about editing or whatever the contestants say about what "really" happened. The point of reality tv is escapism and snark not a point out how fake the show is, who cares. It is annoying as hell that this new crop of E listers see the need to clear they good name (ha) and have they fans bug others with the its not real lines (duh). Dude if I wanted real I would turn on the news and even that is not 100.

I think that is part of what annoys me about people from this franchise.  They think having a lot of instagram followers mean that the larger world is interested in them and they are a actual celebrities.   They are only big in the minds of ABC and the 20/30 year old somethings that follow the show religiously.  I'd like to think that the older viewers are not stalking facebook, instagram and twitter and "liking" these people, so their "appeal" is really to a smaller audience than they think, probably a lot of teen girls and boys, or ones in college. Even the "celebrities" that say they watch the show watch it comically, and to make fun of them, not because they care for them or admire them as people.  Once their shelf life is over it is not as if they count them as real friends. 

 I for one would not be flattered to know that my celebrity idol (not that I have one) thinks that I am a joke.  I think "E" lister is generous.  I think you can even make fake accounts to boost your numbers, so what does it really mean? 

That is why it annoys me when people from this franchise get jobs on news shows, etc. because of ABC connections and the fact they were willing to embarrass themselves on national television when there are others who went to school for years and knocked on doors for the same chance. 

[kingshearte]

23 hours ago, awaken said:

So, having been in love and having several  past long-term relationships is prerequisite for being in love "for real" and getting married? It's like they think it's suspicious of one's ability to have a serious relationship if they haven't had several before. Very strange standard they were harping on. That would rule out a lot of great relationships if it were a requirement!  

I don't think it's that strange. Anecdotal examples aside (we all know someone who's happily married to their high school sweetheart or whatever), the vast majority of people do not spend the rest of their lives with the first person they ever fall in love with. So learning that I was the first person a guy had ever fallen in love with would make me... I don't know. I don't know quite how to phrase it. But I probably would be skeptical about whether this guy were truly ready for a lifetime commitment if I were his first love ever. Maybe that's not fair. But I think I'd still be skeptical.

23 hours ago, hoosiermom said:

I am confused. Is the issue with Peter that she is afraid he WON'T propose to her because he believes that means marriage or that she doesn't want to be obligated to marriage when he does propose?

Seriously. Only in weirdo Bachelor-land is a statement like "when I get engaged, it will be because I for sure want to marry this person" considered a devastating revelation. Her take on what it means to be engaged makes no damn sense. In fact, if that's what she feels like it means, then it kind of seems to me that she and Peter do in fact want the same thing; she just wants it to involve jewelry. So basically, she wants a promise ring.

I gotta say, though, that this episode has got me coming pretty close to all the way around to believing that it'll be Bryan after all. In addition to the watches, he's also the only one who met her friends, and her reactions to her family's reactions to him were indeed telling. And in the realm of manufactured angst, the whole "I think I love him, but my family isn't convinced he's sincere" beats Peter's fear of hardware hands down. I thought the latter was the big manufactured angst to provide doubt, but maybe that's actually a legitimate issue.

On the other hand, the fact that they went to cliffhanger on it suggests that it will ultimately come to nothing, so I don't know. I was kind of all excited to have gone through the whole season unspoiled, and have formed a definite prediction all by myself, but now I'm kind of back to not really having any sense of how this is actually going to shake down.

[SallyAlbright]

In a weird way, this episode actually made me like Bryan. He came across to me as being so incredibly nervous that he defaulted to his "charming" babble and could barely string a response together. You could almost see him thinking "oh no, that was too much" but he couldn't stop himself. I think he actually is genuinely crazy about Rachel which makes me like him more. I fell in lust with Peter at first sight and thought Bryan was smarmy on night one, but now I prefer Bryan. His lines are cheesy, but he is good-natured and laid back. Plus, I've noticed that he always stands up when Rachel enters the room and I am always a fan of good manners. Peter lost me a bit with repeated "She and I's relationship" blunders. Pretty wears off quickly. 

Finally, am I the only one who doesn't think Bryan has cheek fillers? His dad had exactly the same cheeks. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by SallyAlbright

[Refresh]

4 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I find it nauseating how people leave this franchise as if the people they were on the show with are the best friends they ever had and they had no friends before the show.  It is like some kind of illness.  I wonder, however, how many of them would actually be there for them if they were really down and out and not just for a social media picture or a trip to a bar or some resort to have fun? 

I see what you're saying but think the friendships on this show are real. The contestants spend SO much time with one another and it's a unique experience. They clearly bond . The exposure can change how everyday life is for a while.  You need others that understand that. It would seem that a "normal" friend might not want that side exposure? I know I wouldn't. If my bestie got insta-famous I would still be their friend but I might visually take a back seat. I may not take All The group Selfies for instagram for a while. And I might also say, hey, I'm here for you but I want my privacy so come over for some wine but we are not going out together. Cult of "celebrity" is weird but it's real. 

Example: A good friend of mine went on a blind (for her) double date with a memorable character on Survivor. She didn't watch the show. I do. She told me after the date what/who etc. The description of the evening had a lot of interruptions by his fans. This was at least a year or so after his season aired.  So right after? I can't even imagine. 

 

Back on this episode. I like Rachel a lot. Easily my  fave bachelorette in the last 10 years (hi Meredith!). Compared to JoJos final 3 swoopy haired morons, Bryan Peter and Erik are amazing. But I don't like any of them for her. 

Maybe a hybrid? Take the physical connection and desire from Bryan, the energy and pure support she shares with Erik and the open communication and everyday ease she has with Peter. That guy. Where's he? 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Refresh
Clearing up thought

[Venee]

Some observations....

Rachel clearly put forth the power play choosing Peter last in the Hometown date to squeeze that "L" word out of him, then tried to play coy when he sat her down to drop the "L" word before going to meet the Parents. It was almost comical Rachel :  "why Peter whatever do you mean? what part of our conversation" 

If Rachel thought Bryan was a douche bag, why did she give him the first Impression rose? I don't believe she thought that for one second....

I wonder if Rache'ls sister is jealous of her. Rachel said growing up, her sister was the beautiful one that got all the attention, now Rachel is getting all the shine... 

Rachel's Mom is very elegant and has a gentle grace about her. I liked her.

If she has already chosen Bryan (according to some) and is just riding it out with the other two, why is she so "Devastated" by what Peter told her?

Peter's comment about fake boobs and butts, makes me think he is probably not a fan of the "Bachelorette look" I'm betting he doesn't care for the extentions, make up and lashes at all. ..

When Bryan was tying to probe Peter about his meeting with Rachel's parents,  he reminded me of those kids back in school who missed a test, and tried to get what was on the test from the students who took it so they could get a better grade.

If Bryan is F1 the producers have done Rachel a big disservice with the way they edited him, because right now , she looks foolhardy choosing him.

[dleighg]

3 hours ago, Venee said:

Rachel's Mom is very elegant and has a gentle grace about her. I liked her.

 

I liked her as well. She reminds me of my late mother. Serious, thoughtful, who is really *listening*.

[hyacinth]

7 hours ago, SallyAlbright said:

I prefer Bryan. His lines are cheesy, but he is good-natured and laid back.

I am starting to view Bryan the same way.   Nothing wrong with a good-natured extrovert to settle down with.  

Quote

If she has already chosen Bryan (according to some) and is just riding it out with the other two, why is she so "Devastated" by what Peter told her?

Ego?   I found it odd, too.   I wonder if Bryan will feel the same way Lauren allegedly felt about Ben and Jojo.  On the other hand, that's where his easy-goingness might come in handy.    

Edited July 26, 2017 by hyacinth

[JenE4]

17 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Judging by the reactions I see online for Peter, unfortunately you and I maybe be in the minority on that sentiment. Trust me, I get it but yeah, the fanaticism that seems to have developed around this guy, if Rachel doesn't pick him, no way they don't make him the next Bachelor. 

I keep seeing this sentiment expressed multiple times in every episode thread throughout the season. I get that the Internet is a vast place, so I presume this is expressed elsewhere. Around these parts everyone seems pretty blah about all the choices that are left. Usually this board is a pretty fair representation of Bachelor Nation, and I'm just not seeing it. I think there was more variety amongst the guys we were rooting for earlier on (Will, Anthony, Kenny, Diggy, Dean, Josiah...). I think if any of them made it this far, there'd be a bit more excitement about her choice.

16 hours ago, Koalagirl said:

He instagrammed that the reason he left the room was to go speak with Rachel's father off camera.  The editing made it look like he didn't want to answer the question.

Dad was hiding out in another room of the mansion?! I imagine him with a TV tray of untouched food in front of him, straining to hear through the wall. 

14 hours ago, comosedice said:

I am glad you clarified that uneasiness is your equivalent of fear. It isn't mine and I thought the family just found Bryan's spiel rehearsed lines, hence the questions about his sincerity. I understand perfectly why the sister laughed and told him he's only met them for an hour when he told her that he "LOVED" the family. I question what kind of weight the word love has for him. He seems to just throw it out.

I honestly think The Love of His Life mother has just given him a REALLY skewed expression of love. He's way too effusive to his own mother, so I can kind of see why he's the same way with Rachel--and her family. I mean, little kids LOVE their mom. By the time you're 37 like Bryan, you SHOULD have separated a bit. You date someone and you have a new, stronger kind of love. So I almost think for Bryan that if he LOOOOVES his mom, having feelings for Rachel, too, makes him feel that he also LOOOOVES her. And then anything less like a general feeling of good will toward someone might be small-scale regular "love" to Bryan. It's like on Arrested Development when Gob and Tony Wonder think they've fallen in love, but Ron Howard narrates, they haven't. They're just developing a feeling of friendship but since neither has any friends, they didn't understand the feeling.

[dleighg]

As I read the morning after with Eric, they were quietly telegraphing that they did not sleep together. After all, she is shown in a full body onesie, and playfully pushes him out of the room so that she can shower and dress. Do you do that if you've just spent the night together?

[SnapeCharmer]

5 hours ago, Venee said:

Some observations....

Rachel clearly put forth the power play choosing Peter last in the Hometown date to squeeze that "L" word out of him, then tried to play coy when he sat her down to drop the "L" word before going to meet the Parents. It was almost comical Rachel :  "why Peter whatever do you mean? what part of our conversation" 

If Rachel thought Bryan was a douche bag, why did she give him the first Impression rose? I don't believe she thought that for one second....

I wonder if Rache'ls sister is jealous of her. Rachel said growing up, her sister was the beautiful one that got all the attention, now Rachel is getting all the shine... 

Rachel's Mom is very elegant and has a gentle grace about her. I liked her.

If she has already chosen Bryan (according to some) and is just riding it out with the other two, why is she so "Devastated" by what Peter told her?

Peter's comment about fake boobs and butts, makes me think he is probably not a fan of the "Bachelorette look" I'm betting he doesn't care for the extentions, make up and lashes at all. ..

When Bryan was tying to probe Peter about his meeting with Rachel's parents,  he reminded me of those kids back in school who missed a test, and tried to get what was on the test from the students who took it so they could get a better grade.

If Bryan is F1 the producers have done Rachel a big disservice with the way they edited him, because right now , she looks foolhardy choosing him.

Maybe. Men are visual beings first. No matter how much they try to deny it. But I see a few problems with making a bridge from his comment to his possible dislike of Rachel's look. One, underneath the makeup, eyelashes and hair, Rachel is naturally a very attractive woman. I think she's a cross between Robin Givens and Rihanna. I have yet to meet someone that has claimed those two women aren't gorgeous. Second, Rachel is very fit; athletic with curves in the right places. He's a fitness trainer, so I would think he appreciates that. His hands on the group dates don't lie. Third, he referred to major  surgical body enhancements. A lot different than make up you wash off at night, eyelashes you can peel off, and hair extensions you can remove in less than an hour. I don't like the make-up, garish eyelashes or hair extensions and I blame the make-up artist  this season for certain. But to say Peter's put off by it, nah, I wouldn't give him that easy way out. Guess what, he saw all that on day one, day two, and so on...if he didn't like it he knew where the door was.

3 minutes ago, Siggystardust said:

Maybe. Men are visual beings first. No matter how much they try to deny it. But I see a few problems with making a bridge from his comment to his possible dislike of Rachel's look. One, underneath the makeup, eyelashes and hair, Rachel is naturally a very attractive woman. I think she's a cross between Robin Givens and Rihanna. I have yet to meet someone that has claimed those two women aren't gorgeous. Second, Rachel is very fit; athletic with curves in the right places. He's a fitness trainer, so I would think he appreciates that. His hands on the group dates don't lie. Third, he referred to major  surgical body enhancements. A lot different than make up you wash off at night, eyelashes you can peel off, and hair extensions you can remove in less than an hour. I don't like the make-up, garish eyelashes or hair extensions and I blame the sylist  this season for certain. But to say Peter's put off by it, nah, I wouldn't give him that easy way out. Guess what, he saw all that on day one, day two, and so on...if he didn't like it he knew where the door was.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Siggystardust
spelling

[waving feather]

Watching Bryan with Rachel's family made me so nervous because he looked terrified himself. He really wanted them to like him. I think she could sense it too and came to his aid.  It's a bit confusing at the end, when Rachel was telling him that she's so proud of him and that her family was impressed. Um, really?! LOL. I actually loved the way Rachel's mother questioned Bryan. She was firm but fair and kind and ALL class. Rachel's sister, on the hand, was a little rude. But certainly not close to being the harshest relative among the hometown/meet the parents in Bachelor franchise history.

I think Rachel is a good Bachelorette, as well as a good person. I could sense her really trying to understand Peter and where he was coming from, even though she may not compromise from her end. But she wasn't being judgmental about the struggle he was having and was honest about where she stood as well. I don't know if Peter struggles with the general thought of engagement this soon or the thought of engagement this soon with Rachel.

I like Eric but he's such a non factor.

Man, who will be the next Bachelor from these group of guys? I don't see any good candidate except for Dean. He's kind of immature but as a Bachelor candidate, better than Bryan/Peter/Eric for me.

Edited July 26, 2017 by waving feather

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, dleighg said:

After all, she is shown in a full body onesie

The onesie seems to be Rachel's thing and I would assume the couple gets dressed in some way before the cameras are let back in. That said, I don't think she slept with Eric, since I get a total friendship connection with the two of them. 

 

Quote

If Bryan is F1 the producers have done Rachel a big disservice with the way they edited him, because right now , she looks foolhardy choosing him.

Maybe it's just me but I don't agree that Bryan has had this awful edit and that if he is F1, the producers did him and Rachel a disservice. I think with Bryan, there were a lot of negative opinions about him from some even before the season started, thanks in part of the Ellen show "sloppy seconds" comment. And then there was the whole intense makeout on Night 1 and people thinking he was spouting lines and being cheesy, while Peter had the first one on one and Rachel was glowing after it and the Peter love just grew. 

But since then, Bryan's edit has been fairly low key in my opinion. Since he didn't seem to have any issues or drama with anyone (Peter seems to have an issue with him, not vice versa), the focus on him has mostly just been his and Rachel's relationship. And while some will always have their opinion that he's too charming, bordering on smarmy or whatever, the editing has presented their relationship as really positive in my opinion. Rachel always looks happy with him, there's never any tension between them, they seem to just enjoy being with each other and you get the feeling that things between them is very easy and comfortable. 

If anything, it's why many believe that Peter may be the Final 1 because it's the F1 edit that usually shows the struggle to throw people off. Think of Nick's season and how his and Vanessa's relationship was edited versus him and Raven. And this season, all the dramatics and confusion and tears seem to be between Rachel and Peter. So YMMV but I don't think if Rachel picks Bryan the producers would have screwed them with the edit because to be honest, from what I've seen, it would make perfect sense to me why she picked him. 

 

Quote

I keep seeing this sentiment expressed multiple times in every episode thread throughout the season. I get that the Internet is a vast place, so I presume this is expressed elsewhere. Around these parts everyone seems pretty blah about all the choices that are left. Usually this board is a pretty fair representation of Bachelor Nation, and I'm just not seeing it. 

Yeah it's the predominant sentiment on social media. Social media for this season is essentially Peter = perfect and all things good and Bryan = fake and smarmy. And the attacks against Rachel have started from those thinking she may pick Bryan. I don't know that I agree that this board is a fair representation of Bachelor Nation because the people who post here regularly are generally more snarky all around, which is what I enjoy about this place. So most are pretty fair and balanced (wow sounds like I'm quoting FOX News) in judging all the parties involved. Most other places I read is so different. A lot of viewers tend to put some of these people on these huge pedestals and the fawning and rooting for one over another becomes very over the top. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Venee]

Just now, Siggystardust said:

Maybe. Men are visual beings first. No matter how much they try to deny it. But I see a few problems with making a bridge from his comment to his possible dislike of Rachel's look. One, underneath the makeup, eyelashes and hair, Rachel is naturally a very attractive woman. I think she's a cross between Robin Givens and Rihanna. I have yet to meet someone that has claimed those to women aren't gorgeous. Second, Rachel is very fit; athletic with curves in the right place. He's a fitness trainer, so I would think he appreciates that. His hands on the group dates don't lie. Third, he referred to major  surgical body enhancements. A lot different than make up you wash off at night, eyelashes you can peel off, and hair extensions you can remove in less than an hour. I don't like the make-up, garish eyelashes or hair extensions and I blame the make-up artist  this season for certain. But to say Peter's put off by it, nah, I wouldn't give him that easy way out. Guess what, he saw all that on day one, day, two and so on...if he didn't like it he knew where the door was.

I think she looks a lot like Robin Givens! Rachel is beautiful (to me), but I've seen many who don't think Rhianna or Robin are gorgeous... we have the internet to thank for that. Peter was a model for years, he was  surrounded by beautiful women with insane bodies (I saw a pic of him with an ex). I could see Peter pulling a Brian like in the movie "Something New"  (for those that have seen that movie.)

[dleighg]

I do NOT get Rachel's concept of engagement. Peter makes obvious sense to me. "I want to be engaged exactly as many times as I get married. Hopefully once."

I guess there are people who are ok with "We're engaged!" "When are you getting married?" "Oh I don't know, someday."

[StatisticalOutlier]

This episode of The Bachelorette was brought to you by the letter F.  Actually, it was supposed to be E, but E was too exhausted from decades of inserting itself into the word "forgo" on fantasy suite cards, so F it is.

As in Feelings, which I'm glad wasn't my drinking game word.  If it were, I would be tempted to call a technical foul when it's pronounced "fillings," but that would mean watching the show sober, and that's no good.

And Flags, of the red variety.  When you can't figure out why your 37-year-old too good to be true boyfriend hasn't been snapped up, but then you actually meet, in person, the reason your 37YOTGTBT boyfriend broke up with his last girlfriend, believe your lying eyes.  And when your boyfriend says all the right things when pontificating about conflicts between wife and mother during marriage, but when asked point blank, "In an irreconcilable conflict between your wife and your mother, who would you choose?" and he is drowning in a sea of silence, listen to that silence instead of jumping in to save him with, "He said his loyalty is with his wife."  Because it's not.

And finally, Fight.  Or, the throw-down I was hoping to see when the chiropractic physician referred to him as such to an anesthesiologist.  But it was not to be.  Maybe the real doc was saving it for Thanksgiving, as an alternative to talking about politics, but if so, he'd better be packing his bags for Miami.

[comosedice]

11 hours ago, catrice2 said:

By the way, Rachel pretty much proved she is a liar.  If she thought Bryan was a douchebag, why give him the first impression rose?  

Maybe she likes douchebags. She sees their douchebagginess as confidence.

[Quickbeam]

Bryan's mommy issues would have me screaming in the other direction. They just never work out well for the wife. 

[comosedice]

10 hours ago, SallyAlbright said:

In a weird way, this episode actually made me like Bryan. He came across to me as being so incredibly nervous that he defaulted to his "charming" babble and could barely string a response together. You could almost see him thinking "oh no, that was too much" but he couldn't stop himself. I think he actually is genuinely crazy about Rachel which makes me like him more. I fell in lust with Peter at first sight and thought Bryan was smarmy on night one, but now I prefer Bryan. His lines are cheesy, but he is good-natured and laid back. Plus, I've noticed that he always stands up when Rachel enters the room and I am always a fan of good manners. Peter lost me a bit with repeated "She and I's relationship" blunders. Pretty wears off quickly. 

Finally, am I the only one who doesn't think Bryan has cheek fillers? His dad had exactly the same cheeks. 

His mom had the "cheeks" too. They're like the Kardashians. Same surgeon probably.

[Venee]

Just now, StatisticalOutlier said:

This episode of The Bachelorette was brought to you by the letter F.  Actually, it was supposed to be E, but E was too exhausted from decades of inserting itself into the word "forgo" on fantasy suite cards, so F it is.

As in Feelings, which I'm glad wasn't my drinking game word.  If it were, I would be tempted to call a technical foul when it's pronounced "fillings," but that would mean watching the show sober, and that's no good.

And Flags, of the red variety.  When you can't figure out why your 37-year-old too good to be true boyfriend hasn't been snapped up, but then you actually meet, in person, the reason your 37YOTGTBT boyfriend broke up with his last girlfriend, believe your lying eyes.  And when your boyfriend says all the right things when pontificating about conflicts between wife and mother during marriage, but when asked point blank, "In an irreconcilable conflict between your wife and your mother, who would you choose?" and he is drowning in a sea of silence, listen to that silence instead of jumping in to save him with, "He said his loyalty is with his wife."  Because it's not.

And finally, Fight.  Or, the throw-down I was hoping to see when the chiropractic physician referred to him as such to an anesthesiologist.  But it was not to be.  Maybe the real doc was saving it for Thanksgiving, as an alternative to talking about politics, but if so, he'd better be packing his bags for Miami.

That was the other thing I wanted to talk about! How did he describe his occupation? I thought I heard "Doctorate" thrown in there, so I looked it up and the internet said 

"Graduates of chiropractic schools receive the degree Doctor of Chiropractic" maybe that's what I heard. My daughter is premed at Columbia U in NYC. she has spent the entire summer studying for the MCAT  and shadowing physicians. She'll be in school forever. It appears it takes forever to become a Chiropractor too. Maybe that's another reason why he isn't settled....... nah it's definitely Olga....

[truthaboutluv]

Bryan posted  a picture of himself at like 12 or 13 with his dad for Father's Day and his cheeks were even more pronounced then. So unless he was getting plastic surgery or whatever people think he's doing at 12, I'd say that's just how they look. 

[useryikes]

16 hours ago, catrice2 said:

God, what a crappy group of men!  

Aren't they, though!  I said earlier that I would watch, but couldn't get into it because I didn't like any of them.  

[comosedice]

6 hours ago, Venee said:

If Bryan is F1 the producers have done Rachel a big disservice with the way they edited him, because right now , she looks foolhardy choosing him.

 

6 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Bryan posted  a picture of himself at like 12 or 13 with his dad for Father's Day and his cheeks were even more pronounced then. So unless he was getting plastic surgery or whatever people think he's doing at 12, I'd say that's just how they look. 

Are we actually using kids with baby fat pictures to prove a point? I would like to direct you to some pictures of young Jenners and Kardashians. Cheek implants are supposed to make you look youthful, you know, like when you were a youth. Anyway, I've seen those kid pics and I don't see the pronounced cheeks.

[waving feather]

Seems like his dad went to the same plastic surgeon then. So did his grandma and his cousin. Family discount, baby! ;-)

[comosedice]

27 minutes ago, Venee said:

That was the other thing I wanted to talk about! How did he describe his occupation? I thought I heard "Doctorate" thrown in there, so I looked it up and the internet said 

"Graduates of chiropractic schools receive the degree Doctor of Chiropractic" maybe that's what I heard. My daughter is premed at Columbia U in NYC. she has spent the entire summer studying for the MCAT  and shadowing physicians. She'll be in school forever. It appears it takes forever to become a Chiropractor too. Maybe that's another reason why he isn't settled....... nah it's definitely Olga....

In the country of my birth we have 'bush doctors.' They reside mostly in the rural parts, but you go to them for herbal medicines and special baths. Anybody can call him or herself a doctor if they want to.

[Koalagirl]

20 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Based on spoilers and I think Rachel confirmed it in an interview, it was last. They aired the meetings with her family in the order it occurred. 

Thanks.  I stand corrected.  It's hard to trust what we're seeing because of all the cutting and chopping they do in the editing room.  In the past they haven't always aired them in order.

[comosedice]

3 minutes ago, waving feather said:

Seems like his dad went to the same plastic surgeon then. So did his grandma and his cousin. Family discount, baby! ;-)

Lol! The Bryan cheek defense squad coming through. None of this changes what my eyes are seeing and I have no interest in digging into his family tree or any other part of his life.

[kingshearte]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

And Flags, of the red variety.  When you can't figure out why your 37-year-old too good to be true boyfriend hasn't been snapped up, but then you actually meet, in person, the reason your 37YOTGTBT boyfriend broke up with his last girlfriend, believe your lying eyes.  And when your boyfriend says all the right things when pontificating about conflicts between wife and mother during marriage, but when asked point blank, "In an irreconcilable conflict between your wife and your mother, who would you choose?" and he is drowning in a sea of silence, listen to that silence instead of jumping in to save him with, "He said his loyalty is with his wife."  Because it's not.

So much this. She may well pick him, and they may even be well suited to each other. But mom will kill that relationship, no question. Maybe soon, if Rachel opens her damn eyes and gets the hell away, or maybe after years of festering resentment. But you cannot have a successful relationship with a mother like that unless you (and by you, I mean the offspring of the mother in question) set some very firm boundaries. And, although we've only seen a brief glimpse, nothing in that glimpse indicated to me that Bryan is prepared to set any such boundaries — or even acknowledge the need for them.

The way he talked about the previous relationship kind of said it all for me. If that had happened, and his response was along the lines of "Whoa, can't let that happen again," it would be one thing. But it came across very much as warning Rachel: this is how my mom is; you better be prepared to deal with it. That's not the attitude of someone prepared to set those boundaries and stand up for his wife.

Edited July 26, 2017 by kingshearte
Thought of something I wanted to add.

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, Koalagirl said:

Thanks.  I stand corrected.  It's hard to trust what we're seeing because of all the cutting and chopping they do in the editing room.  In the past they haven't always aired them in order.

Yeah I think the HTD's weren't aired in the order they happened. 

 

Quote

Are we actually using kids with baby fat pictures to prove a point? I would like to direct you to some pictures of young Jenners and Kardashians. Cheek implants are supposed to make you look youthful, you know, like when you were a youth. Anyway, I've seen those kid pics and I don't see the pronounced cheeks.

I didn't use anything to try to prove anything. As you said, you trust what you see and I go by what I see. I merely pointed out that he seemed to have the same face in my opinion, so I'm not sure that he has had anything done to his cheeks. Honestly, it's not that serious. Some believe he has fillers or botox or whatever and have added that to the list of his sins, fair enough. My opinion is that based on some old pictures I've seen, he doesn't appear to look that different. It's not just a 13 year old picture of him. There are also pictures from his early 20's where to my eyes he looks the same. But I don't profess to be a plastic surgery expert so maybe he and his whole family are botoxing all over the place. Okay, whatever.

Edited July 26, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[SnapeCharmer]

52 minutes ago, Venee said:

I think she looks a lot like Robin Givens! Rachel is beautiful (to me), but I've seen many who don't think Rhianna or Robin are gorgeous... we have the internet to thank for that. Peter was a model for years, he was  surrounded by beautiful women with insane bodies (I saw a pic of him with an ex). I could see Peter pulling a Brian like in the movie "Something New"  (for those that have seen that movie.)

Actually I agree, with your point about some/many people not thinking Rihanna and Robin are gorgeous and I could have phrased that better. beauty is indeed subjective. But I stand by one thing, I think generally many would say Rachel is at minimal, attractive. Even if she may not be their type. As for Something New, I saw that movie one time when it first came out. It took me a minute to get what you were referencing, but now I do. When Simon baker's character told Sanaa Lathan's character that he wanted to see her with her natural hair (or something like that). Well, I don't know and I'm not in the business of tearing other women down about their looks. However, the quick photo I saw of his ex, doesn't lead me to believe that he has an issue with minor enhancements. She looked well made up (make up, hair ,and such). She didn't look like some natural, carefree, makeup free woman. She looked like she puts in some extra effort. Just saying...Models, including Peter himself are styled to the hilt as well. Beauty-->subjective. 

By the way, I did not like that movie for various reasons.

[StatisticalOutlier]

14 minutes ago, Venee said:

That was the other thing I wanted to talk about! How did he describe his occupation? I thought I heard "Doctorate" thrown in there, so I looked it up and the internet said 

"Graduates of chiropractic schools receive the degree Doctor of Chiropractic" maybe that's what I heard. My daughter is premed at Columbia U in NYC. she has spent the entire summer studying for the MCAT  and shadowing physicians. She'll be in school forever. It appears it takes forever to become a Chiropractor too. Maybe that's another reason why he isn't settled....... nah it's definitely Olga....

I glanced at the admission requirements for the top results on Google, and they don't require an undergraduate degree for admission.  They require 90 hours of college credit, but even that can be negotiable.

And yes, he did say "doctorate."

[waving feather]

5 minutes ago, comosedice said:

Lol! The Bryan cheek defense squad coming through. None of this changes what my eyes are seeing and I have no interest in digging into his family tree or any other part of his life.

There's a Bryan cheek defense squad? LOL. I think his cheeks are kinda unattractive, so I hope he didn't pay for it or he should ask for his money back.

[Catronia]

The back and forth about Bryan (me, not a fan) reminds me of a line from Into the Woods:

PRINCE CHARMING: I said I was charming, I never said I was sincere.

[SnapeCharmer]

As soon as I saw his father, I knew where his cheeks came from. Cannot believe this is an actual debate. Cheek defense squad. You never fail me internet. LOL

[ljenkins782]

22 hours ago, comosedice said:

Bryan's questions were no different from the others. I think the way he answered them was what had the family bothered. He was asked about how he would handle conflict between his mother and significant other because he created an opening for that question. I don't think he handled it well.

I'm positive Rachel's mother was alerted to the situation with Bryan's mom, the producers wouldn't take a chance on missing a soundbite on that one, since it's potentially the very biggest obstacle to Rachel and Bryan's relationship. 

And no, he didn't handle it well. The "I'd hope that they would work it out" was the first blunder (and a huge red flag) and the pauses around the idea that  the wife's feelings come first were the second. I think he was sweating about the fact that his mom was going to see this eventually. 

Quote

I thought there was something telling when Peter was being snooty as hell talking to Bryan. Putting aside his obvious seething disdain for Bryan for whatever reason, when he started talking about being bothered by sitting with her other boyfriend while another boyfriend is meeting the family, it occurred to me that Peter's real issue is that he resents having to compete for a woman. If the reaction online towards his apparent devastating looks is any indication into his normal life, he's probably gotten used to women chasing him. So he has no interest in doing it, which is why he will probably be far more comfortable in The Bachelor role where a bunch of women will be there fawning and chasing him and declaring him the greatest thing since sliced bread. 

I'm sure he's used to being chased. Good looking men who are a little remote and require a chase are always going to be popular. And Rachel's being rather obvious about her feelings for Bryan, which probably chaps his ass even more, especially if he personally dislikes Bryan. He's talked quite a bit of shit about Bryan throughout the season, including the "fake cheeks" dig in this episode. 

On the flipside, Bryan's remark about hoping Peter "sets the bar really low" was probably the most I've ever liked Bryan. It was the first glimmer of a real person behind the platitudes and cheesy lines.

I think Eric's my favorite at this point, though he might as well have 3rd place stamped on his forehead. He would be my Bachelor pick out of the final 3, he's got the "never been in love [until Rachel]" story, plus he might have a dramatic moment when she dumps him. Given the show's aversion to diversity in their leads, I'm torn on whether I think they'd shy away from having a black Bachelor just after a black Bachelorette, or if they'd go the 2002 Oscars route (Denzel/Halle Berry getting Best Actor/Actress) and "get it over with" so they can return to their status quo for the next 10 years or so. 

Quote

I especially didn't get their concern over Eric "never being in love before."  How many times did someone say that about Eric?  Would they have preferred he had been a player with a few children scattered around by women  with whom he had "been in love?"

In a way, I can kind of understand the concern around a 29-year-old man who's never had a serious relationship suddenly jumping into marriage, especially since Rachel is many steps ahead as far as relationship experience goes. It would be quite an adjustment and they would be working through first time relationship issues in the most serious relationship there is. 

But in thinking more about it, it probably shouldn't be that big a deal. There would be a benefit in the lack of baggage from prior relationships and it would probably feel more special that you aren't just one of a string of relationships. 

Quote

I think Rachel's family just liked Peter more than Bryan and it didn't have that much to do with the order in which they met the guys. While Bryan tries too hard to impress and say the perfect thing, Peter is more free and open about his feelings (and loves to discuss them in detail). I think after meeting Peter, who I'd say is easily is more logical about the process and what will come after, Bryan's fairytale promises and protestations that he basically fell in love with Rachel at first sight smacked of insincerity. It all smoothed over in the end so I didn't feel too bad for Bryan (not that I'm much inclined to sympathize with him in the first place, but yeah).

Bryan's "charm" has put off quite a lot of people, including Rachel herself at times (though she did give him the first impression rose, so her claims of wariness seem a little disingenuous), so I'm not surprised it rubbed her family the wrong way too. There's such a lack of substance behind the words. He's like a resume custom-designed to hit the keywords of an automated hiring system and he's hitting all of the words that Rachel wants to hear. Based on what we've seen (which is of course, edited versions of longer events), their conversations seem to consist of nothing but Bryan fawning over her and her eating it up with a spoon. 

Quote

Re: Bryan, I think they were using "charming" as a euphemism for a bundle of adjectives that all amount to "full of shit".  I've had co-workers who walk around telling everyone how "brilliant" they are.  It's meant to be ingratiating but comes across as completely inauthentic and phony because, we can't all be that smart.

Good example. Rachel's sister shutting him down immediately when he tried to claim to "love her family already" was great. Sucking up can work on people in acquaintance roles, but for relationships that are supposed to develop into deeper bonds, obsequiousness will work against those relationships. You can't trust a compliment from a person who does nothing BUT compliment everyone they see for anything they do.

[mostlylurking]

I am not understanding Rachel's definition of engagement.  It seems like she just wants to get that ring on her finger and then just date.  I'm hoping she only feels this way in the context of this show, because maybe she will feel embarrassed not getting engaged??  Peter wants to date and THEN put the ring on a finger and THEN get married.  Seems like the logical order of things to me.

I think Peter is being realistic.  Maybe that's silly when you signed up to be on this show, but if he's just not ready to get engaged well he's just not.   I think it would be MORE embarrassing to get engaged before being ready and then just break up later.  Peter is definitely more formal and reserved than the other men, but maybe he's just uncomfortable in this situation.  I can see him being a very laid back, easy going guy in real life.  Plus I am in the camp that just can not get over how hot he is.  He is beautiful.

I felt a little bad for Bryan in the beginning of the date because when Rachel's mom asked if he would pick his wife over his mom, he did answer the question.  But then she kept asking.  It sounded producer prompted.  Especially when by the end everything was just peachy.  Bryan is not my type in any way, but I don't think he's insincere.  That's just his personality.

I really love Eric.  I think he is very genuine and I don't think it's such a crazy thing that he has never been in love.  He's 29, not 49.  Plus it seems he's had a pretty tough life, so maybe he was just too busy getting himself together to be bothering with relationships.  He seems like he knows himself very well and is very perceptive.  Rachel was grilling him on their date.  I didn't like that.  She did the same thing to Dean when harping on him to talk about his family and his feeling for her.  It was almost like she was wanting to make him cry or something.  You're not in court Rachel, dial it back a notch or twenty.

I hate that I don't like Rachel as much now as I did at the beginning of the season, but that usually happens with me....the longer they are on tv the less I like them (Nick being possibly the lone exception).  I think her stylist needs to be fired and her desperation coupled with ordering the guys to express their feelings is just not nice.  Oh well.  I think all three are decent guys, so best of luck to them.

Edited July 26, 2017 by mostlylurking

[mostlylurking]

On 7/25/2017 at 1:01 PM, Siggystardust said:

Would I be willing to  fake romance and make a fool of myself on national television to have my dream job?

Well I am married and old but if I was young and single the answer would be shit yeah!!  Visiting exotic locations, flirting with cute(ish) dudes, getting my drink on....sounds fun!  I think I would want to stick around specifically so I could have the experience.  And if I got a boyfriend/husband out of it....all the better!

Actually I kind of feel Eric has this perspective to a certain degree.  I think he knows he's not going to be the one.  He's just enjoying the experience and growing from it.  I really like him for that.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

23 hours ago, Kbilly said:

Anyone notice that Eric doesn't ever touch her? Like when they are kissing he sits still while she kisses him? They have zero chemistry as a couple. I felt like her mom haaaated him.

 

17 hours ago, Canada said:

Forgot to add to my post: Rachel's family seems really snobby and uptight.  I couldn't be around any of them for any length of time.

We're seeing a well-known dynamic at work here. Some people who come from less-than-successful backgrounds but then achieve success (as Rachel's family obviously has) hate where they grew up and people who act "too White Trash" (or "too Mexican" or "too Asian" or "too Black" or whatever). Eric is obviously a smart and well-spoken man who has made great strides to improve his life; however, his speech and mannerisms are still very "hood," for lack of a better term. Rachel's parents, who have spent their lives integrating themselves into upper-class white society, would totally see Rachel choosing Eric as a step in the wrong direction. They seem snobby and uptight because that's how the people they work and socialize with carry themselves, so they're mirroring that behavior as a way to be accepted.

(FYI: My fiancee is from Chicago and knows a couple of African-American classmates at Columbia College who came up out of the projects, got scholarships and today are very successful. Not only do they never, ever go back to the projects they grew up in, they refuse to even drive through those neighborhoods or associate with the people who still live there.)

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV podcast on the episode!

 

Whine & Roses: It's No Spain, No Gain For The Bachelorette!

Rachel makes her family meet the men and then jets off to Rioja to cavort with her final three.

[JenE4]

3 hours ago, comosedice said:

Lol! The Bryan cheek defense squad coming through. None of this changes what my eyes are seeing and I have no interest in digging into his family tree or any other part of his life.

 

3 hours ago, waving feather said:

There's a Bryan cheek defense squad? LOL. I think his cheeks are kinda unattractive, so I hope he didn't pay for it or he should ask for his money back.

 

1 hour ago, Siggystardust said:

As soon as I saw his father, I knew where his cheeks came from. Cannot believe this is an actual debate. Cheek defense squad. You never fail me internet. LOL

Lol. Add me to the "Huh??? Whaaat?" side of the Cheek Defense Squad. I've officially heard everything. Internet is closed for business. None of this even makes sense. The Anti-Cheekbone Genetics Sqaud is what's really in full force. I don't think anyone on the Defense Sqaud really cares--just don't really get the "accusation" if it appears to be a family trait. Moreover, high cheekbones are traditionally a feminine trait, so what "manly men" are going into the plastic surgeon's office and asking for the cover girl super model special?

[Chick2Chic]

1 hour ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

18 hours ago, Canada said:

Forgot to add to my post: Rachel's family seems really snobby and uptight.  I couldn't be around any of them for any length of time.

We're seeing a well-known dynamic at work here. Some people who come from less-than-successful backgrounds but then achieve success (as Rachel's family obviously has) hate where they grew up and people who act "too White Trash" (or "too Mexican" or "too Asian" or "too Black" or whatever). Eric is obviously a smart and well-spoken man who has made great strides to improve his life; however, his speech and mannerisms are still very "hood," for lack of a better term. Rachel's parents, who have spent their lives integrating themselves into upper-class white society, would totally see Rachel choosing Eric as a step in the wrong direction. They seem snobby and uptight because that's how the people they work and socialize with carry themselves, so they're mirroring that behavior as a way to be accepted.

(FYI: My fiancee is from Chicago and knows a couple of African-American classmates at Columbia College who came up out of the projects, got scholarships and today are very successful. Not only do they never, ever go back to the projects they grew up in, they refuse to even drive through those neighborhoods or associate with the people who still live there.

That seems like an over-generalization based on 10 minutes of screen time but obviously mileage varies. Then again, I got the impression I was seeing that Rachel's family was down-low being called uppity from the initial comment quoted, which makes me uncomfortable as a Black woman to see. 

[Chick2Chic]

Deleted scene with Rachel's cousin and Peter.