The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[CofCinci]

I can see John David grinding it out until Jim Bob drops dead of a heart attack, then sighing with relief, moving out and living out the rest of his life as that quiet, weird guy with the house on the edge of town who may or may not be writing a manifesto.

Who goes to Thailand twice a year to visit his favorite brothel.

I can definitely see JD and/or his family investing in a mail order bride/exploited woman from a third world country that they find on one of their bullshit missions.

Edited September 4, 2015 by CofCinci

[Guest]

I don't know, but I think Jana is, without diagnosing her, a nervous Nelly. I think she is intelligent enough to have real world questions but is filled with what-ifs. She tows the party line out of fear, not fear of JB & M, but fear that their beliefs are correct. What an awful way to live, and by staying in the family fold, she can stay safe on the coattails of her parents.

 

I think that is an astute non-diagnosis. I'll never forget how Jana admitted that evolution made sense to her, paused, and then quickly returned to the party line (I'm paraphrasing here), saying, "Oh, but it contradicts the Bible, so it must be incorrect."

[Guest]

I can definitely see JD and/or his family investing in a mail order bride/exploited woman from a third world country that they find on one of their bullshit missions.

 

Perhaps JillyMuffin is in Central America to bag him a bride. 

 

Although, I confess, it would be kind of nice if one of the girls married someone from another country. Poor Jinger could get the last laugh by moving to some faraway city abroad like London, Paris, or Prague -- y'know, a city big enough to have its own Walmart.  *eyeroll*

[kokapetl]

Who goes to Thailand twice a year to visit his favorite brothel.

I can definitely see JD and/or his family investing in a mail order bride/exploited woman from a third world country that they find on one of their bullshit missions.

I don't think there's any evidence that suggests John-David engages in sex tourism in a country notorious for child sex tourism.

[JenCarroll]

I read in the comments section of an old internet article about Duggar courtships that Jana was interested in a pastor 15 years her senior. Has anyone heard this rumor before from a reputable source? If so, do tell!

I think Jana might do all right as a pastor's wife, assuming it's an employed pastor with a parsonage to live in. I never thought about it before, but it's probably one of the few roles in life she's reasonably prepared for. And she'd be sheltered, at least somewhat. Maybe we should start looking around, see if we can find her a nice pastor 15 years her senior. Or any age, really.

[Guest]

The Official Duggar Facebook page has posted two pictures of Izzy with Auntie Jana. Judging from the giant smile on Izzy's face, Auntie Jana would make a small fortune as a nanny out in the community. She's definitely a baby whisperer.

 

I will say, however, that Jana does look quite tired. I imagine that she is helping Anna with newborn Meredith and the other M'kids, and the tension in that house right now must be weighing on anyone old enough to understand what has happened to their family. :-/

[Absolom]

I wonder what's wrong with me when I look at photos and don't see the tiredness, emotions, etc. that other people see.  Jana looks more relaxed than usual to me in that photo and in fact has a bit of resemblance to Duchess Kate going.  I'll never be hired as a photo interpreter for sure.

[Joe Jitsu913]

Notice with Joshgate I & II, the family releases pictures of Jana with children. Almost like a "Look, Jana and cute children! Aww..how preshush! What a special blessing! Aren't little ones cute? Everyone loves Jana and babiez! Now please forget all about the scandal and give us back our show (and our money)!"

[kandinski]

I actually have no pity for Jana,She is an age where she is living the life she has chosen.Deep down she knows the whole Duggar lifestyle is messed up.

I think if one person jumped ship and blew the whole charade wide open,others would follow.

Tlc would jump on a "The Duggar Children Facing A new Day" or some cliched crap.Put them in a house and watch while they try to adjust to a normal life.

[louannems]

Jana looks normal! She is wearing a logo tee shirt without an extra vest underneath! She has various colors of paint smeared on her denim skirt. Are the Duggar's doing some remodeling? Imagine painting in a skirt!!!

[kokapetl]

Not really the most flattering photos. The terms "thin, villainous lips" and "raccoon eyed" come to mind.

[Ilovemylabs]

I wonder what's wrong with me when I look at photos and don't see the tiredness, emotions, etc. that other people see.  Jana looks more relaxed than usual to me in that photo and in fact has a bit of resemblance to Duchess Kate going.  I'll never be hired as a photo interpreter for sure.

There's nothing wrong with you.  Sometimes we see what we want to see or see what supports our perception of the Duggars.  I don't see most of these emotions either.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Ilovemylabs

[Churchhoney]

I wonder what's wrong with me when I look at photos and don't see the tiredness, emotions, etc. that other people see.  Jana looks more relaxed than usual to me in that photo and in fact has a bit of resemblance to Duchess Kate going.  I'll never be hired as a photo interpreter for sure.

 

We could all be hired as photo interpreters. Just by different people.

[sometimesy]

I hope Izzy has reason to smile all the time. He is so much cuter with a happy face.

[Guest]

I have seen quite a few pictures of Jana hanging out with Tabitha Paine (unmarried 29yo fundie, older sister of Chad Paine). I do hope that it is indicative of Jana's wish to remain single (until she finds the right person) that she is surrounding herself with friends who have also withstood the pressure to marry young...

[BitterApple]

I have seen quite a few pictures of Jana hanging out with Tabitha Paine (unmarried 29yo fundie, older sister of Chad Paine). I do hope that it is indicative of Jana's wish to remain single (until she finds the right person) that she is surrounding herself with friends who have also withstood the pressure to marry young...

Lol, I hope that's the case and Jana hasn't been shunted off to the Lonely Spinsters Club. Michaela Bates narrowly avoided being a member after Brandon finally caved and proposed. If I spot her with Sarah Malley, then I know she's doomed.

[Guest]

Lol, I hope that's the case and Jana hasn't been shunted off to the Lonely Spinsters Club. Michaela Bates narrowly avoided being a member after Brandon finally caved and proposed. If I spot her with Sarah Malley, then I know she's doomed.

 

I feel second-hand embarrassment for Sarah Malley. How awkward to write a "Before You Meet Prince Charming" book and never get married. Hopefully the girls won't take too much of her dating advice...

[BitterApple]

I feel second-hand embarrassment for Sarah Malley. How awkward to write a "Before You Meet Prince Charming" book and never get married. Hopefully the girls won't take too much of her dating advice...

Kind of like Bill Gothard setting standards for marriage, sex and child rearing even though he's never been a husband or a parent. What is that saying, those who can't do teach, right?

[Guest]

Kind of like Bill Gothard setting standards for marriage, sex and child rearing even though he's never been a husband or a parent. What is that saying, those who can't do teach, right?

 

It does seem to be a trend in these circles. I never understood why Jana, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger wrote about relationships with guys in their book before any one of them had experienced a relationship with a guy. Why not wait and write that book after you've bagged a husband?

Edited September 5, 2015 by Guest

[Julia]

It does seem to be a trend in these circles. I never understood why Jana, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger wrote about relationships with guys in their book before any one of them had experienced a relationship with a guy. 

 

I'm going to go with so they'd be big enough celebrities for TLC to pay for their weddings.

[Guest]

I'm going to go with so they'd be big enough celebrities for TLC to pay for their weddings.

 

Well, you've got me there. 'Relationships with Guys' does make a much sexier, attention-getting book chapter than 'Relationship with the Lord.' No offense, God. 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Guest

[CofCinci]

It does seem to be a trend in these circles. I never understood why Jana, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger wrote about relationships with guys in their book before any one of them had experienced a relationship with a guy. Why not wait and write that book after you've bagged a husband?

Jim Bob actually makes some very keen business decisions. Perhaps he knew there was no way on earth the sisters would get a dating book deal if/when the molestation scandal broke. Took the first offer and crossed his fingers.

[Guest]

Jim Bob actually makes some very keen business decisions. Perhaps he knew there was no way on earth the sisters would get a dating book deal if/when the molestation scandal broke. Took the first offer and crossed his fingers.

 

Even though the family claims that it is all about maintaining purity, JB still found a way to pimp out his daughter's sexuality like all other reality TV fathers. That's why we watched the awkward courtships and weddings, after all.  

[kokapetl]

It does seem to be a trend in these circles. I never understood why Jana, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger wrote about relationships with guys in their book before any one of them had experienced a relationship with a guy. Why not wait and write that book after you've bagged a husband?

Money. Money now better than money later. Your money's money is money, money.

[DangerousMinds]

Married or not, they still have no dating experiences to share,

[CofCinci]

Married or not, they still have no dating experiences to share,

So true.

But their fans still made their book a NY Times Bestseller.  I'd love to know how many books were actually sold and how much profit they made.

[leighdear]

I think people bought the book to possibly "see behind the curtain".  And to see, if by chance, these young women with such a radically different lifestyle had an interesting perspective on relationships.  

 

Of course, it ended up being like one of those recipe books that claim incredibly delicious food can be made with no fat, no carbs, no cholesterol and no calories.  It was the stale, off-brand rice cake of the publishing world. 

[Guest]

But their fans still made their book a NY Times Bestseller.  I'd love to know how many books were actually sold and how much profit they made.

 

I would be very, very interested to know if each of the four older girls have individual savings accounts and split the royalties four-ways from their book. Or if JB just grabbed the whole check and claimed it was back-rent money. 

[Churchhoney]

So true.

But their fans still made their book a NY Times Bestseller.  I'd love to know how many books were actually sold and how much profit they made.

 

Honestly, it just couldn't have been all that much because only true blockbuster books make much money now. Given what I've heard from writers I know, I would put the ceiling on their take from the book at around $250,000. (and I doubt that it's been even that much).

 

Then they had two ghost writers -- David Waller and Charlie Richards. They may not have had to pay Waller all that much since he was certainly there to make sure that the correct Gothard perspective was sneaked in throughout, and he could have been required to view the reward of getting that perspective in there accurately as an element of his "payment." Richards, however, is an actual professional writer with strong multimedia writing credits both in the Christian and mainstream worlds. Among  many other things, he's the creator of that multimedia "Life at the Pond" material for kids that the Duggars endorse. So let's say they negotiated as ruthlessly as possible with these guys. And maybe they only paid Waller $3,000 or so for his contribution. Richards, however, clearly wrote the whole damn book, so they would have to give him something vaguely approaching professional pay -- so let's say that super-skinflint Jim Bob manages to squeeze that down to $10,000. Now the girls are down to $237,000, tops, as the take for the four of them, or about $59,000 each.

 

I don't really see a way they could have avoided paying self-employment taxes on that money. Other writers all do, and self-employment taxes are very high -- the entire employer/employee portion of Social Security/Medicare taxes in addition to personal income tax. But let's say that Jim Bob has a super speshul talented and shady tax accountant who figured out to trim that tax burden to something minimal and bring them down only a bit, to $50,000 each. Now, that may sound like a lot of money. But it's one-time money that they really couldn't expect to earn again until//unless at least a couple of them were married and had children, seems to me. How soon was America going to buy another Duggar girl manifesto on love? So it either had to be parceled out over a few or several years or saved for the future.

 

And I'd be really surprised if each of them did realize as much as $50,000 from it. I'm pretty convinced that the scenario that gives them that much overestimates their total take from the book and significantly underestimates what went out to the ghost writers and, especially, in taxes. .... And that scenario doesn't even take into account the possibility that Jim Bob skimmed some of their money (or all of it ... but I'm trying to think positive here). A check for between $30,000 and $50,000 is nice. But if you have no possibility of earning money in the same way again for several years at least, it isn't going to do that much for you.

 

Would love to know the facts also. But I don't think it made them rich, even if they got all the money they were due.

[floridamom]

I think those girls mis-represented themselves in that book they "wrote". Since none of them had ANY relationship experience with a guy, EVER, it was a book which simply let the general public know what their beliefs were and how their courting rituals operated. Nothing much more. I haven't read the book, and I plan to, but I will check it out of the library FOR FREE and have the best of both worlds. I won't contribute one penny to that belief system, yet I would like to know the facts about it.

I also understand that those who have read it and have reported on it, have stated that the girls real agenda there was to promote their beliefs to others and hopefully knock "dating,  you know, for FUN," off the face of the earth. Besides, what's so sinful about having an enjoyable time without pressure being added on by a multitude of family members? No one has to have SEX before marriage....enjoying the company of the opposite sex ALONE isn't a sin in the least.

[Fosca]

t

But their fans still made their book a NY Times Bestseller. I'd love to know how many books were actually sold and how much profit they made.

I wonder how many copies of that book JB and the Gothardites bought themselves to pump up sales. Maybe that's what's in one of those warehouses on their property.

[Churchhoney]

I wonder how many copies of that book JB and the Gothardites bought themselves to pump up sales. Maybe that's what's in one of those warehouses on their property.

 

Ha! And the books could be well hidden beneath all of Jim Bob's other grifted crap.

[lookeyloo]

Maybe it will turn up in the dollar store

[kokapetl]

The promotional book signing tour would've helped sales. People who purchased the book could meet the Duggars and get their purchase signed in chicken scratch by nearly all them, not just the family members who nominally wrote it.

[Darknight]

The promotional book signing tour would've helped sales. People who purchased the book could meet the Duggars and get their purchase signed in chicken scratch by nearly all them, not just the family members who nominally wrote it.

Those autographs are terrible. Don't they take writing class?

[Julia]

Honestly, it just couldn't have been all that much because only true blockbuster books make much money now. Given what I've heard from writers I know, I would put the ceiling on their take from the book at around $250,000. (and I doubt that it's been even that much).

 

Then they had two ghost writers -- David Waller and Charlie Richards. They may not have had to pay Waller all that much since he was certainly there to make sure that the correct Gothard perspective was sneaked in throughout, and he could have been required to view the reward of getting that perspective in there accurately as an element of his "payment." Richards, however, is an actual professional writer with strong multimedia writing credits both in the Christian and mainstream worlds. Among  many other things, he's the creator of that multimedia "Life at the Pond" material for kids that the Duggars endorse. So let's say they negotiated as ruthlessly as possible with these guys. And maybe they only paid Waller $3,000 or so for his contribution. Richards, however, clearly wrote the whole damn book, so they would have to give him something vaguely approaching professional pay -- so let's say that super-skinflint Jim Bob manages to squeeze that down to $10,000. Now the girls are down to $237,000, tops, as the take for the four of them, or about $59,000 each.

 

I don't really see a way they could have avoided paying self-employment taxes on that money. Other writers all do, and self-employment taxes are very high -- the entire employer/employee portion of Social Security/Medicare taxes in addition to personal income tax. But let's say that Jim Bob has a super speshul talented and shady tax accountant who figured out to trim that tax burden to something minimal and bring them down only a bit, to $50,000 each. Now, that may sound like a lot of money. But it's one-time money that they really couldn't expect to earn again until//unless at least a couple of them were married and had children, seems to me. How soon was America going to buy another Duggar girl manifesto on love? So it either had to be parceled out over a few or several years or saved for the future.

 

And I'd be really surprised if each of them did realize as much as $50,000 from it. I'm pretty convinced that the scenario that gives them that much overestimates their total take from the book and significantly underestimates what went out to the ghost writers and, especially, in taxes. .... And that scenario doesn't even take into account the possibility that Jim Bob skimmed some of their money (or all of it ... but I'm trying to think positive here). A check for between $30,000 and $50,000 is nice. But if you have no possibility of earning money in the same way again for several years at least, it isn't going to do that much for you.

 

Would love to know the facts also. But I don't think it made them rich, even if they got all the money they were due.

You make a number of very good points. But then, it is not unheard of for conservative publishers to funnel money to people they want as political allies for books they don't ever expect to sell. I can't imagine a company owned by Rupert Murdoch would be paying a quarter of a million dollars for a book about life from young women who spent theirs locked in a series of small rooms if they were strictly hoping to sell books.

[Vaysh]

Those autographs are terrible. Don't they take writing class?

 

The younger kids' look pretty normal for their ages but Michelle's seriously looks like a middle schooler wrote it. Or high schooler if one wants to be generous. It is interesting in a way; I read somewhere that people often stop evolving and growing at around the time they get married and Michelle married at what, seventeen? Her signature certainly seems to have stopped evolving at around that time. Did she dot the I with a heart?

[Churchhoney]

You make a number of very good points. But then, it is not unheard of for conservative publishers to funnel money to people they want as political allies for books they don't ever expect to sell. I can't imagine a company owned by Rupert Murdoch would be paying a quarter of a million dollars for a book about life from young women who spent theirs locked in a series of small rooms if they were strictly hoping to sell books.

 

True. But we aren't talking about Murdoch here, are we? I understood that they're published by a Christian-oriented imprint of Simon and Schuster -- and they're part of CBS. So that's a lot more tenuous political connection, if there even would be one desired in that quarter.

 

But if you're right, then I would think that the question about what's in it for the girls would be moot anyway, since if somebody wanted to get a political ally from the publication, I'd think they'd want JB and M, not the girls, wouldn't they? So if it's a payoff, then it must have gone directly into Jim Bob's pocket, I would think. And $250,000 is one thing if you have to split the after-tax portion among four people, but a pretty different thing if it all goes to one person. I'm not really buying the payoff idea, though, since Howard Books out of S&S seems kind of unlikely to be motivated in that way toward Jim Bob, to me, anyway.

 

(also, I was basing my ceiling estimate of $250,000 on the idea that it actually sold and was expected to sell and therefore was paid for at the ordinary rates -- so if we're just talking a payoff for books that were never intended to be sold, then the amount that was paid could be anything, a million bucks or 25 cents .... )

Edited September 6, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Julia]

Huh, my bad. I don't know why I thought they were published by Murdoch.

 

But yeah, I don't really see these books selling for that kind of coin because the publisher felt as if there was that kind of demand for it. Also, I just discovered that they narrate their own audiobooks, which is a whole other level of scary.

[Churchhoney]

Huh, my bad. I don't know why I thought they were published by Murdoch.

 

But yeah, I don't really see these books selling for that kind of coin because the publisher felt as if there was that kind of demand for it. Also, I just discovered that they narrate their own audiobooks, which is a whole other level of scary.

 

Cause it seems as if Jim Bob spawn would be published by Murdoch!

 

And, yeah, the audiobook narration definitely would be scary.

[BitterApple]

Jackson is eleven right? His penmanship looks like a first graders.

[galax-arena]

I'll never forget how Jana admitted that evolution made sense to her, paused, and then quickly returned to the party line (I'm paraphrasing here), saying, "Oh, but it contradicts the Bible, so it must be incorrect."

OMG. This just makes me sad. #FreeJana!!!

 

You know someone like Jessa or Ben would just say that evolution doesn't make any sense at all. (Or in Ben's case, claim that the theory of evolution is racist.)

 

I feel second-hand embarrassment for Sarah Malley. How awkward to write a "Before You Meet Prince Charming" book and never get married. Hopefully the girls won't take too much of her dating advice...

TBH, I think at this point Sarah Mally doesn't WANT to get married. Her book isn't really dating advice per se, it's all about keeping yourself pure. And she has a nice little business going on, lecturing girls on how to be content with being single and the benefits of waiting, etc. Why let marriage ruin that? 

Edited September 6, 2015 by galax-arena

[kokapetl]

Jackson is eleven right? His penmanship looks like a first graders.

The picture is approximately from March 2014, so almost ten then. Still pretty substandard for someone who should have been in the fourth grade.

[Julia]

(Or in Ben's case, claim that the theory of evolution is racist.)

I realize that looking for the reason in anything that young man says is a loser's game, and that he's just rearranging vaguely-apprehended talking points he probably thinks came from the bible in his head like puzzle pieces trying to find a truth bomb for every occasion, but I just can't wrap my mind around that one. I looked it up. Arkansas was one of the first states to enshrine the one drop rule in law with an eye toward knowing who to oppress. One of the revelations (and I use that word advisedly) of evolutionary theory and the anthropological record is that _every living human being on earth_ is descended from someone in Africa.

I'm not going to step into the waters of intra-group racism, but according the theory of evolution and the pre-civil rights act laws of Ben's state, the whole world is black. Not that I'm sure we wouldn't find some other reason to hate people (vaginas is a popular choice), but we'd definitely lose that one.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Julia

[dillpickles]

Those autographs are terrible. Don't they take writing class?

They can write, right? That's good enough for a Duggar.

[kandinski]

Its laughable really,Michelle signs exactly how you would think she would,cutesy and saccharine.

[Twopper]

 

They all live in a small and insulated area.  No real emerging industry or urban growth.  Small business is the norm, aside from the high volume retailers like Wally World, Target, etc.  The competition for low-skill and low-pay jobs has got to be fierce.

Well, their little town may be small, but the county they are in is part of a much larger SMA with a population of about 450,000. I am not sure what the unemployment rate is, but even if it is low, that doesn't mean the boys will have an easy time finding jobs because of the anti-employee  and anti-education views of JB.  If he doesn't want them educated he should make sure they go to trade school and get certified.  And one should go to a real school and get a business degree to help the others run their business; they already have an accountant.  I can't imagine any of them doing well enough to support a family of 19 kids and counting.  JB couldn't do it without TLC, and they won't have that to fall back on. I get very depressed if I think about how poorly prepared the 19 are. 

[GeeGolly]

Not only are the Duggar 19 poorly prepared, that's compounded by the fact they don't know that they are poorly prepared.

[Guest]

Lol, I hope that's the case and Jana hasn't been shunted off to the Lonely Spinsters Club. Michaela Bates narrowly avoided being a member after Brandon finally caved and proposed. If I spot her with Sarah Malley, then I know she's doomed.

 

Just out of curiosity, what age qualifies one for the Lonely Spinster Club in their cult?

 

Jana is quickly approaching 26 with 30 around the next corner. When will she be deemed "too old" to marry? Will the only fundie guys still available at 30 be the bottom-of-the-barrel guys and/or widowers? 

[SomePity1066]

Well, you've got me there. 'Relationships with Guys' does make a much sexier, attention-getting book chapter than 'Relationship with the Lord.' No offense, God. 

None taken...

 

                   -God