S07.E01: Dragonstone

[riley702]

8 hours ago, taanja said:

They showed that scene on the "previously on..." right before the episode started. So this casual viewer knew exactly where the Hound and co were.

As I posted at the top of the previous page.

Edited July 20, 2017 by riley702

[riley702]

4 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Agree regarding Sam and Jorah. 

As for WW, then are we to assume that the giant we saw that looked like Wun Wun was a living baby giant? Definitely not Wun Wun. Weren't there horses too? I clearly need to re-read the books. I don't think the show does a great job of explaining. 

I just got excited that Sam might find a cure for Ser Jorah!

I thought the three giants we saw were all wights, not WWs. So raised from the dead, based on the zombie-like damage to the face of the one they homed in on.

[Allie56]

53 minutes ago, riley702 said:

8 hours ago, taanja said:

They showed that scene on the "previously on..." right before the episode started. So this casual viewer knew exactly where the Hound and co were.

As I posted at the top of the previous page.

I'll admit it. I watched the "previously" and I saw the scene with the Hound and Arya, and I still had no idea where the BWB were during the episode or whether or not the Hound had known those people. I have only seen all the episodes of the show once, but I didn't make the connection. I confess. 

[DarkRaichu]

5 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Agree regarding Sam and Jorah. 

As for WW, then are we to assume that the giant we saw that looked like Wun Wun was a living baby giant? Definitely not Wun Wun. Weren't there horses too? I clearly need to re-read the books. I don't think the show does a great job of explaining. 

Based on the decay, those are more likely Wights.  The WW look more like a race of Star Trek aliens with their wrinkled skin, but they do not have signs of decay

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

Based on the decay, those are more likely Wights.  The WW look more like a race of Star Trek aliens with their wrinkled skin, but they do not have signs of decay

But I thought they were following the Night King, which WWs did but wights don't? Ha, I really need to learn the difference better...

[riley702]

Wights follow the Night King as well, as was shown at the battle of Hard Home.

[scrb]

Jaime was right, without any more heirs, what's the point of sitting on the Iron Throne?  They live for 20-30 more years at most if they survive the challenges.

Instead of having the new map drawn, Cersei should have been jumping on top of Jaime while she still could bear children -- she references being around 40 -- and get busy.

If she's pissed at Jaime for not getting with the program, then accept Duron's two good hands proposal and pull a black widow on him after getting what she needed out of him.

Instead of demanding that Jon come to KL and bend his knee to her, she should have commanded him to bend her over the table and give them heirs, pronto!

This show has been about succession all along and with no clear succession path, Cersei being on the Iron Throne is just a contrivance until she gets defeated and pays for her deeds.

[Katalina]

Re: Jamie leaving Cersei:

Quote

Ride your shiny white horse down to Dragonstone and join up with your little brother. 

Yes! Join up with the sibling with brains, and take some Lannister soldiers with you. That way Ed Sheeran and Arya can fight on the same side.

Maybe Cersei will have to be killed in a sort of “Orient Express” way: Arya, Olenna, Tyrion, Elaria and a couple of sand snakes, Brienne, Sansa, and who knows, even Jamie, will line up and each take a whack at her.

Quote

The scenes with Beric Dondarrion and Sandor Clegane went on for way too long.

I think it was important to see that Beric is cultivating the Hound for something other than his fighting skills. Why else would he consistently put up with the Hound calling everyone a c**t every other minute? He suspected the Hound has “sight.”

Thanks for all the insights on how the wall could be breached. I remembered the episode when the 3-eyed raven told Bran that that's how the Night King could enter their sanctuary/tree/cave. Makes sense that the NK could now follow Bran south. Damn, everyone needs to get their act together NOW. (I still hope those spells Benjen mentioned work well enough to at least slow the dead army down.)

Seems to me that while Sansa has returned home, the locals may think of her as something of an unknown quantity. After all, everyone doesn't know why she married Tyrion Lannister, then Ramsay Bolton. They only know she did marry them, and they may think of her as not trustworthy, or as a political game-player, rather than as a hostage/pawn. Last season, when Lady Mormont mentioned Sansa's marriages, Sansa said she did what she had to do, and the issue hasn't come up again on the show. But it seems likely there would be many northerners who are withholding liking and support for Sansa, until they know more about her past.

I think Lady Mormont may have credibility due to her mother---didn't she mention (when Jon and Sansa were first petitioning her) that her mother had been a “great fighter”? She was raised to rule and is showing her training!

[Clanstarling]

6 minutes ago, Katalina said:

Re: Jamie leaving Cersei:

Yes! Join up with the sibling with brains, and take some Lannister soldiers with you.

I think Lady Mormont may have credibility due to her mother---didn't she mention (when Jon and Sansa were first petitioning her) that her mother had been a “great fighter”? She was raised to rule and is showing her training!

I'd amend that to "Join up with the sibling with brains AND sense." I think Cersei has brains - she just doesn't have any sense. 

My take on Lady Mormont is the same as yours. 

[DarkRaichu]

39 minutes ago, Katalina said:

I think it was important to see that Beric is cultivating the Hound for something other than his fighting skills. Why else would he consistently put up with the Hound calling everyone a c**t every other minute? He suspected the Hound has “sight.”

Technically the Hound was touched by the Lord of Fire when he was very young (thanks to Mountain).  That burn mark on his face is the proof of that

 

32 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I'd amend that to "Join up with the sibling with brains AND sense." I think Cersei has brains - she just doesn't have any sense.

and a dragon or 3 :P

Cersei isn't as smart as she think she is -- Tyrion L

[enoughcats]

20 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Quote

Kids don't run things just because their parents are dead and they're next in line.

 

 

 

but they do, cause she's doing it. 

Note how well that worked out for Tommen whose Mumsy was alive and not very materal in the classic sense.

[ChipBach]

22 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Note how well that worked out for Tommen whose Mumsy was alive and not very materal in the classic sense.

Lady M ain't no Tommen.  I would say she has already demonstrated a clear focus of the issues and has quickly seen through BS.  (Remember when she nailed the "small talk" during her very first scene?)

I think she is every bit as formidable as Aryasasin and The Queen of Mean.

Edited July 20, 2017 by ChipBach

[CletusMusashi]

We won't really know whether or not Baby Bear is all talk until we see her actually fight. Of course, there's more than one way to fight, I'd be fine with seeing her actively commanding field troops while, recognizing her physical limitations, staying back from the actual fray. I'd also be fine with her weapon of choice being something like a crossbow. But as long as she's just a child bragging about how fearless she is, there's going to be room to question whether she's suicidal or just full of shit. I personally suspct that she's neither of those things, but it might play better if they show rather than tell. At least sneak her into a training montage somewhere.

[Drogo]

Lady Lyanna wasn't worried about Stannis,

Spoiler

wasn't shook by Ramsay,

Spoiler

"I'll pardon these treasonous lords."

and isn't here for any ageist/sexist BS from her elders:  “I don’t plan on knitting by the fire while men fight for me.  I might be smaller, and I might be a girl, but I am every bit a Northerner. And I don’t need your permission to defend the North. We’ll begin training every man, woman, boy, and girl on Bear Island.”

I wonder who she reminded Davos of.

[Lady S.]

20 hours ago, Couver said:

I can't remember. Did the show ever indicate how long Craster had been giving the WW his sons? It would be interesting to try and gauge how many actual WW there are. We've only ever seen 4 together correct? And 3 have been killed on screen (by Sam, Jon, Meera). And those babies would need time to grow....although I suppose the WW could have rapid aging.  I hope the series explores their mythos a bit before they are dealt with. 

Craster claimed Sam Jr. was his 99th son, but we have no idea how long the WWs had been transforming his sons. (I've been assuming he used to just leave the boys out to die of exposure and one day a WW found one. It's harder to imagine him initiating a personal bargain with them.) The most WWs we've ever seen together were 14 or so, when the Night King made his first appearance transforming the last Crasterling. If they'd taken all of Craster's sons, there should be a lot more of them, which is a scary thought. 

 

3 hours ago, Katalina said:

I think Lady Mormont may have credibility due to her mother---didn't she mention (when Jon and Sansa were first petitioning her) that her mother had been a “great fighter”? She was raised to rule and is showing her training!

Yes, she did say that. This scene might have worked a little bit better if she mentioned her mother again. House Mormont having a tradition of warrior women already gives Bear Island some cred to be an example for the rest of the North in this matter. And it makes Lord Glover look worse if he thought this was so unnatural after serving in Robb's army with the previous Lady Mormont. (Something only notable on re-watch is that there actually is a woman warrior in Robb's KitN scene. She's the only woman there besides Catelyn, so I assume it was meant to be Lady Mormont, though the woman looked a bit old to have a daughter this young.)

[taanja]

16 hours ago, riley702 said:

As I posted at the top of the previous page.

Oh sorry --- I was replying to IMONREY who said---Thank you! Ultimately I feel like the entire subplot with the Hound finding this cabin hinged on the audience remembering that episode - how many seasons ago? Three? Four? I know fans can be pretty obsessive about this show but what casual viewer is going to remember that?

[Couver]

1 hour ago, Lady S. said:

Craster claimed Sam Jr. was his 99th son, but we have no idea how long the WWs had been transforming his sons. (I've been assuming he used to just leave the boys out to die of exposure and one day a WW found one. It's harder to imagine him initiating a personal bargain with them.) The most WWs we've ever seen together were 14 or so, when the Night King made his first appearance transforming the last Crasterling. If they'd taken all of Craster's sons, there should be a lot more of them, which is a scary thought. 

 

 

Thank you! I forgot about the ritual of turning the baby. There were a lot of WWs there. I suppose we are just assuming they must turn an infant male. The Night King was a grown man so maybe he has the ability to turn other grown men/women. If that's the case he's likely had years (centuries?) to turn wildlings into WW. A very scary thought. 

[LittleIggy]

I hope Arya gets reunited with her direwolf.

[Casually Observant]

On 7/16/2017 at 7:43 PM, BitterApple said:

I like Sam and Gilly, but I think the repeating cycle of him dishing out soup and collecting bed pans went on too long. I wanted to see more of Arya.

It occurred to me that the whole vomitous montage of images meant something else.  Perhaps all of the Maesters have taken ill due to a food-borne illness. It seemed like a lot of them were ill and bedridden and coughing and pooping watery movements.  I was just waiting for Sam to keel over from becoming ill himself.  But maybe - a bunch of the Maesters will die and Sam will be promoted to Maester simply because he is one of the last men standing.  

Also odd to me was that none of these wise men noticed how sick everyone was in that place and wondered why that was!

Question: were they putting soup in the cleaned bedpan bowls?  It looked that way to me.  Maybe that is the problem!

On 7/16/2017 at 9:53 PM, Calamity Jane said:

Agree this was a terrific episode, especially Arya's revenge on the Freys, with the exception of all that chamber pot/soup pouring in Sam's part.  We only get seven episodes this season, and to have so much of this one taken up with that was upsetting when we all got the point after the first fifteen seconds.  

Well, I loved Arya's revenge on the Freys, but I think there is more to the chamber pot montage that will be revealed later.

On 7/17/2017 at 7:09 AM, Boilergal said:

Lady Mormont and Jorah must be family - anyone know how they are related?

In one podcast on YouTube, someone has a Mormont family lineage chart that shows that Lady Mormont is the youngest of 5 children born to Maege Mormont.  Maege either failed to marry or just failed to reveal the father(s) of her children, thus Lady Mormont still retains the Mormont name as her father is unknown.  

Her mother Maege had only one sibling, Jeor Mormont who was the Lord commander of the Night's Watch when Jon Snow first arrived.  

Jeor Mormont had just one child - you guessed it! It is Jorah Mormont, thus making Jorah a cousin to little Lady Lyanna Mormont.   

On 7/17/2017 at 10:44 AM, iMonrey said:

Given the "previouslies" I take it that the Hound (and Arya) at one point ran into the father and son whose cabin he arrived at in this episode? And he robbed them or something? I don't recall that scene at all - it was too long ago, so the whole subplot was lost on me and lacked any emotional punch.

There is a great little recap of this scene From Season 4, Episode 3, "Breaker of Chains" where The Hound and Arya meet the man and his daughter while watering their horses. The Hound is being obnoxious and Arya apologizes and tells them to forgive her 'father's' behavior. She lies that he was injured in the war and has never been the same since. She says their house was burned down and her mother was killed, appearing very sympathetic. The kind man and his daughter invite them for supper.  

Watch it on YouTube:  'Arya Stark and the Hound meet a farmer in Riverlands' by Dolorous Edd.

On 7/18/2017 at 0:19 PM, iMonrey said:

Agreed. I get as big a kick out of the little Lady of Bear Island as anyone else. But I have a hard time believing these big, tough Northern Lords with their medieval mindsets would pay the slightest bit of attention to this kid. She's not only a girl, she's a kid. That's a double whammy. It's not her personality I find unrealistic, it's the attitude and deference the grown men are paying her I find hard to buy. Jon, sure - he needed her help. But all these other Northern lords? Huh-uh.

I think that the Lady of Bear Island (The island's leader) speaks such wisdom that anyone with a lick of sense would have to listen to her.  She offers strong insight and maturity that is often far more seasoned than the eldest of them with not a wasted word or sentiment.  I enjoy her immensely!

On 7/18/2017 at 1:03 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yeah, I was trying to forget the part about the soup. It makes me wonder if there's any nutritional value at all to the soup given that it comes out pretty much looking the same way as it went in.

I think they are all sick with some sort of e-coli or something from the terrible hygiene in the place.

[Macbeth]

1 hour ago, Casually Observant said:

I think that the Lady of Bear Island (The island's leader) speaks such wisdom that anyone with a lick of sense would have to listen to her.  She offers strong insight and maturity that is often far more seasoned than the eldest of them with not a wasted word or sentiment.  I enjoy her immensely!

I enjoy Lady M as well.  Very much so.  We really need a reminder that for a lot of houses, children are in charge, due to the massive toll that has bled able bodied men for the Game of Thrones.

[Stephanie1216]

I didn't realize until today how many GoT fans, like myself, really hated Ed Sheerens Cameo.  I vaguely even know who that guy is and I just found it a waste of production time and money and as a viewer I found it a waste. With only 13 episodes left, and so many stories hanging out their having a self indulgent celebrity cameo just seems like a waste of time to me.  

For one thing, people are now focusing on Aryas comments that she's going to Kings Landing and I certainly hope she's going to Winterfell like she said she was going to to Jagen when she left Bravos. So which will it be? She has said two different things. I also wanted her to get back her family and even her Direwolf and if she goes South she won't reunite with Nymeria nor will she reunite with Sansa, Bran, or Jon, at Winterfell.

The celebrity cameo just didn't move the plot along. Arya killing the Freys left me with more questions than satisfaction. The Twins and the Bridge is the reason the Red Wedding happened in the first place. With the Freys dead, who currently has the power of the Bridge? Did she get her Uncle Edmure, Lord of River Run and the Tully Army, out of the Freys dungeon? Does Edmure currently control the Twins? (The Lannisters still have River Run) that wasted scene with Ed Sheeren could have addressed these logistical wartime questions that will certainly come up in these last few episodes. 

Some above comments think the Hound scenes were too long. Most of us agree that any Sam scene is too long and him cleaning bedpans is way too long. BUT, the Hound is one of the original GoT characters that actually has an Arc. He is more than he seems and we saw that with Sansa and Arya but they have developed him further. He is looking for his reason for living. Jamie also had a great character arc when he's with Cersai he's one person and when he is away from her he's kinder and has more layers.

Ramsey and Joffrey had no arc, but were simply bad guys, Jon Snow has no Arc but is simply a good guy. Although I'm hoping Jons resurrection and his discovery of his biological parents will give him a deep meaningful character arc. 

[Stephanie1216]

So we all love Little Lady Mormont. She is given great lines and she has delivered them fiercely. However, has anyone else noticed that GoT is making the Men on the show seem like big dummies? 

Im going all the way back to when Asha "tricks" Theon and a couple of soldiers with her nakedness to slip Bran and Riccon out of Winterfell season One. Like men are so stupid a naked woman is going to make them totally forget they are on guard duty.

Dany is the Targarian Queen because her brother was a complete fool. 

Robb gets himself, his wife, baby, mother and entire army killed over a woman he insists he must marry for love (even though his mother warned him to keep his oath and do his duty and marry the Frey girl. He was too stubborn and selfish to do his duty as King)

 

Joffrey, well, not tricked by a woman just mean leaving Tommen who is totally whipped by Marjorie but can't stand up to anyone for any reason.( In the Lannister kids case, Cersai put all her faith in her stupid boys when her daughter should have been the one she groomed to rule) Cersai treated Marcella the way Tywin treated her the exact opposite of what she should have done. anyway leaving another Woman:Queen in charge. Why not Jamie? He has as much right to the Iron Throne as Cersai which is none.

Theon is a traitor dummy and that leaves his sister in charge of the Iron Islands.

 Robert so stupid he Has a drunken fatal accident, Ned so stupid he trusts Littlefinger, Stannis so woman whipped he lets the Red Woman burn his daughter and black magic kills his brother. Renly let's his lover convince him he should be King when he's the younger brother and has no right to be King before Stannis or Princess Shireen.

Tyrion was the only man smart enough to actually ask his father for his birthright of Casterly Rock. He could have married and had children with Sansa. That was smart for all of them, even Sansa would have been better off at the Rock with Lannister children and money than in Winterfell abused by Ramsey. And Tyrion would be a better husband than Robin of the Vale (maybe, who knows how he will turn out.)

my point, why are almost all the men idiots and the women have most of the power now?

Dany, Cersai, Yara

Jon is King in the North isn't Sansa still the Lady of Winterfell and Wardeness of the North? Or wouldn't she have those responsibilities and maybe even called Princess Sansa if her brother is the King? Or Duchess or a higher title than Lady?

Im going to fanboy for a moment. I totally want for about five years to pass this give Lady Lyanna time to grow up and her and Jon Snow the fall in love. Some FanBoys want Brienne and Jamie the hook up and I hate that idea, some FanBoys want Jon and Dany to Hook up and I hate that too because first of all Dany is his Aunt, and second of all they both have boring personalities. It's not like they have the personality of Bronn or Tyrion or Arya. Even Jamie has a great personality when you get him away from Cersai

[Clanstarling]

31 minutes ago, Stephanie1216 said:

The celebrity cameo just didn't move the plot along.

For me, I didn't mind the cameo because a) I loved the song b) don't really know Sheeran that well and thought he was okay. Mostly, though, for me though the scene didn't move the plot along, it was a nice bit that showed that armies are made up of regular folk, and it was important for Arya to see that. I think that small bit of insight will be a factor.  Plus, it gave her an opportunity to enjoy a small bit of fellowship with fellow humans - which she hasn't really had for quite some time.

[GrailKing]

25 minutes ago, Stephanie1216 said:

For one thing, people are now focusing on Aryas comments that she's going to Kings Landing and I certainly hope she's going to Winterfell like she said she was going to to Jagen when she left Bravos. So which will it be? She has said two different things. I also wanted her to get back her family and even her Direwolf and if she goes South she won't reunite with Nymeria nor will she reunite with Sansa, Bran, or Jon, at Winterfell.

The celebrity cameo just didn't move the plot along.

Stop following the cameo, it's the SCENE, ES a fan, Maisie is a fan, it's a nice gesture.

The scene is to remind Arya of family- a boy thinking of his dad on a fishing boat alone, another soldier reminiscing of his wife and their first child, the group sharing food.

Thinking it didn't advance Arya's plot or provide tension on whether she will go darker and kill them just because they were forced to fight the lords war and added not having a hand  in her family's demise, or they kill her to prevent her killing the Queen.

It is a lack of concentration on the viewer not on ES.

[riley702]

14 hours ago, Katalina said:

Maybe Cersei will have to be killed in a sort of “Orient Express” way: Arya, Olenna, Tyrion, Elaria and a couple of sand snakes, Brienne, Sansa, and who knows, even Jamie, will line up and each take a whack at her.

This made me laugh because I had amused myself with a little fantasy scene with everyone saying, "No! She's mine to kill!"; "No! She's mine!"; Arya rips off a face and scowls: "No, dammit! She's on my list!"; Tyrion shouts, "She tried to kill me! I get to kill her!", etc., etc. And then some nobody slinks out of the shadows and whacks her while everyone is squabbling.

[Calamity Jane]

On 7/17/2017 at 7:26 AM, Drogo said:

Yes- he may be halfway made of stone now but his voice is still like sexy garlic butter.

The other voice that sends a little tingle up my spine is Beric Dondarrion's.  

[CletusMusashi]

I thought Shireen was dead. How the hell did she come back as a male pop star?

[Lady S.]

A lot of people apparently hate all scenes that are about characterization more than advancing the plot, even when it's a great character moment. For example, if you didn't care about Sandor's scenes it probably had more to do with not caring about his redemption more than the corpses being unmemorable 1-off characters. The scene was never about them, it was about Sandor's guilt which Thoros got even without ever having watched the s4 adventures of Arya and the Hound (or maybe he was saw them all as a vision in the flames but I doubt it). We've seen Sandor show signs of a soft heart beneath all the barking before when he was saving the Stark sisters, but here he's helping people beyond help just because it was the right thing to do. And we've seen signs of guilt from him before, especially with the hippie preacher last season, but this is the first time he's really acted on his remorse for past victims. What really struck me was not just the grave-digging but his failed attempt at a prayer, when we know he's not really a believer himself. Even without remembering the farmer's piety, that's a sign of just how much he wanted to show them the proper respect. This from the same guy who used to go on about his love of killing and how the shittiness of the world was just a fact of life and one of those facts was the weak not surviving. Just last season he was still claiming his only reason for living was hatred. The old Hound might have felt bad to find those corpses but then he probably would have made some crack about the facts of shitty Westerosi life and left it at that. Even without knowing the specifics of how those corpses were his victims, seeing him bury them and try to offer a prayer at their graveside should be a big change. 

As far as the Arya character moment goes, no one who didn't already know who the long-lost homelyWeasley cousin was would have any reason to find him distracting. One could say he's too well known to be allowed any cameo (I think it would have more distracting if he'd been put in a wig or some other disguise), but it's not like him sitting next to Arya made him the focus of the scene. Blackberry Wine kid and New Father Guy, aka the actual actors, had much more lines than he did, and the only time his face was in frame without Arya's was when he actually was talking to her before she sat down.

Not to toot my own horn too much but I have updated my geeky show-info character guide, and I would not recommend getting your info from the show wiki or youtube videos. Both are sources which freely mix book and show info indiscriminately, which is not always helpful. (The guy who edits the gameofthrones wiki actually hates the show.) 

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, doram said:

Or she married another Mormont, a distant (or not) cousin.

If she was married (seems like a chart would indicate that - but I haven't seen the chart), then perhaps the husband took her name. It's been done before.

I meant to comment on the Sandor scene and the previouslies. I have a habit of fast forwarding through them in general - because the presence of a character or scene is often a spoiler. However, I should learn NOT to do that for the first episode of a season. I hadn't a clue who the dead family was.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Macbeth]

Very well said Lady S.

If anything else - Sandor's scenes with the Brotherhood is the one sure time we might have some actual wit.  Sandor making fun of Thoros's man knot.  Sandor saying last season "Everyone dies , except for that "f***er" there (pointing to Berrion.)"

Plot doesn't mean anything without character development.  So with so little screen time left - given that so much time is being devoted to Sandor and the Brotherhood (criminally underused) means something and will play out later.

[paigow]

8 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

I thought Shireen was dead. How the hell did she come back as a male pop star?

While exiled, Melisandre created Westerosi Idol,,,

[Clanstarling]

5 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

Very well said Lady S.

If anything else - Sandor's scenes with the Brotherhood is the one sure time we might have some actual wit.  Sandor making fun of Thoros's man knot.  Sandor saying last season "Everyone dies , except for that "f***er" there (pointing to Berrion.)"

Plot doesn't mean anything without character development.  So with so little screen time left - given that so much time is being devoted to Sandor and the Brotherhood (criminally underused) means something and will play out later.

I agree. Plot driven stories (for me) are less interesting than character driven stories. If I'm not invested in the characters, I'm not invested in their fates and the outcome of the plot.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Clanstarling

[BitterApple]

I like the character development scenes and that's why I'm bummed they're shortening the last two seasons. I'm afraid everything is going to feel condensed and rushed as the writers try to jam a ton of content into the few remaining episodes. 

[AshleyN]

13 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

For me, I didn't mind the cameo because a) I loved the song b) don't really know Sheeran that well and thought he was okay. Mostly, though, for me though the scene didn't move the plot along, it was a nice bit that showed that armies are made up of regular folk, and it was important for Arya to see that. I think that small bit of insight will be a factor.  Plus, it gave her an opportunity to enjoy a small bit of fellowship with fellow humans - which she hasn't really had for quite some time.

I agree with what you said about the importance of the scene for Arya, and I'd add that it reminded me of a comment I believe I read from one of the writers awhile back where they talked about how, for them, these kinds of smaller, character based scenes are necessary as a reminder of what the stakes are when it comes to the fight against the White Walkers. I mean, we spent so much time watching characters plotting and warring and generally being awful to each other that a person could be forgiven for wondering what would be lost if the White Walkers just took them all out (and I've seen disenchanted viewers making this exact argument). So a scene like this, which is meant to illustrate that (when we get away from the relatively small sample size of nobles that we know) most of Westeros is made of up regular people just trying to live their lives, serves to remind the audience that there's something actually worth saving in this fight.

[FnkyChkn34]

13 hours ago, Stephanie1216 said:

Im going to fanboy for a moment. I totally want for about five years to pass this give Lady Lyanna time to grow up and her and Jon Snow the fall in love. Some FanBoys want Brienne and Jamie the hook up and I hate that idea, some FanBoys want Jon and Dany to Hook up and I hate that too because first of all Dany is his Aunt, and second of all they both have boring personalities. It's not like they have the personality of Bronn or Tyrion or Arya. Even Jamie has a great personality when you get him away from Cersai

Sorry, but I actually snorted out loud... Arya has a personality?  She's just a robot hellbent on revenge at any cost.  For several seasons, it seemed like her only lines were to repeat that stupid hit list.  That's not a personality to me; she's easily one of the most boring on the show.

[hoosiermommy]

Thinking more about the Sansa/John Snow interaction at the meeting of the families, I am even more put out by Sansa than I was previously.  She says she knows what Baelish wants.  If that is true, openly challenging John in that venue in that manner plays right into his hands.  Baelish can't be King unless he can eliminate John Snow.  He can't do that when the Starks are united, but he can certainly do that if the two are divided.  He plays one off the other.  His look after John's final word confirms that Baelish is relishing this division between the two.   It plays right into his hands.

[DarkRaichu]

14 hours ago, Stephanie1216 said:

For one thing, people are now focusing on Aryas comments that she's going to Kings Landing and I certainly hope she's going to Winterfell like she said she was going to to Jagen when she left Bravos. So which will it be? She has said two different things. I also wanted her to get back her family and even her Direwolf and if she goes South she won't reunite with Nymeria nor will she reunite with Sansa, Bran, or Jon, at Winterfell.

Why can't she take the long way via the south before going home to the north?  Both statements can still be true.  She did not say she was going directly from Bravos to Winterfell.

[Stephanie1216]

40 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Sorry, but I actually snorted out loud... Arya has a personality?  She's just a robot hellbent on revenge at any cost.  For several seasons, it seemed like her only lines were to repeat that stupid hit list.  That's not a personality to me; she's easily one of the most boring on the show.

Yeah ok LOL I guess Arya doesn't have a great personality. Maybe I'm giving her too many credit. I just really liked her and the Hound together that season. Maybe he's the one with the good personality.

[Stephanie1216]

14 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Stop following the cameo, it's the SCENE, ES a fan, Maisie is a fan, it's a nice gesture.

The scene is to remind Arya of family- a boy thinking of his dad on a fishing boat alone, another soldier reminiscing of his wife and their first child, the group sharing food.

Thinking it didn't advance Arya's plot or provide tension on whether she will go darker and kill them just because they were forced to fight the lords war and added not having a hand  in her family's demise, or they kill her to prevent her killing the Queen.

It is a lack of concentration on the viewer not on ES.

No I understood the scene, "even Lannisters can have nice foot soldiers." I don't need that lesson neither does Arya. It was an unnecessary scene just to accommodate a celebrity cameo.

That scene wouldn't have been in the show at all if it weren't for the celebrity cameo. Arya just killed all the Freys, yet we don't know who has control of the Twins or the bridge that actually caused the Red Wedding in the first place. We also don't know if Arya released her Uncle Edmure from Walders dungeons. Plot holes. Write the scene with the celebrity but answer some questions during that scene. 

I suppose I am also wrong for hating the shitty Sam scenes. Too long too much, we got it, he had to do some grunt work. I think next week he's actually accomplishing something. And Davos lived at Dragonstone wouldn't he know that Dragonglass is there? I want Sam to cure Jorah, learn how to forge Dragonglass, discover Jons parentage, and discover if Jons Birth is legit. I don't want to see him gagging and cleaning shit holes.

We only have a few episodes left in the series and don't have time for celebrity cameos that don't move the story along. Last season was so good week after week, I just expected more from the season opener I guess.

[Stephanie1216]

What exactly are Danys plans for the Dorthraki? I mean after she uses their fighting men on the battlefield.

They are nomadic Horse tribesman. Where are they going to live in Westeros? They aren't going to rape and raid the Westorosi people. Their way of life is going to be turned upside down and they don't speak the common tongue.

The only idea I can think of is that Dany will make one or two of the Men (who can speak the common tongue) a lordship and castle/castles. And then some the others put down roots under those lords and their land. They know how to raise and bred horses so I suppose that is how they will make a living?

If Dany has no plans for them after she uses them  in Westeros, how selfish is it of her to destroy their way of life the way she did?

[GrailKing]

42 minutes ago, Stephanie1216 said:

No I understood the scene, "even Lannisters can have nice foot soldiers." I don't need that lesson neither does Arya. It was an unnecessary scene just to accommodate a celebrity cameo.

That scene wouldn't have been in the show at all if it weren't for the celebrity cameo. Arya just killed all the Freys, yet we don't know who has control of the Twins or the bridge that actually caused the Red Wedding in the first place. We also don't know if Arya released her Uncle Edmure from Walders dungeons. Plot holes. Write the scene with the celebrity but answer some questions during that scene. 

I suppose I am also wrong for hating the shitty Sam scenes. Too long too much, we got it, he had to do some grunt work. I think next week he's actually accomplishing something. And Davos lived at Dragonstone wouldn't he know that Dragonglass is there? I want Sam to cure Jorah, learn how to forge Dragonglass, discover Jons parentage, and discover if Jons Birth is legit. I don't want to see him gagging and cleaning shit holes.

We only have a few episodes left in the series and don't have time for celebrity cameos that don't move the story along. Last season was so good week after week, I just expected more from the season opener I guess.

We don't know that at all !

From a humanizing point of view it was right on point, and it would not matter if ES was in it or not.

I've said the same a tad too long.

Don't look at the cameo, this line alone tells me you DIDN'T understand the scene.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Sorry, but I actually snorted out loud... Arya has a personality?  She's just a robot hellbent on revenge at any cost.  For several seasons, it seemed like her only lines were to repeat that stupid hit list.  That's not a personality to me; she's easily one of the most boring on the show.

I lkie all the Starks+ Sansa-Jon-Ned in that order, I have Arya just above Rickon, I don't think she's boring, I think she's tragic and I always liked political intrigue over teenage ninja assassin who can kill and survive, with or without consequences.

[scrb]

1 hour ago, Stephanie1216 said:

Yeah ok LOL I guess Arya doesn't have a great personality. Maybe I'm giving her too many credit. I just really liked her and the Hound together that season. Maybe he's the one with the good personality.

I don't know how prominent she is in the books but she stood out in the first season, far more than Bran or Sansa.

She had energy and expressed zest that neither of them did.  Maybe it's a difference from the books or maybe among the young actors, the one playing Arya shone the most.

The show seemed to showcase her, from the key scenes of the boy who was punished for her beating Joffrey to her training with that sword guy at Kings Landing.  Of course her reaction to Ned's execution was among the most visceral.

 

But yeah she's monomaniacal about that list and the joy she expressed seems long gone.

As far as the revenge mode she's in, as far as she knows, Jon and Sansa are dead or their situations look bleak.  Maybe Sansa is still a prisoner at KL and maybe Jon is still with the NW or somewhere even worse.  Maybe if she knew that they'd reconquered Winterfell, she'd go there first rather than robotically pursue payback, allowing her to feel something other than rage or burning desire to kill.

[ChipBach]

5 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I lkie all the Starks+ Sansa-Jon-Ned in that order, I have Arya just above Rickon, I don't think she's boring, I think she's tragic and I always liked political intrigue over teenage ninja assassin who can kill and survive, with or without consequences.

I have to put Aryasasin ahead of all of them personality wise.  She was a pretty funny pre-teen.  I am not sure the scene with her and the darlings of the Westeros army is to simply allow for "decent" soldiers so she would question her goofy mass-murdering ways.  There was something a little too decent with ALL of those dudes.  They may have a darker purpose. 

Edited July 21, 2017 by ChipBach

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, ChipBach said:

I have to put Aryasasin ahead of all of them personality wise.  She was a pretty funny pre-teen.  I am not sure the scene with her and the darlings of the Westeros army is to simply allow for "decent" soldiers to question her goofy mass-murdering ways.  There was something a little too decent with ALL of those dudes.  They may have a darker purpose. 

Either visually or verbally we should find out.

[Katsullivan]

1 hour ago, Stephanie1216 said:

What exactly are Danys plans for the Dorthraki? I mean after she uses their fighting men on the battlefield.

They are nomadic Horse tribesman. Where are they going to live in Westeros? They aren't going to rape and raid the Westorosi people. Their way of life is going to be turned upside down and they don't speak the common tongue.

The only idea I can think of is that Dany will make one or two of the Men (who can speak the common tongue) a lordship and castle/castles. And then some the others put down roots under those lords and their land. They know how to raise and bred horses so I suppose that is how they will make a living?

If Dany has no plans for them after she uses them  in Westeros, how selfish is it of her to destroy their way of life the way she did?

How has Dany destroyed their way of life? They can always return to Essos and continue their nomadic existence of sacking & raping. I'm sure a great deal of the Dothraki (women) would prefer to settle in Westeros and live a less exciting life. As for not speaking the common tongue - history has shown us that that has never hindered immigration/integration. The Dothraki presence in Westeros will strengthen the country, not weaken it. 

After the War(s), Dany will do what she has always done - she will give them a choice. She did that to the Unsullied. She did that to the ex-slaves at Mereen. She did that to the Dothraki who followed her out of Vaes Dothrak. 

[Calamity Jane]

I was really hoping we'd see Gendry this time.  I have an image of him rowing towards shore, only to spot Melisandre there, frantically about-facing and rowing back out to sea for another few years.  

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

Please keep discussion in here to episode 1. Speculation on future events and discussion of past events should be taken to an appropriate topic.

Thanks.

[Macbeth]

D&D has commented that they didn't intend to open with Arya's vengeance.  But David Bradley was so good they knew they had to open the show with his performance. 

So I thought what was supposed to be the opening?  Then I remember the second scene with the dead marching south and then Bran being allowed through the the Wall's gate by clueless Edd.  The show was to start with Bran's entry to book end Dany's arrival.  One a crippled teen finally finding shelter for him and his sole surviving companion.  The other a Queen coming home escorted by her army and dragons. Both events have huge consequences for Westeros,

5 hours ago, hoosiermommy said:

Thinking more about the Sansa/John Snow interaction at the meeting of the families, I am even more put out by Sansa than I was previously.  She says she knows what Baelish wants.  If that is true, openly challenging John in that venue in that manner plays right into his hands.  Baelish can't be King unless he can eliminate John Snow.  He can't do that when the Starks are united, but he can certainly do that if the two are divided.  He plays one off the other.  His look after John's final word confirms that Baelish is relishing this division between the two.   It plays right into his hands.

Sansa is a Stark through and through.  Direct and honest.   Starks arguing about how to best show loyalty to their Bannermen is pretty much par for the course.  They are never any good at playing games, which is why the North has (for the most part) been loyal to that family for generations. 

[RedHawk]

I had no idea that was Ed Sheeran since I don't know his music, so to me he was just a lad with a nice voice in a group of soldiers who were nice lads who made Arya smile for the first time in ages.

I'm not worried about how many episodes we have left.

I thought the bedpan/soup bowl montage was hilarious in a disgusting way. The bowls and the contents did begin to look alike. I thought Sam had lost a bit of weight, and thought, no wonder.

I have only seen most episodes once so would call myself a casual fan, and I totally remembered the man and daughter in the cabin and that the Hound murdered them and took their silver. Also, it was in the "previously on GoT" intro, right? Also, the Hound was looking so odd and guilty that I was certain the two skeletons were the ones he had killed.

The Hound and Euron should get together and fire off zingers at their enemies.

It won't surprise me if Gilly is the one to find a greyscale cure in one of the "forbidden" books. The one she was reading was about dragons, IIRC.

Edited July 22, 2017 by RedHawk