Fix The Show

[MrYunis]

I did read that article a couple days back. Sounds like a very bad idea. 30 contestants is way too much. If you have that many players, I feel like you have to make the season longer as well (at least 50 days).

It could work, but not if a whole tribe is voted out in the first episode. All 30 contestants should be playing on equal terms and then play it out in a normal Survivor season. Then it might succeed I think.

[azshadowwalker]

I actually like it, sans the 37 day re-entry and only with returnees. Being able to steal from the eliminated tribe works if you already know skillsets. The merge re-entry is fine. It's just a waste to come in on day 37, when there's no time to integrate. 

[MissEwa]

8 hours ago, MrYunis said:

I did read that article a couple days back. Sounds like a very bad idea. 30 contestants is way too much. If you have that many players, I feel like you have to make the season longer as well (at least 50 days).

It could work, but not if a whole tribe is voted out in the first episode. All 30 contestants should be playing on equal terms and then play it out in a normal Survivor season. Then it might succeed I think.

I'm not sure how what you're suggesting isn't just Survivor with three tribes of ten though? In the Ghost Island concept ten (or however many players) aren't competing, they're just stranded not sure whether they will even get a chance to compete. There are only 20 players in the game to start, and aside from the two re-entries, the eliminations work as usual, so it doesn't need extra time. 

I don't have tweaks for this because for me it really is just too far from Survivor. It's a game that could be interesting. But it's not Survivor. From an episode-quality and editing perspective, I think it would be a mess. It'd need to be returnees because you wouldn't have enough time to get to know all these people, but I feel like it would really piss off the ten Ghost Island returnees and potentially end up limiting their pool of willing returnees afterwards - the good, player players might be like 'yeah, not risking signing up for a 1 in 3 chance of not actually getting to play, sorry'. 

[azshadowwalker]

4 hours ago, MissEwa said:

I feel like it would really piss off the ten Ghost Island returnees and potentially end up limiting their pool of willing returnees afterwards - the good, player players might be like 'yeah, not risking signing up for a 1 in 3 chance of not actually getting to play, sorry'. 

I actually think some of them would love it. Take Ozzy, for example. The survival aspect is what he loves. Rupert prefers the survival part of the game. Wiggles thought that's what she was originally signing up for. Those are just three off the top of my head. 

I don't think it's anymore "not Survivor" than throwing a dozen HII into the game or holding redemption competitions, either. 

I will grant that the editing would be difficult, though. But, really, they already have seasons with 3 tribes and people already get ignored, so it's not a deal breaker for me. 

Edited June 20, 2017 by azshadowwalker
Fix autocorrect's misspelling of Ozzy's name

[MissEwa]

55 minutes ago, azshadowwalker said:

I don't think it's anymore "not Survivor" than throwing a dozen HII into the game or holding redemption competitions, either. 

I will grant that the editing would be difficult, though. But, really, they already have seasons with 3 tribes and people already get ignored, so it's not a deal breaker for me. 

I think there's a reason their flirtations with redemption/outcasts etc. never last, and while I hate how many idols/advantages they fling around the game is still the game. And part of that game is that to win, you have to not only avoid being voted out at every tribal council you attend (and you have to attend at least the half of them that happen post-merge), but you also have to vote people out, and then convince those same people to give you a million dollars. In the Ghost Island game, your fate in the game could be decided wholly by your success and failure at challenges, and you could theoretically enter the game at Day 37 without casting a single vote for anybody, get through to FTC and win because you're the only person there that didn't have anything to do with voting out most of the jury. Like I said: it's an interesting game, but it's not Survivor, to me - I have problems with RI, especially post-merge RI, for the same reason.

I actually like three-tribe seasons because I find it easier to get to know players when they're in smaller groups, but three tribes of ten is different to three tribes of six. But of course YMMV. 

[treeofdreams]

I have an idea for a theme for one of the seasons...

A cast of all business executives.  See how well they deal with this situation, whether their business skills and smarts work here against one another...see what happens when everyone in the cast is used to being in charge.

The business world is sometimes referred to as a jungle.  Here it is for real!

Edited July 22, 2017 by treeofdreams

[SVNBob]

Re-watched the first couple of episodes of Cook Islands (the Racially divided season) a little while ago.  At the end of episode 2, a potential theme was brought up.  Tribes divided by preferred music genre.  The basic list would likely be Country vs Rock vs Hip-Hop, but other genres could easily be swapped in.  Except for purely instrumental genres.  Hard to share favorite pieces without instruments.  And this leads to some of the rewards being related to the music, like a boombox with a selection of CDs for each genre.

Of course, they'd never do this, since they'd have to get clearance rights for any songs performed.  But it's a tribal set up that makes as much sense as several past ones, and more sense than the gender and/or age divides.

[LadyChatts]

I've been re-watching Gabon, and am past the point where Sugar found the idol.  I'm not necessarily a fan of EI itself, though it did provide it's moments when it was in use (I'll always remember Candice breaking down when she repeatedly got sent to EI, or Adam coming some close to those nice cushy rewards, and instead finding himself in the pouring rain on the island).  But what I do miss is EI made it more of a challenge to actually find the idol.  Sugar had to go through several clues to find it.  Not just reach in a tree trunk, and there it was.  If they want to make this show so idol heavy, at least make it a challenge finding it.  I also liked the concept in Gabon where they could pick a clue or comfort.  Of course everyone was going to pick the clue first, but I liked that there was another option.  And since Sugar found it on her first visit there, she could live it up in the Sugar shack.  

Although nowadays, another option opposed to picking an idol clue would probably be a second legacy advantage, or guaranteed safety until the final 4.   

[treeofdreams]

If they want to keep the older players on longer (which many of us would appreciate!) here is a suggestion:

Divide the players into tribes that reflect actual roles that might be in a real tribe.  Tribal Elders, Warriors, Hunters, Shamans, whatever young tribal members are called...that sort of thing.

That would at least give the "elders" a chance to get farther in the game and prove their worth.

[Wings]

On 9/29/2017 at 2:47 PM, treeofdreams said:

If they want to keep the older players on longer (which many of us would appreciate!) here is a suggestion:

Divide the players into tribes that reflect actual roles that might be in a real tribe.  Tribal Elders, Warriors, Hunters, Shamans, whatever young tribal members are called...that sort of thing.

That would at least give the "elders" a chance to get farther in the game and prove their worth.

The way to keep older people in the game, if that is the goal,  is to have the first have the first challenge a True or False test.  

1. John Lennon was shot as he entered the subway. 

2. Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald.

3. Steve Jobs introduced the first computer in 1975.  

You get the gist. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by wings707

[KimberStormer]

"Older" people do not get voted out first anymore, so it's a solution to a problem that has already been fixed naturally.  The last few first boots: Ciera, Rachel (one of the youngest on Takali), Darnell, Vytas, So, Nadiya, and David Samson from Cagayan, who is the first one we can call an "older" person, and he was such a total slimeball that I think we can say his ouster had little to do with his age.

[simplyme]

The way to have more people of any particular demographic last longer is to cast more of them. It's not unusual for people to unconsciously favor the familiar. (Apparently even to the point where there is something known as the name-letter effect* where people prefer mates with the same first or last initials or to live someplace with a name similar to theirs.) Since Survivor tends to cast white 20-somethings as the majority most seasons, I'm guessing white 20-somethings have a slight edge in the social game.

Notice I said slight. This isn't a hard and fast rule.

*Name-letter effect article in Psychologist World:

 https://www.psychologistworld.com/emotion/name-letter-effect-attraction

Edited October 3, 2017 by simplyme

[SVNBob]

In the RHAP thread:

7 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I've seen Jeff say this new twist is a combo of people having to earn their way to the end and to eliminate goats being taken to the end.  Yet, the very twist goes against those two things.  If he really wants people to earn it, why not scrap the final challenge and have everyone go to fire?

Fire doesn't even need to enter into it.  All they'd need to do is change the FIC so that everyone "wins immunity" except the one in last place.  Repetitive task ones, like most of the recent FICs (including the latest one) seem the easiest to fit into this format, but I think this could be done with practically any challenge, but with some minor tweaking.

Endurance challenges could either take place at TC (flashing back to S6 for that) with the first to fail getting eliminated, or possibly run in separate, individual locations with all the F4 going until they fail (going the Solitary route), and Peachy announcing the times and thus the loser at TC in front of everyone.  The latter could also be done with obstacle courses and puzzles (or the usual Survivor combination of the two).

[peachmangosteen]

I think that would be the thing that finally got me to quit watching.

[KimberStormer]

Perhaps on Ghost Island they will swap out the Survivor rulebook for that of the Real World Road Rules Challenge.  They can even cast The Miz, why not.

[Lantern7]

The Challenge is throwing in folks from other reality shows, including Big Brother. I think it'll devolve to Battle of the Viacom Stars in five years. Seriously don't give a shit about Big Brother folks on Survivor. If Burnett shuts out Racers after Natalie's win, I wouldn't be that bugged.

Day 38 format introduced? Bullshit. I know that the "regular" options are 3-1 or 2-2 then fire tiebreaker, but Ben should have been out. I was okay with him, but wasn't Chrissy's win supposed to have her take the biggest obstacle out of her way? Then came the twist, she got to bring in Ryan the goat, and Devon couldn't hold off Ben. Come to think of it, maybe two people up fro the win is best, especially since we've never had a tie vote since going to Final 3.

I know that spoilers abound, but is a live reading and Reunion necessary? Make the finale three hours, then dedicate 60-90 minutes the following week to a reunion, either live or taped. Also, I would have whomever emcees the Reunion to interview each player for at least five minutes, then air those online. This way, everybody would be covered, even if the host spend time on more "important" people. I'd say Probst's name, but he probably couldn't tell you the names of those out before the merge.

[LadyChatts]

8 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

The Challenge is throwing in folks from other reality shows, including Big Brother. I think it'll devolve to Battle of the Viacom Stars in five years. Seriously don't give a shit about Big Brother folks on Survivor. If Burnett shuts out Racers after Natalie's win, I wouldn't be that bugged.

Day 38 format introduced? Bullshit. I know that the "regular" options are 3-1 or 2-2 then fire tiebreaker, but Ben should have been out. I was okay with him, but wasn't Chrissy's win supposed to have her take the biggest obstacle out of her way? Then came the twist, she got to bring in Ryan the goat, and Devon couldn't hold off Ben. Come to think of it, maybe two people up fro the win is best, especially since we've never had a tie vote since going to Final 3.

I know that spoilers abound, but is a live reading and Reunion necessary? Make the finale three hours, then dedicate 60-90 minutes the following week to a reunion, either live or taped. Also, I would have whomever emcees the Reunion to interview each player for at least five minutes, then air those online. This way, everybody would be covered, even if the host spend time on more "important" people. I'd say Probst's name, but he probably couldn't tell you the names of those out before the merge.

I was thinking the other day, why don't they do an extended reunion online?  Or start the reunion on CBS and continue it online?  It's CA time so it's still early enough for them to finish and get the interviews done that come after the show.  If Probst is really that tired of hosting it and can't be bothered to at least acknowledge the other 14/15 players onstage, then he needs to let someone else do it.  I can never see enough of Malcolm, and I remember he did some backstage interviews for CBS after the finale a few times (I think for Second Chances and Worlds Apart?)  Anyway, whatever season it was, I was impressed.  

I'd be fine with them going back to a final 2.  I don't think a final 3 is anymore suspenseful anymore.  This year was the first year in a long time where the winner didn't seem obvious, and even during the finale I was back and forth between Ben and Chrissy.  And I actually thought Aubry was going to win KR, but in hindsight Michele's win wasn't shocking.  I miss the days when they read the result right then and there at the FTC.  Spoilers never get leaked out unless it's a returning player season anyway, and with the contracts they sign, I don't think they'd have any worries.  I agree with the poster in another thread that said they all likely know who won anyway by that point, or whether there will be a tie, so what's the big mystery to them.  

One of my friends that watches the show and is more of a casual viewer asked if I would have had a problem with the twist if it didn't benefit Ben.  The problem was, Ben found 3 idols in a row, then when it looks like he's finally out, he gets a reprieve.  And Devon was the one who had time to practice for it (but instead thought the Survivor Gods were telling him not to).  But I still would have had an issue with, it just didn't help that it seemed like it was to keep Ben in the game.  I don't know what the rules are in terms of the show having to disclose what they are putting in/taking out and whether they have the right to decide last minute for any additions.  Since this is a game show for a million dollars, I'd have to assume they have their own rules to follow.

[SVNBob]

10 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

They can even cast The Miz, why not.

Between his WWE career (seriously.  The fanboy did ascend.) and pregnant wife (that he met in the WWE), he's not likely to show up on anything Challenge-like for a long time.  He will show up on E! though.

[KimberStormer]

WWE is about as legit as what Survivor is turning into, is what I mean!

10 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

One of my friends that watches the show and is more of a casual viewer asked if I would have had a problem with the twist if it didn't benefit Ben. 

I think this line is so bizarre.  Of course I would.  Ben is great, I like Ben.  It's like Yul -- I like him, he's a good player, nevertheless his win is total bullshit thanks to his idol working at F4.

I don't feel that way about Parvati, Tony, or whoever else benefitted from a twist in how many people were going to FTC, even though I dislike Tony (I like Ben so much more than Tony) because there was still a vote.  The game is voting.  Woo and Amanda got to vote.  Both Parv and Tony got them to vote wrong (controversial opinion, but I bet Amanda does better against Cirie than Parvati, and if you believe that Cirie is unbeatable at FTC then Amanda had already lost anyway.)  That's the game.  Not "whoops our favorite guy is about to lose, just like Malcolm and Terry, let's make up some bullshit to save him."  That's not the game.

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

The game is voting. 

Right! This was such a fundamental change in the game. That's why it's different then going from F3 to F2 or vice versa. If it had been told to the players before the start, maybe it would have been easier to take. I would personally still hate it, but it wouldn't have felt like the completely unfair bullshit it felt like if the players knew about it all along. Personally I don't think I can ever be convinced it wasn't just an on-the-fly attempt to give Ben another shot at the finals.

[LadyChatts]

11 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

WWE is about as legit as what Survivor is turning into, is what I mean!

I think this line is so bizarre.  Of course I would.  Ben is great, I like Ben.  It's like Yul -- I like him, he's a good player, nevertheless his win is total bullshit thanks to his idol working at F4.

I don't feel that way about Parvati, Tony, or whoever else benefitted from a twist in how many people were going to FTC, even though I dislike Tony (I like Ben so much more than Tony) because there was still a vote.  The game is voting.  Woo and Amanda got to vote.  Both Parv and Tony got them to vote wrong (controversial opinion, but I bet Amanda does better against Cirie than Parvati, and if you believe that Cirie is unbeatable at FTC then Amanda had already lost anyway.)  That's the game.  Not "whoops our favorite guy is about to lose, just like Malcolm and Terry, let's make up some bullshit to save him."  That's not the game.

I saw some memes being posted on other sites comparing Survivor to the WWE after the finale, so that's funny you bring it up.

My friend is a casual fan, so I'm not surprised she would say that.  Whereas I get worked up over a silly reality show and an outcome that won't effect me in the least at the end of the day, she's part of the inner circle who still watches that just shrugs it off.  Truth is, even if it were Devon that was lucky enough to get 3 idols in a row and a fire tie breaker hail mary sent to him when he was about to be voted off, I'd feel the same way.  It would just taint his win too much.  Ben's a Marine, but was it the PTSD story line that sold TPTB to try and turn him into a winner?  I mean, I'm grateful Ben shared his experience and the show took time to talk about it at the reunion show.  I believe mental illness is still very much a stigma for many, and misunderstood because there can be so many types, causes, and triggers.  But if it wasn't for that part of his story, would they have cared?  

I like the other examples you use.  Since idols were still in their early stages, I kind of can't blame TPTB for letting the idol go to the final 4.  I don't know if they were expecting that, and those idiots could have voted for Yul or someone else just to get the idol out of play, even if it meant sacrificing one of their own.  I'm not surprised it was after that season that they began having idols be used before the vote.  In Parvati and Tony's case, I don't believe either season was meant to have a final 2, it just worked out that way due to quitters/med evacs.  I think Tony was going to win regardless if it was just him and Woo or Woo and Kass alongside him.  Parvati/Cirie/Amanda has always been interesting for me.  I don't know that Amanda would have beat Cirie.  She would have no doubt had James/Ozzy for sure, but if Parvati was on the jury, I don't know who she would have voted for between the two.  And I believe she likely would have influenced Natalie and Alexis to vote for whoever she was voting for, which would leave Jason/Erik/Eliza.  

[Nashville]

On 12/24/2017 at 8:57 AM, peachmangosteen said:

Right! This was such a fundamental change in the game. That's why it's different then going from F3 to F2 or vice versa. If it had been told to the players before the start, maybe it would have been easier to take. I would personally still hate it, but it wouldn't have felt like the completely unfair bullshit it felt like if the players knew about it all along.

Prior notice kinda goes against the whole notion of a "surprise twist", doesn't it?  ;>

 

On 12/24/2017 at 8:57 AM, peachmangosteen said:

Personally I don't think I can ever be convinced it wasn't just an on-the-fly attempt to give Ben another shot at the finals.

This is a point on which I think we'll have to agree to disagree.  

1. Excepting things like adjustments for unexpectedly high volumes of player dropouts or medevacs, I doubt there's anything happening on Day 39 which wasn't planned well of advance of the first day's shooting.  On-the-fly is simply not cost-effective, and I doubt the beancounters would OK anything just to accommodate anybody's personal preferences - even Production's.
2. Unless one contends the Survivor Production crew was putting down money with a bookie in Vegas who was giving long odds on Ben to win this season, I simply don't see any upside for Production to go out of its way to sacrifice the show's long-term credibility for the benefit of one contestant.  The show's priorities go way beyond any single player OR single season.  Survivor has spent the last 18 years building a reputation based upon its status as the longest-running reality show; they're proud of that rep, and it pays for them in selling advertising slots on the season's episodes.  How does tying the show up in knots for the sole purpose of giving Ben Driebergen a check advance the show's interests?

Personally, I don't see any rationale in Production screwing up their own meal ticket to benefit a one-off contestant - but hey, maybe that's just me.  :)

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, Nashville said:

Personally, I don't see any rationale in Production screwing up their own meal ticket to benefit a one-off contestant - but hey, maybe that's just me.  :)

Almost everything Probst has ever said tells me he would certainly do what he can to try to ensure his faves will make it/he will get what he wants out of the game. He basically outright said that was the reason they introduced this twist!

I don't think it's so much about Ben himself, but about the type of contestant Probst likes/the type of winner he wants from the game.

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Almost everything Probst has ever said tells me he would certainly do what he can to try to ensure his faves will make it/he will get what he wants out of the game. He basically outright said that was the reason they introduced this twist!

I don't think it's so much about Ben himself, but about the type of contestant Probst likes/the type of winner he wants from the game.

I think it’s that and going along with them wanting a story.  Ben has PTSD, Adam’s mother was fighting cancer at the time, Jeremy had a baby on the way...you could even argue Mike’s story was simply being an underdog who went rogue from his alliance and needed those immunities to get to the end.  It’s why I kind of get a bad taste in my mouth when some of these subjects are talked about and championed by the show.   I’m glad that they are willing to cover issues like PTSD or donate Survivor items to charity.  But I can’t help thinking back to Brandon’s meltdown (and Dawn’s for that matter), or Varner outing Zeke, and think that this show can’t help itself in being explotive.

I remember the theory floating around about Varner and how he was told about Zeke being a trans male, and that they got him worked up and then poorly edited the TC.  TPTB wanted it to be known that Zeke was trans, and since Zeke didn’t want to be known solely as the trans male player, TPTB did what they had to do to get that out there officially.  Whether that theory is true or not I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be shocked. 

Edited December 26, 2017 by LadyChatts

[Superpole2000]

The final four twist doesn't bother me so much. It's the abundance of idols being used late in the game that bothers me. With fewer people left in the game, idols become so much more influential. It just destroys the power of voting, alliances, social games, etc. and makes the game a scavenger hunt. I also think the drama of someone playing an idol is lost in the shuffle now. So many idols get played that I barely even react to them anymore.

If the show is desperate to keep so many idols in play then can they please distribute them differently? The scavenger hunt idea is played out and makes for horrible television.

[MissEwa]

I don't hate idols and I think some advantages are interesting, but there are way too many. I like the idea of one idol per starting camp (not buried in the same spot at each one, because tribe shuffles), and once it's played it's played. No merge idols. No re-hiding. Currently it feels like idols get played all the time because they'll be rehidden once they are - and so often, especially recently, you get the same person finding them, over and over. I feel like just having one, and the knowledge that there's just one, brings more strategy into it, both in terms of when/how to play it - do you play it pre-merge so it's gone, or use it as a tool to cement an alliance and save it for after the merge? - and attempts to flush it - do you *want* to flush it pre-merge, or is it better to leave it in play and hopefully have it benefit you later? 

Also, if they're keeping this F4 fire twist like they say they are, then I think idols/advantages should stop at F6. That way there is still ONE tribal where you have to get through on your gameplay. Maybe make it even more interesting by having no F5 immunity challenge. It's just a vote and everyone is at risk. 

Edited December 27, 2017 by MissEwa

[Kel Varnsen]

On 26/12/2017 at 4:17 AM, Nashville said:

Unless one contends the Survivor Production crew was putting down money with a bookie in Vegas who was giving long odds on Ben to win this season, I simply don't see any upside for Production to go out of its way to sacrifice the show's long-term credibility for the benefit of one contestant.  The show's priorities go way beyond any single player OR single season.  Survivor has spent the last 18 years building a reputation based upon its status as the longest-running reality show; they're proud of that rep, and it pays for them in selling advertising slots on the season's episodes.  How does tying the show up in knots for the sole purpose of giving Ben Driebergen a check advance the show's interests?

Personally, I don't see any rationale in Production screwing up their own meal ticket to benefit a one-off contestant - but hey, maybe that's just me.  :)

I don't see it as them changing things for a player just because they like him or her, but I can absolutely see them changing things on the fly if they think it will make a more entertaining season. And if they think that a certain person at final tribal will make it more entertaining and grab more viewers I can buy them making changes they feel they need to make. Then again I also firmly believe that the Redemption Island was taylor made to give Rob his best possible chance of winning and if they are going to do that anything is on the table.

[LadyChatts]

I never cared for Exile Island much, but I'd be fine if they brought that back if they want to have 50 million idols.  At least it would be more of a random draw who would find them based on who was sent there.  Especially if they knew they were re-hidden, it's unlikely Ben would have kept getting sent there to have a chance in finding them.

But since that might interfere with the producers possibly nudging certain players in the direction of the idols, I can see why they have them at camp (or hide them at a challenge if they don't like that person as much).

[Lamb18]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 0:54 AM, SVNBob said:

Fire doesn't even need to enter into it.  All they'd need to do is change the FIC so that everyone "wins immunity" except the one in last place.  Repetitive task ones, like most of the recent FICs (including the latest one) seem the easiest to fit into this format, but I think this could be done with practically any challenge, but with some minor tweaking.

Maybe they could have a French fry race like the one on Amazing Race.

[Angeltoes]

Put their names on their buffs for our benefit.  The season is usually half over before I can put face to name.

[piequinn35]

Quote

ire doesn't even need to enter into it.  All they'd need to do is change the FIC so that everyone "wins immunity" except the one in last place.  Repetitive task ones, like most of the recent FICs (including the latest one) seem the easiest to fit into this format, but I think this could be done with practically any challenge, but with some minor tweaking.

 

On 1/12/2018 at 5:28 AM, Lamb18 said:

Maybe they could have a French fry race like the one on Amazing Race.

Or like in Masterchef, final 4 do a challenge, the winner of round 1 goes to F3, the other 3 go to round 2 different challenge, winner goes to F3, the last 2 go to round 3 different challenge, winner goes to F3, loser goes to jury.

[TVFan1]

NO hidden immunity idols OR advantages in one season would be nice.

[EllenB]

I have a fantasy of being able to mute Probst and instead hear Penner and Cirie doing the commentary.  I can dream.

[MerBearHou]

My suggestion:  absolutely no whispering or chit chat at Tribal before voting.  I hate it!

[KimberStormer]

Why do people hate that so much?  It gets people really exercised, but I don't understand why.

[LadyChatts]

3 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Why do people hate that so much?  It gets people really exercised, but I don't understand why.

I don’t like it for two reasons.  The first is,as a viewer, I want to hear what’s going on at TC.  I also don’t think it’s fair to the castaways to not be able to speak up or defend themselves if their name is thrown around.  It’s like”go directly to TC and just vote”.  Clearly it might make its way back to them, but I feel kind of cheated as a viewer not to be able to hear everyone’s thoughts.    

The other reason is now, I feel like castaways are doing it more for the sake of doing it just for show.  

And that stupid game of telephone cost Malcolm and saved Sierra.

[Lamb18]

The main reason I don't like it is when there's a jury. I feel the jury should be able to hear everything that's going on at tribal council. Otherwise, what's the point of having a jury?

[navelgazer]

I detest, hate, loathe, abhor, despise, deplore, and dislike the random-yet-every-episode-buff-drop-tribe-scrambles.  It's a great thing when it's really random, but when you do it every goddamn week, fuck that.  I'm recording the show and only watching the end of challenges and the outcome of tribal.  I'm bored to freaking tears by the rest of it now.  (I have yet to learn any names except Dom and Chris and I bet I'm not alone.)

[NutMeg]

You know, if they're going to change colors/tribes so often, I almost wish it were every episode. Keep them on their toes and hopefully wipe the smug. Of course, I realize this is not what Survivor was about in the past, but really, would it change things for the worse as far as this season is concerned? 

[LadyChatts]

They should have just merged them at this point.  If you're going to have this many swaps, just merge them.  At least in this case, they can make use of Ghost Island.  And still have the jury start at 13 or whatever number they want.

[djlynch]

Change colors every time tribes change. Preferably names, too. It's a little bit easier to remember that someone was on orange then blue then white than it is to remember orange then purple then orange again.

[SVNBob]

So, Ghost Island itself seems like a bit of a bust.  But could the concept be retooled and made better?

Based on suggestions I saw on Reddit, I give you my idea for a GI fix.

To start, we need to go back to Tocantins.  That season had an Exile "Island", and both tribes had someone go there each time during the pre-merge.  (challenge winning tribe picked someone from the losing tribe; said loser picked someone from the winning tribe to join them). There were clues to the HII on EI, but in bottles.  Both people at EI had to pick a bottle, and only one contained the clue.

So have a future GI work like that in the pre-merge.  Both/all tribes have someone go to GI, but only one gets the cursed item.  How is that chosen?  By improvement #2: a variety of games on GI. 

Almost all the "games" on GI have been the same: pick a container from the selection presented.  You might get something, or you might lose your vote.  The only exceptions were Wendell just getting the challenge advantage, which was boring, and the game Chris played to power up JT's "pocket" idol.  The game Chris played was similar to the other GI games, but different enough to be interesting.

So, with multiple people on GI, have them play a game against each other to see who gets the "advantage".  It could still be the random draw a la Tocantins, or it could be some other mini challenge: target shooting, tile stacking, even fire making.  Winner gets to advance on the path to claim the reward in secret, loser(s) go back to the hut and start cooking the rice.  There could also be a second game for the winner of the head-to-head(-to-head) akin to the current rules: win the item or lose your next TC vote.

With these changes, there's more opportunity for strategy.  The people that went to GI know how the game wend down, but do they share the truth about what happened on GI with their tribe?  Or just their alliance?  Or no one?  And if they do have an item, do they share what it is exactly with their GI companion(s), to try to form a cross-tribal alliance?  Also, selecting who goes to GI becomes more valuable.  More talk, less rock.

[KimberStormer]

I would say the important things for me would be:

1. Always have a game (and you have to play?)
2. More interesting games
3. No idols outside of Ghost Island.

[phlebas]

On 5/19/2018 at 4:44 AM, KimberStormer said:

I would say the important things for me would be:

1. Always have a game (and you have to play?)
2. More interesting games
3. No idols outside of Ghost Island.

That works.  I would add:

4. No "we're going to let them draw rocks, Jeff." Pick someone to go and own it. If you can't agree, there are consequences. 

[Wings]

On 3/30/2018 at 5:08 AM, navelgazer said:

I detest, hate, loathe, abhor, despise, deplore, and dislike the random-yet-every-episode-buff-drop-tribe-scrambles.  It's a great thing when it's really random, but when you do it every goddamn week, fuck that.  I'm recording the show and only watching the end of challenges and the outcome of tribal.  I'm bored to freaking tears by the rest of it now.  (I have yet to learn any names except Dom and Chris and I bet I'm not alone.)

Correct, you are not alone.  I FF through the challenges and have since they moved to Figi.  They are all the same.  I have skipped to the end of TC this season. I never got the names due to the first tribal swap being so early and their constant use of their original, Navati and Manolo.   I never remembered who was on which. 

They are trying to keep it fresh in the wrong ways.  Change the challenges to some of the older ones we haven’t seen in years.  Every one is a race through an obstacle course ending in a puzzle, yawn.  And they are fed too much. An 8 pound loss when you have been out there 35 days is nothing.  If you are on a weight loss diet, at home, you would lose 10 pounds in that amount of time just cutting carbs. 

I am bored to tears.  

Edited May 20, 2018 by Wings

[peachmangosteen]

I think people can probably give up on the players being 'starved' anymore. Fist of all, that whole thing is sort of a false memory. But also, TPTB don't want people out there so depleted that they don't do anything and that's what happens when people are literally starving. It's really not gonna produce an interesting show and that is TPTB's main priority. 

I think something that they could easily change that would really help the show without turning into something it isn't would be changing up the challenges. It is ridiculous that they have become so cheap and lazy with them. Hell, they could just bring back some of the old school challenges and they would probably cost even less than the two challenges they alternate between now anyway. Like the one where they ask them personal questions about the other players. That is literally free! 

Edited May 20, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[Guest]

I agree about the food.  And I agree that anyone low-carbing is going to lose 5+ lbs. of just water/glycogen pretty quickly (and gain it back in a matter of meals).  But I'd rather see lively people than haggard ones.  

I don't mind the challenges themselves.  That one with the ball chutes was really cool, and some others lately are pretty complex, I think, or at least impressive looking from the overhead shots.  There were ones this season that looked a little like American Ninja Warrior obstacles.  My favorites are when they're in the water, which they have done this season, too.  I like a puzzle component, and balance/agility components, because it levels the playing field.  I don't miss the old 8-hour endurance ones that resulted in nerve damage, though some of those were pretty amazing to see unfold.  I think the rope-chop ones got too 'gamed'. 

I wonder if the quiz-like ones are too dull for some viewers.  I didn't mind them, or the ones where Jeff tells a long tale.  But the stuff that doesn't happen anymore, I bet focus groups told them it was too dull.  I do think most viewers prefer the raw visuals of activity during challenges to seeing people think, or just stand out there and talk.  That's what the rest of the episode consists of.  

What I might explore cutting down is the segment between the immunity challenge and tribal.  But I guess they need to spin a story to make some suspense, too.  

It's too bad it's not live or on a shorter delay so they could add some audience interactivity, like how in the Hunger Games viewers could send tools, food, etc. into contestants via air drops.  LOL  Of course, then it'd be back to 'fan favorite', which was always just 'editor's favorite', too.  

So I got very little.  

[KimberStormer]

They tried cutting down the food rations this season and it changed nothing, right? 

[Wings]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think people can probably give up on the players being 'starved' anymore. Fist of all, that whole thing is sort of a false memory.

 I remember higher weight losses. They used to fall face first into reward food and moan.  Now they put napkins in their laps and say please pass the cheese.  Okay so I exaggerate a tad but they definitely had higher losses in early seasons.  Jeff would offer food to lure them down from a balancing challenge, too.  The food auction was spirited because they were very hungry.  They had to stop that because their desire for food was trumped by a game advantage.  It could be reworked. 

And yes it is time for some quiz challenges.   I have thought of new ones that haven't been done.  Crossword puzzles and word scramble are two.  

44 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

They tried cutting down the food rations this season and it changed nothing, right? 

They did?  I didn't notice. 

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I agree about the food.  And I agree that anyone low-carbing is going to lose 5+ lbs. of just water/glycogen pretty quickly (and gain it back in a matter of meals).  But I'd rather see lively people than haggard ones.  

There is a balance they have yet to achieve.  

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I wonder if the quiz-like ones are too dull for some viewers.  I didn't mind them, or the ones where Jeff tells a long tale.  But the stuff that doesn't happen anymore, I bet focus groups told them it was too dull. 

I have the impression they don't pay attention to feedback.  The ratings are high and will remain so because it has become a ritual and habit with fans.  It is all about ratings.  If they paid attention to feedback things we have been harping about for years would show up.