Fix The Show

[AncientNewbie]

I haven't fleshed out this brainstorm yet, but I'm pondering the idea of ranked voting. The idea is out of the thing where (allegedly) some might have voted Michelle but they felt not voting Tony would give it to Natalie. (Sorry if that is a hard sentence to follow.)

I know it's not tradition and it's not as dramatic as single parchments from a jug, but I am trying to figure a way to more accurately capture the gameplay than a zero sum game.

[LadyChatts]

They need to do away with EOE for good.  And if they still have it, somehow make it rougher than it is.  I don't think it's a coincidence that 2 early boots managed to get in at the end of the season.  But I hope this is the last season we see it.

I also hope they don't bring fire tokens back, but I'm sure that's going to be something regular now.

And I know idols aren't going anywhere, but there needs to be a limit.  Once it's played, it's out.  I was no fan of Denise, but it sucked that she didn't even get any votes initially, and still ended up being voted out.  Not as bad as Cirie literally leaving with no votes, but we were close to that territory last night.  I also wish they'd do away with fire.  Except for maybe last night, has it really served its purpose that Probst claimed it was for?

Edited May 14, 2020 by LadyChatts

[Kel Varnsen]

Here is a small one, instead of every other challenge being obstacle course then a puzzle why not make a few puzzle then obstacle course.

[Carey]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Here is a small one, instead of every other challenge being obstacle course then a puzzle why not make a few puzzle then obstacle course.

I actually would love to see that.  It would be a treat to see several struggle with a puzzle, while the ones that don't win IC by a mile.  OTOH, someone could crush the puzzle, but then if they're not athletic it would be such an embarrassing loss (and I'd be okay with that too) 

[TVFan1]

Yeah, no more EOE, the concept is garbage. Jeff did say they were going to shelve it for a while. I hope he never brings it back.

[Grrarrggh]

They need to go back to Survivor Series 1 rules. But not tell the contestants those are the rules they're using for a while. Let them look for idols when there aren't any to be found. 

[SVNBob]

6 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I also hope they don't bring fire tokens back, but I'm sure that's going to be something regular now.

They seemed to work this season, but only because of EoE.  I don't know how they'd work without it.  So I'm sure they're going to try that at least once, to see if there is a way to make it work.

[Kel Varnsen]

8 hours ago, SVNBob said:

They seemed to work this season, but only because of EoE.  I don't know how they'd work without it.  So I'm sure they're going to try that at least once, to see if there is a way to make it work.

The only way to bring back fire tokens without EoE would be if fire tokens became the rewards for reward challenges. Which could be kind of interesting if you could save up or trade your rewards.

[Kenzie]

All I want is for Jeff to calm down, stop screeching and put a little dead air between his words during challenges.

This season I usually watched the challenge with the volume down or off just so I could concentrate on the action instead of Jeff's verbal histrionics.

[AncientNewbie]

On 5/15/2020 at 12:05 AM, Grrarrggh said:

They need to go back to Survivor Series 1 rules. But not tell the contestants those are the rules they're using for a while. Let them look for idols when there aren't any to be found. 

 

I'm a fan of all versions of the game/show, but quite a bit I miss the "here's a machete and a pot, good luck" version of the game. Even when it wasn't that severe, the harsher element had a lot more interesting dynamics for me. You might need to keep a provider, or the person that could start fire without flint might be more valuable than just another pretty face, etc.

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

 

I'm a fan of all versions of the game/show, but quite a bit I miss the "here's a machete and a pot, good luck" version of the game. Even when it wasn't that severe, the harsher element had a lot more interesting dynamics for me. You might need to keep a provider, or the person that could start fire without flint might be more valuable than just another pretty face, etc.

These early-style sort of Survivor seasons were my favorites as well - but I’m afraid they’ve gone the way of the dodo, never to return.  For one thing, the show has changed so much from this model I expect most of the people currently applying are no longer even interested in the survival aspect prevalent in the original seasons.  The primary goals of the current crop of applicants are the money and/or exposure; when was the last time we heard a contestant say they were in it for the survival experience - Ozzy, maybe?  Reinstate the original level of hardship, and TPTB would probably see their DOR rate skyrocket 

[skybolt]

On 5/14/2020 at 6:32 PM, LadyChatts said:

They need to do away with EOE for good.  And if they still have it, somehow make it rougher than it is.  I don't think it's a coincidence that 2 early boots managed to get in at the end of the season.  But I hope this is the last season we see it.

Most of the challenge beasts are typically voted out right after merge, which leaves the remaining ones vulnerable to a another challenge beast coming back at Final 6 from EoE and running the table. It's like the table is set for the returnee to make it to final tribal.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, skybolt said:

It's like the table is set for the returnee to make it to final tribal.

Absolutely. Especially since they're getting HIIs and then with the F4 fire-making, the final EoE returnees only had to make it through one TC through actual game playing lol.

[Kel Varnsen]

7 hours ago, Nashville said:

These early-style sort of Survivor seasons were my favorites as well - but I’m afraid they’ve gone the way of the dodo, never to return.  For one thing, the show has changed so much from this model I expect most of the people currently applying are no longer even interested in the survival aspect prevalent in the original seasons.  The primary goals of the current crop of applicants are the money and/or exposure; when was the last time we heard a contestant say they were in it for the survival experience - Ozzy, maybe?  Reinstate the original level of hardship, and TPTB would probably see their DOR rate skyrocket 

If you did have the old time rules come back you would need to do it at least twice in a row. Because the overall survival strategy now seems make the simplest shelter possible the just lay around camp using as little energy as possible so you can survive on a scoop of rice a day. Since you know that the rewards and the merge feast are probably going to be good.

That way you can vote off the provider type since they are also probably a challenge monster. But if they changed the rules back so you needed the provider and didn't give away a lot of food people would be in trouble if they didn't expect it.

[KimberStormer]

Not that CBS cares or should care what I think but I will never watch another episode as long as there's an F4 fire-making; no EoE/Redemption Island should go without saying.

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Not that CBS cares or should care what I think but I will never watch another episode as long as there's an F4 fire-making; no EoE/Redemption Island should go without saying.

You'll never watch another episode again then because I don't see TPTB ever giving up on F4 fire-making. I don't think we'll see EoE for at least a few seasons though.

[SVNBob]

From the S42 finale thread:

11 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think there are tradeoffs with going to the aftershow format of the last couple seasons, but I think overall the pros outweigh the cons. (Although admittedly, I didn't watch all/much of the aftershow this time)

Pros

Immediate reactions from people fresh in the moment

No/less filler as to random audience members reactions

Fewer opportunities for Peachy to try to make it about him (or so it seems to me)

Less of the pomp and circumstance trying to make it seem like Survivor is such an important social phenomenon

Less filler and replaying of clips

Cons

No chance to hear from pre-Merge contestants. I might have been curious to see Daniel again and hear some of what he had to say this season, for example.

I do kind of miss seeing everyone's glow-ups, the joyful reaction of family members and that sort of thing

No chance for the contestants to react to a bunch of stuff that makes the broadcast that they didn't know about at the time.

I propose a simple solution: Do Both.  On-location immediate reveal and after-show with the jury and F3, and a live post-series full-cast reunion .

Here's how I would schedule/program that.  Instead of the finale including the last couple TCs before TC, those become regular episodes.  F5 to F4 as the ante-penultimate, then F4 to F3 in the penultimate episode, which ends with the F3 heading to FTC (think the WaW penultimate episode, with the cast leaving EoE to head to the final challenge to re-enter the game.)  Peachy will get a dramatic VO talking about the finalists (E.g.: "Mike, the honorable backstabber.  Maryanne, the emotional strategist.  Romeo, the unexpected underdog.") shown over clips of them from throughout the season.

Finale night is still a 3-hour affair.  Show opens with the full cast (barring any excluded for legal reasons) seated on stage, with the F3 front and center.  Format goes back to the old finales, swapping back and forth between the live event and the FTC.

Episode proper starts at FTC, with Peachy giving his usual speech about it being the endgame, how the power has shifted, accountability, blah blah fishcakes.  Things proceed as normal; just an hour or so earlier than they had been.

I'd encourage a cut to live when Peachy goes to tally the jury votes (which should be between the bottom of the first hour and top of the second) to the stage with Peachy and the pre-jury.  Quick check-ins with all of them, then a poll to see who they'd have voted for as jurors.  Segment closes with Peachy saying we'll soon see the actual results.  Commercial after that, a short scene of the F3 seated on stage, then back to the on-site reading of the votes.   At the break where they change the set and bring in the food, a cut back to live where we see the reaction of the live audience, a short interview with the winner, and the presentation of the check before Peachy says that after the break, it'll be the on-site aftershow, then the live reunion after that.

From there, things can be a little loose.  If there's an on-site question that may have added or changed relevance post-airing, there can be a cut to live Peachy asking about it immediately instead of waiting.

[LadyChatts]

I'll say this about the amount of advantages this season-the only one that ended up mattering in the end were MaryAnne's extra vote, and Chanelle risking her vote (which caused Jenny to go home).  We didn't even see the idol nullifier, none of Drea's advantages were used (except her extra vote I think, which didn't even matter), the amulet advantage turned out to be a bust, though could have been a game changer if Lindsay used it on Omar.  KIP and Shot in the Dark were busts again, although SITD got played more this season than last I think.  Do or Die, I guess depending on your view point, was a failure or success, though you know TPTB are dying for someone to go home because of that.  Mike played his idol, but it was really for nothing.  The other two idol plays were more symbolic in nature. 

I still want them to do away with so many idols and especially advantages, but I guess the silver lining this season is no matter how many are in play, it doesn't mean they'll get played or make an impact.  

[jsm1125]

The Turn Back Time, the Idol Nullifier and Knowledge Is Power are atrocious twists. Why should an immunity win or an advantage be taken away from you or negated simply because production is bored? 

The on-island reunions could be okay if they bothered to include the pre-jury or actually talked about juicy topics. Saying “wasn’t this twist fun and scary?” doesn’t do it for me 

[MerBearHou]

2 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

The Turn Back Time, the Idol Nullifier and Knowledge Is Power are atrocious twists. Why should an immunity win or an advantage be taken away from you or negated simply because production is bored? 

Agree with the above 1000%

I do like the immediacy of the votes being read because in the months-later version, the winner always always knew.  In the months later version, it was fun to see everyone dressed up and back to their pre-show weight, but that doesn’t make me prefer the annoying live audience show where Jeff interacted and wasted time with members of the audience.  

Not seeing pre-jury folks, especially the first boots who I truly forget about, is fine with me.  I’d prefer to hear from the players I feel like I’ve gotten to know better over the weeks.

Bring back the food auction - loved that.

Never bring back the eat-gross-food challenge.  

I like the Amazing Race’s final challenge that involves some version of “put these experiences in order”.  

[LadyChatts]

After last night's finale, here's a few things I'd like to see changed going forward:

-If the FMC final 4 isn't going away, and is supposedly going to be such a factor in deciding who wins, then scrap the last IC and let all 4 go to fire.  Either the first person who finishes casts the only vote to kick someone off (thus deciding who they are taking to the final 3 with them), or the first 3 to finish are in the final 3.  

-26 day seasons aren't going away, either.  Fine, but structure the game for a 26 day season.  I feel like they are trying to cram a 39 day season into a two week shorter time frame.  Don't make things so rushed.  Maybe go back to 16 contestants (I know they have 18-20 in large part in case there's quits or medevacs-but if they have to start the jury phase earlier, or have a final 2, then what's wrong with that?).  I feel like game play was really lacking this season, and having such a short turn around between challenges and TC leaves little room for anything big to happen.  It doesn't help when there are risk your votes, steal a votes, KIP advantages, idols, and whatever other advantage they want to throw in there.  Having a few is okay, but again, in a 26 day season this just feels like more overkill than normal. 

-On that subject, I wish they'd go back to two tribes to start, or have a tribe swap.  Again, starting with just 6 people leaves little wiggle room for any real strategy, moves, or places to hide.  I also hate seeing one tribe dominate early on, like Coco did this season, and especially Luvu in S41.  At least Coco eventually lost, but it was basically because Ryan was throwing the challenges that led them there.  Having a tribe swap might shake things up and give a previous underdog a chance.  I also don't like someone losing their vote because they risked it when they are in a 6 person tribe.  Yeah, I know when they risk their vote they potentially lose it and that's the gamble, but still, it hurts a small tribe even more when one person can't vote, and 3 people have the majority. 

-I actually love seeing the winner announcement read live, but I wish they could have the reunion show months later like they used to.  I don't need the live audience and Probst seeking out Cochran or Boston Rob for their comments.  Just give me the contestants.

-And finally, fire whoever was editing this season.   

I realize that there can be flaws with what I've said above, but it'd be a start.  

Edited December 15, 2022 by LadyChatts