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Seasons 1 and 2 Discussion


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On 5/27/2018 at 10:45 PM, stealinghome said:

I wonder if this show's endgame is Eve killing and/or becoming even more violent than Villanelle. (Ie, I wonder if the title is metaphorical, and we're seeing the deterioration of Eve as a person, or if we might as well rewrite it as "Killer Eve.") She's clearly got some fundamental screws loose as well, perhaps even more than Villanelle deep down.

For the most part I found the series was good on so many levels.  The writing, acting, locations, etc.  The only thing that I didn't like was how the Eve character was so damned stupid despite having good instincts.  The character was essentially an idiot.  I don't dislike Oh, but I really wish her part was written as well as some of the others.  

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(edited)

New viewer. Yes, this episode was aggravating because Bill’s death was both telegraphed and made him look like a moron. 

They know they’re tracking a psychopathic female assassin, so he follows the first suspicious woman he sees into a tactically unsafe situation? Grrr. Come on, show. Also, introducing a regular and then killing them in episode 3 of 8, after basically one scene of backstory, was very strange season pacing.

Edited by kieyra
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On 6/29/2018 at 4:40 PM, tricksi said:

Rather than demand Carolyn get her husband immediate security when she learned how Villanelle killed the husband of her last obsession, she goes on like its no big deal.

That's because Eve had already done so, after Villanelle broke into her home. It happened in the scene where Eve was telling Carolyn about it - she said her husband needed security. And Carolyn didn't nix the request.

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You know, I’m really torn on whether Bill’s death happened at the right point of the season or whether I would have pushed it back. On the one hand, I DO think it made Eve look bad to be so obsessed (and not fully for bringing to justice reasons) with the woman who killed Bill. Further, while Bill’s death was impactful in episode 3, it might’ve been even more so in episode 6 (say). And he opened up interesting facets of Eve that we didn’t necessarily otherwise get to see.

On the other, I don’t think Eve could have fallen into the rabbit hole of her obsession as much as she did had Bill been there to act as a sort of brake on her, or a reality check. (Villanelle’s “He was holding you back” in the dinner scene could be read as a kind of meta line.) Further, I do think it was good for the show to up the stakes at that point, not only for the viewers but also for Eve, who was acting like catching Villanelle was a fun game to play on vacation and didn’t REALLY understand what she was getting herself into. She needed to “get serious” about it.

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I see your points. For it to be an effective inciting incident in such a short series, I think we needed to have more backstory on him up front, and then his death by episode 2 at the latest. I think the problem is that it was time they spent on establishing Villanelle and her handler instead.

I haven’t made it to the end yet, but after typing it out, maybe this should have been a 13 episode season. 

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3 hours ago, kieyra said:

I haven’t made it to the end yet, but after typing it out, maybe this should have been a 13 episode season. 

Yeah, I don’t usually say this about tv shows, but I think Killing Eve did need another episode or two in Season 1 to let its story breathe. Part of the series’ charm is its pace but it felt a bit rushed at times. Plus I wanted more cute interactions between Eve’s Scooby gang!

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13 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

Yeah, I don’t usually say this about tv shows, but I think Killing Eve did need another episode or two in Season 1 to let its story breathe. Part of the series’ charm is its pace but it felt a bit rushed at times. Plus I wanted more cute interactions between Eve’s Scooby gang!

I absolutely love Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s stuff (Fleabag and Crashing, for example), and she seems more comfortable with even shorter works (I believe both of those were six episodes). Maybe she just needs more time to stretch her wings, although I’m not clear how much she does for Killing Eve besides writing and “adaptation” credits.

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54 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I absolutely love Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s stuff (Fleabag and Crashing, for example), and she seems more comfortable with even shorter works (I believe both of those were six episodes). Maybe she just needs more time to stretch her wings, although I’m not clear how much she does for Killing Eve besides writing and “adaptation” credits.

I tried watching Fleabag once, and didn't care for it. But after Killing Eve, I tried it again, and loved it. I had to get past the first episode - but after finishing realized just how brilliantly everything fit in and led to the final episode. It was well crafted writing that I didn't recognize until I got deeper and deeper into the story.

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(edited)

 I really wanted to like this, but it didn’t work for me. I had a few negatives going in; I’ve never been able understand the fuss about Sandra Oh, and she didn’t seem to do anything spectacular here. I also don’t find sociopaths particularly compelling, so while Villanelle is interesting to watch (and the actress was fantastic), there’s nothing to “root” for because she’s basically just a murderous robot with a very sophisticated AI. I also don’t believe in sociopath redemption arcs. (Barf, Dexter.) I think Villanelle would agree with me.

 That meant I needed some other character to be invested in. Eve was a complete mess, the breezy senior spy lady was ... entirely too breezy about everything, and Konstantin was pretty one-note.  I had major suspension of disbelief problems with the idea that Eve would be recruited into this project.  Good intuition isn’t a great substitute for being competent at ... anything.  I wanted to see her being good at something.  I needed to see her being good at something besides being obsessed. Most of her successes were based on sheer bluster, such as with the landlady.  I was unable to connect with her obsession with Villanelle, or vice versa. I didn’t understand what was supposed to drive their chemistry.

I’m sure I’ll watch the next season to see if they tighten some of these things up. 

Edited by kieyra
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32 minutes ago, BellyLaughter said:

No Jodie Comer.....ok Emmys.  Whatever.

A travesty.  She made the show.  There are a lot of actresses who could have played Oh's part, but not many could portray Comer's character as well as she did.

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(edited)
31 minutes ago, ichbin said:

A travesty.  She made the show.  There are a lot of actresses who could have played Oh's part, but not many could portray Comer's character as well as she did.

100%!!  Sandra Oh did what Sandra Oh always does, she's fantastic!!  However Jodie's performance was a revelation for me.... she managed to make a ruthless, cold blooded assassin weirdly likeable lol Without that nuance in her performance this show is dead in the water...

Edited by BellyLaughter
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13 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Sandra Oh got the Emmy nomination for Killling Eve. Making history as well. As the first Asian nominated in a lead category. 

http://ew.com/tv/2018/07/12/sandra-oh-emmys-history-killing-eve/

She's the first Asian nominated for an Emmy in the lead actress in a drama category, but not the first Asian nominated in an Emmy lead category. Riz Ahmed won for lead actor in a limited series last year. Aziz Ansari was nominated for lead actor in a comedy series last year and the year before. I know it sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but this is like when people kept saying that Misty Copeland was the first Black principal dancer at ABT when she was actually the first Black female principal at the company. Giving props to Desmond Richardson doesn't take away from Misty's accomplishment!

The last time an Asian actress was nominated for an Emmy in ANY acting category, it was Archie Panjabi for best supporting actress in a drama series (The Good Wife) in 2010. I don't recall any Asian actresses who have been nominated in comedy categories.

It's kind of sad that we're still having these "OMG, it's a first!" moments in 2018, but I'm still happy for her. Any progress is good (especially when you can count the total number of Asian nominees in Emmy history - male, female, drama, comedy, leading role, supporting role - on one hand)!

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Quote

There are a lot of actresses who could have played Oh's part

I disagree. IMO Sandra has a very lowkey, grounded intensity & charisma to her acting that largely goes unappreciated unless you were to try putting another actor in that position. That's important for a character like Eve, who is not the most likable of heroines. I don't think another actor could keep me invested in Eve when she's being a total fucking mess. 

To me, it's just that Jodie has the flashier role. I do think that Jodie deserved a nomination - I personally would have given her Evan Rachel Wood's spot - but I don't think it's a matter of her outshining/outdoing Sandra. They were both compelling but in different ways. 

Anyway, Jodie's tweet in support of Sandra and Phoebe was so cute:

Edited by galax-arena
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So my Tivo has marked an entire day of Killing Eve on 7/22.  This starts at 6 AM, BBCA.  All of the episodes are titles Killing Eve: Expanded: Nice Face, etc.  They all extend 5-10 minutes over the original 60 minute format.  I’ve googled the heck out of this.  Is this a case of the American’s having scenes cut again?  At least this time they’re giving them back to us.

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Oh, man. I just finished watching this show and came here to comment that Jodie Comer was really robbed of that nomination. Sandra Oh is great, but Comer I think really created an unforgettable character. The show wouldn't be what it was without that performance.

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Some big behind the scenes changes for S2 detailed here. Can't lie, this makes me a bit nervous. S1 of Killing Eve had its writing flaws, to be sure, but it did a lot more right than wrong, and some of what it got right is very hard to replicate.

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Waller-Bridge is involved with the changes, so I'm cautiously optimistic. And it doesn't sound as if the changes are because people are unhappy, just that Waller-Bridge is so busy she can't give the show enough attention.

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I binge watched the series and enjoyed it. That said, I am really surprised that Sandra Oh got an Emmy nom and Jodie Comer did not. I admit I've only seen Sandra Oh in a few things (not Grey's Anatomy) but it seemed like she was basically playing herself, (if Sandra Oh had found herself in that situation)  while Comer was nailing the sociopath character.

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On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 9:58 AM, QuinnM said:

So my Tivo has marked an entire day of Killing Eve on 7/22.  This starts at 6 AM, BBCA.  All of the episodes are titles Killing Eve: Expanded: Nice Face, etc.  They all extend 5-10 minutes over the original 60 minute format.  I’ve googled the heck out of this.  Is this a case of the American’s having scenes cut again?  At least this time they’re giving them back to us.

My dvr recorded all the extended episodes; are they worth watching?  Are the episodes so different that it's worth all that time?

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On 7/28/2018 at 8:02 PM, SoSueMe said:

I binge watched the series and enjoyed it. That said, I am really surprised that Sandra Oh got an Emmy nom and Jodie Comer did not. I admit I've only seen Sandra Oh in a few things (not Grey's Anatomy) but it seemed like she was basically playing herself, (if Sandra Oh had found herself in that situation)  while Comer was nailing the sociopath character.

I'm with you. I must be missing something with Oh's performance. She seemed to spend most of the season making the same frowny/suspicious/concerned expression, especially once her partner was dead. I also don't think another actress would have somehow fared worse. Hell, based on her performances in Fleabag and Broadchurch, Phoebe Waller-Bridge would have been just fine herself. (Well, okay, I don't know how her American accent is.)

(I didn't care for her in GA either, so clearly something is just not clicking for me. I've always failed to see what the fuss is about.) 

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Can anyone familiar with London tell me where this scene was shot?  I cannot figure out the name of the museum on the sign!  Looks like it starts with "South -" or "Smith -"  but i can't find any matches on Google.  Help?!

 

IMG_0102.PNG

 

Or does this help? This is where they walked to: 

IMG_0104.PNG

Edited by Janc
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I just watched the first two episodes On Demand last night.  The acting and storytelling is great and I cannot wait to see more.  My only criticism is that everything just falls into place for the psychopath assassin.  A convenient drainpipe to climb. No one enters the toilet. Those kinds of things take me out of the story a bit.  

The two female leads are great so far.  Hope the writing keeps up.

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I just started this show, after a friend kept praising it, and I don't regret it! The pilot was great, can't wait to see the rest.

One tiny little criticism though: Villanelle's French is extremely bad. Like really. Like I almost didn't recognize it was French and had to read the subtitles to understand her. Her Italian sounded a lot better, but only an actual Italian-speaker could confirm that. But that's a tall order anyway, mastering several foreign languages when you're playing a spy. The actors were also terrible on Alias.

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On 28/06/2018 at 1:47 PM, jmnf19 said:

Yes, it has, but that’s not what we’re discussing. It’s the French accents we’re talking about. Her accent is French (as she is pretending to be French) not Russian. And her handler is French, so they would be talking to each other in French. Anyway, as we’ve determined, with other languages being used as well, the accents make more sense now. 

It’s funny, now that we know she’s Russian, her French accent (while speaking English) is fake then I guess. It would be a Russian accent. And considering she did a good British accent (the character I mean, I know the actress is British) I’d agree she can probably speak many languages and speak in many (fake) accents when speaking English. I’m going to stop thinking about this before I completely confuse myself. :D

Funny you heard a French accent when I've always heard a Russian accent (when she's speaking French). And her French is atrocious, but I thought in episode 1 that her Italian sounded good (but I'm not Italian, so who knows?) But as you mentioned, everyone's French accent, except Carla, was terrible. French must be really hard, I suppose!

I've read once that psychopaths represent 1% of the population, which is a lot. It means we've all met at least one, and probably several. The fraction of serial killers in that 1% is actually pretty low. Anyway, I like Villanelle's portrayal. That pink dress was everything!

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On 04/05/2018 at 4:03 PM, Clanstarling said:

I think they've been providing small hints from the beginning, with Eve describing her marriage in an underwhelming way (I forget exactly how, but it was clear she wasn't "he's the best thing ever!"), and her initial hesitation to join up, as she knew she'd get some blow back from him, her telling him it was office work, and now she is getting the blow back she was expecting. He's a nice guy, but he's a barrier between her and what she truly wants to do (even if she hasn't fully accepted it - but she's pretty much there now).

 

I think it was in the pilot that Elena mentioned Eve is super bored by her marriage and private life. I suppose there's no passion, judging from the scene where she suggests sex, then forgets about it, then remembers, but both admit that they're too tired. I'm not suggesting that it doens't happen IRL, just this scene was put there for a reason. Doesn't he run a bridge club too? I mean, they're doing everything they can to show us how boring their life is.

On 12/05/2018 at 10:34 PM, DEM said:

In addition to your good points, I think the show is doing a good job portraying Eve and her cohorts as analysts or investigators, not cops or even spies.  If they were supposed to be actual field agents, they would look incompetent. They don't display the necessary skills or instincts.

I'm surprised so many here expect them to have guns. They're analysts, not field agents. They don't have the first clue about guns. Many American shows don't depict intelligence agents in a realistic way. It's an office job, you gather intelligence, that's it. I think the show Rubicon was particularly realistic in that regard. I thought it was fascinating but sadly, no one watched it and it was cancelled.

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5 hours ago, Isazouzi said:

I think the show Rubicon was particularly realistic in that regard. I thought it was fascinating but sadly, no one watched it and it was cancelled.

I watched it! A big problem I had with that show was that I don't think the writers were sure of how much technology they wanted the characters to use, even though it was set in the present. So we saw them going through tons of paper files and things, when they could have just as easily looked it up on a computer. But regardless, the show did a good job of not overglamorizing the drudgery of analysis. It's not about dashing around to exotic places. It's about sitting at your desk putting disparate facts together.

If Eve had any weapons training, it would have been at the very beginning of her career when she was in basic training, if at all. So her ineptness didn't bother me at all. I think some of her vocal and physical reactions might have been exaggerated for dramatic effect, but it's not as if the show isn't already heightened emotionally anyway.

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Wow. That was incredibly disappointing. Right from the first episode, the show made decisions that came across as lazy, handwave writing, but this episode really takes it.  The MOMENT everyone learned the assassin was using Eve's name should have kicked EVERYTHING up a security notch. Instead, Bill and Eve go to Berlin and bumble around like friggin' tourists with no protection of any kind and no awareness of their surroundings either. Neither consider the stolen bag may have been grabbed by the person who just killed a man using Eve's name. Bill, who had in this short time, been presented as a seasoned MI5 agent, with a young child at home with oodles of police contacts in Berlin not only does not tell anyone about the bump but upon seeing the same woman at the train station inexplicably begins to make one stupid decision after the other.  He doesn't call Eve right away. He doesn't call any Berlin contacts for backup. This woman is an ASSASSIN and yet he becomes stupider and stupider as the moments pass and he is so CLEARLY being led to his death.  I don't buy it for a second.  What an absolute shame that already, the writing is forcing characters to make decisions they simply would not make because it's more dramatic or it's easier to kill character B off.  If this sort of thing is already happening in episode 3, I can only imagine how stupider the show will get.  By and large, I'd really liked the show, but it's better to get out now than watch the next few episodes hoping things will get better. Too bad, but that's it for me.

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On 2018-05-05 at 10:11 PM, Clanstarling said:

The Brits don't have the gun culture we have, and I believe only recently-ish, have the cops started carrying guns.  

Yeah that's why I rolled my eyes a lot during this episode. In reality a shooting like that in Sussex(a pretty quiet part if the country) would have triggered a massive country wide response.  Transportation would be shut down the media would be showing the car on every channel for days. Not to mention how they would get all those weapons into a country with some of the tightest gun control on the planet.

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I enjoyed Eve a lot and wanted to smack Villanelle (using the target's grandson in Italy was distressing) but I also spent the middle part confused about why Villanelle was taking time out of her tight schedule when she needed to go to Tuscany to pretend to be the girlfriend of her first target and give Eve the tip about the killer being a small-breasted woman. It's possible that I didn't grasp that Kasia was actually a different real person until I found out that she was in the hospital.

Edited by SomeTameGazelle
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On 8/15/2018 at 1:01 AM, Emily Thrace said:

I rolled my eyes a lot during this episode.

Me too.  I live in the UK.  You can't be shooting off automatic weapons like that in the countryside and not have a ton of officials show up within minutes.  In the States maybe, but not here. Those shoot 'em up scenes were so annoyingly stupid I don't think I'll bother with the series.  I should have stopped at the ridiculous night club killing.

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I know the show got glowing praise, but I'm finding more and more that it's really a 'you like it or you hate it' show. Too bad I'm in the 2nd category.  When a show lets me know that it's going to sacrifice character in favor of lazy plot movement THIS early in the series, I believe it.

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On 4/30/2018 at 1:54 PM, attica said:

V's referring to Nadia as "Fanny" to Frank's 'mother' made me laugh, as did Nadia's unspoken irritation with the moniker. A swell little character detail and note. (For those who don't know, in the UK, 'fanny' is slang for vulva,

Nadia's expressions were great, but I thought it was a bit of a cheat to have her English so poor that she said drop up instead of drop in and couldn't participate in the conversation with Frank's "mother" as fluently as Villanelle but at the same time she knew that the name Fanny was to make fun of her.

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On 5/4/2018 at 10:03 AM, Clanstarling said:

think they've been providing small hints from the beginning, with Eve describing her marriage in an underwhelming way (I forget exactly how, but it was clear she wasn't "he's the best thing ever!"), and her initial hesitation to join up, as she knew she'd get some blow back from him, her telling him it was office work, and now she is getting the blow back she was expecting. He's a nice guy, but he's a barrier between her and what she truly wants to do (even if she hasn't fully accepted it - but she's pretty much there now).

She said she had married her father, which I remember because it took me a minute to work out what she meant. I like the husband a lot and he seems really quite supportive given the extent to which he is in the dark. I hope he doesn't have to become a villain to justify Eve's dissatisfaction.

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On 5/28/2018 at 3:05 PM, Ailianna said:

They told us who Anna is--the widow of the man Villanelle castrated to get sent to prison in the first place.

That's only if you assume that Oksana's relationship was primarily with this man, whoever he was. But I don't think we have ever heard his name whereas Konstantin mentioned Anna to Oksana very early in the series so we knew she was significant even before Nadia mentioned her. 

I thought Villanelle's preference for speaking English in a Russian prison came off very awkwardly, even more awkwardly than her speaking English to Nadia in Bletcham. 

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On 5/26/2018 at 12:12 AM, stealinghome said:

Anna tooooooootally reciprocated Villanelle's interest, no question.

I don't know, it seemed off to me for her to tell Eve that she was Oksana's type since her story was about Oksana's obsession with her. When would Oksana have shown her that she was one of a type? I won't be surprised if Anna is one of the Twelve. 

I complained about Russians speaking English in the last episode but Anton bringing it up was even more bizarre. Why speak English for this one meeting and warn her that they will speak Russian next time? 

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1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

Power play. He was trying to establish dominance over Villanelle.

And how does his speaking English in this meeting achieve that? If we accept the odd idea that even though Oksana's first language is Russian and she spent most of her life in Russia she prefers to speak English with Russians, conducting the first meeting in English gives in to her preference and lets her know that if she defies him and speaks English in this theoretical next meeting he will understand her. Instead of an authentic in-story reason for characters who share a first language to speak a second language it felt to me like a flimsy acknowledgement that they should be speaking Russian but since the actors and production are English they are going to use as much English as possible.

I wasn't bothered by the language issue in the first few episodes because I assumed that Konstantin and Villanelle had different first languages. Now that it's clear that they are both native Russian speakers it seems strange that they speak so much English to each other, especially in Russia.

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Because it was an initial courtesy to her preferences. I didn’t see anything odd about it—I think of that as standard SOP. 

Re: Villanelle’s preference for English, I think they gave a credible enough reason (within the context of an English-speaking show) for her not to want to speak Russian when earlier episodes made it clear she was avoiding basically anything to do with Anna. Rejecting Russian is another means of avoidance.

Edited by stealinghome
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Was this episode the first time Oksana asked Konstantin why they had never had sex? (I know I have heard her mention it before, but am not sure whether it was in a preview.) I got the impression that she wanted to be told that she is his daughter.

I find Villanelle more annoying than amusing so I would have been fine if Eve had fatally wounded her. I felt indignant on Elena's behalf when Villanelle congratulated Eve on having found her and Eve thanked her. It was Elena who did all the work to track her down! 

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On 23 April 2018 at 3:53 AM, catrice2 said:

Since there is a season 2 should I assume that she will not get caught?

LOL

"Killing Eve" 

The most ridiculous nonsense ever in the television age ?

From the dodgy "Russian" accents to the non intentional terrible/funny/disjointed plot.

The irony is pathos, the actors are on overtime to ham it up to a degree never observed before.

The stereotypes - dear god "the stereotypes" !! The cliches - dear god "the cliches". They purvey every inch of this claptrap !!

It's like Monty Python meets Dads Army with a touch of Panorama on acid ?

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OK, this was surprisingly fun, considering it's about a sociopathic assassin and the woman tasked with finding her (will Eve realise who she met in the bathroom?). Though the bathroom scene makes me wonder (and sorry to bring reality to this!) - how was Villanelle able to get away so clean? There were a LOT of bloody corpses in that room, no way Villanelle wouldn't have got some on her scrubs, but they seemed spotless when Eve met her. She might have washed her hands afterwards but her clothing should look like she worked in a slaughterhouse!

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:19 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I had to laugh when Niko's method of hypothetical murder was pushing her down the stairs (which, as she said, would make him look guilty right away) while Eve had a complicated multi-step plan.

Of course, it all depends how much time you have to premeditate. Despite what TV shows would tell you, most murders aren't intricately plotted evil schemes but impulsive spur of the moment acts (and in the majority of cases are solved, mostly because of that). But given that Eve works in a field where she probably gets a lot of reports of how people were murdered, she probably has a better idea than most how to avoid the usual pitfalls.

(Note to self: work on some better murder plans)

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4 hours ago, John Potts said:

OK, this was surprisingly fun, considering it's about a sociopathic assassin and the woman tasked with finding her (will Eve realise who she met in the bathroom?). Though the bathroom scene makes me wonder (and sorry to bring reality to this!) - how was Villanelle able to get away so clean? There were a LOT of bloody corpses in that room, no way Villanelle wouldn't have got some on her scrubs, but they seemed spotless when Eve met her. She might have washed her hands afterwards but her clothing should look like she worked in a slaughterhouse!

 

I thought that Villanelle was in the bathroom before the murders and that's when Eve saw her. And then Villanelle went to the room to kill the witness while Eve used the bathroom and got away before Eve got back to the room. Did I misremember?

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