S04.E09: Guess Who's Coming To Lunch

[Atlanta]

My name for Landon (I keep thinking of Michael Landon) is Giggles McGiggleson. My hopes is that Julien doesn't have FAS. A neighbor's adopted son has it. Tough battle.

[biakbiak]

7 minutes ago, zenme said:

Can't stand Ravenel Sr. and his racist ass, but really Thomas? You held Saint's birthday party on a Thursday afternoon and expected guests to show up? Given that, I don't think Thomas should feel too bad about Art not showing up. But a child's birthday party on a Thursday afternoon? Okaaay. I guess that's how "our kind" rolls.

He is a 90 year old retiree who's only commitment on that day was a dentist appointment.

[MerryMary]

Color me shocked that Ravenel Sr. goes to the dentist at all.  For a moneyed family, he sure didn't use his dental plan. Pics when he was younger show absolutely wretched teeth.  Sometimes I think they should modify the Statue of Liberty to have implants and a missing tooth to reflect our crazy values.

[Atlanta]

12 minutes ago, MerryMary said:

Color me shocked that Ravenel Sr. goes to the dentist at all.  For a moneyed family, he sure didn't use his dental plan. Pics when he was younger show absolutely wretched teeth.  Sometimes I think they should modify the Statue of Liberty to have implants and a missing tooth to reflect our crazy values.

I'm puzzled by some old school money folks who have horrid teeth. I'm calling out the royal family, Kennedy family (holy horse teeth), etc in this. Sr would be around before braces were the norm. When I was in school, kids only got them if their teeth were truly jacked. Now everyone gets them.

Is Thomas constantly drunk or is a slow slur his normal state?

Landon needs to not be on this show. Is it true she left her husband because Ms Whiney didn't get enough attention? Sorry, he was busy earning money. This woman has two brain cells and they're looking for each other.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Atlanta

[Mindthinkr]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don't think that woman in the restaurant was a plant.  I think she saw a camera and wanted to get on TV.

I noticed a few coffee mugs on her table. I think she was drunk and was sobering up but decided to give them a piece of her mind. 

[Prairie]

I'm surprised that I think this, but I think that Thomas is trying his best to be a good father. He's obviously close to his kids - they are completely comfortable around him and and seem to love his attention. And it appears that he feels the same way about them. Saint was totally content nursing his bottle in Thomas' arms as he read his letter to Kathryn, and the sweet way Thomas was nuzzling his head can't be faked. No, nannies & kids living in the guest house aren't the best choice for everyone, but I doubt Ravenel Sr. ever held baby Thomas while he nursed a bottle. And he was hilarious last week when he screamed "Look at the warter!" at Kenzie on her Charleston tour.

[scenicbyway]

Well, that was awkward, all the way around.  Why would Cam go to lunch with Katherine and the boys? Because she's contractually obligated to.  Why is Landon asking Thomas to dinner and wearing a date dress only to tell him their "just friends"?  Who knows, I mean it seems like Landon doesn't know why she does things.

Naomi not giving Craig a medal for finishing a degree he should've had 4 years ago?  Great!  Naomi's right, either get yourself together or do something?

Cheltsie is going to get everyone in her chair this season, isn't she?  Back for round two, Shep seems to finally realize this isn't going to work because she doesn't to marry...ever?

[breezy424]

There's always been a double standard when it has come to TRav and Kathryn.  I'm looking at you Patricia, Whitney, Cam and Landon.  TRav was an equal partner with these two pregnancies.  TRav went to prison and was disgraced as an official with a state position.  He has gone on drunken rages (see last season).  He has publicly stated about 'stock' and women who he aspires to as a genetic mother of his children.  Apparently that's ok because he has money and has a 'family' name.

Kathryn gets accused of being a gold digger.  Um.  If that is what it was, what was TRav?  He was a fifty something year old that was a willing partner.  Twice.  But that's ok with Pat, Whit, Cam and Giggles.

On another note...IMO, Whitney was hooking up with Kathryn.  She was staying at the house.  Was it a couple of days?  So what.  He was into her.  She dropped him for TRav.  Whitney lied about it.  And then told TRav the truth.  I do think Whitney was hurt.  Sorry, he's a forty something year old who was getting attention from a pretty, young twenty something year old.  She dumped him.  Kathryn saw it as something 'casual'.  Not Whitney.  He was the one who was hurt.  What pissed Kathryn off was that Whitney lied about it.  

Kathryn is screwed up.  So is TRav.  So is Whitney, Shep and the rest of the 'single' people.  Unfortunately, Kathryn developed a drug problem.  I hope she works it out for herself and more importantly for her children.  But before certain people cast their horror at Kathryn, they should take a look at their own lives.

On a shallow note, I liked Craig's golfing pants.  I love a preppy look.  It beats a lot of other fashion looks out there.  At least he looks 'clean'.   I'll go back to the other side of the pool.

[sasha206]

11 hours ago, LucyHoneychrrch said:

I know alcoholics who care, and I know alcoholics who do not.   There isn't a blanket statement that covers everyone.  I do think, however, that it would have been considerate for the rest of the table to abstain from alcohol in Kathryn's presence.  It was lunch, for God's sake.  Just ... hold on until the sun's over the yardarm, guys.

I totally agree with this.  It's not like they were all attending an evening function with an open bar.  And frankly, if you can't go to lunch and refrain from drinking, maybe you have a problem yourself.  I enjoy the occassional buzzed lunch, but if I was going out with someone who just went through rehab, I'd be just fine sipping an iced tea.

[sasha206]

14 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm no Craig fan, but, I did feel a little sting when he got the Naomi treatment.  lol TO ME, it's clear that she is so over this guy.  I'm not sure if I am reading her right, but, it appears that there is just too much aggravation, pain, lies, BS, or whatever you call it with Craig, so that she has reached a saturation point.  I can't see a recovery for that.  And maybe, there shouldn't be.  Some things aren't meant to be, regardless of what the psychic predicted. lol  Naomi knows the kind of person that Craig is.  How likely will he stop being that kind of person?  I suspect she knows the answer and that's one reason she seems to be ticked off.

And yet I feel like if she could be assured he'd take and pass the bar exam, all would be forgiven.  I think it's a status thing she's after.   If he's not going to end up passing the bar exam, I bet once the show's over she's outta there.  

Edited May 31, 2017 by sasha206

[izabella]

10 hours ago, Sun-Bun said:

I feel the exact same way about Landon: she may grate on my nerves and have a snooty/lazy streak, but I don't hate the gal. And she was actually very kind and welcoming to Kathryn until Kathryn turned on her with little provocation at that one political event of Thomas's she crashed, back when she told Landon to F off before giving her the finger. And I actually would've reacted much the same way as Landon did over that bitch move, with a shocked look and her astonished "Classy!" remark. Kathryn's undeservedly treated her like shit ever since that one event, so I don't blame Landon one iota for not wanting anything more to do with her nutty ass.

As for her sad weepy date with her younger dude though, I truly did feel for her as well. I wasn't much younger than her when I was still quite single and drifting along feeling lonely and incomplete((found my unicorn I later married by age 34)). It's a tough place to be in, especially when you're a 35-year-old female divorcée having to compete with younger women for quality male attention---I'm sure it's twice as rough on a gal like her in a small town like Charleston, although I know she lives PT in LA as well, which is likely just as tough dating-wise in a completely different way. 

Half of her hippie-dipped affectations and flirting is likely due to generally low self-esteem or a facade she keeps up as her natural shield against getting hurt or showing that sad and vulnerable side. She strikes me as someone who's probably a lot more hurt inside by her past than she's willing to show anyone else---much like T-Rav.

Landon would have a better chance of meeting a quality man if she showed more quality herself.  Hanging around TRav and Shep and fake-working isn't going to get her to that quality man.  Maybe if she gave more of herself to something worthwhile, someone worthwhile, someone of quality would see that in her.  As it stands, a quality man won't find much quality in Landon, just a pretty, giggling girl.  For some people, like TRav, that might be enough, but not for a quality man.

[jumper sage]

10 hours ago, AttackTurtle said:

 

It took Craig three years to write a paper and he lied for at least two years about graduating from law school.  I can understand not popping the champagne, but Naomi could have been more encouraging.  Her reaction told me that she doesn't respect Craig; hence I'm not sure why she stays in the relationship.

 

I agree completely!

3 hours ago, b2H said:

They all know which side the bread is buttered on.  They will continue to suck up to Thomas.

I state this every season:  Thomas is still the "vendor" to this group and you always suck up to the dealer.

11 hours ago, slowpoked said:

And I'm on the side of maybe they could spare a few hours of lunch or so in being courteous to the recovering alcoholic and refrain from getting alcohol. C'mon Shep, it's only 2-3 hours. I'm sure your liver will survive.

I don't even get the whole discussion.  I agree with you on this and would take it even further.  This group of people seem to not be able to get through the day without a drink.  I find it very weird.  In my family and circle of friends, we don't drink at a child's birthday party.  This past holiday weekend my brother had his annual holiday/birthday pool party.  He lives on a nice slice of 4 acres with 3 acres cleared, a pool, winding brook with a foot bridge etc.  We figured out no one thought to even bring beer and no one really cared.  We aren't anti drinking but merely it does not rule our lives and a holiday without a beer doesn't bother anyone.  Between interacting with children you don't see as often as you would like, to discussing how college is going for that group of kids, to remarking on the bridal shower and upcoming wedding, to laying out or swimming in the pool to our newest rage, drones.  Drones are so cool and with all that acreage the little ones were running all over chasing them.

[methodwriter85]

15 hours ago, eurekagirl mOo said:

Never felt as bad for Craig as I did watching this. His GF is a straight up bitch. Christ he was SO excited and she just threw ice water all over him! SO it took a long time, big deal, not everybody matures or knows what they want in their 20's or even 30's. It was a HUGE accomplishment and he sure deserved better then that nasty, basic bitch answer from her. You could SEE the hurt on his face!

I love dogs and caftans but those ones of Pats were UGLY....

I think I get why Naomi was underwhelmed. It was something Craig should've had done years ago, and Craig gets enough hugboxing from his parents.

Unfortunately, I don't think Craig is ever really going to be an ambitious go-getter, which is clearly what she wants. He's good at pretending he is, but yeah.

I had to laugh at Landon going all aghast at her "boyfriend" saying he was born in 1995. (Well, really 1989.) Girl, I'm currently crushing on K.J. Apa, who was really born in 1997 when you were already in high school. Get over it. You can legally have consenting sex with someone born in 1998/1999 now.

[Nancypants]

So, Bravo comes to Landon and says, Ok here is your story arc..We are going to make you look like a really Dumb desperate Loser.

Response .. " " OMG, Thennnnkkkkkquuueeewwww"

Edited May 31, 2017 by Nancypants

[kitten59]

Quote

zoeysmom said:

Naomie should be done with her studies this summer, I will be interested to see what she does with her degree.   Maybe she can find someone more suited to her.  I am sure there are candidates lined up around the block waiting for a chance at Naomie and her sparkling personality.

Yeah, I don't hate Naomie but she has about as much personality as a wet rag. I also don't find her as stunning as some seem to. Rather plain, with a smashed nose.

[robroy]

Just because Craig passed the Bar does not mean he is going to develop ambition. Shep has an MBA and he certainly hasn't set the business world afire. The diference is Craig seems to really crave some level of adulation and is a bit of a faker. Shep has a more going on that he puts out there but is fine with the mailbox money persona. I think what will doom Naomi and Craig is that she is entirely too Tracy Flick and he is a try-hard with a questionable work ethic. Those two personas are not a match. Its why whatever annoyance one produces half of us find fault in one, half in the other.

Its Kathryn's job to set parameters for both the level of drinking she can be around and the people/situations where she places herself. She has to control her stress/triggers/responses as much as the alcohol/drugs themselves. That's why leaving rehab for a reality show and taking no break from reality tv reads as a major blunder to me.

[Nancypants]

The name of this show should be " men treating women like shit"

[Major Bigtime]

The look on Kathryn's face when Shep and Craig ordered beer said it all for me. She was perturbed, and anxious.

[TheFinalRose]

Quote

On another note...IMO, Whitney was hooking up with Kathryn.  She was staying at the house.  Was it a couple of days?  So what.  He was into her.  She dropped him for TRav.  Whitney lied about it.  And then told TRav the truth.  I do think Whitney was hurt.  Sorry, he's a forty something year old who was getting attention from a pretty, young twenty something year old.  She dumped him.  Kathryn saw it as something 'casual'.  Not Whitney.  He was the one who was hurt. 

Oh he's still into her. Did you notice at the lunch how easily Whitney cracked up at her one-liners? It's like he can't help himself, once he's in her presence he's fixated on her. He'll deny it now, because she's considered poison, and Pat would be pissed, but he is so into her, still.

As for Naomi, I read the forums before I watched the episode, but her reaction was worse then I expected it to be. She went from being happy that Craig had asked her out to dinner to completely dead in her expression when he made the big announcement that he had passed the writing portion. She obviously has no chill with the way he dropped completing the law school requirement and isn't going to give him a trophy for finishing up. Who knows if he would have even completed the writing without her urging?  I have to give the girl credit for not being an enabler, she is a strong example of that. According to her instagram her and Craig are still together and happy, so the dynamic must be working in the long run. 

Quote

The difference is Craig seems to really crave some level of adulation and is a bit of a faker. 

I think I remember Craig saying that he was always one of those straight A students where things came easily for him. But once school and sports are over, where does the adulation come from in the adult world? It was time for him to settle down and work for it, but that didn't work with the partying he liked to do. I wonder what triggered him to not complete his writing requirement? You don't get to three years post college successfully and then flop like that without some mental sea change, and I am still not sure what it was. It seemed like it was before the show started. 

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, robroy said:

Just because Craig passed the Bar does not mean he is going to develop ambition. Shep has an MBA and he certainly hasn't set the business world afire. The diference is Craig seems to really crave some level of adulation and is a bit of a faker. Shep has a more going on that he puts out there but is fine with the mailbox money persona. I think what will doom Naomi and Craig is that she is entirely too Tracy Flick and he is a try-hard with a questionable work ethic. Those two personas are not a match. Its why whatever annoyance one produces half of us find fault in one, half in the other.

Its Kathryn's job to set parameters for both the level of drinking she can be around and the people/situations where she places herself. She has to control her stress/triggers/responses as much as the alcohol/drugs themselves. That's why leaving rehab for a reality show and taking no break from reality tv reads as a major blunder to me.

Even not pursuing law for two years Craig had a high paying job.  I thought far stupider of Craig was to blow $30k in the JD company.   Craig has his own plan for mailbox money and even when he invests in a rental Naomie isn't happy and questions his choices because he did not follow her advice.  It was pretty clear, he wanted to buy a rental property with tenants and just transfer the lease.  That would seem like a reasonable investment, involved some planning and not a lot of day to day work.  I believe at times Naomie tries too hard to be disgusted with Craig. It is no longer believable that she stays with him when there is such a visceral dislike coming from her about all things Craig.

There is a component to Craig and the delay in finishing his course work.  Apparently, until the school changed ownership he was not allowed to complete the required work.  It sounded to me as if Craig applied to take the bar (last season) with a provisional request and it was denied.  So his application from 2015 was in place when he decided to take the bar in February of 2017.  I found Craig to be quite realistic, he felt going into to taking the bar exam he was prepared but was also realistic enough to realize he might not pass and was prepared to take it a second time. 

Although insensitive, Kathryn has made no mentioned Craig and Shep drinking in front of her.  Many people nix going to rehab because they are worried about losing their job.  Kathryn really doesn't have a lot of vocational options out there so this job is a great way for her to earn a living. I would much rather see her  working at reality TV than hoping for a big monthly payout from Thomas.   The actual filming of the show only encompasses about a total of four months and it isn't as if she is required to work everyday.  Her focus should be finishing her degree and finding a career.  I think a lot can be accomplished during the eight month downtime when the show is not filming. 

[sasha206]

4 hours ago, kitten59 said:

Yeah, I don't hate Naomie but she has about as much personality as a wet rag. I also don't find her as stunning as some seem to. Rather plain, with a smashed nose.

Agreed.  I haven't seen her ever exude a quality that would make me feel like "Gee, I'd love to hang out with her."  And while there are times I look at her and think she's just unconventionally pretty, I don't think that face is going to age well. 

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, TheFinalRose said:

She went from being happy that Craig had asked her out to dinner to completely dead in her expression when he made the big announcement that he had passed the writing portion.

That's because it was no longer about her. The dinner wasn't a nice gesture for her. It was about him celebrating. 

@zoeysmom What type of career do you think that Kathryn would excel at? At first I thought nursing as it's well paying but she doesn't seem to have the empathy and caring gene. I don't think that just an education degree would get her far (like a liberal arts degree). Nor does she seem like the type of woman who'd make a good teacher. I'm just flummoxed. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Mindthinkr
Added on

[sasha206]

11 hours ago, izabella said:

Landon would have a better chance of meeting a quality man if she showed more quality herself.  Hanging around TRav and Shep and fake-working isn't going to get her to that quality man.  Maybe if she gave more of herself to something worthwhile, someone worthwhile, someone of quality would see that in her.  As it stands, a quality man won't find much quality in Landon, just a pretty, giggling girl.  For some people, like TRav, that might be enough, but not for a quality man.

And of course, to me, I don't find Landon that pretty.  She looks weatherbeaten to me.  So when you combine living off your dad's money and being fairly aimless for a while until you pin your hopes on something that's been done a million times over (travel blog), what do you really bring to the table?  She doesn't strike you as particularly smart.  Her filter is certainly off.  She seems like she's heading down a path of emotional breakdown (crying over eggs?).  Seems like a wealthy man in Charleston could do much, much better.  Beautiful women are a dime a dozen there.

[mrs. rizzo]

We need to talk about Craig chewing tobacco during golf with Austen. It was a blink or you miss it window into Craig's creepy soul.

[zoeysmom]

43 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

That's because it was no longer about her. The dinner wasn't a nice gesture for her. It was about him celebrating. 

@zoeysmom What type of career do you think that Kathryn would excel at? At first I thought nursing as it's well paying but she doesn't seem to have the empathy and caring gene. I don't think that just an education degree would get her far (like a liberal arts degree). Nor does she seem like the type of woman who'd make a good teacher. I'm just flummoxed. 

I think Kathryn should get a communications/marketing degree.  I believe her original course of study was political science.  Kathryn would probably do well in sales, be it real estate, or maybe even working in an advertising agency.  She now has camera time down pat and has a working knowledge of filming and PR.  Kathryn should stay away from the RH path of wine, clothes and skincare.  I could really see her pitching an advertising campaign to clients, she doesn't have to be the creative but I do think she could be persuasive.  Having said that it would mean she is not the face of the ad but the brains behind it. 

Kathryn cannot be in the medical field because of the presence of drugs, so pharmaceutical sales would be out, I don't see her as a caregiver so no nursing and again the access to drugs would be problematic.  I don't think there is enough money in teaching for her and again I don't see her having compassion.  According to Katherine she has three years at University of South Carolina under her belt so it sounds as if she has the required studies under her belt.  College of Charleston offers marketing and communication degrees. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Who's next to sit in Cheltsie's chair?  I'm really getting sick of Cams' ratty looking extensions & Snowflake's lousy orangey color this season.  Can Cheltsie improve them?  The only one she seemed to do well with is Horseteeth.  And she has to cut his hair every 6 seconds so he doesn't look like Charlie Manson.  Could she do something for Whitney?  Probably not, unless she wants to sign on to be his next beard 

[JenE4]

I guess Landon's break-up with her young beau was recreated for the cameras, as they said it had been a while since they'd seen each other. Not to mention she set up a "date" (to discuss why they couldn't date?) with T-Rav prior to that. When Landon was saying T-Rav would have a ring on her finger pretty quickly, all I could think of is he led Kathryn to believe the same thing. I also get vibes of how Shep thought Chelsie would be waiting with bated breath for whenever he got around to dating her, and as soon as Austen closed that window, he was suddenly interested. If T-Rav moved onto someone else, Landon might go beating down the door of the guesthouse.

Craig had on a PERIWINKLE sweater when he was playing golf. Thank god Kathryn wasn't there or it might have been like when a bull sees red. Kathryn might go into fully psycho mode at the site of periwinkle!

[HunterHunted]

I'm sure Kathryn would love to be an apparel buyer, but she has terrible taste and her limited ability to empathize with others means she can never buy for a customer who isn't exactly like her. I think she'd do fine in medical device sales.

[Nancypants]

When Kathryn finds her path, I feel like she will be unstoppable. I want her to get some real achievements under her belt besides using her God given(unearned) good looks to model / rent space out in her uterus for rich n'er do wells. 

Real achievements /work ethic will give her the self esteem she needs to stop self destructing.

[robroy]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

There is a component to Craig and the delay in finishing his course work.  Apparently, until the school changed ownership he was not allowed to complete the required work.  It sounded to me as if Craig applied to take the bar (last season) with a provisional request and it was denied.  So his application from 2015 was in place when he decided to take the bar in February of 2017.  I found Craig to be quite realistic, he felt going into to taking the bar exam he was prepared but was also realistic enough to realize he might not pass and was prepared to take it a second time.  

Don't believe Craig on this one. I'm friends with someone in the administration of that law school and for all their drama they never stopped servicing students. They had students on multiple tracks and schedules making their way through the requirements and graduating/sitting for the bar outside the expected 3 year, fulltime student, summer Bar pattern.  His story is BS. Particularly if he said his 2015 application was valid. He would not have been eligible to sit in 2015 since his coursework was incomplete.

[gunderda]

That lunch kinda broke my heart knowing that Kathryn can't seem to get her shit straight :( 

I miss the witty Kathryn TH's! They're always so sad now.... 

[Major Bigtime]

1 hour ago, mrs. rizzo said:

We need to talk about Craig chewing tobacco during golf with Austen. It was a blink or you miss it window into Craig's creepy soul.

I caught that! HA!! Since we've never seen him smoking, now we know why.

Kathryn's first job was working in the state senate, which is where she found her first politically-connected boyfriend. Which wound up with her getting a mug shot. Her lack of empathy and sincere kindness towards others would wipe out any type of job where she has to interact with others. I don't know what she would excel at. Something that allowed her to work with the rich and powerful, otherwise she'd think it was beneath her. Her first priority is getting clean, and staying that way for a while before "finding" herself. If she can't accomplish that, a job would be a lost cause because she'd be missing work for being hungover or whatever. Working on herself first, then perhaps a job that allowed her to set her own hours and work when she wanted. Real estate sales might be a good path, provided she isn't working for a broker who sets sales goals.

[zoeysmom]

39 minutes ago, robroy said:

Don't believe Craig on this one. I'm friends with someone in the administration of that law school and for all their drama they never stopped servicing students. They had students on multiple tracks and schedules making their way through the requirements and graduating/sitting for the bar outside the expected 3 year, fulltime student, summer Bar pattern.  His story is BS. Particularly if he said his 2015 application was valid. He would not have been eligible to sit in 2015 since his coursework was incomplete.

I worded that poorly.  Craig said when Naomie asked about taking the Bar Exam he said he already had his application in.  He did not specify which application. It would seem rather futile to me to send another application in if he had not completed the coursework.  Unless of course he had an application ready to go and sent it in before he went to dinner with Naomie.  From Craig's explanation it sounded as if there was a delay in being granted the ability to finish his "thesis".  I cannot find the link but essentially he did not get approval to finish the "thesis" until August of 2016.  Craig mentioned a change in ownership of the law school.  If I had to wager a guess and it would be just a guess, Craig probably was given leave in 2014 and blew it off to pursue "Southern Charm".  After he moved back home, it sounded like he came back to Charleston in 2015, applied to take the bar and was denied because he had not truly graduated. 

During Craig's limbo time it appears the school was about to close and went through a restructuring.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_School_of_Law  Day-um, the law school could have had its own reality show.  I cannot go so far as to say Craig lied as it seems the school and its continuation was up in the air iincluding discussion of not accepting new students and finishing with the students currently enrolled. This all happened after Craig was granted a walk with the graduating class in 2014.  I would think the approval of the application would be subject to Craig satisfying the writing requirement.  It must have worked because he took the bar and passed.  Now if we could only find out if he has been sworn in.

Edited May 31, 2017 by zoeysmom

[RedDelicious]

15 hours ago, breezy424 said:

There's always been a double standard when it has come to TRav and Kathryn.  I'm looking at you Patricia, Whitney, Cam and Landon.  TRav was an equal partner with these two pregnancies.  TRav went to prison and was disgraced as an official with a state position.  He has gone on drunken rages (see last season).  He has publicly stated about 'stock' and women who he aspires to as a genetic mother of his children.  Apparently that's ok because he has money and has a 'family' name.

Kathryn gets accused of being a gold digger.  Um.  If that is what it was, what was TRav?  He was a fifty something year old that was a willing partner.  Twice.  But that's ok with Pat, Whit, Cam and Giggles.

I don't know...I don't see it as a double standard because we're not talking about apples and apples.  The playing field is by no means level.  Thomas has money and stable, lucrative employment.  Kathryn does not.  When you're supporting yourself and paying the price for your antics, nobody can really say anything about you except maybe that they don't like that sort of behavior.  And if you don't like it, don't associate yourself with the person you judge.  Kathryn is accused of being a gold digger because that's what she is.  She didn't finish college and in my opinion got herself knocked up by a rich guy (twice) so she could collect the financial support.  I've seen it happen plenty of times in real life, as have the rest of us.  Maybe there ain't no shame in that game, but to me there is.

Edited May 31, 2017 by RedDelicious
Thomaaaaaaaaaaaaas

[izabella]

53 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

I caught that! HA!! Since we've never seen him smoking, now we know why.

Kathryn's first job was working in the state senate, which is where she found her first politically-connected boyfriend. Which wound up with her getting a mug shot. Her lack of empathy and sincere kindness towards others would wipe out any type of job where she has to interact with others. I don't know what she would excel at. Something that allowed her to work with the rich and powerful, otherwise she'd think it was beneath her. Her first priority is getting clean, and staying that way for a while before "finding" herself. If she can't accomplish that, a job would be a lost cause because she'd be missing work for being hungover or whatever. Working on herself first, then perhaps a job that allowed her to set her own hours and work when she wanted. Real estate sales might be a good path, provided she isn't working for a broker who sets sales goals.

I'm confused on why anyone thinks she would be the least bit interested in ANY job.  She doesn't want to work.  She wants to be rich with people catering to her every need.  I also don't think she would be good at any job since she isn't even capable of being there for her children...she's going to be responsible for a job?  Maybe she could be a manicurist or make-up counter sales person, but there is still the problem of her actually showing up to work every day, on time, sober, and earning little.

Landon isn't so different, except she might not show up drunk or high.  Craig is not too far behind them, tho he at least has two degrees and options.

Edited May 31, 2017 by izabella

[gunderda]

52 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

I caught that! HA!! Since we've never seen him smoking, now we know why.

I saw him and thought AWWWWWWWW not my craig!!!! :( :( :( 

Before Kathryn can get a job she REALLY needs to work on her poker face.  That girl does not hide her emotions well AT ALL. 

[izabella]

1 minute ago, gunderda said:

Before Kathryn can get a job she REALLY needs to work on her poker face.  That girl does not hide her emotions well AT ALL. 

She might want to finish her college degree, too.  She could be doing that right now, but isn't.

[psychoticstate]

First, and most importantly, YAY, Gizmo!  Gizmo had something to say to his "grandparents" and about Craig officially graduating from law school.  And was even rewarded with treats.  More, Gizmo, show.  More Gizmo.

Did Naomi even say congratulations to Craig?  Man, I felt sorry for him.  Yeah, he lied about it at one point but he did graduate so give him some credit.  When they split up, Craig totally needs to take custody of Gizmo.

So Thomas' dad wasn't necessarily going to come to his grandson's first birthday?  That's sad.  Especially since they live in the same city.

Can the show please spring for a vocal coach for Landon?  Someone needs to explain to her that not every statement needs to be made in the form of a question, with vocal fry, and a nervous giggle.  

How long before TRav and Kathryn hook up again?  They're both insane.

I love Home Goods. 

[Major Bigtime]

The bit about Thomas' dad not coming to the party really bothers me. I know this show is scripted, but surely they didn't cajole that old man into saying that for the show, did they? Thomas looked heartbroken, and I would be also. 

I'm liking that old codger less and less. Hell, I can't stand him!

[zoeysmom]

24 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

The bit about Thomas' dad not coming to the party really bothers me. I know this show is scripted, but surely they didn't cajole that old man into saying that for the show, did they? Thomas looked heartbroken, and I would be also. 

I'm liking that old codger less and less. Hell, I can't stand him!

Not being an apologist for the old man but he did say he would not attend IF the dentist pulled his tooth.  My parents are elderly and they treat doctor and dentist appointments very seriously, as if no one has ever rescheduled an appointment.  I am not fond of the guy and read the disappointment in Thomas' face, so apparently Thomas is somewhat use to it.

[NeverLate]

19 hours ago, biakbiak said:

He is a 90 year old retiree who's only commitment on that day was a dentist appointment.

He seemed like he has dementia to me, very much like my late grandfather .

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I'm confused on why anyone thinks she would be the least bit interested in ANY job.  She doesn't want to work.  She wants to be rich with people catering to her every need.  I also don't think she would be good at any job since she isn't even capable of being there for her children...she's going to be responsible for a job?  Maybe she could be a manicurist or make-up counter sales person, but there is still the problem of her actually showing up to work every day, on time, sober, and earning little.

Landon isn't so different, except she might not show up drunk or high.  Craig is not too far behind them, tho he at least has two degrees and options.

I agree that Kathryn wants things handed to her and part of being a parent and an adult is being self-sufficient.  Whether she has full on custody of her children or limited she still needs to provide for HER children and more importantly herself.  It would not surprise to find out Thomas has structured his estate in such a way that one of his sisters has control of his estate and the most Kathryn is going to see is some social security for the children in the event of Thomas' death.  Imagine going through life and your biggest accomplishment is passing weekly and monthly drug tests.

[NeverLate]

Quote

Can the show please spring for a vocal coach for Landon? 

And can it be on another show? :)

[psychoticstate]

7 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

The look on Kathryn's face when Shep and Craig ordered beer said it all for me. She was perturbed, and anxious.

I don't like Kathryn whatsoever but if I were having lunch with a friend who had just completed rehab and was trying to get her life back on track, I would stick with a sweet tea, water or soda.  Of course these nitwits must have cocktails with everything and any day ending in a "y" is justification for inebriation.   Kathryn would do herself a favor by staying away from them.

[politichick]

8 hours ago, robroy said:

Just because Craig passed the Bar does not mean he is going to develop ambition. Shep has an MBA and he certainly hasn't set the business world afire. The diference is Craig seems to really crave some level of adulation and is a bit of a faker. Shep has a more going on that he puts out there but is fine with the mailbox money persona. I think what will doom Naomi and Craig is that she is entirely too Tracy Flick and he is a try-hard with a questionable work ethic. Those two personas are not a match. Its why whatever annoyance one produces half of us find fault in one, half in the other.

Its Kathryn's job to set parameters for both the level of drinking she can be around and the people/situations where she places herself. She has to control her stress/triggers/responses as much as the alcohol/drugs themselves. That's why leaving rehab for a reality show and taking no break from reality tv reads as a major blunder to me.

Craig does indeed have a questionable work ethic and I did not fault Naomie for doing cartwheels for something he should have done ages ago and lied about having done. I'm glad she doesn't coddle him because goodness knows how many hobbies he would go through before doing something substantive if she did. 

I did laugh when he told Austen that she said Chelsea is a good ol' boy inside the body of a beautiful woman or something like that, which I think is a pretty accurate assessment.

Say what you will about Thomas, but it looks to me like he is trying to be a good father and that it's evident by the way those children respond to him. I also like that the birthday party he has planned for Saint is not some silly, elaborate affair that he won't remember, but something simple in a park with bunnies and cats (although I don't get the cats part, eww, but maybe the baby likes them). 

[Mindthinkr]

11 minutes ago, politichick said:

something simple in a park with bunnies and cats (although I don't get the cats part, eww, but maybe the baby likes them). 

Yes, until the kitten bites or scratches one of them. Cats by nature are not cuddly child friendly creatures. They'd been better off with puppies. 

[RedDelicious]

p.s. Craig finished his writing requirement for law school but he still doesn't know the difference between "graduated law school" and "graduated FROM law school."

[sasha206]

18 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I think I get why Naomi was underwhelmed. It was something Craig should've had done years ago, and Craig gets enough hugboxing from his parents.

Unfortunately, I don't think Craig is ever really going to be an ambitious go-getter, which is clearly what she wants. He's good at pretending he is, but yeah.

But she's choosing to be with someone that she has to prod and push.  If you are going to be on someone's ass constantly to get things done, at least pretend to be excited when they succeed.  It's like getting on someone to lose weight and they say, "I finally lost the 20 pounds" and you say, "Congrats.  Took you long enough.  When are you going to lose your next 10?"  

I think Craig has probably been pushed by everyone to get into law school and did so without any true desire.  Maybe he's not sure if he wants to be a practicing lawyer.  Maybe he's trying different things out to see what his passion is.  If that's not good enough for Naomi, she should date someone else.  I personally think she likes to have the upper hand on him and make him feel like he's just not really good enough yet.

[Major Bigtime]

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I don't like Kathryn whatsoever but if I were having lunch with a friend who had just completed rehab and was trying to get her life back on track, I would stick with a sweet tea, water or soda.  Of course these nitwits must have cocktails with everything and any day ending in a "y" is justification for inebriation.   Kathryn would do herself a favor by staying away from them.

As someone I love dearly who's clean and sober now always says... "If you hang around a barbershop long enough, you'll eventually get a haircut." And if Kathryn continues to socialize with people who drink all the time, she will slip. As she has in the past months since filming wrapped. 

[scrb]

Of course, Craig didn't decide on an impromptu dinner to celebrate this milestone.

The show production crew had to set up cameras at the restaurant ahead of time.  They probably had to find a restaurant willing to let them film inside.  So all that could have taken some days to set up.

Then they probably kind of had an idea of what they would be saying to each other before the logistics were finalized.  Or I wouldn't put it past the producers to feed them lines.  Or worse still, maybe egg on the on-camera talent to express a certain attitude or emotion.

If you watch unREAL, you see how producers play mind games and manipulate the "talent" to elicit certain reactions on camera.

Now, maybe Craig and Naomi weren't manipulated into being cross with each other.  Maybe they just told them to pretend to be pissed with each other and they willingly played their roles.