Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[loki567]

7 hours ago, QuinnM said:

They are LOLing all the way to the bank.  The ratings are great.  The publicity that things like this petition garner is priceless.  You could do your thesis on how to generate buzz in a viral world based on this season of GoT.  It’s exactly what they wanted.  And on top of that I bet they still get plenty of Emmys and GGlobes.  They’ve popped the champs and are laughing their asses off.

I sincerely doubt that. HBO is still basing its future around Thrones' spinoffs, this could hurt the overall value of the franchise. I'm pretty sure they would have preferred universal acclaim. Ratings and publicity were guaranteed for the final season, now they're more concerned with what the impact could be on season 1 of Bloodmoon. 

And I'm wondering what's going through the minds of Disney executives right now. Season 8 backlash has a similar feel to the Rian Johnson/TLJ firestorm. And while it's very arguable if TLJ led to Solo bombing, it definitely spooked Disney enough to scuttle their stand-alone SW films and try to go for a trilogy approach. Which ironically lead them to D&D. 

And if now D&D come with their own major baggage... 

Edited May 18, 2019 by loki567

[raven]

We are nearly at the end and though the spoilers are controversial, let's stick on topic with discussing just the spoilers and not criticizing other fans and their reactions to them.  

[dreamcatcher]

I don’t like Isaac’s attitude. First of all, tv careers are made by fans whether you like it or not, and yes that means you should leave them satisfied at the end. That doesn’t mean they had to deliver a disney-esque finale but this is a mess. And if it’s truly the book ending as well, then i understand why Martin can’t finish them.

I feel sorry for all the book fans who spent 20 years of their lives waiting for the reveal of Jon’s parentage that didn’t actually amount to anything. And since D&D already knew that, why did they make such a big deal out of it? We’ve had more scenes discussing the importance of this reveal than proping up Jonerys. Then basically, we spent 7 seasons waiting for them to rise, but eventually both of them get crappy endings. And Jon got ressurected to just brood for 2 more seasons? Aand if you know that Bran will end up as the most important character, you don’t write him off the show for a whole season. I doubt he has a legit fanbase as a character, and i personally don’t give a damn about a mysterious raven/tree who hasn’t given us that much overall, given also that this ‘character’ basically killed Bran Stark. Bran as a character got the worst ending: attempted murder, crippledom, separated from his family and then his last brother, then lost his carers and during his ‘end’ he was forced to see exactly how the rest of his family was murdered or abused. Yes, such a great story! And I’m supposed to like the 3ER for what reason exactly?

So yeah, maybe Isaac truly feels this is deserved, but I’m glad people are lashing out on D&D. Their job was to make the end satisfying and they destroyed it by making all the wrong storytelling choices. They deserve the criticism.

[Chaser]

If fans are entitled to dramatic gestures designed to humiliate, then the people who put their actual blood sweat and tears into the product are entitled to say ‘fuck that’.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Chaser

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, rmontro said:

Someone said the spoilers say he grabs her in his talons.  But from what we've seen dragons launch themselves into the air with their feet.  The way I pictured it, he gently picks her up in his mouth.  That would probably be more difficult CGI than using his feet though.

People keep talking about Drogon laying eggs in Valyria.  If I'm not mistaken, we don't really know Drogon's gender.  All the dragons are named after males though.  Anyway, even if they can change genders, who is the father?  If there are other dragons in Valyria, he could just as easily impregnate a female dragon, and she could have the eggs.

In any case, I don't expect to see Drogon again on the show after he flies off with Dany.

I believe they will become one sex or the other based on need. It isn’t completely unreasonable that parthenogenisis comes into play. If Drogon had been alone when they became a sexual adult it might make sense. If the NK or similar is back ot makes sense there will be more dragons? Sort of sense. 

[Eyes High]

3 hours ago, loki567 said:

I sincerely doubt that. HBO is still basing its future around Thrones' spinoffs, this could hurt the overall value of the franchise. I'm pretty sure they would have preferred universal acclaim. Ratings and publicity were guaranteed for the final season, now they're more concerned with what the impact could be on season 1 of Bloodmoon. 

And I'm wondering what's going through the minds of Disney executives right now. Season 8 backlash has a similar feel to the Rian Johnson/TLJ firestorm. And while it's very arguable if TLJ led to Solo bombing, it definitely spooked Disney enough to scuttle their stand-alone SW films and try to go for a trilogy approach. Which ironically lead them to D&D. 

And if now D&D come with their own major baggage... 

A backlash to the finale will absolutely kill the spinoff. (And “Bloodmoon” is a terrible name; it sounds like a YA vampire/werewolf romance.) The same thing happened with How I Met Your Mother.

I think the bigger writing sin between Mad Queen Dany and King Bran is King Bran. Even the most ardent Dany fan will admit that there were signs that this could happen. With Bran, there was nothing before 8x04, and even that was flimsy. Even then, “Mostly I live in the past” is really not something you want to hear from your king, and yet the person who convinces everyone that King Bran is a good idea is the same person who heard Bran say this! Who hears "Mostly I live in the past" and thinks "Yeah, this person is definitely the best choice to rule Westeros"? The writers also had Bran insist he can't be lord of anything because he's the 3ER, which seems like an incredibly bizarre choice if indeed he ends up as the king. They had eight seasons to tee this up and did nothing. Nothing! There’s shock value, and then there’s random bullshit.

...I could buy Tyrion backing Bran as king, despite knowing he's useless except as a historical resource, if he suspected that Bran would make him Hand and it was all part of a power play to take over, but that seems more like a Book Tyrion move. TV Tyrion is this noble, saintly character who truly wants to make Westeros a better place and wouldn't back someone unless he honestly believed that they were the right choice as a leader, and given that Tyrion has heard Bran say that he doesn't want anything (not just the lordship of Winterfell, but anything) and that he mostly lives in the past, I don't see how he could possibly believe that.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Eyes High

[HighwayFlower]

They had the option to make a longer season and chose not too, so they get no A for effort from me. Their choice led to a rushed and unsatisfying ending. Critic and fan response is part of TV. The hit to their writing reputation is deserved. 

[Stallion12]

10 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Yes, but according to 10-second YouTube clips, Emilia hated the season and hates D&D. Also Peter Dinklage looked up at a reporter which means he was rolling his eyes about GoT. Also Kit Harington was completely serious when he called the show disappointing. Also when the actors talk about crying or being emotional, it means they hate Game of Thrones. And D&D.

Even if the actors were not pleased with this season, I sincerely doubt they would be pleased with everyone trashing the show, with a fucking petition to redo it. That's their hard work too, and Game of Thrones has made many of their careers. 

They are trashing it, especially the actor who plays varys.

I still have a feeling some sort of sequel is coming. 

[Stallion12]

12 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

A backlash to the finale will absolutely kill the spinoff. (And “Bloodmoon” is a terrible name; it sounds like a YA vampire/werewolf romance.) The same thing happened with How I Met Your Mother.

I think the bigger writing sin between Mad Queen Dany and King Bran is King Bran. Even the most ardent Dany fan will admit that there were signs that this could happen. With Bran, there was nothing before 8x04, and even that was flimsy. Even then, “Mostly I live in the past” is really not something you want to hear from your king, and yet the person who convinces everyone that King Bran is a good idea is the same person who heard Bran say this! Who hears "Mostly I live in the past" and thinks "Yeah, this person is definitely the best choice to rule Westeros"? The writers also had Bran insist he can't be lord of anything because he's the 3ER, which seems like an incredibly bizarre choice if indeed he ends up as the king. They had eight seasons to tee this up and did nothing. Nothing! There’s shock value, and then there’s random bullshit.

...I could buy Tyrion backing Bran as king, despite knowing he's useless except as a historical resource, if he suspected that Bran would make him Hand and it was all part of a power play to take over, but that seems more like a Book Tyrion move. TV Tyrion is this noble, saintly character who truly wants to make Westeros a better place and wouldn't back someone unless he honestly believed that they were the right choice as a leader, and given that Tyrion has heard Bran say that he doesn't want anything (not just the lordship of Winterfell, but anything) and that he mostly lives in the past, I don't see how he could possibly believe that.

The problem with Danny was tgey made her an antihero who did bad things to those who were villains, then she became a supervillian. They kept pushing she's not her father, and flipped her to  becoming him. Fans are split on it, but  between that, Jamie switching to season one again, and John being an extra. It's ruining characters built up for 6 seasons.

Add in bran, who spent his time meeting the 3er,  skips an entire season, gains the powers, and barely does anything,  now he's king? And tyrion who all of a sudden starts trusting cersi again stays trusted to be hand?

It just doesn't work for the story they told. I get tgey didn't have anymore books, but tgey had the ending, so they could have built towards it throughout. Tgey didnt.

[Chaser]

I have no problem who fans expressing displeasure. I have a massive problem with a petition designed to do nothing but hurt. They can’t turn back the clock and they can’t redo the season. All they want out of this petition is to humiliate GOT. They want them (and thousands of others) to get fired from their new jobs. 

Is the final season feel rushed? Yes. Is the writing flawed? Yes. But you can’t convince me this is about the quality of writing. It’s about fans who aren’t getting the ending they wanted. 

[Stallion12]

12 hours ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Yikes. How bad is this thing going to be?

Probably be known as the worst season finale in history.

[ShellsandCheese]

The saddest part is that the show has actually become very predictable and telegraphed. What’s more predictable then “good guys” win and things stay the same? It’s like D&D have taken two tracks total predictability on one hand - and then doing things that don’t really fit into the established narrative just for shock. It’s like two extremes and it’s resulted in a lackluster final season for many. 

Even the spoiled ending seems really predictable a man as King, an advisory council full of men.....more of the same old same old.

But you can’t convince me this is about the quality of writing. It’s about fans who aren’t getting the ending they wanted.

I humbly disagree. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by ShellsandCheese

[Eyes High]

8 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I have no problem who fans expressing displeasure. I have a massive problem with a petition designed to do nothing but hurt. They can’t turn back the clock and they can’t redo the season. All they want out of this petition is to humiliate GOT. They want them (and thousands of others) to get fired from their new jobs. 

Is the final season feel rushed? Yes. Is the writing flawed? Yes. But you can’t convince me this is about the quality of writing. It’s about fans who aren’t getting the ending they wanted. 

I think it can be both. TLJ didn't give fans what they wanted (heroic Luke, cool Rey parentage reveal, etc.), but it was also a terribly written movie with several notable examples of bad writing. Both factored into the backlash.

Although it leaves me in the minority, I don't have any big problem with the writing in S8, I've never had any big problem with the writing on the show, and I quite enjoyed the episodes everyone else seems to hate, but even I can't defend King Bran.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Eyes High

[Stallion12]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I have no problem who fans expressing displeasure. I have a massive problem with a petition designed to do nothing but hurt. They can’t turn back the clock and they can’t redo the season. All they want out of this petition is to humiliate GOT. They want them (and thousands of others) to get fired from their new jobs. 

Is the final season feel rushed? Yes. Is the writing flawed? Yes. But you can’t convince me this is about the quality of writing. It’s about fans who aren’t getting the ending they wanted. 

The first petition I saw started around episode 3. Don't know if it's the same one, but there were no hints at the time of the terrible direction the show is going.

[Francie]

12 hours ago, stagmania said:

It’s true and it’s honestly mind blowing. I’ve never seen creators treat their own protagonist so poorly. 

It was shockingly immature, and I get that the cast and crew don’t want to bite the hand that feeds them, but I’m surprised more people haven’t called them out about that. I’m surprised more critics haven’t either. But 99% of the press GoT has gotten has been PR-like fluff pieces. Nearly all the criticism has been left to youtube and the rest of social media. 

[Stallion12]

9 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I have friend, ever the optimist, who thinks someone leaked legitimate spoilers for episode 4-5 along with fake spoilers for 6. That way when the leaks from 4-5 came to pass, people would believe the leaks for 6 are also true even though they are not. And then we’d all be shocked by what really happens in the final episode.  I admire his optimism but I don’t think anyone who was helming GoT is that clever. 

ETA: The more I think about it, they should have ended the series with Dany destroying King’s Landing, killing Jon, Tyrion, and everybody who opposed her, and then taking the throne while Drogon roared behind her. Or she simply melts the throne and proclaims a new era in Westeros. That would have been amazing ending. 

While I doubt it'll be that good, I wonder if they use the alternate ending filmed since they see the backlash. And backlash can kill a spinoff, like others said how I met your father got canceled after the backlash to how I met your mother.

Just now, Francie said:

It was shockingly immature, and I get that the cast and crew don’t want to bite the hand that feeds them, but I’m surprised more people haven’t called them out about that. I’m surprised more critics haven’t either. But 99% of the press GoT has gotten has been PR-like fluff pieces. Nearly all the criticism has been left to youtube and the rest of social media. 

Seceral mainstream articles have been blasting the season, ive never seen that for a show before.

[BooBear]

18 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Is the final season feel rushed? Yes. Is the writing flawed? Yes. But you can’t convince me this is about the quality of writing. It’s about fans who aren’t getting the ending they wanted. 

I disagree as well. The petition is up to a million signatures now... that is a lot of people. I don't like having this season put down to "rushing" the problems were apparent in season 7 but we gave them a pass because we assumed that season 8 would be good.  But imho the show runners had ideas in their head for each story line but didn't know how to get there and they just slap dashed it together.  Remember there was a TON of filler in seasons 7 and 8 that was just useless.

People say "it took 2 years to do this?" well of course, the two years wasn't to do GOT, it was so that the cast and crew could work on other things! This was likely the way they would all agree to come back for the 8th season. 

I also suspect that *something* happened with the writing staff. Perhaps some people left early and didn't return for season 8. Season 7 wasn't great but it still had some of the magic. This season did not. 

[HighwayFlower]

25 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Is the final season feel rushed? Yes. Is the writing flawed? Yes. But you can’t convince me this is about the quality of writing. It’s about fans who aren’t getting the ending they wanted. 

One could also argue the defenders are fans (mainly Dany haters) who ARE getting what they want.

I don’t think the majority is either though. There are ride or die fans of course, but most debates I have read conclude that they could have accepted the ending had it been executed properly and not such a mash job.

[Colorful Mess]

The writing was terrible for a while now, but no one protested it. Its only when a woman does something bad on TV? Is the petition calling for a more convincing build up for a "dark turn" for Dany, or is it calling for a complete rewrite? Those are two very different things.

For me in S8 the "bad writing" starts with everything centering around Dany, writing her as if she's the only POV that matters. We get her reaction to Jon's parentage, but not Arya's or Sansa's. Jon's POV is completely blocked. Then Jon had to be an "extra" because thats what Dany will only allow him to be. If he exerts his opinions, sides with his family, thinks about his parentage at all, questions Dany's orders, Dany is threatened. We get hints that he'd rather be staying in the North but of course he can't tell Dany that. He's such a loyal, perfect supplicant - exactly what Dany wants. People were happy Jon bent the knee without realizing there's really not a lot for Jon to do when he's a glorified servant. So at least killing her would be something like a step towards getting a personality.

One thing I did like though is that we didn't see Dany's reaction on Drogon as she slaughtered them. The POV was from the people on the ground, which is as it should be. 

[Stallion12]

12 minutes ago, HighwayFlower said:

One could also argue the defenders are fans (mainly Dany haters) who ARE getting what they want.

I don’t think the majority is either though. There are ride or die fans of course, but most debates I have read conclude that they could have accepted the ending had it been executed properly and not such a mash job.

Exactly, if they had bran do more, went into his powers, had him save them with them, show leadership skills people could buy it. If they didn't push Danny wasn't her father,  and had her gradually get worse after 6 years, it would be  better accepted. If John did stuff this season it would be cool. If varys and tyrion weren't morons most season, and if Jamie didn't forget his story arc, the ending could work. They didn't do any of that.

[Stallion12]

18 minutes ago, BooBear said:

I disagree as well. The petition is up to a million signatures now... that is a lot of people. I don't like having this season put down to "rushing" the problems were apparent in season 7 but we gave them a pass because we assumed that season 8 would be good.  But imho the show runners had ideas in their head for each story line but didn't know how to get there and they just slap dashed it together.  Remember there was a TON of filler in seasons 7 and 8 that was just useless.

People say "it took 2 years to do this?" well of course, the two years wasn't to do GOT, it was so that the cast and crew could work on other things! This was likely the way they would all agree to come back for the 8th season. 

I also suspect that *something* happened with the writing staff. Perhaps some people left early and didn't return for season 8. Season 7 wasn't great but it still had some of the magic. This season did not. 

Season 5 through 7 were eh, but they still had the characters being themselves, it was towards the end if season 7 that changed. Granted most of us forgave that, but then season 8 took 2 years and continued the spiral. It's almost like watching a spinoff fabric. Even Babylon 5, which had a terrible 5th season which felt like a spinoff, had the characters act like themselves. It's like watching another show with the sane characters.

[Stallion12]

8 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

The writing was terrible for a while now, but no one protested it. Its only when a woman does something bad on TV? Is the petition calling for a more convincing build up for a "dark turn" for Dany, or is it calling for a complete rewrite? Those are two very different things.

For me in S8 the "bad writing" starts with everything centering around Dany, writing her as if she's the only POV that matters. We get her reaction to Jon's parentage, but not Arya's or Sansa's. Jon's POV is completely blocked. Then Jon had to be an "extra" because thats what Dany will only allow him to be. If he exerts his opinions, sides with his family, thinks about his parentage at all, questions Dany's orders, Dany is threatened. We get hints that he'd rather be staying in the North but of course he can't tell Dany that. He's such a loyal, perfect supplicant - exactly what Dany wants. People were happy Jon bent the knee without realizing there's really not a lot for Jon to do when he's a glorified servant. So at least killing her would be something like a step towards getting a personality.

One thing I did like though is that we didn't see Dany's reaction on Drogon as she slaughtered them. The POV was from the people on the ground, which is as it should be. 

It's calling for a new season 8 done well and not rushed, it started around episode 3, picked up steam during episode 4, exploded after last week's episode.

[lucindabelle]

How I would LOVE for the spoilers to be wrong or incomplete. I would also do a kitty dance of joy if the backlash were intense enough that they used a different ending in haste. 

However: spoilers so far for season 7 finale (I had to read for fear of another dragon death) and season 8 have been right in major plot points, wrong only about things that didn’t matter much (drogon armor).

and the cast reaction- that clip of Emilia being ambivalent is so revealing, much more so even than conleth, because you see an actress struggling with towing party line and being honest— suggests the worst.

of course that said they’re could still rush and use another ending.

yes d&d have contracts and money. But don’t kid yourself: this stuff does matter. I loved HIMYM until the very end sorry the rushed cancer and aunt robin nonsense. It went against the very premise of the story- dad yelling bored kids a shaggy dog story. Mom should have been there in background. You just KNOW writers thought that reveal would be all clockwork and heartwarming. Anyway- the backlash will affect D&d. Contracts are likely at will. They can be fired or let go after one film. And the prequels will be affected too.

its kind of like whenever writers go into their crazy what if! They are just so wrong. What if the brother is alive all the time? What if the child killed his own parents? Any time writers go out of their way to pull a fast one on viewers it feels. M night shamalayan does it because the twist is planned from the very beginning. It’s amazing in “we were liars” for the very same reason.

it NEVER works on television because it’s never planned from beginning, so it demands we Ret con.

i fear the worst. Would love to be wrong.

Edited May 18, 2019 by lucindabelle

[Stallion12]

3 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

How I would LOVE for the spoilers to be wrong or incomplete. I would also do a kitty dance of joy if the backlash were intense enough that they used a different ending in haste. 

However: spoilers so far for season 7 finale (I had to read for fear of another dragon death) and season 8 have been right in major plot points, wrong only about things that didn’t matter much (drogon armor).

and the cast reaction- that clip of Emilia being ambivalent is so revealing, much more so even than conleth, because you see an actress struggling with rowing party line and being honest— suggests the worst.

of course that said they’re could still rush and use another ending.

yes d&d have contracts and money. But don’t kid yourself: this stuff does matter. I loved HIM until the very end sorry the rushed cancer and aunt robin nonsense. It went against the very premise of the story- dad yelling bored kids a shaggy dog story. Mom should have been there in background. You just KNOW writers thought that reveal would be all clockwork and heartwarming.

its kind of like whenever writers go into their crazy what if! They are just so wrong. What if the brother is alive all the time? What if the child killed his own parents? Any time writers go out of their way to pull a fast one on viewers it feels. M night shamalayan does it because the twist is planned from the very beginning. It’s amazing in “we were liars” for the very same reason.

it NEVER works on television because it’s never planned from beginning, so it demands we Ret con.

i fear the worst. Would love to be wrong.

I think most of us are hoping it's wrong. Not that we want a Disney ending, but something that closes tgevstory that they built up. I heard there's a sands as queen ending, if take that over bran. Still bad but built up towards .

[chrisvee]

IHW speaks like the actor whose character wins the game of thrones. He’s pretty much delivered the worst acting performance of the actors playing the major characters too.

[Colorful Mess]

2 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

It's calling for a new season 8 done well and not rushed, it started around episode 3, picked up steam during episode 4, exploded after last week's episode.

"Done well" though - Thats real subjective. "Petitioning" creative people to "redo" their work is just a silly idea overall. Mark Hamill is mocking it on twitter. If only people put this much effort petitioning actual social problems. 

[Edith]

2 hours ago, BooBear said:

I disagree as well. The petition is up to a million signatures now... that is a lot of people. I don't like having this season put down to "rushing" the problems were apparent in season 7 but we gave them a pass because we assumed that season 8 would be good.  But imho the show runners had ideas in their head for each story line but didn't know how to get there and they just slap dashed it together.  Remember there was a TON of filler in seasons 7 and 8 that was just useless.

People say "it took 2 years to do this?" well of course, the two years wasn't to do GOT, it was so that the cast and crew could work on other things! This was likely the way they would all agree to come back for the 8th season. 

I also suspect that *something* happened with the writing staff. Perhaps some people left early and didn't return for season 8. Season 7 wasn't great but it still had some of the magic. This season did not. 

You do realize that fake accounts and bots can sign the petition too, right? Also, the episode was watched by 12.48 million of people, and that’s only in the US. Not counting streams, legal or illegal...

Season 7 was a rushed as this one and this same fans were raving about the writing...

Edited May 18, 2019 by Edith

[Francie]

11 hours ago, QuinnM said:

They are LOLing all the way to the bank.  The ratings are great.  The publicity that things like this petition garner is priceless.  You could do your thesis on how to generate buzz in a viral world based on this season of GoT.  It’s exactly what they wanted.  And on top of that I bet they still get plenty of Emmys and GGlobes.  They’ve popped the champs and are laughing their asses off.

I get the concept of “there’s no such thing as bad PR,” because attention is attention. GoT had a ton of attention, though, before the tidal wave of fan unhappiness (for a variety of reasons, there’s no unified voice or reason why seemingly the vast majorly of fans are upset).  The official HBO twitter account doesn’t even have GoT on its banner right now — it’s promoting Big Little Lies. The account hasn’t tweeted about HBO in 4 days, and that was just to retweet info about The Last Watch documentary.  HBO had been using GoT to promote 7-day free viewerships, and saying, “If you’ve never watched GoT before, now is the time!” is a perfect teaser to try to hook people without HBO. But, nope, radio silence of late.

I have a real hard time imagining D&D laughing right now, just because they’ve made a lot of money and more accolades may come. They are being skewered in a way that has to be a huge ego-blow.  Benioff’s been turned into a meme (“I guess we forgot...”) that may give the show a run for its money in terms of longevity. 

And then there is the fan experience. I’m not one that thinks fans “deserve” any particular ending. That’s up to the creator to tell *their* story. And I actually expected Dany to do something vile this season (I thought it would be burning Lyanna Mormont with her dragon for Lyanna not bending the knee), but I still absolutely, positively hate this season. I’m seeing it through because it’s been a multi-year commitment and I want closure.

It’s sad when you look up the final installment with dread instead of anticipation.  I just want the hope that the final episode will be satisfying to be squashed, so that I can come to peace with the ending and move on. I’m not alone, I know, and that can’t possibly be the feeling that HBO wants its subscribers to have. At least, it shouldn’t be. 

I have no reason to doubt GoTit1111’s spoilers. That person’s been dead on right all along. So, unless HBO planted this person all for a final episode fake out (if that’s the case, well played, HBO, well played), Bran is King, Jon stabs Dany, Tyrion rules as hand, Bronn is master of coin, and Arya, Jon, and Sansa move on with their lives, is the ending. And all those nuggets of mystery — why did the WW put people into elaborate shapes?, etc. — were just mcguffins. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Francie

[Stallion12]

4 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

"Done well" though - Thats real subjective. "Petitioning" creative people to "redo" their work is just a silly idea overall. Mark Hamill is mocking it on twitter. If only people put this much effort petitioning actual social problems. 

Subjective sure, but it's not hard to do better than this season, the writing is terrible. And it's more an attempt to get HBO to make a new season, not with D@D. As far as Mark, I'm sure he's jump on the chance to play a better Luke. 

7 minutes ago, Edith said:

You do realize that’s fake accounts and bots can sign the petition too, right? Also, the episode was watched by 12.48 million of people, and that’s only in the US. Not counting streams, legal or illegal...

Season 7 was a rushed as this one and this same fans were raving about the writing...

Season 7 still until the past few episodes had the characters acting like themselves, and most of us let that go because we figured tgey were taking two years to do better. Instead they did worse. 

[Soup333]

12 hours ago, Stallion12 said:

Alone maybe not. But combined with Danny killed and bran as king, Martin might get his fear of the pitchforks comming.

That too, if he defeated her in battle, and bran wargs into Drogon helping him do it. The results work better. How it's outlined just sucks.

But a dragon is not a slave. I don’t think that would go over any better than the leaked ending. 

6 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Zagging when the audience expects zigging solely for the sake of zagging isn't necessarily a good thing.  Yes, Dany did good things, but how she was presented in S8E5 ensures that people won't remember her as a dark grey, flawed hero, but as a genocidal maniac who had to be put down.

Seems that was Emilia's concern when she made that comment about the lasting flavor of Daenerys’ character. 

[Stallion12]

9 minutes ago, Francie said:

I get the concept of “there’s no such thing as bad PR,” because attention is attention. GoT had a ton of attention, though, before the tidal wave of fan unhappiness (for a variety of reasons, there’s no unified voice or reason why seemingly the vast majorly of fans are upset).  The official HBO twitter account doesn’t even have GoT on its banner right now — it’s promoting Big Little Lies. The account hasn’t tweeted about HBO in 4 days, and that was just to retweet info about The Last Watch documentary.  HBO had been using GoT to promote 7-day free viewerships, and saying, “If you’ve never watched GoT before, now is the time!” is a perfect teaser to try to hook people without HBO. But, nope, radio silence of late.

I have a real hard time imagining D&D laughing right now, just because they’ve made a lot of money and more accolades may come. They are being skewered in a way that has to be a huge ego-blow.  Benioff’s been turned into a meme (“I guess we forgot...”) that may give the show a run for its money in terms of longevity. 

And then there is the fan experience. I’m not one that thinks fans “deserve” any particular ending. That’s up to the creator to tell *their* story. And I actually expected Dany to do something vile this season (I thought it would be burning Lyanna Mormont with her dragon for Lyanna not bending the knee), but I still absolutely, positively hate this season. I’m seeing it through because it’s been a multi-year commitment and I want closure.

It’s sad when you look up the final installment with dread instead of anticipation.  I just want the hope that the final episode will be satisfying to be squashed, so that I can come to peace with the ending and move on. I’m not alone, I know, and that can’t possibly be the feeling that HBO wants its subscribers to have. At least, it shouldn’t be. 

I have no reason to doubt GoTit1111’s spoilers. That person’s been dead on right all along. So, unless HBO planted this person all for a final episode fake out (if that’s the case, well played, HBO, well played), Bran is King, Jon stabs Dany, Tyrion rules as hand, Bronn is master of coin, and Arya, Jon, and Sansa move on with their lives, is the ending. And all those nuggets of mystery — why did the WW put people into elaborate shapes?, etc. — were just mcguffins. 

That's the reason I think HBO will create a sequel of sorts, they can't be happy with how this is turning out.

[Stallion12]

1 minute ago, Soup333 said:

But a dragon is not a slave. I don’t think that would go over any better than the leaked ending. 

Seems that was Emilia's concern when she made that comment about the lasting flavor of Daenerys’ character. 

Drogon isn't a slave, but I meant if you have this huge battle, pronoun forces vs pro Danny forces, bran wargs into Drogon to save John, and John takes out Danny who thinks she had him, it would work better then him losing to her and killing her. 

[Soup333]

4 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

That's the reason I think HBO will create a sequel of sorts, they can't be happy with how this is turning out.

A sequel with those that survived? How do you think that’ll fix what already happened? Genuine question. 

2 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

Drogon isn't a slave, but I meant if you have this huge battle, pronoun forces vs pro Danny forces, bran wargs into Drogon to save John, and John takes out Danny who thinks she had him, it would work better then him losing to her and killing her. 

Eh. Maaaaaaaayyybe some would go for that. I wouldn’t be a fan of Bran doing anything significant when he couldn’t warg into any one of the three dragons during the Battle of Winterfell. 

[BitterApple]

I disagree with Isaac's statement. Fans can feel however the hell they want to feel. Dany-lovers who think she got screwed, Dany-haters who are giggling with pleasure, Jon shippers pissed he's been reduced to a whiny extra, whatever. There's no right or wrong, just opinions of people who paid good money to watch a show and expected some effort to go into the writing. 

The fact that there's so much backlash from the entire spectrum is proof this thing's gone off the rails. Regarding the petition, I look at it as fans venting frustration rather than actual belief HBO is going to remake the season.

I watch a lot of YouTube reviews and podcasts, and across the board I've found everyone to be respectful and clear that their criticism isn't targeted towards the actors or the crew, so hopefully the cast doesn't take this personally. I get the vibe they're just ready to move on.

Edited May 18, 2019 by BitterApple

[Colorful Mess]

8 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

Subjective sure, but it's not hard to do better than this season, the writing is terrible. And it's more an attempt to get HBO to make a new season, not with D@D. As far as Mark, I'm sure he's jump on the chance to play a better Luke. 

D&D dont care, they're just rolling around in their piles of money. Instead, people could just boycott their future Star Wars franchise. At least folks could protest smarter that way. This is just dumb. A redo will never happen.

[Bianca Castafiore]

I find this petition thing childish and a sign of entitlement. But whatever if you see it as a way to releash your frustration it's ok by me, you do you. Unless you actually believe that it can work. In that case it's also stupid.

But projecting your frustration or your feelings to the actors it's a big no-no for me. Sure, some of them may not like the ending or the way their characters finished their journeys. But all off them have the right to defend their work or you know, actually... love it. They spent years on this show, some of them actuall grew up in it and they view their collegues and the people working on the set as family. To imply that they say what they say only because they are afraid for their future careers is frankly disrespectful. And I do hope, if the spoilers come true that people don't harass Isaac or Kit because they are incapable to separate the actor from the performance.

[chrisvee]

There is enough criticism of the writing amongst casuals, professionals, and online fans to catapult this to the worst series finale ever. That’s going to hurt D&D and the prequels. 

Since there was so much time and money spent on special effects and cinematography (hey we have a battle that looks like Helm’s Deep on the small screen and we firebomb a while city!) while the writing fell apart, its going to seem like a super cynical ploy to win Emmys and ratings while delivering a subpar product to loyal fans of both the show and the books.

King Bran? Who is the audience for that? Tyrion as hand after all his mistakes that contributed to Dany’s downfall? Sidelined then exiled murderer Jon?  Jaime back with Cersei after discarding Brienne? Crazy Dany?

I guess the Sansa and Arya fan base gets the sweet? The rest of the fan base gets the bitter? 

[Soup333]

19 minutes ago, Edith said:

You do realize that’s fake accounts and bots can sign the petition too, right? Also, the episode was watched by 12.48 million of people, and that’s only in the US. Not counting streams, legal or illegal...

Season 7 was a rushed as this one and this same fans were raving about the writing...

I think it’s the totality of criticism from fans and critics alike, as well as the general idea of the petition. I don’t believe HBO can just dismiss the whiny, entitled fans when they want those same people to continue to support the franchise. 

Since GoT was the only HBO show I watched, I already ended my sub. I can’t have been the only one. I’d argue that the reaction to this season is already having an impact on their bottom line and that’s why we have the damage control PR leak. 

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, Stallion12 said:

They are trashing it, especially the actor who plays varys.

I still have a feeling some sort of sequel is coming. 

Conleth Hill said he was a little frustrated with the last couple of seasons. That's hardly trashing it and it's certainly not focusing on this season. Actors, like fans, are perfectly within their rights to dislike the material. 

[BooBear]

30 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

I find this petition thing childish and a sign of entitlement.

A fan should be entitled. Was this show just made for art purposes? No it was made to attract fans. That is kind of a contract. A quid pro quo. We make this art so people will like it... if people like it, HBO, the creators and actors will benefit. In return they make a good show. Now, however, at the end, when they got what they wanted... the turn in a crap product and try to shame the fans who point out the bait and switch.  No different that any other product. Consumers have ever right to complain when the product is defective. 

[YaddaYadda]

25 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

Since GoT was the only HBO show I watched, I already ended my sub. I can’t have been the only one. I’d argue that the reaction to this season is already having an impact on their bottom line and that’s why we have the damage control PR leak. 

I ended my sub the Monday after episode 3. I have no words left to express just how much I hated that episode.

[galaxygirl76]

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

Is the final season feel rushed? Yes. Is the writing flawed? Yes. But you can’t convince me this is about the quality of writing. It’s about fans who aren’t getting the ending they wanted. 

My two favorite book characters are Arya and Tyrion. Both survive, with Tyrion in a position of power. I should be happy with this outcome but I'm extremely dissatisfied with the ending. It's 100% the rushed storytelling for me.

45 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

 And I do hope, if the spoilers come true that people don't harass Isaac or Kit because they are incapable to separate the actor from the performance.

Don't count on that, Jack Gleeson got a lot of shit for playing Joffrey and he's a super nice kid.

[Stallion12]

49 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

A sequel with those that survived? How do you think that’ll fix what already happened? Genuine question. 

Eh. Maaaaaaaayyybe some would go for that. I wouldn’t be a fan of Bran doing anything significant when he couldn’t warg into any one of the three dragons during the Battle of Winterfell. 

I think a sequel could be marketed as the true ending and having it end better written could take some of the sting out.  It won't fix everything of course, but a good spinoff sequel or sequel movie can have people say that's the real ending, even if they have to slight recon things. I can't see HBO letting the franchise fall.

34 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Conleth Hill said he was a little frustrated with the last couple of seasons. That's hardly trashing it and it's certainly not focusing on this season. Actors, like fans, are perfectly within their rights to dislike the material. 

I took it as trashing. But in a very polite professional way.  Gendrys actor was the least suttle.

[Stallion12]

55 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

D&D dont care, they're just rolling around in their piles of money. Instead, people could just boycott their future Star Wars franchise. At least folks could protest smarter that way. This is just dumb. A redo will never happen.

A redo itself won't happen, D@d would have to allow it. Still Disney sees this and it could hurt their future, and HBO doesn't want this reaction to their top show. Doesn't change the anger of fans and the petition is a sign of that anger. 

[BitterApple]

9 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Don't count on that, Jack Gleeson got a lot of shit for playing Joffrey and he's a super nice kid.

Whenever I see an interview with Jack, I think, "How did such a sweet kid play a miserable prick like Joffrey?." 

7 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

I took it as trashing. But in a very polite professional way.  Gendrys actor was the least suttle.

Yeah, I think all the actors have thrown subtle shade. It's like Emilia Clarke's cringe-face and "best season evaaaaaah" during that red carpet interview. 

[Stallion12]

53 minutes ago, chrisvee said:

There is enough criticism of the writing amongst casuals, professionals, and online fans to catapult this to the worst series finale ever. That’s going to hurt D&D and the prequels. 

Since there was so much time and money spent on special effects and cinematography (hey we have a battle that looks like Helm’s Deep on the small screen and we firebomb a while city!) while the writing fell apart, its going to seem like a super cynical ploy to win Emmys and ratings while delivering a subpar product to loyal fans of both the show and the books.

King Bran? Who is the audience for that? Tyrion as hand after all his mistakes that contributed to Dany’s downfall? Sidelined then exiled murderer Jon?  Jaime back with Cersei after discarding Brienne? Crazy Dany?

I guess the Sansa and Arya fan base gets the sweet? The rest of the fan base gets the bitter? 

Yea,  this is beyond just a few fans not wanting an ending, the whole season episode 3 on is getting  blasted. I can't see HBO being happy with this. That's why I can't help but feel a future spinoff will be a sequel or a sequel movie is coming out. Or edits being made to tomorrow's episode to change the ending.

[Soup333]

6 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

Yea,  this is beyond just a few fans not wanting an ending, the whole season episode 3 on is getting  blasted. I can't see HBO being happy with this. That's why I can't help but feel a future spinoff will be a sequel or a sequel movie is coming out. Or edits being made to tomorrow's episode to change the ending.

How many endings did they film? Would it change who ends up on the throne? I’d assume different endings would have to be something major-ish but if it’s the difference between Sansa being in KL or in Winterfell, who’ll care really? 

[Stallion12]

1 hour ago, Soup333 said:

A sequel with those that survived? How do you think that’ll fix what already happened? Genuine question. 

Eh. Maaaaaaaayyybe some would go for that. I wouldn’t be a fan of Bran doing anything significant when he couldn’t warg into any one of the three dragons during the Battle of Winterfell. 

Forgot to say, I think the best way to do Danny vs John is have John ride Ragel against Danny and Drogon,  and not have euron taking a dragon out. John kills Danny in battle, and decides it's not him. Or tgey both die. This still has Danny the Gillian and die, but is more believable then him lying and killing her.

1 minute ago, Soup333 said:

How many endings did they film? Would it change who ends up on the throne? I’d assume different endings would have to be something major-ish but if it’s the difference between Sansa being in KL or in Winterfell, who’ll care really? 

I don't know, I just heard there were at least two, and one is sands getting the throne instead of bran. It's bad either way, but at least sands is more built up.

[nikma]

There will be no sequel, remake or anything like this. The show will be over tomorrow and life will move on. I don't expect that HBO, D&D or GRRM will be ruined after this in any way.

People will be really interested in GRRM's version of the story andif he ever finishes the books it can be Harry Potter level of popularity,  HBO will continue to produce successful TV shows and D&D will have long and successful careers because even if everyone think the last season is the worst thing ever done(and that won't be the case), the fact that they oversaw the biggest TV production in history for such a long time will always remain. Even Stephen King (who loves this season)  had controversial endings of his stories, but he wasn't ruined after that. Life goes on.

https://deadline.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-creators-david-benioff-db-weiss-shop-global-overall-deal-1202615764/

I'm sure that D&D wanted S6 type of reaction to this season. They won't get that, but I still thing experience they had while working on GoT will be positive. Actors, directors, everyone else. They made a lot of money, made a lot of friends and even found lovers. And I also think no matter how stressful this was in the last 12 years they had a lot of fan working on this show.

[PatsyandEddie]

24 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

My two favorite book characters are Arya and Tyrion. Both survive, with Tyrion in a position of power. I should be happy with this outcome but I'm extremely dissatisfied with the ending. It's 100% the rushed storytelling for me.

Don't count on that, Jack Gleeson got a lot of shit for playing Joffrey and he's a super nice kid.

It seems that many members of the younger set have been trashed on line from their looks to their characters’ actions, which leads me to a “WTF seriously people? “ attitude

Jack would apologize to scene partners for his character’s behaviour which was so sweet. Maisie has been called plain , a lesbian, Issac was ugly, while Sophie had trouble with some weight gain.

Some so called fans need to chill out and stop being anonymous pricks.