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Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

Eyes High

By Eyes High
in Game Of Thrones

Meredith Quill
Message added by Meredith Quill

Advisory: This topic is for S8 Spoilers & Spec. If your post predominantly concerns book comparisons or a character's past season actions it will be removed. 

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Meredith Quill
Meredith Quill

Enjoy: I laughed. 🤣

spaceghostess
spaceghostess

^This.^ Thank you.  Months ago I posted that both Dany and Jon were at the top of my death list, but it never occurred to me that (a) she'd die crazy or (b) he'd kill her because she was crazy. Y

dragonsbite
dragonsbite

oh thank god. y'all have stopped arguing about Sansa.

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yowsah1

yowsah1

I was bored today so I made this list that I thought you all might enjoy.  This is based completely on what has been well established on screen so far.  One bit is a mite tongue in cheek... ;)

THINGS THAT GAME OF THRONES WILL EITHER HAVE TO COMPLETELY IGNORE OR PULL SOMETHING UTTERLY ASININE OUT OF THEIR ASS TO MAKE KILLING DANY HAVE A HAPPY ENDING FOR THE SHOW:

1.  Jon Snow is an idiot.
2.  Jon Snow doesn't have a powerbase big enough to weld the Seven Realms together.
3.  Jon Snow is an idiot.
4.  Neither does Sansa Stark, and by the rules carefully laid down by the show, she has no legitimate claim to the throne whatsoever.
5.  Jon Snow is an idiot.
6.  Arya has no legitimate claim to the throne and no powerbase either.
7.  Jon Snow is an idiot.
8.  All of the other possible claimants to the thone have powerbases even weaker than Jon Snow's.
9.  Jon Snow is an idiot.
10.  The Dothraki owe no allegiance to anybody in Westeros except Dany.  They have been clearly established as marauders and pillagers.  If Dany dies, they will be off the chain to maraud and pillage whatever they take a fancy to.
11.  Jon Snow is an idiot.
12.  The Unsullied are by far the greater threat because they have been established  a disciplined fighting force, and they too owe no allegiance to anybody in Westeros except Dany, and they too will be off the chain if she dies.  Oh, and they are led by a guy who hates Westerosis with every fiber of his being for what they did to his beloved and who will probably hate them even more for what they did to his Queen.
13.  Jon Snow is an idiot.
14.  Oh, and Dany also has a BIG FUCKING DRAGON that has been clearly established as being able to wipe out entire fleets and level giant population centers without breaking a sweat.  Said dragon will now be on the loose with no one to keep him in check because the one person who could control him is dead.
15.  Jon Snow is an idiot.
16.  Oh, and by the way, the show clearly established that the country's food stores were destroyed.
17.  Jon Snow is an idiot.
18.  And Winter Is Coming.
19.  Jon Snow is an idiot.

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BitterApple

BitterApple

(edited)
37 minutes ago, onyxrose81 said:

Thank you, next. 

Trash.  It’s all trash.  I’m just looking forward to the draggings.  

I don't know what percentage of the fan base has read the leaks, but if the spoilers hold true the backlash is going to be insane. The shitstorms over Lost and The Last Jedi will pale in comparison.

Edited by BitterApple
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Soup333

Soup333

2 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

I'm never, NEVER going to accept that. Bran is not Bran, he is the 3ER and he doesn't care about any that. He said so. People know that. Why they would chose Bran? And if Bran is king, as in a real king, are they expecting a dinasty? Or when Bran dies they will chose a new one? This is stupid.

Well, they had to subvert expectations and shock the audience. That’s all that matters. 

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rmontro

rmontro

50 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Since when do the Dothraki follow GreyWorm? 

Grey Worm was probably in charge of all of Dany's military.  But once she dies, according to Dothraki tradition, the strongest of them would take leadership.  So it doesn't make sense for them to follow the Unsullied around freeing slave cities, following Dany's last orders.  My guess is they are playing along long enough to hitch a ride home on the boats, and then they'll go off and do what they want.  That's beyond the scope of the story, though.

Seems odd that Jon would join the Night Watch, simply to desert.  Ned Stark, his foster father, beheaded anyone who betrayed their vows.  Unless Jon just never shows up to take the vows again.  For that matter, I'm not sure why Sam isn't being held to his Night Watch vows.  I guess he's being excused because of the needs of the realm.  

I'm glad they don't kill Drogon, at least.  Bran should leave him be.  Dragons on their own are perfectly capable of nesting in some remote land and not bothering anyone.

I'd like to see the last shot be of Bran, behind closed doors, close up on his face as he gives a smirk, suggesting he had manipulated the entire thing.

The last episode sounds like a dreadful bore.

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Raachel2008

Raachel2008

(edited)
16 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Seems odd that Jon would join the Night Watch, simply to desert.  Ned Stark, his foster father, beheaded anyone who betrayed their vows.  Unless Jon just never shows up to take the vows again.  For that matter, I'm not sure why Sam isn't being held to his Night Watch vows.  I guess he's being excused because of the needs of the realm.  

But there is no Night Watch anymore. The Night (the NK) came and they won. The NK is dead. Threre are only two remaining former crows, Sam and Jon. And Jon is noit joining something that doesn't exist. He is being sent to the North by Tyrion so Grey Worm believes he is being punished - GW wouldn't really know that the NW is gone.

I just want the show to be over, to be honest. I made my peace with most of those endings, which are tragic, bitter and a couple of them really bittersweet. Except for Bran as king - I loathe this.

I will forever and ever curse D&D for not wanting to do full seasons, thus butching entire plots and characters, and refusing to let someone else take the helm.

I'm not sure if I will watch the prequel, though. We'll see,

And I really really really wish GRRM would write those fucking books. 

Edited by Raachel2008
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Keely

Keely

There is one interesting point that awful leak brings up, if it's true. Bran being king makes zero sense. However, based on what they've shown us, if it happens, he not only wants to be king, he set everything in motion to be king. 

The math : We have not seen a single reason Jon just had to be told about his true parentage five minutes before the war kicked off. Speculation has been Bran had already seen the future which is why he did or acted in certain ways. 

Otherwise, it solved nothing; did nothing beyond cause strife. In fact, everything that came to pass between them, and her sudden madness, was a direct result of Bran's telling. She then gives them fear. He then gets to be king. Self-fulfilling prophecy at best, topping Cersei level scheming at worst.

On another note, it really bugs that Jon somehow escapes any mention of possible blood related madness while her sanity has been questioned for years. 

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Soup333

Soup333

1 minute ago, Keely said:

There is one interesting point that awful leak brings up, if it's true. Bran being king makes zero sense. However, based on what they've shown us, if it happens, he not only wants to be king, he set everything in motion to be king. 

The math : We have not seen a single reason Jon just had to be told about his true parentage five minutes before the war kicked off. Speculation has been Bran had already seen the future which is why he did or acted in certain ways. 

Otherwise, it solved nothing; did nothing beyond cause strife. In fact, everything that came to pass between them, and her sudden madness, was a direct result of Bran's telling. She then gives them fear. He then gets to be king. Self-fulfilling prophecy at best, topping Cersei level scheming at worst.

On another note, it really bugs that Jon somehow escapes any mention of possible blood related madness while her sanity has been questioned for years. 

Well Jon has the pure and noble Stark blood to dilute the chances of him going mad as apparently ALL Targaryens do. 

If this is what Martin has planned - fucking Bran?! - then Others take him because this ain’t it. 

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Keely

Keely

4 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

Well Jon has the pure and noble Stark blood to dilute the chances of him going mad as apparently ALL Targaryens do. 

If this is what Martin has planned - fucking Bran?! - then Others take him because this ain’t it. 

Right. Stark blood trumps everything. How could I forget?

I agree on the Bran score, but I suspect this is what Martin planned. Reason being, he told them key points of the ending. They then tried to write his overall ending as best they could. The problem is, they made so many tweaks to characters and the story along the way that his ending doesn't remotely work with this show version. Thus, the often nonsensical mess we now have.

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Minneapple

Minneapple

10 minutes ago, Keely said:

I agree on the Bran score, but I suspect this is what Martin planned. Reason being, he told them key points of the ending. They then tried to write his overall ending as best they could. The problem is, they made so many tweaks to characters and the story along the way that his ending doesn't remotely work with this show version. Thus, the often nonsensical mess we now have.

I agree, this is Martin’s ending. D&D just got there a lot faster and clunkier. I can actually buy Bran as king if GRRM ever finishes his books. Here? It makes no sense.

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rmontro

rmontro

26 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

But there is no Night Watch anymore.

Well, we don't know that for sure.  I don't know why it would exist anymore.  There were some spoilers that indicated Jon finds evidence of white walker activity, but I doubt those are accurate.  Anyway, if Tyrion just tells Jon to join the Night Watch to pacify Grey Worm, why shouldn't Jon just nip off to Winterfell, or Orlando for that matter?  Maybe he's had his fill with Winterfell.  So Jon's ending is that he becomes an eskimo?

11 minutes ago, Keely said:

Right. Stark blood trumps everything. How could I forget?

I know the Starks are the heroes of the story obviously, but it kind of annoys me the way they all come up smelling like a rose at the end, when so many others have lost so much.  Nepotism!  And yes, Jon gets a good ending, because he gets to kill the Ultimate Evil (according the story) Daenerys, and be a hero to all.  I'm not convinced he loves her, and even if he did, I doubt that he does by the time he kills her.  Conveniently, his brother gets to slide in there and take the throne.  The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, honestly.  And it's not a bittersweet taste, it's more like gargling with sewer water.

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Raachel2008

Raachel2008

(edited)
22 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Anyway, if Tyrion just tells Jon to join the Night Watch to pacify Grey Worm, why shouldn't Jon just nip off to Winterfell, or Orlando for that matter?  Maybe he's had his fill with Winterfell.  So Jon's ending is that he becomes an eskimo?

Well that is one of the easiest answers in this clutterfuck. Jon was never trully happy at Winterfell, and he really doesn't want to rule. If he stays in Winterfell, either he rules (he is still KITN) or he ends undermining Sansa just by being there. Also, let's be real: he was never as happy as he was during his days with the Free Folk, and I don't even mean that because of Ygritte. He found his tribe there. Simple like that.

And no, Orlando is too fun and warm for Jon.

Edited by Raachel2008
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Soup333

Soup333

6 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Well, we don't know that for sure.  I don't know why it would exist anymore.  There were some spoilers that indicated Jon finds evidence of white walker activity, but I doubt those are accurate.  Anyway, if Tyrion just tells Jon to join the Night Watch to pacify Grey Worm, why shouldn't Jon just nip off to Winterfell, or Orlando for that matter?  Maybe he's had his fill with Winterfell.  So Jon's ending is that he becomes an eskimo?

I know the Starks are the heroes of the story obviously, but it kind of annoys me the way they all come up smelling like a rose at the end, when so many others have lost so much.  Nepotism!  And yes, Jon gets a good ending, because he gets to kill the Ultimate Evil (according the story) Daenerys, and be a hero to all.  I'm not convinced he loves her, and even if he did, I doubt that he does by the time he kills her.  Conveniently, his brother gets to slide in there and take the throne.  The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, honestly.  And it's not a bittersweet taste, it's more like gargling with sewer water.

Don’t forget our darling Mensa member Sansa who gets her wish in the end as well. Power. And as a bonus, her beloved Winterfell was saved by the crazy foreign whore and her savage army. 

During this season Jon’s love for Dany was about as short lived as Jamie’s for Brienne. So I’m guessing his entire purpose in being resurrected was to rid the world of the Mad Queen? Lord of Light got jokes. 

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Raachel2008

Raachel2008

(edited)
2 hours ago, MrsR said:

In the prequel, a special hybrid breed of dogs has been arranged to play the direwolves thus solving these problems. You will get your direwolves.

So, what you are saying is that there is a solution and they chose to no use it for GoT? 

And yes, I want my direwolves. They were always way more cool than the dragons.

Edited by Raachel2008
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rmontro

rmontro

3 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

Don’t forget our darling Mensa member Sansa who gets her wish in the end as well. Power. And as a bonus, her beloved Winterfell was saved by the crazy foreign whore and her savage army. 

Oh yes, Littlefinger II.  I keep seeing the trailer for Dark Phoenix playing on TV, with Sophie Turner.  Every time I see it I say "______ you, Sansa", for the way she acted like such a snippy bitch when Dany was around.  Up until this season, I liked her.

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MrsR

MrsR

22 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

So, what you are saying is that there is a solution and they chose to no use it for GoT? 

No, that's not what I'm saying.
 

They have specifically bred a pack of dogs for the sole purpose of having them play the direwolves in the prequel. Is that clear enough you, my little dove?

COYFD

Oscirus

Oscirus

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I don't know what percentage of the fan base has read the leaks, but if the spoilers hold true the backlash is going to be insane. The shitstorms over Lost and The Last Jedi will pale in comparison.

Bran is heavily favored to take over the iron throne. Either people read the leaks, or they consulted miss cleo from beyond the grave.

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Indi

Indi

6 hours ago, aprilbabe said:

More spoiler from freefolk, from a person who correctly spoiled ep 5. I hate it. And unless there some parts missing it doesn't look seem like an hour worth of an episode. So really Drogon really just flys away with Danys body and that's it. So stupid.

May 16th Updates

Jon, Davos and Tyrion are walking through the aftermath of Kings Landing. Tyrion walks through what's left of the castle and sees Jaime's hand so he starts to uncover the rubble and he confirms both Cersei and Jaime are dead. They find Grey Worm and his men they have Lannister Soldiers trapped and they're about to kill them. Jon trys to tells Grey Worm to stop. Grey Worm tells Jon that its the queens orders. Then they cut to Dany giving a speech pretty much saying how she freed the people from Kings Landing and the new goal is freeing the rest of the world. Dany turns to Tyrion and tells him he committed treason. Tyrion tells her that she killed thousands of innocent people and he takes off the hands pin and throws it. Dany sends him to prison.

Jon goes to see her and she sitting on the Iron throne alone and John tells her that she needs to stop being a crazy bitch and that Grey Worm killed the Lannisters army from the previous scene. Dany tells Jon that she's doing it for the people. Jon pretends to understand and tricks her. When her guard is down he stabs her. Drogon comes and is standing over her body and he burns or melts the Iron throne and carries her away.

Grey Worm has Tyrion and Jon as his prisoners. The *council is (led by Sansa) tells Grey Worm to release Jon back to them but he refuses. That's when Tyrion says that the new King or Queen should decide what happens to Jon. Sam suggest for a democratic vote for the new king. Tyrion calls that idea stupid. The council votes and decide Bran Should be the King. Bran picks Tyrion as his hand.

Tyrion tells Jon that his punishment is going back to the wall and join the Knights Watch. Grey Worm accepts Jons punishment. He doesn't bend the knee leaves with his troops and Dothraki on ships to go free Slave cities. They show Tyrion leading the council. Jon says goodbye to Sansa and Arya. Arya tells them she isn't going back home. She's going to explore whatever is west of Westeros because that's where no one has been.

The final scene is a Closing montage. You see Arya on a ship, Sansa ruling Winterfell and Jon doesnt stay at the wall he reunites with Tormund and Ghost.

*Council Members: Samwell Tarly the Grand Maester, Davos Seaworth Master of ships, Bronn Master of Coin and High Garden, Brienne (not sure) Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Yara Greyjoy Lord of Iron Islands, Robin Arryn Lord of Kingdom of the Mountain and the Vale, Gendry Baratheon Lord of Storm's End, Yohn Royce Lord of Runestone, Hound doesn't get mentioned., Podrick is wheeling around Bran and he protects him.

Ellaria Sand doesn't get mentioned (i asked because she's alive). Sam mentions that they seen Drogon in some location but aren't sure. Bran just says, "ill look for him" They don't have a Master of Laws and Whisperers. Tyrion is looking for the right people to fill those spots. They don't clarify what Bran did when he was in warg during The Long Night. Did i forget to mention the most important detail about this entire episode? our good boy gets a pat from Jon.

I find these 90% awful and I'm sure the remaining 10% will be sloppily written.

The source also says Tyrion still needs to explain to Jon, that Dany is very dangerous and a threat to him and his family. I just... can't, OMG! How has this guy managed to survive till now (magic only explains his resurrection)? It just blows my mind. 

Exiling him to the North Wall is happy ending for such a creature.

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Snowball II

Snowball II

6 hours ago, aprilbabe said:

More spoiler from freefolk, from a person who correctly spoiled ep 5. I hate it. And unless there some parts missing it doesn't look seem like an hour worth of an episode. So really Drogon really just flys away with Danys body and that's it. So stupid.

May 16th Updates

Jon, Davos and Tyrion are walking through the aftermath of Kings Landing. Tyrion walks through what's left of the castle and sees Jaime's hand so he starts to uncover the rubble and he confirms both Cersei and Jaime are dead. They find Grey Worm and his men they have Lannister Soldiers trapped and they're about to kill them. Jon trys to tells Grey Worm to stop. Grey Worm tells Jon that its the queens orders. Then they cut to Dany giving a speech pretty much saying how she freed the people from Kings Landing and the new goal is freeing the rest of the world. Dany turns to Tyrion and tells him he committed treason. Tyrion tells her that she killed thousands of innocent people and he takes off the hands pin and throws it. Dany sends him to prison.

Jon goes to see her and she sitting on the Iron throne alone and John tells her that she needs to stop being a crazy bitch and that Grey Worm killed the Lannisters army from the previous scene. Dany tells Jon that she's doing it for the people. Jon pretends to understand and tricks her. When her guard is down he stabs her. Drogon comes and is standing over her body and he burns or melts the Iron throne and carries her away.

Grey Worm has Tyrion and Jon as his prisoners. The *council is (led by Sansa) tells Grey Worm to release Jon back to them but he refuses. That's when Tyrion says that the new King or Queen should decide what happens to Jon. Sam suggest for a democratic vote for the new king. Tyrion calls that idea stupid. The council votes and decide Bran Should be the King. Bran picks Tyrion as his hand.

Tyrion tells Jon that his punishment is going back to the wall and join the Knights Watch. Grey Worm accepts Jons punishment. He doesn't bend the knee leaves with his troops and Dothraki on ships to go free Slave cities. They show Tyrion leading the council. Jon says goodbye to Sansa and Arya. Arya tells them she isn't going back home. She's going to explore whatever is west of Westeros because that's where no one has been.

The final scene is a Closing montage. You see Arya on a ship, Sansa ruling Winterfell and Jon doesnt stay at the wall he reunites with Tormund and Ghost.

*Council Members: Samwell Tarly the Grand Maester, Davos Seaworth Master of ships, Bronn Master of Coin and High Garden, Brienne (not sure) Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Yara Greyjoy Lord of Iron Islands, Robin Arryn Lord of Kingdom of the Mountain and the Vale, Gendry Baratheon Lord of Storm's End, Yohn Royce Lord of Runestone, Hound doesn't get mentioned., Podrick is wheeling around Bran and he protects him.

Ellaria Sand doesn't get mentioned (i asked because she's alive). Sam mentions that they seen Drogon in some location but aren't sure. Bran just says, "ill look for him" They don't have a Master of Laws and Whisperers. Tyrion is looking for the right people to fill those spots. They don't clarify what Bran did when he was in warg during The Long Night. Did i forget to mention the most important detail about this entire episode? our good boy gets a pat from Jon.

LOL...oh my god, that sounds so bad.  I'm getting so much entertainment from the way this show has crashed and burned.  It's sad, but it's also funny how the showrunners do not give a fuck.  They just slapped an ending together, and told the audience to go fuck themselves.  I love it. 😛

Okay, so, questions/observations/whatever...

1. Is Dany killed in the first ten minutes of the episode?  It sure seems like it.  Jon stabs her right at the start, and the rest of the episode is full of boring, bureaucratic bullshit.  Way to go out with a bang, show.

2. Bran is just as dumb as the other characters, choosing Tyrion as his Hand.  Is there no one else in Westeros who is smart and capable enough for the position? 

3. I'm glad Sansa has a happy ending, and gets to rule as Queen of the North.  Yeah, I said it. 

4. How the HELL is Ellaria still alive?!  That has got to be a mistake.  No way Cersei would not have made sure Ellaria was really most sincerely dead.  Gotta be BS.

5. Is Edmure still alive?  If so, wouldn't he be Lord of Riverrun?  I am so confused, by that.  Funny how Sweet Robin doesn't do anything and isn't affected by all the shit that has happened.  Nope, he's still sitting pretty, in the Vale.  Lucky little asshole.

I know some of you are not interested in watching on Sunday, but I will be there with a tub of popcorn.  If this is true, it has to be seen to be believed.  This ending is even worse than Boardwalk Empire.

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bijoux

bijoux

31 minutes ago, Fiver said:

 😛

4. How the HELL is Ellaria still alive?!  That has got to be a mistake.  No way Cersei would not have made sure Ellaria was really most sincerely dead.  Gotta be BS.

Cersei expressly wanted Ellaria to be kept alive and watch her daughter slowly die and rot. Seems perfectly Cersei to me. 

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haje

haje

(edited)

I hate every single one of these endings for these characters. Maybe except for Sansa. I don't know how anyone thinks this is relatively happy for the Stark's either, they're alive but they're all separated. The show barely gave them any screentime as an actual family altogether after years of separation and then the only significant scene they'll probably get is them saying goodbye to each other again. I'm all for Arya exploring and going on adventures but the fact that she says never coming home? Even though so much of her arc was her going back to her family and going back home? Thanks I hate it. 

I already mentioned how I feel about Bran being put in any sort of leadership position and no thanks. And this is a far better ending than Tyrion deserves imo. I mean I guess I'm glad that the council isn't filled with just dudes but that's all I have. 

I am truly impressed at how this ending is definitely going to piss off fans of well, everyone on the show? Except for Bran fans I guess.

Edited by haje
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BadAssRobinArryn

BadAssRobinArryn

(edited)
1 hour ago, Fiver said:

4. How the HELL is Ellaria still alive?!  That has got to be a mistake.  No way Cersei would not have made sure Ellaria was really most sincerely dead.  Gotta be BS.

5. Is Edmure still alive?  If so, wouldn't he be Lord of Riverrun?  I am so confused, by that.  Funny how Sweet Robin doesn't do anything and isn't affected by all the shit that has happened.  Nope, he's still sitting pretty, in the Vale.  Lucky little asshole. 

I don't think Ellaria is still alive. Leaker said she wasn't mentioned at all. I think the part in the brackets meant that she was alive the last time that we saw her, this is why he asked about her. But there's no mention.

You know, Robin Arryn was actually the only one of the Southern Lords who sort of helped. First he sent his men North to fight the Boyntons and then he didn't order them back. I have no idea why he didn't, but it certainly helped against the NK.

1 minute ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

Lol, this "leak" is exactly what I summarized yesterday based on what we got so far from trusted leakers with some stuff sprinkled here and there to make it sound legit. Anyone could have written it. And I still beleive there are scenes missing. So b/s.

I would agree with this. But according to Freefolk he gave correct details for episode 5. 

Edited by BadAssRobinArryn
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Bianca Castafiore

Bianca Castafiore

(edited)
47 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

I would agree with this. But according to Freefolk he gave correct details for episode 5. 

Still, I don't buy this summary.

I just saw their Q&A. Lots of skimming through the episode. So even if what she/he is saying is true there is info missing.

Edited by Bianca Castafiore
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Bill1978

Bill1978

4 hours ago, Keely said:

I agree on the Bran score, but I suspect this is what Martin planned.

Didn't D&D get the gig to adapt GoT for television as they were the only ones who met GRRM and 'guessed' the person who ended up on the Throne at the end. GRRM ttook this as a sign that they understood the story etc.

Or am I making this up?

Eyes High

Eyes High

  • Author

I don’t see how any of this is that far out of left field.

Jon and Dany being left out of the endgame power structure for whatever reason was speculated for a long time.

The betting odds shifted so heavily towards Bran as the endgame ruler that it must have been based on inside information. We’ve known for at least a year that the odds favoured King Bran.

Tyrion being endgame Hand to whichever ruler has been predicted for a long time.

Sansa running Winterfell makes sense, too, since who else is left at this point?

Arya leaving Westeros at the end has also long been predicted, ever since her “west of Westeros” chat in S6.

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BooBear

BooBear

6 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I don't know what percentage of the fan base has read the leaks, but if the spoilers hold true the backlash is going to be insane. The shitstorms over Lost and The Last Jedi will pale in comparison.

Woof.. I just read the latest spoilers... omg, bad. I am not going to be watching because I cancelled HBO last weekend.  300K have already signed the change.org petition to refilm season 8. People are angry. 

YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

(edited)
9 hours ago, MrsR said:

It's the Prince Who Was Promised scenario, only now Nissa Nissa (Dany) is the darkness

Please no more. There is no PtwP and no Nissa Nissa and Jon stabbing Dany isn't going to change that. 

9 hours ago, GraceK said:

Why would Dothraki care about the NW? Their custom dictates they avenge their Khal. Dany is their Khal. She chose them all as her blood riders. They have to kill Jon to avenge her. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ Whatever. If this is true it’s just more bad writing and lack of continuity . And I am sorry, but Drogon doesn’t give a shit about Jon’s Targaryen genes. He is Danys son completely. There is no way he doesn’t rain hellfire in grief and would straight up eat Jon. More stupid writing. 

And the Dothraki wear bells in their heir as did Dany. Why do you expect that the Dothraki will follow tradition now?

9 hours ago, anamika said:

Like come on. Sansa's plot for three seasons now has been about her wanting to rule the North  instead of Jon and that can only happen if he's gone. Tyrion even tells this to her. She plotted to destroy Jon's life after knowing that Jon loves Dany and that he does not want the Iron Throne. Why in the world would she be sad about Jon going away?

She has no use for her family. And she especially never had any use for Jon. Was it in the first episode that Jon told Dany that Sansa never liked him much? 

I'm sure that's not what Ned meant when he said "the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." The Starks are all lone wolves. There is no pack. 

8 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

7. No one bothers to stop and think how offensive it is that Raegar annulled his marriage to his wife and delegitimized his children in favor of Lyanna.  I'm sure the Dornish would have a lot to say about that!

This is one of my pet peeves (and also not directed at you personally). Because Rhaegar annulled his marriage, automatically his children would have become bastards because Henry VIII. I so profoundly disagree with that. And once a marriage has been consummated, it cannot be annulled. Shockingly, D&D took a shortcut and played fast and loose with this like they did everything else.

I'm even more disappointed by the way they handled Jon's parentage than I am at everything else. 

D&D crapped over everything. 

This is the story as told by a drunken uncle at a Christmas party. It's starts off fine, then the more he drinks the less coherent it is and you exchange looks with your family because not a whole lot makes sense.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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Pestilentia

Pestilentia

On 5/9/2019 at 7:11 AM, nikma said:

If this is true, Jon’s identity doesn’t matter even one tiny bit. He’s the true heir to the throne and it doesn’t even factor into the plot. Not one single thing about his story line this season would be changed by him just being the beloved King in the North who the people preferred instead. So glad fans spent 20 years waiting and the show devoted multiple episodes for the reveal of this utterly meaningless secret! 

The big reveal of Jon's parentage was the hingepin upon which the entire show revolved. If they casually toss that aside as a "Never mind" it renders the entire series moot. What was the point?

Quote

Personally, I don't know that I approve of it much now. Breeding a new species for purposes of entertainment seems to be straddling ethical lines at the very least.

There have been wolf/dog hybrids available as animal actors for decades. That they chose not to utilize them is a mystery, but I can assure you that no "new species" is being created here. Sounds to me more as if they have contracted with a specific breeder and trainer to provide wolf dog hybrids who have been acclimated and trained to specific 'in world' requirements and standards.   Something the current showrunners had plenty of time to do themselves had they cared enough to bother.

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stagmania

stagmania

7 hours ago, Keely said:

On another note, it really bugs that Jon somehow escapes any mention of possible blood related madness while her sanity has been questioned for years. 

It’s almost like there’s some kind of bias at play here!

4 hours ago, Fiver said:

1. Is Dany killed in the first ten minutes of the episode?  It sure seems like it.  Jon stabs her right at the start, and the rest of the episode is full of boring, bureaucratic bullshit.  Way to go out with a bang, show.

The idea that Jon is going to “trick” Dany into thinking he’s on her side offends me for a couple reasons: 1) Jon is a horrible liar and way too simple to pull that off; 2) Dany is not stupid and would have to be blinded by emotion to let him get close after she’s already decided he’s a traitor, so this means they’re essentially going to reduce her to desperation for his love again and have it be her ultimate downfall.

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nodorothyparker

nodorothyparker

That leak, if true, doesn't even rise to the level of bad fan fiction you read at 3 a.m. because you can't sleep.  (Yes, it's a thing.)  That's more like here are the characters we never got around to killing for one reason or another and we'll just start randomly plugging them into holes regardless of their stories up to this point or their individual life circumstances.

What a spectacular flameout.

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Advance35

Advance35

Meh. I'll take it.  I needed to know how ASOIAF ends.  I would have definitely preferred if GRRM had written it but he would prefer to write outlier novels and companion captions for ASOIAF Art Books.

As a book reader, I always thought Rickon would end up as the heir to Winterfell.  Now I know he won't.  I always thought Dany would end up on the Iron Throne and have a miracle baby with Jon Snow. Now I know she won't (LOL).  I thought Sansa would wind up married (to Harry the Heir) and Lady of the Vale. Now I know she won't.

I wish GRRM had given us the answers but he didn't and I doubt he ever will provide us with his version.  I don't think he's tired of ASOIAF since he loves to go to conventions and he's done short story after short story.   The man just can't figure out how to get his characters to where he wants them.   Though he is committed to where each one ends up.   The downside of his "gardening" approach to storytelling I suppose.

Though for all our bashing of them, it's funny that the cast seems so loyal.  E. Clarke said she would never do a spin-off or play the Daenaerys character again, unless D & D were involved.  Maybe the cast is just glad to be able to move on.

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Bali

Bali

12 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Not only that, but it seems like the Tyrion/Sansa long look and hand kiss moment was the entire point of that whole sequence in the crypts. Everything else (Varys, Missandei, Gilly, mass chaos, etc.) was just window dressing. Tyrion didn't even need to be down there in the first place! Even the actual wight fighting Tyrion and Sansa did wound up on the cutting room floor, as you said. That long look and hand kiss were the point. The writers locked Sansa and Tyrion up in an enclosed space together, got Tyrion really drunk, and threw wights at them for long enough so that they could get past their bullshit and baggage for five fucking seconds and have a genuine moment of connection.

Of course, in 8x04, Sansa was back to being curt and dismissive, and it was as if the whole hand kiss never happened (although Tyrion catching Sansa looking at him after Dany confirmed that legitimizing Gendry was a power move was very interesting). Still, the relationship feels unresolved, and we never got to see a proper goodbye between the characters even though Tyrion was heading south indefinitely (unlike with Jon/Sam). Tyrion and Sansa have had multiple scenes together in Season 8 (or scenes concerning each other like Sansa defending Tyrion to Dany in 8x02 and Tyrion defending Sansa to Dany in 8x05). The other (not necessarily romantic) relationships that got similar attention in S8 were definitively "resolved," if not always in warm and fuzzy fashion (Jaime dumping Brienne, Tyrion telling Jaime that he was the only one he had as a child, Arya turning down Gendry, Sam telling Jon that he was the best friend he ever had, Beric sacrificing himself for Arya, Sandor sweetly warning Arya off a life of revenge, etc.). So one way or another, Sansa and Tyrion's relationship will be resolved, whether Tyrion grants her an annulment or they get back together or Sansa tells him to fuck off once and for all or what have you. Hopefully it will fall towards the warm and fuzzy end of the spectrum as opposed to the brutal and heartbreaking end, but we'll have to see.

I think that hand kiss is all we're going to get. The writers feel some sort of need to blast everything that could be good about this show. I think that no one in Westeros will ever marry again. There will be no babies. The pod-person Bran will rule by staring at nothing with his eyes all white. And by the end, I'll need the remote FAR away from me so that I'm not tempted to grab it and throw it through my tv.

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Bali

Bali

(edited)
12 hours ago, aprilbabe said:

Jon goes to see her and she sitting on the Iron throne alone and John tells her that she needs to stop being a crazy bitch and that Grey Worm killed the Lannisters army from the previous scene. Dany tells Jon that she's doing it for the people. Jon pretends to understand and tricks her. When her guard is down he stabs her. Drogon comes and is standing over her body and he burns or melts the Iron throne and carries her away.

I probably need more sleep because I read that as "she shitting on the throne" and I thought, "well that's about the sum of it."

Well, I do remember reading that Rose Leslie hit Kit after he told her how it ended. Now I FULLY understand.

Edited by Bali
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Stallion12

Stallion12

5 hours ago, Fiver said:

LOL...oh my god, that sounds so bad.  I'm getting so much entertainment from the way this show has crashed and burned.  It's sad, but it's also funny how the showrunners do not give a fuck.  They just slapped an ending together, and told the audience to go fuck themselves.  I love it. 😛

Okay, so, questions/observations/whatever...

1. Is Dany killed in the first ten minutes of the episode?  It sure seems like it.  Jon stabs her right at the start, and the rest of the episode is full of boring, bureaucratic bullshit.  Way to go out with a bang, show.

2. Bran is just as dumb as the other characters, choosing Tyrion as his Hand.  Is there no one else in Westeros who is smart and capable enough for the position? 

3. I'm glad Sansa has a happy ending, and gets to rule as Queen of the North.  Yeah, I said it. 

4. How the HELL is Ellaria still alive?!  That has got to be a mistake.  No way Cersei would not have made sure Ellaria was really most sincerely dead.  Gotta be BS.

5. Is Edmure still alive?  If so, wouldn't he be Lord of Riverrun?  I am so confused, by that.  Funny how Sweet Robin doesn't do anything and isn't affected by all the shit that has happened.  Nope, he's still sitting pretty, in the Vale.  Lucky little asshole.

I know some of you are not interested in watching on Sunday, but I will be there with a tub of popcorn.  If this is true, it has to be seen to be believed.  This ending is even worse than Boardwalk Empire.

At least boardwalk Empire while bad made sense. I remember being disappointed but not wondering why I started the shiw.

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Callista

Callista

(edited)
10 minutes ago, Bali said:

I think that hand kiss is all we're going to get. The writers feel some sort of need to blast everything that could be good about this show. I think that no one in Westeros will ever marry again. There will be no babies. The pod-person Bran will rule by staring at nothing with his eyes all white. And by the end, I'll need the remote FAR away from me so that I'm not tempted to grab it and throw it through my tv.

Jaime & Brienne actually went as far as sleeping together, and so did Arya & Gendry, but their relationships fizzled out afterwards. So I wouldn't put much faith in a simple hand kiss between Tyrion & Sansa leading to anything important or lasting either.

Edited by Callista
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screamin

screamin

(edited)
10 hours ago, stagmania said:

If Sansa really cared about what happens to Jon, I don’t think she would have betrayed his trust immediately and sent him South with no warning that she’d essentially put a coup in motion. She could have gotten him killed (would have if Dany reacted logically and eliminated Jon and Tyrion after burning the city).

I’m by no means a Sansa hater, but I don’t see how you can look at her actions this season and think a primary concern for her was her family. She was looking out for her own security and her desire to rule in the north above all else. Perfectly fine and understandable motives in the context of this universe, but let’s not pretend she wasn’t willing to let Jon be collateral damage in her machinations.  

I think things might've been a little different if we'd actually SEEN Jon give Arya and Sansa the news about his birth, and the conversation after they've absorbed the information.

After the first stunned reactions are over, Sansa asks: "And you say Dany knows about this."

Jon: "Yes, of course, I told her straight off."

Sansa: "And...she's okay with you being the true heir of the Iron Throne, that she's conquered cities and crossed continents to get for herself?"

Jon squirms uneasily. "Absolutely. I told her I didn't want the crown and she's absolutely fine with the whole thing. Fine."

Arya: "Wait...weren't you two in love? That means - she's your aunt, right?"

Jon looks disconsolate. "Yeah, that, well. I guess I can't...be with her...like that anymore."

Sansa: "And she's fine with that, too?"

Jon squirms again. "Well, I haven't actually told her yet. I don't think she sees it quite the same way, being Targaryen and all...but we'll work it out eventually. It'll ALL be fine. Really."

I think that Sansa might easily infer from the above that Jon is ALREADY in danger despite his protestations. With that, and Jon immediately caving in to Dany's demand to rush off to battle with their men and her own dragon still unrecovered from their wounds, it's reasonable to conclude that Jon is not currently hip to his own best interests.  I think it's also reasonable to think that telling Tyrion, who she trusts and is a longtime friend to Jon as well, that there's an alternative monarch available who might need support if the current queen starts screwing things up to a dangerous extent, would actually increase Jon's safety. That will probably be Sansa's protestation if she and Jon meet again; I fully expect him to reject it and her forever.

Edited by screamin
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Meredith Quill
Message added by Meredith Quill

Advisory: This topic is for S8 Spoilers & Spec. If your post predominantly concerns book comparisons or a character's past season actions it will be removed. 

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