Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[RedheadZombie]

14 hours ago, Umbelina said:

HE is the legitimate heir, not her.  The country knows him, they don't know her. 

If someone was to be "consort" it would be her, not him.

Aside from that, while Dany is fine with incest, Jon is obviously not.

I think there is a difference between "mad meaning insane" and "mad meaning temper."  I honestly hope they do not go the completely insane route with her, even though it certainly runs in her family, and tends to come out later in life. 

Conquering Westeros was never going to be easy, she was always going to have massive losses, so I don't see that as some kind of conspiracy to "make her mad."  It's how she handles it that matters.  She seems resentful and angry that her new "subjects" don't automatically love her, and that rather than hailing the return of dragons and Targs they support those they actually know.

That does not bode well for Dany, she's more concerned about HER rights than anything else, which, to me, makes sense in many ways.  She's finally at the end of her quest, and things are not going well.  It's upsetting.  She thought she'd be greeted with love and flowers, isn't that the tale told by her brother and adopted by her way back in season one?

Cersei is evil.  The show Cersei is less evil, which has always annoyed me, but she's still evil.

Both women would probably have millions of their "subjects" burned to death in order to win that throne. 

I'm hoping for a different kind of Westeros, not just a rewind back to when the Targs were in power.  I want that wheel broken, and that throne destroyed.

I always liked Dany, but I could also clearly see that she has issues.  As I said before, her single minded resolve was impressive, but the other side of that?  Was dangerous and self aggrandizing. 

I'm not big into inherited power or even wealth, so for me, this ending works, and could work well.  Thousands and thousands of pages all to just hit the rewind button and have no progress?

I don't believe GRRM would bother writing such a thing.

But what makes Jon the absolute heir?  The mad king passed over Rhaegar’s other children and made Viserys his heir. Wouldn’t Dany then be her brother’s heir?

[sunflower]

Quote

Don't want to believe the Bran as King spoiler but between Tyrions conversations with Bran and those looks they've been sharing, I'm starting to get scared.

I think Bran gets short shrift in the show. He's, to me, one of the most tragic characters in the story. I love Jaime, but he pushed this sweet kid, who wanted to be a knight, out a window and crippled him. Then this whole 3-eyed raven thing to what? lose his humanity? I find his story depressing. He was a kid who wanted more and then gets this download of info that makes him lose Bran. So, if he ends ups being the King, that's something. I don't know, I just think of the end of book 2 Clash of Kings, and it makes me want to cry. Bran is leaving his destroyed home of Wintefell, and he thinks he's broken, but not dead. 

[Lillith]

2 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Don't want to believe the Bran as King spoiler but between Tyrions conversations with Bran and those looks they've been sharing, I'm starting to get scared.

Some things are off. Or at least appear to be. Brienne  would have to break her vows to Sansa which would be way out of character. Jaime didn't leave until he heard that  Cersei was winning which seems to indicate he's not betraying the north. But yea too much of that is right for me to chalk it up to fan fiction. Perhaps some fake scenes are mixed in with the real. But it's not looking that way.

Yes the Jaime betrayal stuck in my craw too, not only because I like the character but because it made zero sense. Him returning to Cersei to kill her/die with her is less surprising. But we've seen no sign of betrayal on his part I think that was a leap in logic unless something is revealed next episode. Though I can see Dany taking him prisoner if he's trying to return to KL. Maybe Sansa gives Brienne leave to go follow Jaime? She's very fond of her so maybe that's it. Some of the other leaks make sense but not loving the final arc of the show if these appear to be true. And most of them do at this point. 

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

But what makes Jon the absolute heir?  The mad king passed over Rhaegar’s other children and made Viserys his heir. Wouldn’t Dany then be her brother’s heir?

When did the Mad King make Vyseris his heir? As I remember it Vyseris got that claim only after Aerys, Rhaegar and Rheagar’s son with Elia were killed.

2 hours ago, sunflower said:

I think Bran gets short shrift in the show. He's, to me, one of the most tragic characters in the story. I love Jaime, but he pushed this sweet kid, who wanted to be a knight, out a window and crippled him. Then this whole 3-eyed raven thing to what? lose his humanity? I find his story depressing. He was a kid who wanted more and then gets this download of info that makes him lose Bran. So, if he ends ups being the King, that's something. I don't know, I just think of the end of book 2 Clash of Kings, and it makes me want to cry. Bran is leaving his destroyed home of Wintefell, and he thinks he's broken, but not dead. 

True, although I still weep most for Rickon who felt abandoned at a very young age even before he actually lost his mom and went half wild over it, only to get unceremoniously shot up after going through years of various shit as he finally saw his brother. That one hit me hard because I was harboring the hope that he’d end up among the wildlings. I think he’d have fit in there.

[MarySNJ]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

But what makes Jon the absolute heir?  The mad king passed over Rhaegar’s other children and made Viserys his heir. Wouldn’t Dany then be her brother’s heir?

Not necessary. IIRC, the laws for succession devised after the Dance of Dragons pass over any female as ruler. So, by Targaryen law and custom, Viserys would have been followed by his son if he had one or another, more distant male Targaryen descendant, probably one of the remaining Baratheon men. 

I think Robert’s claim to the throne by conquest was bolstered by his Targaryen lineage through his Grandmother. That’s why he wanted to hunt down and kill Viserys as a potential threat to his rule. And with Daenerys, it was after she became pregnant that Robert started hunting her down in earnest because her son would have been a threat to his rule. But I digress.

Bottom line: Even if Aerys had legally disowned Rhaegar and his known son, Aerys is dead and Jon is still a male Targaryen of the same lineage as Daenerys on his father’s side. Plus,  it’s a patriarchal society and he’s the son of the last dragon who was generally loved and respected by the Lords and small folk of Westeros. And he’s also the son of another great house on his mother’s side. That might make him look like a better option to some who might be willing to support his claim over Cersei or Daenerys. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by MarySNJ

[SeanC]

If the god-King Bran ending is true, I think that’s going to damage the show’s reputation in a few different ways.  Firstly, from a fan perspective, TV Bran is nobody’s favourite character — at this point he’s arguably a non-character.  Secondly, from a critical perspective, it only calls attention to how little time the series spent on the character through the years.

God-King Bran was actually where I thought the books were headed for a while, but came to doubt it precisely because of how insignificant the show had made him.

Edited May 7, 2019 by SeanC

[ElizaD]

If King Bran happens, I'll be even more convinced that we're getting GRRM's ending: nothing but a sense of obligation to the books could explain something that's so very anti-fanservice. People who like GOT for the shocks might enjoy Jon killing Dany, but an ending that begins as democracy outta nowhere before being watered down by the establishment of a god-king who skipped a full season because he didn't have any story? Before this, hold the door was the biggest Bran moment and that focused on the supporting character. I feel that he's been more popular this season because of his meme potential, but while they've started selling why Tyrion would propose him as king due to his lack of human wants, no one unspoiled has yet caught on to that logic and started arguing that Bran would be good for the realm.

[Eyes High]

3 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Don't want to believe the Bran as King spoiler but between Tyrions conversations with Bran and those looks they've been sharing, I'm starting to get scared.

I guess on the one hand you could say that in 8x04 Bran said that he doesn't want anything and Varys pointed out that the best ruler would be one who didn't want to rule, but on the other, Bran also said in 8x04 "Mostly I live in the past," which doesn't sound like a great character trait for a ruler. Also, Bran seems content to let horrible things happen because he believes they have to happen, which is also not a great character trait for a ruler. With that said, I do think these Bran/Tyrion looks and conversations are heading somewhere, and that place doesn't appear to be "Tyrion betrays everyone." It seems likely that their relationship is important for 8x06.

It also seemed like Varys and Tyrion's conversation was calculated to plant the seed in the audience's mind that the best ruler would be a man (ugh) who could keep the North in the Seven Kingdoms by virtue of a blood tie. Bran would qualify on both counts. And when you throw in his lack of human wants, maybe that's indeed where things are going. I see no way that it's going to play out as anything but a huge WTF moment for the casual viewers, though.

Everyone talking about how amazing a king Jon would be in 8x04 is a lot more palatable knowing that he doesn't end up king after all. The people of Westeros are going to get their supposedly perfect monarch--handsome, charismatic, popular, humble, kind, strong, dutiful, with no interest in ruling and exactly the right heritage to restore the Targ dynasty and keep the North in the Seven Kingdoms--and he's going to tell them all to go fuck themselves.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Eyes High

[stagmania]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

So if these spoilers are right

then Jon's character is simply the worst. They would have destroyed him.

At this point I’m assuming they’re right, with maybe a few details off. This post got everything for episode 4 correct, with the exception of Jaime betraying the north. And it’s totally possible that happened and won’t be revealed until episode 5 (I.e. we find out he sent a scroll to warn Cersei to flee and that’s why Dany got ambushed).

And I agree, this ending would be dreadful. I sincerely hope at least a few things here are misinterpretations, or there’s key episode 6 info missing that would change it. That other leaker who works on the show is still claiming no major ep 6 info is out, so this person could get ep 5 right but miss the mark on the finale.

ETA: @ElizaD I completely agree. Bran is much more important (and better written) in the books, so it’s plausible to me that GRRM would end the story with him. But it just underscores what a poor adaptation this is that D&D didn’t bother to get Bran or any of the magical elements right when it was so consequential.

Edited May 7, 2019 by stagmania

[SeanC]

6 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

If King Bran happens, I'll be even more convinced that we're getting GRRM's ending: nothing but a sense of obligation to the books could explain something that's so very anti-fanservice. People who like GOT for the shocks might enjoy Jon killing Dany, but an ending that begins as democracy outta nowhere before being watered down by the establishment of a god-king who skipped a full season because he didn't have any story? Before this, hold the door was the biggest Bran moment and that focused on the supporting character. I feel that he's been more popular this season because of his meme potential, but while they've started selling why Tyrion would propose him as king due to his lack of human wants, no one unspoiled has yet caught on to that logic and started arguing that Bran would be good for the realm.

Jon killing Dany, if it happens, is also definitely GRRM, not D&D, though I’m sure we’ll see arguments to the contrary.  D&D have extremely conventional Hollywood storytelling instincts, as you can see from the general direction of the show since they ran out of source material — that’s not an ending they would ever have come up with by themselves.

Edited May 7, 2019 by SeanC

[John Potts]

I don't believe the "Jon quits for the quiet life" ending. I don't have a problem with him not ending on the throne, but he's Stark enough to believe he should always do his duty. The only way he might give it up is after a time jump and he now has a clear heir (a son of him & Danny?). Otherwise, he's condemning the 7Ks to more chaos as the various Houses war to establish themselves as the new King (or Queen).

12 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Maybe the only thing that will remain in the next to last shot is a hand-carved stag. 

That toy will be held by one of George R. R. Martin's grandchildren as he is telling them the story of his ancestor in Game of Thrones. 

11 hours ago, MrsR said:

Or a snowglobe.

And everyone will puzzle over his last words, "Snowball" (though I guess that depends whether that was intended as a Citizen Kane or a St Elsewhere reference)!

[ElizaD]

4 minutes ago, stagmania said:

ETA: @ElizaD I completely agree. Bran is much more important (and better written) in the books, so it’s plausible to me that GRRM would end the story with him. But it just underscores what a poor adaptation this is that D&D didn’t bother to get Bran or any of the magical elements right when it was so consequential.

I think he was a sweet little lord in ACOK and having both the first and the last chapter is a long-predicted symmetry, but this ending will absolutely mean scrutiny of the way Bran (before and after robo-Bran) was handled in past seasons. They've known the ending for years yet the first buildup came with Tyrion/Varys in 8x04. This could be Dexter/Lost level infamy, for a much bigger show.

3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Jon killing Dany, if it happens, is also definitely GRRM, not D&D

It has to be the third holy shit moment, and it blows Hodor and Shireen out of the water.

If Jon's ending has him return to the wildlings, I imagine viewers would find it much more acceptable if it involved some CGI money spent on proper petting of good boy Ghost. It would even make sense as him embracing the wildest North, and now I'm going to be disappointed when it doesn't happen.

[chrisvee]

It’s hard for me to imagine Bran as King after last ep when he didn’t want Winterfell.

But of course it’s getting hard to imagine any satisfying ending given how little time is left. Jon as the rightful yet reluctant King who will grant some degree of independence to the individual kingdoms seems like what they are setting up narratively but no spoilers support it. 

This last season is way too rushed as many have commented.

Edited May 7, 2019 by chrisvee

[TwistedandBored]

How I am feeling after reading these spoilers

 

[nikma]

If they wrote a good speech for Tyrion Bran as "king" could work. I thought Bronn as high lord made no sense but speech he gave last episode convinced me. So who knows.

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

When did the Mad King make Vyseris his heir? As I remember it Vyseris got that claim only after Aerys, Rhaegar and Rheagar’s son with Elia were killed.

It's from The World of Ice and Fire. It says that after Rhaegar died on the Trident, Aerys named Viserys his heir, thereby passing over Rhaegar's son by Elia. 

When news came of Rhaegar's death, Aerys became convinced that Lewyn Martell betrayed him on the Trident. That's part of the reason he wouldn't let Elia and her children leave for Dragonstone with Rhaella and Viserys. 

[Wendy]

On 5/4/2019 at 3:09 PM, Edith said:

I remembered an old theory I read in reddit asofiaf about Bran’s visions in season 6. Back then I dismissed it, not because they sound impossible but because the user was a shipper, and I tend to stay away from shippers discussions..

This is absolutely fascinating. I always thought that A song of Ice and Fire meant two people: Jon/ Ice & Daenerys/Fire but then Jon is half Targeryan so it kind of doesn't fit. 

Then I thought that it could mean a child from Jon & Daenerys, again the same problem occurs. 

Now that I read this theory I just can unsee it. All the signs are pointing to it. The Ice threat were the WW and the NK that were just defeated. The Fire part is probably Daenerys but also Cersei as both queens are playing with the lives of the people of the RK with Fire (dragon or wildfire) ergo both need to be defeated. 

Fascinating theory indeed. Thanks for posting it here 🙂 

[Raachel2008]

8 hours ago, rmontro said:

So if Dany had never met Jon Snow, if she hadn't agreed to go with him and fight for the living, she would have been able to begin her campaign into Westeros with the full strength of her armies, her advisers still firmly on her side, and all three dragons.  It irritates me to no end that she sacrificed everything she had, only to get this crap ending which destroys her character, and destroys her personally, completely.

If Dany had never met Jon Snow, then the NK would be at King's Landing doors. 

The argument that Arya would kill the NK doesn't work for me, because as much as people says Dany and Jon did nothing in the Battle of Winterfell, they/the dragons 'killed' thousands and thousands and thousands of ww/wights who never entered Winterfell. Without them/the dragons Winterfell and everybody there would have fallen way before the KN set foot in the Redwood.

[Eyes High]

If the Throwaway spoilers posted upthread are correct, then it sounds like Sansa ends up at Winterfell alone to rule the North while Jon, Arya and Bran all end up elsewhere (Jon in the "real North," Arya leaving Westeros, and Bran in the south). That would be truly bittersweet: the pack survives, but they all split up at the end.

I admit that despite my speculations about Sansa/Tyrion, if Tyrion ends up on Bran's ruling council (presumably in the southern regions) and Sansa rules in the North (presumably by herself), it sure doesn't sound like they end up together. With that said, it doesn't seem as if they've yet received the closure that Brienne/Jaime, Gendry/Arya, Theon/Sansa and SanSan got, and they didn't have a goodbye scene as Jon/Tormund and Jon/Sam/Gilly did.

If 8x03 was intended to be the closure and D&D closing the door on the ship, you'd think Sansa would have spelled out all the political reasons they wouldn't work and not just limited it to Tyrion's loyalty to Dany (which looks like it won't be a problem after 8x04), or that D&D would have explained this in the Inside the Episode segment. I also don't know why Tyrion's long period of celibacy has been brought up twice this season unless it has some relevance to the character's endgame. Oh, well. I never would have predicted the route Season 8 has taken, so I'm ready to be proven wrong once again.

If Sansa's last scene is of her alone at Winterfell, that explains why Sophie could display a storyboard of that scene on her wall and not worry about anyone noticing. 

I'm curious to see if Sansa has any storyline left (assuming I'm wrong about Sansa/Tyrion and that's not going anywhere), or if she'll just show up at what I assume is the great council in the Dragonpit. Will 8x05 feature any Winterfell scenes, or will it be wall to wall KL? Her main storyline in S8 was her involvement in Dany's storyline, and that seems pretty much over with Dany's downfall. So I don't know what else is left for her at this point.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Eyes High

[MarySNJ]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Jon killing Dany, if it happens, is also definitely GRRM, not D&D, though I’m sure we’ll see arguments to the contrary.  D&D have extremely conventional Hollywood storytelling instincts, as you can see from the general direction of the show since they ran out of source material — that’s not an ending they would ever have come up with by themselves.

I believe that it’s GRRM’s ending but the problem I have is that they have not written TV Jon as the sort of man who would murder someone he loved. He couldn’t even kill Ygritte, one of the enemy of the Night’s Watch, and who was onboard with killing innocent small folk on their raiding south of the Wall. 

If it goes as described in the new leaks, I think that’s D&D’s mess and they’ve written themselves into this predicament where they have to completely assassinate Jon’s character out of the blue.

Also, while Dany has a temper and had executed some people under questionable circumstances, in my opinion it doesn’t compare to the atrocities committed by the Lannisters. And after everything she’s sacrificed and lost, to make her the mad queen that has to be put down like a rabid dog seems really forced to me. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by MarySNJ

[merrick715]

18 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Will 8x05 feature any Winterfell scenes, or will it be wall to wall KL? Her main storyline in S8 was her involvement in Dany's storyline, and that seems pretty much over with Dany's downfall. So I don't know what else is left for her at this point.

I think I remember reading a spoiler where Sansa is meeting a representative of The Iron Bank next episode.

Edited May 7, 2019 by merrick715

[Raachel2008]

6 hours ago, anamika said:

Probably Kit Harington did end up reading the scripts and was so pissed that he did not bother to email the Ds and then just lied when meeting them about how he wanted it to be a surprise.

Sorry but I don't get your point here. If he had e-mailed them they would have changed their minds? He didn't want the end to be a surprise? Or?

[YaddaYadda]

40 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

If Dany had never met Jon Snow, then the NK would be at King's Landing doors. 

The argument that Arya would kill the NK doesn't work for me, because as much as people says Dany and Jon did nothing in the Battle of Winterfell, they/the dragons 'killed' thousands and thousands and thousands of ww/wights who never entered Winterfell. Without them/the dragons Winterfell and everybody there would have fallen way before the KN set foot in the Redwood.

And we would all be better for it if the NK had wiped out 75% of the main characters. I have a list.

With regard to this GRRM's ending. Sure, if he said that Dany is killed by Jon, that's well and fine, but context is everything. I doubt the books end with a war for the throne in any case or that Cersei lives as long as Carol has. 

[Jextella]

Crazy theory among all the spoilers, but I wonder if Jamie kills Cersei.  He will never love another like he did Cersei, but he also knows there is no hope for her/them and that she will continue with her own brand of madness unless stopped.

I read another theory elsewhere that was interesting.  Arya kills Cersei but then fights with Cersei's face so that Dany can reveal her true colors enough to where Jon won't want her to take the throne and he fights to stop her.

[cambridgeguy]

2 hours ago, John Potts said:

I don't believe the "Jon quits for the quiet life" ending. I don't have a problem with him not ending on the throne, but he's Stark enough to believe he should always do his duty. The only way he might give it up is after a time jump and he now has a clear heir (a son of him & Danny?). Otherwise, he's condemning the 7Ks to more chaos as the various Houses war to establish themselves as the new King (or Queen).

Would he?  None of the current kingdoms have the strength to subjugate the rest so maybe everyone will decide that the idea of one family to rule them all should die with House Targaryen rather than trying to fill the chair.

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

If Dany had never met Jon Snow, then the NK would be at King's Landing doors.

Would he?  We never knew what his plan was to get past the Wall without being gifted the opportunity to snag a dragon.

55 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

I believe that it’s GRRM’s ending but the problem I have is that they have not written TV Jon as the sort of man who would murder someone he loved. He couldn’t even kill Ygritte, one of the enemy of the Night’s Watch, and who was onboard with killing innocent small folk on their raiding south of the Wall. 

Killing Ygritte wouldn't have (at least hypothetically) saved thousands of lives.  They're setting Jon up to be in the same position as Jaime was with Aerys. 

[SeanC]

57 minutes ago, merrick715 said:

I think I remember reading a spoiler where Sansa is meeting a representative of The Iron Bank next episode.

Which isn’t likely true.  If they were going to bring the Iron Bank back into the story they’d use Mark Gatiss’ character, but we know he’s not in this season.

[Chiny11]

1 hour ago, MarySNJ said:

I believe that it’s GRRM’s ending but the problem I have is that they have not written TV Jon as the sort of man who would murder someone he loved. He couldn’t even kill Ygritte, one of the enemy of the Night’s Watch, and who was onboard with killing innocent small folk on their raiding south of the Wall. 

If it goes as described in the new leaks, I think that’s D&D’s mess and they’ve written themselves into this predicament where they have to completely assassinate Jon’s character out of the blue.

Also, while Dany has a temper and had executed some people under questionable circumstances, in my opinion it doesn’t compare to the atrocities committed by the Lannisters. And after everything she’s sacrificed and lost, to make her the mad queen that has to be put down like a rabid dog seems really forced to me. 

Good points.  Question....has Jon ever told Dany he loved her on screen? 

[Raachel2008]

15 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

And we would all be better for it if the NK had wiped out 75% of the main characters. I have a list.

I'm not disagreeing with you here. I'm just pointing that had Dany not have gone North, the NK and his army would be at King's Landing and right in front of Dany's arm. The NK threat was real. The resolution was too fast and not really well done, but the NK threat was real.

[stagmania]

6 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

Good points.  Question....has Jon ever told Dany he loved her on screen? 

Nope. She has said it a couple times but he hasn't reciprocated. He'll probably say it as he stabs her in the heart.

[MissLucas]

12 hours ago, Clawdette said:

But if Dany threatened one of his sibling/cousins, that would be a whole new ballgame. It would have to be a real threat, not a vague one. Something along the lines of, “When I finish with Kings Landing I’m headed north to wipe that red-haired sister of yours off the face of the earth. 

I think the threat should be more immediate so that Jon's action veers more into manslaughter than murder territory. It makes an awful lot of sense - but if it's Sansa we're talking about (and she would be a much more likely candidate than Arya or Bran) the internet meltdown would be terrifying to behold.

[lucindabelle]

Wow glad about these leaks that drogon will die. Because now I know not to watch.

im officially done with the snow. Will read recaps. I’m pissed off. Killing one dragon per episode, seriously?

its not even sad it’s sadistic. I really adored first three episodes.

life is tough enough without watching characters I love killed off, turned into idiots, given “madness” arcs. I’ll be reading a book. 

[RedheadZombie]

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

If the god-King Bran ending is true, I think that’s going to damage the show’s reputation in a few different ways.  Firstly, from a fan perspective, TV Bran is nobody’s favourite character — at this point he’s arguably a non-character.  Secondly, from a critical perspective, it only calls attention to how little time the series spent on the character through the years.

God-King Bran was actually where I thought the books were headed for a while, but came to doubt it precisely because of how insignificant the show had made him.

One reason I think this may happen is because the actor stated that Bran is more human this season.  Having not seen that yet, it may be coming.

[blixie]

So if these spoilers are right and they really feel 95% accurate based on what already happened in 4, like the story betrays all the main characters, and gives the rest a WHATEVER resolution, and of course fucking Cersei gets some tragic romantic ass ending with Jamie? OTOH Davos, Arya, and Gendry all alive which is all I cared about.

[Dame sans merci]

1 minute ago, blixie said:

So if these spoilers are right and they really feel 95% accurate based on what already happened in 4, like the story betrays all the main characters, and gives the rest a WHATEVER resolution, and of course fucking Cersei gets some tragic romantic ass ending with Jamie? OTOH Davos, Arya, and Gendry all alive which is all I cared about.

The thing that gives me pause is that, in a previous interview, I seem to recall Nikolaj Coster Waldau using the 'Cersei and Jaime die together' scenario as an example of theorising that was WRONG.

[QuinnM]

5 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

One reason I think this may happen is because the actor stated that Bran is more human this season.  Having not seen that yet, it may be coming.

He did tell Theon thank you.  He sent Meera off with a blank stare.  That's a start.

[Minneapple]

13 hours ago, Clawdette said:

Ever since we got the “Jon kills Dany” leak, I’ve been trying to imagine under what circumstances he would do this. I’m not convinced that burning down Kings Landing would be enough, horrible though it would be. 

But if Dany threatened one of his sibling/cousins, that would be a whole new ballgame. It would have to be a real threat, not a vague one. Something along the lines of, “When I finish with Kings Landing I’m headed north to wipe that red-haired sister of yours off the face of the earth. 

There was a spoiler or a theory somewhere about Arya sneaking into King's Landing and winding up in the group of people that Cersei was using as human shields. Dany is about to dracarys all the people when Jon sees Arya in the group and that's when he kills Dany, to save Arya. I wish I could remember where I read this theory/spoiler.

[RedheadZombie]

9 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

He did tell Theon thank you.  He sent Meera off with a blank stare.  That's a start.

I agree.  But I guess I expected more.  The kid can act and they should let him.

[Couver]

44 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

Wow glad about these leaks that drogon will die. Because now I know not to watch.

im officially done with the snow. Will read recaps. I’m pissed off. Killing one dragon per episode, seriously?

its not even sad it’s sadistic. I really adored first three episodes.

life is tough enough without watching characters I love killed off, turned into idiots, given “madness” arcs. I’ll be reading a book. 

I'm still clinging to this one being fake since it seems to be contradicted by him taking a dead Dany away. We'll see as we get close to 8x5.

I've already stopped watching but I'd like to tune in to see a Drogon happy ending if he lives.

[Callista]

20 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

There was a spoiler or a theory somewhere about Arya sneaking into King's Landing and winding up in the group of people that Cersei was using as human shields. Dany is about to dracarys all the people when Jon sees Arya in the group and that's when he kills Dany, to save Arya. I wish I could remember where I read this theory/spoiler.

I remember reading this spoiler/theory too.

[nikma]

40 minutes ago, Dame sans merci said:

The thing that gives me pause is that, in a previous interview, I seem to recall Nikolaj Coster Waldau using the 'Cersei and Jaime die together' scenario as an example of theorising that was WRONG.

No. He said that about Jaime kills Cersei theory.

[Minneapple]

OK I found one of the reddit threads that talks about Jon "seeing" Arya. This is the one that had other stuff right -- Viserion breathing fire out of his neck, the Mountain killing Missandei. So the information is kind of incomplete but it seems as though what is there is probably accurate. This could fit with Jon seeing Arya in a crowd of people that Dany is about to dracarys; he then kills Dany to save Arya (and the other people). 

[spaceghostess]

Something (well, a lot of things), but anyway, a small thing has been nagging at me from 8.04:

When Tyrion says to Varys, "Please. Dont.", I can't shake the sense that it's a callback to that line--said in the exact same way--in a long-ago episode. Problem is, I can't remember exactly when or who said it. I feel like it may have been somebody talking to Cersei, possibly Jaime or Tyrion? Aargh, it's driving me crazy. Does anybody know the past scene I'm talking about?

Thanks in advance!

[bijoux]

11 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

OK I found one of the reddit threads that talks about Jon "seeing" Arya. This is the one that had other stuff right -- Viserion breathing fire out of his neck, the Mountain killing Missandei. So the information is kind of incomplete but it seems as though what is there is probably accurate. This could fit with Jon seeing Arya in a crowd of people that Dany is about to dracarys; he then kills Dany to save Arya (and the other people). 

The undead and the undead dragon? This truly gives me pause because is Viserion now going to get raised from the dead? I'm suspicious. 

If Jon kills Daenerys he'll do it from the back, surely. Ned will be so disappointed. 

[John Potts]

3 hours ago, John Potts said:

I don't believe the "Jon quits for the quiet life" ending. I don't have a problem with him not ending on the throne, but he's Stark enough to believe he should always do his duty. The only way he might give it up is after a time jump and he now has a clear heir (a son of him & Danny?). Otherwise, he's condemning the 7Ks to more chaos as the various Houses war to establish themselves as the new King (or Queen).

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

Would he?  None of the current kingdoms have the strength to subjugate the rest so maybe everyone will decide that the idea of one family to rule them all should die with House Targaryen rather than trying to fill the chair.

That would be inconsistent (IMO) with the tone of the series (Book and show) - in GRRM's world, people are incapable of putting aside their petty disputes, even when facing the Snowpocalypse. Why would they suddenly become reasonable when they're no imminent threat? It's a pessimistic view of human nature, but I think a fairly consistent one.

[Callista]

14 minutes ago, spaceghostess said:

Something (well, a lot of things), but anyway, a small thing has been nagging at me from 8.04:

When Tyrion says to Varys, "Please. Dont.", I can't shake the sense that it's a callback to that line--said in the exact same way--in a long-ago episode. Problem is, I can't remember exactly when or who said it. I feel like it may have been somebody talking to Cersei, possibly Jaime or Tyrion? Aargh, it's driving me crazy. Does anybody know the past scene I'm talking about?

Thanks in advance!

Tyrion said it to Shae during his trial, when she began sharing the details of their relationship with the court. He didn't say it out loud for all to hear. He just said it quietly for her alone to hear, something like "Shae. Please. Don't."

Edited May 7, 2019 by Callista

[spaceghostess]

7 minutes ago, Callista said:

Tyrion said it to Shae during his trial, when she began sharing the details of their relationship with the court. He didn't say it out loud for all to hear. He just said it quietly for her alone to hear, something like "Shae. Please. Don't."

Ah, yes--thank you!

[Wendy]

On 5/5/2019 at 6:25 PM, GraceK said:

Exactly. And she didn’t get “ corrupted by power “. She literally got betrayed, lost her children, lost everyone she cared about, all her support, and suffered horribly. We had to see her be stripped and broken down in order for her to “ go mad”. Thats how out of character it is. If you have to beat someone down so much to shoehorn in that ending, it says a lot. And still, her actions are seen as justified. So it still doesn’t work as you can tell by all the rage going around. 

Got betrayed by who? 

She lost Missandie and Rhaegal by her own arrogance and poor planning, this is nobody's fault but hers. Even Emilia has said so in interviews that Daenerys thought she was on top of the world and then was brought back to reality.  

If she is furious it is understandable but she should point the finger square to her chest because she did this. She played right into Cersei's evil hands. Time and time again she goes by her rushed decisions and then bad shit happens. 

[absnow54]

13 minutes ago, bijoux said:

The undead and the undead dragon? This truly gives me pause because is Viserion now going to get raised from the dead? I'm suspicious. 

Their spoilers seem to be out of order, with the episode 3 battle bleeding into the episode 5 battle spoilers. I doubt Jon would fight Viserion twice in the same exact manner. 

[Eyes High]

22 minutes ago, bijoux said:

If Jon kills Daenerys he'll do it from the back, surely. Ned will be so disappointed. 

Why not the front? "The Lannisters Starks send their regards."

I rewatched the 8x05 promo, and in that shot of Tyrion tentatively approaching Dany at Dragonstone, you can see that her hair is undone and completely loose and frizzy. Her hair hasn't looked that wild since her capture by the Dothraki. That's...not a good sign. (I don't know if this is before or after Dany putting her hair in a battle braid and wearing a dark outfit as seen in one of the preseason promos).

Edited May 7, 2019 by Eyes High

[FemmyV]

On 5/5/2019 at 12:59 PM, stagmania said:

Viewing Dany as the villain in this scenario requires the characters and audience to be extremely hypocritical. 

Thank you!

Robert: started a war because he was jilted. Got to be king. Good guy Ned Stark, moral backbone of the show, served him and remained his bestie, agreed to marry his daughter to Robert's spawn.

Some long-past Targaryen burned Harenhall to pieces. Got to rule.

Cersei - blows up the Sept, cuckholds the king, passes off her incestuous crop and the residents of KL who were willing to tear the Guard apart by their limbs accept her.

But Dany's mad and unfit? Fuck that.

I'm down with the idea of destroying the throne and monarchy, altogether, but if they have to destroy Dany's character to do it, that's some bullshit.

 

On 5/5/2019 at 1:38 PM, ElizaD said:

When did the surge of bets on King Bran take place? I'm now wondering if that was due to crew members wanting to make money but not caring about the internet fame of being a leaker. Before this even fake leaks had trouble figuring out something for him to do.

I'd put money on Bran as a hedge, if nothing else. That wheelchair looks more like a throne, every episode.