S03.E01: The Return: Parts 1 and 2

[Ms Lark]

Heh. When I saw Matthew Lillard get thrown in prison, all I could think was "Ruh roh!"

[Moxie Cat]

Noticed upon rewatch that Carel Struyken is credited as "????" Interesting given that Lynch never had a problem calling him "the Giant" before. There was even an episode with that word in the title. Given that and the black-and-white opening, I'm guessing there is some meaning there. Is he no longer the Giant but something else?

Hated the talking tree. Just awful. Especially when the evil doppelgänger tree attacks Cooper. I actually laughed out loud the second time I watched.

[Canada]

OMG, the tree!  I forgot about that!!  That was one of the worst things I've ever seen on TV.  A cheap-ass talking tree.  I have to tune on next week, because it's just so bad that it's fun!

[paigow]

Good Cooper came through the Glass Box...Why was he released? He could only escape if DoppleCooper returned to Black Lodge???

[Moxie Cat]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Good Cooper came through the Glass Box...Why was he released? He could only escape if DoppleCooper returned to Black Lodge???

I think, all things being equal and orderly (at least as far as the "normal" state of the Black Lodge is concerned), Dark Coop would have been sucked back into the Lodge at a certain time automatically. Dark Coop knew that was coming too and mentioned it to Darya. The ArmTree told Good Coop to leave at the right moment the switch should have occurred but Coop was blocked by the hissing portal. The One-Armed Man said "something's wrong" and ArmTree said it was DoppleArm. So apparently Dark Coop and DoppleArm had some type of plan in the works to keep the Coops where they were.

Good Coop winding up at the NYC portal due to DoppleArm's actions actually blocked his release from the Lodge.

ETA: Anyone else get a real "Lost" vibe from the NYC scenes? Very reminiscent of the hatch and the island's scientific stations.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Moxie Cat

[WaltersHair]

Watched the first hour again to give it a second shot. Nope.

Part of my disappointment is with the body found. It's lifted from the opening of not one, but two series of The Bridge. Even the skeezy reporter from the American version is present.

See you in 25 more years.

[La Dee Da]

It's been several years since I saw the original but I remember it having more character-driven elements. These episodes were more artistry oriented, which is fine and thought provoking.  But I want to care about the omniscient glowing tree arm creature, you know?  

I wonder about all the seeming tangents that were introduced - are we going to circle back to them? Like, what's with the prospector ghost in the jail with the principal? Should we care about the handyman's furtiveness? Who is the extra body in the bed? It's going to be an interesting challenge as a viewer - we like to solve puzzles but I think Lynch is more about the journey and why you took the journey than he is about the destination.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, WaltersHair said:

. . . Part of my disappointment is with the body found. It's lifted from the opening of not one, but two series of The Bridge. Even the skeezy reporter from the American version is present. . . .

Which starred Matthew Lillard as the reporter —who really should have some awards by now, right? More of his character could save this.

Too bad they offed Madeline Zima in the opening 2 hours. She really has a Twin Peaks vibe.

I watched the original for the first time a few years ago,(1)
and watching this reminded me of the excellence of the first season but not the second. IIRC, Lynch said in interviews it wasn't supposed to have a second season. While I can appreciate that he happened upon some original, creative bits in the second season and subsequent movie that he felt were worth using in this sequel, a little more structure might not have been a bad thing.

Not sure if I can stick with this.

1. Note to others without the requisite subscription: Nearly every library—public or academic—has the DVDs of the 1990s available for check out.

Edited May 23, 2017 by shapeshifter

[Peanut6711]

13 hours ago, Canada said:

OMG, the tree!  I forgot about that!!  That was one of the worst things I've ever seen on TV.  A cheap-ass talking tree.  I have to tune on next week, because it's just so bad that it's fun!

You really do have to wonder in which universe Lynch was doing the post-production work and decided against leaving those scenes on the cutting room floor. 

12 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

I think, all things being equal and orderly (at least as far as the "normal" state of the Black Lodge is concerned), Dark Coop would have been sucked back into the Lodge at a certain time automatically. Dark Coop knew that was coming too and mentioned it to Darya. The ArmTree told Good Coop to leave at the right moment the switch should have occurred but Coop was blocked by the hissing portal. The One-Armed Man said "something's wrong" and ArmTree said it was DoppleArm. So apparently Dark Coop and DoppleArm had some type of plan in the works to keep the Coops where they were.

Good Coop winding up at the NYC portal due to DoppleArm's actions actually blocked his release from the Lodge.

ETA: Anyone else get a real "Lost" vibe from the NYC scenes? Very reminiscent of the hatch and the island's scientific stations.

You summed that up so well.  The only part that loses me is the one where Lynch decided that would make a fitting introduction to the new series!  Red curtains, black-n-white tile, and a giant I expected. But Glenn Danzig-spray tan Cooper, the worst special effect on TV, and a half dozen new cast members who die before the second hour is up so why should we care about them is definitely not what I would have hoped for with the new Twin Peaks. 

11 hours ago, La Dee Da said:

It's been several years since I saw the original but I remember it having more character-driven elements. These episodes were more artistry oriented, which is fine and thought provoking.  But I want to care about the omniscient glowing tree arm creature, you know?  

I wonder about all the seeming tangents that were introduced - are we going to circle back to them? Like, what's with the prospector ghost in the jail with the principal? Should we care about the handyman's furtiveness? Who is the extra body in the bed? It's going to be an interesting challenge as a viewer - we like to solve puzzles but I think Lynch is more about the journey and why you took the journey than he is about the destination.

Lynch definitely ODed on artsy sci-fi when he produced this.  There's a point as a writer/producer where you have to balance your creative genius (and I use that last word very lightly here) with what appeals to a wider viewership. People cared about Twin Peaks the first time around and it gained a cult following because of the original characters and setting.  You'd think after 25 years and countless conventions and fan gatherings that he'd know that. So I'm still completely baffled why when given the opportunity to revive the show he'd produce something that's so far only seemingly based on Twin Peaks rather than actually about it. 

[TexasGal]

I realized that in my memory the backward talking stuff was waaaaaay cooler than it was in actuality.  Which makes me sad.

I mean, I'm not even going to pretend that I won't watch every minute of this but that was a pretty disappointing first hour.  The second hour did get better but still wasn't as good as I'd hoped it could be.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Also, I felt so old when I saw Matthew Lillard.  I'm sure it was only last week that I was a youngster watching a very young-looking Lillard in Scream.  It wasn't that long ago, was it?!

Yeah, and when the Sheriff said they went to high school together it really threw me because the Sheriff looks like he's at least 10 years older than me and Matthew Lillard is six years younger than me. 

[TheNewJanBrady]

This new season has waaayyyyy ODed on the backward talking stuff! A little goes a long way!

[Pete Martell]

2 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

You really do have to wonder in which universe Lynch was doing the post-production work and decided against leaving those scenes on the cutting room floor. 

You summed that up so well.  The only part that loses me is the one where Lynch decided that would make a fitting introduction to the new series!  Red curtains, black-n-white tile, and a giant I expected. But Glenn Danzig-spray tan Cooper, the worst special effect on TV, and a half dozen new cast members who die before the second hour is up so why should we care about them is definitely not what I would have hoped for with the new Twin Peaks. 

Lynch definitely ODed on artsy sci-fi when he produced this.  There's a point as a writer/producer where you have to balance your creative genius (and I use that last word very lightly here) with what appeals to a wider viewership. People cared about Twin Peaks the first time around and it gained a cult following because of the original characters and setting.  You'd think after 25 years and countless conventions and fan gatherings that he'd know that. So I'm still completely baffled why when given the opportunity to revive the show he'd produce something that's so far only seemingly based on Twin Peaks rather than actually about it. 

A part of me wonders if he made the talking tree stuff as ridiculous as possible as an FU to the guy who played The Man From Another Place. 

I think that this stuff probably is how Lynch sees Twin Peaks. I do think he cares about characters, as his main episodes of the show had very strong character work and so did the movie, and I also think he cares enough to have brought a lot of the old cast back (as he probably could have easily just brought Kyle and Sheryl Lee back), but I think it's more concepts and jolts and how people respond to those jolts are more of his view of the show. The Black Lodge existing to manipulate the world through cosmic order and balance. Laura's death existing to shock and demoralize people and we see their real selves. The "evil Coop" doppleganger being there to shock longtime fans. 

I wouldn't be surprised if he checked out of most of the core of Twin Peaks years ago but still had enough interest in some aspects of it to want another go, just one that was very much on his terms. A certain core aspect that he built the original premise of the show around. And through that he will bring in some characters of the past. It's strange when I see characters like James, or like Andy and Lucy still being Andy and Lucy, because in my head I say, "That's just nostalgia - it's a cash-in," but I don't see Lynch as caring about a cash-in. So he must have some fondness for them. Just something that he keeps very separate from many of his other concepts. Which may be why this feels like several different shows.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Pete Martell

[Peanut6711]

3 hours ago, TexasGal said:

I realized that in my memory the backward talking stuff was waaaaaay cooler than it was in actuality.  Which makes me sad.

I mean, I'm not even going to pretend that I won't watch every minute of this but that was a pretty disappointing first hour.  The second hour did get better but still wasn't as good as I'd hoped it could be.

I second what TheNewJanBrady said-- a little goes a long way. And in the original series it was used more sparsely.  Back then it was an added treat to get a backward talking little person who danced to funky music.  In the current show, there not enough substance to balance it out so it's gonna get old fast. 

1 hour ago, Pete Martell said:

A part of me wonders if he made the talking tree stuff as ridiculous as possible as an FU to the guy who played The Man From Another Place. 

I'm still scratching my head over the inability to get him back due to salary I heard.  I mean, there's some big screen actors making guest starts on this new gig. Surely the cast of "newbies" could have been trimmed to accommodate the originals who were icons for this show. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episodes!

 

Logs, Coffee & Bob: Stay Hot, Bobby Briggs!

After two weeks of think pieces, Twin Peaks is back and turns out it doesn't actually care what you think.

-----

 

Logs, Coffee & Bob: Law & Order: Special Lillard Unit

When Matthew Lillard is the thing that makes the MOST sense about your new season of Twin Peaks, your show is weird.

[Pete Martell]

11 minutes ago, Peanut6711 said:

I'm still scratching my head over the inability to get him back due to salary I heard.  I mean, there's some big screen actors making guest starts on this new gig. Surely the cast of "newbies" could have been trimmed to accommodate the originals who were icons for this show. 

That probably isn't why he wasn't asked back.

http://decider.com/2017/05/22/discover-why-this-twin-peaks-legend-hates-david-lynch/

Edited May 23, 2017 by Pete Martell

[Halo]

6 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

Glenn Danzig-spray tan Cooper

Your whole post is excellent, but I feel like this is pure gold. 

[TexasGal]

2 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

That probably isn't why he wasn't asked back.

http://decider.com/2017/05/22/discover-why-this-twin-peaks-legend-hates-david-lynch/

I wish I could unknow all that.  

So I'm not sure if this needs to be spoilered or not, it's casting related but with a character we haven't seen yet, so just in case... 

Spoiler

I was confused by Lucy asking which Sheriff Truman the insurance guy wanted to see.  I know that Michael Ontkean isn't coming back - so did they recast the character?  If they did, I'd rather they just have some throw away explanation for Truman being gone and have a new sheriff.  

[Moxie Cat]

7 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

Back then it was an added treat to get a backward talking little person who danced to funky music.  In the current show, there not enough substance to balance it out so it's gonna get old fast. 

I was partly relieved and partly worried by the SD story. On the one hand, it was reminiscent of the original show, with a straightforward murder mystery. But on the other hand, it also bore too much resemblance to the Teresa Banks half-hour of FWWM - too many oddball, likely irrelevant characters who are only there for the sake of being weird. In the movie, it was the guy in the diner who repeated himself, the silent woman at the trailer door (Lynch, I believe), the giggly station secretary. Here we have the rambling neighbor, the shady handyman, the jail ghost....and like the movie bit characters, none of these will likely matter.

Conversely, there weren't a lot of extraneous characters like these in the original show, and I would argue that helped average viewers follow the story and care about the characters who were there. I wish Frost would rein in some of this.

I feel like I need to jot down all those names that the neighbor gave to the police in case they amount to something! And this is not something the average viewer would want to do. My parents watched Twin Peaks back in the day because they love mysteries, but they would never be able to get into all this weirdness for weirdness' sake. As said above, a little goes a long way.

Just to be clear: we never saw Hastings and his secretary, or the Richard and Linda mentioned by the Giant, did we?

ETA: just caught on rewatch that the principal's last name was Hastings. This is why this show needs rewatching!

Edited May 24, 2017 by Moxie Cat

[Peanut6711]

4 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

That probably isn't why he wasn't asked back.

http://decider.com/2017/05/22/discover-why-this-twin-peaks-legend-hates-david-lynch/

Oh wow!

[Moxie Cat]

Whatever went down with Anderson, it's no excuse for a talking tree.

Anderson says he doesn't even watch the show, so what does he care if the tree is a big FU to him?

And: Lynch killed Pete Martell? That's some interview (and original post).

[Lemons]

On 5/22/2017 at 0:21 PM, dosodog said:

Because in original recipe TP, Bob was killing people everywhere and not just in TP.  Theresa Banks was killed before Laura Palmer in Oregon.

The FBI had several open murders from different states.

Bob is everywhere!

Who is Bob?  I thought the father killed Theresa banks and Laura?

[smores]

Bob is a . . . demon? spirit? I'm not sure of the right word.  But, he's basically an evil force that inhabits people and causes them to kill.  When Leland killed Laura, it wasn't Leland doing it, it was Bob doing it, while in Leland's body.  Just like when "Leland" killed Maddie, his niece.  At the end, Bob left Leland and took over Cooper.  

I have only watched the first hour so far, but am unsure of this. I had a really, really hard time with the Maddie/Bob death scene in the original run, and on a rewatch, I can't bring myself to watch it.  I think the fact that it was on a network kept it reined in enough that I could watch, but I'm afraid that now that it's on Showtime, I might not be able to handle it.  This disappoints me, as I was looking forward to it, but not enough to subject myself to gore/nightmares from it.

[Moxie Cat]

47 minutes ago, smores said:

but I'm afraid that now that it's on Showtime, I might not be able to handle it.

Did you watch the climactic scene with the glass box in the first hour? It took me years to get over the Black Lodge stuff and FWWM, and just when I though I was good, they throw a scene straight out of a horror movie at me. I hope there's not too much more straight-up gore like that.

[smores]

No, thankfully, I didn't.  I was pretty sure something was going to show up in the box, and once the shadow started walking around, I figured it was best to look away.  My husband quickly confirmed that it was a good idea, and told me when it was safe to watch again (when the entire scene was over).  I also knew Ruth was going to be dead, so as soon as they opened the door, I stopped looking, and again, that was a good plan.  I have to have my husband watch with me to give me the all clear.

[WaltersHair]

Quote

Glenn Danzig-spray tan Cooper

or Tommy Wiseau

[Fable]

I don't have ShowTime, so I couldn't watch this.  I had considered subscribing to it so I could watch, but as far as I can tell, if I didn't like the last part of season 2, it is probably safe to assume I won't like this.  

[dwmckim]

Tears of joy (and years of sadness) that Catherine Coulson was able to film her Log Lady scenes before she was gone.  And that they actually incorporated her illness into the story/character.  My heart is just filled with love seeing her there to deliver one more message but also filled with sadness at how weak she is.  What really broke me was the very sad pleading way she would say Hawk's name.  Each time she'd do so, i'd start to tear up.

I'd love to see this at the end of the series:  Margaret finally passes away (in her sleep painlessly).  She's actually discovered wearing a wedding dress since her log told her that tonight she'd finally be reunited with her beloved husband again.  By her log is a note reading "My log and I are both in agreement.  There's nobody we'd want more to be its caretaker than Dale Cooper."  Cooper inherits it with great honor and pleasure and becomes Twin Peaks' Log Man.  One of the last times we see him, he's in the Double R Diner, orgasmically dining on cherry pie and coffee, conveying a message from the log to someone and finally spitting out some pitch gum and sticking it on the wall.

[dr pepper]

I always thought that the interaction between Cooper and the diner server was very sweet. And i really hoped to see him find her again, now that they can do more than just casually flirt over pie. But i forgot that the series ended up with him possessed. Guess he need to get an exboborcism first.

But here's a question: how is he still an FBI agent? Or if he isn't, how does he have federal access codes?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, dwmckim said:

I'd love to see this at the end of the series:  Margaret finally passes away (in her sleep painlessly).  She's actually discovered wearing a wedding dress since her log told her that tonight she'd finally be reunited with her beloved husband again.  By her log is a note reading "My log and I are both in agreement.  There's nobody we'd want more to be its caretaker than Dale Cooper."  Cooper inherits it with great honor and pleasure and becomes Twin Peaks' Log Man.  One of the last times we see him, he's in the Double R Diner, orgasmically dining on cherry pie and coffee, conveying a message from the log to someone and finally spitting out some pitch gum and sticking it on the wall.

Aw! This made me tear up! I hope this happens but I remind myself this is a David Lynch film and the more likelier end will be a major downer. 

I rematched these episodes yesterday and found myself enjoying them (and understanding them) much more than I did on Sunday night. 

[peachmangosteen]

On 5/22/2017 at 11:56 PM, shapeshifter said:

Too bad they offed Madeline Zima in the opening 2 hours. She really has a Twin Peaks vibe.

This. Tracy was one of the few new characters I actually liked/cared about, so I was pretty disappointed they killed her off so quickly.

Edited May 24, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Peanut6711]

13 hours ago, Lemons said:

Who is Bob?  I thought the father killed Theresa banks and Laura?

Leland physically killed Laura and Theresa but he was inhabited by the evil spirit of Bob at the time. (Long gray/black hair and snarling teeth guy) Upon Leland's death, Bob left his body.  Bob appeared upon Josie's death but did not seem to inhabit her.  I assume he was a free spirit until Cooper entered the lodges and Doppelganger Cooper escaped possessed by Bob. 

4 hours ago, dr pepper said:

But here's a question: how is he still an FBI agent? Or if he isn't, how does he have federal access codes?

I wondered that too. I'm going to assume spray tan Cooper has hacked their system. Surely Gordon Cole hasn't kept Cooper's credentials active all these years. 

[PepperMonkey]

Unpopular opinion time: I'm afraid this is weird just for the sake of being weird.

I'm hopeful it will make some semblance of sense at some point, so I'll keep watching.

For now.

[iMonrey]

Quote

FWWM

?

Quote

 I had considered subscribing to it so I could watch, but as far as I can tell, if I didn't like the last part of season 2, it is probably safe to assume I won't like this.  

I'd say that's a safe bet. I loved the first season - was just as nuts about it as anyone else at the time. But I thought Season 2 was in incomprehensible mess and couldn't make heads nor tails out of it. This re-launch seems to be doubling down on that kind of weirdness.

Quote

Unpopular opinion time: I'm afraid this is weird just for the sake of being weird.

I'll allow that it's "art." It's David Lynch's variety of art, anyway. And I get that there will be an audience for this kind of art. This show has something to offer to those who can appreciate the imagery and effects and atmosphere and don't care if they don't understand what's going on because it just makes them feel something. And that's a legit reason to like art. But I need a story I can follow and grasp. I don't watch TV to see art, I want to watch a story. If I want art I'll go to a museum.

That said, I'll probably keep watching because it's airing right when all the other shows have gone on hiatus for the summer and there's not much else on right now.

[hoodooznoodooz]

FWWM = Fire, Walk with Me

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This. Tracy was one of the few new characters I actually liked/cared about, so I was pretty disappointed they killed her off so quickly.

Of course, on a show like this, they could just "bring back" her [Madeline Zima] doppelgänger.

[Pete Martell]

14 hours ago, Fable said:

I don't have ShowTime, so I couldn't watch this.  I had considered subscribing to it so I could watch, but as far as I can tell, if I didn't like the last part of season 2, it is probably safe to assume I won't like this.  

This is about as far from the last part of season 2 as I think they could get. 

[dosodog]

18 hours ago, smores said:

Bob is a . . . demon? spirit? I'm not sure of the right word.  But, he's basically an evil force that inhabits people and causes them to kill.  When Leland killed Laura, it wasn't Leland doing it, it was Bob doing it, while in Leland's body.  Just like when "Leland" killed Maddie, his niece.  At the end, Bob left Leland and took over Cooper.  

I have only watched the first hour so far, but am unsure of this. I had a really, really hard time with the Maddie/Bob death scene in the original run, and on a rewatch, I can't bring myself to watch it.  I think the fact that it was on a network kept it reined in enough that I could watch, but I'm afraid that now that it's on Showtime, I might not be able to handle it.  This disappoints me, as I was looking forward to it, but not enough to subject myself to gore/nightmares from it.

Maddie/Bob was horrific.  It truly was.  Louis Armstrong in the background, crooning What a Wonderful World, everything was so calm and normal.

AND THEN BAM!  We're confronted, suddenly with a violent attack, culminating in Maddie head being smashed into a glass frame.

Weird dude in the box was gross and for me, not horrific, even with the end result.  It wasn't personal.  The scene didn't lull you into a false sense of security. 

So for me, weird dude was gross, but did not hit my gut.  Maddie's death wasn't gross in a visual way, but hits me harder and I feel more pain and sadness.

I've managed to watch up to episode 4 and I'm sticking with it.  While not hitting all the emotional points I want, I've decided it's okay. I feel that this show will build for several episodes before we get a payoff.

It's 25 years later, nothing can ever capture whatever it is that makes something a phenomena a second time around. It was never going to be the Twin Peaks from before.

[Pete Martell]

3 minutes ago, dosodog said:

Maddie/Bob was horrific.  It truly was.  Louis Armstrong in the background, crooning What a Wonderful World, everything was so calm and normal.

AND THEN BAM!  We're confronted, suddenly with a violent attack, culminating in Maddie head being smashed into a glass frame.

Weird dude in the box was gross and for me, not horrific, even with the end result.  It wasn't personal.  The scene didn't lull you into a false sense of security. 

So for me, weird dude was gross, but did not hit my gut.  Maddie's death wasn't gross in a visual way, but hits me harder and I feel more pain and sadness.

 

17 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Did you watch the climactic scene with the glass box in the first hour? It took me years to get over the Black Lodge stuff and FWWM, and just when I though I was good, they throw a scene straight out of a horror movie at me. I hope there's not too much more straight-up gore like that.

The glass box scene itself I thought was terrifying. This bizarre creature appearing, in this flickering sense of  with the two people in complete shock (and it actually felt like shock to me, rather than actors just trying to play shock) and confusion. I thought it was wonderfully done. The show itself sometimes feel so stylized and doesn't have the hyper-emotionalism that the original show had to cut through that, so I was happy that this moment felt so real.

The scene where it sliced them to pieces was a different experience for me because - I'm not going to say I found it funny, because I didn't, but there was something strangely campy about it. I'm not sure if that was intentional or not. It reminded me of the old game Phantasmagoria (looking back I wonder if that was any kind of homage to Twin Peaks, as the heroine looks a bit Lynch-esque, her husband is possessed, has long hair, is hammy - he could be Bob, really...or Leo Johnson). The death and gore scenes in that are genuinely horrific, yet some of them also have those traces of camp to them. The atmosphere of the scenes, and the setup to them, with the flirting before she came into the room, reminded me a lot of those late '80s and early '90s syndicated shows that I was hooked on, like Friday the 13th, among others. I'm not sure if Lynch is still in the '90s or if he just wants to go back to that motif, but either way, I kind of like it. 

I do think that the scene would have been more frightening if we didn't see it kill them, but maybe that wasn't what he was going for. 

Nothing can compare for me with the scene of Maddy having the vision of Bob coming toward her. It was one of the most disturbing moments I have ever seen on television. So I'm not expecting anything like that this time around. I do think that the appearance of the box creature was brilliantly done though.

[jsbt]

The janky FX on the glass box monster and to a lesser extent the evolved Arm/tree/MFAP are typical Lynch - I think he strives for that weird sort of quasi-chintzy effect to disturb people, though the 'bad CGI' seems to outrage some fans. I was more disturbed by the build-up to the monster than its actual attack, but some people were freaked the fuck out by that funky sort of cloud superimposed on the bodies. Which I think is the idea. He still has that sense of ominous, slow stillness in sequences like that; he started layering it into the show beginning with the premiere of Season 2.

[Moxie Cat]

On May 24, 2017 at 6:12 AM, dr pepper said:

But here's a question: how is he still an FBI agent? Or if he isn't, how does he have federal access codes?

I got the impression that Dark Coop was manipulating the computer in some supernatural way to get it to give him the answers he wanted (not needed, heh). You saw the screen constantly sputter with static as he worked on it. And all of the info he entered, including the credentials as well as the search fields, were just strings of random characters. It was like it didn't matter what he entered.

17 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Of course, on a show like this, they could just "bring back" her [Madeline Zima] doppelgänger

Yes, I'm expecting both of them to show up in the Black Lodge. Death does not necessarily mean an actor's departure on shows like this. :) We sure saw Sheryl Lee a lot!

Edited May 25, 2017 by Moxie Cat

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

The scene where it sliced them to pieces was a different experience for me because - I'm not going to say I found it funny, because I didn't, but there was something strangely campy about it.

I actually laughed out loud at the slicing. The part where the shadowy figure was appearing scared the shit out of me, but then the slicing part was so campy that I just couldn't stop laughing. Which tbh worked for me because the first part did seriously scare me so I needed that laugh.

[Pete Martell]

I know this sounds weird, but did anyone else get a vibe that they were sort of styling Matthew Lillard's wife on Hillary Clinton (of earlier years anyway - sort of '90s-ish)? The way she was styled, and then beyond that, the way their marriage was presented. It just gave me that feeling. I don't know why. 

I also wanted to say that I loved the moment where Ben and Jerry were having one of their usual odd non-conversations and Ben finished by saying, "Are you wearing Mother's hat?" A part of me always wanted to kick the shit out of Ben, but that really made me laugh.

[jsbt]

That whole scene cracked me up. It was one of relatively few moments in the two-hour premiere where they leaned on the old vibe (not that I had a problem with them going elsewhere) - the Hornes' banter was pitch-perfect, and the punchline with the hat was great.

The discussion of Beverly (Ashley Judd) did make me wonder if Ben is still playing at being "Good Ben".

[Nashville]

19 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

You saw the screen constantly sputter with static as he worked on it. And all of the info he entered, including the credentials as well as the search fields, were just strings of random characters. It was like it didn't matter what he entered.

Er - actually, I believe that was a pretty standard Hollywood-esque representation of a secure terminal establishing an encrypted-data-transmission session.  They used the same random-noise-dissolving-into-a-coherent-image effect in the movie Sneakers.

[Moxie Cat]

16 hours ago, Nashville said:

Er - actually, I believe that was a pretty standard Hollywood-esque representation of a secure terminal establishing an encrypted-data-transmission session.  They used the same random-noise-dissolving-into-a-coherent-image effect in the movie Sneakers.

I never saw Sneakers (but wouldn't the tech in that movie be pretty old by now?). My interpretation was due to a few things: static/electricity as a sign of Black Lodge-related activity; the fact that Lucy mentioned that Cooper had been missing for 25 years and it seems likely that even Good Cooper's credentials wouldn't still be valid after that length of time (or work, given tech and encryption changes); and that it seems more likely that Dark Coop would use supernatural means rather than high-skilled hacker abilities to access the data he wanted (especially that quickly). I mean, this is someone who killed a man by pressing his face - clearly he's got something unusual going on. 

Just saw the interview with Lynch in this week's EW, in which he expresses his aversion to explanations, so I doubt we'll get a specific answer about this scene one way or another!

Edited May 27, 2017 by Moxie Cat

[Pete Martell]

Rewatching the two episodes, I think I probably got into the Black Lodge material the most, mostly because I felt like the various scattered pieces shown there over the years were threaded together to effective use, especially the bookends of Leland - the part at the end where he asked Cooper to find Laura gave me a chill. The tree was ridiculous and the tree's doppleganger was also ridiculous, but the two combined tipped over into some kind of sublime ridiculousness, especially when the "bad" tree attacked Cooper. The scenes of Cooper floating out and the strange elevator blip crash sequence in the glass box as he tried to leave reminded me of old FMV cut scenes, which I appreciated, as I prefer quasi-kitsch to shiny effects. 

The last scenes between Margaret and Hawk were almost too sad to process. When she said she was too weak to go out and help him look for Cooper I had a lump in my throat. I liked that her last words to Hawk were that she'd give him some good food when he came by to visit. I'd almost rather that be our last image of her - caring and nurturing and still being there - and they leave the character alive in our minds.

The whole sequence where "bad" Cooper killed that Darya woman was one I didn't watch at first, mostly because I think that we already knew he was monstrous without needing a set piece, and also because I felt like it was almost fetishizing such violence against women (although that may be why they had him move the pillow away to show her after he'd shot her - to show the reality), but the woman who played Darya did harrowingly good work in the scene, alternating between numb fear when he would ask her questions and desperate panic when she would try to get away even when she knew she couldn't. Kyle MacLachlan is doing a very good job as "bad" Cooper - he isn't overplaying the depravity of Bob, or trying to do a Frank Silva impression. Even without the murder sequences you would easily know this Cooper is completely dead inside, just from looking into his eyes, or the way he pitches his voice so flat and calculated. I also liked the touch of "bad" Cooper using a tape recorder to let Darya know he was onto her - the best possible way of showing how he has perverted everything Cooper stood for (Cooper using a tape recorder for heroics, for everyday musings, et al). 

I didn't realize that was Jennifer Jason Leigh as one of his mini-harem/organization. Odd use of her, but...she certainly had a lot of screen presence. 

The parts with the Ruth Davenport murder were probably most stilted for me, although Matthew Lillard gave a decent performance. I was anxious the whole time the plus-size woman was on as I was afraid she was going to be humiliated or violently killed and it would be treated in a grotesque way. I'm glad that wasn't the case.

Of anything in these episodes I think I may have been happiest to see a show that had actual closing credits again. The song was gorgeous too. 

[paigow]

When Laura exited her scene with Cooper, the sound effects were the same as the glass box room killing...this was not the first time something escaped from the glass box...so why keep using the same containment technology????

[tennisgurl]

The whole time the Magic Tree was on screen, I kept feeling like I was seeing the novelty singing Christmas tree my parents put up every year that our dog is terrified of. Maybe she would be into this?

Well, this definitely wasn't the Twin Peaks of old. I don't exactly have Twin Peaks nostalgia (I was like one year old when it came out) but I watched it a few years ago on Netflix with my (at the time) boyfriend, so I still have some nice memories of the show, so I was kind of putting off seeing this, after being let down by some of the other revival shows lately. I'm going to judge this when I see the whole thing, but this episode was mostly just...weird. And not in the classic Twin Peaks way either. The thing that made Twin Peaks work was that it combined the quirky town and soap opera hijinks with the creepy supernatural story in the background. Granted, the hijinks didn't always work (especially later on) but it was a part of the shows charm. This was just confusing and bizarre, and filled with characters I don't know, doing things that I don't get, in places that aren't Twin Peaks. But, like I said, I will reserve judgement on those fronts.

The parts I liked the best were the ones with characters I knew, and scenes that actually seemed to be interesting, and not just oblique weirdness. I thought the glass case stuff was kind of interesting (even if they're containment system sucks), and I loved all the scenes with Margaret and Hawk. If we had more of that, I think I would have gotten into it more. And seeing Leland asking Cooper to find Laura was definitely the creepiest part of the episode. The biggest laugh?  "James has always been cool". Oh, Honey. James was never cool. The James parody character in the Duel Spires episode of Psych was cooler.

[DrSparkles]

oy, I'm so confused. who were those girls in the booth at the end? and who was that that pointed his finger as a gun?

lastly, was that Julee Cruise singing at the end?? Let's just say she helped me 'relax' at the end of many long, dance-filled nights/mornings.