Speculation Without Spoilers

[ShadowFacts]

From http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/18/better-call-saul-season-2-finale-bob-odenkirk-klick-chuck If Jimmy gets disbarred, could he change his name (legally) and take the lawyer exams in the new name?

If he loses his license permanently, no.  He might get a temporary suspension, then be able to practice again.  When he changes his name legally, his whole history still follows him. 

[editorgrrl]

From the "Klick" episode thread:

Why were we shown Rebecca for an entire episode when the plot wasn't significantly advanced by her presence?

Because Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould dole out information slowly, and trust viewers to stick around for the ride. They respect the intelligence of their audience, and I in turn put my trust in them.

[shapeshifter]

From the "Klick" episode thread:

Because Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould dole out information slowly, and trust viewers to stick around for the ride. They respect the intelligence of their audience, and I in turn put my trust in them.

Me too. But sometimes an ex-wife is just an ex-wife. LOL.

[ghoulina]

I think we might see Rebecca again. I'm hoping that we see what exactly the catalyst was for Chuck's illness, and I imagine it has something to do with how things ended between them. I don't think they're done exploring Chuck's story just yet, and I definitely trust the writers to tell us that story in just the right way. 

[Umbelina]

I hope it's about Chuck's illness.

 

I seriously doubt it though.  It's much more likely to be another "emmy reel" scene from McKean about how Jimmy fucked up.  I really hope they bring the actress back, I liked her.  Again though, they don't need her on screen to let McKean talk and talk and talk some more about whatever thing Jimmy did to ruin things for Chuck there.

 

I so hope I'm wrong, and I will be the first to stand up and cheer if these writers do something fresh, or new to resolve that one.

[Bryce Lynch]

I wonder if Victor or Tyrus left the "Don't" note on Fring's behalf

[Captanne]

Oh, I'm waiting for the show to answer my (largely rhetorical) question about Rebecca.  

[shapeshifter]

A post from the Klick thread* which also fits here:

Yes, except isn't there some lawyerly/philosophical thing about: The absence of evidence is not evidence of [whatever they're investigating] not existing?

If I'm understanding you correctly, that would only apply if the tape itself is missing. But what if the tape exists, but it's been altered to appear as though Jimmy was never in the copy shop that night? I'm no expert in digital forensics, but I think it's possible surveillance video can be edited and the timestamps can be altered too. It doesn't seem as though the clerk would make the tape itself disappear, as that would draw suspicion to himself.

Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but it seemed to me the show made a deliberate point of showing Jimmy paying the clerk to delete his videotaped appearance in the copy shop.

Sorry, I wasn't clear because in an earlier post replying to someone else I suggest/imply/hint/assume that Jimmy might either sneak out the tape from Chuck's house (assuming Chuck doesn't immediately have opportunity to view it and have it forensically analyzed because Jimmy creates a diversion, or else Jimmy gets to the tape at the copy store before Chuck gets the tape--admittedly a lot of assuming of the writers' intent) and then copies Purple Rain or Let it Be or something over it (hopefully using untraceable equipment, or, perhaps better yet using equipment at the same copy store) and puts it back.

What can I say? I have a devious mind with ideas that I don't implement. Heh.

*Hope this is okay this one time with the Mods. I wouldn't make a habit of posting in two places; usually a link to the post in the other thread suffices.

I'm now imagining a Mod in robes on the set of L&O banging the gavel and saying, "I'll allow it this time shapeshifter, but see that you do not make it habit."

Edited April 26, 2016 by shapeshifter

[Lonesome Rhodes]

In the open for next season, we see Jimmy hard at work writing/typing in his miserable Omaha apartment.  What could it beeeeee????  Of course, we won't be given that particular piece of info - until maybe the final ep for next season?  My vote?  He somehow knows how to contact Kim and starts that process.  

 

I also have an idea for the end of the series.  It's not fun.  Jimmy is still miserable.  Still scared of his shadow, selling dough, and not making much.  To make good and dang sure there will be no more questions for Gilligan and Gould?  Suicide.  A last, horrible, consequence/fate for a significant BrBa character.  It would take balls of you-know-what to do it.  I can see G&G, and BO, going for it. 

 

Then, just to really cause an uproar?  The final shot of a self-satisfied and smug Chuck.

[ghoulina]

I am curious how far into Gene's story they will eventually go. This show is about the emergence of "Saul", but with the flash forwards to Gene, we know he's going to factor in. But how much? I love that this show has so many different directions they can take. 

[ShadowFacts]

On 4/26/2016 at 1:50 AM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

In the open for next season, we see Jimmy hard at work writing/typing in his miserable Omaha apartment.  What could it beeeeee????  Of course, we won't be given that particular piece of info - until maybe the final ep for next season?  My vote?  He somehow knows how to contact Kim and starts that process.  

 

I also have an idea for the end of the series.  It's not fun.  Jimmy is still miserable.  Still scared of his shadow, selling dough, and not making much.  To make good and dang sure there will be no more questions for Gilligan and Gould?  Suicide.  A last, horrible, consequence/fate for a significant BrBa character.  It would take balls of you-know-what to do it.  I can see G&G, and BO, going for it. 

 

Then, just to really cause an uproar?  The final shot of a self-satisfied and smug Chuck.

This would be bold, and Gene is in a pretty dark place.  But if there is any Jimmy/Saul spark left in him -- he could wait out the statute of limitations on whatever crimes he committed in NM, keep his new identity but rise from the ashes again.  Probably not as a lawyer, but he could get back to his scamming ways, or launch a new venture.  After a number of years, I don't think he'd be on the radar of the cartel or whoever else he crossed.  I see him as more chameleon than quitter. 

[suzeecat]

Maybe not highly creative, but I'm gonna throw this out there for the heck of it.  The conversation that Chuck (thought that he) recorded may never be heard.  We did not see if the tape recorder actually worked.  Also, the tape could go missing, become damaged or stolen.  The tape itself could become a secondary character in the third season, changing hands, becoming a hostage . . . who knows?

[RCharter]

47 minutes ago, suzeecat said:

Maybe not highly creative, but I'm gonna throw this out there for the heck of it.  The conversation that Chuck (thought that he) recorded may never be heard.  We did not see if the tape recorder actually worked.  Also, the tape could go missing, become damaged or stolen.  The tape itself could become a secondary character in the third season, changing hands, becoming a hostage . . . who knows?

This show has so many award worthy inanimate objects as secondary characters....

1. The Suzuki Esteem

2. Cucumber Water

3. Inflatable Man

4. Playah's Hummer

5. The Mercedes Cupholder

I'm not sure if tape is strong enough to win...but he could be a contender!

[SignGuy77]

3 hours ago, RCharter said:

This show has so many award worthy inanimate objects as secondary characters....

1. The Suzuki Esteem

2. Cucumber Water

3. Inflatable Man

4. Playah's Hummer

5. The Mercedes Cupholder

I'm not sure if tape is strong enough to win...but he could be a contender!

Moscow Mule

The HHM garage trash can

Marco's pinky ring

Mike's pimento brown bag

[ghoulina]

Chuck's space blanket. 

[RCharter]

16 hours ago, SignGuy77 said:

Moscow Mule

The HHM garage trash can

Marco's pinky ring

Mike's pimento brown bag

 

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Chuck's space blanket. 

 

How could I forget these unsung heroes!?!???

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Chuck's space blanket. 

aka The Baked Potato's foil wrap.

[qtpye]

Quote

This show has so many award worthy inanimate objects as secondary characters....

1. The Suzuki Esteem

2. Cucumber Water

3. Inflatable Man

4. Playah's Hummer

5. The Mercedes Cupholder

I'm not sure if tape is strong enough to win...but he could be a contender!

I hope bringing another show into this is not too off topic, but is it wrong that I love and care about all these things much more then the Game of Throne's Sand Snakes?

At this point Inflatable Man could be godfather to my children, to describe how much I love that thing.

I am now going to look into some serious therapy.....

Edited May 1, 2016 by qtpye

[editorgrrl]

On 4/19/2017 at 10:47 AM, seasquared said:

Since the discussion of yellow clothing has come up, has it been discussed yet if color plays as intricate of a role in BCS as it did in BB?

Color was discussed during season 1's "Hero": Hamlindigo (Howard's signature blue) and Jimmy admiring a bunch of saturated "Saul-colored" shirts and ties. But I think Better Call Saul is more about light and dark than about color. Chuck's house is so dark!

[SignGuy77]

Yellow has been associated with the drug world in BrBa, and not just with Gus' yellow shirts and the Pollos signage.

[Bryce Lynch]

On 4/27/2016 at 3:37 PM, ghoulina said:

I am curious how far into Gene's story they will eventually go. This show is about the emergence of "Saul", but with the flash forwards to Gene, we know he's going to factor in. But how much? I love that this show has so many different directions they can take. 

I would love to see a flash forward to the transition period from Saul to Gene, during the timeline that coincides with the last 2 episodes of Breaking Bad.  I want to know exactly what Saul was up against.  Had the DEA (other than Hank and Gomie) connected him to Walter White?  If so, how?  Did Huell talk to them,  after waiting in the safe house for months? Kuby?  Francesca?

How about Skyler?  One of the few things she could have offered the DEA would be to identify Saul as Walt's associate and money launderer.  

Did they find Jesse's confession video at the Nazi clubhouse?

I would love to see some of these discussions or maybe news reports mentioning Saul Goodman aka James McGill being wanted for drug trafficking, money laundering, accomplice to murder, etc.  

I also wonder what Gene's last name is.  I wonder if he used Wexler, the way Walt used Skyler's maiden name, Lambert,   (which always seemed stupid to me), Saint Claire?  Cumstain? :)

Edited April 24, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Bryce Lynch]

On 4/21/2017 at 0:08 AM, editorgrrl said:

Color was discussed during season 1's "Hero": Hamlindigo (Howard's signature blue) and Jimmy admiring a bunch of saturated "Saul-colored" shirts and ties. But I think Better Call Saul is more about light and dark than about color. Chuck's house is so dark!

On BB, Sky

 

On 4/28/2016 at 7:19 PM, SignGuy77 said:

Moscow Mule

The HHM garage trash can

Marco's pinky ring

Mike's pimento brown bag

Mike's transistor radio

Chuck's mailbox

The cocobolo desk

Ernie's blue Evo  ("spoiler" alert!)   

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Did they find Jesse's confession video at the Nazi clubhouse?

My head canon is yes, the authorities went over Walter White's death scene with a fine-tooth comb, and found the confession video.  From that they dove deep into Saul's dealings, and he is being actively sought.  That's why he is so much on edge.  I feel like they'd be remiss if they didn't show something about what Gene knows of this.  I don't think he has much to fear from drug connections/former clients, they're all pretty much dead except for Jesse.  It's law enforcement that he fears. 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

My head canon is yes, the authorities went over Walter White's death scene with a fine-tooth comb, and found the confession video.  From that they dove deep into Saul's dealings, and he is being actively sought.  That's why he is so much on edge.  I feel like they'd be remiss if they didn't show something about what Gene knows of this.  I don't think he has much to fear from drug connections/former clients, they're all pretty much dead except for Jesse.  It's law enforcement that he fears. 

Yes, I definitely agree his worries are from law enforcement, since his drug contacts are all dead.  I wonder what they have on him and how they know it. 

I like to think Jesse's confession video was blown to pieces by a bunch of 7.62x51 rounds, leaving the authorities scratching their head about exactly what happened and wondering if Walt had been in NM all that time cooking for the Nazis.  

[Bryce Lynch]

http://www.amc.com/shows/better-call-saul/video-extras/season-03/episode-05/next-on-better-call-saul-season-3-episode-5

Lots of interesting stuff going in the clip.

It starts with Jimmy sitting in the waiting room of a vets office (presumably Mike's vet) holding his "sick" goldfish in a plastic bag. full of water.  What criminal services does Jimmy need from the vet?

Chuck is shown being sworn in, so clearly and unsurprisingly he testifies.

Speaking to Jimmy at the vending machine, Kim says, "She's gonna hate you when this is over." Jimmy replies, "Yup.".  Who is going to hate Jimmy and why? Rebecca for making her testify about Chuck?

Paige from Mesa Verde says to Kim, "You're sure it's not going to be a problem?" The sneak peak shows a longer scene between

Spoiler

Paige, Kevin and Kim, where Kim informs them that Chuck has made ugly allegations about Jimmy doctoring their files. 

Howard says to Chuck, "It's a solid case."

Jimmy is shown holding a photo in court and asking an unseen witness, "Do you call this normal."  Do we get to see him cross examine Chuck? Please, please!

A lawyer who appears to be the one prosecuting the ethics case against Jimmy asks Chuck, on the witness stand, "Do you hate your brother?"

Chuck, while apparently not in court says, to an unseen person or persons, "This isn't about me.  It's about what's right and wrong. The law is too important!"

In between Chuck's words, we see some sort of large, black audio or video equipment with lots of scary cables and wires being wheeled into the courtroom. Will Jimmy use this to intimidate Chuck?  Will it be used to test whether Chuck can tell if EM producing devices are on or not, to show the ethic board he is nuts?

Jimmy, while apparently cross examining Chuck says, "You got me Chuck, dead to rights." We then get shot of a somber Francesca, in the audience, lowering her head.

It ends with Chuck saying, "Let justice be done!"  

[Hanahope]

So I assume at some point that Gus arranges for an accident that permanently injures Hector that also kills Nacho (since we don't see him or hear about him in BB)

[Bryce Lynch]

16 hours ago, Hanahope said:

So I assume at some point that Gus arranges for an accident that permanently injures Hector that also kills Nacho (since we don't see him or hear about him in BB)

Saul apparently mentions Nacho in episode 208 ("Better Call Saul") of Breaking Bad.  When Jesse and Walt kidnap him and take him into the desert to threaten him, he assumes they are from the cartel and yells, "It wasn't me, it was Ignacio! He's the one!". Many fans believe the Ignacio he blames is Nacho and Peter Gould has hinted that they are the same person.  

[Hanahope]

Ah ok.  He must have risen when Hector is injured 

[Juliegirlj]

Jimmy/ Saul/and even Gene is a survivor. I cannot imagine any scenario in which he would take his own life. At his core he is a realist, with a strong dose of optimism. Regardless of the setting and circumstances, I foresee Jimmy (Gene) trudging through, and taking it one day at a time.

[Tikichick]

At some point I'd like to take a trip in the way back time machine to see how things really went down when the McGill family business went under. 

[SignGuy77]

2 hours ago, Tikichick said:

At some point I'd like to take a trip in the way back time machine to see how things really went down when the McGill family business went under. 

That would certainly be interesting. But I don't know if it's needed. Did Jimmy really steal all that money out of his dad's cash register? Or did Jimmy's dad repeatedly fall for the scam-artists who knew to come into his store? Was Chuck 100% right about Jimmy? Or just 80% right?

In the "Off-Brand" promo clip we can see Nacho manhandling a bloodied up Krazy-8. I'm gonna guess he's not yet a DEA informant, and it's just about Krazy being short on his due funds that week.

[Tikichick]

4 minutes ago, SignGuy77 said:

That would certainly be interesting. But I don't know if it's needed. Did Jimmy really steal all that money out of his dad's cash register? Or did Jimmy's dad repeatedly fall for the scam-artists who knew to come into his store? Was Chuck 100% right about Jimmy? Or just 80% right?

That's not all I'm curious about.  I want to know what kind of fallout the store's failure and his family's financial collapse had on Chuck at that time?  Were the parents at all concerned about any impact on Chuck, or did they assume he was grown and off to college and only Jimmy was vulnerable?  I want to get down to the kernel of Chuck's grudge.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, SignGuy77 said:

That would certainly be interesting. But I don't know if it's needed. Did Jimmy really steal all that money out of his dad's cash register? Or did Jimmy's dad repeatedly fall for the scam-artists who knew to come into his store? Was Chuck 100% right about Jimmy? Or just 80% right?

In the "Off-Brand" promo clip we can see Nacho manhandling a bloodied up Krazy-8. I'm gonna guess he's not yet a DEA informant, and it's just about Krazy being short on his due funds that week.

I think Chuck is about 37.4% right about Jimmy and the money. :)

In the longer preview clip Krazy-8 is shown sheepishly coming into the restaurant to hand his drug receipts to Nacho (who is doing a mediocre impression of Tuco's "lie detector").  Hector is sitting in the back and totally ignores Krazy-8 when he says "Hola, Don Hector."   

Krazy-8's cash is light and he explains that a new guy he had working for him got picked up by the police and threw the stash into the gutter.  Nacho is angry, but tells him to make it up next week.  After Krazy-8 leaves Hector angrily growls, "Who works for who?" and Nacho looks very distressed.

I wonder if the dealer who got arrested is someone we know from BB.  Some people speculated Jesse, but my guess is Skinny Pete.  Skinny Pete had served jail time with Tuco and knew where Tuco's headquarters was located, so I think he would make the most sense.  

[Tikichick]

18 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think Chuck is about 37.4% right about Jimmy and the money. :)

In the longer preview clip Krazy-8 is shown sheepishly coming into the restaurant to hand his drug receipts to Nacho (who is doing a mediocre impression of Tuco's "lie detector").  Hector is sitting in the back and totally ignores Krazy-8 when he says "Hola, Don Hector."   

Krazy-8's cash is light and he explains that a new guy he had working for him got picked up by the police and threw the stash into the gutter.  Nacho is angry, but tells him to make it up next week.  After Krazy-8 leaves Hector angrily growls, "Who works for who?" and Nacho looks very distressed.

I wonder if the dealer who got arrested is someone we know from BB.  Some people speculated Jesse, but my guess is Skinny Pete.  Skinny Pete had served jail time with Tuco and knew where Tuco's headquarters was located, so I think he would make the most sense.  

IMO there's much more to Chuck's claim about the money.

Your thoughts about what's going on with Hector, Nacho, etc. make me realize I need to prepare to approach the show differently next week.  The contrast of the storylines has really made me see just how much BB was stressing me out by the end particularly.  Thank goodness the writers know how to tell a good story, because I'm honestly not sure I'd put myself through it again if I didn't expect it to be told so well.

[Jextella]

I binge-watched Season 1 and part of season 2 recently in hopes of picking up on things that help flesh out the which came first question where Chuck and Jimmy are concerned.  I'm also curious about the Chuck vs. Howard relationship. Why is it Howard bends over backward for Chuck at every turn? He's no longer an asset to the firm, and with Jimmy around, he's more of a liability.

At this point, I think Chuck is simply jealous of Jimmy's personable nature and possibly his way with the law.  The law has been the one thing that Chuck had that helped him shine over his super personable brother.  I'm not convinced he doesn't let Jimmy practice because of his slippin Jimmy ways.  By the time Jimmy passes the bar, he'd been on the straight and narrow for years.  He clearly redeemed himself.  Everyone was supportive - including Howard - at least to some degree - who went on a limb and recommended him for a position with Davis and Mane down the road.  Chuck was the only one who wasn't.  I sense he feels Jimmy would be an even better lawyer that he was.  Examples would be sniffing out the Sandpaper case and having such great success with the video at Davis and Mane. 

As to Howard, I know Jimmy believes he keeps Chuck on so Jimmy doesn't have assume guardianship of Chuck - in which case - he'd cash him out of HMM.  I think there is more to it.   Since we don't hear anything from the senior Howard of HHM, I'm guessing it's rolled into that somehow.

[Hanahope]

On 5/13/2017 at 5:20 PM, Jextella said:

I binge-watched Season 1 and part of season 2 recently in hopes of picking up on things that help flesh out the which came first question where Chuck and Jimmy are concerned.  I'm also curious about the Chuck vs. Howard relationship. Why is it Howard bends over backward for Chuck at every turn? He's no longer an asset to the firm, and with Jimmy around, he's more of a liability.

At this point, I think Chuck is simply jealous of Jimmy's personable nature and possibly his way with the law.  The law has been the one thing that Chuck had that helped him shine over his super personable brother.  I'm not convinced he doesn't let Jimmy practice because of his slippin Jimmy ways.  By the time Jimmy passes the bar, he'd been on the straight and narrow for years.  He clearly redeemed himself.  Everyone was supportive - including Howard - at least to some degree - who went on a limb and recommended him for a position with Davis and Mane down the road.  Chuck was the only one who wasn't.  I sense he feels Jimmy would be an even better lawyer that he was.  Examples would be sniffing out the Sandpaper case and having such great success with the video at Davis and Mane. 

As to Howard, I know Jimmy believes he keeps Chuck on so Jimmy doesn't have assume guardianship of Chuck - in which case - he'd cash him out of HMM.  I think there is more to it.   Since we don't hear anything from the senior Howard of HHM, I'm guessing it's rolled into that somehow.

I think Howard hopes that Chuck will eventually get over his condition and return to full time practice.  Chuck is clearly very smart, a very good lawyer in terms of rules, procedure, arguments, etc.  He's not a great people-person, but does well enough.   He probably has enough of a reputation in the legal/business community that his name still brings in/keeps clients, even if he's not actively working on the files.  Some clients get real skittish when the attorney they originally worked with suddenly quits the firm, even if associates at that firm have actually been doing the work.  It was probably hard enough to keep some clients when Old Hamlin died/retired.   Young Howard was probably an associate under Chuck, who was probably a bit of a mentor to him.  So Howard still feels some deference to Chuck.

I do believe that Chuck believes he is the standard bearer for the law and it insults him that Jimmy got a license.  Believe me, there are people that work in "white shoe" firms, who went to Ivy League law schools that hate the fact that someone like Jimmy can get a law degree via a correspondence course and suddenly be "on equal footing".  Heck some people get all snobby over lawyers who didn't even go to a top 50 lawschool (or even higher).  Plus, I'm sure all his life Jimmy has promised to go straight, then 'slipped' back..  Chuck doesn't want his name, McGill, besmirched with a slippery, possibly criminal attorney (i.e. one who is not above cutting corners and doing wrong things for their clients).

[ShellSeeker]

Quote

I actually had a feeling that now Hamlin is going to have a much better understanding of what Jimmy has been dealing with in Chuck all these years - the vengeful, passive-aggressive, petty man behind the mask - and that he might end up entering into some kind of unlikely alliance with Jimmy to take Chuck down - and this might be the thing that ultimately completes Jimmy's transformation into full-on Saul.

Quote

I more than ever suspect Kim is going to end up partner at HHM, and Jimmy will see that as the final  betryal

I wonder if it will be the opposite: Howard will leave HHM to join Kim's firm, and take most or all the clients with him. Not only would it complete the transformation of Jimmy into Saul, it would probably be the thing that does Chuck in. Having his former respectable partner go into business with his shady, underhanded brother would probably too much for Chuck to handle.

[Jextella]

On 5/5/2017 at 9:51 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

Saul apparently mentions Nacho in episode 208 ("Better Call Saul") of Breaking Bad.  When Jesse and Walt kidnap him and take him into the desert to threaten him, he assumes they are from the cartel and yells, "It wasn't me, it was Ignacio! He's the one!". Many fans believe the Ignacio he blames is Nacho and Peter Gould has hinted that they are the same person.  

Glad to learn that there is hope of Nacho surviving.  The character is great but I'm so worried about his father!

On 5/10/2017 at 2:04 PM, Tikichick said:

That's not all I'm curious about.  I want to know what kind of fallout the store's failure and his family's financial collapse had on Chuck at that time?  Were the parents at all concerned about any impact on Chuck, or did they assume he was grown and off to college and only Jimmy was vulnerable?  I want to get down to the kernel of Chuck's grudge.

Same.  I really think we need to know the family background to understand the source of Jimmy's and Chuck's relationship.  There are too many unanswered questions at this point.  Plus,, it's an amazing premise for a very good story, IMO.

On 6/13/2017 at 1:16 PM, ShellSeeker said:

I wonder if it will be the opposite: Howard will leave HHM to join Kim's firm, and take most or all the clients with him. Not only would it complete the transformation of Jimmy into Saul, it would probably be the thing that does Chuck in. Having his former respectable partner go into business with his shady, underhanded brother would probably too much for Chuck to handle.

I just read another theory that suggests Kim becomes Saul's partner behind the scenes.  There are so many ways for the Kim/Howard/Chuck story to go....I'm beyond curious about how the character's play out.

[qtpye]

Quote

That's not all I'm curious about.  I want to know what kind of fallout the store's failure and his family's financial collapse had on Chuck at that time?  Were the parents at all concerned about any impact on Chuck, or did they assume he was grown and off to college and only Jimmy was vulnerable?  I want to get down to the kernel of Chuck's grudge.

Same.  I really think we need to know the family background to understand the source of Jimmy's and Chuck's relationship.  There are too many unanswered questions at this point.  Plus,, it's an amazing premise for a very good story, IMO.

Maybe we need a prequel to this prequel..."Better Luck Chuck"?  In all seriousness, I used to think that Chuck was exaggerating JImmy's role in the family's financial troubles.  However, after seeing what he did to Irene and how much contempt Jimmy had for his father, now I am not so sure.  Jimmy thought his father was a failure in that he did not protect his family from scammers and hustlers, because being kind is always the right thing to do.  It was the exact type of contempt that Jimmy has for his marks.
 

Quote

 

I more than ever suspect Kim is going to end up partner at HHM, and Jimmy will see that as the final  betryal

I wonder if it will be the opposite: Howard will leave HHM to join Kim's firm, and take most or all the clients with him. Not only would it complete the transformation of Jimmy into Saul, it would probably be the thing that does Chuck in. Having his former respectable partner go into business with his shady, underhanded brother

 

Does anyone think that the common frustration of dealing with the McGill brothers might lead Kim and Howard into each other's arms and this will be seen as the ultimate betrayal by Chuck and Jimmy?

[TVFan17]

Normally I would be all over the Spoilers thread for any show I regularly watch, but I can't find any spoilers for the season finale at all!  I might be looking in the wrong places, but it seems like the spoilers are in short supply for Better Call Saul.

So, I am bringing my speculating and pondering to the Speculation/Non-Spoiler thread!

I think there is a fair degree of speculation as to what will happen to Nacho -- if not in the Season 3 finale, then at some point in the series -- because of his dangerous life. 

We know that there is something unspecified that Nacho does, which is apparently serious enough for Saul to think that a masked Walter and Jesse are about to kill Saul in the desert because of it (in Season 2 of BB) -- prompting Saul to remind them that "it was Ignacio."  And yet, we never see Ignacio/Nacho on Breaking Bad, right?

So, we are possibly in 2003 in the Better Call Saul time frame right now, correct?  And that BB episode where Walter and Jesse kidnap Saul and Saul mentions Ignacio was supposed to be taking place in 2008, right (even though the episode aired in 2009)??

What I am wondering is, IF Nacho were to get killed in the BCS 2003 timeline, after 5 years of all sorts of Saul's expected shenanigans and shady associates, would it be likely that Saul's mind would immediately go to Ignacio/Nacho and whatever he did 5 years in the past when Walt and Jesse abduct him?  I mean, 5 years is a substantial chunk of time to pass for Saul to immediately think of Nacho -- IF Nacho dies in 2003.

So I guess I am wondering if Nacho might survive this season's finale and live for another season or two, to close the gap a little.  That way, if he survives for another couple of years in BCS time, it would make more sense for Jimmy/Saul to immediately think of him.  Otherwise, does Saul encounter no other people who are involved in dangerous lifestyles along the way? 

[Christina]

2 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

Normally I would be all over the Spoilers thread for any show I regularly watch, but I can't find any spoilers for the season finale at all!  I might be looking in the wrong places, but it seems like the spoilers are in short supply for Better Call Saul.

Apparently, they did not send out screeners of the season finale this year, so there aren't any spoilers because no one has seen the episode, except production who have managed to keep it under wraps.

Nacho makes it to the mention in BB you describe, so he must not die in the finale. We are probably being set up for Hector's crash, and are therefore just going to ignore the mention by Hank in BB that Hector had a stroke in prison and still wouldn't give up the cartel in exchange for a reduction in his sentence or being moved to a better prison (something like that). Maybe in the finale he'll have a stroke, and we will just read Hank's comment to not mean that it happened in prison. 

I think Nacho has become a fan favorite and TPTB really like Michael Mando, so he'll be around until the end. It seems unlikely that Hector will suspect him of anything, because he would definitely have him killed, and it doesn't make sense that Saul would mention him in BB so much later. 

[rue721]

I don't think Nacho is going to die -- his story doesn't seem over yet. He still has a lot further he could fall! But maybe what I mean is just that I HOPE Nacho doesn't die! ;)

[ShadowFacts]

4 hours ago, Christina said:

I think Nacho has become a fan favorite and TPTB really like Michael Mando, so he'll be around until the end. It seems unlikely that Hector will suspect him of anything, because he would definitely have him killed, and it doesn't make sense that Saul would mention him in BB so much later. 

He is a fan favorite, but I'm not so sure that will keep him alive.  We're just not sure that the Ignacio Saul mentions once is this Ignacio.  He is always referred to as Nacho I think.  Ignacio is not an uncommon name.  We see Victor in BB but not Nacho.  Nacho is trying to kill/has tried to kill both Tuco and Hector.  He's got his own business going on the side.  I will not be surprised if he sticks around, or if he buys the farm.  There is potential for him to take a bullet for his father, something like that.  I think it will be either him or his father that doesn't make it in the finale.  Something big and dramatic. 

[Jextella]

12 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

He is a fan favorite, but I'm not so sure that will keep him alive.  We're just not sure that the Ignacio Saul mentions once is this Ignacio.  He is always referred to as Nacho I think.  Ignacio is not an uncommon name.  We see Victor in BB but not Nacho.  Nacho is trying to kill/has tried to kill both Tuco and Hector.  He's got his own business going on the side.  I will not be surprised if he sticks around, or if he buys the farm.  There is potential for him to take a bullet for his father, something like that.  I think it will be either him or his father that doesn't make it in the finale.  Something big and dramatic. 

I don't get the Ignacio / Nacho correlation.  Is that just because "Nacio" in Ignacio is similar to "Nacho"???

[ShadowFacts]

4 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I don't get the Ignacio / Nacho correlation.  Is that just because "Nacio" in Ignacio is similar to "Nacho"???

Yes, Nacho is a nickname for Ignacio. 

[Jextella]

1 minute ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, Nacho is a nickname for Ignacio. 

Thank you!

[TVFan17]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 4:26 AM, Christina said:

Apparently, they did not send out screeners of the season finale this year, so there aren't any spoilers because no one has seen the episode, except production who have managed to keep it under wraps.

Nacho makes it to the mention in BB you describe, so he must not die in the finale. We are probably being set up for Hector's crash, and are therefore just going to ignore the mention by Hank in BB that Hector had a stroke in prison and still wouldn't give up the cartel in exchange for a reduction in his sentence or being moved to a better prison (something like that). Maybe in the finale he'll have a stroke, and we will just read Hank's comment to not mean that it happened in prison. 

I think Nacho has become a fan favorite and TPTB really like Michael Mando, so he'll be around until the end. It seems unlikely that Hector will suspect him of anything, because he would definitely have him killed, and it doesn't make sense that Saul would mention him in BB so much later. 

I don't really think Nacho will die tonight, and he might stick around for a season or two longer, but we don't know that he makes it to the BB timeline.  We only know that he is mentioned by Saul in 2008.  For all we know, Nacho could die in 2007 or 2006, in BB/BCS time, and whatever it is that he does (that Saul vaguely references) could be fresh on Saul's mind in 2008, when he is abducted by Walt and Jesse.   

However... I am hoping that Nacho can escape the drug world, and eventually get help from Saul to "disappear" and go off to his own Cinnabon somewhere out there!  I would like to think that Saul had some practice with helping clients disappear by the time he offered that service to Walt and Jesse on BB.  Maybe Nacho was a successful "disappearance"!

 

 

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 9:20 AM, ShadowFacts said:

He is a fan favorite, but I'm not so sure that will keep him alive.  We're just not sure that the Ignacio Saul mentions once is this Ignacio.  He is always referred to as Nacho I think.  Ignacio is not an uncommon name.  We see Victor in BB but not Nacho.  Nacho is trying to kill/has tried to kill both Tuco and Hector.  He's got his own business going on the side.  I will not be surprised if he sticks around, or if he buys the farm.  There is potential for him to take a bullet for his father, something like that.  I think it will be either him or his father that doesn't make it in the finale.  Something big and dramatic. 

It seems that the Ignacios of BB and BCS are likely the same.  Michael Mando just kind of hinted at that in his live Facebook chat today, but he had to stop himself because he was getting close to revealing too much about whether or not the writers would make sure we finally learn what Saul was talking about in the desert with Jesse and Walt.  He also reminded us that Lalo has been referenced and we have to find out more about Lalo at some point.  So maybe whatever it is that Nacho does (that Saul references in BB) is tied in to Lalo?

I agree that just because Nacho is popular doesn't mean that Nacho is safe from the chopping block.  Not that BCS is supposed to be a murder-fest, of course, but we're 3 seasons in, and none of the key players have been killed off -- even though there is a dangerous cartel and drug business happening, with many dangerous people in the middle of it, on the non-Kim/Chuck/Howard side of the series.     Someone has to go, sooner or later.   Since we know for a fact, without question, who it is from BCS that survives to be around for a while on Breaking Bad (and there are several of them), then the options for a significant, impactful death of a key player from that side of this show would include someone like Nacho, sadly (I am not including the Kim/Chuck/Howard section of the show, because those are separate storylines with their own possibilities). 

But, again, I don't really think that a possible Nacho demise would happen tonight.  I'd say it would probably happen before the series ends, though, IF he doesn't "disappear" with help from Saul.

Edited June 27, 2017 by TVFan17
accidentally had BCS in there when I didn't intend to

[teddysmom]

You know what would really send Jimmy to the dark side permanently - if he and Kim have a falling out and she ends up with Howard, romantically.  And if not romantically, if she goes back to HHM  to work. 

I don't know if there's ever been mention of him being married or not, but while I was watching Talking Saul.  I can't recall if Kim told Jimmy that it was Chuck that screwed him over on the job.  Either way he still resents Howard. 

Patrick Fabian mentioned that Howard tries to do the right thing. When he went over to talk to Kim & the bank people, he thought he was complimenting her on coming up from doc review to having her own practice,  he doesn't realize how condescending he sounded, he made it sound like she wasn't this big league player, even tho he knows she has a great legal mind and is disciplined and principled. 

She took his comments as a slam on her, which gave her the incentive to pay him back the money for law school. 

It would take some doing in the writers' room, but it would be a way for Kim to break with Jimmy down the road entirely, without killing her off. And it would drive Jimmy crazy. To lose the two people in the world you care about, his brother to insanity, and his girlfriend to the man he thinks is his enemy.  Kim is the only reason Jimmy has now for trying to be good.  

[Eyes High]

50 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

You know what would really send Jimmy to the dark side permanently - if he and Kim have a falling out and she ends up with Howard, romantically.  

Well, Howard wears a wedding ring. He could get divorced or have an affair with Kim, I suppose, but that seems like an obstacle. None of that means that Kim won't come back to work for HHM permanently, however.

Someone on the /Bettercallsaul subreddit said that Vince Gilligan hinted on one of the BCS podcasts that there's romantic tension between Howard and Kim, so who knows?

[teddysmom]

Quote

Someone on the /Bettercallsaul subreddit said that Vince Gilligan hinted on one of the BCS podcasts that there's romantic tension between Howard and Kim, so who knows?

I think it's viable that this could be the thing that breaks Jimmy.  He does something that  ends up threatening Kim, not on purpose but just one of his schemes,  and Howard gets her out of the mess and she either goes back to work at HHM or she & Howard end up together.