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It would be funny if what we saw in the season opener was the result of Howard seizing Saul’s property as part of a successful lawsuit against Saul.

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25 minutes ago, Gobi said:

It would be funny if what we saw in the season opener was the result of Howard seizing Saul’s property as part of a successful lawsuit against Saul.

I would love that!

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On 8/25/2018 at 1:13 PM, gallimaufry said:

Okay, here's a wild piece of speculation.  

Kim is cagey about where she grew up.  We don't know anything about her family.  We know nothing about her past before she started in the mail room at HHM.  She seems comfortable in the grifter groove even though she's very paranoid about staying on the straight and narrow.  She also had a strong negative reaction to the bank models and seems to spend a lot of time looking at them but also looking at the locations.  What if she's actually looking for a particular location?  As in, worried that she might one day her work might take her too near to a particular location to which she daren't return?

Why would this worry her?  Why be so vague?  My completely off-the-wall speculation is that Kim was the first person the "Disappearer" disappeared and it's through him that Saul knows of his existence.

Extreme long-shot but I kind of like the symmetry that Kim is another "Gene".

I love everything about this theory, except that I doubt the Disappearer would relocate someone to his own home base of Albuquerque.

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Lots of shows have done the "two-part" season, including Breaking Bad itself.  But I wonder if the two-part structure could hint at some unexpected storytelling plan.....like, we take a crazy time jump forward several years and the second half of S6 takes place concurrently within the Breaking Bad timeline or something.

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18 minutes ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

Lots of shows have done the "two-part" season, including Breaking Bad itself.  But I wonder if the two-part structure could hint at some unexpected storytelling plan.....like, we take a crazy time jump forward several years and the second half of S6 takes place concurrently within the Breaking Bad timeline or something.

There has to be a time jump somewhere, if only to wrap up the Gene story.

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5 hours ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

I love everything about this theory, except that I doubt the Disappearer would relocate someone to his own home base of Albuquerque.

I wouldn't be surprised, however, to learn that Kim had a previous brush with serious criminal activity as a young person in her hometown, as either a perpetrator, victim, or both.

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5 hours ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

But I wonder if the two-part structure could hint at some unexpected storytelling plan.....like, we take a crazy time jump forward several years and the second half of S6 takes place concurrently within the Breaking Bad timeline or something.

It's possible but I read somewhere that they didn't write the season with the split in mind.  There's a cliffhanger but apparently it's a bit of a coincidence.

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(edited)

Courtney points out that Mike telling Kim it was 1000-to-1 that Lalo would reach out to her, was like Marie saying the same thing to Skylar in BB.  She also points out that Kim is the only person Lalo knows in town.  

Courtney also points out a weakness in Gus' plan, in that Gus won't be able to see Lalo in the dark.  

I speculate Gus will climb onto the excavator and turn on its lights, just like Denzel Washington in Courage Under Fire.  And then kapow. 

ETA:  I just realized Lalo can thwart this plan by bringing night vision goggles.  

 

 

 

Edited by PeterPirate
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On 5/13/2022 at 10:15 AM, OutOfTheQuestion said:

Lots of shows have done the "two-part" season, including Breaking Bad itself.  But I wonder if the two-part structure could hint at some unexpected storytelling plan.....like, we take a crazy time jump forward several years and the second half of S6 takes place concurrently within the Breaking Bad timeline or something.

Yeah, as Irlandesa says, my understanding is that the split was mandated late on in order to make the show eligible for two different award seasons -- until very recently, they always talked about wanting it to air as a single run.  That said, they may have been aware of the possibility and planned episode 7 as a suitable break point; or they may have simply decided to break at 7 once they were obliged to because it had the strongest cliffhanger.

In any event, this show and BB very rarely do time jumps and usually don't do them after big moments -- to the best of my recollection, 508 and 515 of "Breaking Bad" didn't jump so much as glide over an indeterminate but what would seem to be relatively lengthy time period.  And 407 did a proper time jump but even then by montage.  I don't think we've ever had a caption on screen.  They'd need to be able to sell the transition visually and I guess the only such transition would be to zoom through to Walt entering.

But they've also heavily hinted that the show will go not just past but through the "Breaking Bad" timeline and we've already had at least the 405 teaser set in that period (it's ambiguous where 601's teaser is set but I would assume somewhere in the time frame of "Granite State").  I took this to imply that we would catch up to the BB timeline relatively early but I just can't see how they can satisfactorily take a time skip with the amount that's still to resolve in the present right now.  

Instead, I imagine there's a good chance we could see other teasers set in the BB era and then there'll be maybe one episode that really blitzes through the era at some pace - probably episode 12, in the manner of "Granite State".  I think it will be quite difficult to integrate the BB material.  The cast look quite different (12 years will do that to you) and BB was shot on film stock which will need to be recreated.  Then again in "El Camino", they tried to pull off 40-year-old Aaron Paul as a 23-year-old opposite a vastly-different-looking Jesse Plemmons so who knows.

It definitely needs addressing though.  For one thing, huge numbers of BCS characters (and two of the leads) meet their end in BB so that's going to be a difficult one to manage unless they do a big montage, although I guess they could do it elliptically -- have Howard build a case where he explains what's happened to everyone.

And one BB mystery that sadly they may really struggle to solve is Ed the Disappearer unless they had the foresight to shoot some scenes in advance when they had the set and actor for "El Camino" and I really don't think they did. 

21 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

How long is the split between episodes?

They're skipping about 6 weeks and episode 8 will air the second week in July. 

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Am I the only one who really doesn’t notice the age differences between the characters in BB and in BCS? Maybe I did at first, but now I’m too busy following the stories and characterizations that that doesn’t register with me. And maybe I’m just old and these differences in people don’t seem as glaring as they do to younger people. 🤷‍♀️

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2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Am I the only one who really doesn’t notice the age differences between the characters in BB and in BCS? Maybe I did at first, but now I’m too busy following the stories and characterizations that that doesn’t register with me. And maybe I’m just old and these differences in people don’t seem as glaring as they do to younger people. 🤷‍♀️

Depends on the characters - generally they've done very well with it in BCS.  I didn't find the differences too noticeable until about S5.  However, I don't think they could pull off cutting in and out of BB material very easily as it would look like chalk and cheese - they could do distance shots perhaps or they'd just have to restage scenes.  (They'd also have to find a way to blend in the film stock - in 405, they used film just for the teaser).

I found it took me right out of "El Camino" though.  Setting aside the obvious with Jesse Plemmons, Aaron Paul changed a lot during his BB years, let alone since, and the flashbacks of him playing 18 years younger felt like a stretch too far.  Bryan Cranston I think could pull it off if he shaves his head -- sadly, even with CGI to shrink his head down to size, it still looked wrong.  My first thought watching him appear in "El Camino" was "woah, baldcap" which yanked me right out of the scene.

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29 minutes ago, gallimaufry said:

Depends on the characters - generally they've done very well with it in BCS.  I didn't find the differences too noticeable until about S5.  However, I don't think they could pull off cutting in and out of BB material very easily as it would look like chalk and cheese - they could do distance shots perhaps or they'd just have to restage scenes.  (They'd also have to find a way to blend in the film stock - in 405, they used film just for the teaser).

I found it took me right out of "El Camino" though.  Setting aside the obvious with Jesse Plemmons, Aaron Paul changed a lot during his BB years, let alone since, and the flashbacks of him playing 18 years younger felt like a stretch too far.  Bryan Cranston I think could pull it off if he shaves his head -- sadly, even with CGI to shrink his head down to size, it still looked wrong.  My first thought watching him appear in "El Camino" was "woah, baldcap" which yanked me right out of the scene.

Jesse Plemmons definitely changed a lot, but after I got into the story I just didn’t think about it. His actions and personality were the things I was focused on.

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As we know, Robert Forster, the actor who played The Disappearer, died a few years ago (Rest in Peace).

That made me wonder if they'll have the Disappearer die as well. Then someone -- law enforcement, some criminal, a family member -- stumbles across something of his that leads to "Gene" being found. I imagine the Disappearer is rather thorough in keeping track of, and destroying, incriminating information, but something may have been left undone.

It would also be a way of acknowledging the actor.

This is just a wild guess. I have no evidence to support this.

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9 minutes ago, Scatterbrained said:

I haven’t read any previous comments, so this has probably already been mentioned.  I speculate that Kim and Howard are half-siblings and Kim resents the stable, established life Howard has lived.

Her mother became an alcoholic because Howard's dad deserted them. But I think its a little late to put that kind of curveball in. 

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I think that a lot of people believe that the final change from Jimmy to Saul will be connected to Kim. I've got two hypothesis. 

The first is a common one here. Kim betrays Jimmy and steals his money.

The second one is that Kim gets more and more involved with the cartel. She changes her mind and wants out. She does her best to get out but gets caught up in a shootout between Lalo and the police. Lalo's dead. Kim's hurt and turns to a policeman who shoots her dead. Jimmy says to himself that if that's what justice is in America today, screw justice. I'll make my own justice. 

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I think the "D-Day plan" is going to go awry.  We now have Kim pushing to go ahead with what is a flawed plan (Jimmy's instincts about when to pull back are almost always accurate), and whatever fix they try to make isn't going to work. 

Beyond that, Howard knows SOMETHING is up.  If he has this big Sandpiper meeting scheduled, he might even suspect this is when Jimmy will strike, given his past ties to the case.  He could have some countermeasures in place that Jimmy and Kim aren't aware of, which might also cause their plan to blow up.

This whole storyline has made me very sympathetic towards Howard, before I realized that it's weird that I wasn't already sympathetic towards Howard as one of the few/only characters on the show who are decent human beings.  Everything about Howard is baked in arrogant privilege, which obscures the fact that he's essentially a good guy.

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4 hours ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

This whole storyline has made me very sympathetic towards Howard, before I realized that it's weird that I wasn't already sympathetic towards Howard as one of the few/only characters on the show who are decent human beings.  Everything about Howard is baked in arrogant privilege, which obscures the fact that he's essentially a good guy.

And that’s exactly how Vince Gilligan works: he blinds us the numerous flaws of characters that we should feel sympathetic to. It isn’t until much later that we realize we’ve been rooting for the wrong person. Think about BB: Hank was introduced as a bigot blowhard while Marie was Skyler’s spoiled sister. It wasn’t until much later, when their character arcs deepened and Walt become a more obvious villain, that they decent people beneath their flaws. Same deal with Skyler: she put into the Nagging Shrew Trope to make the audience root for Walt.

Now I’m getting worried for Howard…

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4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Now I’m getting worried for Howard…

Yeah, I keep going back to Howard not making himself coffee, but pouring water from a kettle into his togo cup. At first I assumed it was to illustrate him going out of his way for Cheryl. Now I'm thinking Howard plus caffeine may not be a good combo. 😟

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3 hours ago, chick binewski said:

Yeah, I keep going back to Howard not making himself coffee, but pouring water from a kettle into his togo cup. At first I assumed it was to illustrate him going out of his way for Cheryl. Now I'm thinking Howard plus caffeine may not be a good combo. 😟

Caffeine can kill in large enough doses.

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32 minutes ago, scenario said:

Caffeine can kill in large enough doses.

The vet said the effect of the drug he gave Jimmy would be equivalent to drinking 2 Red Bulls on an empty stomach. Not even close to being fatal.

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1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

The vet said the effect of the drug he gave Jimmy would be equivalent to drinking 2 Red Bulls on an empty stomach. Not even close to being fatal.

It depends.  Any drug can cause a fatal allergic reaction to somebody.  And the vet said the drug he gave Saul would not show up on a tox screen anywhere in New Mexico.  

So yeah, not only might Howard go out in next week's episode, but perhaps nobody will ever know it was Saul and Kim.  Except for the vet, who may disappear.  

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57 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

So yeah, not only might Howard go out in next week's episode, but perhaps nobody will ever know it was Saul and Kim.  Except for the vet, who may disappear. 

If the only two law abiding lawyers are dead, I will lose faith in the decision makers.

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7 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

If the only two law abiding lawyers are dead, I will lose faith in the decision makers.

To me, it is the proper outcome.  Jimmy McGill has to destroy HHM.  It is his destiny.  

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On 5/14/2022 at 12:08 PM, Cinnabon said:

Jesse Plemmons definitely changed a lot, but after I got into the story I just didn’t think about it. His actions and personality were the things I was focused on.

They've done nice work with Jonathon Banks, age 75, portraying somebody about 20 years younger.

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That’s funny because I see all of Mike’s 75 years in some scenes. I’m like this guy looks like an old man, and I’m no spring chicken myself. There was a scene recently where I  thought the guy he was trying to menace could easily just kick his ass but Mike has strong skills, I guess. They all look pretty old compared to BB but that’s really a long time ago already. I also don’t really care anymore, I’m too interested in the characters now. Just an observation. 

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16 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

To me, it is the proper outcome.  Jimmy McGill has to destroy HHM.  It is his destiny.  

I disagree. I don't think that Jimmy wants to destroy anything. He likes the con. He likes to get the win, however petty. I don't think that he is a destructive force right now.

And frankly, that's part of the problem with keeping this plan so secretive. Why hasn't there been more discussion of what they are planning? Perhaps we don't need every detail spelled out but I would like to get Kim - and more importantly - Jimmy's thoughts on it. Has he considered all possibilities about what could occur and the associated consequences?

BCS has been a character-driven show. Now there is a big plot point in the center of it and I feel like we are missing a lot of character motivation driving to the point.

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15 hours ago, whydoiwatchtv said:

That’s funny because I see all of Mike’s 75 years in some scenes. I’m like this guy looks like an old man, and I’m no spring chicken myself. There was a scene recently where I  thought the guy he was trying to menace could easily just kick his ass but Mike has strong skills, I guess. They all look pretty old compared to BB but that’s really a long time ago already. I also don’t really care anymore, I’m too interested in the characters now. Just an observation. 

Hey, there's only so much you can do, especially with a character who was completely bald when the actor was playing him a few years after this story is supposed to take place. I think they've done well, considering.

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(edited)
3 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I disagree. I don't think that Jimmy wants to destroy anything. He likes the con. He likes to get the win, however petty. I don't think that he is a destructive force right now.  

Oh, I wholly agree.  Jimmy does not want to destroy anything.  But he does things like take money out of his parents' till, and their business goes under.   He's not a bad person.  He just cant help himself.

Edited by PeterPirate
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16 hours ago, whydoiwatchtv said:

That’s funny because I see all of Mike’s 75 years in some scenes. I’m like this guy looks like an old man, and I’m no spring chicken myself. There was a scene recently where I  thought the guy he was trying to menace could easily just kick his ass but Mike has strong skills, I guess. They all look pretty old compared to BB but that’s really a long time ago already. I also don’t really care anymore, I’m too interested in the characters now. Just an observation. 

I always believe Mike is tough as nails.

However, there were scenes when he was wandering into rough neighborhoods and beating up guys that were a third of his age (because he felt guilty about shooting Werner) that looked ridiculous due to the actor's age.

3 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Oh, I wholly agree.  Jimmy does not want to destroy anything.  But he does things like take money out of his parents' till, and their business goes under.   He's not a bad person/  He just cant help himself.

Remember when he made all that lady's friends hate her, to get a settlement on Sandpiper, and then immediately regretted it?

Also, when he admitted what he did to Chuck for Kim to get Mesa Verde?

It's like he loves the con but can not totally commit to the chaos he causes.

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9 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Oh, I wholly agree.  Jimmy does not want to destroy anything.  But he does things like take money out of his parents' till, and their business goes under.   He's not a bad person/  He just cant help himself.

6 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Remember when he made all that lady's friends hate her, to get a settlement on Sandpiper, and then immediately regretted it?

Also, when he admitted what he did to Chuck for Kim to get Mesa Verde?

It's like he loves the con but can not totally commit to the chaos he causes.

Excellent points! All reasons why I still love Jimmy. (Undoubtedly, Bob Odenkirk has something to do with it.)

However, something makes him change and I think that “something” is coming soon.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Remember when he made all that lady's friends hate her, to get a settlement on Sandpiper, and then immediately regretted it?  

Jimmy restoring Irene's reputation to his own detriment was huge in my eyes.  When I re-watch older episodes I always keep that in mind.  

For that matter, I wonder if Jimmy is ever really going to become Saul Goodman.  Jimmy McGill may remain his likeable self but will be forced to retain his outward persona as the Criminal Lawyer.  Wouldn't it be wild if the entire Breaking Bad fandom had to re-watch that show knowing that Saul was really good guy Jimmy McGill underneath?  Wouldn't it be the ultimate joke on all of us who have watched six seasons of BCS in order to see Jimmy transform into Saul, but he never does?  

Edited by PeterPirate
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22 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

The vet said the effect of the drug he gave Jimmy would be equivalent to drinking 2 Red Bulls on an empty stomach. Not even close to being fatal.

The drug may act like Red Bull but it's not caffeine. It's something that's prescribed to animals. It may not be legal to prescribe to people because of uncommon really bad side effects.  

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12 minutes ago, scenario said:

The drug may act like Red Bull but it's not caffeine. It's something that's prescribed to animals. It may not be legal to prescribe to people because of uncommon really bad side effects.  

And administering it to someone without their consent is obviously a serious felony, without regard to whether the person suffers serious harm. This is being done not to keep a loyal associate out of prison, like Jimmy's felonious behavior to help Huell, but just to get revenge on a former boss who was despicable.

Kim's become full-blown batshit crazy. 

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3 hours ago, Bannon said:

Hey, there's only so much you can do, especially with a character who was completely bald when the actor was playing him a few years after this story is supposed to take place. I think they've done well, considering.

I commented during this last episode that Mike is starting to look like Nosferatu.

 

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24 minutes ago, carrps said:

I commented during this last episode that Mike is starting to look like Nosferatu.

 

Those powers could be useful in a showdown with Lalo!

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Everyone has been thinking that Gene is missing Kim, either because she died, was imprisoned, betrayed him, or just left him.

Now Gene may be thinking of breaking cover. Since her betraying him is a strong suspicion right now, that it's what pushed him to become full-fledged Saul, what if he isn't missing her? What if he's looking for revenge, and the near miss on his identity is making him think, "fuck it, if I'm going down, I'm taking her with me."

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34 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Everyone has been thinking that Gene is missing Kim, either because she died, was imprisoned, betrayed him, or just left him.

Now Gene may be thinking of breaking cover. Since her betraying him is a strong suspicion right now, that it's what pushed him to become full-fledged Saul, what if he isn't missing her? What if he's looking for revenge, and the near miss on his identity is making him think, "fuck it, if I'm going down, I'm taking her with me."

Interesting take. In BB, Saul said that he caught his second wife screwing his stepdad. I doubt that is true, but it does indicate some real bitterness.

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2 hours ago, scenario said:

The drug may act like Red Bull but it's not caffeine. It's something that's prescribed to animals. It may not be legal to prescribe to people because of uncommon really bad side effects.  

Right, I was also thinking that Howard may be taking other medications that may have adverse interactions with the animal drug. Howard may even have an allergic reaction to something in the drug. Kim and Saul are taking a big risk by drugging Howard (among many risks). 

On another note, anyone notice the obvious foreshadowing when they cut from a shot of Kim and Jimmy kissing to the scene where Caspar is splitting logs? Or am I reading too much into it?

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(edited)
3 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Jimmy restoring Irene's reputation to his own detriment was huge in my eyes.  When I re-watch older episodes I always keep that in mind.  

For that matter, I wonder if Jimmy is ever really going to become Saul Goodman.  Jimmy McGill may remain his likeable self but will be forced to retain his outward persona as the Criminal Lawyer.  Wouldn't it be wild if the entire Breaking Bad fandom had to re-watch that show knowing that Saul was really good guy Jimmy McGill underneath?  Wouldn't it be the ultimate joke on all of us who have watched six seasons of BCS in order to see Jimmy transform into Saul, but he never does?  

As we all know from the famous Nach/Lalo quote, in the first episode in which Saul appears, Walt and Jesse kidnap Saul and take him out to the desert. After Saul finds out Lalo didn't send them, this exchange takes place

The next time the three of them meet is in Saul's office. When Walt and Jesse complain about the cost of his services, Saul says this

So I'd say Jimmy transforms into Saul by the time Saul first appears in Breaking Bad.

Edited by Constantinople
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(edited)
11 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

I'd say Jimmy transforms into Saul by the time Saul first appears in Breaking Bad.

Yes, Saul is fully formed, but is it just his professional façade that is forced on him by the system and his clients?  Is there anything of the likeable, perhaps even regretful,  Jimmy McGill left inside?  

Edited by PeterPirate
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I was thinking about Kim's dad. One thing people say is that women marry men whose just like their father. I think that Kim's dad was a con man, just like Jimmy. He'd go out of town for a while until her made a big hit and come home. Then for a few weeks he'd spend lots of time with little Kimmy. Spend money on her. Pay her a lot of attention. Sweep her off her feet. Until he ran out of money. Then he'd leave town, until the next time. 

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(edited)
46 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Yes, Saul is fully formed, but is it just his professional façade that is forced on him by the system and his clients?  Is there anything of the likeable, perhaps even regretful,  Jimmy McGill left inside?  

Those are two different questions.

Even now Jimmy is pursuing some kind of scheme against Howard that has nothing to do with the system or his clients. He only tells Kim they should call it off and get Howard later when he taunts thinks the scheme will fail and possibly get them caught.

By the time Breaking Bad rolls around , Saul isn't a criminal lawyer, he's a criminal lawyer, often a co-conspirator and frequently the one to suggest new criminal ideas to his clients. Saul chose this. And though Saul didn't use the phrase "take a trip to Belize" until Season 5, Saul made the same suggestion to Walt in Season 3 about Jesse when Jesse was still threatening to pursue Hank. I don't think it's just a facade.

That said, Saul has his kinder moments, such as with Brock, Andrea's son

You couldn't argue that it's all Saul fake charm and BS, but Brock warmed up to him and Brock never did that with Walt. Brock was always wary of Walt. 

Edited by Constantinople
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3 hours ago, Gobi said:

Interesting take. In BB, Saul said that he caught his second wife screwing his stepdad. I doubt that is true, but it does indicate some real bitterness.

Though Kim is his third wife, as he guiltily admitted to the courthouse clerk when they officially got married.  I don't think BCS has ever gotten into any detail whatsoever about Jimmy's first two wives or what that situation was all about.

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3 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Those are two different questions.

Even now Jimmy is pursuing some kind of scheme against Howard that has nothing to do with the system or his clients. He only tells Kim they should call it off and get Howard later when he taunts thinks the scheme will fail and possibly get them caught.

By the time Breaking Bad rolls around , Saul isn't a criminal lawyer, he's a criminal lawyer, often a co-conspirator and frequently the one to suggest new criminal ideas to his clients. Saul chose this. And though Saul didn't use the phrase "take a trip to Belize" until Season 5, Saul made the same suggestion to Walt in Season 3 about Jesse when Jesse was still threatening to pursue Hank. I don't think it's just a facade.

 

We never see Saul's home life in BB.  We don't know what he is like when he leaves work.  I'm just speculating that Saul remains Jimmy, the one who feels regret over taking advantage of the Irenes of this world and is willing to use carrots instead of sticks whenever possible.  

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From the Media thread:

Quote

“This is not a spoiler, what I’m saying here,” Odenkirk adds. “It’s weird, because it sounds like maybe I’m pitching that Saul becomes this goodhearted, generous, caring person. I can’t tell you where he ends up, but it’s not like he has some revelation of humanity. I think he gets to …” Odenkirk pauses. “I think I’ve said all I can say. But I like where his journey ends. And I think you’ll like it too.”

I'm calling it now.  Jimmy McGill never goes away.  The Saul Goodman we see in BB is a professional façade, one that he must maintain in order to keep his reputation as The Criminal Lawyer and El Amigo Del Cartel.  

But when he goes home, he will be Jimmy McGill--Slipping Jimmy, to be sure--but still the one with a good heart.  

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