S03.E20: I Know Who You Are

[Trini]

Quote

VIBE FACES OFF AGAINST KILLER FROST

- Barry and the team meet Tracy Brand (guest star Anne Dudek), a scientist, who may be the key to stopping Savitar. Unfortunately, Killer Frost is also after Tracy so Team Flash must battle their old friend, which proves to be particularly difficult for Cisco. Joe and Cecile's (guest star Danielle Nicolet) relationship takes a big turn.

Hanelle Culpepper directed the episode written by Bronwen Clark & Joshua V. Gilbert

 

[Trini]

Producer preview:

[johntfs]

I wonder if Brand's super name will be "Cutthroat Bitch."

[Rachel RSL]

Wow...SHOCKING. If only we had figured out who Savitar was weeks ago when he said "I am the future Flash." OH WAIT...

So can't Barry just pull an Eddie and kill himself if he really wants to save Iris? Or is there some timey-wimey reason that wouldn't work?

Edited May 3, 2017 by Rachel RSL

[Jediknight]

4 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

So can't Barry just pull an Eddie and kill himself if he really wants to save Iris? Or is there some timey-wimey reason that wouldn't work?

Well when Eddie did that he caused the singularity, so I'd imagine Barry doing it would cause something similar.

[bettername2come]

I think Grant Gustin played the reveal well, obvious though it was. I can't even be mad at how obvious it was because it's been telegraphed well with the "Future Flash" comments and the "don't trust anyone, not even me" comments from the future on Legends of Tomorrow. I'll take predictable over implausible. Honestly, I was kind of starting to suspect Cecile. She was just in the episode so much and at the scene when Caitlin started quoting, so I started to wonder.

Carlos Valdes's hair was distracting me all night. I enjoyed it. I like seeing Cisco continuing to be freaked out by his powers and the possibility of hurting Caitlin. They've always had really believable chemistry for me.

That's the most I've ever liked Anne Dudek. I'm fine with her sticking around. She and Tom Cavanagh have good chemistry. And the Narnia fan in me is deeply amused at her calling Caitlin "The White Witch." And I enjoyed Caitlin pulling a Frozone with her powers. God, I wish we could see the three of them fighting bad guys together in costume. So much wasted potential in her evil turn.

[tricknasty]

And the bad math continues...2017 + 4 = 2020.

[Primal Slayer]

ki  

But other then that I enjoyed the episode, Killer Frost was well...KILLER. Her ice slide was GREAT.

[xaxat]

The scar was OK, but I would prefer a goatee.

[cambridgeguy]

Wally really did speed off to Earth-3 to spend time with Jesse while Killer Frost and Savitar are still at large and Iris's date of death approaches?  That really doesn't make him look very good.

Also, we have never seen a Vibe shot kill someone with one hit so why is Cisco so concerned about it?  Especially since the entire reason Julian yanked off the neckalce is because KF has a healing factor?

[Terrafamilia]

A many blocks long ice slide which is only being held up by its base at the very beginning? Only slightly more unbelievable than speedsters being able to run around vertical surfaces even when they go around corners so they can't claim it's due to momentum.

[quarks]

And Flash finally makes it canon: Barry Allen officially IS the worst!

[KirkB]

I just want to give a shout out to those of you who figured out Savitar was Barry early on. I was honestly too distracted by his Megatron cosplay to put the pieces together, and after a while I kind of stopped caring.

[phoenics]

WOW.  Barry is Savitar. WHO would have guessed this completely unpredictable plot twist?!?!  WHO?!?!

I'm glad the reveal is over - we all guessed it was Barry.

What doesn't make sense is any version of Barry Allen that would want to kill Iris West - unless the only way that evil Barry could live is for Iris to die.  I think we're in some kind of weird time paradox where Savitar doesn't get created until the far off future after Iris dies which makes Barry turn evil (eventually) and thus Iris has to die so Savitar can live.

He did say that over and over again - that Iris has to die so he can live.

And that Future Flash line - yeah - we all called it a long time ago.

The KF effects were ... killer.

It's a shame Iris doesn't get much agency in a storyline supposedly about her.

And if they don't have Iris scared AF around current Barry right now when she finds out Savitar is HIM, then these writers are whack.  Iris better go watch Get Out before she falls into the sunken place.

Edited May 3, 2017 by phoenics

[Rachel RSL]

2 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Wally really did speed off to Earth-3 to spend time with Jesse while Killer Frost and Savitar are still at large and Iris's date of death approaches? 

Why didn't he just take Iris with him and leave her there so she's nowhere near the Corner of Doom on her death day? 

[Trini]

A version of Barry was like the first guess for Savitar, but I thought the reveal at the end was still well done. Still sucks that they delayed the reveal for so long; now they going to try and pack in the origin/explanation AND solution in just 3 episodes.

I'm hoping that the way to "defeat" Savitar is more brains than brawn.

Again, the writers showing that they can't handle an ensemble cast: Caitlin, Tracy, and Cecile got focus, but then there was minimal Iris, and Wally was absent.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay. Someone has to explain to me, like I'm 10, in BIG, EASY TO UNDERSTAND, and SLOW words, WHY in the BLUEDILLY FUCK ANY version of Barry would kill Iris. ?????????Because it's still Barry, right? And every Barry has loved Iris. This makes no bloody fucking sense to me, and I consider myself a fairly intelligent person.?

Just everything leading up to it is just pure and utter BULLSHIT. If it was BIZARRO BARRY, I could understand. Wait, no, I couldn't, because even BIZARRO loves LOIS.

What I did love:

Barry speaking like the scientist NERD that he is and geeking when he, Cisco and H.R. find and meet Tracy.❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

I don't care, but that Ice slide, and Barry chasing her, and us seeing his streak was ALL KINDS OF AWESOME!!!! Took me straight to Timm's Justice League when its Killer Frost traveled in just that manner! Killer Frost really should have the ice blue hair like in the toons.??❤️??❤️?❤️

ETA: @phoenics! JINX!!! We're both asking the same thing!

Edited May 3, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule
Cuz I can't insert emojis from my laptop!

[Cthulhudrew]

What are the odds that super genius physicist lady, doing her thesis at Central City University, wouldn't recognize the face of famed physicist-turned-wanted-criminal H. R. Wells?

Pretty high, evidently.

[Rachel RSL]

Is he still using his face-changing thingie?

[mj2000]

6 hours ago, johntfs said:

I wonder if Brand's super name will be "Cutthroat Bitch."

Affectionately known as "CB".

[Lantern7]

"Have you guys been busy?" "Yep. But how was Earth-3, Wally?" "Nice. Jesse says 'hi.' Weirdest thing . . . their Wally West is also Kid Flash, but he's white!"

The reveal was telegraphed. Aside from Thrawne, whom Caitlin would've recognized had he still looked like Wells-1, who else could it be but Future Flash? As opposed to "future, Flash." Kinda hoping Barritar runs in a blue suit, because DC did a similar story a few years ago.

Joe's plot was there, though it would've been hard to explain to Ceclie (I'm not close, am I?) about how his two sons are speedsters, and that there's a death sentence hanging over his daughter. On the bright side, she's good with the team destroying evidence to protect Caitlin. Had Savitar been revealed to be Singh, I would've bought that.

Julian? So gonna die. At least he bonded with Cisco.

[KirkB]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Okay. Someone has to explain to me, like I'm 10, in BIG, EASY TO UNDERSTAND, and SLOW words, WHY in the BLUEDILLY FUCK ANY version of Barry would kill Iris. Because it's still Barry, right? And every Barry has loved Iris. This makes no bloody fucking sense to me, and I consider myself a fairly intelligent person.

I'll try.

I THINK Savitar had to kill Iris, because in the past Iris dying was what pushed his friends away, leaving him alone and miserable and caused him to turn into Savitar.

In other words, he had to kill her to gain the power he only had because Iris died.

It still doesn't make sense, I'll grant you.

But it's basically a self fulfilling prophecy. He had to do it or else he simply wouldn't be.

I think.

[thuganomics85]

As soon as Caitlin starred copy Barry's speech word from word, I was 100% sure that Savitar was a Future Barry, instead of my normal 98.5% sure it was going to be him.  At least its over.  I honestly don't mind the idea that Savitar is Barry, the they dragged this reveal out way, way too long, so I'm just indifferent, instead of interested.  I don't even care what convoluted reason there will be for Savitar to kill Iris in the first place.  I'm sure it will make no sense.

So, like son, like father, Joe almost ruins his relationship with Cecile, because she says she loves him, he realizes he loves her too, but is afraid to expose her to his "baggage", so he dumps her like a wimp.  But then Killer Frost kidnaps her, so he comes around and just tells her the truth.  Whatever.  You deserve better, Cecile.

Cisco gets all vibe shy about using his powers against Caitlin, until Julian finally gives him a pep talk.  I didn't know what the hell was going on, there.  I don't think Cisco has ever came close to losing control of his powers, so it seemed random that he was suddenly worried now.

So, it's up to Cut-throat Bitch... I mean, Anne Dudek's character to create the device that captures Savitar!  Hope she sticks around, since I did get a kick out of her moments with H.R.  Plus, as mention last week, Team Flash really needs more women on its team.

I'm curious to see how Grant Gustin will play full-on evil going forward, but this season has been such a disappointment.  Hopefully, I can just power through and next season will be a fresh start.  Well... not too fresh of a start.  No more going back in time, Barry!!!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, KirkB said:

I'll try.

I THINK Savitar had to kill Iris, because in the past Iris dying was what pushed his friends away, leaving him alone and miserable and caused him to turn into Savitar.

In other words, he had to kill her to gain the power he only had because Iris died.

It still doesn't make sense, I'll grant you.

But it's basically a self fulfilling prophecy. He had to do it or else he simply wouldn't be.

I think.

Eh? Okay, now my head hurts. BUT, from what I know and what the show has 'told' and shown us, I think Barry would prefer he NOT be at all, since Iris was dead. Him wanting to be all powerful and a GOD because he killed Iris? Dude, you did it. If you hadn't, then, then, you'd be happy and with Iris! God, I just made my head explode by typing that out. 

These writers HACKS SUCK ASS and don't know what the FUCK they're doing.

1 minute ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, like son, like father, Joe almost ruins his relationship with Cecile, because she says she loves him, he realizes he loves her too, but is afraid to expose her to his "baggage", so he dumps her like a wimp.  But then Killer Frost kidnaps her, so he comes around and just tells her the truth.  Whatever.  You deserve better, Cecile.

Not really. He came back, apologized, told her he loved her too, and told her everything. So, not the same.

[Rachel RSL]

1 minute ago, KirkB said:

I THINK Savitar had to kill Iris, because in the past Iris dying was what pushed his friends away, leaving him alone and miserable and caused him to turn into Savitar.

This is the only plausible explanation I can think of but didn't Barry magically heal Future Team Flash last week? Did Emo Barry change his mind and turn super emo after 2017 Barry left?

This stupid show. (And yet I keep watching.)

[Trini]

8 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Barritar

hee! What about SaviBarry? SaviBar?

Edited May 3, 2017 by Trini

[Simba122504]

Oh, how so not shocking. I said either Barry or H.R. None of this storyline makes sense. 

[Katsullivan]

23 minutes ago, phoenics said:

What doesn't make sense is any version of Barry Allen that would want to kill Iris West

 

20 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Someone has to explain to me, like I'm 10, in BIG, EASY TO UNDERSTAND, and SLOW words, WHY in the BLUEDILLY FUCK ANY version of Barry would kill Iris.

Barry reasoned that bad guys can't kill his wife if he goes into the past and kills her first. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Katsullivan

[KirkB]

10 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

This is the only plausible explanation I can think of but didn't Barry magically heal Future Team Flash last week? Did Emo Barry change his mind and turn super emo after 2017 Barry left?

Savitar probably comes from an alternate timeline where either past Barry never made the trip or future Barry didn't listen.

Eh, here I am trying to make sense of a story line even the writers can't be bothered with. It is because it is.

Somebody raised a good point about taking Iris to Earth 3. Or even to Earth...whatever it is, and letting her hang out with Kara for a while. At least we know how Savitar will be beaten. Not with lady Deus Ex Machina (seriously, who introduces a character with all the answers in the last three episodes?) but with the fact we all know Barry's an idiot. It's proven once and for all, he IS his own worst enemy.

Edited May 3, 2017 by KirkB

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Somebody raised a good point about taking Iris to Earth 3. Or even to Earth...whatever it is, and letting her hang out with Kara for a while. At least we know how Savitar will be beaten. Not with lady Deus Ex Machina (seriously, who introduces a character with all the answers in the last three episodes?) but with the fact we all know Barry's an idiot. It's proven once and for all, he IS his own worst enemy.

But ONLY on THIS SHOW! All other iterations of Barry has him as a smart, scientific, intelligent guy/hero! Even in Flashpoint!! Kreisburg can just FUCK OFF AND DIE.?????

Edited May 3, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Trini]

2 minutes ago, KirkB said:

At least we know how Savitar will be beaten. Not with lady Deus Ex Machina (seriously, who introduces a character with all the answers in the last three episodes?) but with the fact we all know Barry's an idiot. It's proven once and for all, he IS his own worst enemy.

I NEED the solution to be preventing Savitar in the first place. It would be cheesy, but love being the answer I would accept if it means we never speak of this arc again.

[phoenics]

KirkB - but Savitar knows everything that Barry - up to this episode - remembers, so he's still from the same timeline that Emo Barry was from.  He had KF quoting Barry and saying everything he was going to say, so I think it's safe to assume that this Savitar was still our Barry up until this point.

I'm thinking he lost hope even after Barry came to the future - or maybe all of that was an act and he'd already gone psycho.  Or maybe he's a time remnant version of Barry up until this point?  And somehow he went off the rails?

It's basically a paradox - a loop - where there isn't a beginning.  Iris is killed by Savitar, which causes Barry to go evil, and Savitar is eventually born.  And Savitar must kill Iris so that Savitar can be born.  I have a headache.  I hate time paradoxes.

[KirkB]

4 minutes ago, Trini said:

I NEED the solution to be preventing Savitar in the first place. It would be cheesy, but love being the answer I would accept if it means we never speak of this arc again.

In theory, if they can keep Savitar from killing Iris it should mean Savitar wouldn't be created in the first place, and he wouldn't be in a position to kill her, which means they wouldn't need to save her because...crap, phoenics is right. It IS a paradox, and the more I try to figure them out the worse MY head hurts.

Edited May 3, 2017 by KirkB

[Bruinsfan]

35 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Wally really did speed off to Earth-3 to spend time with Jesse while Killer Frost and Savitar are still at large and Iris's date of death approaches?  That really doesn't make him look very good.

If there has ever been any action or conversation on the show that made Wally look good, I've missed it.

28 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Why didn't he just take Iris with him and leave her there so she's nowhere near the Corner of Doom on her death day? 

Do you know how much of a buzzkill it would be to take your sister with you on a hot date?

[RedVitC]

2 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Savitar probably comes from an alternate timeline where either past Barry never made the trip or future Barry didn't listen.

But if he's from an alternate timeline, he wouldn't know exactly what happens in this one, unless he gets updates or something. But you're probably right that there is no use trying to make sense of this storyline, because it really doesn't. 

I've seen this argument going around and it's kind of important: If Flashpoint gave Savitar the idea to escape from his prison, he cannot be from this timeline. He'd have to be from before Flashpoint. And before Flashpoint Iris was alive in 2024. So what even is going on.

I think I'm going to have to process this before I really get into my thoughts, I might even wait until after we get the explanation next week. I wish they'd just given us the reveal and the explanation or part of the axplanation in one episode (since AJK said that) 

Spoiler

Savitar's motives are going to be an ongoing mystery

[Cthulhudrew]

29 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Is he still using his face-changing thingie?

D'OH! I completely forgot about that! 

(i'll just sheepishly slink away now....)'

(but seriously, thank you for the reminder!)

[KirkB]

I think I have an idea of how this might work out.

If Lady Brand does come up with the speed (force) trap, Barry may decide to throw himself into it to keep himself from becoming Savitar, akin to Eddie killing himself to stop Reverse Flash. But being stuck in the speed force for so long made him more powerful and drove him insane, which actually turned him into Savitar.

So the very act of trying to stop him could actually create him.

Man, I think I need to go lie down now.

[tennisgurl]

And the true villain of the show was...BARRY! *Insert shocked gofer here* So now Barry has officially become his own worst enemy.

Yeah, I saw it coming, but at least it makes sense for it to be Barry. I would rather have a somewhat obvious twist than a twist I never saw coming that makes no damn sense.

Maybe Barry become evil in the future because no one liked his Megatron Cosplay?

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 minutes ago, phoenics said:

It's basically a paradox - a loop - where there isn't a beginning.  Iris is killed by Savitar, which causes Barry to go evil, and Savitar is eventually born.  And Savitar must kill Iris so that Savitar can be born.  I have a headache.  I hate time paradoxes.

 

12 minutes ago, KirkB said:

In theory, if they can keep Savitar from killing Iris it should mean Savitar wouldn't be created in the first place, and he wouldn't be in a position to kill her, which means they wouldn't need to save her because...crap, phoenics is right. It IS a paradox, and the more I try to figure them out the worse MY head hurts.

You see?! You SEE??!!!!?

11 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

But if he's from an alternate timeline, he wouldn't know exactly what happens in this one, unless he gets updates or something. But you're probably right that there is no use trying to make sense of this storyline, because it really doesn't. 

I've seen this argument going around and it's kind of important: If Flashpoint gave Savitar the idea to escape from his prison, he cannot be from this timeline. He'd have to be from before Flashpoint. And before Flashpoint Iris was alive in 2024. So what even is going on.

I think I'm going to have to process this before I really get into my thoughts, I might even wait until after we get the explanation next week. I wish they'd just given us the reveal and the explanation or part of the axplanation in one episode (since AJK said that) 

  Hide contents

Savitar's motives are going to be an ongoing mystery

Like I said above, Kreisburg can just FUCK OFF and DIE?????

Edited May 3, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[phoenics]

8 minutes ago, KirkB said:

I think I have an idea of how this might work out.

If Lady Brand does come up with the speed (force) trap, Barry may decide to throw himself into it to keep himself from becoming Savitar, akin to Eddie killing himself to stop Reverse Flash. But being stuck in the speed force for so long made him more powerful and drove him insane, which actually turned him into Savitar.

So the very act of trying to stop him could actually create him.

Man, I think I need to go lie down now.

Can someone fetch me my smelling salts?!?!

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, well the longer they dragged the reveal, the smaller the pool of suspects became until it was really only Barry in it, confirmed by Killer Frost in this episode. I went back and forth on Barry and Wally for the last few episodes, but of course it was Barry. I remember all of us last season thinking that they would never pass up an opportunity for an evil speedster to be Barry himself. We just thought it could have been Zoom. Turns out they were saving it for this season. I am happy that it makes sense, though. Well, besides the killing Iris part. I guess Future Barry turned insane enough to lose himself, but I swear if we don't have our Barry at least question why Iris, then I'll be a little fed up.

Yeah, yeah, the Cisco/Julian plot was a little eye rolling to me. Cisco goes back to pretty much being a dick. Ok, you're doing everything you can. Stop snapping at Julian and blaming him for your troubles. It might have been a dumb plan, but the alternative would be a dead Caitlin. And his worries are that....he'll kill her? What? Where did THAT come from? So he stands around twice and watches Barry get hit instead. So, you'd rather Barry get tossed around than to stop Killer Frost and just knock her out? Of course, he ends up doing it by the end, but the whole thing was just dumb.

On the plus side, Tracy was an interesting character. And this is the very first episode where I went "Hey, HR, you're not so bad." Well, sort of. He was fairly annoying during the emotional beats when he was acting like an idiot. Like I was yelling at Curtis on Arrow last week, "It's not the time to make funny quips! It's an inappropriate time, goddamnit! Shut up!". I see them planting seeds for HR/Tracy (if HR sticks around). I don't think I'd hate it. But I wonder if Savitar/Future Barry telling HR that he survives will mean that HR sacrifices himself to change the future. 

I don't really care for Cecile, so her and Joe's plot was not particularly intriguing for me. I honestly thought at one point that SHE'D be revealed as Savitar and then I'd have to throw my laptop at my TV. I wouldn't be surprised if she died trying to save Joe at some point. 

Yeah, Wally, you have time to go visit your girlfriend on Earth-3 when Iris' Doomday is coming up and Savitar/Killer Frost are on the loose. I know the actor seemed unavailable for whatever reason until his one scene, but it's just inconvenient timing on his end. 

[Artsda]

I'm so lost, Barry kills Iris. WTH.

[KirkB]

7 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I honestly thought at one point that SHE'D be revealed as Savitar and then I'd have to throw my laptop at my TV.

For one brief moment when Cecile and Joe were kissing I half expected to see a flash of blue lightning in her eyes or something, so you're not alone.

[phoenics]

5 minutes ago, KirkB said:

For one brief moment when Cecile and Joe were kissing I half expected to see a flash of blue lightning in her eyes or something, so you're not alone.

Yeah I too had wild thoughts of "maybe it's cecile!" before I went back to my Barry theory.

I would go dig up my post where I guessed it was Barry, to see if I made more sense about him killing Iris but meh...

Edited May 3, 2017 by phoenics

[ruby24]

So...it's a Barry time remnant gone nuts/rogue, and is only created because of Iris's death, which is why he has to kill her. That's probably it.

I'm more annoyed that literally EVERYONE predicted this at the beginning of the season and it turned out to be exactly that.

[RedVitC]

I thought I was done with my thoughts, but here'a small one: HR's, Focus, Iris!, and her reaction was hilarious. Still laughing a little about that.

[KirkB]

2 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

I thought I was done with my thoughts, but here'a small one: HR's, Focus, Iris!, and her reaction was hilarious. Still laughing a little about that.

I have to admit, that made me chuckle too. So did Iris' reaction.

Edited May 3, 2017 by KirkB

[tankgirl73]

ruby24 has it right, I believe. It's NOT future flash, like, post-2024, who went crazy and turned into Savitar later.

It happened after Iris' death but before Emo-flash. As explained last ep (and in Barry's eureka flashback moment tonight), flash and savitar had a big battle after her death where he created time remnants and savitar killed them all.. mostly.

Thus, one of them was left alive, and -- for reasons as yet unexplained -- HE went crazy and became Savitar.

So, Savitar saying he 'created himself' is true. Barry created the time remnant in order to defeat Savitar because Savitar had killed Iris. Savitar deliberately doesn't kill one of the time remnants, knowing that would become him. The time remnant becomes Savitar, and kills Iris in order to bring about the causation that makes Barry battle Savitar by creating time remnants... etc.

As to what caused this time remnant to go crazy... that's where the speculation should be happening now IMO.

[quarks]

Wait, wait! I think I figured it out! Maybe the constant stress of arriving at places supposedly in Central City that look exactly like places in Star City, National City, and various past and future places, combined with needing to run through warehouses almost every single week, just grew to be TOO MUCH and Barry was like, ok, even going evil has got to be better than this.

[phoenics]

13 minutes ago, tankgirl73 said:

ruby24 has it right, I believe. It's NOT future flash, like, post-2024, who went crazy and turned into Savitar later.

It happened after Iris' death but before Emo-flash. As explained last ep (and in Barry's eureka flashback moment tonight), flash and savitar had a big battle after her death where he created time remnants and savitar killed them all.. mostly.

Thus, one of them was left alive, and -- for reasons as yet unexplained -- HE went crazy and became Savitar.

So, Savitar saying he 'created himself' is true. Barry created the time remnant in order to defeat Savitar because Savitar had killed Iris. Savitar deliberately doesn't kill one of the time remnants, knowing that would become him. The time remnant becomes Savitar, and kills Iris in order to bring about the causation that makes Barry battle Savitar by creating time remnants... etc.

As to what caused this time remnant to go crazy... that's where the speculation should be happening now IMO.

Now this I can work with.

Barry saying that "power without love" would be what makes evil - basically that would be a time remnant because the remnant isn't Barry himself.  It's got all of the power of Barry, all of the bad memories of Barry, but it doesn't get any of the love that Barry gets - thus it' goes nuts and then realizes that in order to be created, it has to kill Iris so that Barry will create the time remnants - one of them eventually becoming Savitar.

THAT makes sense.

Almost like a Bizarro verson of Barry - just horrifically evil because all it is is power - no love in sight.

Edited May 3, 2017 by phoenics