S03.E03: Sunk Costs

[Blackie]

12 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

My heart was filled with joy over the scene of Gus, Mike

The only problem is that doing a prequel years after the original is that the actors are older and it definitely shows.  Gus more than Mike.

[SignGuy77]

6 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Anyone else think Ernie might be related to Fring?

Oh dear god, not another one ...

Though VG seemingly played with the fans' off-season obsession with this theory by framing Ernie's arrival at Kim's office in a way strikingly similar to Gus' arrival at Casa Tranquilo.

 

Still, it would be redefining the term "stretch" to find that Gus and Ernie were, in fact, in any way related.

9 minutes ago, Blackie said:

The only problem is that doing a prequel years after the original is that the actors are older and it definitely shows.  Gus more than Mike.

Didn't bother me one bit.

Gus and Mike's first meeting was epic, with just the right amount of irreverence. Mike holding up the "DON'T" note and asking "Care to elaborate?" was Mr. Ehrmantraut at his most bubbly, bon-vivant self. Those dancing eyes.

Tyrus and Victor on either side. Mike and Gus in between. Hector the common enemy. And somewhere far away on the other side of ABQ, a younger Walter White was writing "apply yourself" on a chemistry test for the very first time. Or so I am convinced.

[Eulipian 5k]

Hey Jimmy, there's no Cucumber Water at the ABQ jail!

[Evagirl]

1 hour ago, SignGuy77 said:

Oh dear god, not another one ...

Though VG seemingly played with the fans' off-season obsession with this theory by framing Ernie's arrival at Kim's office in a way strikingly similar to Gus' arrival at Casa Tranquilo.

 

Still, it would be redefining the term "stretch" to find that Gus and Ernie were, in fact, in any way related.

Didn't bother me one bit.

Gus and Mike's first meeting was epic, with just the right amount of irreverence. Mike holding up the "DON'T" note and asking "Care to elaborate?" was Mr. Ehrmantraut at his most bubbly, bon-vivant self. Those dancing eyes.

Tyrus and Victor on either side. Mike and Gus in between. Hector the common enemy. And somewhere far away on the other side of ABQ, a younger Walter White was writing "apply yourself" on a chemistry test for the very first time. Or so I am convinced.

The age thing doesn't bother me either.  I think because the writing is so good on BCS, it stands on its own.  Even folks who never watched BB can get into this show with no problem.  Fans of BB will have fun connecting the dots though.

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, SnarkAttack said:

Anyone else wonder why Chuck's house isn't more upscale for being a partner in a law firm?  

I kind of wondered the same thing, but I bet when he moved in they didn't have enough business...and once they started making serious money Chuck was too "sick" to move, and probably is able to hold onto the faint memory of his ex wife in that dark and dusty cave.

[nachomama]

If whatsisface is a rival of Gus', why does Gus not want Mike to take him out? Permission to tamper with another shipment but can't kill him. Does it take the heat off Gus? He can hide in plain sight better while others get caught?

[scenario]

2 hours ago, Blackie said:

The only problem is that doing a prequel years after the original is that the actors are older and it definitely shows.  Gus more than Mike.

To me that's only a problem with the older and younger actors. An actor who was in their mid 70's during BB and now they're in their 80's trying to play someone in their late 50's would look weird. It's even worse with a character like Jesse who was just out of H.S. in BB and would be an actor pushing 40 trying to play a 12 year old character, totally unbelievable. 

If the time frame was when character was in their mid thirties to mid fifties and the actor is in that range, I can easily suspend my disbelief. 

1 minute ago, nachomama said:

If whatsisface is a rival of Gus', why does Gus not want Mike to take him out? Permission to tamper with another shipment but can't kill him. Does it take the heat off Gus? He can hide in plain sight better while others get caught?

He's not ready yet to take over the territory. He want's to hurt his rival, not take them out yet. Take it over slowly and carefully. Sneakers don't rot away in a few months hanging on wires in a hot and dry climate. It was a few years before Gus took over the territory completely. 

[jww]

What I was wondering why was the A.D.A.  so Willy Loman-esque looking at Jimmy's Whooper liker a starving dog; you would think a senior A.D.A would be paid enough to buy his own fries and have a better suit.  Was that cocaine or meth in the shoe?  Isn't  Gus into Meth and Hector cocaine as they argued in BB? I doubt they would smuggle meth into the US.   In either case I suspect the powder would have blown away instead of straight down especially due to the turbulence and why would it fall out of the shoe when it did not fall out when Mike was tossing the shoe in the air?

[TVFan17]

1 hour ago, nachomama said:

If whatsisface is a rival of Gus', why does Gus not want Mike to take him out? Permission to tamper with another shipment but can't kill him. Does it take the heat off Gus? He can hide in plain sight better while others get caught?

 

1 hour ago, scenario said:

 

He's not ready yet to take over the territory. He want's to hurt his rival, not take them out yet. Take it over slowly and carefully. Sneakers don't rot away in a few months hanging on wires in a hot and dry climate. It was a few years before Gus took over the territory completely. 

Also... based on what we eventually learn of the history between Gus and Hector in Breaking Bad....

Spoiler

Didn't Hector kill Gus Fring's partner before the timeline of events in Better Call Saul began -- or am I totally getting confused about the whole sequence of events and when they took place?  He didn't kill him in between BCS and BB, correct?

...it's personal for Gus.  He wants to be the one to take out Hector -- he wants to do it himself, or at least have control over who does it, how it happens and when it happens, I suppose. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by TVFan17
added something to spoiler

[scenario]

2 minutes ago, jww said:

What I was wondering why was the A.D.A.  so Willy Loman-esque looking at Jimmy's Whooper liker a starving dog; you would think a senior A.D.A would be paid enough to buy his own fries and have a better suit.  Was that cocaine or meth in the shoe?  Isn't  Gus into Meth and Hector cocaine as they argued in BB? I doubt they would smuggle meth into the US.   In either case I suspect the powder would have blown away instead of straight down especially due to the turbulence and why would it fall out of the shoe when it did not fall out when Mike was tossing the shoe in the air?

The A.D.A. was eating chips he probably got from a vending machine, probably between cases. Jimmy brought the Whopper from outside.  The drugs were sealed in a plastic bag inside the shoe. The bullet burst the bag setting free the drugs. It doesn't matter which kind of drugs the dog's sniffed. They don't have a different bark for Meth vs cocaine. :)  The truck was very close to the border. Drug dogs noses are very sensitive. It would only take a grain or two to get stuck on the bumper for the dogs to smell it. I've put stuff on the bumper of an RV and forgotten it. 60 miles later it was still there. 

[tweinst]

  4 hours ago, Blackie said:

The only problem is that doing a prequel years after the original is that the actors are older and it definitely shows.  Gus more than Mike.

To me that's only a problem with the older and younger actors. An actor who was in their mid 70's during BB and now they're in their 80's trying to play someone in their late 50's would look weird. It's even worse with a character like Jesse who was just out of H.S. in BB and would be an actor pushing 40 trying to play a 12 year old character, totally unbelievable. 

If the time frame was when character was in their mid thirties to mid fifties and the actor is in that range, I can easily suspend my disbelief. 

  1 hour ago, nachomama said:

If whatsisface is a rival of Gus', why does Gus not want Mike to take him out? Permission to tamper with another shipment but can't kill him. Does it take the heat off Gus? He can hide in plain sight better while others get caught?

He's not ready yet to take over the territory. He want's to hurt his rival, not take them out yet. Take it over slowly and carefully. Sneakers don't rot away in a few months hanging on wires in a hot and dry climate. It was a few years before Gus took over the territory completely. 

Also, Hector is just the tip of the iceberg that is the Sinaloa Cartel. If Gus were to take him out, he'd reap the whirlwind.

[scenario]

2 minutes ago, tweinst said:

Also, Hector is just the tip of the iceberg that is the Sinaloa Cartel. If Gus were to take him out, he'd reap the whirlwind.

When the Cartel finds out that Hectors truck was stopped by the feds are they going to think, "Someone must have shot a shoe full of drugs hanging from a wire raining the drugs down onto the truck" or "Hectors getting sloppy?"  After a while Gus is going to look really good to the Cartel. Part of the prep. 

[Beadie]

Doesn't Ernie look a lot like Gus? I'm probably reading too much into it, but maybe there is a connection there.

[RealReality]

41 minutes ago, Beadie said:

Doesn't Ernie look a lot like Gus? I'm probably reading too much into it, but maybe there is a connection there.

No, besides the fact that both are black and wear glasses I don't think they look much alike at all.   But thats just me.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Quote

 think Chuck is extremely competent at his job, but ABA rules are pretty clear on securing client files.  Keeping them in your house with no electricity, because you can't stand batteries is probably not the best.  I mean, Jimmy was able to get in there and it didn't look that hard.  Now, is it a crime?  No.  But would it fuck with Chuck being able to practice law?  There might be some minor discipline. 

I'm not familiar with lawyer-ly things but if it were medical files that a doctor was keeping at his house where others could get access to them, that would def be a HIPPA violation and the doctor would be in big trouble.  What client would want their legal files unsecured? 

LOL I googled "sneakers hanging over power lines" and the drug reference came up in Urban Dictionary (as a marker for a place to buy drugs). There's even a Wikipedia entry. 

I am seriously waiting with antici....pation over Jimmy grilling Chuck in court. How in the world is Chuck going to go to court when he can't even go to the mailbox? He'll either have to show up in a suit made of space blanket with his aluminum foil hat on (hello, cray cray Chuck) or show up looking normal (and everybody will know he's a hustlah/faker). It would serve his pretentious a$$ right to end up self-destructing while trying to destroy Jimmy,

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, jww said:

What I was wondering why was the A.D.A.  so Willy Loman-esque looking at Jimmy's Whooper liker a starving dog; you would think a senior A.D.A would be paid enough to buy his own fries and have a better suit.  Was that cocaine or meth in the shoe?  Isn't  Gus into Meth and Hector cocaine as they argued in BB? I doubt they would smuggle meth into the US.   In either case I suspect the powder would have blown away instead of straight down especially due to the turbulence and why would it fall out of the shoe when it did not fall out when Mike was tossing the shoe in the air?

Is he a sr. ADA?  He made it sound like he had no power or pull and was stuck doing lower level cases.  Without the office conflicts of interest, Jimmy's case is pretty low level and seems like more of a family dispute.  

[DrSpaceman73]

While I really tire of the petty and terribly drawn out Jimmy-Chuck pretty feud, but if I am Jimmy, I take the chance in court if it comes to that and press Chuck hard on cross examination, emphasize his obviously unstable mental condition, pull the cover off his fraud of a "Electromagnetic sensitive" BS and do everything I can to destroy him as a witness. 

I know two others were there, but they just HEARD what was going on, they didn't actually see what happened at all.  THey were in the other room hiding.  I go through the whole thing, tell the whole story, sell it as a terribly mentally unstable person doing all this to frame his brother, which is what happened, and leave it to the jury.  I make him admit what he told them to get his "confession", which then means he is either lying when he said all that to get Jimmy's confession or he is truly as unstable as he claims and then he is not credible as a witness. 

Would it work?  I don't know, but I would not make it easy on Chuck at all.  And I would use his mental problems in whatever way I could against him.  Is that ethical?  Maybe not.  But is it valid?  Sure.  As much as Chuck complains about Jimmy's problems, Chuck is obviously a deeply disturbed person with a serious mental problem, not physical.  I would get everyone, especially the court, to stop catering to his every whim, call BS on his problems and at the very least make it as hard as humanly possible for him to even show up as a witness, drag it out, insist on him being in court as long as possible and make it as hard as possible for him to even testify. 

Chuck is such a petty asswipe.  And I have thought that from the beginning, even before this stuff with Jimmy.  His "sensitivity" problem is completely psychiatric and and total and complete power play by him to manipulate others as much as possible. 

But having said all that, I am still much more curious about the other part of the story with Gus.  I truly don't want to see this Jimmy-Chuch thing dragged on too much further, though I am sure it will last the season

[RealReality]

1 minute ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

I'm not familiar with lawyer-ly things but if it were medical files that a doctor was keeping at his house where others could get access to them, that would def be a HIPPA violation and the doctor would be in big trouble.  What client would want their legal files unsecured? 

LOL I googled "sneakers hanging over power lines" and the drug reference came up in Urban Dictionary (as a marker for a place to buy drugs). There's even a Wikipedia entry. 

I am seriously waiting with antici....pation over Jimmy grilling Chuck in court. How in the world is Chuck going to go to court when he can't even go to the mailbox? He'll either have to show up in a suit made of space blanket with his aluminum foil hat on (hello, cray cray Chuck) or show up looking normal (and everybody will know he's a hustlah/faker). It would serve his pretentious a$$ right to end up self-destructing while trying to destroy Jimmy,

Thats exactly what I assumed the shoes meant in the first scene, and I think of it every time I see a pair of shoes on a wire.  I wonder if I first heard the reference on BB.

Honestly, I think a trial is part of the reason Chuck was "kind enough" to suggest diversion.  He knows full well that if you put Jimmy on a stand, and him on a stand, people are going to want to find a way to forgive Jimmy or stick it to Chuck.  It confuses and infuriates Chuck, but he knows he is not as likable as Jimmy....although he may not know how much of a prick he can come off as.

3 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

While I really tire of the petty and terribly drawn out Jimmy-Chuck pretty feud, but if I am Jimmy, I take the chance in court if it comes to that and press Chuck hard on cross examination, emphasize his obviously unstable mental condition, pull the cover off his fraud of a "Electromagnetic sensitive" BS and do everything I can to destroy him as a witness. 

I know two others were there, but they just HEARD what was going on, they didn't actually see what happened at all.  THey were in the other room hiding.  I go through the whole thing, tell the whole story, sell it as a terribly mentally unstable person doing all this to frame his brother, which is what happened, and leave it to the jury.  I make him admit what he told them to get his "confession", which then means he is either lying when he said all that to get Jimmy's confession or he is truly as unstable as he claims and then he is not credible as a witness. 

Would it work?  I don't know, but I would not make it easy on Chuck at all.  And I would use his mental problems in whatever way I could against him.  Is that ethical?  Maybe not.  But is it valid?  Sure.  As much as Chuck complains about Jimmy's problems, Chuck is obviously a deeply disturbed person with a serious mental problem, not physical.  I would get everyone, especially the court, to stop catering to his every whim, call BS on his problems and at the very least make it as hard as humanly possible for him to even show up as a witness, drag it out, insist on him being in court as long as possible and make it as hard as possible for him to even testify. 

Chuck is such a petty asswipe.  And I have thought that from the beginning, even before this stuff with Jimmy.  His "sensitivity" problem is completely psychiatric and and total and complete power play by him to manipulate others as much as possible. 

But having said all that, I am still much more curious about the other part of the story with Gus.  I truly don't want to see this Jimmy-Chuch thing dragged on too much further, though I am sure it will last the season

I think it would work, only because Jimmy is so likable, and Chuck is so very unlikable.  I think a jury would be looking for any excuse to hand Jimmy a win and Chuck a defeat.

[scenario]

12 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Thats exactly what I assumed the shoes meant in the first scene, and I think of it every time I see a pair of shoes on a wire.  I wonder if I first heard the reference on BB.

Honestly, I think a trial is part of the reason Chuck was "kind enough" to suggest diversion.  He knows full well that if you put Jimmy on a stand, and him on a stand, people are going to want to find a way to forgive Jimmy or stick it to Chuck.  It confuses and infuriates Chuck, but he knows he is not as likable as Jimmy....although he may not know how much of a prick he can come off as.

I think it would work, only because Jimmy is so likable, and Chuck is so very unlikable.  I think a jury would be looking for any excuse to hand Jimmy a win and Chuck a defeat.

I can see Jimmy goading Chuck into a "You can't handle the truth!" kind of testimony on the stand. Chuck getting on his high horse and telling the jury that of course he manipulated Jimmy into getting into a fury and breaking into his house but it was for his own good.  

I can also see Jimmy setting Chuck up to do something to get Chuck to do something really insane and then having him committed. Then Howard arranges to have the charges dropped. 

1 hour ago, Beadie said:

Doesn't Ernie look a lot like Gus? I'm probably reading too much into it, but maybe there is a connection there.

Yeah, and maybe Saul hires Ernie to be his body guard. He gains some weight by the time BB come one but... :)

The only problem with both of these ideas is that the only thing in common between the three characters is that all the characters are performed by black men. They really don't look all that much like each other except superficially. 

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, Bannon said:

. . . Also, ever since Chuck's "chimpanzee with a machine gun" crack, I've thought of Chuck as being the worst kind of cruel person: the kind who won't even admit to himself that he is engaging in cruelty. How empty must your heard be to deny the humanity of your sibling?

and/or your employee. I wonder if Chuck would have not expended so much effort on thwarting Jimmy if he'd just evolved into a terrible boss. Ernesto gives us a glimpse of how that would have panned out.

[peeayebee]

Great episode. I loved the cold open where we had no idea what the deal was with the shoes hanging on the line. Then seeing Mike's plan play out was so satisfying. Terrific.

I enjoyed seeing Jimmy using a burger and fries to get on the good side of his lawyer friend, only to discover that someone else was going to handle the case. 

BTW, I read that Jonathan Banks couldn't get the shoes up onto the line, so the shot of it working was a combination of Banks and CGI.

[Quilt Fairy]

7 hours ago, Blackie said:

The only problem is that doing a prequel years after the original is that the actors are older and it definitely shows.  Gus more than Mike.

For some time, the one thing that throws me off in this show is that Jonathan Banks looks so much older than he did in BB. Bob Odenkirk has a face that they can easily change between the 20's of Slippin' Jimmy and the 30-40s of Jimmy/Saul/Gene. But Banks I just cannot buy.  The man looks rough.  They don't seem to make any effort to make him look a little younger (as he should be).

The intersection with the shoes was definitely in Mexico.  The truck was going through U.S. Customs which means it's coming into this country. 

[catrox14]

Wow. Incredible episode. Tense. Great pacing.

Brilliant plan by Mike.

[scenario]

38 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

For some time, the one thing that throws me off in this show is that Jonathan Banks looks so much older than he did in BB. Bob Odenkirk has a face that they can easily change between the 20's of Slippin' Jimmy and the 30-40s of Jimmy/Saul/Gene. But Banks I just cannot buy.  The man looks rough.  They don't seem to make any effort to make him look a little younger (as he should be).

The intersection with the shoes was definitely in Mexico.  The truck was going through U.S. Customs which means it's coming into this country. 

Jonathan Banks is 70. Bob Odenkirk is 54. It's a lot easier to make a 54 year old look younger.  I don't find it difficult to ignore ages until they get totally over the top. As MST3k once said, "another 35 year old freshman." 

[LittleIggy]

Just when I thought I couldn't loathe Chuck more, I find out I could . What a sanctimonious bastard. I loved Jimmy's "Here's what's going to happen..." He told Chuck he wasn't going to be their for his ungrateful butt anymore.

[scenario]

Unless I know someone personally and they have done something wrong to me or someone I care about, I usually don't hate or loathe anyone. With someone like Chuck as my boss, I'd be more like, how can I keep out of his way? Is he predictable? If I can't keep out of his way, what can I do not to be on his bad side? Chuck is easy. Don't get between him and his brother and he'll mostly ignore you other than maybe saying a few obnoxious things in your direction. 

People that I don't know who I don't like are people who scare me. Gus Fring doesn't scare me because I'm not a criminal. He will kill someone in a heartbeat but unless you're really unlucky, you won't be killed unless you are also a criminal who gets in his way. He seldom makes mistakes and there is rarely collateral damage. I'm also not afraid of Jimmy. He's dangerous if you threaten him or you are greedy. In BB, WW scared me more and more as the show went on because he became more and more unpredictable as his emotions started ruling him. I was more afraid of Jessie than WW until near the end because he made such poor decisions, he could have killed innocent bystanders by accident at any time. 

I actually like people who are good at what they do. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't be in favor of throwing all of the criminals in jail and locking them away for life, its just that criminals who are good at what they do and make rational decisions are usually less dangerous to innocent bystanders than people who are ruled by emotion. If I had a choice and I could lock up either Gus or Hector but not both, I'd chose Hector because I think that he'd be the one more likely to make a mistake in anger and kill innocent bystanders. Ideally,in the real world, I'd lock up both. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

. . . I enjoyed seeing Jimmy using a burger and fries to get on the good side of his lawyer friend, only to discover that someone else was going to handle the case. . . .

I interpreted Jimmy giving the burger with "too many trans fats" to the guy making a meal out of 2 packages of chips as Jimmy maintaining his position of being higher up the social ladder even while the frenemy was uttering jabs like "how far the mighty have fallen" and asking if he still had the company car.

 

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

. . . BTW, I read that Jonathan Banks couldn't get the shoes up onto the line, so the shot of it working was a combination of Banks and CGI.

Thank you! I had thought that might be the case after watching the PTV gif a couple of times (see here under "Mike," the 5th GIF down).  And it makes sense; the pizza that Bryan Cranston threw on the roof is basically a frisbee made of food, whereas the sneakers are not very aerodynamic. FWIW, I would have tried throwing the empty sneaker over so the other one would create the necessary drag to get them snagged by the laces on the line.

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I interpreted Jimmy giving the burger with "too many trans fats" to the guy making a meal out of 2 packages of chips as Jimmy maintaining his position of being higher up the social ladder even while the frenemy was uttering jabs like "how far the mighty have fallen" and asking if he still had the company car.

 

Thank you! I had thought that might be the case after watching the PTV gif a couple of times (see here under "Mike," the 5th GIF down).  And it makes sense; the pizza that Bryan Cranston threw on the roof is basically a frisbee made of food, whereas the sneakers are not very aerodynamic. FWIW, I would have tried throwing the empty sneaker over so the other one would create the necessary drag to get them snagged by the laces on the line.

I took the burger and fries to be a small and subtle "bribe" to get on the ADA's good side.  It was much like the plushies he gave to the court clerk. 

Jimmy doesn't seem to care much about social status.  He gave up a cushy job with the corporate apartment and German car to return the back of the nail salon and his two tone Esteem 

If Chuck is forced to testify in court against Jimmy, not only could Jimmy embarrases him by bringing up his craziness, he could find ways to terrorize him with electricity.

[DrSpaceman73]

The irony is what Jimmy is doing now, honest though I am sure not well paying law work for older people in need of wills, is perfectly legal, ethical, and he is good at it.  The people love him.  Loved all the cracks about Cracker Barrel.  And being folksy. 

And Chuck is basically ruining that life for Jimmy.  Or trying to do so.  But trying to do what Chuck thinks is right for Jimmy, he is likely inadvertently forcing him into a much worse career path. 

The more I watch what this show has evolved into though, the more I think the better spin off have centered around Mike rather than Jimmy.  I know its kind of half and half now, so that's almost what it is anyway, but its still titled and primarily focused on Jimmy/Saul.  But Mike so far has been the more interesting character and with more interesting storylines, in my opinion.  

And on top of it all, he does it all with only, what, probably one page total of actual verbal lines in each episode?  He is very efficient in his language and work. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by DrSpaceman73

[RealReality]

4 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The irony is what Jimmy is doing now, honest though I am sure not well paying law work for older people in need of wills, is perfectly legal, ethical, and he is good at it.  The people love him.  Loved all the cracks about Cracker Barrel.  And being folksy. 

And Chuck is basically ruining that life for Jimmy.  Or trying to do so.  But trying to do what Chuck thinks is right for Jimmy, he is likely inadvertently forcing him into a much worse career path. 

The more I watch what this show has evolved into though, the more I think the better spin off have centered around Mike rather than Jimmy.  I know its kind of half and half now, so that's almost what it is anyway, but its still titled and primarily focused on Jimmy/Saul.  But Mike so far has been the more interesting character and with more interesting storylines, in my opinion.  

And on top of it all, he does it all with only, what, probably one page total of actual verbal lines in each episode?  He is very efficient in his language and work. 

I don't think there is anything inadvertent about it.  I think Chuck is perfectly delighted to fuck up any chance Jimmy may have at leading an honest, respectable life in the same profession he is in.  That is a non starter.

Jimmy is only allowed to be happy if he is working in the mail room and being condesended to by chuck.

Edited April 26, 2017 by RealReality

[JudyObscure]

Ernesto is the winner in this, he deserves a job that will reward his patience and attention to detail. I hope his replacement can't tell a Fuji from a Red Delicious and brings Chuck nothing but Granny Smiths.

[DrSpaceman73]

5 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I don't think there is anything inadvertent about it.  I think Chuck is perfectly delighted to fuck up any chance Jimmy may have at leading an honest, respectable life in the same profession he is in.  That is a non starter.

Jimmy is only allowed to be happy if he is working in the mail room and being condesended to by chuck.

I agree we know that and we all see it.

But as much as I hate Chuck, he himself does not see it.  He honestly has himself convinced his convoluted plan is what is best for Jimmy.  And everyone, including society, since Chuck of course if the arbiter on his own of what is ethical and correct for all involved. 

But yes just the opposite is true.  His actions are really hurting both himself and Jimmy as well. 

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The irony is what Jimmy is doing now, honest though I am sure not well paying law work for older people in need of wills, is perfectly legal, ethical, and he is good at it.  The people love him.  Loved all the cracks about Cracker Barrel.  And being folksy. 

And Chuck is basically ruining that life for Jimmy.  Or trying to do so.  But trying to do what Chuck thinks is right for Jimmy, he is likely inadvertently forcing him into a much worse career path. 

The more I watch what this show has evolved into though, the more I think the better spin off have centered around Mike rather than Jimmy.  I know its kind of half and half now, so that's almost what it is anyway, but its still titled and primarily focused on Jimmy/Saul.  But Mike so far has been the more interesting character and with more interesting storylines, in my opinion.  

And on top of it all, he does it all with only, what, probably one page total of actual verbal lines in each episode?  He is very efficient in his language and work. 

Good point about Jimmy having a (more or less) honest practice, at this point.  I liked the judge's reaction when he said he was doing elder law, "A noble pursuit."  She seemed to respect him and to be hoping things work out for him.  It also seems like the ADA's respect him.  He and trans fat guy like to bust each other's chops, but the fact that he and all the local ADA's were conflicted out, suggests the DA thinks they would go too easy on him, which suggests they like and/or respect Jimmy as well.

Of course, from Breaking Bad, we know that Chuck was absolutely right about Jimmy.  He became a total scoundrel of a lawyer, and if we take his "Badger in the chow line" comment at face value, one who was not even above arranging the murder of witnesses, even when those witnesses were his own clients.  

But, how much of Chuck's being "right" was the result of a self-fulfilling prophecy?  If Chuck wasn't so sure Slippin' Jimmy with a law degree was a "chimp with a machine gun" and wasn't so set on stopping him from practicing, might Jimmy have turned out to be a very, different type of lawyer?  We will never know, for sure.  

I also like Mike's story a bit more than Jimmy's at this point.  It is probably because he gets to interact with a wider variety of interesting characters, at this point in the show. 

[nodorothyparker]

I don't know that it's possible to know if Jimmy would have ended up as Saul doing Saul things anyway had Chuck had not boxed him in.  Jimmy is of course an adult and responsible for the decisions he makes, and we've certainly seen that he's not above cutting corners, taking the easy route, or even putting on a minor con as a means to an end kind of thing.   It was mostly harmless or small potatoes stuff.   Had Chuck stopped with the season one betrayal of outwardly supporting him while behind the scenes kneecapping his efforts at a legitimate career at HHM (which was within his rights), Jimmy still could have had his respectable career in elder law and life with Kim and it would have still mostly been on him had he managed to screw that up and broken bad.   But pushing things to the point where Jimmy's backed into a corner staring down felony charges and possible disbarment and end of his livelihood?   It's still on Jimmy how he responds, but Chuck now shares a fair amount of blame too for the monster that results from his stated efforts to prevent that monster from being.

I liked Mike's story well enough this week but it follows a couple of weeks of sitting and mostly watching other people, sometimes in the dark.  That and the BB callbacks likely wouldn't have been enough for me.

[Captanne]

On the previous episode's thread there was a half-hearted defense of what Chuck has been doing to Jimmy -- saying, rightly, that Chuck is coming from a sense of doing what's right for the legal profession and that it's grey between Chuck and Jimmy when considering who is a villain and who isn't.

I like it like that -- grey areas that spark well-thought-out conversations with valid points on both sides.  

Personally, I think Chuck is batshit crazy and living in a TV dinner tray.  His inability to function in normal society -- with a "disease" we had clearly demonstrated to us as a mental problem (earlier episode, a doctor proved to Jimmy and Kim that it's all in Chuck's mind).  

Jimmy, for all his enjoyment of pulling a good con (illegal behaviour), is actually trying to better himself.  Imperfectly, to be sure, but trying never-the-less.

 

This episode changed any grey area for me.  Jimmy called it "Chuck's vendetta" and that is exactly what it is.  Chuck is severely mentally ill -- which, if I were Jimmy's attorney, would appear to be Chuck's greatest weakness.  That's where I would start poking.  Hard.  So it hurt.

[cmfran]

I was confused as to why Mike kept aiming at the 2 henchmen in between firing shots into the air. Killing them would have ruined the plan, so what was that about? It didn't seem like there was any danger of them noticing him.

[Bryce Lynch]

18 minutes ago, cmfran said:

I was confused as to why Mike kept aiming at the 2 henchmen in between firing shots into the air. Killing them would have ruined the plan, so what was that about? It didn't seem like there was any danger of them noticing him.

I thought he was just using the rifle scope, like a telescope, to keep an eye on them, despite that fact that he had binoculars and that using a rifle scope to spot targets, especially targets you don't want to kill,  is not really a good practice.   

It was probably done that way by the show runners to add more mystery and dramatic tension.  "Is he going to shoot them?  Wait! What is he doing?"

Edited April 26, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[DrSpaceman73]

11 minutes ago, cmfran said:

I was confused as to why Mike kept aiming at the 2 henchmen in between firing shots into the air. Killing them would have ruined the plan, so what was that about? It didn't seem like there was any danger of them noticing him.

I was confused by this as well at first

I don't think he was aiming at them, though that was my impression at first, as much as he was using the scope to track them from far away.  Plus on the off chance he was spotted by them, though unlikely, he wanted to be prepared to shoot.

The shots fired were just to make them think there was a random hunter in the area so they wouldn't be suspicious later when the one shot hit the tennis shoes with the drugs. 

That's how I saw it at least, in retrospect.

[qtpye]

13 hours ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

 

I am seriously waiting with antici....pation over Jimmy grilling Chuck in court. How in the world is Chuck going to go to court when he can't even go to the mailbox? He'll either have to show up in a suit made of space blanket with his aluminum foil hat on (hello, cray cray Chuck) or show up looking normal (and everybody will know he's a hustlah/faker). It would serve his pretentious a$$ right to end up self-destructing while trying to destroy Jimmy,

 

13 hours ago, RealReality said:

 

Honestly, I think a trial is part of the reason Chuck was "kind enough" to suggest diversion.  He knows full well that if you put Jimmy on a stand, and him on a stand, people are going to want to find a way to forgive Jimmy or stick it to Chuck.  It confuses and infuriates Chuck, but he knows he is not as likable as Jimmy....although he may not know how much of a prick he can come off as.

I think it would work, only because Jimmy is so likable, and Chuck is so very unlikable.  I think a jury would be looking for any excuse to hand Jimmy a win and Chuck a defeat.

So it has come down to brother vs. brother...lawyer vs. lawyer...the snob vs. slob.  I would love it if Jimmy would outmaneuver or out lawyer Chuck and beat him in court fair and square.

Chuck is under the arrogance "that he is protecting the pristine practice of law and society" by keeping Jimmy out of the profession.  He is also doing it for "Jimmy's own good".  The truth is he just does not think Jimmy is good enough and should stay in his place (the mailroom, being Chuck's personal lackey etc.).

Chuck does not have Jimmy's amazing charm (few people do), but before I knew he was a jerk, I thought he was a learned and affable gentleman (I even felt sorry for him that his sickness interrupted such a brilliant career).  He actually reminded me of some of my more endearing professors.  Chuck can come off likable and approachable, but his mental state might mess him up.  I would love to see Chuck's face if Jimmy beats him fair and square...his ego will not be able to handle that.

[luna1122]

Why was Kim showering at the gym? Did she fall asleep at the office, or is she living there or something? I feel like I missed something. But it cracked me up how she immediately rolled out and threw on her high heels even before coffee.

I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, but I did love this episode.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Why was Kim showering at the gym? Did she fall asleep at the office, or is she living there or something? I feel like I missed something. But it cracked me up how she immediately rolled out and threw on her high heels even before coffee.

I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, but I did love this episode.

I think she was working so hard on Mesa Verde, probably after falling behind from worrying about Jimmy's case and working on his geezers' wills, that she didn't have time to go home to sleep and shower, so she showered at the gym across the street instead.  

[SailorGirl]

16 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

 

Also... based on what we eventually learn of the history between Gus and Hector in Breaking Bad....

  Hide contents

Didn't Hector kill Gus Fring's partner before the timeline of events in Better Call Saul began -- or am I totally getting confused about the whole sequence of events and when they took place?  He didn't kill him in between BCS and BB, correct?

...it's personal for Gus.  He wants to be the one to take out Hector -- he wants to do it himself, or at least have control over who does it, how it happens and when it happens, I suppose. 

Yes, if nothing else, we know a couple of things about Gus -- he likes to play the long game and he has a big picture plan in mind. And if someone comes along to interfere with that plan, he steps in. Just as he did in BB when the twins went to kill Walt, and just as he did when Mike went after Hector. Its interesting how he is so careful to keep a low profile, only wanting to be known for LPH and not who and what he really is, but he allows NO ONE else to step in when his plan is at risk. He makes it very clear who is ultimately running the show. 

LP

Edited April 26, 2017 by SailorGirl

[Boilergal]

On 4/25/2017 at 10:32 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

I think the boy was way too old to be Brock circa 2003 (though Kaylee Ehrmentruat seems older than she should be as well).  I think Brock was 6 when Jesse met Andrea, so he would have probably been a baby or toddler.  

It could have been meant to evoke memories of Andrea and Brock.  Andrea would be an interesting BB character to bring in. A young, single Mom with a drug problem would make a good client for Saul Goodman, though I never got the idea that Saul knew her outside of her relationship to Jesse.  

It could have been Andrea with her brother - the one on the bike on the corner doing drug deals Thomas(?) in BB,  he was 11.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, cmfran said:

I was confused as to why Mike kept aiming at the 2 henchmen in between firing shots into the air. Killing them would have ruined the plan, so what was that about? It didn't seem like there was any danger of them noticing him.

I was a little confused by the whole scenario.  Admittedly, I am tiring a little bit of Mike's process.  I liked it at first when he was doing the Kettleman job, and figuring out Hector's truck situation.  Then the gas cap.  But I thought the writers went a little over the top with this and it didn't make sense to me.  Why bother with the overhead shoes in the first place, when placing some product on the ground would have been easier?  Why bother with making like hunters were around, when the men were inside the truck and rolling when the shoe shot was fired?  It all made Mike look like the cool, calculating crack shot that he is, and enabled some artsy shots, but it just seemed unnecessarily complicated. 

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, Boilergal said:

It could have been Andrea with her brother - the one on the bike on the corner doing drug deals Thomas(?) in BB,  he was 11.

True, but the clinic was in Mexico and Andrea and Tomas both spoke English very well and seemed very, well assimilated, so I didn't take them for 1st generation immigrants.  Also, I believe Dr. Goodman referred to the woman as the boy's mother, when talking about getting her permission for the lollipop.  

[SailorGirl]

9 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The irony is what Jimmy is doing now, honest though I am sure not well paying law work for older people in need of wills, is perfectly legal, ethical, and he is good at it.  The people love him.  Loved all the cracks about Cracker Barrel.  And being folksy. 

And I think he genuinely likes them and likes helping them too. When he gets mocked for working with seniors, he defends them.

That's what makes it all the more sad. That good person who genuinely wants to help a marginalized population that is often taken advantage of is destroyed by Chuck the Fuck. 

How many of us have said, on multiple occasions, something along the lines of "god, I didn't think I could hate Chuck any more!" And then . . . 

Edited April 26, 2017 by SailorGirl

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I was a little confused by the whole scenario.  Admittedly, I am tiring a little bit of Mike's process.  I liked it at first when he was doing the Kettleman job, and figuring out Hector's truck situation.  Then the gas cap.  But I thought the writers went a little over the top with this and it didn't make sense to me.  Why bother with the overhead shoes in the first place, when placing some product on the ground would have been easier?  Why bother with making like hunters were around, when the men were inside the truck and rolling when the shoe shot was fired?  It all made Mike look like the cool, calculating crack shot that he is, and enabled some artsy shots, but it just seemed unnecessarily complicated. 

He was going to be taking the sneaker shot when they were stopped at the Alto sign, so they would hear the shot.  They would be more likely to see a product on the ground, and unless he had a tremendous amount of it, he wouldn't be able to guarantee that the tires would run over the product.  Plus a different vehicle could have come along first.  The sneaker method allowed Mike to drop the drugs onto the truck with a wider margin for error.  Plus, it was COOL! :)

With all the "hunter" shots Mike fired into the air, I was afraid he was going to run out of ammo.  I believe he only took a single 20 round box of .308 from Lawson.  Of course, he could have bought more at any gun shop or Walmart.  

[LittleIggy]

Why would Jimmy entering his brother's home be felony breaking and entering? Okay, he barged in, but how was that a felony?

[scenario]

1 minute ago, LittleIggy said:

Why would Jimmy entering his brother's home be felony breaking and entering? Okay, he barged in, but how was that a felony?

The door was locked so he must have broken it down to get in. 

[LoneHaranguer]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

They would be more likely to see a product on the ground, and unless he had a tremendous amount of it, he wouldn't be able to guarantee that the tires would run over the product.

Between the spinning tires and road dirt, you're also going to lose most of it on the way to the border. And the dogs sniffing out something at the back of the truck is going to be taken more seriously by the authorities than for the tires; anybody can drive over something (not necessarily drugs) to cause a reaction by the dogs.

14 minutes ago, scenario said:

The door was locked so he must have broken it down to get in. 

The door doesn't have to be locked for it to be considered "breaking in"; just opening it would have been enough.