S06.E12: America First

[TVbitch]

RIP Quinn. I guess at least you avoided the ultimate torture which is being in a relationship with Carrie.

It seemed to hit Max harder than anyone else. I didn't realize they were so close. (?) 

Why is it a better idea for Carrie to take the PE out of an elevator stuck between floors and try to make a run for the parking garage?! Two Presidential vehicles were already blown up and the other guy told them the PE was alive, so she had to know secret service and other forces would be coming into the building to secure the PE. Those two snipers were not going to figure out her location and rappel down the elevator shaft before then.

[Ottis]

31 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

Options that endanger innocent people aren't options. 

Haha. You're kidding, right? The option he chose was to drive an armored SUV  at high speed through a police line (presumably at least some of those people were innocent) and beyond into who knows what kind of traffic or pedestrians. I would suggest that option endangered more innocent people than any of the others I suggested. So again, I think his death was flawed logically. That's why I struggle with what Peter did ... because it wasn't his only choice or even the best choice. And Carrie could have helped him with it.

[attica]

I was most worried when Saul was in the visiting room with Dar. Don't give him a writing implement, Saul!!! Haven't you learned your lesson about giving people sharpened pointed things in interview rooms?! Argh!

I wanted Carrie and Max to grief-shag.

Linus Roache looks 40 years younger than when he was in the baths. What a difference a beard makes (okay, and aging makeup, okay)!

During the assassination attempt, and McClendon kept asking about the whereabouts of 'the PE', it took me longer than I'm proud of to realize he meant 'President Elect' and not 'Pulmonary Embolism'. Sigh. Too many years of watching Lucy Knight die in ER, I guess.

[Bannon]

8 hours ago, Lemons said:

Plus the murder of the FBI agent who was investigating the troll building 

That development was the first indication to me this season that the writing on this show had become a dumpster fire again. No, folks, you can't have a high level FBI official make a cell phone call from the parking lot of a large building where a clandenstine disinformation campaign is taking place, then have the FBI official shot dead in his home a short time later, and not have the clandestine disiniformation campaign publicly exposed in about 3 days. Especially when the person the call was made to is going to be highly motivated to see the killers caught.

I can't remember a show where the writing  so wildly fluctuated between excellence and dreck, over several seasons, like this show has. Season 1 was terrific, as was season 2 , up until Carrie obtaining the thumbdrive with Brody's confession, confirming Carrie's allegations. Then, it was nosedive into utter idiocy for quite some time, until Brody left South America, and the show improved tremendously, through the seasons in Pakistan and Germany.This season turned out to be a nosedive again. Ugh. It looks like the President of the United States is going to be a central character in season 7. Double ugh. Note to television writers: It's really, really, hard to write credible highly serialized television drama  that features the President of the United States as a character that gets a lot of screen time, and, yes, I'm saying that Sorkin's "The West Wing" really wasn't very good.

I really doubt I'll be back to see it. The shark. It is jumped. Again.  

[teddysmom]

Quote

RIP Quinn. I guess at least you avoided the ultimate torture which is being in a relationship with Carrie.

Spoiler

Check out Friend's twitter feed. Couple odd tweets, that were deleted. Makes me wonder.....

[thesupremediva1]

Well, this was about as emotionally exhausting as the end of season 3.

Yet again, we have Carrie losing one of her guys in America's name in a most unfortunate matter, after the death has been foreshadowed all season. 

Those poor men who loved Carrie are doomed. She knows it,  but she can't save them.

This time it was even more exhausting, because Quinn wasn't burdened with Brody's ambiguity. Quinn was a good guy, through and through. I was almost relieved when he died because I knew his current physical state tortured him worse than anything else. 

Asking her not to put a star on wall for him - another Brody tie-in. I appreciated the moment at the end when she saw her picture in his pile of photos - I don't think she had any clue how deep his feelings went for her. Not ashamed to say I cried a bit with her. Quinn was special.

Don't you ever touch Saul, you jerks! Free Saul! I am not ok with that ending. Keane and her band of paranoid parasites will be back next season, right? We can't very well just leave this thread dangling. 90% of the cast is now dead or incarcerated. We're set up for a new hybrid of House of Cards mixed with Orange is the New Black. 

By the end of the ep, I felt like the writers were trying to show us what Hillz would have been like as Pres, but I can't imagine that was their intention. As sad as I am about Quinn, I'm invested in seeing where this is going. Based on Saul's prediction, I'm guessing manic Carrie comes back in some form next season. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I was most worried when Saul was in the visiting room with Dar. Don't give him a writing implement, Saul!!! Haven't you learned your lesson about giving people sharpened pointed things in interview rooms?! Argh!

I was surprised Saul was allowed to take those things in with him. I guess his professional status gave him special dispensation? Whatever, many people seem to think Dar wrote something down besides how to contact his boyfriend.

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

It seemed to hit Max harder than anyone else. I didn't realize they were so close. (?) 

I thought it was the opposite? Didn't Max say something to Carrie, while drunk, about "... they're making him out to be some kind of action hero or shit..." If I heard that right, I took that to mean that Max *didn't* like Peter. But admittedly I might have missed something there ... I had FF'd now and then because I was so aggravated by how slow the gang was to pick up on what was happening. I mean, when Carrie had the PE's COS on the phone after the blast and figured out the Delta guys may be assassins, didn't tell him and then said "Let me call you back." My god. 

[RedFiat]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Haha. You're kidding, right? The option he chose was to drive an armored SUV  at high speed through a police line (presumably at least some of those people were innocent) and beyond into who knows what kind of traffic or pedestrians. I would suggest that option endangered more innocent people than any of the others I suggested. So again, I think his death was flawed logically. That's why I struggle with what Peter did ... because it wasn't his only choice or even the best choice. And Carrie could have helped him with it.

No I'm not kidding. You can't have shots fired while we don't know who are the good guys and who are the bad.  It wouldn't surprise me if these black ops relish the idea of taking out innocents just to prove their point that the President isn't worth it. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I took Max's superhero comment to mean that he knew as well as Carrie did that Quinn did not want to be made into a hero or public figure (which is in line with his request to Carrie not to put a star up for him). 

Seeing Max and Carrie crying on the sofa was so sad. They were two of the few people who knew Quinn. Very few people knew he existed, let alone knew him as a person. They may be the only two people in the world who mourned for the real Quinn, the flawed human being, not the man who saved PEOTUS. 

[slowpoked]

36 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

  Hide contents

Check out Friend's twitter feed. Couple odd tweets, that were deleted. Makes me wonder.....

What were the odd tweets?

[teddysmom]

Quote

What were the odd tweets?

Spoiler

"Are you watching closely" and "see you soon"

[slowpoked]

22 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

No I'm not kidding. You can't have shots fired while we don't know who are the good guys and who are the bad.  It wouldn't surprise me if these black ops relish the idea of taking out innocents just to prove their point that the President isn't worth it. 

So because the whole thing with the PEOTUS assassination attempt moved really fast, I'm confused about one small detail. When McClendon asked his two guys to move in the hotel and "secure" the PEOTUS, are those military terms for "kill her"? I was thinking because the first assassination attempt failed, that McClendon may back away from the plan and make it look like they're trying to save the PEOTUS instead, "kidnap" her again and kill her the next time instead.

And is that entire police blockade all bad guys under McClendon?

I agree with those of you who said they created this monster of a new President. It's a nice setup for the new season. Although I really did wish the finale did more of a farewell for Quinn. But Homeland doesn't do farewells well. Even Brody's ended with a hanging, and not much of a mention afterwards.

[RedFiat]

20 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

So because the whole thing with the PEOTUS assassination attempt moved really fast, I'm confused about one small detail. When McClendon asked his two guys to move in the hotel and "secure" the PEOTUS, are those military terms for "kill her"?

I think it wasn't a term so much as a coded message since  Carrie told Keane in the elevator  'we're in the kill zone do you understand that?"  And gave her the option of staying or trying to make a run for it to survive.  

The police blockade was under McClendon's command. So even if they were innocent in terms of the operation, because they definitely would have taken Quinn out as you say thinking he's trying to kidnap and kill the President,  then there were also snipers on the roof,  who could have been black ops who would also take out PEOTUS and Carrie.  Quinn seemed to understand the situation when he saw those snipers.  So by being the driver and Carrie on the ground in the back shielding the PEOTUS,  Quinn was the only one who would lose his life since the Police would only shoot the driver.   There would be too much evidence of a mission gone dark if the shots were anywhere but at the driver.  

Edited April 10, 2017 by RedFiat

[nara]

2 hours ago, attica said:

I was most worried when Saul was in the visiting room with Dar. Don't give him a writing implement, Saul!!! Haven't you learned your lesson about giving people sharpened pointed things in interview rooms?! Argh!

I KNOW! I had the exact same reaction.

[Jaundiced Eye]

Okay. I know that a lot of people believed Quinn should have been killed off last season. I understand why people feel that way, but I am selfishly clinging to whatever slim hope exists that Quinn survived yet again. We saw him take a couple of bullets, we saw blood coming from his mouth, and we heard Carrie pronounce him dead. But we didn't see a body -- we only heard about a memorial taking place. Because I value Quinn higher than the rest of the cast combined, I am not going to give up hope until it is obvious that none exists.

[teddysmom]

Quote

Okay. I know that a lot of people believed Quinn should have been killed off last season. I understand why people feel that way, but I am selfishly clinging to whatever slim hope exists that Quinn survived yet again. We saw him take a couple of bullets, we saw blood coming from his mouth, and we heard Carrie pronounce him dead. But we didn't see a body -- we only heard about a memorial taking place. Because I value Quinn higher than the rest of the cast combined, I am not going to give up hope until it is obvious that none exists.

I'm clinging too. Also because Rupert tweeted a couple things then deleted that make me think something's up. 

[Mabel]

I cannot believe it!!! they killed off Peter Quinn. I am so done with this show. and to add insult to injury, his death was for nothing since the President has turned into some monster overnight.
Small consolation to see Dar rot in prison.

they should've killed Saul, or Carrie, for all I care. and make a show with Quinn (after serious rehab)

[Mabel]

15 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Bye, Rupert. We'll miss ya, buddy. Now go get your Emmy.

that'll be the only good thing about this season. Hope he does get it.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Mabel

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I'm clinging too. Also because Rupert tweeted a couple things then deleted that make me think something's up. 

I'd be okay with Quinn continuing to appear in flashbacks but in present day AFAIC he needs to be dead. They dragged out getting rid of Brody and I don't want to see a similar mistake made with Quinn. At this point they'd have to reconstruct him into some kind of cyborg after the sarin, the brain damage, and the mutiple bullet wounds. Or pull a Dallas and have Carrie wake up and realize the past year was only a dream.

[slowpoked]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I think it would be difficult to arrest O'Keefe just on suspicion of his involvement because he is a "journalist" even with her expanded powers under the Patriotic Act. She would need hard evidence against him.

I would think Dar would be none too happy to involve him in his testimony, no? I don't think his radio show is enough to get him arrested, but if Saul got arrested for having communications with core conspirators even though there's really no evidence yet of his actual involvement in the conspiracy, I would think it would be much easier to get O'Keefe.

26 minutes ago, Mabel said:

his death was for nothing since the President has turned into some monster overnight.

Is it really for nothing though? Like Dar bitterly learned, you reap what you sow. Here is a President who had a "softer" stance on foreign policy and security, so to speak, but Dar and his co-conspirators went to extreme measures to get their message across. Dar himself said he didn't mean for things to turn dark and for things to get out of control. In a way, the entire Intelligence Community, directly and indirectly, built this monster of a new President and they're going to get punished for it, rightly so, in some sense.

I'm excited for the new season. Assuming they will continue from here, what direction will they take Keane? Are they going to turn her into a full-on dictator?  Will she rebuild the Intelligence Agency in her own vision? How are foreign policies and security going to be affected by all these new developments?

[Mabel]

A nice interview - http://ew.com/tv/2017/04/10/homeland-rupert-friend-quinn-dead/

Answers a lot of questions RE Quinn's character - about kid's photo, backstory with Adal, Carrie, etc

Rupert does say he wished Quinn had received a better send-off

Edited April 11, 2017 by Mabel

[HOTNTX53]

4 hours ago, teddysmom said:

I'm clinging too. Also because Rupert tweeted a couple things then deleted that make me think something's up. 

What did he delete? I watched Rupert Friend's Facebook live interview 2 hrs. ago. One of the questions asked was if it was possible that Quinn was alive since no body was shown, nor his memorial service.

He said "No....Quinn is dead". For the second time in less than 24 hrs., I was gutted and my heart broken. He said that he doesn't have any immediate upcoming projects. He likes to wait for a while after he finishes a project.

I'm curious to see if he will appear in Flashbacks in the upcoming 7th season.

I was sad when Brody died, but not devastated, because I didn't feel too attached to his character. Quinn -- my God! The show runner's are gonna have to come up with one helluva plotline or new character to hold my interest for the final 2 seasons.

What about that new, young agent that was helping Saul out this season ?

Edited April 10, 2017 by HOTNTX53

[Lady Iris]

Quinnnnnnnn!!! Boy I'm gonna miss him! When he popped up at the elevator to Carrie and Keane, it felt very Jack Dawson-ish to me. Took me back to Jack popping up to Rose telling her to swim to the door which saved her. I knew Quinn was doomed. Didn't want it to be true. I didn't appreciate Carrie's rather emotionless reaction to his dying to save her. 

[LoveLeigh]

I am not sure how the writers manage to do this in some series: a character gets inside me and when he dies I get really depressed, as if the character was real. Quinn died and today Rupert Friend had a live show on facebook and he discussed Quinn's death. And I still feel bad. I also think having to wait so long with many of these shows for a new season does not help.

At the end of the episode, Keane looked like a traitor. It will be interesting to see where they take her. I doubt they will make her another Allison. But Keane will be out for revenge because of how they tried to destroy her son's memory.  

It did not like the final episode. It was dark, depressing, confusing, and sickening. Can any show these days have a happy ending? 

[jacksgirl]

Don't watch Game of Thrones, but hubby does. Somebody named Jon Snow was dead and then wasn't, so I hold out the slightest hope for Quinn. He's way too cute to die.

[Lemons]

11 hours ago, Ina123 said:

And the vehicle was bullet proof...or as bullet proof as it can be made. The windshield did finally bust, but it took a hell of a barrage.

Can't they make completely bullet proof windows?  No matter how close?

[bannana]

8 hours ago, RedFiat said:

I think it wasn't a term so much as a coded message since  Carrie told Keane in the elevator  'we're in the kill zone do you understand that?"  And gave her the option of staying or trying to make a run for it to survive.  

The police blockade was under McClendon's command. So even if they were innocent in terms of the operation, because they definitely would have taken Quinn out as you say thinking he's trying to kidnap and kill the President,  then there were also snipers on the roof,  who could have been black ops who would also take out PEOTUS and Carrie.  Quinn seemed to understand the situation when he saw those snipers.  So by being the driver and Carrie on the ground in the back shielding the PEOTUS,  Quinn was the only one who would lose his life since the Police would only shoot the driver.   There would be too much evidence of a mission gone dark if the shots were anywhere but at the driver.  

Yes, thank you for this, it made sense to me.  The only thing that bothered me was that Quinn could have ducked, once the windshield was about to be compromised and still just kept his foot on the gas and drove straight on through.  He might have survived then.  Because he didn't do that, I am assuming he calculated that most of the people with guns thought he was a kidnapper and potential assassin, so he knew he had to or would die.  Plus, he probably wanted to die, which is sad.

[piequinn35]

Fuck you show! Bye!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, Mabel said:

A nice interview - http://ew.com/tv/2017/04/10/homeland-rupert-friend-quinn-dead/

Answers a lot of questions RE Quinn's character - about kid's photo, backstory with Adal, Carrie, etc

Rupert does day he wished Quinn received a better send-off

At least we can finally put the "was Dar literally fucking Quinn?" question to rest now:

Quote

There’s a hint in one scene on the boat dock that Quinn and Dar Adal might have had some kind of sexual relationship in the past; is that a correct read on that?

I wouldn’t call it a “relationship.” Quinn was a minor [at the time], so there’s no doubt it was an act of abuse. There’s no “relationship.” But the idea is Quinn was preyed on not just by Dar but by cronies of Dar. Quinn was used as a pawn [in the same way that] in more traditional spycraft, young women are used as honey traps.

[ruby24]

The last half of the season was trying REALLY hard to change the story to match current events. They started out obviously wanting to do a capable, tough, Hillary-like POTUS and by the end they had to change her into an evil, Trump-like foreign agent. That's quite a road to travel. But I'm guessing Dar is right, and that she's secretly a Russian plant or something now. Very, very 24.

I wonder if Carrie will end up with Max by the series' end. As ridiculous as it might sound now, I honestly wouldn't mind, lol. He can be a stable, loving father to Frannie, and unlike the German guy last year, it's somebody who's been on the show forever, so there's a longtime connection to him for viewers. They ought to go for it- develop a romance next season (betting he'll replace Brody/Quinn as the primary male co-star anyway), so it can end with them riding off into the sunset by the end of Season 8.

[Mabel]

23 hours ago, Andromeda said:

As for Keane, to me it turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy. The trauma the anti-Keane people put her through would make any rational person look for conspiracies under every bush (or in every department). Thanks to Dar and his wicked cohorts, he gave her a healthy dose of PTSD, so now she's not acting rationally.

well, one would expect such a high-ranking official to be more persevering

[Andromeda]

55 minutes ago, Mabel said:

well, one would expect such a high-ranking official to be more persevering

Have you seen the current POTUS?

[Mabel]

now that I've had time to sort of process what has happened, feel like picking at the plot a bit.

What exactly was McClendon's plan? what I got from the episode was:

1. make the PE and some of her team leave the building under the pretext of a (fake, most likely) bomb threat 

2. bomb ONE of the cars of the escort (why one? what was the idea? were they targeting the PE specifically or just wanted some disruption?)

3. McClendon also has a back up plan - two deltas (with a hit order on PE, apparently?). When McClendon hears that PE is still alive he sends them in. what kind of spec ops guys are those? isn't ultimately PE their commander-in-chief in a way? how can they kill her in cold blood - (she is not some dictator in a third-world country)? or they know they are going completely black here? how exactly were they going to pin it all on Quinn as it was not even certain he would show up at the scene (his walking into the garage and being caught on camera was a little too convenient)?

How driving a little past the barricade saved the PE? The black ops guys could have still gotten to her. Don't really understand it.

am still not clear on how the show reconciles 'the hit on Quinn' / 'framing Quinn' scenarios. and why were they watching Carrie at the beginning of the season? they could have proceeded with their plan without surveillance on Carrie. that would've been a much safer bet.

what was the endgame of the plotters (bar Dar Adal, who was on the outside)? kill the PE and then what? or sequester her and refuse to release until she caves in (to office appointment demands or what?)

Also, some random complaints: why bring up another 'young protégé ' of Dar's?  We get it that he is a pedo. Or is that some spy play for next season? And if it is, will we get more of intelligence community vs POTUS next season? Didn't Gansa say that they are going overseas for the last two seasons? With Carrie back at the CIA? 

Why isn't O'Keefe in prison? He was caught on camera with Adal. Running the sock puppet factory. Saul got arrested for much less (for nothing, frankly).

having said that, kudos to the showrunners for keeping it so tightly under the wraps. Quinn's death came as a complete shock (and there I was thinking it was Saul who had just died in an explosion and they wouldn't kill two major characters in one episode).

Edited April 11, 2017 by Mabel

[Mabel]

45 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Have you seen the current POTUS?

wishful thinking, I know.

just goes to prove the life is often stranger than fiction.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Mabel

[Ina123]

4 hours ago, Mabel said:

How driving a little past the barricade saved the PE? The black ops guys could have still gotten to her. Don't really understand it.

At that point they couldn't get by with it. Did you see the crowd all taking vids with their cell phones? Remember mixed in with the treasonous Delta's were the real guys out to protect her. The bad guys would have been way less able to hide their real objective. All he needed was to get far enough away that there was a crowd of just ordinary people.

[AAEBoiler]

The whole "6 weeks later" really messed things up. So, I'm to believe that it took an entire 6 weeks before Carrie even had a home visit from Child Protective Services?!? It also took so long to clear Quinn's stuff out of the basement apartment? The whole time jumped just made the ending seem really weird. Wasn't too much of a fan of the finale.

Plus, last week's episode only clocked in around 46 minutes and the finale was only around 52 minutes? C'mon, this isn't network TV where you have to build in time for commercials. You have an hour-time block for a big cable show, use it!!!

[NorthstarATL]

So maybe next season Peter's son and Carrie's daughter meet cute at the F.B.I. and...oops, wrong show! I'm O.K. with Peter's demise, as he died doing what he was trained to do, and not the mess he was in at the beginning of the season. If he HAD to go, at least he went well, and of his own volition.

 Keane's been interesting to watch, as I THINK the writers were hoping for a Clinton win, and gave us a pant-suited Prez (without the baggage of a husband who's also been Prez, but term limited), but depicted a deranged mob and a Deep State conspiracy that mirrored ACTUAL events surrounding the current Officeholder, in effect offering a drag version of the Prez. I assume that's why they turned Keane dark, as her previous actions and statements would not seem to result in the Nixonian paranoid we see at the end. As for offering Carrie a job, it's not in character for the Keane we wind up with, but may simply be the only way to insert her into next season's  #NotMyHomeland, or whatever they'll call it.

 Glad to see Max survived. Sad to see the caseworker still at her job, and Carrie having to suck up to her. She was a part of the conspiracy.

Edited April 11, 2017 by NorthstarATL

[roughing it]

1 hour ago, AAEBoiler said:

It also took so long to clear Quinn's stuff out of the basement apartment?

Yes, it's a timeline that's personal to survivors.  Quinn wasn't just a tenant, obviously.  Cleaning out a loved one's personal things can go from immediate to several years later.

11 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I wonder if Carrie will end up with Max by the series' end.

I don't think Max is "alpha" enough for Carrie.  Max is more the temperament of Otto or the boyfriend in Germany that she had.  Nice, but not what floats her boat.

[AAEBoiler]

1 hour ago, roughing it said:

I don't think Max is "alpha" enough for Carrie.  Max is more the temperament of Otto or the boyfriend in Germany that she had.  Nice, but not what floats her boat.

Agreed. Max is 110% "friend zone".

[Lemons]

21 hours ago, Mabel said:

A nice interview - http://ew.com/tv/2017/04/10/homeland-rupert-friend-quinn-dead/

Answers a lot of questions RE Quinn's character - about kid's photo, backstory with Adal, Carrie, etc

Rupert does say he wished Quinn had received a better send-off

I didn't know he was British!

[Tony]

This episode's breakneck speed and 6 month flashforward just makes it seems like the producers forgot that this is the season finale and had to quickly wrap everything up

[Pallas]

The Stranger Song

It's true that all the men you knew were dealers
Who said they were through with dealing
Every time you gave them shelter
I know that kind of man, it's hard to hold the hand of anyone
Who is reaching for the sky just to surrender
Who is reaching for the sky just to surrender.

And then sweeping up the jokers that he left behind
You find he did not leave you very much, not even laughter
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild
He'll never need to deal another
He was just some Joseph looking for a manger
He was just some Joseph looking for a manger.

And then leaning on your window sill
He'll say one day you caused his will
To weaken with your love and warmth and shelter
And then taking from his wallet
An old schedule of trains, he'll say
I told you when I came I was a stranger.

But now another stranger seems
To want you to ignore his dreams
As though they were the burden of some other.
Oh, you've seen that man before
His golden arm dispatching cards
But now it's rusted from the elbows to the finger
And he wants to trade the game he plays for shelter
Yes, he wants to trade the game he knows for shelter.

Ah, you hate to watch another tired man
Lay down his hand like he was giving up the holy game of poker.
And while he talks his dreams to sleep you notice there's a highway
That is curling up like smoke above his shoulder
It's curling just like smoke above his shoulder.

You tell him to come in sit down
But something makes you turn around
The door is open you can't close your shelter
You try the handle of the road, it opens, do not be afraid
It's you my love, you who are the stranger;
It is you my love, you who are the stranger.

Well, I've been waiting, I was sure
We'd meet between the trains we're waiting for
I think it's time to board another.
Please understand, I never had a secret chart
To get me to the heart of this or any other matter.
Well, he talks like this you don't know what he's after
When he speaks like this you don't know what he's after.

Let's meet tomorrow if you choose
Upon the shore, beneath the bridge
That they are building on some endless river
Then he leaves the platform for the sleeping car that's warm
You realize, he's only advertising one more shelter
And it comes to you, he never was a stranger
And you say okay, the bridge, or someplace, later.

And then sweeping up the jokers that he left behind
You find he did not leave you very much, not even laughter
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild
He'll never need to deal another
He was just some Joseph looking for a manger.
He was just some Joseph looking for a manger.

And then leaning on your window sill
He'll say one day you caused his will
To weaken with your love and warmth and shelter
And then taking from his wallet
An old schedule of trains, he'll say
I told you when I came I was a stranger.
I told you when I came I was a stranger.
I told you when I came I was a stranger.
I told you when I came I was a stranger.

--Leonard Cohen

[scrb]

It's really hard to get into the details of this show when the alternate reality of the US that it presents is so unrecognizable.

US soldiers not only try to blow up the presidential motorcade, they go in for room by room action and execute a Secret Service agent in the process.  Oh and in what world does some general conveniently come in supposedly to supplement Secret Service but run an assasination operation?

Ok there could be crazy generals but soldiers don't go blindly following orders which go strictly against the service oaths they take, which I'm pretty sure doesn't include killing the commander in chief.

Yeah Keane wasn't sworn in yet but they wouldn't be waiting for inauguration.  The previous admin would start arresting people and they wouldn't be in some military prison where they're out of site.

This would be he biggest show trial ever and you can bet Dar, McClendon and O'Keffe would be paraded in front of congressional committees as well as incessant coverage about their lives until they have televised coverage of the trial.

It would be all about preserving democracy and punishing those who tried to deny the will of the people.  Oh and there would be purges everywhere.  Even those who didn't know about the conspiracy would be arrested or at least locked up because they should have known or they allowed the conspiracy to fester under their noses.

They try to make Keane the heavy while Carrie is going to wrest democracy back, as suggested by that shot of her looking at the Capitol in the distance.  In the real world,it would be congressional buffoons trying to exploit this assasination attempt, which caused a lot of collateral damage.

[scrb]

On 4/11/2017 at 5:16 PM, roughing it said:

Yes, it's a timeline that's personal to survivors.  Quinn wasn't just a tenant, obviously.  Cleaning out a loved one's personal things can go from immediate to several years later.

I don't think Max is "alpha" enough for Carrie.  Max is more the temperament of Otto or the boyfriend in Germany that she had.  Nice, but not what floats her boat.

So the two great loves of Carrie Mathewson are dead -- well maybe  two and a half counting that Pakistani kid.

Maybe she'd do better going back to the lifestyle they suggested in the pilot episode, but Franny is going to cramp her style.

No this isn't mocking or passing judgement on her character.

It's more a comment on the ridiculous characterization of this show's heroine, as the showrunners kept rebooting the show.  We still have the quivering lower lip and chin.  That's the constant with this character but little of anything else.

[roughing it]

15 minutes ago, scrb said:

We still have the quivering lower lip and chin.  That's the constant with this character but little of anything else.

The statement below was taken from the trivia section of Little Women in IMDB.com.  This was Claire's debut role.  The quivering chin is her go-to effect, and something Claire's mother is quite proud of.

Quote

In the scene in which Beth visits the Hummels, Claire Danes (Beth) was on the verge of crying as she was holding the wailing baby. In the film, you can see her bottom lip quivering. When the director Gillian Armstrong yelled "cut," Danes' mother remarked, "Well, that was great for the picture."

[drekka]

We know now that Dar really tried to help Quinn when he had him brought to the cabin under Astrid's care. O'Keefe & crew were working on Quinn's profile as Keane's potential assassin since a few months ago, why they wanted to kill him at the cabin? Because if they did kill Quinn, the whole "Toxic Soldier" thing would be useless... Any thoughts?

[drekka]

Also, Quinn wanted to die. As he came out of the hotel's garage, he saw the perfect way out by heading towards the shooters. If he didn't wanted to die, he would've dunk while stepping on the gas. They would still shoot the car but he would've escaped alive. 

That said, I really lament Quinn's departure from the show. What's wrong with he and Carrie finally settled together for once and for all? There are so many scenarios of how this could've worked out... He proved to be right about the ongoing conspiracy and redeemed himself by saving the P.E.'s life. He could be a good fit for Carrie and Franny. He was a righteous and loyal, extremely courageous and despite all the hurt and suffering, still kind. He understood everything about Carrie and still loved her. And she loved him too, in her own way. 

Besides, what is so wrong about Carrie that she can't get a break?? I see people here saturated by her face expressions but the show is about her. She is Homeland. 

Above all, she is an emotional and very sensitive person who hides behind an armour. Being bipolar, with or without meds, is a big deal not to mention the shitload of stress she is always dealing with. She is unique; a patriot that has done impossibly difficult things for this country. Shock treatment included! She deserves a brake not only from her critics but from the writers too. What is getting tiresome, is to see this character being emotionally crushed over and over again. 

[RedBaron]

Okay, call me crazy but I think Quinn will be back.  The whole death and aftermath seemed weird and cold in the way it was filmed.  Maybe it's just wishful thinking but I thought the person Dar wanted Saul to talk to the university was going to turn out to be Quinn and it was just better for all involved to let everyone else believe he was dead. 

Having said all that, it would also be a cheap trick for the show if he isn't really dead.

Edited April 12, 2017 by RedBaron

[piequinn35]

Yes he will be back as a flashback or hallucination of Carrie like the one with Brody, fuck this show.