S05.E18: Disbanded

[GHScorpiosRule]

First, I don't know how y'all can watch live AND post at the same time! ? Like, don't you run the risk of missing something? Unless you're also recording, rewind and go back?

Ahem.

STFU Curtis!?? No, Oliver doesn't have to give any of you noobs an explanation if he wants to disband, and you sure as FUCK aren't "entitled" to one, either. That doesn't mean you can't go on getting your ass beat/handed to you fighting crime if you want to keep doing it. But Oliver isn't obligated to do jack shit at this point.

Sad/defeated/beaten Oliver was hard to see, but Stephen did a great job, and I agree with everyone about how great it was to see him emoting again. His defeatist demeanor (ooohhhh, alliteration!?) reminded me of Bruce/Bats from "I Am the Night"-B:TAS. And this time it's a compliment and not my usual bitching about "ripping off," and it worked for me.☺️

As awesome and FUCKING FANTABULOUS it was to have those scenes with Diggle and Oliver, which demonstrated their history and love for each other (having one with just him and Felicity or even all three would also have been nice), my ?at the end(???) of Anatoly and Oliver's friendship. I hope and want these two to make up! Because I SO ADORE Anatoly, and he and Oliver have been through and survived so much together.

I hope Felicity's pragmatism about how Oliver brought in the Bratva to take care of Chase won't lead to going down a road she won't be able to come back from.

But the pause by Oliver, when he came back to his senses and said the one thing Chase didn't plan for...and turning his head to Felicity and said, "YOU," just gave me such a visceral thrill and giddiness I couldn't contain. I'm sure I had a goofy, silly, wide grin on my face as it unfolded. ???? The last time I felt that way was when Clark told Chloe that she should consider him her own personal bomb squad. The two situations aren't even close to the same thing, but the emotions that ran through me are. I know @BkWurm1 knows EXACTLY what I mean.???????????

There's  more, but I can feel the drugs taking effect, but I'll leave it on this note: Why the FUCK did Chase get federal witness protection/program/whatever? Just because his schedule was hacked and leaked????? Last I checked, he's just a local DA, and not some federal prosecutor or important witness in a murder case. Or did I miss something??

Edited March 30, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule
Because punctuation is important!!

[TwistedandBored]

It was an okay episode. It got everything in the right place. 

I love how focused Diggle was on Oliver but at the same time, he really should have known something was up with Felicity too. 

I just loved everything Felicity and Helix in this episode. I did think it was weird how they did not have Curtis and Felicity wearing a mask in their heist though. Like I know MG does not want Felicity in a mask but this is one time he should have allowed it. 

 

Next episode looks great though. I can't wait. 

[Xenith22]

1 hour ago, TwistedandBored said:

 I did think it was weird how they did not have Curtis and Felicity wearing a mask in their heist though. Like I know MG does not want Felicity in a mask but this is one time he should have allowed it.

Curtis/Felicity probably talked to Kara during the crossover and found out taking off your glasses and changing your hairstyle is a far more effective method of protecting your identity than wearing a mask.

On a different but related note it almost makes you wonder if writers/directors of "Doomworld" didn't have Felicity wear a mask just to screw with MG?

On a different but unrelated note...Chase killing the witsec agents just because one of their phones buzzed?  Really?  That seemed a little absurd unless he actually has psychic powers which would actually explain a lot about his plot really.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Xenith22

[SmallScreenDiva]

46 minutes ago, Xenith22 said:

On a different but related note it almost makes you wonder if writers/directors of "Doomworld" didn't have Felicity wear a mask just to screw with MG?

Guggenheim is one of the show runners of LOT. Sounds from the interview released after the show that this was his way of giving FS fans a look at Felicity in a mask without really giving her one.

[bijoux]

4 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

After what Chase did to Oliver, I find it really difficult to believe Diggle would be so up in arms about letting Bratva kill him. I know the show needed an excuse to keep Chase alive until the finale, but come on.

This delay I'm fine with. Because Oliver jumping recklessly in bed with Bratva would have resulted in a new drug epidemic. Maybe they'd have killed Chase, but it would have created a bigger problem. I know Chase has killed a shitload of people, but drugs can mow down a whole lot more. Something like Chase's dear old dad did.

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

What did Felicity find out at Helix? We're we totally off on that?

The fact that Chase has a scrambler. I think that was it.

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

"You and me, we're never going to be done!"

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Well, shit.  Dean Winchester and Felicity need to go pie scavenging together.

They would have so much fun!!

You were honestly the first person I though of when I saw that scene. :)

2 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

I've been mad at Anatoly since last episode when he said Oliver liked killing. Shut up, Anatoly. 

I know Anatoly gets a lot of love from Arrow fans, and he was a good friend to Oliver once, but dude's head of the Russian mob. I guarantee you he's done worse things than Oliver ever has, just possibly not with his own two hands. 

I for one love Anatoly, but the only thing I'm blaming Oliver for is getting Bratva involved here without thinking what they'll ask for, certainly not for "betraying" Anatoly. David Nykl is terrific, and Anatoly's a wonderful sarcastic bastard, who brings a nice energy to the show (Being always right makes life boring. Hee.), but if he walks like a criminal and talks like a criminal, I'm not really surprised he actually IS a criminal.

1 hour ago, Xenith22 said:

Curtis/Felicity probably talked to Kara during the crossover and found out taking off your glasses and changing your hairstyle is a far more effective method of protecting your identity than wearing a mask.

Okay, I was bothered by this despite of Felicity looking gorgeous in the field, because I doubt SC forgot her face after her very public role as Palmer Tech's VP and then CEO, and also the coverage of her relationship with Oliver, the shooting, and then the deal with Cupid last year. But this makes as much sense as anything at this point.

[Mellowyellow]

It wasn't brilliant but it was adequate.

I cringed when he hugged Pantry Moth but that break up was cold and just really funny! There was definitely no "Don't ask me to say that I don't love you" there.  Looked like he just dismissed her after the speech! 

LOVED all the Felicity parts  (ok I always love her but there's something about her plotting to get Chase and free pie at the same time that made me love her even more). I'm hoping Helix isn't too bad. I loved seeing her chill out at their headquarters, hacking dubious things. I really like seeing her have her own thing outside the lair. 

Oliver seemed to get over whatever spiral he was on awfully quickly. 

Loved Felicity conducting a heist with perfectly styled magical hair.  

[LeighAn]

What you weren't taken with "I know we  left things unresolved but we can't be together my apologies if I was being presumptuous" ....so much passion and emotion.

Edited March 30, 2017 by LeighAn

[Simba122504]

I want Chase dead but I'm going to miss him when he's gone because he reminds me of S1 & S2 villains.  Malcolm, Ivo, Deathstroke and 'em.  

[bijoux]

The writer have, unintentionally I believe, painted Thea like a really uncaring sister at times this season. Her response to her brother's brutal physical and mental torture over the course of a few days is, I'll give him a ring when it's convenient. Really? And that's after he's been missing for almost a week. I know this part is because of Willah's limited appearances, but it's not that hard to come up with something better. Like, she was trapped in a zone with a natural disaster and they couldn't contact her, but now she's on her way back. Plus, it only reminded me of the season premiere with Oliver's kidnapping with Thea unwilling to suit up and then when she finally did, it was to stand around.

I don't think it's supposed to paint this picture of Thea, but it once again highlights how lazy the writing team can't be. Thea can't show up to rescue Oliver because we need him to needlessly kill a goon? She can't be bothered. Oliver's been missing for a really long time and he's suffered major physical and emotional trauma? She can't be bothered. Come up with better, sensical reasoning for your characters' actions is what I'm saying.

[finnaire]

Just watched.

Poor Oliver, two break ups in one episode. First, with the Not!Shady Susan he finally gets to dump a girlfriend. And he was totally, “It's not you, it's me.” Thankfully, she agreed and left. This may be the first time I've really liked her. But, she can still go. She is gone, right? Second, with his brother from another Bratva. Anatoly and Oliver, the saddest breakup this show has ever seen. Anatoly with the, “Why did you leave me, look what I’ve become without you!” And Oliver all, “I thought you would be better off without me. I can’t even look at you any more!” And there were practically tears. And, you could tell they really, really wanted to hug. /sigh. If they had just understood that they needed each other we wouldn’t have been left with a bromance for the ages in ruins.

On a happier note, at least Oliver didn’t pick up that knife and gut Chase. Or kill himself. He was looking so sad and dejected I was a little worried about that. But, then I saw that he’d refocused his sadness and disillusionment into packing and organizing and I knew then he was a survivor.

This is the kind of episode that I like. A lot of characters expressing a range of emotions, a nice balance and use of characters, good integration of storylines, plenty of action, plots weren't contrived and people used their brains. Mostly.  Some (cough)Oliver(cough) may have been guided more by emotion than actual logic but I wasn’t frustrated that anyone was acting like an idiot. And, what do you know, Curtis hacked the security into the Arrow lair. Continuity! And it was kind of precious that Oliver wondered how he got in.

This may be the first time on the show that Oliver (or anybody?) has directly referenced his PTSD. Glad that he recognizes he suffers from it. Even when he doesn’t think his current actions are actually a product of it. When they so obviously are.  He’s really lucky to have Diggle to talk him down. And that was wonderful acting by both DR and SA in that apartment scene.

Still on the fence as to who is behind Helix. I’m hoping it isn’t Chase. That’s just a little to “big” bad for me to think he’s a Ninja Hacker DA Psycho. AND a whistler. Driving off into the moonlight. Going home to see crazy eyes mom to plot his next revenge? I’m in.

[LeighAn]

16 minutes ago, finnaire said:

Second, with his brother from another Bratva. Anatoly and Oliver, the saddest breakup this show has ever seen. Anatoly with the, “Why did you leave me, look what I’ve become without you!” And Oliver all, “I thought you would be better off without me. I can’t even look at you any more!” And there were practically tears. And, you could tell they really, really wanted to hug. /sigh. If they had just understood that they needed each other we wouldn’t have been left with a bromance for the ages in the ruins

Low key thought this but didn't want to say incase I get kicked out of the Olicity fandom haha. Saddest breakup  :'( 

Now all they are left with is memories of the times they tortured and killed people and then got tattoos together.

Edited March 30, 2017 by LeighAn

[thuganomics85]

Glad to see the show remembers that David Ramsey is an awesome actor and Diggle really needs to be put front and center more often.  All of Diggle's scenes with both Oliver and Felicity were great.  As much as I enjoy the majority of the cast, the chemistry and interactions between Ramsey, Stephen Amell, and Emily Bett Rickards, really are something special, and I don't think can ever be beat.

Anyway, it was frustrating watching Oliver defeated and mopey, but at least last week's episode was able to sell that he was truly broken down to this point, plus Stephen Amell made it work, since he's finally back to caring again.  Glad that Diggle and the rest were able to talk him back, even if he still isn't ready to put the hood back on yet.  But I'm curious to see how the team will function, until then.  Will he take on more of an advisory role?  Only question I don't have is who will be in charge in the field, because that is so Diggle.  The Geek Squad better not even try going over his head.

So far, Helix seems to be a pretty big help with Felicity and she is even bonding with Kacey Rohl's character.  Still waiting for the other shoe to drop.  Mainly because I will never, ever trust a Kacey Rohl character....

Did not predict that everything was going to end with Anatoly possibly becoming a future adversary of Oliver's.  I really can't see a way for these two to work it out, now.  Sad, but it was probably only a matter of time.  I love Anatoly and his leveled head, but at the end of the day, he is Bratva first, and will do whatever it takes and cross any line to benefit themselves.  And that's going to involve plenty of things that are simply against Oliver's code.  Maybe there will be a surprise, but I can't see this not ending with Oliver having to take him down.

Surprised they actually successfully exposed Chase, and now he's just unleashed into the world, now.  This should be scary!  Josh Segarra is having a ball!

Solid episode to end on a break.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I liked the episode mostly because Dig was in charge and that was pretty great to watch. Oliver was a mess but I expected it. It needed more Felicity being involved in what was going on with the team because her absence felt weird but I get she needed to be doing her own thing.

I don't get the reason for the newbies' existence. There's no "new Diggle and no new Felicity", just new interchangeable masks that have no real purpose. At least Curtis can create tech, new BC and wild puppy are a waste of screen time. Also the actors are soooo bad.

Chase is amazing. I love him. Also I think he knew Felicity was going to find evidence on him? Because when the guy got a text he got ready to kill him immediately, but who knows. He was the one to lead Felicity towards Helix when he was defending Dig and taking his mask off outside was pretty stupid so it would make sense if it was a set up. And yes, I know Oliver keeps taking his mask off everywhere but also he isn't particularly bright, Chase showed to be.

[ladylaw99]

Three ep's in a row, could Arrow be on a roll. I hope it continues.

This is the Arrow that I grew to love. The characters interactions are so important and tonight it reminded  me why I love OTA. I missed the Diggle we got tonight, he should never be in the background or babysitting  characters I could care less about. The scenes between  Oliver  and Diggle were wonderful and it has been far too long since we had one. They are brothers until the end.

This friendship also for me makes it very clear that the noobs are not going to work for me.  There is no bond with the new kids, I feel nothing when they interact except resentment. The scene in the loft showed me I just don't care about them and no you three will never be the new Diggle, Felicity or Oliver.

I also love Quinton staying up for Oliver with Chase at the beginning.  How far that relationship has come. As for Snoozan, I was busy filing my nails to give a crap about that scene.

I love what we got re: Felicity and am excited to see what will happen in the next ep.  I loved the contrast at the beginning of the episode  where Oliver  couldn't look Felicity in the eyes and in the end when he looked her straight  in the eyes.  Their relationship  is going back on track, no more robot  Oliver.

Regarding Anatoly, it was just a matter of time that relationship was going to break. He is the head of the mob and Oliver is not the same person he was in  Russia.

Chase is now my favorite  villian on Arrow.  Slade has been replaced.  There is something with the way JS is playing this character that has drawn me in.  I don't want Chase killed because I want to keep JS.  That last scene was so good between  the music and JS humming the song, he is a complete psycho.  I am curious to see what his next  move is.

I am glad I am excited  about Arrow again.  It feels good to enjoy the show that I use to love.

[Hiveminder]

4 hours ago, bijoux said:

The writer have, unintentionally I believe, painted Thea like a really uncaring sister at times this season. Her response to her brother's brutal physical and mental torture over the course of a few days is, I'll give him a ring when it's convenient. Really? And that's after he's been missing for almost a week. I know this part is because of Willah's limited appearances, but it's not that hard to come up with something better. Like, she was trapped in a zone with a natural disaster and they couldn't contact her, but now she's on her way back. Plus, it only reminded me of the season premiere with Oliver's kidnapping with Thea unwilling to suit up and then when she finally did, it was to stand around.

I don't think it's supposed to paint this picture of Thea, but it once again highlights how lazy the writing team can't be. Thea can't show up to rescue Oliver because we need him to needlessly kill a goon? She can't be bothered. Oliver's been missing for a really long time and he's suffered major physical and emotional trauma? She can't be bothered. Come up with better, sensical reasoning for your characters' actions is what I'm saying.

They could have said she was at some kind of retreat with monks on some mountain somewhere without access to internet or phones trying to find her inner peace. Really bad timing for her to cut herself off, but at least it would have made some kind of sense. 

[Trisha]

5 hours ago, finnaire said:

Anatoly and Oliver, the saddest breakup this show has ever seen. Anatoly with the, “Why did you leave me, look what I’ve become without you!” And Oliver all, “I thought you would be better off without me. I can’t even look at you any more!” And there were practically tears. And, you could tell they really, really wanted to hug. /sigh. If they had just understood that they needed each other we wouldn’t have been left with a bromance for the ages in ruins.

I loved the parallels about how Dig keeps Oliver in line is what Oliver used to do for Anatoly. This ep could have been titled "Bromances Prevent Monsters." 

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

6 hours ago, finnaire said:

 

I loved the parallels about how Dig keeps Oliver in line is what Oliver used to do for Anatoly. This ep could have been titled "Bromances Prevent Monsters." 

Oooh, and Felicity doesn't have a bro (Diggle can't be everywhere at once, people, he's got an actual child to raise) so she is going way over the line but also it makes sense that she would want to get closer to Kojo and Helix since they understand her somewhat. I did like they showed friendly scenes between the two women and the overall emphasis on team and OTA making everything better. Now, if only the writers would apply that to the whole series!

Regarding Thea, all they needed to say was she was rushing back to check on Oliver or show him on the phone with her. Or she was stuck at the airport because of weather.

Edited March 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[tv echo]

Did I blink and miss the scene where "Felicity learns something shocking at Helix"? Maybe that scene was postponed until the next episode. I didn't find anything shocking about anything that Felicity learned at Helix.

No voice-over intro for this episode. Yet another episode I enjoyed, although it had its flaws.  Another terrific acting performance from SA, although I didn't like that Oliver made decisions for his team and treated his team members like employees that he just fired. Yes, it's Oliver's decision if he wants to quit. But to lock everyone else out of the lair and dismantle it? The lair doesn't just belong to him, it belongs to the entire team. They need its resources if they want to continue to fight crime. But Oliver assumes that he can decide for the rest of the team (if I quit, you quit). And by shutting down the lair, he's actually putting them at more risk by depriving them of their masks and weapons when they do decide for themselves to continue fighting.

Is Anatoly doomed to die this season? Certainly looked like it for awhile during this episode. This show is really making a case for how the other people around us can influence our own characters and personalities. Anatoly became a worse man without Oliver. Oliver would've stayed a killer without Diggle and Felicity. Diggle's argument that finally persuaded Oliver in this episode actually worked for me. Oliver's friends may not believe what Chase said about Oliver being a murderer and basing his crusade on a lie, but the significant thing is that Oliver believes it. However, Diggle argued that, just like Diggle has to atone for killing his brother, if Oliver thinks he doesn't deserve to wear the hood, then he should work to become the man who does. In other words, you can't change the past, but you can change the future. (Unless you're on The Flash or LoT.) Just don't sit there wallowing in self-loathing and do nothing.

A big 'huh?' on Oliver being able to reprogram the security protocols for the Arrow Bunker - and also on Felicity not being able to hack them (unless she simply didn't want to). But of course, Curtis could hack them. Also, Arrow continues to promote stalkerish behavior by having Curtis track Felicity to Helix by injecting nanites into Felicity's blueberry pancakes without her knowledge or consent. Maybe this was the "shocking" thing that Felicity learned at Helix?

Also a big 'huh?' on Curtis and Felicity breaking into Kord Industries without wearing any masks. They should both know better. The security guard saw both their faces, clear as day. Will that come back to bite them in the future? Or does the tranq drug also mess with memory?

I never thought I would say this, but Rene/Wild Dog is growing on me. Dinah is fine in small doses as well. I noticed that Rene said that she didn't have a code name yet. And when Oliver was running that last mission in this episode, he didn't name her at all over the comms ("Spartan, Wild Dog, get the hostages. I'll handle the Bratva."), even though she participated in rescuing the hostages. So she hasn't been officially named "Black Canary" yet. I wonder if she ever will now,

 

given that Black Siren is returning to the show and might possibly have a redemption arc next season.

This episode was an ode to bromance - between Oliver and Diggle, and between Oliver and Anatoly. As such, it will likely receive near universal praise and approval. Of course, if this episode had focused on Oliver's romantic relationship instead, then that would probably be a different story.

 

It'll be interesting to see and compare the reviews in about a month or so when there's an episode focused on Oliver's bond with Felicity.

Edited March 30, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

9 minutes ago, tv echo said:

A big 'huh?' on Oliver being able to reprogram the security protocols for the Arrow Bunker - and also on Felicity not being able to hack them (unless she simply didn't want to). But of course, Curtis could hack them.

I assume Oliver used some program Felicity had set up for the first part and yeah, that she was giving him space.  I mean there's zero evidence she tried to hack the lair's security and she was so much more caught up in working her own angle and letting Oliver work his it makes sense.  

[way2interested]

11 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Did I blink and miss the scene where "Felicity learns something shocking at Helix"? Maybe that scene was postponed until the next episode. I didn't find anything shocking about anything that Felicity learned at Helix.

I guess it was that she learned how to out Chase? Even though it wasn't as shocking as much as just a plot point...Then again, she wasn't "shocked" at Oliver calling in the Bratva either (in fact being the only character not shocked and basically suggesting to Diggle that if Oliver thinks it's fine that they should roll with it while she does her own thing).

Maybe Chico is just bad at writing Felicity into the descriptions...

Edited March 30, 2017 by way2interested

[Primetimer]

Oliver Queen seriously considers turning the show into a pure political thriller. Then he goes back to comic book stuff.

View the full article

[statsgirl]

I can't get over Alana (is that her name?) telling Felicity and Curtis to break into Kord Industries WITHOUT A MASK.  That makes me worried. Which brings me to:

12 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

LOVED the whole Chase didn't plan for Felicity bit, though it also made me worried about the upcoming episodes because this is just TV 101 that that means that Chase probably does have plans involving her.

@apinknightmare noted on another thread that it seemed as if Chase was expecting the phone call the feds got and he was prepping to fight them and get out so he was probably either the mastermind behind Helix or working with them in some way.  This makes me think that:

1.  Chase is still ten steps ahead of Oliver and the Team and prepared to go undercover for this next part (and kudos to the writers for knowing to end the "sneer in plain sight" part before it gets old); and
2. Oliver's line to Felicity of "This is what we needed, something he couldn't plan for .., you" is wrong because Chase not only planned for her but put a lot of work into setting her up.  Also it makes me sad if it's true because it makes Felicity a bit less special.

 

11 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

JS is doing a fantastic job, but I still question the logic behind this character. How has he been able to hide his batshit crazy for so long? How has he arranged all of this? How does he know every single detail of Oliver's life? He doesn't make sense. 

My psychowank is that Chase could contain it because he was busy practicing his fighting skills, learning everything about Oliver's life, and setting up the whole elaborate plot.  Those would have been the outlets for the crazy.  Now that the plot is actually happening, the crazy is coming out.

9 hours ago, bijoux said:

This delay I'm fine with. Because Oliver jumping recklessly in bed with Bratva would have resulted in a new drug epidemic. Maybe they'd have killed Chase, but it would have created a bigger problem. I know Chase has killed a shitload of people, but drugs can mow down a whole lot more. Something like Chase's dear old dad did.

Anatoly was trying to create a new drug.  Chase's father raised the price of an existing drug necessary to cure a disease.

What Claybourne did was similar to what Mylan did

Quote

Generic drugmaker Mylan obtained the rights to sell EpiPen in 2007. Since then, Mylan has increased the list price from $94 to $609, researchers report in JAMA Internal Medicine.

“For EpiPen in particular, failing to fill a prescription due to cost could mean the difference between life or death when serious allergic reactions occur - this is why Mylan’s EpiPen price hikes are so ethically troublesome,” [lead study author Dr. Kao-Ping Chua, a public health researcher at the University of Chicago] said by email.

The cost of the epinephrine in an epi-pen is less then $1 and the components of the pen cost about $20.  Compared to what Mylan is doing, what Claybourne did was penny ante stuff. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by statsgirl

[Bats27]

How many times has Oliver had a crisis of self or questioned his crusade and his personal character? How many times has Diggle had to give him a pep talk to get him back in the game? It seems like their treating this as a new thing but this honestly feels like the same kind of emotional conflict Oliver goes through every season. It's not like Chase is the first villain to make him question his character and who "Oliver Queen" is either.

So Oliver...how does using your crusade as an excuse for murder track with the years where you didn't kill people or actually retired to the suburbs? Or is he just talking about year one as The Hood, which somehow negates his character development and his progression as a hero? Is he attributing all the times he broke his code (Vertigo, Ra's, Darhk) as just relapsing on his addiction to murder, despite how far apart they were and the circumstances regarding them?
 

[DeadZeus]

I haven't seen the episode yet but is there any indication GA will be back in upcoming episode? My biggest gripe right now is the lack of GA in modern time this half season. Thus also a big diminish of badass scenes for him which started strong this season. Sometimes not any action scenes at all for modern Oliver... Just wanna know if there is an indication GA might return soon judging by this episode?

[tv echo]

Yes. From the last Team Arrow scene in this episode...

Curtis: "Does this mean we're officially back in business?"
Oliver: "Aside from a few minor changes... yeah." 
(He flips the switch on the panel to show six glass cases housing the team's costumes, except for the Green Arrow suit.)
Rene: "The line-up could use a little more green, hoss."
Oliver: "I'm not quite there yet. I'm thinking that with this team behind me, it'll be sooner rather than later."

Edited March 30, 2017 by tv echo

[leopardprint]

The face of "oh, you're still here?"

Same, Oliver, same.

[Cleanqueen]

After that breakup I am most certainly convinced that she and Oliver were supposed to end a long time ago and she wasn't supposed to be redeemed. I think the plan was probably to have Thea kidnapped but whatever contract they had with Willa changed things.

Also the producers made it seem like it would be her questioning her choices but instead Oliver was like "Oops I totally forgot about you even after you were kidnapped, let me just end this now since you keep coming around here" 

My fav new line "I apologize" 

[leopardprint]

"I apologize for the presumption..." 

So tragic, so heartbreaking. 

She also whatevered on out of his office. 

I almost want to join Twitter so I can ask one of those fans the EPs like to get the scoop on what was really supposed to happen here. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[Cleanqueen]

11 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

"I apologize for the presumption..." 

So tragic, so heartbreaking. 

She also whatevered on out of his office. 

I almost want to join Twitter so I can ask one of those fans the EPs like to get the scoop on what was really supposed to happen here. 

Tragic and quite humorous at the same time. What I understood from that scene was that he had no intention to get back with her after he survived impeachment. I think it would explain why he wasn't aware she was even kidnapped in the first place. 

[tennisgurl]

I have more thoughts!

I really just felt awful for Oliver the whole episode. He spent the whole first half of the episode just hallow and broken, it was a really interesting performance by SA. He just seemed so timid and nervous, even when he was with Dig. Even by the end, he still didn't seem fully back to normal, but he seemed to be heading towards being in a better place. Which, again, would someone get this guy a therapist?!?! He clearly has severe PTSD, at the very least, and his brain was recently cracked open by a serial killer. The guy needs help.

My biggest problem with the episode? Where the hell was Thea?!?! No way do I buy that Thea was just like "Oh, my brother was chained up in a basement and tortured for about a week by a psychopath, and is clearly physically injured and mentally shattered? Whatever, I'm sure he`ll be fine. Text me updates I guess." Its like when Oliver got kidnaped in the beginning of the season, and she didn't suit up to save him. At least she could maybe justify that with him being able to handle himself. Now, he's clearly a mess, and could probably use some support! Its just weird writing. Even if they couldn't get Willa back, they could at least come up with a decent reason for her not to come back.

I love the fact that Oliver was so obviously a billion times more heartbroken to break up with Anatoly than Susan. With Susan, it seemed like he just wanted to make sure she was alright, then was just breaking up with her as an item he had to get off his To Do List, but when he broke up with Anatoly, they were both practically in tears. And they were just shooting at each other! Speaking of, I'm going to be really sad if this is the end of Anatoly on the show, or the end of his friendship with Oliver. I love his cheerful cynicism and dark sense of humor, and he and Oliver have been through a lot damn it! Although, I guess it was inevitable. Oliver fights criminals, Anatoly is a criminal, but still, I hoped they could make it work! Although, I'm kind of just glad that he didn't die, which is where I thought all of this was going.

The stuff with Anatoly actually does fit in with the theme of the season, that people can fall into a dark path if they don't have anyone to help keep them on the straight and narrow, and, that tried and true message, that the path to Hell is paved with good intentions. I really do think that Anatoly wanted to make the Bratva a kinder and gentler criminal organization, and he did want to use his power to help people, but along the way, he made compromises, and did bad things for what seemed like good reasons at the time, and eventually became the kind of guy he hated. Maybe this wouldn't have happened if Oliver had stuck around, or maybe they both just would have gotten worse, who knows? He never found a Felicity or a Dig, so here we are. We also see that with Oliver, and how hard Dig is trying to save Oliver from himself, and we will certainly see something like it with Felicity and Helix soon. Oliver started his time as the Hood with good intentions, but he went about it the wrong way. Felicity joined Helix, a sketchy criminal organization, because she thought she could do real good, even though its inevitable that this wont end well for her, and she`ll end up having to compromise her morals for things that I'm sure seemed good at the time. Kind of like what probably happened with Anatoly and the Bratva. See writers, you can write decent parallels when you try!

I wont say what Anatoly did was alright, but he has a point about Oliver screwing him over. He knows that Anatoly takes promises and ties to the Bratva really seriously, he had to know he wasn't going to be alright with this. And, come on Oliver. You called your mob buddy to get his goons to kill a serial killer. What did you THINK was going to happen? I know your going through some stuff, but still.

[Carrie Ann]

17 hours ago, Trisha said:

3 good episodes in a row. I'm shook. 

Same. I really enjoyed the previous two episodes, but this one really felt like Arrow for me. I think it's actually the first one since sometime last season, and even then they were few and far between. It's such a bummer that the writers can't seem to figure out how to do this the majority of the time, but I'll take what I can get for now.

For the first time, I didn't feel disappointed by any OTA actions or interactions. I felt like I recognized them all, and understood where they were all coming from with each other. I loved all the Dig/Oliver stuff, obviously. Dig felt powerful and important to the story for the first time this season, IMO. So refreshing. I didn't mind Oliver being so down, because Sad Oliver is one of my favorite flavors of Oliver, and I was kind of surprised when he started to turn around because it felt a little fast. But it is for the best, because the energy of the whole episode definitely picked up after that. Really loved all the Felicity stuff, and it was really fun seeing her in break-in mode.

In non-OTA news, it turns out I like the noobs now. I'm not sure exactly what happened. I think they've done a better job of putting them in their place, so it feels like they appreciate OTA (and even Lance, when relevant) where earlier on it felt like they were petulant, arrogant, and fighting for prominence--with each other, but also with the core cast. The show just handled all of that really clumsily. So, now that some time has passed, they feel more integrated to me and their mere presence doesn't grate so much. But they've also toned down the attitudes, I think. Like, Rene still has all that abrasiveness, but now it's directed toward people that I don't feel defensive of (Chase, Dinah, Curtis), and his attitude toward the core cast is respectful and caring. Same for Dinah and Curtis, IMO. I found myself smiling at them all several times this episode. What has become of me?

Finally, Chase is my favorite villain ever on the show. He's like the definition of Love to Hate for me. I adore him and never want him to leave but ALSO I want him dead ASAP. Please, can Simon be a twin? Or wearing a Human Target mask? Can Josh Segarra play another role and stay forever?

Edited March 30, 2017 by Carrie Ann

[insomniadreams88]

I was half-checked out during the Oliver/Susan scene, but did any of it have anything to do with WM's quote about going through trauma? And did she basically ask him to out himself as GA at one point to try to bring Chase down? Even though she's known him all of five minutes? 

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I was half-checked out during the Oliver/Susan scene, but did any of it have anything to do with WM's quote about going through trauma? And did she basically ask him to out himself as GA at one point to try to bring Chase down? Even though she's known him all of five minutes? 

Well they did mention her kidnapping but Susan didn't blame Oliver and didn't seem to think it was a reason to break up, like Wendy made it look like. Also yeah, she said they didn't believe Chase kidnapped her because he had a solid alibi but if Oliver corroborated her statement maybe they were going to believe them. Then she realized that it meant Oliver was going to out himself. Oliver obviously had other plans for Chase.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Carrie Ann said:

In non-OTA news, it turns out I like the noobs now. I'm not sure exactly what happened. I think they've done a better job of putting them in their place, so it feels like they appreciate OTA (and even Lance, when relevant) where earlier on it felt like they were petulant, arrogant, and fighting for prominence--with each other, but also with the core cast. The show just handled all of that really clumsily. So, now that some time has passed, they feel more integrated to me and their mere presence doesn't grate so much. But they've also toned down the attitudes, I think. Like, Rene still has all that abrasiveness, but now it's directed toward people that I don't feel defensive of (Chase, Dinah, Curtis), and his attitude toward the core cast is respectful and caring. Same for Dinah and Curtis, IMO. I found myself smiling at them all several times this episode. What has become of me?

No, I feel the same way. Turns out all they needed to do was give Team Junior less screen time to allow for the main characters to get the main stories. I did actually like Rene, and I've been feeling ok about him for a few episodes now. Dinah's been good because she's been a supporting member and hasn't been taking up screen time. Curtis is give or take with me, but when he's supporting Felicity, then I'm all good with him. 

My dream team is still OTA, Rory, Curtis on comms with Felicity and Thea/Quentin/Dinah only being called for missions when absolutely needed (now I might even add Wild Dog to the Thea/Quentin/Dinah call list) but right now, this works just fine. It only took them eighteen episodes to figure it out. 

[bijoux]

I don't actively dislike Rene anymore, but I wish he would stop calling everyone and their mother Hoss. Preferably yesterday.

[Hiveminder]

Did anyone notice that when Oliver was putting his sweatshirt on in the beginning everyone was still standing pretty far away from him? Do you think he refused to let anyone help and patched himself up? Because that's what it looked like to me. 

[bijoux]

I absolutely think that.

[tennisgurl]

That's what I thought. He didn't even want to look at any of them, let alone let them touch him. Oh Oliver.

[bijoux]

Now that I'm thinking about it, it actually makes the acting and directing choice to have Oliver hug Susan seem even more off. I don't know if it's because it was the following day and he amanged to get himself under control in the interim or what. Also, Susan looked like she still had bruises to me. And the fact she showed up in the city hall, where she knows Chase is a) stupid and reckless, b) suspicious.

[calliope1975]

I hope Oliver gets to take a vacay at the end of this year. Preferably to Bali with Felicity. 

Or, you know, an in-patient, residential treatment facility for some massive, intensive therapy.

[lemotomato]

2 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Well they did mention her kidnapping but Susan didn't blame Oliver and didn't seem to think it was a reason to break up, like Wendy made it look like. 

Not only did Susan not blame Oliver, she pleaded with him to not let Prometheus get in his head. This is what WM said:

Quote

“I don’t know how you overcome that,” says co-showrunner Wendy Mericle. “I mean, Susan’s still there. She’s on the show. And we love Carly [Pope]. But for any couple that’s been through that kind of trauma – and trauma that, ultimately, Susan can trace back to Oliver in some ways – let’s just say that’s a tough thing to come back from.”

So another entry in the "Things WM talked about in an interview, but didn't show up on screen" post!

Edited March 30, 2017 by lemotomato

[insomniadreams88]

11 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Now that I'm thinking about it, it actually makes the acting and directing choice to have Oliver hug Susan seem even more off. I don't know if it's because it was the following day and he amanged to get himself under control in the interim or what. Also, Susan looked like she still had bruises to me. And the fact she showed up in the city hall, where she knows Chase is a) stupid and reckless, b) suspicious.

Because how else are we supposed to know that Oliver cares about her? Also, probably so that some viewers weren't wondering why Oliver was breaking up with this random person who just walked into his office. 

And yes, Susan showing up at City Hall was stupid, reckless and suspicious, but like with all her past behavior, don't you know it's only because she's a good person and a good reporter?

[MissLucas]

Man, I'm glad I've learned my lesson with Supernatural. CW shows are great breaking their heroes into tiny pieces and god-damn awful at piecing them back together. And what exactly has Willa Holland done to be side-lined for the season's major plot? Brother gets tortured for a week? Fine, I'll give him a phone call.  Geez, I hated this episode.

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

Now that I'm thinking about it, it actually makes the acting and directing choice to have Oliver hug Susan seem even more off.

I read a comment somewhere that because the breakup was couched in terms of "danger" that they basically left it open like she could come back when the danger is gone. Now I don't think she is going to come back or anything (definitely not as a love interest) but it's an example of how sloppy the writers have been with this storyline in particular. It's a "TV Love Interest" checklist. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

And yes, Susan showing up at City Hall was stupid, reckless and suspicious, but like with all her past behavior, don't you know it's only because she's a good person and a good reporter?

I had a moment where I thought, she is still playing Oliver. Like she's in cahoots with Adrian and is willing to endure some kind of abuse to get Oliver to break, not unlike Artemis did.

I thought it the bolded part of their exchange was odd

Quote

Oliver: I'm so sorry.

Susan: This wasn't you, Oliver. It was him.
Oliver: Well, I--I created him. And I know that that might sound weird, but, uh, this happened to you because of me.
Susan: Don't let him do this to you. Don't let that bastard inside your head. I gave the police a statement about him.
Oliver: But they didn't believe you because he probably had an ironclad alibi, right?
Susan: Yes. But if you corroborate my statement
Oliver: I can't.
Susan: I know. It--it would probably mean outing yourself as the Green Arrow, but--

Oliver: It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the fact that Chase would have planned for that just like he has planned for everything else. My only chance is--well, I have to do something that he hasn't planned for.
Susan: Well, like what?
Oliver: Listen, Susan, I know that W--we never got a chance to resolve things.
I can't be with you. My apologies if that's presumptuous.
Susan: O--Oliver
Oliver: This is not how This is not how I wanted my life to--to touch yours.
I should have known better, and for that, I really, truly am sorry.

I thought it was strange that a woman who has never declared any kind of real love for Oliver, who was trying to get him to admit he was the Green Arrow, who did something super sketchy to Thea...is still kind of sort of suggesting that she could help but it might out him as the Green Arrow.

Like what if Oliver had said, "Yes. I'll take that risk to stop Adrian".  I don't get why she would even suggest it when she knew it would out him...if she wasn't seeking to out him as she had been.

It's the weirdest unexplained character shift I've ever seen this show do and that is saying something. Like I feel like it's not what it seems.

I dunno exactly how to explain it.

[leopardprint]

18 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

It's the weirdest unexplained character shift I've ever seen this show do and that is saying something. Like I feel like it's not what it seems.

I dunno exactly how to explain it.

Honestly, to me, it makes it seem like Oliver was dating her to keep her from reporting on him and Chase took care of that for him so bye girl. Makes them both grossly unprofessional and sleazy. 

Also her face when Oliver dismissed her (brrrr..man) looked annoyed not hurt so she's transitioning back to shady reporter from pointless love interest. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[Mellowyellow]

Oliver: Listen, Susan, I know that W--we never got a chance to resolve things.
I can't be with you. My apologies if that's presumptuous.

This will never stop being hilarious!!!!! It's the way I talk to the electricity telemarketers when they ring just before I hang up!

[wonderwall]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

Man, I'm glad I've learned my lesson with Supernatural. CW shows are great breaking their heroes into tiny pieces and god-damn awful at piecing them back together. And what exactly has Willa Holland done to be side-lined for the season's major plot? Brother gets tortured for a week? Fine, I'll give him a phone call.  Geez, I hated this episode.

Well, to be fair... Oliver isn't pieced back together yet. He's only slightly less broken than he was last week.

[Bats27]

Yeah Thea being inexplicably sidelined this season has been one of my biggest peeves with it.  And now it's gotten to the point where it's (unintentionally I hope) making her look bad.  I don't buy for one second that, after her brother was kidnapped and tortured by a murdering psychopath for like a week, that she wouldn't immediately rush back to check on him.

They could have at least written in an excuse like she was TRYING to get back, but was being held up by bad weather, or something.

[tv echo]

EK live-tweeted this episode - some of his more memorable tweets: