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S05.E18: Disbanded


Tara Ariano
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Sigh, Mr. Terrific and Wild D probably ARE here to stay.  Curtis has become a lot more tolerable with his T-Spheres, though someday I'm going to want even an cock and bull explanation for how they can float and hover.  And Rene has been muzzled enough lately that I've not minded him.  I even sort of liked him that episode with Quentin but I doubt I'll ever be invested in him or think he's needed.  One guy in a mask that uses guns is enough.  

I guess the upside is there's more canon fodder to keep my favs alive and well.  

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(edited)

While reading media reviews of this episode, I was motivated by something a reviewer said to go back and check exactly when and how the current lair was built...

Remember how Oliver surprised his then current team with the new Arrow Bunker last season? And remember that this new lair is located in the basement underground of his mayoral campaign office? Lo and behold, while it was Oliver's idea to build the new lair, we learned that he had plenty of help from Felicity, Cisco and Star Labs. But most significantly, it was Felicity who bought the property!  

Oliver (in 404): "There's a reason we had Felicity buy Blood's campaign office."

So in this episode, Oliver was locking Felicity out of property that she owned.

Edited by tv echo
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(edited)
15 minutes ago, tv echo said:

So in this episode, Oliver was locking Felicity out of property that she owned.

Haha, I kind of enjoyed Felicity's nonchalance about that. She's like "Oh Oliver wants to mope in the lair by himself again, whatevs, let him get it out of his system. Oh he's got boxes this time, he's serious." Less than 24 hour turnaround on that spiral of darkness and isolation. Do you think he listened to Hurt on repeat down there? (Johnny Cash of course)

The eternal question: Does Oliver still live there? Where does Susan think he lives? Is there a gif set of all the times Oliver has been alone and sad in he lair?

Edited by leopardprint
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Considering Oliver has just gone through some major shit and it seems likely that while Felicity owns the place, it's him who lives there, I'm not really bothered by it. Where else was he supposed to go and recuperate a bit? He can't really do it at the mayor's office. And that is pretty much the only place he's hung out this season outside of the bunker. Save for those couple of dark times at Susan's, but I'm trying to forget them. It also helps that I'm absolutely positive Felicity could and would have gotten in had she wanted to.

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(edited)

While I enjoyed this episode for the most part, mostly because of Diggle, I found the swings in Felicity's and Oliver's demeanors a bit abrupt. I mean, Felicity was clearly shaken after seeing what Oliver had gone through. She talks about seeing him at the lowest of low and this is even worse. And yet, she seems quite perky when she's at Helix talking about pies and you wouldn't think there was anything wrong at all going on with her friend. I get that she's focused on Chase but I didn't see any particular desire to bring him down, just Felicity being Felicity going after a bad guy. I think it's a combination of the writing, the directing and, yeah, the acting.

Same with Oliver, and while I'm glad he didn't spend the entire episode brooding because mopey Oliver is just boring as hell for me it was still a very quick turnaround for a guy who was supposedly broken. At least he still believes himself to be a monster. And he basically agreed with Diggle to atone for his "sins" by continuing to be a vigilante. 

But I hope that whole "I'm a monster" will be still be explored because it just feels like it just got shelved for now. He still believes this.

Also, this episode is proof you can't tell who's going to get focus based on promotional stills. There was no picture of Digg among the released photos.

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
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24 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Same with Oliver, and while I'm glad he didn't spend the entire episode brooding because mopey Oliver is just boring as hell for me it was still a very quick turnaround for a guy who was supposedly broken. At least he still believes himself to be a monster. And he basically agreed with Diggle to atone for his "sins" by continuing to be a vigilante.

I somewhat agree with this but it's also hard to take Oliver's crisis that seriously when a) been done before and b) dealt with so quickly and diminishes what happened to him in 517. I wonder if his spiral shouldn't have been post 5x09 and then show him for a few episodes hiding in his mayor's job. I think killing a good, innocent cop that your close friend "cares" about because you chose to shoot first would be a better catalyst for a "I'm a murderer, monster, I should be alone" spiral." 

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2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

While I enjoyed this episode for the most part, mostly because of Diggle, I found the swings in Felicity's and Oliver's demeanors a bit abrupt. I mean, Felicity was clearly shaken after seeing what Oliver had gone through. She talks about seeing him at the lowest of low and this is even worse. And yet, she seems quite perky when she's at Helix talking about pies and you wouldn't think there was anything wrong at all going on with her friend. I get that she's focused on Chase but I didn't see any particular desire to bring him down, just Felicity being Felicity going after a bad guy. I think it's a combination of the writing, the directing and, yeah, the acting.

My guess is she's still basically under the quirky comic relief command.  Who else gets a dark arc but isn't allowed to go dark?

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I actually find the whole thing very consistent with Felicity’s personality. She was shaken and upset and decided to head off to deal with Chase. While she was at Helix trying to deal with chase she appeared to be fine. I've never thought of her as someone who was going up mope around and looking all sad or mad about something so I can buy that her normal chirpy Felicity behaviour comes out while she's catching Chase.

I can see her going on a dark spiral but still retaining her normal demeanor whole doing it. I actually think EBR is doing wondefully going dark while still being very adorably Felicity.

I sent my beloved old dog in for some serious major surgery whilst still cracking jokes about what a nuisance he was and still being pretty cheerful that day. If anything had happened to him I'd be devastated but I wasn't going to mope until bad news hit.

Anyways my point is I like the way they've written her as personally I can understand why she's like that.  

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I'm the same way.  I make jokes on the way to a funeral.   I am, admittedly a bit closed off and try to compartmentalize my emotions as much as possible and that seemed to me what Felicity was doing.  No time to be sad when shit needs to get done. 

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1 hour ago, Delphi said:

I'm the same way.  I make jokes on the way to a funeral.   I am, admittedly a bit closed off and try to compartmentalize my emotions as much as possible and that seemed to me what Felicity was doing.  No time to be sad when shit needs to get done. 

I'm the same, and worse I'm a nervous laughter. My mom was injured once and she was so mad because I couldn't stop laughing! Now of course everyone in my family knows this about me and we can laugh about it but I seriously have no control over it, wish i did. :/

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I feel like Felicity was kind of trying to compartmentalize, and that her chirpy banter was just her attempts at dealing with everything. She wants to catch Chase, so she tries to act like everything is normal, and that the person she on some level certainly still loves isn't a total wreck because of this guy. Being miserable isn't going to help anyone.  And I can buy Oliver coming back from his dead eyed misery at the start of the episode. Say what you will about the guy, but Oliver is defiantly a survivor. He just needed some perspective and some time away from Chase. He still doesn't seem to be at 100% by the end of the episode, and I would like to see him still struggling, but we do have a bad guy to catch, and a story to continue. I would have liked to see him in his bad place a little longer (not because I enjoy seeing Oliver all miserable and broken, because it was really depressing)just because it would add more character drama, but I can get why they wanted him to get back to kicking ass sooner rather then later.

The person whos reaction I question most is Thea, mainly because she didn't get to HAVE a reaction! Yeah I know there's behind the scenes reason why she isn't around, but it still seems so weird to me that she wouldn't even stop by to check on Oliver after all of this. I can only guess that maybe Dig tried to downplay what Oliver went through, so she wouldn't get super upset, and she didn't realize how bad things were with him. But even then, her bother (and only living relative) was just tortured for six days by the psychopath who hates him. Oliver's a tough guy, but NOBODY is going to come back from that totally perfect.

Really, I think everyone in this universe should just be allowed to have a few personal days after stuff like this happens. People keep going through horrible, traumatic events, and are just expected to get over it in an episode or two, thanks to a brief pep talk. No wonder everyone keeps making terrible life choices that have massive effects on the multiverse, these people have massive baggage that they never have time to deal with!

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(edited)

I enjoyed this episode.  I don't have a problem with an emotional, broken Oliver because he has lost so much and witnessed so many deaths of the people he loves.  So when Chase says that everyone around him either suffers or dies, it's not a lie.  Oliver absolutely believes it to be true, which is why he broke up with Susan.  It's why he didn't tell his sister his identity or Lauren or Tommy - because he knew it would put them in danger.  This episode conveyed two things very clearly:  1) Oliver and Diggle are brothers till the end.  I loved hearing Diggle tell Oliver the truth about himself, but I also loved how Oliver said "You may not believe it, but I do.  I do," at which point Diggle basically said "Then we're going to have to fix that because it isn't true."  You can see Oliver getting this emotional hug from Diggle, his brother, that he desperately needed.  I thought the parallel of Diggle telling the story of how broken he felt when he killed his brother and how Oliver refused to give up on him was juxtaposed with what Oliver was feeling now.  It was just great stuff.  These two characters and their relationship to each other is what made me love Arrow in the first place; and 2) Chase is the psychotic nut who absolutely LOVES killing (not Oliver).  When he started to attack that one cop, he then just kept pummeling him with this small smile on his face.  It was creepy, and then you see him covered in blood in the car, and he's just whistling, very happily.  Have we EVER seen Oliver like that?  Never.  Oliver was actually broken up about just the idea that he could be a serial killer but Chase actually loves it, revels in it, and feels absolutely zero guilt afterwards.  Now that's psychotic.  

I miss the days when Arrow was just about Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity.  I don't like the new arrivals, and I get that they show has to find something new each season, but Oliver never needed sidekicks before.  So I don't know why he needs a team now.  I'm finding that Oliver has simply too many enemies now:  Chase, now Anatoly, and even Kovar.  I'd rather they get rid of the newbies, focus on Oliver, Diggle, Felicity and Thea and get back to basics of fighting one bad guy at a time.  

Btw - I also don't like how the writers have suddenly scrapped the initial premise of Oliver's plight on the island.  We thought he was stuck there for five years, but now the writers are changing the story that he was globe-trotting and was sent back to the island to cover up that fact.  It doesn't explain why Oliver had long hair and full grown beard and wearing rags when we first see him in the first episode of season one.  I hate when writers fail to remember cannon history of a show and just make stuff up for . . . reasons.

Also, regarding Anatoly, when Oliver asked for his help, running drugs and getting people hooked on them was the furthest thing from Oliver's mind.  The man Oliver knew in Russia saved those children from a Tuberculosis outbreak.  Oliver asked what happened to him, and Anatoly blamed Oliver for leaving him and thereby turning Anatoly into what he had become.  That's BS!  He's putting HIS choices onto Oliver, like the guy doesn't have enough guilt in his life.   With everything Anatoly and Oliver had been through, I find it shitty that Anatoly would declare war on Oliver for asking him not to kill someone.  It's not like Oliver double-crossed him or betrayed him or sold him out.  Oliver made a request and then changed his mind.  If Anatoly has problems with his men - and he does because of HIS choices - then that's on him, not Oliver to fix.  Be a leader or don't, but don't blame someone else because you can't find a way to make money unless you hurt your Bratva "brother" to do it.  That's why Oliver and Diggle will always be brothers, and Anatoly was a wannabe.

Edited by Bishop
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2 hours ago, Bishop said:

With everything Anatoly and Oliver had been through, I find it shitty that Anatoly would declare war on Oliver for asking him not to kill someone.  It's not like Oliver double-crossed him or betrayed him or sold him out.  Oliver made a request and then changed his mind.  If Anatoly has problems with his men - and he does because of HIS choices - then that's on him, not Oliver to fix.

It wasn't that Oliver changed his mind about wanting Chase killed but that he made a deal and then pulled the payment aka letting Anatoly steal certain drugs that when combined would make some new super addictive drug.  If Oliver had refused to allow such "payment" when Anatoly first showed up with his guys, I don't think we'd have had this hard break between them where Anatoly now feels betrayed. (Though they may still have knocked heads cause Anatoly was unlikely to have traveled that far without any intent on getting what he wanted but maybe he'd have given him he curtisy of hitting a neighboring town or something.  

So technically while Oliver should never have agreed to the terms, he DID agree to them.  So Anatoly did have a reason to feel jerked around and since apparently he needed the big score to secure his position, he was even less forgiving of Oliver's wishywashy orders.  I do blame Anatoly for the business he's in and was happy he was thwarted, but I don't blame him for being upset; I understand why he was, if that makes sense?  

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5 hours ago, Bishop said:

Btw - I also don't like how the writers have suddenly scrapped the initial premise of Oliver's plight on the island.  We thought he was stuck there for five years, but now the writers are changing the story that he was globe-trotting and was sent back to the island to cover up that fact.  It doesn't explain why Oliver had long hair and full grown beard and wearing rags when we first see him in the first episode of season one.  I hate when writers fail to remember cannon history of a show and just make stuff up for . . . reasons.

Yeah, it's not as if he went to places like Hong Kong while he was missing for five years.

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(edited)

Like Moira and the other people in Starling City, we the audience believed that Oliver was on that island for five  years.  But as early as episode 1x 12 (Vertigo), we find out that he's a Bratva captain and speaks Russian as well as Cantonese (Mandarin?). There's no way he could have got those skills if he was on Lian Yu for the full five years. What we though we knew about Oliver wasn't true.

So I don't see that as scrapping the initial premise or being a retcon because it was introduced on the show so early and I'm pretty sure we'll see a terrible wig and fake beard  by the end of the season..    Now things like the "Laurel was always opposed to killing"that they have been selling this season, that's a retcon.

Edited by statsgirl
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3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Like Moira and the other people in Starling City, we the audience believed that Oliver was on that island for five  years.  But as early as episode 1x 12 (Vertigo), we find out that he's a Bratva captain and speaks Russian as well as Cantonese (Mandarin?). There's no way he could have got those skills if he was on Lian Yu for the full five years.

So I don't see that as scrapping the initial premise or being a retcon because it was introduced on the show so early and I'm pretty sure we'll see a terrible wig and fake beard  by the end of the season..    Now things like the "Laurel was always opposed to killing"that they have been selling this season, that's a retcon.

Agreed as far as the original plan, but I do wish MG had internalized some of the subtleties.  I'm still bummed about Oliver's failure to achieve fluent Cantonese or Madarin as they showed in season one.  Over Tumblr he denied that was ever a skill of Oliver's.  Sure, it is a complex language and most real people will not be fluent after five years of non-continuous use, but it was one of the things that made Oliver badass to me.  I think MG's Oliver is much more of a dumb thug than he has been presented by others.

While the continuity is there, it is weakened by poor attention from the show runner, so I understand if it feels like a retcon to some.

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31 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

e Moira and the other people in Starling City, we the audience believed that Oliver was on that island for five  years.  But as early as episode 1x 12 (Vertigo), we find out that he's a Bratva captain and speaks Russian as well as Cantonese (Mandarin?) . There's no way he could have got those skills if he was on Lian Yu for the full five years. 

This is one argument I've never understood.. There were other people on the island with Oliver,  like Yao Fei who spoke Mandarin. Who knows who else he could  he have learned it from .he didn't HAVE to get off the island to learn those. Oliver seems to have an affinity for languages.

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And yet he has been written as fairly derpy with languages after season one.

He is still learning basic words from the kid in Hong Kong after he has been living with the family for at least four months.  Now Yao Fei and Shado probably spoke Mandarin (Did they?  What did Shado's twin speak?), the people Oliver tortured for Waller were shown to speak English but I assume they spoke both dialects, and the Yamashiro family likely spoke Japanese at home, but I think it was Cantonese that Oliver is shown as stumbling over.  Maybe he feigns misunderstanding to take the kid's mind off the danger, but it is not made clear.  He never demonstrates proficiency with any Asian languages in season three, though that is clearly when he should have polished up.

 In Russia his poor accent is remarked on as a bit of a joke, though he could have started learning from Anatoly in season two and certainly had time to learn from Poppy in season four.  I don't remember them playing his accent for yucks in the season two episode.  Isn't Isabel a bit impressed with him even before the vodka?

Sure, maybe Oliver's accent has improved over these past months along with his filleting technique.  Maybe he brings a couple Rosetta Stone lessons along with the fake beard to the island, thus explaining the four/five month gap before he lights the signal fire.  Maybe MG forgot that, as well as going dark and killer-y by the end of season five, there are actually a few other skills Oliver picked up.

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6 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

And yet he has been written as fairly derpy with languages after season one.

He could have learned enough from Yao Fei and Shado, I think both spoke Mandarin, at least enough to be functional like he was in that  scene with Tommy in s1. It didn't need to be perfect. 

Lian Yu had everybody and their brother and sister and 3rd cousin twice removed go to that island when Oliver was on it.

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They speak Cantonese in Hong Kong where Shado's sister was living so I assumed that's what Yao Fei and Shado spoke.

As far as the general world know, it was a deserted island.  Diggle and Felicity know now that it wasn't, and Thea learned when Malcolm took her there to fight Slade but it's still  assumed by the world at large that Oliver was alone there for the 5 years.

But even if there were a UN hub there to show how Oliver became a polyglot, it still wouldn't explain how he became a Bratva captain.  I see that as a clue the show gave us in the middle of the first season to indicate that Oliver hadn't been on Lian Yu the whole time.

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12 hours ago, catrox14 said:

He could have learned enough from Yao Fei and Shado, I think both spoke Mandarin, at least enough to be functional like he was in that  scene with Tommy in s1. It didn't need to be perfect

The guy he interrogates for information says he had to be Chinese because his accent was perfect.  I guess we can say it was the heat of the moment or that Oliver got that good at the interrogation type questions?  It still requires more hand-waving than I like to go from that episode to Oliver's currently demonstrated proficiency. 

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(edited)
18 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

The guy he interrogates for information says he had to be Chinese because his accent was perfect.  I guess we can say it was the heat of the moment or that Oliver got that good at the interrogation type questions?  It still requires more hand-waving than I like to go from that episode to Oliver's currently demonstrated proficiency. 

I understand. My point was going back to the idea that the ONLY way Oliver could have become at least passably proficient in Chinese and Russian was by leaving the island. I'm suggesting that is not necessarily the case because of the number of visitors coming and going from that "deserted" island.

Edited by catrox14
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Ah, I see. Chinese, for certain.  I would have liked to see him developing language skills in Russian from the captives and guards in season four, too.  I don't need much to hang my belief on.  As you say, it's possible for him to develop these language skills on the island alone with all the people who stopped by.

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21 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Like Moira and the other people in Starling City, we the audience believed that Oliver was on that island for five  years.  But as early as episode 1x 12 (Vertigo), we find out that he's a Bratva captain and speaks Russian as well as Cantonese (Mandarin?). There's no way he could have got those skills if he was on Lian Yu for the full five years. What we though we knew about Oliver wasn't true.

So I don't see that as scrapping the initial premise or being a retcon because it was introduced on the show so early and I'm pretty sure we'll see a terrible wig and fake beard  by the end of the season..    Now things like the "Laurel was always opposed to killing"that they have been selling this season, that's a retcon.

He ran into Chinese people in Season 1 and a Russian gangster in Season 2, when he was still on (or around) the island. Obviously, the whole "alone on the island for 5 years" story was total BS. The whole thing really went off the rails when Argus recruited him to go to Hong King.

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19 minutes ago, ketose said:

Obviously, the whole "alone on the island for 5 years" story was total BS.

We the audience knew that by the second episode but the people in Oliver's life didn't.

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I've had a few days to think about and rewatch the episode - I'm not sure if I like it that much, but I think it follows perfectly from 5x17, if that makes sense.

See, throughout, but especially in the first part, SA plays Oliver as a rape victim, and that fits so perfectly with what Chase did to him - he took away Oliver's power and strength, and violated him emotionally and physically.

That first scene, in the lair, Oliver can't look anyone in the eyes - he can't even finish a sentence with Felicity, and begs her to leave - I understood it as not wanting her to see him like this. Also, that's why she won't hack into the lair's security, even though she probably could do it in her sleep. Oliver needs to feel safe somewhere.

As an aside, I also noticed that Felicity is the only one in that first scene who is worried about Oliver, and how bad his injuries are; even with Diggle, it takes him a while to move beyond "let's make the bastard pay" towards "I'm not leaving you", because the latter is what Oliver needs to hear.

I'm ignoring anything with Susan.

I'm also glad that we're finally done with the Bratva as best buddies idea, though I could have done without the burning off of Oliver's tattoo in the last episode to prepare us for that. But seriously, I'd so had enough of good old uncle Anatoli and his Bratva buddies. See, Chase is evil, but he's evil in a comics character way. So he can be as evil as he likes, and no-one's ever trying to convince us that he's got a heart of gold. And the evil he does is over-the-top, where does he get all his resources, how is he good at everything, sort of evil. Whereas the Bratva is a real-world thing, and the evil done by them is real world evil. Enough with the romanticizing of organized crime.

I'm not faulting Oliver for trying use them to deal with Chase, though. He feels so completely powerless and alone in this episode that it's perfectly understandable that in his lashing out he's going to use anything he has available. Why doesn't he use his team? Because he feels dirty and unworthy of them.

At least by the end of the episode, he's been brought to realise that he is worthy of them, that Chase didn't take everything away from him.

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14 hours ago, arjumand said:

I've had a few days to think about and rewatch the episode - I'm not sure if I like it that much, but I think it follows perfectly from 5x17, if that makes sense.

See, throughout, but especially in the first part, SA plays Oliver as a rape victim, and that fits so perfectly with what Chase did to him - he took away Oliver's power and strength, and violated him emotionally and physically.

That first scene, in the lair, Oliver can't look anyone in the eyes - he can't even finish a sentence with Felicity, and begs her to leave - I understood it as not wanting her to see him like this. Also, that's why she won't hack into the lair's security, even though she probably could do it in her sleep. Oliver needs to feel safe somewhere.

As an aside, I also noticed that Felicity is the only one in that first scene who is worried about Oliver, and how bad his injuries are; even with Diggle, it takes him a while to move beyond "let's make the bastard pay" towards "I'm not leaving you", because the latter is what Oliver needs to hear.

I'm ignoring anything with Susan.

I'm also glad that we're finally done with the Bratva as best buddies idea, though I could have done without the burning off of Oliver's tattoo in the last episode to prepare us for that. But seriously, I'd so had enough of good old uncle Anatoli and his Bratva buddies. See, Chase is evil, but he's evil in a comics character way. So he can be as evil as he likes, and no-one's ever trying to convince us that he's got a heart of gold. And the evil he does is over-the-top, where does he get all his resources, how is he good at everything, sort of evil. Whereas the Bratva is a real-world thing, and the evil done by them is real world evil. Enough with the romanticizing of organized crime.

I'm not faulting Oliver for trying use them to deal with Chase, though. He feels so completely powerless and alone in this episode that it's perfectly understandable that in his lashing out he's going to use anything he has available. Why doesn't he use his team? Because he feels dirty and unworthy of them.

At least by the end of the episode, he's been brought to realise that he is worthy of them, that Chase didn't take everything away from him.

My problem is that I like Anatoly so much as a character. He knows who he is and doesn't spend a lot of time obsessing over it. Chase is a boring Sebastian Blood retread. His father may have been one of the most deserving victims of Oliver's arrow. There are major issues with organized crime, but Russia is so disorganized in general, being a gangster there seems like a reaction to a government full of strongmen and oligarchs. At least the real world Bratva changes up the replays of the same Oliver vs. revenge-fueled megalomanic arcs of the last 4 seasons.

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Hellooooo, POLITICAL SUBTEXT Alert!

Hacking, hackers and those 'evil' Russians who all of the sudden were tolerable, the occasional ally now must be vanquished. oooooo

And Oliver is screwing over his old pal. He should've offered to get him or his men citizenship, immunity or go back with them to get them straight.

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Oliver wouldn't have the authority to offer citizenship or immunity.  Plus the Bratva is a criminal organization, not a political regime.  They chose to join.  Why would they want to go straight?

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On 3/30/2017 at 10:08 AM, statsgirl said:

Chase's father raised the price of an existing drug necessary to cure a disease.

Yes, because Clayborne was the one who deliberately infected people with said disease then jacked up the price to make more money off of something that was life and death. Clayborne committed outright murder of those too poor to pay for his drug and then intended to profit off of the ones who could actually pay to survive his act of bioterrorism.

On 3/30/2017 at 10:43 AM, Bats27 said:

So Oliver...how does using your crusade as an excuse for murder track with the years where you didn't kill people or actually retired to the suburbs? Or is he just talking about year one as The Hood, which somehow negates his character development and his progression as a hero? Is he attributing all the times he broke his code (Vertigo, Ra's, Darhk) as just relapsing on his addiction to murder, despite how far apart they were and the circumstances regarding them?
 

It doesn't track, which is the problem. Much of the plot of this season relies upon the writers outright retconning Oliver's whole crusade as the murder spree it never was in order to give Chase and Artemis something to stand on and give Oliver something to angst over... again. The reality is even in season 1 when he was perfectly willing to kill, Oliver used killing only as an absolute last resort, and everybody he did kill made it clear that killing was the only way to stop them, even the mooks were all working for a corrupt security firm or were outright criminals. Besides, in all likelihood very few mooks actually died from the Hood, an arrow isn't actually all that lethal unless it hits something vital, it's main danger comes from infections and as long as it's not pulled out bleeding out is rarely an issue.

However in this season the writers are trying to shove in this whole "Oliver is a mass murdering monster" storyline that directly contradicts everything about Oliver in every season before, to the point that they are using the flashbacks themselves to try and establish that retroactively. Bringing in the Bratva to assassinate someone like Oliver did this episode is something that even at his lowest Oliver would never have so much as considered, but as others have mentioned the writers have been much more interested in writing the characters to fit the plot rather than the plot to fit the characters this season.

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On 4/7/2017 at 3:01 PM, BkWurm1 said:

Oliver wouldn't have the authority to offer citizenship or immunity.  Plus the Bratva is a criminal organization, not a political regime.  They chose to join.  Why would they want to go straight?

Being a mayor he could use political connections to expedite a visa or asylum at least. He could also use pull to have the current DA drop or minimize charges. Yes citizenship would be down the road but he could help make them legal in the US.

Legal residency and living in the west would be a step up for many regardless of their status in Russia.

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11 minutes ago, misstwpherecool said:

Being a mayor he could use political connections to expedite a visa or asylum at least. He could also use pull to have the current DA drop or minimize charges. Yes citizenship would be down the road but he could help make them legal in the US.

Legal residency and living in the west would be a step up for many regardless of their status in Russia.

No mayor of a struggling city rife with vigilantes has that much political capital, much less one who was just nearly impeached. 

Edited by Hiveminder
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6 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

No mayor of a struggling city rife with vigilantes has that much political capital, much less one who was just nearly impeached. 

Politics is about paying off or dealing for future favors. He wouldn't need a high ranking federal government or immigration official. Many political favors are series of favors and/or deals with several people that don't even know each other. He would be dealing with a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy etc.  Throw in Argus Oliver could deal.

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On 4/14/2017 at 4:43 PM, misstwpherecool said:

Politics is about paying off or dealing for future favors. He wouldn't need a high ranking federal government or immigration official. Many political favors are series of favors and/or deals with several people that don't even know each other. He would be dealing with a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy etc.  Throw in Argus Oliver could deal.

Obviously we see the situations very differently.

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Why would offering these guys US citizenship even help? Anatoly is in charge of the entire Bratva. If he and a couple of his guys want to move to the US, I'm sure they can swing it somehow. Besides, I doubt many guys who join the Bratva are itching to go straight. 

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It was on again tonight so I re-watched I figure it's safe now.  And Oliver broke up with Susan, how could I not like that?

There are a lot of good Diggle/Oliver scenes in this episode.  Maybe  even better than the ones with the repercussions of Diggle killing Andy.  But in spite of the show's trope, I still find myself on Oliver's side of getting rid of Chase.  If Diggle hadn't stopped it, the island wouldn't have blown up.

Anatoly wants to make an opioid that is very addictive.  I'm opposed, of course.  But considering how many people die from Fentanyl, maybe that would be the safer option.

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Between 517 and 518, an AU superhero version of Felicity appeared on Legends 216. Therefore, I'm posting my transcriptions from that Legends episode as well as this episode...

DC's Legends of Tomorrow 216 (Doomworld) – Superhero Felicity is captured and killed in the Legion of Doom’s alternate reality world:
(In Star City 2017, a green hooded figure is being chased at night through the streets. The pursuers are Sara and Amaya. They finally corner and fight the person, and then knock the person down the stairs. They pull her head up and it's a masked Felicity.)
Amaya: "The Mayor would like a word... Ms. Smoak."
Felicity: "Then maybe he should've come here himself instead of sending the bimbo brigade."
Sara: "Rude!"
(Amaya pistol whips Felicity and knocks her out.)
*  *  *
(We're now in Mayor Damien Darhk's office at City Hall, where Felicity is unmasked and bound to a chair.)
Darhk: "Well done, ladies. Star City owes you a debt of gratitude."
Amaya: "Just doing our job, Mr. Mayor."
Darhk: "Yes, but you do it so well and with such style. And you've done a bang-up job dealing with my pest problem, though that term may be giving you vigilantes a little too much credit. Even a cockroach knows to pack up and head out of Dodge."
Felicity (defiantly): "Star City is my home. I will never stop fighting."
Darhk: "Sure you will. Kill her."
(Sara breaks Felicity's neck. Felicity falls to the ground dead.)
Darhk: "Hmph. Get rid of that... Oh! But I will take this mask. So I can add it to my collection."
(He walks over to a glass trophy case containing Ragman's hood, Green Arrow's mask, Wild Dog's hockey mask, Vigilante's mask, Black Canary's mask, The Flash's cowl, and Spartan's helmet.)
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518 (Disbanded) – No Oliver Queen voiceover intro.

518 (Disbanded) – Picking up from the end of 517, Diggle, Felicity and Curtis talk to Oliver at the Arrow Bunker:
Diggle: "Oliver, what happened?"
Curtis: "Yeah, what did you mean by ‘shutting this all down’?"
Felicity (carefully approaching Oliver): “Oliver, I really think you should be checked out by an actual doctor."
Oliver: "The only thing I need is for all of you is to go home."
Diggle: "Oliver, we're not going anywhere."
Oliver: "Not a suggestion, John."
Curtis: "Don't you think you at least owe us an explanation?"
Oliver: "The explanation is simple. Chase is right. Everyone that is down here, uh, around me... (Shakes his head) well, they either suffer or they die."
Felicity: "Oliver, I can't imagine what you've just been put through, but you have to know that Chase is wrong."
Oliver: "I don't think that he is, and I can't - (Looks briefly at her and then away) - Will you just go?"
Diggle: "Can, uh, the two of you give us the room?"
(Felicity and Curtis leave)
Diggle: "It's just you and me now, Oliver. Now you don't have to talk to me if you don't want to, but I don't think you should be alone."
Oliver: "I think I should. John, I want you to leave." (Walks away)

518 (Disbanded) – Rene and Dinah learn of Oliver's decision from Felicity and Curtis at Felicity's loft:
Rene: "He said all that?"
Felicity: "I've never seen him so broken, and I've seen him at his lowest."
Dinah: "Did he say what Chase did to him?"
Curtis: "Nope. Don't want to know. I already have more than enough nightmare fuel from this job to last me awhile, so -"
Rene: "Let's back up a second. He said the team's over? Like we're just supposed to sit back and let Chase run wild?"
Diggle (entering): "Nobody's sitting around, Rene. Look, Oliver's in a bad place right now, but he will get it together. I don't have to remind you - any of you - how strong he is."
Felicity: "What did Thea say?"
Diggle: "She agreed. He just needs time to get his head right. She says she'll contact him once we update her."
Felicity: "I don't know. This time it just seems different."
Diggle: "He will bounce back, Felicity. He will. Until then, we are the city's last line of defense."
Rene: “Except our gear’s back at the bunker."
Felicity: "And Oliver reprogrammed all the security protocols."
Diggle: "Lyla will loan us gear from A.R.G.U.S."
Dinah: "What about Chase? He's still out there."
Diggle: "We'll just have to remain alert. We're not just an anti-Prometheus team. There are a lot of people in this city who need saving."
Felicity: "I'm on Chase. You guys just focus on protecting the city. Feel free to use my apartment as your new secret lair." (Leaves)
Dinah: "Where's she going?"
Oliver: "No place good."

518 (Disbanded) – Felicity is working on a computer at Helix's base of operations:
Felicity: "Hey, I finished that worm. I would've been a lot faster if I had known what tang system I was embedding that back door into, but -"
Alena: "Your timing is perfect. I just finished the compilation. This is all that we found on your target from all available video sources - cell phones, traffic cams, security footage." 
(A multitude of shots of Adrian Chase appear on the big screen wall monitors.)
Felicity: "Please promise me you're never going to make a Felicity version of this. The world doesn't need to know how often I'm at the wine shop. (They laugh) I guess it's too much to hope that Chase took off his mask on camera."
Alena: "Actually, he did."
Felicity: "Yeah, figured he would. Wait, what?!"
(Alena shows her a screen shot of Prometheus taking off his mask, but the face is blurred by pixelation.)
Felicity: "Why is his face all pixelated?"
Alena: "We're assuming he used some optic scrambling."
Felicity: "He has tech that prevents the camera from capturing his image?"
Alena: "Like those scarves that celebrities use to frustrate paparazzi. But here's the thing. If he's using a piece of tech -"
Alena and Felicity (simultaneously): "We can reverse engineer it."
Felicity: "We can produce video that Chase is Prometheus. That's game over for him."
Alena: "Let's get started."

518 (Disbanded) – Oliver breaks up with Susan Williams:
(Oliver is in his mayoral office, when Susan enters.)
Susan: "Hey. They told me you were back. I had to see you." (Hugs him)
Oliver: "Oh. I'm so sorry."
Susan: "This wasn't you, Oliver. It was him."
Oliver: "Well, I - I created him. And I know that that might sound weird, but, uh, this happened to you because of me."
Susan: "Don't let him do this to you. Don't let that bastard inside your head. I gave the police a statement about him."
Oliver: "But they didn't believe you because he probably had an ironclad alibi, right?"
Susan: "Yes. But if you corroborate my statement -?"
Oliver: "I can't."
Susan: "I know, it - it would probably mean outing yourself as the Green Arrow, but -"
Oliver: "It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the fact that Chase would have planned for that, just like he has planned for everything else. My only chance is - well, I have to do something that he hasn't planned for."
Susan: "Well, like what?"
Oliver: "Listen, Susan, I know that we never got a chance to resolve things. I can't be with you. My apologies if that's presumptuous." (Walks back to his desk)
Susan (protesting): "Oliver -"
Oliver: "This is not how - this is not how I wanted my life to - to touch yours. I should have known better, and for that, I really, truly am sorry."
(Susan looks at him, nods sadly and then leaves his office.)

518 (Disbanded) – Felicity is again working on a computer at Helix's base of operations:
Felicity: "Adrian Chase, 'winter is here.'"
Alena: "It's spring."
Felicity: "We're going to talk about you not watching Game of Thrones. But first, look at this? (Points to screen) The pixelation pattern was consistent with that of an optic scrambler that Kord Industries is planning on bringing to market in the next six months."
Alena: "How does it work?"
Felicity: "It interferes with the camera's digital conversion circuit."
Alena: "That's good. That means we can use the algorithm to remove the distortion from the remaining image."
Felicity: "Yes. But to do that, I would need physical access to Chase's scrambler."
Alena: "I'm sure he would be happy to help. Sounds like a super accommodating guy."
Felicity: "Great."

518 (Disbanded) – Diggle confronts Oliver about bringing Anatoly to Star City to kill Adrian Chase:
Diggle: “Oliver, have you brought Anatoly Knyazev to Star City?”
Oliver: “Yes, I did. And he just told me that his operation was nearly compromised by my team. I said, ‘that's impossible. The team no longer exists.’" 
Diggle: “The hell it doesn't!”
Oliver: “When I told you to stand down, I meant it. Anatoly is here for a reason.”
Diggle: “To steal drugs!”
Oliver: “I had to give him that to get what I wanted. He's here to kill Adrian Chase.”
Diggle: “Oliver. We don't hire criminals and pay them with diabetes drugs.”
Oliver: “Chase has killed innocent people in this whole sick game he's been playing, trying to get to me. Star City will not be safe until he is in the ground, and there is no price I will not pay to see that happen.”
Diggle: “Even selling your soul?”
Oliver: “Better my soul than yours or Felicity's or Curtis or anyone on the team.”
Diggle: “So you got Anatoly to kill Chase so we wouldn't have to.”
Oliver: “I created Prometheus, John. I created this whole thing. Chase's death should be on my conscience, not yours.”
Diggle: “What the hell did Chase do to you, man, to convince you to think that any of this is okay? This is a mistake, Oliver, a mistake that you will not be able to come back from. And I'm not gonna let you make it.”
Oliver: “Well, I'm not gonna let you get hurt. And so here we are.”
Diggle: “Felicity was right. Prometheus is trying to convince you that you are responsible for everything bad that's happened to people. Oliver, I swear that's just a bunch of crap.”
Oliver: “Tell that to Laurel. Tell that to… Tommy. Tell that to my mother. Tell that to Billy Malone. Maybe tell it to Thea. She's so damaged that she had to leave town. This is not post-traumatic stress, John. This is a truth that I was keeping myself from seeing, and I am no longer doing that. Anatoly and his men will kill Adrian Chase. That is the solution. The team is done. So I'm telling you. I'm not asking you. I'm telling you for the last time, stand down.”

518 (Disbanded) – Team Arrowless is hanging out in Felicity's loft, in disbelief at Oliver bringing the Bratva to Star City:
Curtis: "I don't believe it."
Felicity: "Oliver can't go after Chase himself. So he finds guys who can?"
Rene: "He let them steal from a company that was barely hanging on. Oliver put hundreds of jobs on the line. And I know he knows that because I was in the same briefing."
Dinah: "Yeah, speaking of which, why haven't you gone back into City Hall?"
Diggle: "Because Lance banned him until Chase is taken off the board. Something to do with Rene threatening to pop a cap in his ass."
Curtis: "What about breaking up the team?"
Diggle (sighing): "Prometheus is in Oliver's head, Curtis, like I've never seen him before. (To Felicity, who's been rushing around the loft gathering up her stuff) Hey! Can we talk in private?"
Felicity (glancing at her watch): "Um... yeah." (Points upstairs)
Diggle: "Yeah." (Goes upstairs with her)
(Curtis peeks at Felicity's open laptop.)
Diggle: "Hey. You and I need to talk some sense into Oliver before he does something that he's going to regret."
Felicity: "I'm not stopping you."
Diggle: "Felicity, I know you're going full throttle with this Helix. But it has to be both of us. We have to present a united front so we have the best chance of getting through to him."
Felicity: "Well, maybe we shouldn't."
Diggle: "What do you mean?"
Felicity: "The team has been after Chase for months and he's always been one step ahead of us. If Oliver thinks that the Bratva is our best chance of getting to him, then maybe we should stay out of his way." (Leaves)

518 (Disbanded) – Diggle again argues with Oliver:
(Oliver and Anatoly are in the Arrow Bunker, when Diggle enters.)
Oliver: “You shouldn't be here, John.”
Diggle: “You should've known that Curtis would hack the locks, Oliver. I didn't think I could be more disappointed. I guess I was wrong.”
Anatoly: “I'll let you have room.” (Leaves)
Oliver: “I'm not gonna keep having the same conversation.”
Diggle: “That's too bad 'cause I dedicated five years of my life to your crusade. So I'm the one that gets to say if I need protecting, not you.”
Oliver: “I'm not gonna have your death on my conscience.”
Diggle: “Oliver, don't talk to me about your conscience, not when you get back in bed with the Bratva. This isn't you, man. The Oliver I know would never let a group of dangerous criminals crawl into his city, let them steal medicine.”
Oliver: “You don't know what kind of man I am.”
Diggle: “What?! What the hell did Chase do to you, Oliver? Whatever it was, he - he messed with your head in a way I didn't think was possible. Look at me, man. I could help you. I'm your brother.”
Oliver: “You don't want me as a brother.”
Diggle: “What does that mean?”
Oliver: “Chase showed me the truth about myself. You signed on for a crusade that turned out to be an outlet. It was an excuse for me to murder people.”
Diggle: “Oliver, please.”
Oliver: “I put on a hood, and I created a persona because, John, somewhere along the way, something in me broke. Something is sick inside of me. The crusade - all of this - the foundation of it is a lie. So I disbanded the team because I won't sit by and watch all of you participate in my murder spree. I am beyond redemption. You and the team will be fine if… you stay away from me, you stay away from this, you stay away from Chase, and you allow the Bratva to do their job. Let my crusade die.”

518 (Disbanded) – Oliver punches Diggle, and Diggle tells him that they will never be done with each other:
Oliver: “Chase is being transferred into federal protection, which means that the Bratva can't get to him.”
Diggle: “You're welcome.”
(Oliver punches Diggle in the jaw.)
Diggle: “Hmm, feel better?”
Oliver: “No.”
Diggle: “We're not done, Oliver. You and me, we're never gonna be done. Do you understand that? Listen, man, you can tell me that you're a serial killer, that you're crazy, or you're whatever Chase has shoved into your head, but I'm not believing any of that, even if you do. And that's because I know the kind of man you are, Oliver. The good, the bad, and the ugly. I know. And you don't need to punish yourself or isolate yourself, but what you need to do is stop pushing me away! Because I'm not going anywhere, Oliver! Do you get that?”
Oliver: “What do you want me to do, John? I've told you what I am, who I am… and even if you don't believe it, I do. I do. So I don't know where that leaves us.”
Diggle: “It leaves us right back at Langham, Oliver. Do you remember that? I killed my brother, Oliver. And I was gonna let myself rot in prison for what I did. But you told me to atone for what I did as Spartan. And if that's true for me, it is 100 times truer for the Green Arrow. You don't get to just walk away from this, man. The hood is who you are. You don't think you deserve it? Fine. Work to become the man who does.”
Oliver: “I don't know how.”
Diggle: “You just ask for help. You don't have to do this alone, Oliver.”

518 (Disbanded) – Curtis tracks Felicity to Helix's base of operations and hands her Chase's optic scrambler:
Felicity: "I have an idea. We hack WITSEC. Can we find out what town Chase is going to? And then we get hired as waitresses at the inevitably folksy diner. We drug his coffee. We steal the scrambler."
Alena: "You know how I know I'm exhausted? That plan actually sounds plausible."
Felicity: "Free pie. For life. That's all I'm saying."
Alena: "Um-hmm."
Felicity: "Free pie."
Unidentified Helix Guy: "Felicity."
Felicity: "Yeah."
Unidentified Helix Guy (coming down the stairs with Curtis): "Do you know this guy?"
Felicity: "Curtis?"
Alena: "You told him about our operation?"
Felicity: "No. I turned off the GPS on my phone. How did you -? You son of a bitch. Those damn -"
Curtis: "Tracking nanites. Yep. Blueberries weren't the only surprise in those pancakes."
Felicity: "I knew they were funky."
Curtis: "Um. Can we talk in private?"
Felicity: "Uh... no."
Curtis: "Fine. Then you don't get to ask me any questions about how I got this."
Felicity: "Is that -?"
Curtis: "Chase's optic scrambler. Sure is."
Felicity: "How did you know we were looking for it."
Curtis: "I might have taken a peek at your IRC window. I guess you could say that I hacked the hackers. Whoa!"
(Felicity takes optic scrambler and works at computer.)
Curtis: "What?"
Felicity: "The pixelation algorithm's encrypted. I should've known it would be encrypted, but it's encrypted."
Alena: "How long will it take you to break the encryption?"
Felicity: "If my math is right - 3.1610 to the 18th, E to the 6, 75 teraflops... 13 months."
Alena: "Well, I know someone who can break it faster. Kord Industries. I mean, they set the encryption. They can break it."
Curtis: "I don't think that Kord is gonna help us hack their stolen tech."
Alena: "That's why you'll have to break in. Shouldn't be too hard for Overwatch and Mr. Terrific, who could pull off a heist at Kord."
Curtis: "You told them about our operation?"
Felicity: "I didn't! How did you -?"
Alena: "Come on, Felicity. Did you think we didn't know?"
Unidentified Helix Guy: "It took me eight minutes. Three for this guy."
Curtis: "These hackers are mean."
Felicity: "Deal with it. We have to deal with this."

518 (Disbanded) – Oliver tells Anatoly that their deal is off and asks his team for help instead: 
Oliver: “Thanks for meeting.”
Anatoly: “I'm only here for you to explain why team you disbanded keeps interfering with business.”
Oliver: “Because they don't give up. They convinced me not to. Anatoly, I'm sorry, but you need to tell your men to stand down. Our deal's off.”
Anatoly: “No.”
Oliver: “Excuse me?”
Anatoly: “You want Chase to keep breathing? Fine. But I'm not leaving Star City, not till I get what I came for. You know as well as I do, once there is deal, it is forever.”
Oliver: “I understand how the Bratva works. I - I am asking you this as a friend.”
Anatoly: “Yes. And I am telling you as friend, if you interfere with my operation, no favor exists that can repair break between you and I. You either Bratva brother or you Bratva enemy.”
*  *  *
Oliver: "The Bratva aren't backing down, which means I have to stop them. John has convinced me not to do it alone. I wanted to shut all of this down because I was afraid. I was afraid that asking you to kill Chase would corrupt you more than - more than I already have. To me, the – the - the Bratva was the best option, but John insists that as a team, we can find another way to bring Chase to justice. You've put your faith in me, and I'm putting my faith in you now. Because once - once we handle the Bratva, I - I need your help to prove that John is right and Chase is wrong.”
Rene: “It should be easy, considering Prometheus is all the way wrong, Hoss.”
Dinah: “I think what Rene is trying to say is, that it's not all on your shoulders. We're here for you, Oliver.”
Oliver: “Okay. Suit up.”

518 (Disbanded) – Felicity and Curtis break into Kord Industries:
(Felicity and Curtis approach the side door of Kord Industries. Felicity hacks the security box next to the door.)
Felicity: "Okay, I'm in."
Curtis: "CCTV is compromised."
*  *  *
(Curtis and Felicity run into an elderly security guard.)
Curtis: "I was hoping I wouldn't have to punch anybody."
*  *  *
Felicity: "Nope." (Injects security guard with tranq needle)
*  *  *
(Felicity and Curtis find what they need at Kord Industries, using a T-sphere.)
Felicity: "Hand me your tablet."
Curtis: "You brought the scrambler here?"
Felicity: "I wasn't going to wait to see if we could break the encryption."

518 (Disbanded) – Team Arrow meets to celebrate having video of Prometheus unmasking to show Adrian Chase's face:
(Felicity and Curtis enter the Arrow Bunker)
Diggle: "Did you get it?"
Curtis: "Oh, yeah."
(Video of Prometheus taking off his hood to reveal Chase's face is shown on the wall monitor.)
Oliver: "That is what we needed! Something that he couldn't plan for. (Looks at Felicity) You." (She smiles at him)
Dinah: "Please let me be the one to walk this into the S.C.P.D."
Curtis: "Knock yourself out."
Felicity: "And I'm going to put it on Youtube. There won't be anywhere that son of a bitch can run."
Curtis: "Does this mean we're officially back in business?"
Oliver: "Aside from a few minor changes... yeah." 
(He flips the switch on the panel to show six glass cases housing the team's costumes, except for the Green Arrow suit.)
Rene: "The line-up could use a little more green, hoss."
Oliver: "I'm not quite there yet. I'm thinking that, with this team behind me, it'll be sooner rather than later."

518 (Disbanded) - The bromance between Oliver and Anatoly is over:
Oliver: “You have two minutes, and then I’m calling the S.C.P.D.”
Anatoly: “Oliver Queen, afraid to be with Bratva gangster. How far you have fallen.”
Oliver: “Anatoly, you didn't bring me here to insult me.”
Anatoly: “No. I give you friendly tip. I go back to Russia tonight but leave Star City a little present - my best men.”
Oliver: “Your best men were arrested.”
Anatoly: “Already out on bail. I hear they cannot wait to get revenge on vigilantes that put them away.”
Oliver: “This is between you and me. No one else.”
Anatoly: “’No one else’? You betrayed every man in Bratva. You betrayed Russian community. You even worked against old team. When I see this, I think I still trust him anyway. What a fool I was.”
Oliver: “No. I'm the fool. Because I thought that our friendship - everything that we have been through together-- actually meant something to you. The person that I knew would never betray a friend, would never threaten innocent people - over what? A payday. When I left Russia, I was convinced that you could lead the Bratva, that you could set them on a better path. And now look at you. You're no better than Gregor.”
Anatoly: “I told you, I was worried about what I would become without your help. I did what I had to do to keep Bratva together and to stay alive. I became what I had to become. You asked why I changed. That is it.” (Walks away)

518 (Disbanded) – Adrian Chase escapes from custody after killing the U.S Marshals guarding him:
Quentin: “This video has been authenticated by three different experts.”
Dinah: “It hasn’t been doctored or altered in any way. That is raw footage.”
Female Cop: “Chase is in the protective custody of the U. S. Marshals.”
Quentin: “Yeah. Well, somebody better give them a call and place that son of a bitch under arrest.”
(Cut to safe house where Chase is being guarded by two U.S. Marshals. He is writing something when one marshal’s phone beeps. Chase throws his pen into the marshal’s eye. He then strangles the other marshal.)
(Cut to a bloodied Chase driving away in a car, while The Rascals’ “It’s a Beautiful Morning” song plays on the radio. We hear police sirens in the background.)

Edited by tv echo
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