S01.E07: You Get What You Need

[annlaw78]

3 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

I totally missed this. What makes you draw this conclusion?

Just sounded like something an engineering-type person would say.  I can't imagine it came from a friend of hers or "CHasm" Nathan.  

[susannot]

Really enjoyed Nathan's singing.  I know it was a ringer, but it was a good ringer.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Nicole Kidman, wow. Brava.

ASkars in that leather suit tho.

[Blissfool]

1 hour ago, Kell said:

 

I did keep thinking "My god, stop with all the singing, we only have an hour, people!!!"  :D

Me too. But at the same time i was loving the performances. 

[Penman61]

4 minutes ago, annlaw78 said:

Just sounded like something an engineering-type person would say.  I can't imagine it came from a friend of hers or "CHasm" Nathan.  

Abby also said that someone "not Bonnie" had talked her out of the project.  Ed seems likely, no?

Edited April 3, 2017 by Penman61

[annlaw78]

5 minutes ago, Xantar said:

Why exactly has that yellow police tape been on those stairs this while time? Did they ever actually say? 

I think I saw in one if the scenes of Madeline stomping up the stairs that there was some sort of crumbled spot on the steps

[Bitsy]

1 minute ago, Xantar said:

 Up until now, the story of Celeste and Perry has been riveting because it seemed so real and believable. Some of us actually bought it when Perry seemed remorseful at the couples counseling session. 

But now he doesn't have some kind of twisted love for his wife in his own mind. It turns out he's a rapist who cheats on her too. It's such a shame. 

I did not buy Perry's remorse during therapy at all (and neither did the therapist).  I saw it as pure manipulation.  He made himself seem vulnerable and in need of sympathy.  And then he turned it around on Celeste and said he feels insecure because she told him she didn't love him.  (Actually, what she told him was that she would leave him if he touched her like that again, and it was about 5 seconds after he'd finished choking her.)  

And I thought that manipulativeness was very, very realistic.

I don't think it's unrealistic that he also acted out violence on a one-night stand.  What was unrealistic was the whopper of a coincidence of that that woman wound up becoming his wife's best friend, but hey, it's a mystery and it needed a twist ending.

[Atlanta]

Bummed they didn't show the women covering for Bonnie. That was a HUGE missed opportunity, but they would rather have live band karaoke and Maddy as a cheater (so OOC). The covering for Bonnie was a big sisterhood moment.

[Teddybear]

Quote

 I did have a moment when Jane figured out Perry was the rapist when she heard his voice, though I knew it had to be him -- and the girls seemed to realize it from her reaction.

But how could they possibly?  Who would have ever thought that he could be the rapist/ Ziggy's dad?  I wondered this too, if the women actually knew based on Jane's reaction upon seeing him.

I actually teared up when Celeste talked to Max and said whatever you did at school, it's OK, and they just hugged.  I don't even have kids but something about that scene was so powerful!  Nicole was amazing in this episode in particular.  The fear in her eyes when Perry said the property manager called.  Chilling.

I'm really going to miss this show. 

[vixenbynight]

15 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Yep and when Celeste ran into that fundraiser, you can see her eyes darting around for a familiar face to finally tell what was going on. I was afraid that Perry was about the drive that car right off the road committing a murder/suicide. 

Well, Perry was never going to let Celeste out of the locked car. The surprise appearance of Reneta and Gordon helped her to escape from Perry at that time.

Then we had Celeste making sure that she was never alone with Perry for too long in public. I liked that Bonnie was the one that noticed those two struggling at the event. She could sense that something was not right and followed them. Which I compared to all the other women in the crowed hovering over Perry, because they found him attractive and hot in his costume.

[mochamajesty]

What does Perry do for a living  that takes him to Vienna and Hawaii on "business"?

Laughing at the people protesting because Perry is too evil. Sometimes a dick is just a dick.

[susannot]

So Perry thought he could fight off 5 women and still brutalize and kill his wife.  There is no doubt in my mind that he was trying to, and would have, killed Celeste in front of witnesses.  It is possible that he thought those witnesses were worthless, because they were women.  Or it is just that he was insane with rage.

[Bitsy]

1 minute ago, Teddybear said:

I actually teared up when Celeste talked to Max and said whatever you did at school, it's OK, and they just hugged.  I don't even have kids but something about that scene was so powerful!  Nicole was amazing in this episode in particular.  The fear in her eyes when Perry said the property manager called.  Chilling.

I'm really going to miss this show. 

+1.  I was really touched by Celeste telling Max not to worry, that the tooth fairy would still come for him and he's a good boy.  I've been creeped out all along by how much the twins resemble Alexander Skarsgard.  It felt too real.

[Bunbun77]

1 hour ago, Cardie said:

So, Miss Zen Peace and Love knows when you have to shove evil down the stairs! That's the one thing I didn't guess was coming but I found the finale very satisfying, as the women's petty squabbles turn to unity and sisterhood when they all confront the true monstrosity of Perry.  Well done, BLL.

I thought it was interesting it turned out to be Bonnie who pushed Perry. Especially since earlier in the episode Jane told Celeste that Ziggy had told her Max had pushed Sky down the stairs and had been acting aggressively towards her.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Xantar said:

Why exactly has that yellow police tape been on those stairs this while time? Did they ever actually say? 

I didn't like Perry turning out to be the rapist but not because it was too many coincidences. I'm fine with coincidences. But making him Jane's rapist turns a somewhat nuanced domestic violence story into a black and white villain story. Up until now, the story of Celeste and Perry has been riveting because it seemed so real and believable. Some of us actually bought it when Perry seemed remorseful at the couples counseling session. 

But now he doesn't have some kind of twisted love for his wife in his own mind. It turns out he's a rapist who cheats on her too. It's such a shame. 

I will say though that if this was the story they had to tell because that's what happened in the book, it was filmed and acted extremely well. The last fifteen minutes or so is almost completely free of dialogue, but we can tell exactly what happened. The moment when Jane saw Perry was particularly well done. I loved how Reese Witherspoon and Nicole Kidman played their horrified glances at each other as they realized what was going on. 

I also don't understand why they felt they had to cover up what happened. But maybe that's just what the title means: to say that he fell by accident is really a little lie. And a big one. 

It was caution tape and there was a sign at the bottom in one scene that said "Stairs closed for repairs" or something, and that landing in the center with rebar sticking up.  

I was spoiled but still when Jane recognized Perry was the only time in the show I choked up a little.  I never felt tense during the Wright's fights.  

5 minutes ago, susannot said:

Really enjoyed Nathan's singing.  I know it was a ringer, but it was a good ringer.

Oh, me too.  Whoever it was sounded like Don Mclean.

I liked the finale but the fight scene at the end was kind of OTT.  Perry lashing out at ALL the women, cut with quick shots of the ocean (there's that violence metaphor again).  

[vixenbynight]

16 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

I totally missed this. What makes you draw this conclusion?

I think it was Ed, due to him announcing that Abby hadn't launched the site and that he is a really great step-father to her. She does value what he and Bonnie say to her.

[CleoCaesar]

15 minutes ago, Xantar said:

But making him Jane's rapist turns a somewhat nuanced domestic violence story into a black and white villain story.

I...I mean a guy beating his wife to a pulp is automatically a clear-cut villain in my mind.

Perry was manipulating his wife (and the therapist) during the therapy session by crying crocodile tears and pouting about how unloved he felt so that Celeste would start comforting him.

The nuance in the domestic violence storyline came from Celeste's simultaneous fear and love for the man, and the reasons why such a beautiful, smart, successful woman would stay with a violent loser like that.

[formerlyfreedom]

16 minutes ago, Xantar said:

Why exactly has that yellow police tape been on those stairs this while time? Did they ever actually say? 

I viewed the original yellow tape as the 'CAUTION' tape that you see around construction sites, and that sort of thing. The steps had some sort of problem, and people were supposed to avoid them.

[Bitsy]

3 minutes ago, susannot said:

So Perry thought he could fight off 5 women and still brutalize and kill his wife.  There is no doubt in my mind that he was trying to, and would have, killed Celeste in front of witnesses.  It is possible that he thought those witnesses were worthless, because they were women.  Or it is just that he was insane with rage.

I think he felt he had nothing left to lose and probably wanted to kill Celeste and himself (but probably never would have gotten around to the killing himself part).

[Irlandesa]

49 minutes ago, nara said:

Felt a little sorry for Renata's husband -- she clearly did not keep him in the loop regarding discussion with Jane.

I didn't feel sorry for her husband at all.  Renata can take care of herself and only she can get a restraining order so him threatening to do it on her behalf struck me as controlling.

46 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

I guess it was left to us to infer that maybe Bonnie had a history with being a victim of domestic violence during childhood or maybe in a previous relationship. Maybe that's why she lives a life of calm/zen now.  But I didn't infer that, I had to read the summary posted here and think, oh. Because I just wasn't given enough clues to come to that conclusion, other than her just being outraged/horrified at Perry's behavior. I guess I could have gotten there by questioning why she just didn't run back for help instead of charging in by herself, that maybe she did that because it was personal. But the show just didn't devote enough time to Bonnie's character for me to think about all that.

I haven't read the book but I did reach the conclusion that there might be something in Bonnie's past related to domestic violence solely based on the show.  It wasn't that she pushed Perry.  I could see her being inspired to do that just to help out.  But her reaction, the way she touched her neck--that's when I began to wonder if she has personal experience.  Zoe Kravitz really hit it out of the park for me in the last ten minutes of the show with wordless acting.

I don't need a definitive answer on her past, though.  We've talked a lot about how Celeste has hidden what is happening at home from her friends but we've seen every step of her story.  And a lot of the effects Jane's rape has had on her.  Bonnie could possibly represent what it feels like to not know about a person's past. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Irlandesa

[Atlanta]

Why on earth was a fundraiser held at a place that's had caution tape on its front steps? That's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Celeste and Renata would nix that ASAP.

[Stella]

14 minutes ago, susannot said:

Really enjoyed Nathan's singing.  I know it was a ringer, but it was a good ringer.

Yes both guys sounded great!

From Vulture:

Quote

the cover of “The Wonder of You,” sung by Ed, is credited to Conor O’Brien, and “How’s the World Treating You,” sung by Madeline’s first husband Nathan (James Tupper), is credited to Daniel Agee.

[annlaw78]

2 minutes ago, susannot said:

So Perry thought he could fight off 5 women and still brutalize and kill his wife.  There is no doubt in my mind that he was trying to, and would have, killed Celeste in front of witnesses.  It is possible that he thought those witnesses were worthless, because they were women.  Or it is just that he was insane with rage.

I have to think insane with rage.  I mean, obviously Renata Klein, CEO of GoogleYahooAmazonApple is not worthless or inconsequential.  The police will listen to her. That's also why it's a bit hoky the women would think they'd have to lie -- they'd have the best attorneys in the Bay Area swarming the police station before you could say "double-broken urethra." It's not even clear Bonnie realized he was standing at the top of the stairs or how close he was, vs. just trying to push him off Celeste.

[vixenbynight]

18 minutes ago, betha said:

Yes, and I appreciate the ending but I thought it odd that Renata brought Amabella when max was there. Just two days ago she thought he would kill her if she told on him.

Well, I think between the time of Perry's funeral to the scene at the beach, all the mothers must of had multiple discussions with ALL of the kids about how they should treat one another.

[humbleopinion]

The caution taped stairs was the back of the property.

The front entrance had the teachers greeting the partiers and torches lit the sidewalk leading towards the event, the stage.

[preeya]

1 hour ago, Kell said:

Well, I'm gonna miss the show -- I'm going to need a new one. lol

Bosch will be on later this month.

[lovinbob]

I have never been so tense watching a show. Despite having read the book--I knew what was coming, and I still was in knots! Well done, show!

One thing I didn't get was all the tension between Ed and Nathan. Was it just to throw us off the scent, of who the killer/victim would actually be? 

I kind of wish Renata had been the actual murderer--it would have fit with her character and would have given her a chance to work off some of her righteous indignation re: Amabella.

Speaking of Amabella, this show reminded me of how much I hate the expression "bullying." It is so overused and misused. Was Amabella being bullied? Maybe ... but she was actually being abused and physically hurt. Bullying seems like the tip of the iceberg of what happened to her. 

Hilarious moment when the principal seemed to get up in the teacher's grill and she was having none of it. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by lovinbob

[Auntie Anxiety]

About the twins and Ziggy being around the same age, I figured that Celeste was pregnant already with twins and Perry wasn't having sex with her because she was higher risk, so he decided he was entitled to cheat. Raping Jane might have come about because he had to do something violent when he got rebuffed and Jane was a good replacement for Celeste at that point. We saw him play the victim time and again.

[Bitsy]

It was probably already at the top of Celeste's to-do list to take the boys to get therapy even before Perry died.  

2 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

About the twins and Ziggy being around the same age, I figured that Celeste was pregnant already with twins and Perry wasn't having sex with her because she was higher risk, so he decided he was entitled to cheat. Raping Jane might have come about because he had to do something violent when he got rebuffed and Jane was a good replacement for Celeste at that point. We saw him play the victim time and again.

Or he was cheating on Celeste from the get-go, including when she was having all of those miscarriages, which may very well have been due to Perry's physical violence.  An abused woman is mostly likely to be killed when she's attempting to leave and when she's pregnant.

[vixenbynight]

13 minutes ago, Teddybear said:

But how could they possibly?  Who would have ever thought that he could be the rapist/ Ziggy's dad?  I wondered this too, if the women actually knew based on Jane's reaction upon seeing him.

I actually teared up when Celeste talked to Max and said whatever you did at school, it's OK, and they just hugged.  I don't even have kids but something about that scene was so powerful!  Nicole was amazing in this episode in particular.  The fear in her eyes when Perry said the property manager called.  Chilling.

I'm really going to miss this show. 

Madeline saw Jane freeze up once she saw Perry. You could see something in her whole body that said, "This is the guy". Once Madeline saw it, she looked towards Celeste in shock. That was before Perry started to attack Celeste and the other women joined in to protect her. Reneta has no idea about Jane's rape, but she was in there throwing punches at Perry to keep him away from Celeste. Even Bonnie didn't stop to question anything. She just saw all these women trying to stop Perry and she reacted.

[walnutqueen]

Way to go, Bonnie!

[Atlanta]

The Ziggy dad reveal became a big 'nada.' The show has had this big brewing subplot of who is his dad? They better have a bonus ep.

[wilnil]

Last week I guessed the homicide would be a group confrontation with Perry as the ultimate victim but got two key details wrong, so the final reveal still had some surprises for me.

I'd thought it was possible that Ed would also end up involved, after they set him up first as angered by bullying and then feeling nearly like a nonentity as he started to believe Madeline merely settled for him. And as this episode went on, I really thought they might be going there. But he and all the other men were of course AWOL when the fatal moment came.

And I'd dismissed Bonnie as too New Age to do anything (other than try to do conflict mediation) if she stumbled onto the confrontation. I wasn't prepared at all for her to see Celeste and Perry and take in the reality of the situation at first glance. Like the reviewer said, that's when you realize that what Bonnie meant by "We've all got baggage" was maybe domestic violence wasn't an unfamiliar situation for her (whether against herself as a child or someone else, say, her mother).

[Bitsy]

2 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

The Ziggy dad reveal became a big 'nada.' The show has had this big brewing subplot of who is his dad? They better have a bonus ep.

Jane to Ziggy:

Good news.  I found your father!  And those kids at school who you don't play with because they threatened to kill your friend, those are your brothers!

Now a little bit of bad news...

[annlaw78]

12 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

The nuance in the domestic violence storyline came from Celeste's simultaneous fear and love for the man, and the reasons why such a beautiful, smart, successful woman would stay with a violent loser like that.

I think there can also be nuance in the etiology and psychology of the abuser.  Not an excuse -- there is no excuse -- but that's not something I think I've ever really seen portrayed.  Abusers aren't necessarily hatched from the Villain Central Casting.  They typically evolve and escalate, as does the abuse they mete out.  I guess Perry is just a multifarious felon. 

[Xantar]

The plot twists were never really the point of this show, I think. Some people guessed early on that Ziggy was the product of rape. And plenty of people guessed that Perry was her rapist and also the dead body. The mystery was really beside the point in a story about motherhood and keeping up with the Joneses (and an amazingly incompetent first grade teacher). 

[madam magpie]

1 hour ago, Teddybear said:

But how could they possibly?  Who would have ever thought that he could be the rapist/ Ziggy's dad?  I wondered this too, if the women actually knew based on Jane's reaction upon seeing him.

Oh, Celeste and Madeline absolutely knew. Jane's reaction was full body horror. Plus, she grabbed Madeline's arm and lurched back in terror when Perry came at them.

There was also a lovely moment in the funeral montage where Celeste cups Jane's face and asks if she's ok. Poor Celeste. The hits just kept coming! (Pun intended.) Holy hell. If I found out my husband had raped an 18-ish year old girl, all while I knew he was a psycho and I'd never tried to lock him up, the guilt would kill me. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by madam magpie

[aemom]

I'd figured out that Perry was the rapist and that Jane would finally see him at the party but I was still on pins and needles the entire episode. I was so scared for Celeste.

That was a well acted series.

[Bebecat]

It was just all too neat for me. And then everyone all cozy at the end. 

Nicole should win any related acting awards, absolutely.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Bebecat

[vixenbynight]

2 minutes ago, wilnil said:

And I'd dismissed Bonnie as too New Age to do anything (other than try to do conflict mediation) if she stumbled onto the confrontation. I wasn't prepared at all for her to see Celeste and Perry and take in the reality of the situation at first glance. Like the reviewer said, that's when you realize that what Bonnie meant by "We've all got baggage" was maybe domestic violence wasn't an unfamiliar situation for her (whether against herself as a child or someone else, say, her mother).

I never dismissed Bonnie, due to her New Ageness/Yoga fibe. I saw Bonnie as this woman (just like Reneta) who was being negatively stigmatized due to how others viewed them. 

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, madam magpie said:

Who was watching them at the end, though?

That was the lady cop, based on the clicking noise her lighter makes

 

1 hour ago, Eliz said:

And not to lawyer it too much, but I don't think they had to cover up what Bonnie did. I think shoving Perry off Celeste when he was in the middle of a vicious attack was probably a perfectly justifiable use of force to defend Celeste, even if it did happen to be at the top of some stairs.

Disclosing the attack would mean making Perry's antics public.  Perhaps Celeste wanted to shield her children (and maybe Ziggy) from finding that their dad was a wife beater and a rapist.

[dippydee]

Nicole Kidman needs all the awards for this role. She was phenomenal.

I'd read the book so I knew what was coming but damn if I wasn't utterly terrified for Celeste when she had to get into the car with Perry to go to the fundraiser. 

[Muffyn]

I enjoyed it from beginning to end.  I could pick nits but I enjoyed the focus on women and relationships without making them all competitive shrews.  There was excellent acting, some that I expected and some that I did not. 

The music was yet again excellent, from the talent show singing to the use of Neil Young's Helpless during the abuse.  That was haunting. 

[VioletMarx]

Were Jane and Celeste dressed in the same Audrey Hepburn outfit? If so, nice touch.

[Bitsy]

4 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Disclosing the attack would mean making Perry's antics public.  Perhaps Celeste wanted to shield her children (and maybe Ziggy) from finding that their dad was a wife beater and a rapist.

The cops knew the part about Perry attacking Celeste. They referred to him "roughing her up" and she had bruises all over her face that I'm sure all of the busybodies at the fundraiser knew weren't there when she arrived.  The cops just didn't understand why Celeste wouldn't admit that she'd pushed him during the brawl since it was obviously justified.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Bitsy

[DarkRaichu]

31 minutes ago, susannot said:

So Perry thought he could fight off 5 women and still brutalize and kill his wife.  There is no doubt in my mind that he was trying to, and would have, killed Celeste in front of witnesses.  It is possible that he thought those witnesses were worthless, because they were women.  Or it is just that he was insane with rage.

I think that was a big reason why the cast Skaasgard.  They need someone who is tall enough to be believably menacing to Kidman AND can take on 4 women with little problem

[stagmania]

1 hour ago, Keepitmoving said:

I guess it was left to us to infer that maybe Bonnie had a history with being a victim of domestic violence during childhood or maybe in a previous relationship. Maybe that's why she lives a life of calm/zen now.  But I didn't infer that, I had to read the summary posted here and think, oh. Because I just wasn't given enough clues to come to that conclusion, other than her just being outraged/horrified at Perry's behavior. I guess I could have gotten there by questioning why she just didn't run back for help instead of charging in by herself, that maybe she did that because it was personal. But the show just didn't devote enough time to Bonnie's character for me to think about all that.

I had already seen hints of it earlier on, though they were subtle (her conversation with Ed about baggage, her reaction to Abigail's project). I think I mentioned in my posts on previous episodes that there seemed to be some hinting that Bonnie had a darker past than we knew, and that she was going to be important. And her reaction to Perry was very telling-she knew instantly what she was seeing and her protective instincts took over.

41 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

Bummed they didn't show the women covering for Bonnie. That was a HUGE missed opportunity, but they would rather have live band karaoke and Maddy as a cheater (so OOC). The covering for Bonnie was a big sisterhood moment.

Do you mean actually show us the words they said in interrogation? Because I thought they conveyed pretty clearly that the women were covering for Bonnie without us having to hear the dialogue. I thought that Madeline comforting her, the ladies agreeing on a story, and all of them together in the end showed us everything we needed to understand. 

I loved that little glimpse of Madeline and Bonnie after Perry's death. You just know that Madeline has taken her under her wing now. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by stagmania

[dd21dd21]

I did have a nice reaction to Jane realizing it was Perry even thought I already figured that also, i was shocked only because I had forgotten about it lol

But man, the moment Nicole Kidman stepped out the car my nerves were on edge.

then one by one everybody converging at the stairs we know the accident took place at was great television

and of course Perry being Ziggy's dad reveal was just as eye roll worthy as I imagined it would

also was Perry was just going beat her ass in front of all her friends? smh  their lucky Perry doesn't flirt with firearms. He truly had nothing left to lose at that pt.

Edited April 3, 2017 by dd21dd21

[vixenbynight]

35 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

What does Perry do for a living  that takes him to Vienna and Hawaii on "business"?

Laughing at the people protesting because Perry is too evil. Sometimes a dick is just a dick.

Hhash...Agreed. Perry even told Celeste that she was "fine" after he flipped her over all the furniture, dragged her through their bedroom, forced her up against the wall, choked her and then kicked her in the stomach. Yah, he's too evil to then be revealed as a rapist.

4 minutes ago, VioletMarx said:

Were Jane and Celeste dressed in the same Audrey Hepburn outfit? If so, nice touch.

Yes, they were dressed in the same outfit. I didn't focus on that, because I was so worried about Perry knowing that Celeste had gotten an apartment, was planning on escaping with the kids, but then she had to go to that damn event at the school. I was terrified that he would attack her in the car.

[sportsgirl]

The actual confrontation happened so quickly, especially balanced against all the singing: I really wish the pacing of the trivia night was more balanced. Also, how many kids go to that school? There were so, so many extras posing as parents, it was insane.

One thing I did really love was the look that Maddie and Nathan shared as they hugged their spouses: in it, Maddie's agreeing to protect Bonnie. I really wish the Joseph plot didn't exist and Maddie's story remained rooted in her conflict with Nathan, but this moment was still quite poignant.

It strikes me that a lot of plot threads are tangentially tied up, but there's plenty that could be addressed more completely: Maddie's entanglement with Joseph and his wife; Bonnie's backstory; and most notably, the detective determined to uncover more about Perry's death: definitely seems to be keeping the possibilities open for a season two.