S02.E17: Distant Sun

[Xander]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

Mind control alien: Probably he should have just straight-up controlled Kara and made her kill herself. First thing I thought was "literally, Supergirl could just fly away and not be at risk from Mon-El. Why doesn't she?"

Even Mon-El told her to run but on two occasions in the episode, she mentioned that she's Supergirl and she doesn't back down or run away from anything. 

[ACW]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

Lars: Given that he's a beneficiary from the yellow sun too, shouldn't it take more than a dagger to kill him? 

I'm assuming a lead dagger, impractical as it sounds.  Or, as in some comics, objects from #planet can overcome the invulnerability of people from #planet.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I get that Supergirl (and the writers) think that not running is brave. But in reality, it's kind of silly. An all-out slugfest between Mon-El and Supergirl could result in massive destruction in a residential area. It's not just her own personal safety, but the entire neighborhood's. Also, instead of just dodging, Supergirl hypothetically could have used the time/distance to scan Mon-El for devices that might be controlling him, as well as fly around the area to see if she could find Mind-Controlling Alien. Maybe they don't have the special effects budget I guess to show Supergirl flying away and Mon-El chasing her a la the Incredible Hulk.

I know Daxamites are canonically vulnerable to lead, but I can't help but think a lead dagger is pretty ridiculous. 

On another note, even if I were a king on Earth, if I were able to go to another planet and get the power-set of a Mon-El, I'd never go back. I'm thus kind of surprised that Rhea wants to make Daxam proper great again when they could just as easily daxamform Jupiter or something and still have retain their powers. Unless the notion is that the super-powered slaves would be too tough to control. But they could just as easily get slaves from any number of places. I'm probably putting way too much thought into this.

[Bruinsfan]

Benoist and Wood have to be a real-life couple, right?

[VCRTracking]

They are. Pictures just came out of them on vacation on a beach in Mexico.

I like seeing Teri Hatcher evil. The closest I had seen her be conniving before was on a Night Court episode where she was mercilessly teasing(as in sexually) Dan Fielding and he had to keep away because she was his boss' niece.

Edited March 28, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

They are. Pictures just came out of them on vacation on a beach in Mexico.

I like seeing Teri Hatcher evil. The closest I had seen her be conniving before was on a Night Court episode where she was mercilessly teasing(as in sexually) Dan Fielding and he had to keep away because she was his boss' niece.

Check out that 80s hairdo on Teri, lol.  They just don't make hair like that anymore.

[tennisgurl]

Every time I go to an 80s themed party, and I think girls are going overboard with the big hair, I see something from the actual 80s, and I just think "wow, they need to go BIGGER!".

[catrice2]

Well, I didn't know they were dating.  I guess we will never get rid of Mon El. I'm sorry, this love story has ruined the season for me. Didn't they cast her husband as a potential love interest last year?  Is that in her contract?  The problem with Kara and anyone is the same one they had with Barry...the write them as too juvenile so it is hard to invest or "buy" a romantic connection with anyone.   They have moments when she reminds me of Chrissy Snow from Three's Company.  I only saw the end of the episode. Terri Hatcher and Kevin Sorbo were awful.  Lynda Carter  looks good.  Where is Sharon Leal? I have missed a couple of episodes....did they kill her off.  Thank god Jonn had something to do. 

Didn't she learn anything from Jennifer Love Hewitt about what happens when you have to have your "love interest," in your professional life? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

Where is Sharon Leal? I have missed a couple of episodes....did they kill her off.  

No, they didn't kill off M'gaan. Unlike Mon-El, she went back to Mars to help her people and free them from the Evil White Martians. I think she said she may return one day, but her people needed her and this was something she needed to do, despite her feelings for J'onn.

[Mellowyellow]

I really enjoyed this episode. I'm warming up to Mon El. I think they've done a lovely job of redeeming him and the actor is selling it. Haha I've finally gotten over his stint as Evil Kai on TVD.

I laughed so hard at the Romeo and Juliet thing. Poor Mon El I hope he doesn't read the rest of it. 

LOVED Winn rescuing Mon El.

Ma El is nuts! Teri Hatcher is so awesome. Ok this is going to sound creepy and I 500% think she's evil and insane but I feel like I understand why she's nuts. I understand the crazy, obsessive, controlling parenting thing she has going and why she killed the Dad because he won't support her in her goal of getting her baby back. I hope we see more of her!

[emarasmoak]

I loved the episode.

I had a lot of fun with scenes like the body-controlling fight, game night, mind reading show off, President Carler and whatever she is up to, the spaceship rescue, the Fortress of solitude, Winn's heroics, Mon-El's fun lines, Kara/ Mon-El cuteness together, everything related to the Daxam Royal Family and specially Teri Hatcher who I think is killing it.

By the way, I don't think that the relationship from Rhea and Lar Gand to his son has ever been a loving one. That phrase about peeling out the little child from her leg creeped me out. And Mon-El didn't seem to be too surprised about being slapped or imprisoned, I wonder if that has happened before. I think that the exile years when Rhea's strength kept him going made Lar Gand be softer. I believe that mom and dad do not love him, that they just need Mon-El to continue the blood line, which seems consistent with how medieval monarchies rules for succession worked. But unless he is recognised as King (which probably should be now that Lar Gand is dead) he will not have real power to change anything.

I loved the conversation between Mon-El and Lar Gand. No witnesses, no hope to see Kara again, but Mon-El was already trying to change things for the better. Yep, he is trying to be a better person for himself now.

Edited March 29, 2017 by emarasmoak

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 3/27/2017 at 8:48 PM, RacerHo7 said:

Also, like you, I'm still waiting for the protagonist, the character that the show is named for, to actually have a real storyline this season.  Turning an 'arrogant frat boy' into a 'good enough person' to be your boyfriend isn't a story line, and that's pretty much what they've given the hero this season.  It would never happen to a male superhero, so it shouldn't be happening to Supergirl.

Two points:

First, Kara has had other storylines this season. They may not have been handled all that well, and they've been overshadowed somewhat by the Mon-El romance, but they've been there. There's been Kara's growth (or lack thereof) as a reporter. There has been her emergence as a defender of aliens and alien rights. And there has been her getting more insight into the concept of families/bloodlines, what they can make you do and how they don't necessarily define who you are. (Mon-El is part of that storyline, but also Jeremiah, Lena and M'gann).

Second, with male protagonists, the go-to seems to be woman is on a pedestal (often for no real reason) and dating another guy (see: Smallville with Clark and Lana, Flash with Barry and Iris, Arrow with Ollie and Laurel) rather than woman is a shrew who needs taming. Some that fall in that latter category would be Gotham with Bat-kid and Cat-tween and Smallville with Clark and Lois...there are probably others that aren't coming to mind.

[JapMo]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

First, Kara has had other storylines this season. They may not have been handled all that well, and they've been overshadowed somewhat by the Mon-El romance, but they've been there.

Couldn't agree more.  Kara's defense of Lena and all her scenes with her this season have had nothing to do with Mon-El.   Everyone has their own opinion about Mon-El.  But IMO, I have watched the show since the beginning, and I think Kara has grown tremendously this season over last.  Calista/Cat Grant actually, if you think about it, was the star last year.  The writers gave her the royal treatment, giving her the best lines so she outshown anyone else in any scene she was in.  Loved her, and would love to have her back, but last year Kara was a timid cowering mouse, letting Cat Grant bulldoze over her, and this year she's coming into her own. 

On a separate rant, the one thing I'd like to see change, and it started last year and it's still going on, is how badly Kara gets her ass kicked in any fight.  She always wins, in the end of course, but not without what appears to be some major bruises and pain.  Maybe it's my recollections of all the Superman comics, tv shows and movies, but he rarely got hurt.  He was invincible, and nothing really affected him.  Kara, on the other hand, is always shown as hurt, always on the ground stunned from some punch or weapon zap, barely able to pull herself up to defend herself.   She's invincible too, right? 

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think different portrayals of Superman over the years have had him at different power levels. In the 60s, he literally could push moons and planets around if need be. If you look at the Superman of his own animated series/Justice League Animated, he still was basically invulnerable but could get messed up pretty good. Smallville Clark got knocked around pretty good, but then Kryptonite or K-freaks were pretty ubiquitous.

The trouble is that there are very few people who should be able to stand up to Superman/girl without Kryptonite, red sun radiation or magic. And even with them in this universe, because anti-Kryptonite shielding is a canonical thing, and because having the full power set of Flash-like speed, flight, heat vision and so forth, it should be possible for a Supergirl to simply get out of range of whatever weakness and nuke the person causing the weakness from orbit with heat vision, throwing an object at them, etc.

[Bruinsfan]

Only when she crosses over to other shows.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

If you look at the Superman of his own animated series/Justice League Animated, he still was basically invulnerable but could get messed up pretty good.

Yeah, Bruce Timm admitted, they made Supes weaker than he actually is, because he can beat/defeat anyone without any problems. But then they wouldn't have a show. So they weakened him a bit, so that villains like Parasite could hurt him. And of course, there was Darkseid and Doomsday. But even Kara in the animated universe was just as strong, and even while getting her ass kicked, she would get right back up and wipe the floor and beat whoever she was fighting. The fight with Galatea is a great scene.

But on this show, Kara is made so much more weaker and it's stupid.

[iMonrey]

I did not watch The Flash cross-over episode so I have no idea how Kara and Mon-El got back together. I really dislike these constant cross-over "events" so many shows seem to do these days. But if they insist on doing them, they should avoid tying up dangling plot points (like the main character breaking up with her boyfriend) on alternate shows. People like me who only watch this one won't know what the hell happened when they're back together again all of a sudden the following week.

Shows like this already require a willing suspension of disbelief so I'll try not to question how Winn was able to hack into an alien craft he had no experience with that quickly. That said, I still have to wonder how the hell the people back at the DEO could be watching what was happening, like the Daxam ship had security cameras all over the place that Winn could re-direct back to headquarters on earth. "Winn, can you switch over to the throne room so we can see what's going on in there? Sure, no problem." Please. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I did not watch The Flash cross-over episode so I have no idea how Kara and Mon-El got back together. I really dislike these constant cross-over "events" so many shows seem to do these days. But if they insist on doing them, they should avoid tying up dangling plot points (like the main character breaking up with her boyfriend) on alternate shows. People like me who only watch this one won't know what the hell happened when they're back together again all of a sudden the following week.

In case you or others care, I'll sum up. In case people don't want to be spoiled, I'll put it under spoilers.

When last we saw our heroine, she had been mindwhammied and physically taken to Flash's Earth by a random dude. Random Dude called himself the Music Meister and he mindwhammied Flash as well. Music Meister puts them in a musical and tells them the only way out is to follow the script to the end, and that if they die in the musical, they die in real life. The script has a bunch of familiar faces acting out a Romeo and Juliet scenario in a gang setting. A character who looks like Flash's estranged love, Iris, was involved with a character who looks like Mon-El. Our heroes get a little grossed out by seeing their lovers' doppelgangers get lovey with each other and also get some insight as to the reasons real Mon-El and Iris acted the way they did. Kara and Barry figure that the way to reach the end of the script is to get the two musical lovebirds to confess to their rival gangster parents that they are in love. The rival gangsters pretend to be happy about it but then launch a war. Our heroes get caught in the crossfire, literally, and their vitals start to go down. But then the real Iris and Mon-El get to jump in the musical and save Our Heroes with the power of their love. Turns out the Music Meister was basically a good guy who wanted to get Kara and Barry to see how great their partners really were.

[iMonrey]

Thanks, Chicago, but - ugh! I'm kind of glad I missed that.

[AudienceofOne]

On 27/03/2017 at 7:39 PM, tennisgurl said:

Really, I've decided that I officially like Mon-El as a character, and he and Kara could have worked as a couple, if they had moved a little slower. 

Yes, during this episode I realised this was a season three plotline. They should have had spent this season establishing him and getting him and Kara together. Then next season with the 'reveal' and his parents. As it is, it's just too fast. But I like the character as well.

On another note - since does the DEO care about 'orders from the President'? Where did that come from?

[immortalfrieza]

12 hours ago, JapMo said:

 

On a separate rant, the one thing I'd like to see change, and it started last year and it's still going on, is how badly Kara gets her ass kicked in any fight.  She always wins, in the end of course, but not without what appears to be some major bruises and pain.  Maybe it's my recollections of all the Superman comics, tv shows and movies, but he rarely got hurt.  He was invincible, and nothing really affected him.  Kara, on the other hand, is always shown as hurt, always on the ground stunned from some punch or weapon zap, barely able to pull herself up to defend herself.   She's invincible too, right? 

Actually, you just described as a negative what is easily one of the best things about Supergirl's portrayal on this show. The problem with most versions of Superman is he's strong enough that without being depowered or some cheap plot device like Kryptonite he can beat almost every "threat" with a flick of a finger or at most by flying in and wailing on them for a bit, and whenever he does come up against a challenge that can match Superman at his full power the writers far too often just jack him up more out of nowhere so he win instead of having him stay at his power level and use his skills and head to win like they should have him do, basically the same thing happens with other Kryptonian superheroes including Supergirl. The fact that Superman wasn't so powerful in the Animated Series and Justice League was easily one of the biggest contributors to that version receiving so much praise. Being basically invincible and nothing really affecting Kara like that is a great negative, not a positive, and being such is why it's so difficult to write decent stories with Superman.

Kara has been consistently shown to be weak enough that she can routinely get her butt kicked or at least hurt by almost every adversary she's come across, and Kryptonite has been used fairly sparingly to invoke that, and that is good. I applaud the writers for having the sense to keep Kara's strength, durability, and powers toned down to a level that makes even human opponents with intelligence and powerful enough weapons seem like they could pose a viable threat, even if it's largely just for budget reasons because it leads to much much better stories than the God Mode Sues that Kryptonians usually are in other works.

 

GASP! Alex learns that Maggie had an Ex and it didn't lead to senseless and baseless paranoia and thus nonsensical relationship drama? Then, Alex doesn't go ballistic on Maggie for not telling her things that were none of her business? What's more, Alex later finds out Maggie cheated on her Ex and reacts by talking things over with Maggie like a mature human instead of freaking out and getting all possessive? I must have fell into some parallel universe where TV couples are actually capable of dealing with bumps in their relationship rationally or something.

I noticed that fiction has this tendency for characters to have these really really overblown reactions to being lied to or even just not telling them about things that are none of their business so it's refreshing after seeing Kara break up with Mon-El over a lie a couple episodes ago to see something like this. It's ironic that the only reason this side story between Alex and Maggie is notable is because two adults actually act like adults.

On 3/28/2017 at 11:23 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I will actually give the writers credit where credit is due. They explicitly had Mon-El talk about why he didn't want to go back (aside from enjoying Super-nookie). Daxam was based on slavery, disparities in rights, income, wealth, etc. Through his time on Earth and lectures by Supergirl, Mon-El saw that was wrong. His parents want to restore old Daxam. Heck, his parents are the leading advocates, beneficiaries and embodiments of a slave system and the resulting hierarchy. Mon-El doesn't believe in that any more.

And now that he's "woke," as the kids might say, Mon-El doesn't want to participate in perpetuating such a system. He told his dad that essentially in this episode, and Mom-El was going to lock him up for up to the four years that the trip back to Daxam in an attempt to disabuse them of these crazy notions like egalitarianism and democracy.

Well, I also have to give the writers credit where it's due, because they did establish that Mon-El hated the slavery on his planet and agreed that Daxam was a race of "bullies and hedonists" when Holo-Alura said a much early on in season 2. He might have benefited from the slavery as royalty and even generally fit the fratboy Daxamite stereotype, that didn't mean he liked it. Going from a world where those things were a matter of course to one where the same are frowned upon at best only made it so he could express his dislike for it freely. In fact, I'd say the main reason why Mon-El tried to pass himself off as some random guard instead of a prince was because he didn't like being royalty and all the negatives that came with it.

The same has been said before here but it bears repeating, I honestly think they should have had episodes like this and the previous one far sooner, around 10 episodes or so ago. It would have made his redemption arc and his relationship with Kara work a LOT better if it was established he was truly changing for the better long before he and Kara got together. Now, if they continue on this course things could be repaired, but they've got a lot of work to do to redeem Mon-El as a character and his relationship with Kara.

As an aside, I was hoping that when Mom-El was beating the crap out of Kara Mon-El's reaction would've been to punch his mother across the room and fight for a bit at least before just conceding to her demands, not just give up right then. Now I'm hoping he finds out that she killed his father somehow he'll go kick her ass, it would be a nice way to top off his arc.

[legaleagle53]

56 minutes ago, immortalfrieza said:

As an aside, I was hoping that when Mom-El was beating the crap out of Kara Mon-El's reaction would've been to punch his mother across the room and fight for a bit at least before just conceding to her demands, not just give up right then. Now I'm hoping he finds out that she killed his father somehow he'll go kick her ass, it would be a nice way to top off his arc.

That would get us into Greek-tragedy territory.  Remember that Orestes was charged by Apollo with avenging his father Agamemnon's murder by killing his father's murderer -- who just happened to be Orestes' mother, Clytemnestra.   It was a sacred duty that was bound together with what would be considered the most horrific of crimes, and I can just see the show going there with Mon-El and Rhea.

Edited March 30, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Karlophe]

13 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

That would get us into Greek-tragedy territory.  Remember that Orestes was charged by Apollo with avenging his father Agamemnon's murder by killing his father's murderer -- who just happened to be Orestes' mother, Clytemnestra.   It was a sacred duty that was bound together with what would be considered the most horrific of crimes, and I can just see the show going there with Mon-El and Rhea.

Neither can I. Not to mention that Mon-El's entire character arc has been centered on growth and change, being better than what he was and where he came from. Mama El has to be taken out, and Mon-El will play a part in that, that's a given. But doing so by way of the same violence and disrespect with which she treated him isn't the way to go about it at all. It would in fact make his arc pointless, because his growth would be rendered meaningless. If anything I think at some point before the end he'll try to save her and bring her around to at least respecting his new ideals even if she can't share them...with her ultimately refusing and becoming the agent of her own demise. But that's just me. 

I do wonder how he's going to take the news of his father's death, though, and how long it will take him to find out. Especially with them just having reached an understanding, too...

But yes, agreed on all points. 

[immortalfrieza]

17 minutes ago, Karlophe said:

Neither can I. Not to mention that Mon-El's entire character arc has been centered on growth and change, being better than what he was and where he came from. Mama El has to be taken out, and Mon-El will play a part in that, that's a given. But doing so by way of the same violence and disrespect with which she treated him isn't the way to go about it at all. It would in fact make his arc pointless, because his growth would be rendered meaningless. If anything I think at some point before the end he'll try to save her and bring her around to at least respecting his new ideals even if she can't share them...with her ultimately refusing and becoming the agent of her own demise. But that's just me. 

I do wonder how he's going to take the news of his father's death, though, and how long it will take him to find out. Especially with them just having reached an understanding, too...

But yes, agreed on all points. 

I said "kick Rhea's ass" not "kill her." It would nicely demonstrate the culmination of Mon-El's evolution into a hero to find out his mother killed his father, have a nice back and forth fight with her over it with Mon-El all murderously pissed off, have her at his mercy, then spare her because "that's what heroes do" or because "I'm not like you" or something like that, THEN we can have the whole "Rhea does something stupid and kills herself" self-disposing villain cliche or lock her away for another time. Besides, someone who does what Rhea needs to receive a total beatdown at some point, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as impactful if it came from anyone else but Mon-El. Maybe even throw in Mon-El putting Rhea to trial at the end to answer for the King's murder.

Edited March 30, 2017 by immortalfrieza

[MarkHB]

On 3/28/2017 at 6:28 PM, Dobian said:

Check out that 80s hairdo on Teri, lol.  They just don't make hair like that anymore.

Also... spectacular.  Takes me back to the days when she was the "most downloaded woman on the Internet".  (Kids, the Internet was a lot smaller and simpler back then.)

 

On 3/28/2017 at 11:11 PM, catrice2 said:

Well, I didn't know they were dating.  I guess we will never get rid of Mon El. I'm sorry, this love story has ruined the season for me. Didn't they cast her husband as a potential love interest last year?  Is that in her contract?  The problem with Kara and anyone is the same one they had with Barry...the write them as too juvenile so it is hard to invest or "buy" a romantic connection with anyone.   They have moments when she reminds me of Chrissy Snow from Three's Company.  I only saw the end of the episode. Terri Hatcher and Kevin Sorbo were awful.  Lynda Carter  looks good.  Where is Sharon Leal? I have missed a couple of episodes....did they kill her off.  Thank god Jonn had something to do. 

Didn't she learn anything from Jennifer Love Hewitt about what happens when you have to have your "love interest," in your professional life? 

So far as I can tell, there was no mention of Melissa and Chris being a couple until well into this season, so I think there's a good chance she "met him at work."

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

Well, I also have to give the writers credit where it's due, because they did establish that Mon-El hated the slavery on his planet and agreed that Daxam was a race of "bullies and hedonists" when Holo-Alura said a much early on in season 2. He might have benefited from the slavery as royalty and even generally fit the fratboy Daxamite stereotype, that didn't mean he liked it. Going from a world where those things were a matter of course to one where the same are frowned upon at best only made it so he could express his dislike for it freely. In fact, I'd say the main reason why Mon-El tried to pass himself off as some random guard instead of a prince was because he didn't like being royalty and all the negatives that came with it.

The same has been said before here but it bears repeating, I honestly think they should have had episodes like this and the previous one far sooner, around 10 episodes or so ago. It would have made his redemption arc and his relationship with Kara work a LOT better if it was established he was truly changing for the better long before he and Kara got together. Now, if they continue on this course things could be repaired, but they've got a lot of work to do to redeem Mon-El as a character and his relationship with Kara.

I may have forgotten, but I don't remember scenes establishing much of anything about Mon-El's distaste for Daxamite society prior to the last few episodes. I think there was a line or two where he conceded in his courtship of Kara that maybe Daxam was superficial or the like. But I don't think there was an acknowledgement that Daxam would be by our standards flat-out evil. Maybe in the one where they were slaves for a hot second?

[Chicago Redshirt]

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Thanks, Chicago, but - ugh! I'm kind of glad I missed that.

The main highlight of the show was Barry and Kara performing a song "Super Friend," written by Rachel Bloom of "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend." Very cute, and they both have some moves.,
 

[emarasmoak]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I may have forgotten, but I don't remember scenes establishing much of anything about Mon-El's distaste for Daxamite society prior to the last few episodes. I think there was a line or two where he conceded in his courtship of Kara that maybe Daxam was superficial or the like. But I don't think there was an acknowledgement that Daxam would be by our standards flat-out evil. Maybe in the one where they were slaves for a hot second?

See direct quotes from his negative comments about Daxam here:

Episode 2x04: Alura's hologram: "Daxam. Sister world to Krypton. A race of bullies and hedonists, committed only to their own pleasure. They are selfish...". Kara: "Bye, mom! Sorry about that." Mon-El: "No, it was, uh, an apt description."

Episode 2x06: Mon-El: "Yeah, you never met my parents. They weren't exactly role models." Kara: "But mine saw the end of the world coming, and didn't do anything about it." Mon-El: "Hey, it's not It's not your parents' fault. It's not even Krypton's fault. Okay, we shared a star, that's all."

Episode 2x09: It was the first mention that Daxam had slavery. Mon-El: "Wait, this is Maaldoria?". Kara: "You know where we are?" Mon-El: "The locals call it Slavers' Moon. The royal family on Daxam used to buy their slaves here." Kara: "I forgot. They had slavery on Daxam". Mon-El: "There were a lot of things there I didn't agree with". 

Episode 2x09: Mon-El said "There wasn't much to inspire me on Daxam". Kara: "What about the Prince?". Mon-El: "He wasn't worth admiring. But I wanna be". (basically admitting that HE was not worth admiring but wanted to).

Episode 2x14: Kara: "If your father walked through that door right now, after all these years that you thought he was dead, what would you do?". Mon-El: "I would run." Kara: "Run?" Mon-El: "Because he was not a good man."

Episode 2x16 is when Kara meets his parents. This conversation is during the meal at the spaceship: Rhea: "And to find you. So that we might return, now that the atmosphere is hospitable. To make Daxam great again." Mon-El: "Daxam was never great."

Episode 2x16 (break up scene): Mon-El: "I'm the former Prince of Daxam. And I was a spoiled, useless person, but I didn't know. Until I met you." (I believe that this is literal - it never occurred to him that his way of living was wrong until he came to Earth).

Episode 2x16 (no witnesses, just Mon-El and his parents at the spaceship after Kara broke up with him): Mon-El: "You never cared about our people before." Rhea: "Things will be different this time." Mon-El: "They won't. It'll be more of the same. I think about our lives there and it makes me ill. I detest who I was. I was ignorant, and blind to those around me and letting myself be propped up at the expense of our people. And I'm tired of being served and I'm tired of taking the easy way out. And I'm done being your prince." Rhea: "You sound just like her. That Kryptonian girl has poisoned you". Mon-El: "No! Mother, that woman is the best thing that's ever happened to me. The best thing I know. And whether we're together or not, being near her, it makes me a better person. It makes me the person that I want to be." (note that he wanted to be a better person independently of getting her back or not).

Episode 2x17 (at the spaceship, after he agrees to return with them to save Kara from Rhea): Lar Gand: "Your life will always be Rhea's responsibility. But son, you belong with your people. It means so much to them to have you back." Mon-El: "If this is about the people, then some things have to change. One day I will become king. And I want to be a different kind of king. And why not start now? Why not rebuild our kingdom better than it was. And make justice available for everyone. And get rid of rank and make it so that everyone's voice is heard equally." Lar Gand: "This is absurd." Mon-El: "Why? Why is that so absurd? We have a chance to start again, Father. So why should we go and just recreate the same broken system as before?" Lar Gand: "Because it's what the people need. Do you think we survived the destruction of our world by giving everyone a say? Our royal house stood for a thousand years because the people need our order. And our leadership." Mon-El: "Our house would have fallen. So rebuild with me, Father. Please." Rhea "Enough! (she slaps him) It will take us four years to reach Daxam. Maybe if you spend that time in a cell you'll be cured of these misconceptions." (she calls the guards and he is taken prisoner). Again, this conversation happens with only guards as witnesses, with no hope of returning to Earth or getting Kara back. He just said it because it was what he thought.

 

I don't think that Mon-El started to think about how bad was Daxam society until he decided to stand up against Parasite (this happened at the end of 2x07) and started to question what type of person he could be.

Note that Mon-El woke up at the end of 2x02 and 2x03 happened in a couple of days. 2x04 is the chapter when Winn and Mon-El go to an bar with a Halloween party (meaning that this happened on 30 October 2016 ). So he woke up from his coma roughly 5 months before his identity was discovered (yes, I know that Kara said in the Flash crossover that he had lied for 9 months, but that would roughly be the moment when his pod landed in Earth - writers in the Flarrowverse are never good with dates e.g. how many years since Kara landed in Earth? they have given at least 3 different dates). The Halloween reference gives us an idea of when 2x04 happened and the rest of episodes (as usual in the Flarrowverse) are supposed to happen roughly when they are released (e.g. the Mxyzpltk episode with Valentine's Day was released on 20 February).

Remember that TPTB have said that they wanted this character evolution to start from the most distant point to being a hero (shallow and selfish) to thoughtful and selfless. As he woke up roughly 5 months before his identity was discovered, I find the level of distaste that he shows in 2x16 about Daxamite customs to be a quick evolution, to be honest. I don't think that it would be realistic that he started to be self-aware before 2x09.

Also, as a secondary character and particularly a love interest, his POV does not get a lot of time (just the same as with any conflict with Iris or Felicity what the narrative wants us to look at are Barry's and Oliver's POV).

Edited March 30, 2017 by emarasmoak

[Cranberry]

I agree that it would make the most sense/be the most emotionally resonant for Mon-El to somehow defeat his mother, but this is an example of what people mean when they say that it feels like he's taking over the show and that (in general) this season isn't about Kara. It appears that Rhea will be the "big bad" of the remaining episodes, and the villain arc should center around our hero, not her love interest.

[stealinghome]

5 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I agree that it would make the most sense/be the most emotionally resonant for Mon-El to somehow defeat his mother, but this is an example of what people mean when they say that it feels like he's taking over the show and that (in general) this season isn't about Kara. It appears that Rhea will be the "big bad" of the remaining episodes, and the villain arc should center around our hero, not her love interest.

ITA, but sadly, I'm pretty much preparing myself for the season finale to be Mon-El defeating Rhea and saving the day while Kara basically holds his purse and the sum total of her contribution is making moon eyes at him and gushing over how much he's changed. I figure if my expectations are on the floor, there's no way the show can disappoint me...right?

Quote

On another note - since does the DEO care about 'orders from the President'? Where did that come from?

To be fair, they've always been a government agency, so presumably they've always been directly under the President's control. Wasn't one of the sticking points of S1 the fact that the President or Joint Chiefs or someone had given General Lane authority over the DEO? iirc the pissing contest between the DEO and Army was a subplot running through most of S1.

[mac123x]

On 3/27/2017 at 8:17 PM, Lantern7 said:

Mon's trying to be a better person. That has to count for something, right? I mean, he's basically a Big Dumb Alien who should get behind James, Winn and Barry to court Kara, but he's willing to change.

That's the part that was making my skin crawl.  He's willing to change large chunks of his personality and behavior just to please a woman?  Monel is Sandy from Grease but bland..

 

I liked the Alex / Maggie stuff.  They seem to have an adult relationship, which is such a rarity on TV any more..

On 3/28/2017 at 0:39 PM, JapMo said:

the Black Widow Queen of Daxam gets a job

Uber driver.  She gets constant 1 star ratings for threatening the lives of her passengers if they smoke or get mud in her car.

[John Potts]

I was thinking it was nice to see Supergirl actually taking the fight to the Evil Queen (even outnumbered by 4 armed guards) - though they rather spoilt it by showing it was actually John there, not Kara.

Say, Queen Lois, if re-establishing the Daxamite civilisation is your goal, maybe not a good idea to kill off one of the few men you have? And on that subject, why not have another kid if perpetuating your race and/or royal family is the aim? Even if you're out of your child bearing years, I'm sure Daxam has at least as many fertility treatments available as Earth has. Though she can hardly be blamed for turning evil - nobody can wear skintight black leather on TV without turning evil at some point.

Incidentally, is Queen Lois queen BECAUSE she married King Herc or is she the rightful ruler in her own right (as in the UK)?  Because if it's the former, she has no right to claim the throne at all. Admittedly, in the UK case, the Queen's husband is PRINCE Philip (not King) but it's possible Daxam uses a different naming convention (it's also possible they were joint monarchs, as happened in the UK between 1688 and 1694).

On ‎28‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 2:12 AM, stealinghome said:

because you KNOW Rhea must die in or by 2x22.

Or cackle while sending her flying monkeys after Kara saying, "Fly, my pretties!"

On ‎28‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 2:17 AM, Lantern7 said:

And [Mon-El]'s watching Star Wars! The original trilogy!!

And even reading some literature - and I loved that Kara pointed out that "just like Romeo & Juliet" isn't exactly an encouraging statement.

On ‎28‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 2:12 AM, tennisgurl said:

Holy shit, Winn hacked an alien warship in about five minutes!

Evidently, he learned his hacking skills from Jeff Goldblum in Independence Day!

[legaleagle53]

On 3/27/2017 at 6:12 PM, tennisgurl said:

Holy shit, Winn hacked an alien warship in about five minutes! How was he working as a low level tech guy until he joined the DEO? How did the NSA or someone not recruit him as soon as he left college?

Forget Cisco.  Winn needs to meet Felicity on Earth-1.

Edited April 5, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Lazlo]

Is it weird that I actually kind of agreed with the Daxamite royals (prior to Queen Rhea going all murdery)? Mon-El is heir to throne of a scattered people that have just suffered a civilisation ending catastrophe. He could have been a very potent symbol of continuity and hope.

Then again the only alternatives according to the show seem to be absolutist monarchy or total republic. Have none of the writers ever heard of constitutional monarchy?

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 3/31/2017 at 8:34 PM, mac123x said:

That's the part that was making my skin crawl.  He's willing to change large chunks of his personality and behavior just to please a woman?  Monel is Sandy from Grease but bland..

Sandy from Grease IS bland for 90 percent of the movie/show. They even have a song about it. She probably is still bland after her makeover, if hotter (if you're into that sort of thing).

[NeenerNeener]

I'm fully expectIng Mon-El to go back to Daxam after defeating Evil Momster in 2x22. He'll either be King or their answer to George Washington, but he's going to have to go back and clean up the mess.  Then he will be Kara's lost love, and she will be free to date again next season although she'll mourn quietly for awhile.

[emarasmoak]

15 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I'm fully expectIng Mon-El to go back to Daxam after defeating Evil Momster in 2x22. He'll either be King or their answer to George Washington, but he's going to have to go back and clean up the mess.  Then he will be Kara's lost love, and she will be free to date again next season although she'll mourn quietly for awhile.

Most of the Daxamites are scattered across the universe anyway, so I want him to abdicate so they can be a Republic. The mess will be cleaned up after defeating Evil Momster.

I want Mon-El to stay with the team in Earth.

Spoiler

Which will happen because Chris said in an interview that his hero arch will continue in season 3 and he has already tried on the supersuit.

[NeenerNeener]

On 4/11/2017 at 6:23 AM, emarasmoak said:

 I want Mon-El to stay with the team in Earth.

I do too, but this is a tv drama and the course of true love is never smooth on tv dramas, especially not on tv dramas about superheroes.

Edited April 13, 2017 by NeenerNeener

[johntfs]

On 3/28/2017 at 0:55 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I know Daxamites are canonically vulnerable to lead, but I can't help but think a lead dagger is pretty ridiculous. 

My take was gigging "So, so let me get this straight, you have a secret superhero weakness to... bullets."

[immortalfrieza]

On 4/20/2017 at 6:16 PM, johntfs said:

My take was gigging "So, so let me get this straight, you have a secret superhero weakness to... bullets."

It's even WORSE in the comics, comics Daxamites are so vulnerable to lead that without a cure to get it out of them just being exposed to the very very miniscule amount of lead in Earth's atmosphere is enough to kill them before long. A weakness doesn't get more pathetic than that.

[legaleagle53]

15 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

It's even WORSE in the comics, comics Daxamites are so vulnerable to lead that without a cure to get it out of them just being exposed to the very very miniscule amount of lead in Earth's atmosphere is enough to kill them before long. A weakness doesn't get more pathetic than that.

Fortunately for them, the cure is readily available after Brainiac 5 discovered that the secret ingredient is -- wait for it -- green Kryptonite. The cure also has the interesting side effect of allowing a Daxamite to remain super-powered even under a red sun. Not even Kryptonians can do that.

Edited April 22, 2017 by legaleagle53

[CletusMusashi]

On 4/5/2017 at 6:08 AM, John Potts said:

Evidently, he learned his hacking skills from Jeff Goldblum in Independence Day!

I actuially find that trope to be more plausible on this show than I do most other places. The DEO has a staff that consists of humans who are interested in how to repel an alien invasion. So... most of them probably saw "Independance Day" in the theatre. Conversations have been had about it. Ideas have been bounced around about what an alien computer system might be like. And their leader is an alien. He's actually flown an alien ship! Recently, he can even tell them about things he knows and why. So I think that even before Winn gave their infiltration protocols a final touch-up, they had a starting point much higher than, for example, Jeff Goldblum. 

[CletusMusashi]

On 4/5/2017 at 10:39 PM, Lazlo said:

Is it weird that I actually kind of agreed with the Daxamite royals (prior to Queen Rhea going all murdery)? Mon-El is heir to throne of a scattered people that have just suffered a civilisation ending catastrophe. He could have been a very potent symbol of continuity and hope.

Then again the only alternatives according to the show seem to be absolutist monarchy or total republic. Have none of the writers ever heard of constitutional monarchy?

Not only that, but:

Kryptonians ruined her star system, and then found a new star system that gives her people a little bit of power while transforming them into near-gods. And then they take her son away, to be the eternal second banana to someone who can fly around blasting heat rays out of their eyes. 

I actually thought for a good chunk of the ep that Queen Lois was being set up for one of those "Villain's got a point" storylines that Mama Luthor should be rocking but is just too damned over-the-top evil to pull off, but, unfortunately, subtle villains are rapidly going out of style. When Kevin Sorbo is the more likeable part of your duo, be very afraid.

[Chas411]

Im sad that they got rid of Kevin Sorbo so soon but loving Teri Hatcher. Also love how she calls  the Kryptonites out on being holier then thou.

The Alien that President Wonder Woman morphed into - have we seen it before? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

23 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

 

The Alien that President Wonder Woman morphed into - have we seen it before? 

Yes. In her very first appearance earlier in the season, we saw her morph into the White(?) Martian after she made her speech. Which is a shame, because I was hoping she would be President Diana Prince, formerly known as Wonder Woman. Sigh...

[Chas411]

I can't remember that at all. Thanks for filling me in :)

[MarkHB]

6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes. In her very first appearance earlier in the season, we saw her morph into the White(?) Martian after she made her speech. Which is a shame, because I was hoping she would be President Diana Prince, formerly known as Wonder Woman. Sigh...

Not quite; I believe we saw her eyes light up red, but she didn't actually change into a Martian or anything else.

She is, however, President Marsden, a name that deliberately mimics (Charles) "Marston," creator of Wonder Woman.

[legaleagle53]

5 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Not quite; I believe we saw her eyes light up red, but she didn't actually change into a Martian or anything else.

She is, however, President Marsden, a name that deliberately mimics (Charles) "Marston," creator of Wonder Woman.

True. In fact, Lynda herself rather coyly tweeted in response to a fan question after the episode aired that the President is really a 

Spoiler

Durlan.

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Not quite; I believe we saw her eyes light up red, but she didn't actually change into a Martian or anything else.

She is, however, President Marsden, a name that deliberately mimics (Charles) "Marston," creator of Wonder Woman.

 

4 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

True. In fact, Lynda herself rather coyly tweeted in response to a fan question after the episode aired that the President is really a 

  Reveal hidden contents

Durlan.

I stand corrected. BUT. The point is, I wanted her to be President Diana Prince, DAMMIT!!!!!???

[legaleagle53]

11 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

I stand corrected. BUT. The point is, I wanted her to be President Diana Prince, DAMMIT!!!!!???

Sure -- but if she were, and if it ever became public knowledge, she'd be impeached for not being a natural-born citizen.  And that's exactly what will happen if her REAL alien identity is ever exposed -- assuming that something more dire doesn't happen to her first!