S02.E16: Star-Crossed

[AudienceofOne]

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

If I was Kara, I would be less angry about Mon-El lying, and more upset that he apparently left the woman he was sleeping with, those random injured people, that Kryptonian guy (yeah he told the guard not to shoot him, but he didn't exactly try too hard to stop him) and the guard all to die without hardly a glance back. 

But that is what she's angry about. As she said, he was the leader of a cruel world and he benefited from that cruelty. All those little things add up to a big thing, which is that Daxam was a monarchy but mostly it was an oligarchy built for the benefit of a few over the backs of the many. Kara would never have gotten romantically involved with him if she'd known who he was and that's why she's so angry about the lie. 

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Mon-El is a good idea for a character, but I just wish his arc worked a bit better. I want to see him actually working to become a better person because he wants to help people, not just because he likes Kara.

And that's still his motivation. I was interested in the fact that the writers had him say that about halfway through and then at the end tell his parents he wants to stay on Earth because he likes the person he is now. That's the first time he's based his motivation around himself rather than around Kara. Every other time he's said that he wants to be different because of Kara. This is the first time he's flipped it and said that he likes Kara because he's different around her.  That suggests a genuine desire to become a better person, rather than wanting to be different for her.

I guess all this depends on whether or not you liked the first season. I think it pretty much sucked and, while the show is seriously missing Cat, I'm not going to be upset at the introduction of a character like Mon-El. I think the actor gives him a nice air of childish enthusiasm that I find enjoyable to watch. Sure, it's probably his real personality and he's not really acting at all but I don't care.

[Trini]

10 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Say, isn't James the head of a massive media corporation who presumably has a lot of work to do, especially after mysterious aliens hijack the airwaves?  Or perhaps he uses the Oliver Queen approach and lets other people do all of his work.

Seriously; I need a Cat Grant Commentary on Supergirl:Season 2.
 

Quote

How incredibly convenient for the Music Meister to be led in just when Kara happened to have Cisco's doohickey with her. 

...When they haven't mentioned it at all previously (on this show)!!

[RacerHo7]

8 hours ago, LolaRuns said:

I was surprised that the parents of Mon-EL came across as a lot more reasonable than I expected. I was kinda expecting that they would go full on evil step mother and to tell the truth I was kinda looking forward to maybe getting a set of total cheesy moustache twirling villains to cause some chaos. 

But the more reasonable his parents look (well, outside of the slavery topic...) the weaker Mon-El's "It's not my fault, Daxam was terrible, I don't want to go back" argument becomes. 

I also noted Mon-El still missing the point about heroism, but I'm not convinced that that isn't intentional by the writers. guess only time will tell. 

I don't think it was intentional .  Remember when he was supposed to learn the lesson of what heroism was truly all about episodes ago?  Remember Slaver's Moon?  Remember even back before that?  How many different types of lessons does he need, and why does he need to be repeatedly taught them episode after episode?  That's the problem.  He should want to do the right thing, because it's the right thing to do.  James was inspired to help, because he just wanted to help people.  That's what heroism is.  You don't want to be a hero to "get the girl."  That's being selfish, not selfless, and not at all heroic.  Plus, Mon-el does not take responsibility for his behavior, and laughs it off repeatedly.  He can't even blame it on "growing up a rich royal", because Kara grew up a rich royal. 

Mon-el has Supergirl (who he has seen be heroic over and over and over again) as his girlfriend.  By now, he should have been interested in doing better, not because he wanted to impress a girl, but because he just wanted to be a better person. Plus, he should have told her the truth, long before now, and if he wasn't forced to, he might never have been honest. At this point, he's exhausting to me as a character, because he's a man who behaves too much like a child.  I have a teen boy, and Mon-El reminds me of a teenager, not a man.

 

As for his parents, I doubt that we've seen the worst of them.  I expect more thing to come out about them.

[stealinghome]

Plus, Mon-el does not take responsibility for his behavior, and laughs it off repeatedly.  He can't even blame it on "growing up a rich royal", because Kara grew up a rich royal.

Yeah, Mon-El's redemption arc has been written very poorly, and I'm not sure how much I can buy the "but his upbringing made him do it!" excuse because he's a grown-ass man, however much of a frat boy he acts like. Let me preface this by acknowledging that we are all products of our environment (nurture) and that I get that Mon-El is supposed to be in the middle of his redemption arc, not a finished product yet. HOWEVER. Someone on tumblr--I can't find the post now or I'd link to it--made the excellent point that the show has presented us with not just one but TWO characters this season, in Lena and M'gann, that grew up in shitty environments and didn't need someone to hold their hand and guide them to the right path 74959 times to overcome the poor nurture they received. Lena grew up in a household full of crazy genocidal xenophobia, but has steadfastly rejected the excesses of the other Luthors' hatred and murderousness all on her own because she knows that their ideology is wrong. M'gann was basically raised in a Space Nazi society but realized it was wrong all on her own and broke free (and has since gone back to try to make Mars a better society and to atone for her past misdeeds...ahem). If they can have a moral compass all on their own and break free of how they were raised, I'm not impressed by Mon-El needing Kara to nag him into doing the same. He's a grown man.

And this is also where I go back to the show telling us things instead of showing us things. I actually rather liked Mon-El telling his parents off, except that's the first time we've ever seen him have any meaningful reflection on how bad Daxam sucked. Where was this outrage before? Did he realize when he lived on Daxam how crappy things were and just went along with it because he profited from it? Because that's horrible. And if he didn't realize, why didn't we see him coming to this realization on Earth? Why is everything about impressing Kara instead of meaningful self-reflection? Does he feel at all guilty for what he was party to on Daxam or is it just kind of like "shrug, yeah I guess I did some shitty things on Daxam, too bad, oooh potstickers!"? Because it feels like Door #2 right now. Chris Wood is trying hard but he can't sell that much of an about-face when there's been zero build-up to it. I too kind of liked that he told his parents that he's better around Kara regardless of whether they're together, it was a step in the right direction...that the show then immediately erased by having him say to Kara "I want to be a hero to hang out with you!" Sigh. 

I have to say, the more we find out about Daxam, the less I am inclined to judge Kryptonians for judging them. I'm not saying Kryptonians aren't snooty and self-righteous, but I'm also pretty sure that a strong rejection of slavery, kidnapping, and an oppressive monarchy is...actually the correct response to have to all three of those things?

[statsgirl]

On 2017-03-20 at 11:51 PM, MarkHB said:

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for Mon-El to say that he'll rebuild Daxam as a better place.

I can only hope. I'm giving them till episode 2x23.

Mon El is the Laurel Lance of this show, someone the network wants but who diminishes the show overall to have him in it.  It's like they expect him to fill Callista Flockhart's shoes in terms of importance on the show and while he's sucked the life out of Kara's characterization, it's not working.

I really liked this show last season but between the emphasis on Mon El and the loss of Catco and Kara's reporter life* it's just a mess.  I like what they've done with Winn and the brief moments of Alex's relationship with Maggie are good but everything else has gone downhill. Getting rid of Mon El would be a good start to building it back up.

*On Arrow, when Susan lost her job and had to write a blog, it was the worst of the worst and Felicity had to fix it IMMEDIATELY but apparently it's just fine for Kara.

[emarasmoak]

14 hours ago, RacerHo7 said:

I don't think it was intentional .  Remember when he was supposed to learn the lesson of what heroism was truly all about episodes ago?  Remember Slaver's Moon?  Remember even back before that?  How many different types of lessons does he need, and why does he need to be repeatedly taught them episode after episode?  

James was inspired to help, because he just wanted to help people.  

I find realistic that a guy that has been raised in this kind of environment would take some time in evolving to a superhero and have clear ideas of why he wants to do that. I think that this slow character development for Mon-El is intentional. My feeling about Mon-El's character has always been that he was written as a flawed character that would take a lot of time to show character development into a hero.
 

Spoiler

This has been confirmed by this interview:

https://t.co/WX9YdxBP7f

"In this version, they wanted Mon-El to have a bit more of a hero's journey, where he starts almost incapable of being the person that everyone knows he is capable of being, and being the hero he will ultimately become. A good starting point for him is something that is the opposite of full hero, which is frat boy and selfish and self-centered. He has somewhere to go, so by the end of the season and into next season, he's still growing and evolving and becoming the hero". "In Season 2, they wanted to have someone take that journey and who is fully capable of becoming what Supergirl is already. And Kara having someone to mentor and then also be love interest.... All of that complicates the characters a little bit more and gives Kara a lot to react to".

Basically he will still learning to be a hero into Season 3, so yes, I think that they plan that this evolution to superhero takes a lot of time, which I find much more realistic.

This character evolution has also been mentioned in other interviews like this one:

https://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/supergirl-chris-wood-on-mon-els-heros-journey/

And don't think that we can say that James wanted to be a hero only because he wanted to help people. He said that he started with Guardian because he didn't want to feel powerless again (remember that chapter when his camera was broken). And he certainly loves getting recognision as a hero (remember that episode when he tried to get Snapper publishing a paper about Guardian and not about Supergirl). So no, James is not being Guardian only because he wants to help people. Just like Mon-El is mostly doing it because his idea of heroism is mixed up with his feelings about Kara, but there are other reasons for it as of now, such as his shame of being the prince of Daxam and a bad person and because he wants to prove to himself that he was spared for a reason.

I am ok with the idea that heroes can have motivations different from "helping to people" to start their path to heroism. Many people in the Flarrowverse started like that and evolved to more selfless superheroes.

Edited March 22, 2017 by emarasmoak

[emarasmoak]

14 hours ago, stealinghome said:

 I actually rather liked Mon-El telling his parents off, except that's the first time we've ever seen him have any meaningful reflection on how bad Daxam sucked.

Does he feel at all guilty for what he was party to on Daxam or is it just kind of like "shrug, yeah I guess I did some shitty things on Daxam, too bad, oooh potstickers!"?

In the Star Crossed episode Mon-El told his parents that he detested who he was in Daxam and that thinking about his life there made him physically ill. This looks a lot like guilt to me.

He hasn't given a POV about his life on Daxam until Star Crossed because they wanted to keep the secret that all the audience had already guessed so this is the reason why it hasn't come up before. I would hope for him to express more his POV about this now that his backstory has come up to light, but will not happen because he is the love interest and it doesn't happen in the Flarrowverse (evidence: Felicity or Iris' POVs compared to Oliver's or Barry's).

Edited March 22, 2017 by emarasmoak

[AudienceofOne]

I personally don't get the Mon-El hate at all. I think his character is one of the better written ones on the show, especially compared to James' godawful 'hero' plotline. The fact is, that young people brought up in an entitled, privileged position in a repressive society often don't see what's wrong with the society they live in until they step outside of it. And having some self-righteous neighbour preach at them makes them worse, not better. To compare him to the Martians is ridiculous. His parents weren't actively slaughtering a race en masse, they were just the top of a social order. We're pretty well the same these days. But I don't see most people advocating for improved wages, increased health care, refunding of education and an increase in the foreign aid budget to ensure those things happen in poorer countries as well. The US just elected Trump FFS. And that's not a political statement (sorry, mods!) just a reminder that we're all entitled and privileged in our countries. We all benefit from the wage slavery of the rest of the world. And most of us are oblivious to it as well.

[JapMo]

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Mon El is the Laurel Lance of this show, someone the network wants but who diminishes the show overall to have him in it.  It's like they expect him to fill Callista Flockhart's shoes in terms of importance on the show and while he's sucked the life out of Kara's characterization, it's not working.

To me, it's Kara that sucks the life out of Mon-El.  There was maybe one or two references at the very beginning, when Mon-El just started on the show, that he would balk at Kara's criticism that he wasn't acting like a superhero where he would say, 'what if I don't want to be one?'   I always hoped that was the direction they were going, where he didn't want to have anything to do with heroics and just wanted to be an average guy and stay away from bossy Kara, who as he said once was hyper critical.  Then maybe he saves someone by chance, or stops a crime just because he happened to be there, and slowly you see him doing more things on the sly.  That kind of long term build up, showing them bickering and taking snipes at each other all the time, would have then made the natural segue into eventually putting them together.  I like them, but the writers cut too many corners in order to fit their timetable. 

[AudienceofOne]

38 minutes ago, JapMo said:

 I like them, but the writers cut too many corners in order to fit their timetable. 

Yes. I can see that. They did the same thing on Flash where they cut corners in the relationships there for the same reasons. I like the idea of the slow burn better but considering the quality of writing of characterisation on these shows, it's no surprise they didn't take the time to build it properly. I mean, look at James. His "but I want to be a hero too" thing was completely out of left field. And remains kind of dumb.

[stealinghome]

58 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

To compare him to the Martians is ridiculous. His parents weren't actively slaughtering a race en masse, they were just the top of a social order. 

2x16 made it clear that Daxam held slaves and kidnapped children to be those slaves. I understand what you're saying but to me, being part of a system that's into slavery+kidnapping goes beyond "just at the top of a social order in a position of privilege." (Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that we all benefit from privilege in some way, but straight-up slavery and kidnapping is on a different level to me.)

[JapMo]

21 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

1 hour ago, AudienceofOne said:

To compare him to the Martians is ridiculous. His parents weren't actively slaughtering a race en masse, they were just the top of a social order. 

2x16 made it clear that Daxam held slaves and kidnapped children to be those slaves. I understand what you're saying but to me, being part of a system that's into slavery+kidnapping goes beyond "just at the top of a social order in a position of privilege." (Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that we all benefit from privilege in some way, but straight-up slavery and kidnapping is on a different level to me.)

Yes, they made it clear......from Kara's standpoint.  A twelve year old girl's mind who was influenced by what her parents told her.  This is what I would love for the writers to delve into - Kara's prejudice against the Daxamites.  She told Queen Rhea that she could admit that Krypton made a lot of mistakes.  Yeah...like the tiny boo boo that they caused the planet of Daxam to be wiped out.  Oops, sorry.  Why is it OK to be disgusted with Mon-El for being born into that kind of society and grow up being shielded from all the bad things, etc, so that's all he's ever seen, but not ding Kara for continuing to believe the stereotype that ALL Daxamites are good-for-nothing partiers and sex fiends?  Mon-El works 2 jobs. 

[RacerHo7]

14 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Yeah, Mon-El's redemption arc has been written very poorly, and I'm not sure how much I can buy the "but his upbringing made him do it!" excuse because he's a grown-ass man, however much of a frat boy he acts like. Let me preface this by acknowledging that we are all products of our environment (nurture) and that I get that Mon-El is supposed to be in the middle of his redemption arc, not a finished product yet. HOWEVER. Someone on tumblr--I can't find the post now or I'd link to it--made the excellent point that the show has presented us with not just one but TWO characters this season, in Lena and M'gann, that grew up in shitty environments and didn't need someone to hold their hand and guide them to the right path 74959 times to overcome the poor nurture they received. Lena grew up in a household full of crazy genocidal xenophobia, but has steadfastly rejected the excesses of the other Luthors' hatred and murderousness all on her own because she knows that their ideology is wrong. M'gann was basically raised in a Space Nazi society but realized it was wrong all on her own and broke free (and has since gone back to try to make Mars a better society and to atone for her past misdeeds...ahem). If they can have a moral compass all on their own and break free of how they were raised, I'm not impressed by Mon-El needing Kara to nag him into doing the same. He's a grown man.

And this is also where I go back to the show telling us things instead of showing us things. I actually rather liked Mon-El telling his parents off, except that's the first time we've ever seen him have any meaningful reflection on how bad Daxam sucked. Where was this outrage before? Did he realize when he lived on Daxam how crappy things were and just went along with it because he profited from it? Because that's horrible. And if he didn't realize, why didn't we see him coming to this realization on Earth? Why is everything about impressing Kara instead of meaningful self-reflection? Does he feel at all guilty for what he was party to on Daxam or is it just kind of like "shrug, yeah I guess I did some shitty things on Daxam, too bad, oooh potstickers!"? Because it feels like Door #2 right now. BrChris Wood is trying hard but he can't sell that much of an about-face when there's been zero build-up to it. I too kind of liked that he told his parents that he's better around Kara regardless of whether they're together, it was a step in the right direction...that the show then immediately erased by having him say to Kara "I want to be a hero to hang out with you!" Sigh. 

I have to say, the more we find out about Daxam, the less I am inclined to judge Kryptonians for judging them. I'm not saying Kryptonians aren't snooty and self-righteous, but I'm also pretty sure that a strong rejection of slavery, kidnapping, and an oppressive monarchy is...actually the correct response to have to all three of those things?

I agree with everything in this post, especially the contrast to M'gann, because she was engaging in true horrors, and made a choice.  She didn't just run away, she helped to free people, and then left.  Then, we have her going back to try and make things better.  She didn't do it to 'impress someone.'  She did it because it was the right thing to do. That's a true redemption arc.  She tried to help the people that she was brought up to believe that she should destroy.  How many slaves did Mon-el try to free? How many times did he try to help Kara or anyone else, just because he felt a need to do what was right, rather than just to impress the girl?  

The problem with Mon-el's story and it being tied to Kara, is that they are diminishing her as a Superhero.  Where is her moral outrage that he didn't do something to help his people before he left, and doesn't seem to care about helping them now?  What about what was done (a person was killed), so that he could selfishly leave Daxam, and again his general lack of concern?  If he were truly 'redeemed,' he would have told his story to her, instead of being caught in a lie.  Of course, Kara seems more concerned about him lying about being the prince, and doesn't seem concerned about his past, or present behavior all that much (since she forgives him so easily).

This is Kara Zor-el, not just some random woman. Would they have Superman be with Lois if she was like Mon-el?  Would they have Barry be with Iris on the Flash, if she was like Mon-el?  I don't think so.  Both of  those women would be considered unworthy of those men.  But you can have a man behave like Mon-el,  and we're supposed to believe that he is worthy of Supergirl.  They didn't have to write him this way.  They chose to (since tv Mon-el is nothing like comic book Mon-el who is actually a very likable character).  Why would they think a selfish 'frat boy" is a good love story for one of the most iconic female superheroes?

[RacerHo7]

12 minutes ago, JapMo said:

Yes, they made it clear......from Kara's standpoint.  A twelve year old girl's mind who was influenced by what her parents told her.  This is what I would love for the writers to delve into - Kara's prejudice against the Daxamites.  She told Queen Rhea that she could admit that Krypton made a lot of mistakes.  Yeah...like the tiny boo boo that they caused the planet of Daxam to be wiped out.  Oops, sorry.  Why is it OK to be disgusted with Mon-El for being born into that kind of society and grow up being shielded from all the bad things, etc, so that's all he's ever seen, but not ding Kara for continuing to believe the stereotype that ALL Daxamites are good-for-nothing partiers and sex fiends?  Mon-El works 2 jobs. 

In the comics, Daxam is a xenophobic race that actually looks down on other aliens.  Kryptonians are not.  They are open and welcoming and came to that place after their own messed up history.  So the idea that we're supposed to see Kara's prejudices would probably make people like me, who know, and like the comics that these stories are supposed to reflect, rage a bit.  Daxam was part of the Dominator invasion of Earth (until they decided they were being used).  Daxam engaged in countless wars. 

Also, this isn't even Lar Gand/Mon-el/Valor.  This guy is some random creation with the same name as one of the most powerful families of Krypton (because whoever wrote the story didn't know why Valor had the name Mon-el).  The show runners know they're getting criticism for screwing up Valor, because they've mentioned it.

[iMonrey]

So wait . . . the Daxamites have Star Trek beaming technology? Does the DEO have beaming technology too? Because they blandly informed Mon-El that he was about to be beamed aboard the Daxam ship like it was no big deal. Wouldn't this technology have come in awfully handy before? Have we seen it used before? If so I cannot recall but it seems like something the DEO should be all over for practical purposes.

[JapMo]

2 hours ago, RacerHo7 said:

In the comics, Daxam is a xenophobic race that actually looks down on other aliens.  Kryptonians are not.  They are open and welcoming and came to that place after their own messed up history.  So the idea that we're supposed to see Kara's prejudices would probably make people like me, who know, and like the comics that these stories are supposed to reflect, rage a bit.  Daxam was part of the Dominator invasion of Earth (until they decided they were being used).  Daxam engaged in countless wars. 

Also, this isn't even Lar Gand/Mon-el/Valor.  This guy is some random creation with the same name as one of the most powerful families of Krypton (because whoever wrote the story didn't know why Valor had the name Mon-el).  The show runners know they're getting criticism for screwing up Valor, because they've mentioned it.

Thanks, Racer.  I only have history as a kid reading my brother's Superman comics.  (He swears he would be a millionaire now if our mom hadn't gotten sick of stumbling over his collection and threw it in the trash, LOL). 

[stealinghome]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

So wait . . . the Daxamites have Star Trek beaming technology? Does the DEO have beaming technology too? Because they blandly informed Mon-El that he was about to be beamed aboard the Daxam ship like it was no big deal. Wouldn't this technology have come in awfully handy before? Have we seen it used before? If so I cannot recall but it seems like something the DEO should be all over for practical purposes.

But then we couldn't have fun "race against the clock to save a life!"-type scenes. ;)

This is why I find the overall introduction of more aliens to ultimately have harmed the show this season. Alex's gun aside (which I love as a running gag), it seems like the aliens all should have brought to the planet WAY more technology that the DEO can use to fight other aliens. Also spaceships--if freaking Cadmus has spaceships, how does the DEO not? The aliens also make Supergirl/Superman/MM less interesting because they're much less unique now. I wish the writers had thought through the alien stuff this season at greater length.

[JapMo]

3 hours ago, RacerHo7 said:

Where is her moral outrage that he didn't do something to help his people before he left, and doesn't seem to care about helping them now?  What about what was done (a person was killed), so that he could selfishly leave Daxam, and again his general lack of concern?

Correct me if I'm wrong, somebody, but wasn't the scene from Monday night about how Mon-El escaped Daxam slightly different than the one they showed when Mon-El was first being interrogated at the DEO and he told them he was the Prince's guard?  I think that's when Kara said how bad the Prince was.  It was maybe episode 3 or 4 this season.  I just recently watched the first one again and they did show that he thought the other guy (who turned out to kill the Kryptonian) was going to get in the pod, but that guy said he didn't know how to program it so Mon-El jumped in to do it and then the guy pressed some buttons on the outside of the pod and it closed on Mon-El.  He then raised his arm or something which looked hurt and said he wouldn't be able to fly it, and that he needed to stay with his people, or something.  If memory serves me, the girl in the bed was screaming, but I don't believe she begged for Mon-El's help like Monday's clip.  Also, as they were running past people who had been hit by debris, Mon-El wanted to stop but the other guy pulled him away.  So if I'm right and it was different, why would they want to show Mon-El in a worse light?  It wasn't significantly worse but he came off better on the previous telling.  

[stealinghome]

I think the idea is supposed to be that the flashback we saw earlier this season was a lie Mon-El told to cover his identity and make himself look better. Last night was the true story (which paints him in a worse light, hence why he didn't tell it earlier).

[JapMo]

1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

I think the idea is supposed to be that the flashback we saw earlier this season was a lie Mon-El told to cover his identity and make himself look better. Last night was the true story (which paints him in a worse light, hence why he didn't tell it earlier).

Funny thing is...it didn't make him look that much better, LOL.

[RobertDeSneero]

I might have more to say later, but for now, I will note what I said a few episodes ago.

On 3/2/2017 at 0:43 AM, RobertDeSneero said:

If I were a writer on this show, Mon-El pointing out that everything was a bit too lucky/perfect to Winn, then Winn's alien love interest showing up would be a case of foreshadowing.

[RacerHo7]

7 hours ago, stealinghome said:

I think the idea is supposed to be that the flashback we saw earlier this season was a lie Mon-El told to cover his identity and make himself look better. Last night was the true story (which paints him in a worse light, hence why he didn't tell it earlier).

Yes.  He lied, which from his POV makes sense.  The truth isn't so nice.  It's not surprising that he lied.  M'gann lied too to hide that she was a White Martian when J'onn first met her.  They both lied to cover their past to people who they believed would harshly judge those pasts.  I get the initial lying. With M'gann though, we saw her guilt that was basically destroying her, and she helped, even though she knew it would cost her.  With Mon-el, we didn't see any guilt or concern for his people or his world, even when he was just by himself.  Maybe if they had shown him having guilt over what he had done, and portrayed him differently (not as the arrogant frat boy), then I would have seen him differently as a character.  As he stands now on the show, I just see him as selfish and immature, still thinking about his own wants and needs.

[JapMo]

11 hours ago, RacerHo7 said:

As he stands now on the show, I just see him as selfish and immature, still thinking about his own wants and needs.

Which is why they should have kept them broken up (she could have just said thank you that he helped save her), and him going with his parents, at least for a while, to find other Daxamites and try to repopulate their planet.  I like both of them, but I feel Kara gets painted as a saint, when in fact she drags him down too.  It's like he's always looking back to her, like a little kid, seeking approval.  She continually scolds him like a child, and then he acts like one.  Hank values his input at the DEO, but not Kara.  He specifically said he could handle going up in the ship alone.  They didn't call for Supergirl...they called for Mon-El.  So what does she do?  She disregards his request, and goes along with him so he won't be there alone.......the exact same thing Mon-El did with her when they went to that slave planet, only to have her bust his chops the rest of the episode for not listening to her.     

[mac123x]

Teri Hatcher:  something about how Mon-El will eventually run into that judgemental and unforgiving nature of Kryptonians

Supergirl:  Scoffs at the stereotyping

[Fast forward]

Supergirl is judgemental and unforgiving because Mon-El lied to her, a lie which she provoked with her racist comments about Daxomites and her judgemental snark about the royal family.  Way to prove the Queen right, Cara.

 

I honestly said, "wow, what a bitch" when she dumped Mon-El.  And I don't really care for their blandy-mcbland relationship.

[RacerHo7]

On 3/23/2017 at 9:43 AM, JapMo said:

Which is why they should have kept them broken up (she could have just said thank you that he helped save her), and him going with his parents, at least for a while, to find other Daxamites and try to repopulate their planet.  I like both of them, but I feel Kara gets painted as a saint, when in fact she drags him down too.  It's like he's always looking back to her, like a little kid, seeking approval.  She continually scolds him like a child, and then he acts like one.  Hank values his input at the DEO, but not Kara.  He specifically said he could handle going up in the ship alone.  They didn't call for Supergirl...they called for Mon-El.  So what does she do?  She disregards his request, and goes along with him so he won't be there alone.......the exact same thing Mon-El did with her when they went to that slave planet, only to have her bust his chops the rest of the episode for not listening to her.     

Kara has been written horribly 2 dimensional and even OOC this season, since the first episode of the season.  It was the first thing that I noticed that had me concerned, and it's gotten progressively worse over the season.  When you have a complex character like Kara Zor El (and she was more complex last season), being written in such a manner, then you have a character who has regressed.  Kara wasn't perfect last season, and did some dumb things then as well. However, there was at least a reason that made sense other than 'plot demands it,'  which seems to be the 'go to' for most things this season. Kara this season isn't really Kara Zor El.  I don't know who she is, but I'd like the other Kara back (and even moreseo, I would love for these show runner to spend some time with actual Supergirl comics so they can learn something about the character).  

Kara isn't the only one to suffer though.  Hank is the MM, and he's being written in the most head scratching way this season as well.  They've all been dumbed down (or the writers forget their abilities), and I don't know if that's a reflection of the new network, and change of focus, but it is annoying and sloppy.  When I've got children asking questions about why adults they know on this show are doing 'dumb things,' that the kids can figure out rather quickly, then writers really need to think about what they are putting onscreen. 

[Locutus]

It seems like Mon-el is only succeeding due to Chris Woods. By the way, have they ever explained just what powers he has on earth. Since Daxamites have a weakness for lead under a yellow sun is he basically superboy-lite? If even that, lead is all over the place. And yes I know bullets can kill him, re: Cadmus, but can he super speed around them with enough warning?

Edited March 25, 2017 by Locutus

[legaleagle53]

5 hours ago, Locutus said:

It seems like Mon-el is only succeeding due to Chris Woods. By the way, have they ever explained just what powers he has on earth. Since Daxamites have a weakness for lead under a yellow sun is he basically superboy-lite? If even that, lead is all over the place. And yes I know bullets can kill him, re: Cadmus, but can he super speed around them with enough warning?

He seems to have super-strength, invulnerability (except to lead, just as Kara is invulnerable to everything except Kryptonite), and super-speed. He doesn't have any of Kara's super-senses (no heat vision, x-ray vision, telescopic vision, microscopic vision, or super-hearing), nor does he have her super-breath  (which is odd, because that should be one of his muscular powers, just as it is hers), and it's unclear whether he has the power of flight.  I think what they're going for is giving him the same power level that the original Golden Age Superman had when he was first created back in 1938 -- Superman at that time couldn't even really fly yet; he could only leap about 1/8 of a mile.

Edited March 25, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Rushmoras]

I have a question. So, will the next episode will be on Flash (I mean Supergirl's dreamsequence and Music Meister), or will it be divided (Music Meister on Flash, and Supergirl's dreamsequence on Supergirl)?

[ketose]

39 minutes ago, Rushmoras said:

I have a question. So, will the next episode will be on Flash (I mean Supergirl's dreamsequence and Music Meister), or will it be divided (Music Meister on Flash, and Supergirl's dreamsequence on Supergirl)?

Nope. This is a way for the CW to force Supergirl viewers to also watch The Flash. I assume on the next Supergirl, they will only make some vague reference to Barry Allen helping her out.

[Rushmoras]

1 hour ago, ketose said:

Nope. This is a way for the CW to force Supergirl viewers to also watch The Flash. I assume on the next Supergirl, they will only make some vague reference to Barry Allen helping her out.

Well, that's too bad for me then, because I can only stand one Berlanti's nonsense at at time and wont be watching Flash.

[Oreo2234]

Quote

He seems to have super-strength, invulnerability (except to lead, just as Kara is invulnerable to everything except Kryptonite), and super-speed. He doesn't have any of Kara's super-senses (no heat vision, x-ray vision, telescopic vision, microscopic vision, or super-hearing), nor does he have her super-breath  (which is odd, because that should be one of his muscular powers, just as it is hers), and it's unclear whether he has the power of flight.  I think what they're going for is giving him the same power level that the original Golden Age Superman had when he was first created back in 1938 -- Superman at that time couldn't even really fly yet; he could only leap about 1/8 of a mile.

I hope they keep his powers on this level and don't give him Kara's senses or even just flight. That would make him to similar to her and Superman and he would probably overshadow her since the writers don't seem to know when to reign it in with him. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by Oreo2234

[MarkHB]

12 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Well, that's too bad for me then, because I can only stand one Berlanti's nonsense at at time and wont be watching Flash.

Fair enough, but the only thing you really need to know about that episode is

Spoiler

Kara and Mon-El made up at the end.  She had less than 24 hours of being incredibly mad at him.

[Mrs. DuRona]

On 3/21/2017 at 1:53 AM, Dobian said:

Okay so I have to watch the Flash to continue with the stupid ending from this episode?  I don't watch the Flash.  Meh.

Yeah, Mr. D and I were pretty annoyed at that.  ALL the crossover episodes are happening on the Flash.  Are the numbers down for that show or something?  I actually was intrigued by this one, but not enough to try to navigate an episode of a show that I have never seen.  :/  After the Flash crossover episode in season 1, we were briefly tempted to catch up with that show, but lost interest quickly.

I actually kinda like Mon-El.  He's growing on me.  A "reluctant hero" who will eventually come into his own.  I also thought the opening scene with him and Kara on the couch  was all kinds of adorable.

Overall, this season has been all over the place, but this episode was actually kind of interesting.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

If Mon-El was in stasis for 34 years or so, shouldn't his parents be a lot older, like in their 70's or 80's? If he was 25 or so when he left Daxam, they would have been nearly 50 at the time.

[GHScorpiosRule]

15 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

If Mon-El was in stasis for 34 years or so, shouldn't his parents be a lot older, like in their 70's or 80's? If he was 25 or so when he left Daxam, they would have been nearly 50 at the time.

Maybe they're like the Kryptionians, and age verrrrry slowly?? To take a page from Batman Beyond, when they did a Justice League episode/s, fifty years had passed, Bruce Wayne was 85ish, but Supes only looked he'd aged 20 years.

Not that I credit any of the writers on this show with anything, but it's the only explanation that came to mind when trying to think about how/why/eh?

[stealinghome]

But Clark and Kara only age slowly because of Earth's yellow sun, right? I thought Clark mentioned that as a superpower side-effect when he was in town earlier this season.

I do think the age of Mon-El's parents seems to be a plot hole thus far--the writers explained why he hasn't aged, but as far as I can tell Rhea and Lar Gand really should be in their 70s. I do wonder if we'll find out more about how they escaped Daxam and why they weren't with Mon-El when the planet died, since they kind of suspiciously yadda yadda'd over that part of the story when they were all sharing history in this episode, and maybe why they haven't aged is part of that story.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Stop with the Logical Reasoning, @stealinghome! It makes my noggin ache!!!???

[JapMo]

On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 10:43 AM, Rushmoras said:

Well, that's too bad for me then, because I can only stand one Berlanti's nonsense at at time and wont be watching Flash.

It worked for me when Flash showed up on Supergirl the first season.  I thought he was so cute, I started watching The Flash.  I never read any comics about The Flash when I was younger so didn't know who the character was...actually thought he was Spiderman.

[Rushmoras]

13 hours ago, JapMo said:

It worked for me when Flash showed up on Supergirl the first season.  I thought he was so cute, I started watching The Flash.  I never read any comics about The Flash when I was younger so didn't know who the character was...actually thought he was Spiderman.

Yeah, well, I'm not a woman nor gay, so my preference is cute girls even though they are starring in utter nonsensical plots :D

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 3/26/2017 at 9:49 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

If Mon-El was in stasis for 34 years or so, shouldn't his parents be a lot older, like in their 70's or 80's? If he was 25 or so when he left Daxam, they would have been nearly 50 at the time.

Aside from the possibility of Daxamites aging slowly, there's also such possibilities as

a) the parents were in stasis for a good portion of the time that Mon-El was

b) the parents had sweet plastic surgery options available to them, given their wealth and the advanced tech

c) Daxamites (or elite Daxamites, anyway) have different ways of creating and raising children than sex-->kids. For all we know, Mon-El was born artificially and accelerated to be a 25-year-old looking guy.

[GHScorpiosRule]

13 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

c) Daxamites (or elite Daxamites, anyway) have different ways of creating and raising children than sex-->kids. For all we know, Mon-El was born artificially and accelerated to be a 25-year-old looking guy.

Well this option wasn't the case since in last night's episode

Rhea talked about how Mon-El would cling to her legs and knees as a little boy whenever she would have to leave for work and she would have to pull him away. And how she missed him doing that. And Mon-El didn't say anything about not remembering doing that, so, we have to assume he wasn't accelerated to adulthood once he was born.

Edited March 28, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[stealinghome]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Aside from the possibility of Daxamites aging slowly, there's also such possibilities as

a) the parents were in stasis for a good portion of the time that Mon-El was

b) the parents had sweet plastic surgery options available to them, given their wealth and the advanced tech

c) Daxamites (or elite Daxamites, anyway) have different ways of creating and raising children than sex-->kids. For all we know, Mon-El was born artificially and accelerated to be a 25-year-old looking guy.

I think I'm going with Option B! ;)

[John Potts]

 The more of the Kryptonians we see, the more it seems the Daxamites were superior. So far (and I'm prepared to believe they'll turn out to be Evil All Along), they have managed to save more of their people (yes, two of those were the King & Queen - but the ship was called a cruiser and according to Wiki, the USN Ticonderoga class cruiser has a crew compliment of 330 - now even if it's only a fraction of that, it's more than the two Krypton saved*), they're broad minded enough to accept that their son is dating the daughter of their planetary enemy and Queen Lois was pretty gracious to Kara, even when Kara was being fairly rude and considering the destruction of Krypton caused devastation on Daxam. Even the scene where Mon-El was being rescued didn't bother me as much as some people: I have no trouble believing ANY bodyguard would be equally ruthless in ensuring they got their charge to safety (I'm sure the Secret Service would be similarly ruthless in getting the first daughter to safety, or SO14 in protecting Prince William). The only one who comes off as a jerk is the one I'm supposed to be rooting for - Mon-El comes across as whiny rather than a social reformer. Though I do wish Kara would stop trying to complain that he isn't a hero if he doesn't want to be one: just because that's what Kara chose to do with her powers doesn't mean Mon-El has to (and it seems odd that he "has to" do his hero-ing for free - firemen or soldiers don't work for nothing but are still heroes - sounds pretty damn un-American to me!)

On ‎25‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 11:57 AM, legaleagle53 said:

giving him the same power level that the original Golden Age Superman had when he was first created back in 1938 -- Superman at that time couldn't even really fly yet; he could only leap about 1/8 of a mile.

"Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a steaming locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound - Superman!" (I think that was from the George Reeves Superman show).

On ‎22‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 2:14 PM, RacerHo7 said:

In the comics, Daxam is a xenophobic race that actually looks down on other aliens.  Kryptonians are not.  They are open and welcoming and came to that place after their own messed up history

I'm sure you're right (and that may well turn out to be the case in the show) - but for now, it just makes Kara look racist for blindly parroting every stereotype she learned about Daxam without any actual knowledge of it. None of the Daxamites she's actually met have fitted the stereotype as of yet (though they may turn villainous in future eps).

* Granted, more Kryptonians were saved (Non, Allura & co), but only by accident

[Cranberry]

No leader can be superior when they're purchasing slaves. That's not something Kara's parroting without knowledge, either; in the episode where she and Mon-El go to Slaver's Moon, it's he who says, "The locals call it Slaver's Moon. The royal family on Daxam used to buy their slaves here."

[stealinghome]

Yeah, I actually feel like it's a real problem that the writers seem to have moved the goalposts where Daxamite culture is concerned.

When they first introduced Mon-El, they implied that Kryptonian prejudice against Daxamites was just that--racial prejudice born out of the Daxamites being party people and Kryptonians being party poopers, essentially. And I thought it was legitimate to call that racism and was interested in the idea of Kara having to confront her own prejudices. But the past few episodes have done an about-face and actually, it seems like Kryptonian "prejudice" against Daxamites is based on the fact that they a) owned slaves, b) kidnapped said slaves, and c) had a ruling class that was generally oppressive of its entire people. And imo, opposing those things isn't being racist, it's having a principled moral-ethical-political stance. (NB: a show with better writers could have those two things co-exist. This is not that show.) Also, Rhea and Lar Gand and Mon-El copped to all those charges, so we know they're true.

I'm genuinely interested in Kara having to unlearn racial prejudices she learned from her parents. I'm NOT interested in Kara being labeled racist because she opposes slavery and kidnapping and general oppression, or in pretending like hating slavery somehow makes her the bad person in this equation.

Edited March 29, 2017 by stealinghome

[legaleagle53]

5 hours ago, John Potts said:

"Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a steaming locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound - Superman!" (I think that was from the George Reeves Superman show).

Yes, that's from the 50s/60s live-action Superman show.  The description of Superman's original power level that I set forth dates back 20 years before that.  By the time of the Superman show, the comic-book Superman's powers had evolved to the point that he was even able to travel through time by flying faster than light (he'd actually started doing that in the comics towards the end of the WWII era).

Edited March 30, 2017 by legaleagle53

[John Potts]

13 hours ago, Cranberry said:

in the episode where she and Mon-El go to Slaver's Moon, it's he who says, "The locals call it Slaver's Moon. The royal family on Daxam used to buy their slaves here."

Yes, but that covers a range of possibilities: it would be factually accurate to say, "Great Britain used to transport slaves from its African colonies to the USA," though that would only be true before about 1800 (at least on the British end: importing of slaves by the Southern states continued until the 1830s). But it's equally possible that Slaver's Moon is where the Daxamites bought their slaves "until last year when they got a better deal from Slave-mart." The trouble is, when you portray Supergirl as parroting anti-Daxamite propaganda which is (at best) based on 20 year old information, she looks more like a bigot than an unbiased observer.

Now it's entirely possible (indeed, I think quite likely) that Kara will be proved right about King Hercules & Queen Lois, but based on what we've seen onscreen, the former hypothesis is equally (if not more) tenable - if I didn't know that the show I was watching was called Supergirl, I would certainly think I was being guided to see Kara as being in the wrong.

[The Crazed Spruce]

15 hours ago, John Potts said:

"Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a steaming locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound - Superman!" (I think that was from the George Reeves Superman show).

 

10 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Yes, that's from the 50s/60s live-action Superman show.  The description of Superman's original power level that I set forth dates back 20 years before that.  By the time of the Superman show, the comic-book Superman's powers had evolved to the point that he was even able to travel through time by flying faster than light (he'd actually started doing that in the comics towards the end of the WWII era).

It's actually from the radio dramas from the 1940's, so it predates the TV show by a good decade or so. 

And we're getting off-topic....

[angora]

On 3/29/2017 at 5:43 PM, stealinghome said:

Yeah, I actually feel like it's a real problem that the writers seem to have moved the goalposts where Daxamite culture is concerned.

When they first introduced Mon-El, they implied that Kryptonian prejudice against Daxamites was just that--racial prejudice born out of the Daxamites being party people and Kryptonians being party poopers, essentially. And I thought it was legitimate to call that racism and was interested in the idea of Kara having to confront her own prejudices. But the past few episodes have done an about-face and actually, it seems like Kryptonian "prejudice" against Daxamites is based on the fact that they a) owned slaves, b) kidnapped said slaves, and c) had a ruling class that was generally oppressive of its entire people. And imo, opposing those things isn't being racist, it's having a principled moral-ethical-political stance. (NB: a show with better writers could have those two things co-exist. This is not that show.) Also, Rhea and Lar Gand and Mon-El copped to all those charges, so we know they're true.

I'm genuinely interested in Kara having to unlearn racial prejudices she learned from her parents. I'm NOT interested in Kara being labeled racist because she opposes slavery and kidnapping and general oppression, or in pretending like hating slavery somehow makes her the bad person in this equation.

ITA - I was really bummed when I realized they were changing the characterization from "Daxamites and Kryptonites have very different views/norms and both have prejudices against one another" to "Daxam was horrible, horrible place."  I don't have the comic book knowledge to say which would be closer to the truth, but I found option 1 way more interesting than option 2.  And on a related topic, when did Kara know that Daxam's hedonism was a tool used by the royal family to keep their people oppressed?  Did Mon-El tell her or had she already been aware of it?  And if she had, why did she react to early-season Mon-El as, "You're such a shallow frat-boy partier," instead of, "Don't you get that this whole way of life was orchestrated by your rulers to manipulate you?"

Side note - I felt Kara's anger at Mon-El's lie and difficulty coming to terms with who he used to be was very understandable, but the timing of this general (paraphrased) sentiment made me laugh.

Kara:  I can't believe you didn't tell me!

Mon-El:  But you would've never even talked to me if I'd told you I was the prince!

Kara:  You can't know that because you never gave me the chance!

(Two seconds later.)

Kara:  You're the prince, I can't even talk to you!

[Bruinsfan]

On 3/20/2017 at 8:55 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I want my old show back, and I hope Mon-Douche is gone by season's end.

And I also want a horsie.

Careful, on this show that could result in a future season where Benoist's next boyfriend (once Wood moves on to another costar) gets a multi-episode arc romancing Kara as Comet the Super Horse!

 

On 3/26/2017 at 10:33 PM, stealinghome said:

But Clark and Kara only age slowly because of Earth's yellow sun, right? I thought Clark mentioned that as a superpower side-effect when he was in town earlier this season.

Of course Clark had exactly zero examples of older Kryptonians to base that on, so it's entirely possibly that Kryptonian biology (or genetic manipulation of same) results in slowed aging after maturity.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Bruinsfan