Season 13: Speculation and Spoilers

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, thehepburn said:

Having said that, the meltdown that Peter is not F1 on that forum wasn't as nuclear as I thought it would be. Darn.

I think that's because there were quite a few who weren't as in love with Peter as others and were questioning the spoiler from the beginning. The Peter fans were just very loud and got louder with RS's "confirmation" that he was F1. But once that got blown to bits yesterday, the people who weren't on the Peter love train felt more comfortable to post why they weren't as enamored and didn't believe the initial spoiler. So there's kind of an even split right now. I definitely read some over the top reactions but I am surprised at the reactions other places. Some other sites are downright PISSED right now and especially at Rachel. 

[waving feather]

Well, Peter could still be the F1. Seems like RS may not be even 100% sure himself.

[Wings]

43 minutes ago, thehepburn said:

 

You mean the crazy, creepy spoilers forum? One of those posters also said that their source told them that Peter got the FIR, which was false, so dunno how good their source is. Having said that, the meltdown that Peter is not F1 on that forum wasn't as nuclear as I thought it would be. Darn.

Yeah, I hear you and lol!  Not a reliable source but just like a blind pig finds an acorn occasionally they can have a moment.  :^). 

Edited June 6, 2017 by wings707

[NeverLate]

Just now, waving feather said:

Well, Peter could still be the F1. Seems like RS may not be even 100% sure himself.

I'm glad. I think the show is mixing it up, so RS and his so called sources, don't know! 

[Wings]

1 minute ago, waving feather said:

Well, Peter could still be the F1. Seems like RS may not be even 100% sure himself.

So he is unsure?  

[KN2Blue]

8 minutes ago, thehepburn said:

 

You mean the crazy, creepy spoilers forum? One of those posters also said that their source told them that Peter got the FIR, which was false, so dunno how good their source is. Having said that, the meltdown that Peter is not F1 on that forum wasn't as nuclear as I thought it would be. Darn.

Lol. To be fair to them though the person who posted the initial spoiler that Peter was F1 is different from the two posters who are adamant that Peter won. The former (i.e. the person who posted about Peter) was actually stalking the night one contestants and it was one a previous contestant who claimed Peter got the first rose. They had screenshots and all, but took them down to protect that contestant from the wrath of TPTB. Then later on that same poster got into trouble on the site because they called Jack Stone's workplace to see if he had been let go, and apparently that was a little bit too much even for that site. 

Now the other two posters who claim Peter is the winner seem to have some sort of in with his circle perhaps? So who knows?

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, waving feather said:

Well, Peter could still be the F1. Seems like RS may not be even 100% sure himself.

The fact is unless Rachel pulls a Kaitlyn and spoils her own season or one of them (Rachel, Bryan or Peter) does something that is very telling, no one really knows for sure who she picked. I agree about RS not being sure and said as much on the previous page. His episode by episode spoilers were all over the place and it's clear he doesn't have a lot to go on this season. And I figured as much once he was taking so long to post the episode by episode spoilers. As for the other site and the two posters saying they have sources saying its Peter, well someone convinced some posters there last season that Kristina, Rachel, Whitney and I think Danielle M. or Danielle L. were the Final 4 on Nick's season. They also heard that Nick had eliminated Vanessa because she was causing trouble. Not so much. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[waving feather]

5 minutes ago, wings707 said:

So he is unsure?  

He said we would find out in two months that it's Bryan but the language he used in his whole blog sounded unsure to me. I think it's good there's no certainty, it keeps my interest in the show. Unlike last season where it was so obvious who Nick's F1 is without even reading the spoilers.

Edited June 6, 2017 by waving feather

[thehepburn]

As a reg Survivor viewer, I am used to analyzing the editing and the editing last nite was weird. Usually, they show a good portion of TB and the F1's conversation on each groupdate but they montaged BOTH Bryan and Peter. WTF? Maybe Eric is the F1?

 

J/K

Edited June 6, 2017 by thehepburn

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, thehepburn said:

As a reg Survivor viewer, I am used to analyzing the editing and the editing last nite was weird. Usually, they show a good portion of TB and the F1's conversation on each groupdate but they montaged BOTH Bryan and Peter. WTF? Maybe Eric is the F1?

Not always. The editing last season with Nick and Vanessa was really weird after they had a great 1 on 1. There was one group date that Vanessa was on where they never showed her and Nick talking once. And she also never got a group date rose for the entire season.  I think the producers are far more interested in focusing on drama and fake, staged crap like Lucas and Blake's nonsense, than actually showing the relationship between the lead and the F1. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Wings]

37 minutes ago, KN2Blue said:

Lol. To be fair to them though the person who posted the initial spoiler that Peter was F1 is different from the two posters who are adamant that Peter won. The former (i.e. the person who posted about Peter) was actually stalking the night one contestants and it was one a previous contestant who claimed Peter got the first rose. They had screenshots and all, but took them down to protect that contestant from the wrath of TPTB. Then later on that same poster got into trouble on the site because they called Jack Stone's workplace to see if he had been let go, and apparently that was a little bit too much even for that site. 

Now the other two posters who claim Peter is the winner seem to have some sort of in with his circle perhaps? So who knows?

Are they sleuthing/stalking for safe house visits?  They can shine in that arena.  Lol!  

Maybe we will get an airport pic from a traveler.  Those are spoiler gold in a situation like this. 

[KN2Blue]

Yeah it's fascinating how much they do find out each season. I think a lot of that talent is wasted because some of those posters go to incredible lengths to stalk/sleuth the contestants/locations etc. The persistence and dedication to that "craft" is something to behold. 

I believe the current plan is to sleuth for SHVs to prove/disprove Reality Steve's spoiler. So we'll see how that plays out. It might end up being the deciding factor for this season unless the show just relies on private planes to transport Rachel and her fiance to the SHVs.

I actually tend to love staying in the non-spoiled section though because there is less of the divisiveness that goes on in the other forums. Too many of the fans get way too invested in a particular contestant and then it devolves into this back and forth where the slightest infraction of the opposing contestant gets magnified to the nth degree. 

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, wings707 said:

Are they sleuthing/stalking for safe house visits?  They can shine in that arena.  Lol!  

They are and that's what led to one of the major red flags for members regarding the Peter as F1 spoiler. Apparently traditionally, the Bachelorette and her F1 spend the Memorial Holiday weekend together. Bryan was completely MIA for about four days. Now Peter was also unaccounted for for a few days and someone claimed a friend said he went on a business trip. But basically no one knew for sure where either Peter or Bryan was during those two-three days. Peter was liking a few things on social media and showing some activity but Bryan was radio silent. 

[1992austenlover]

9 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Not always. The editing last season with Nick and Vanessa was really weird after they had a great 1 on 1. There was one group date that Vanessa was on where they never showed her and Nick talking once. And she also never got a group date rose for the entire season.  I think the producers are far more interested in focusing on drama and fake, staged crap like Lucas and Blake's nonsense, than actually showing the relationship between the lead and the F1. 

Amen. I'm still a little bitter about the hatchet editing job that they did on Nick and Vanessa's relationship last season. I mean, yeah, they had some great moments together but I still hate the fact that the editors clearly sacrificed some time showing more romantic moments between them in order highlight the hardships/challenges in their relationship so that they could try and keep the viewers guessing until the end (even though it was obvious from their first one-on-one date that Nick was going to pick Vanessa all along). I guess at this point I'm worried about the editing job that is currently happening with Rachel and Bryan's relationship; if she does indeed pick Bryan then the only thing that I'm seeing right now is a deep physical attraction between them which is not going to convince me that they are in it for the long haul. Seriously, every time I watch them together I have flashbacks of Josh and Amanda aggressively making-out on Bachelor in Paradise and we all know how that ended up. I guess I just hope to see some deeper conversations between them and see them build a genuine connection in the future but I also fully expect their relationship to be downplayed and I'm concerned that their storyline will turn into Rachel constantly questioning if their relationship is purely physical or not (she hasn't started saying this yet but I can definitely see this being a manufactured storyline that will create some doubt in the viewers' minds that she picks him in the end). I mean, I like Rachel and so I'm hoping for the best and I'm really hoping that I grow to like this Bryan guy over time...but right now I'm just not that impressed. I hope that it is editing and not the guy, himself, that makes me a little wary of this relationship. But it is still early days so I'm just going to give it some time...

[Wings]

21 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

They are and that's what led to one of the major red flags for members regarding the Peter as F1 spoiler. Apparently traditionally, the Bachelorette and her F1 spend the Memorial Holiday weekend together. Bryan was completely MIA for about four days. Now Peter was also unaccounted for for a few days and someone claimed a friend said he went on a business trip. But basically no one knew for sure where either Peter or Bryan was during those two-three days. Peter was liking a few things on social media and showing some activity but Bryan was radio silent. 

Questions always leap to mind.  Was Peter told to show some activity?  What kind of a business trip?  Fishy.  Was Bryan told to lay low by production?   It can go either way.  It is fun having some doubt.   They missed an opportunity to have stake outs at LAX though.  They are slipping.  

Edited June 6, 2017 by wings707

[JenE4]

17 hours ago, Mondayeve said:

 

Just a speculation but could TPTB  have Peter as the next lead locked and loaded even before the season started and story boarded it to have Rachel get to the end with him and then let him go, while she can pick from all the other suitors?  He belonged to ABC even if she liked him.

Wasn't Rachel herself picked as the next bachelorette when she did her season so she it was designed for her be let go by Nick?

This is a VERY good point! Nick was constantly GUSHING about Rachel, not only in his talking heads but even to her. It made absolutely no sense when he sent her home because she was "clearly" his favorite and had nary a doubt about her. If Rachel doesn't express the slightest doubt about Peter, then this might just be the new production technique.

12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Here's a link to the tweet.  He's a producer so reliable.  Or "reliable" depending on your perspective.  But the tweet is pretty vague.

After watching tonight, I'm curious to know how Eric makes it to the final 3.  Peter, Bryan and Dean, 3 of the final 4, seem to be out of the drama while Eric is right in the center of it.  Some of that is on his other housemates but some of it is on him and his insecurity.  He just seems so different.

Eric is top 4?!?! I mean, I've been reading these names over and over, but until last night I never knew there was an Eric in the crowd. I also just determined that Bryan and Alex are two different people--but they need to be sitting together for me to tell them apart. Are we sure there isn't ANOTHER Eric--like maybe this is Eric P and there's an Eric G hiding in the crowd? Out of all of these guys, I can't fathom how Eric fits in as a good match for Rachel. I know, I'm late to the game on this observation, lol.

[Wings]

I don't rule anything out anymore.  Rachael does not strike me as someone willing to play along with their games but maybe.  CH said she was controlling, I took that to mean no funny business like taking Peter to the end pretending she was smitten.  Buy hey, it has been done before.  Could be this was all layed out for her before signing the contract.  

Edited June 6, 2017 by wings707

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, wings707 said:

So he is unsure?  

He is unsure about a lot of this season but uses strong language about Bryan being the final rose.  Thing is....he used similar language when declaring it was Peter a few weeks ago as well.   Now, I tend to think he wouldn't have changed his pick if he didn't have a few sources he felt were solid feeding him that his first choice was wrong.   But I also don't think it's totally off base to question his flip flop, especially since he has some holes this season.

Now, I would love to be in the wishful thinking category believing RS is wrong because I like Rachel and I like Peter and I'd love for this to be the one season I watch of any of these shows and for it to end in a couple I like...as opposed to Bryan and Rachel and potentially Peter (as bach) with someone I don't like but I admit, I'm not holding out much hope.

3 hours ago, wings707 said:

Are they sleuthing/stalking for safe house visits?  They can shine in that arena.  Lol!  

Yes.  What is it....every two weeks?  So maybe one this weekend.  (That site is really like going down the rabbit hole.  I need to break free.)

As for that forums first impression rose fake spoiler....it was wrong.  But Peter did get the first rose in the ceremony so it could also just be mistaken/confused.  Especially if the source left early.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Irlandesa

[Wings]

13 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

(That site is really like going down the rabbit hole.  I need to break free.)

I agree with your entire post.  I liked the idea of Rachael and Peter, too.  I would like to say I have broken free but look at me,  I relish others bringing their crazy here so maybe not so free.   LOL 

Edited June 6, 2017 by wings707

[truthaboutluv]

I'm not invested at all so a part of me is kind of hoping it's Bryan just because I think some have really gotten on this whole "Peter is perfect and a saint and Bryan is the most awful man in the world" train and I think both sides are over the top. Is Bryan probably a famewhore, much like 90 percent of the people who come on this show, sure. But is Peter this perfect specimen of man, in my opinion, uh no. So far I see a nice, decent looking guy who doesn't seem that into Rachel (in comparison to her gushing), while with Bryan I see a chill guy who lays it a little too thick with the kissing. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Wings]

16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Here's a link to the tweet.  He's a producer so reliable.  Or "reliable" depending on your perspective.  But the tweet is pretty vague.

After watching tonight, I'm curious to know how Eric makes it to the final 3.  Peter, Bryan and Dean, 3 of the final 4, seem to be out of the drama while Eric is right in the center of it.  Some of that is on his other housemates but some of it is on him and his insecurity.  He just seems so different.

The only reason I can see Eric there is, she has to bring someone along to fill that slot so why not the feisty man child?    Clearly a producer move.  

Edited June 6, 2017 by wings707

[Wings]

12 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I'm not invested at all so a part of me is kind of hoping it's Bryan just because I think some have really gotten on this whole "Peter is perfect and a saint and Bryan is the most awful man in the world" train and I think both sides are over the top. Is Bryan probably a famewhore, much like 90 percent of the people who come on this show, sure. But is Peter this perfect specimen of man, in my opinion, uh no. So far I see a nice, decent looking guy who doesn't seem that into Rachel (in comparison to her gushing), while with Bryan I see a chill guy who lays it a little too thick with the kissing. 

I like Peter but don't think he is perfect nor a saint.  There is some middle ground here.   

[catrice2]

2 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I like Peter but don't think he is perfect nor a saint.  There is some middle ground here.   

Thank you.  I don't like or dislike Peter at this point, I just think he is good to look at, especially compared to the rest of the group.  He has also so far not done anything to raise my hackles more than .25, but they have been raised.   My o.k's before the show aired were Peter, Dean, Alex, Eric at Will, with a disclaimer that I thought Dean had a baby face, and Eric's face was not manly.  I still stick with those as being the only attractive or semi attractive men on this season.   Chemistry means different things to different people, and the only people I have noticed what I consider to be real chemistry with is Dean and Peter. 

As has been stated many many times, we are at the mercy of the producer's edit.  I have no idea if any of them are good conversationalists (heck, Jonathan may be) or what they actually talk about.  That's why all the Bryan is passionate, Anthony is deep, Alex is intellectual, Peter is boring is just talk going no where.  We can only go by what is shown and we don't see everything.  We don't know the length or the depth of the makeout sessions or conversations to know who she is really into, who is into her or who gives her what insight into their personality.  She said something about Alex last night and the only thing I could remember prior to that was that god awful song. 

 They mentioned that Rachel said something about Bryan's parents being married 35 years.  Was that shown last night?  I have to watch 3 or 4 times and read several articles on one episode. For some reason I can't stay interested enough in the two hours, except last night I sat and wrote notes so I could recap while it was fresh....and I STILL missed a lot. 

I could actually see where the show was more fun for people before there were spoilers.  I am not invested enough to follow each week  so I like spoilers and message boards, but I can see how they cause problems.  Bryan is just icky to me, and I said so and posted reasons why BEFORE the whole Peter or not Peter reveal, and I also stated I did not believe that RS was correct.  I also think Eric is icky.  I actually think that none of the men were a great match for Rachel and that she has convinced herself of getting her "happy ending" and making herself believe she is in love,  just like she did with Nick.  There was no way that she or the producers were going to let the first Black Bachelorette appear to be not desired of marriage and unable to land a man.  She is just trying to take what she thinks is the best of a bad bunch.  It was obvious it was Peter or Bryan because someone reported from a podcast or something that she was "in love" and that was before the 3rd and 4th hometown. 

I have to admit that I finally see what some have said about "turning" on the lead.  Although I am against the lead from the start, I spend way more time picking about Rachel than I do the men.  I secretly detest the leads for being willing to go through this process for a price because it not only affects them, it affects their family, and it is not that entertaining.  My "turning on the lead" is why I could not keep my word and watch Ben or Nick, and Rachel is quickly following.  I thought I would enjoy this show more because it had men instead of women, but all the whining, arguing, posturing and Rachel laughing at their antics is just wearing.  I will say that the Bachelor board is way more snarky, and I am a snark person, so I think that is contributing to my lack of enjoyment.   My friend is way to invested to snark and I need someone who can laugh at the show.  

  I think what happened with Fred was mean and unnecessary, and I think Rachel is way into this "role."  I have my thoughts about why she took the gig and how expectations are playing a role, but in the end this is her life.  I will post my speculation about that later.  She made the choice to be in a fishbowl and feels that she is strong enough to deal with the fallout.  I wish her well and I hope she truly gets what she wants out of it. 

[leighdear]

Steve is VERY sure right now it's Bryan.  And that can change 12 times between now and the finale, and I don't care.  As long as he gets the right guy in the right place on the right day, I'm fine with him getting it the day before.  It's not a competition, because he has ZERO competition.  *LOL*  Nobody else does what he does.  

Besides, watching Rachel fawn over Peter is beginning to give me a Dez/Brooks vibe.  He really made her work for the crumbs he threw her way.  But that could easily change as she's swept off her feet by Bryan.   

[waving feather]

5 minutes ago, leighdear said:

Steve is VERY sure right now it's Bryan.  And that can change 12 times between now and the finale, and I don't care.  As long as he gets the right guy in the right place on the right day, I'm fine with him getting it the day before.  It's not a competition, because he has ZERO competition.  *LOL*  Nobody else does what he does.  

Besides, watching Rachel fawn over Peter is beginning to give me a Dez/Brooks vibe.  He really made her work for the crumbs he threw her way.  But that could easily change as she's swept off her feet by Bryan.   

Agreed. I don't understand how some people hold it against him when he is wrong or right. No one is forcing them to read his spoilers or believe 100% in what he is saying. It's just a bit of fun on the side.

It will be interesting if Rachel chases Peter throughout the season. They must have something if he makes it all the way to F2 or F1. But so far I don't sense much interest from his part. Even though Vanessa's relationship with Nick was downplayed last season, I never doubted interest from either side.

[truthaboutluv]

5 minutes ago, waving feather said:

Agreed. I don't understand how some people hold it against him when he is wrong or right. No one is forcing them to read his spoilers or believe 100% in what he is saying. It's just a bit of fun on the side.

I think some people just don't like Reality Steve and so they enjoy when he is made to eat crow. Or at least that's my reason. I don't hate him because I don't care enough about him to hate him. But I've been passively reading Steve's spoilers for years,  even when I barely watched the season of the show and the fact is he has become increasingly obnoxious and arrogant throughout the years. When he started he just wrote snarky recaps about the show and spoiled stuff and it was all in fun. But then he built a name for himself and he got incredibly toolish.

A perfect example is what's happening right now. Some people might not have taken so much glee in his having to admit he was wrong if he wasn't so condescending when first spoiling that Peter was the F1. He couldn't just say Rachel picked Peter. It's all, "no one else has this, you will hear many things and they will all be wrong and I will laugh so much at anyone thinking this is wrong because I said it and I am right and blah, blah." It's such self-important, bloviated crap. So yeah, when he fucks up, people enjoy it. Frankly I find the borderline stanning for him as the be all and end all of this franchise, kind of creepy in itself. 

[catrice2]

I may have missed an episode, but where is Rachel fawning all over Peter?  I am just not seeing this "poor Rachel is smitten and Peter is disinterested," play out on my screen.  They had a one on one date and she said some nice things about him, and she said nice things about Anthony and Alex after they spent time together.   Peter said some nice things about her in his little interviews too.  So where is the gushing?  If anything I have heard she was gushing about the kisses with Bryan. 

It was the first one on one. I am not seasoned at this, but it did not look awkward to me, so maybe I was impressed because I had nothing to compare it to.  I have to say it was more interesting than the one on one with Anthony, but that is just my opinion.  I think she was just relieved that it was not a total dud and maybe was a little too effusive, but maybe, just maybe she had that good of a time? 

 It is a shame that just because a man that has known a woman for a few days and kissed her a few times does not act as if she is the only woman in the world for him that there is something wrong with him.  My style is not one that would grab a woman and kiss her as if he knows her on the first night....but if she liked it, she liked it.  I guess I like men that are more reserved.  Neither one is wrong or better than the other.  I did not think about having sex with my husband for a while.  We kiss often and the sex life is great.   Not thinking about it immediately says nothing 

I don't know who Des and Brooks are,  but that was another show. 

By the way, there was no real passion with Nick and in the few kisses I saw Rachel was more into him than he was into her and people still  wanted him to choose her.  Maybe that is her pattern.   I really admire a man with self control that can think through a situation and a relationship without it necessarily leading with the physical....or maybe that is just how Peter and Alex want to play this game...slow and steady. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by catrice2

[StatisticalOutlier]

16 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I may have missed an episode, but where is Rachel fawning all over Peter?  I am just not seeing this "poor Rachel is smitten and Peter is disinterested," play out on my screen. 

I'm not sure what "fawning" would constitute, but last night, there was a quick scene of Rachel and Peter, and she was crawling on him to make out, and said something like she didn't want to stop or get off or something.  The scene was too quick to show if Peter was uninterested, but she was pretty obviously into it.

[dirtypop90]

12 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I'm not sure what "fawning" would constitute, but last night, there was a quick scene of Rachel and Peter, and she was crawling on him to make out, and said something like she didn't want to stop or get off or something.  The scene was too quick to show if Peter was uninterested, but she was pretty obviously into it.

Was weird they didn't show his face.  

[leighdear]

I guess I'm the only person that thought the horse date was hilarious!  Of course Anthony's never been on a horse.  Then they get cupcakes FOR the horses from a vending machine?  On Rodeo Drive?  Then they ride into a handy-dandy-just-so-happens-to-be-right-there Western store, and get boots PUT ON THEIR FEET,  hats slapped on their heads, and then they clipity-clopety ride on out?  OMG, I was laughing the entire time at the absurdity.  And all the folks on the sidewalk taking video with their phones!  

[Wings]

25 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I'm not sure what "fawning" would constitute, but last night, there was a quick scene of Rachel and Peter, and she was crawling on him to make out, and said something like she didn't want to stop or get off or something.  The scene was too quick to show if Peter was uninterested, but she was pretty obviously into it.

Loved that.  She wanted to fall into him.  

[Mondayeve]

I rewatched that clip on YT (yes, I am crazy) and I thought while it was short, very romantic.  She just melted into his arms and he kissed her after he told her "let's get a hug" or something similar.   I think we would have seen a longer kiss actually but the camera moved off their face.  They seemed like they wanted it to go on longer but they couldn't.   Some times those hugs where you don't want to let go can be just as romantic as a passionate kiss if not more romantic IMO.  It is more intimate and connected. 

Frankly I am confused and mesmerized by all the chemistry she has with Peter if Bryan was her choice.   That is the beauty of this show. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Mondayeve

[In2You]

On 6/5/2017 at 1:42 PM, wonald said:

Jubilee is a controversial character. Ppl either love or hate her.  The two biracial girls on the season didnt like her bc Jubilee said something about how she is the only true black woman on the show or something like that. I say where there's smoke, there's fire and she sucks.

I felt those two were pissed that she was the only black girl getting attention.Because those two were completely irrelevant prior to going in on her. Hell even after they did they just looked dumb and no one cared about them still.

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, leighdear said:

I guess I'm the only person that thought the horse date was hilarious!  Of course Anthony's never been on a horse.  Then they get cupcakes FOR the horses from a vending machine?  On Rodeo Drive?  Then they ride into a handy-dandy-just-so-happens-to-be-right-there Western store, and get boots PUT ON THEIR FEET,  hats slapped on their heads, and then they clipity-clopety ride on out?  OMG, I was laughing the entire time at the absurdity.  And all the folks on the sidewalk taking video with their phones!  

I had the same reaction, wondering just what the hell I was seeing.

I haven't worn cowboy boots in years, but when I did, it took an act of Congress to get them on--no way someone could have put them on my feet in the air.

[Wings]

18 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I had the same reaction, wondering just what the hell I was seeing.

I haven't worn cowboy boots in years, but when I did, it took an act of Congress to get them on--no way someone could have put them on my feet in the air.

Yes, I noticed that and you need a boot Jack to get them off.  I have moved to moto boots with a zipper. 

I would love to go shopping on a horse though! 

[catrice2]

I saw Nightline because I suffer from insomnia.  It gave some insight into Rachel's choice, her stating that she always runs away from the guy who seems to have it all together and that has not worked out for her in the past.  Going from her past history I'm sure she felt like she had always gone away from "good to be true" and it had not worked out for her. She wanted to do something different. I'm sure older, established and "passionately into me "had  appeal.  Clearly she felt Bryan filled that bill of too good to be true (and on paper I'm sure he appears to) and thought to herself that she would not make that mistake again of turning away from that.  I think as with Nick, in some way she equates older with being more stable. Everything about Bryan appears to be scripted, rehearsed and intentional. As a "super fan," he has had more than enough time to study the show and figure out what his play should be...and that is what I see more than anything else.  I have no doubt he will start to get the more "serious" edit soon, but instinctively he is a snake.  I see kisses with Bryan, but I do not see chemistry.  Just as Nick kept saying they had explosive chemistry, but in the episodes I saw, it was not on screen. 

I also noted that the Nightline guy said what bothers me about Rachel. There was no reason for her to do this show. She can tout the "missing in my personal life," why not, etc., but if she really is as smart, wonderful, etc. as everyone says, being on Nick's show was going to guarantee her enough interest that her dating pool would have expanded without doing it this way,and she would have stayed in the spotlight.  I realize there is a financial aspect, but I honestly believe all the "you are sooo exceptional" went to her head. Heck I have seen it compared to Rosa Parks or being the first black president!   For some people this is a big deal.  Besides, if you can pull a potential future NBA star in your youth, you can find a man in Dallas. 

  I have nothing to compare it to, but in terms of her being the "best" ever, my gut tells me the bar on that had to be pretty low when most of the other girls were not as old or accomplished as she is.  It is easy for Rachel to look more polished in that respect, but she is human and suspect to making the same poor choices in how she handles situations, and she signs the contract allowing them to manipulate her, the situations,  and the edit any way they want to.  So being "the best ever," is not always going to be about Rachel herself, but how they choose to portray her.  I see a lot of acting for the camera on her part. 

It seems to me that because she is a Black woman people in the media are choosing their words very carefully, and if my friend is to be believed in chats, boards, whatever,also.   It seems like everyone is  cautious to be  any way critical of Rachel because they are afraid of being perceived a certain way.   Be clear, I don't dislike Rachel, but I can be objective about what I see on my screen with Rachel and in the words that she says.  I can disagree with her actions without thinking she is terrible, etc.   I am not invested in this franchise and as I told my friend watching has been illuminating to me as I am also considering it a social experiment.  

Rachel is pretty, successful etc., but she wasn't even the prettiest  ethnic girl  on her season  (Dominique and Jubilee on Ben's season)  but she was more interesting and presented more confidently.  She had the right pedigree, from her profession to her father's profession.  If she had been a hairstylist or something she never would have been chosen.   Everyone is acting as if she is so drop dead gorgeous that every man should be fawning over her. They have admitted they wanted her for Bachelorette in the casting process, therefore I side eye some  of the talk of greatness.  Some of it is genuine, and some of it is producer, editor created.  I think that is why she got the edit she did in Nick's season, they had an end game in mind.  I think Rachel likes the limelight and I think they really flattered her with the being the first and  "representing black women in a positive light."  In my opinion Rachel is representing Rachel, she does not represent me or most of the Black women I know who would die before making out with multiple men on national television while espousing their Christian values, and most older black mothers would never be proud of this.   We are not all the same.  We can be black women and not think alike or want the same things.  That's why I say she is entitled to act a certain way that I would not, but that does not make me right and her wrong, it is just not what I would like to see.  

I think everyone needs to get all of that out of their head . Her decisions are no reflection on anyone but herself.   The same with the chatter that Shonda Rimes writes "strong black women," and that to me does not describe the characters that I see.  That doesn't mean people can't watch this show or find it entertaining (even if you are religious), but I have said all along that the lack of minority on this show was two fold; (before the opportunity for self promotion came in) in part they were not casting and on the other hand people were not applying because they thought it was stupid and did not reflect people well, and they knew their parents would kill them.  For the younger generation, now that the whole social media opportunities are in play, I am sure you will find that it appeals more to all races.  

In the little that I saw in Nick's season and this one, and from what I've read and been told, I think she is very mature in work, but possibly not in her personal life.   She gravitated towards mostly the younger girls in Nick's season and has embraced the promotion of this show. She seems to find a lot of immature things amusing, and she strikes me as the type that goes all in without really thinking things through. I think she is very competitive and I think that drove her more with Nick than actual attraction, love of Nick.  I think that is also part of this season...she wants to prove something to people as a Black woman....I can find love, etc. I think she wanted to prove it could work out for her and that influenced her actions and reactions. 

I have been disappointed about the engagement, not because of who she is or is not engaged to, but because I wanted her to show the "smarts" and not fall into the trap of getting engaged from this process, and possibly just agreeing at the end to date someone long term to get to know them.  You don't need manufactured drama on national tv to find your "forever love."  I also don't see "lawyer" in her interviews.  I know that you have to be confident in what you feel, but logically there is no reason to go out there saying too much about the success of the relationship.   "We are never breaking up,"  we are different," etc.  It just sounds a little cocky and condescending to all of the relationships prior to this one.  Maybe she thinks it is because they are older? Either way, looking at that odds on this show it would be better to be a little more circumspect about what you say. Contrary to what people said, I think Nick and Vanessa were smart to talk more realistically about the challenges of making this work and I think Rachel is naive about how much she thinks media coverage, etc. will affect the relationship.   I think that they knew in advance that people would not understand the choice and wanted everyone to get behind Rachel and get invested in her happiness.  I do not believe for one minute it was about her being so happy that they gave her the blessing to shout it from the rooftops.  ABC doesn't care that much about anybody. They had an angle. 

All I can say is that  I have been in love, and you don't get over true love in 3 months and then go back on television kissing a lot of men and being "open" to it.   For those that are upset about the choice, just remember she thought she was in love with Nick too, but after real life set in she realized that she was not enough to want to get back on this show. Rachel strikes me as someone who can get caught up in the moment, and then logic sets in.  I could be wrong, but think that over time she will reflect and realize that she was in love with the process and the idea, and not with the person.  As someone wisely said on this board, it is just another Bachelor engagement which has about a 10 or 15 percent chance of succeeding. 

After the response, expect there to be more "clues" dropped about why she chose who she did, and for her to be very defensive about it when the reveal happens. There will be more subtle references to Bryan in her interviews as well as those about why Peter was not the one. I noted she is now emphasizing that she was only in love with one person. She wants to be clear that there was no conflict in her decision, which only makes me side eye her more. Rachel is just like the rest, in it for the show.  If Bryan was HTD #1 then she knew before the last three, so why throw yourself into the groping, kissing, etc?  If it really was a "season of first" and she keeps saying that they "knew they couldn't make her do anything" then why agree to FS? etc?  It will be interesting to see how she presents on the final 3 HTD.  That is the worst thing about this franchise. They want to make sure they get the formula. Forget if the lead says I have only interest in one person...we must still play with the other three people's feelings (and their families) to film the show!  I hate that families are involved at all in this mess.   

 I would not be surprised if Bryan or Rachel had something to do with getting the word out that RS was wrong.  It had to be killing him that the response to Peter was so positive. I'll bet it was making him insecure.  How hard is it to get a "friend" or someone to message RS to start checking the sources?  He finally gets in the franchise and someone else is getting all the attention?  There is no way super fan was going to have that! 

As for the racial aspect- Rachel admitted in Nick's seasons that SHE (not her sister or other relatives) had never taken a white man home before.  Dating someone is different than it being serious enough to take them home.  That spoke volumes to me.  I always said that she would not choose a Caucasian man.  Everyone forgets that Bryan is Columbian, so she is minimizing some of the backlash.  She mentioned that she was thinking of the pressure about who she would choose. Regardless of her denials, I sense that the whole "black not black enough," etc. does matter somewhat to Rachel. 

If everyone is correct and Peter was not into Rachel than this is the best outcome and she picked up on that.  I stand by what I said, she made the best of what she had on offer. In real life, I don't think Rachel would be with either person, but felt the pressure of "making this work."   This is why this show is so disturbing to me.  The Stockholm Syndrome, etc. is real.  People get so caught up in this franchise that they lose themselves, and it is unfortunate.  I am just perplexed about why people expected so much more from Rachel?  Again, I have nothing to compare it to so maybe I just don't see it.  After all, she played along and kept Lucas, Blake and some others. And she either agreed to, or is getting the whole Lee/ Demario drama....so being "smart," and so above board and not producer manipulated is not what I see. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by catrice2

[hnygrl]

I didn't like Bryan. Didn't like him from the minute he opened his mouth that first night. Smarmy, over-confident player seeping from every pore. And that kiss. Ick. He swallowed her face. She needed a kleenex and makeup touched up after that. 

But if that's what she's into....I guess...

Actually, I never saw Rachel the way everybody else did...special little snowflake who is soooooooo perfectly perfect. And mature. And knows what she wants, blah blah.

I saw her/see her as a tool. A tool for the first Black Bachelor.

Which is the point of this season. They had a Black Bach'ette so they could (finally) have a real live honest to God BLACK BACHELOR. Probably the first in franchise history (isn't he white all over the world where the show is produced? I think he was black one time somewhere but I forget where). With so many really wonderful black men on this season (and Rachel only being into the white guys), one of them could definitely be the next bachelor.  Thus the "surprise" of the reject NOT being the bachelor.

They may even pull another Nick and pick someone from Paradise.

I think they'd hand-picked DeMario but he screwed that pooch but good...maybe they'll pull a Nick and let Paradise be DeMario's "salvation" so they can make him Bachelor? Worked with Nick. By the last days of Paradise, every woman in the world was all gooey-eyed over Nick. NICK!!!! And when they found out he was the Bachelor? THEY WERE HAPPY ABOUT IT!!!! IT WORKED!!!! Why wouldn't it work twice? We're really easy, we viewers. We tend to swallow whatever storyline is played out for us if it's good enough and executed seamlessly enough - thus the 'Nick' season.

I wouldn't hold my breath on Peter/Bryan being the next Bachelor. It'll be somebody black. Guaranteed.

[leighdear]

I just cannot believe anybody in production hand-picked Demario for anything but being stooge #3 in Rachel's loser lineup.  

And none of the other black guys got close enough to the final 4 or are interesting enough to be brought in as lead, no matter what they do on Paradise.  They just started filming that, so they have no clue what is going to happen there.   Flame-outs are a matter of course in the sands of Mexico. 

And final 4 Eric came off to me as a petulant, arrogant asshat.  I can't see them tapping him as a lead.  As a "motivational speaker" it amazed me he spoke so poorly and irrationally. 

[dirtypop90]

I don't get blaming rachel because she's liked. She's not flawless, no one is, but she is a MAJOR step up for this franchise, so people are excited about her. I don't get from Rachel that she thinks she's a special snowflake. She got a long with all the girls on the bachelor, but Vanessa, whom no one liked, which to me says a lot. :shrugs: 

I don't think we will get a black bachelor.  Rachel will choose a white guy, and looking at the black guys on this show that are liked i.e. Will and Anthony, odds are high they too would choose a white person.  I don't think ABC wants anything to do with the backlash that would come from two black leads choosing white partners back to back.

Edited June 9, 2017 by dirtypop90

[catrice2]

19 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

I don't get blaming rachel because she's liked. She's not flawless, no one is, but she is a MAJOR step up for this franchise, so people are excited about her. I don't get from Rachel that she thinks she's a special snowflake. She got a long with all the girls on the bachelor, but Vanessa, whom no one liked, which to me says a lot. :shrugs: 

I don't think we will get a black bachelor.  Rachel will choose a white guy, and looking at the black guys on this show that are liked i.e. Will and Anthony, odds are high they too would choose a white person.  I don't think ABC wants anything to do with the backlash that would come from two black leads choosing white partners back to back.

 No one is blaming Rachel for being liked, or expecting her to be flawless.  At all. I think she is smart to try and get what she wants from the franchise, but I am wondering why the fans are elevating her so much and are so afraid to be critical of her choices and actions, which can't be too different from other leads? As soon as someone says something that could be construed as unfavorable people get upset, although everyone snarked on Nick in his season. 

  I have read these boards, not watched the show, and every lead has been criticized, even back I guess to the early seasons.  There were what ? 20 something girls in that house? Who knows if she actually got along with everybody, and where has it been confirmed that she did not get along with Vanessa, or that everyone else did not like Vanessa?  People put something on a message board, blog, etc. and it is taken as gospel.  No one is going to like everyone or be liked by everybody. I am sure there were girls in the house that Rachel gravitated to, and those that Vanessa did, and some that liked both girls. It was not a popularity contest, especially if you are mature women. 

I don't know about previous contestants, but it has been said she had one of the most professional jobs, and she is older. She should be more polished, but that does not mean she is better, just different. 

I am also curious how you can "look at someone" and decide who they will choose from an unknown pool of people?  The choice has supposedly been spoiled, and he is not white, so I am trying to understand the comment about her choice. Besides, I have heard NO ONE say that they are into Anthony, so that is the most perplexing part of the post.   Can you explain who is giving Anthony a lot of attention? 

Unfortunately ABC will not get a backlash, it would be the contestants themselves that would face backlash. 

[truthaboutluv]

18 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Who knows if she actually got along with everybody, and where has it been confirmed that she did not get along with Vanessa, or that everyone else did not like Vanessa?  People put something on a message board, blog, etc. and it is taken as gospel.  No one is going to like everyone or be liked by everybody. I am sure there were girls in the house that Rachel gravitated to, and those that Vanessa did, and some that liked both girls. It was not a popularity contest, especially if you are mature women. 

The power of Reality Steve. He says it and for some its gospel. For the record, many of the women from the season have said nice things about Vanessa and Alexis (Shark Girl), a member of Rachel's supposed "squad" has flip flopped from saying how "we don't like Vanessa" in an Instagram Live video she did with Rachel, to talking about how Vanessa was always very sweet to her and she's posted many gushy and cute comments on Vanessa's Instagram about how gorgeous and amazing she is.

In my opinion, I think it's clear that the Vanessa and Rachel saga was simply two very strong women with very strong personalities put in a highly emotional and manipulative environment and their personalities clashed. People took sides and one of those gave their version of what happened to Reality Steve, he reported it and many took it as the gospel truth, ignoring that there are always three sides to every story - in this case, Rachel's, Vanessa's and the truth.

I do find it funny though how in many places online, not here, whenever the slightest criticism is made of Rachel about anything, an inevitable response about how the women loved her and they all hated Vanessa immediately pops up. Like that automatically negates any criticism of Rachel. Like why Vanessa is even being dragged into this, I have no idea.

Regarding all the stuff about Rachel not representing every black woman or speaking for them and all that...honestly, I really don't think it's that deep. I'm a black woman and I've never viewed Rachel's casting or the reaction to her or any of this stuff as having diddly to do with me.  But of course that's probably because I see this show as a pretty icky and sort of creepy snark fest. Every once in awhile, a pretty awesome couple comes out of it. But other than that, it's a bunch of famewhores, some more so than others, willing to put themselves out on a television show for entertainment and well now with social media, shilling opportunities. It's just a cheesy reality show. It's fun to snark about and laugh about but that's it. At least for me it is. I like some of the people, famewhores and all, and others annoy me.

[dirtypop90]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

 No one is blaming Rachel for being liked, or expecting her to be flawless.  At all. I think she is smart to try and get what she wants from the franchise, but I am wondering why the fans are elevating her so much and are so afraid to be critical of her choices and actions, which can't be too different from other leads? As soon as someone says something that could be construed as unfavorable people get upset, although everyone snarked on Nick in his season. 

  I have read these boards, not watched the show, and every lead has been criticized, even back I guess to the early seasons.  There were what ? 20 something girls in that house? Who knows if she actually got along with everybody, and where has it been confirmed that she did not get along with Vanessa, or that everyone else did not like Vanessa?  People put something on a message board, blog, etc. and it is taken as gospel.  No one is going to like everyone or be liked by everybody. I am sure there were girls in the house that Rachel gravitated to, and those that Vanessa did, and some that liked both girls. It was not a popularity contest, especially if you are mature women. 

I don't know about previous contestants, but it has been said she had one of the most professional jobs, and she is older. She should be more polished, but that does not mean she is better, just different. 

I am also curious how you can "look at someone" and decide who they will choose from an unknown pool of people?  The choice has supposedly been spoiled, and he is not white, so I am trying to understand the comment about her choice. Besides, I have heard NO ONE say that they are into Anthony, so that is the most perplexing part of the post.   Can you explain who is giving Anthony a lot of attention? 

Unfortunately ABC will not get a backlash, it would be the contestants themselves that would face backlash. 

I spend an embarrassing amount of time on a different forum with folks obsessed with this franchise.  They do a lot of digging about contestants, filming, etc.  Those women are whom I get most of my info from, as well as social media, not reality steve.  They actually hate reality steve.

Bryan is a white latino or hispanic.  Peter is also white. Those are the only two in the race here.  Now I don't think rachel has a strong preference for white men, I just dont think she likes the black men they chose for her.  Will and Anthony have been well received since before the show aired by the women on the board I visit based on the snooping they did on all the contestants. They also have been well received on social media, though most think they are not compatible with rachel. No other black guy is close to them, except Fred who is gone and Josiah before he started speaking too much.  Me thinking those two are likely to choose white women is based on their dating history, which other folks have reported about all over the internet, including their friends, not how they look (I would never do that).

While the contestants would take most of the heat, ABC would take some also because people are nuts.  There are already folks bashing ABC's pick of Rachel because they believe ABC chose a woman the network knew would choose a white guy, (I'm not making this up) and there will be backlash when she makes her choice.  Hell I think it will start once she sends will and anthony home, which I believe happens the same ep (she gets rid of most of the black guys around the same time), leaving only eric.  Folks are going to lose their minds over her final 6. And if it happened again with a black bachelor it would turn a lot of viewers off IMO.

Edited June 9, 2017 by dirtypop90

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I am wondering why the fans are elevating her so much and are so afraid to be critical of her choices and actions, which can't be too different from other leads? As soon as someone says something that could be construed as unfavorable people get upset, although everyone snarked on Nick in his season. 

I don't know that I've seen over sensitive people here.  Maybe elsewhere.  She is a woman who has gone on The Bachelor.  Did she really hope to find love?  Does anyone?  In many ways, this is an acting job but one with many perks.  You get to sit around and drink, go on interesting dates and if you last, travel to some interesting places.  And if there's a love connection, it's not that different from finding a partner at work.  Or when two actors fall in love on set.  If you don't get chosen and you're lucky, you can do it again.  And maybe parlay all that into a DWTS gig (Rachel has said she's not against it) or exposure for whatever business they're in.

I do think there's more awareness now of potential producer manipulation as we're in the post-UnREAL era.  And I do think Rachel earns some extra leeway every time she does something like tell Demario to eff off, that she's looking for a man, not a boy and throws out gems like "did he finish the banana?"  That's entertainment from the show, even for the cynics.  We don't need to invent our own.

But she is going to get criticism for her final two in all likelihood given that they both have rather light skin.  And if Eric is the black man she takes to the final 3?  She will face criticism.  She also got a lot for how she treated Fred in this past episode.

[truthaboutluv]

Also, to be fair, regarding criticizing Rachel's choices and actions, it has only been three episodes. It's typically somewhere around mid-season, the bloom is off the rose regarding the leads, even some of the ones who were beloved before they were the lead, and viewers start really criticizing and snarking on them. That said, I felt like I saw a lot of criticism of Rachel about how she handled the Fred situation, especially the fact that she picked up the rose. While I don't personally absolve the lead of everything and blame the producers, I do think that move is producer-influenced. YMMV.

[Kerri Johnson]

I don't believe Bryan as F1 for a moment.  I think it's probably the producers panicking at how obvious it is Peter is F1. I don't think Rachel is unattractive, but a guy as good looking as Peter probably would not be interested in her in real life. There's no way Peter is not winning, unless he voluntarily leaves.

If the rumor the next Bachelor is a surprise is true, I can still see it being Peter. I doubt Peter and Rachel will last, so they can announce a sad breakup after the Final Rose segment and Peter as the next Bachelor.

Peter reminds me of the old school Bachelors, a handsome, successful Bachelor, not a loser like Nick who ended up being the Bachelor because he had been on a million times. 

Emily showed us the winner can still be the lead if the producers want you badly enough.

[peachmangosteen]

I feel like Peter and Rachel are really even looks wise. Normally I feel the lead picks someone that's far better looking than they are lol. I think Bryan is less attractive than Rachel but I can tell she thinks he's the most physically attractive guy there.

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, Kerri Johnson said:

Peter reminds me of the old school Bachelors, a handsome, successful Bachelor, not a loser like Nick who ended up being the Bachelor because he had been on a million times. 

Isn't Peter a part-time model who is now a full-time personal trainer? That's like 90 percent of the guys recruited for the Bachelorette. And I see Peter is the new Arie - a guy I keep reading about his overwhelming hotness that I just don't personally get. Decent looking guy, sure but bland as hell.

Edited June 9, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[dirtypop90]

Yea, Peter is just your cute, standard personal trainer to me. But clearly Rach and others see something I don't. I'm super into Will; his smile is gorgeous! Dean, Fred, and Alex are also super attractive to me. 

[Ripley68]

I like Rachel better than any of the other Bachelor/ettes I've seen because she asks her men REAL questions, not just the ho hum, what'd you think questions we normally see.  She really drilled Peter on their date about his motives, even asked what his parents felt. I don't think I've seen a lead do that.  I don't remember her asking Anthony any deep questions, but on some of her one on ones in group dates and the cocktail party, she tried to find out what the men want by being there.

How many one on ones have leads had with their winner in the past? It seems like Jordan got 3 (no counting HTV), I think Vanessa got 2. According to RS, it looks like Bryan gets 3 and Peter 2 (counting the one he already had).

You know, if I didn't have any commitments, and I was even near as good looking and confident as these people are, I would totally jump at the chance to be the lead. Not because of the dating chance, but just to get the clothes and accessories!

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, Ripley68 said:

She really drilled Peter on their date about his motives, even asked what his parents felt.

I wouldn't say she drilled him about his motives, YMMV. She seemed too busy smiling up at him with stars in her eyes. I think she just asked how his parents felt about him doing the show and he answered. It's probably because she's said repeatedly that her own parents were skeptics. While I wouldn't say I've found her asking any profound and amazing questions that other leads haven't in the past, what I will say is that she's a great conversationalist.

And so she's great at picking up something the guys said and running with it and getting the conversation to flow really well. Basically she does good banter. Like I won't lie, I cracked up when she, completely dead panned, asked Lucas (Whaboom), "and did he finish the banana" after his ridiculous Blake story. Maybe it's a lawyer thing because Andi was also really good at that. I've always said much as she bugged me later, Andi was actually a pretty good Bachelorette. 

Quote

According to RS, it looks like Bryan gets 3 and Peter 2 (counting the one he already had).

Bryan gets 3 one on one's? That seems odd considering he doesn't get a first one on one until Episode 5. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by truthaboutluv