KN2Blue

Yeah it's fascinating how much they do find out each season. I think a lot of that talent is wasted because some of those posters go to incredible lengths to stalk/sleuth the contestants/locations etc. The persistence and dedication to that "craft" is something to behold. I believe the current plan is to sleuth for SHVs to prove/disprove Reality Steve's spoiler. So we'll see how that plays out. It might end up being the deciding factor for this season unless the show just relies on private planes to transport Rachel and her fiance to the SHVs. I actually tend to love staying in the non-spoiled section though because there is less of the divisiveness that goes on in the other forums. Too many of the fans get way too invested in a particular contestant and then it devolves into this back and forth where the slightest infraction of the opposing contestant gets magnified to the nth degree.

Lol. To be fair to them though the person who posted the initial spoiler that Peter was F1 is different from the two posters who are adamant that Peter won. The former (i.e. the person who posted about Peter) was actually stalking the night one contestants and it was one a previous contestant who claimed Peter got the first rose. They had screenshots and all, but took them down to protect that contestant from the wrath of TPTB. Then later on that same poster got into trouble on the site because they called Jack Stone's workplace to see if he had been let go, and apparently that was a little bit too much even for that site. Now the other two posters who claim Peter is the winner seem to have some sort of in with his circle perhaps? So who knows?

My point isn't that they don't harbor ill feelings but that it isn't the only story that can and should be told about Hindus/Pakistanis. There is obviously a lot more complexity than that so it's worthwhile in my opinion not to only focus on that aspect. Not to go off topic but this is why often communities of color decry the lack of representation in the writers' room because when people are not familiar with the cultures that they try to write about they simply draw on the most commonly-held stereotypes.

I'm going to disagree with you here not because your premise is wrong. Yes it's true that Hindus and Muslims throughout the years have had some major conflict but it doesn't mean that this is the reality in every situation. In fact I do commend the show for avoiding the generalization because while en masse there might be conflict, it doesn't mean that every single individual feels strongly about the conflict. It's simplistic writing in my opinion to always resort to the common-place experience. One of my favorite Ted talks is the one by Ngozi Chimamanda Adichie where she talks about the dangers of a single story. We don't get a lot of stories in the media about South Asians and it's refreshing that the show did not just go there. Perhaps I'm biased slightly but I do work with people from Pakistan/India- first generation Americans in their 40s (I'm not South Asian) and they get along extremely well and are friends outside the workplace so my experience is obviously different from yours. PS FWIW there is probably more solidarity as you move away from the geopolitical area as the two groups probably share similar cultures so it also does ring true to me that there isn't necessarily any animus between the two groups here in the US.

I don't think using the show's captions accurately reflects what the men do for a living. Robby is a Sales Manager for Myrtha Pools (unless that changed recently). Jordan does some fitness consulting with athletes and Luke is a musician trying to make it out in Nashville.

It would definitely be the central theme of the season regardless of the actual ending. The narrative is there and with editing it would be scripted to make the viewers think that's going to be the eventual outcome. Nick actually predicted having the F1 reject him during one of his interviews, so I can see the show actively working that angle with the cast, and/or selling it to the audience in the unlikely event that it doesn't go as planned. Personally, I don't think Nick should do it, but if I were an ABC executive or a show producer, it seems a no-brainer to pick him.

Not only that but Salesforce is highly selective in who it hires as sales executives. Less than 5% of all applicants make it. I honestly think dislike of Nick is clouding the perceptions of Salesforce as a company. The company is at the top of what it does, has an international presence and consistently makes the ranks as a top ten employer. With all due respect it is not Comcast, nor is the job the same as "a customer account position" Moving back to the show since this is veering off-topic, I'm in the camp that feels Kaitlyn could have done more to apprise Nick of the situation. This is someone who broke the rules all season, and with all the "off-camera" time they had, I don't see how she couldn't have clued him in if she really wanted to do that. The bottom-line for me is she was careless with her feelings, and her actions since the show ended continue to portray her as selfish and inconsiderate.

I'm pretty late to the party and at this point everything that needs to be said has already been said so I won't repeat any of the excellent arguments about why that ending was so offensive. I'd just like to add that I also thought it was very bad storytelling and completely took me out of the narrative and I'm less likely to trust the show going forward. Maybe it's me but it just doesn't seem plausible that Amy would sleep with Liam just because she was drunk, upset or wanted to hurt Karma. Frankly, if that was the direction the show wanted to take, I think there could have been some foreshadowing earlier in the season that Amy had it in her to act so irresponsibly toward her friendship with Karma. But no, for the first seven episodes, she was totally under Karma's thrall and kept doing things she was uncomfortable with in order to please her. And now I'm supposed to believe that the first opportunity she has, she's going to sleep with Karma's boyfriend? It doesn't ring true to me and there's nothing I hate more in a show than when characters behave in a manner that seems inconsistent to the character. Amy has never shown any interest in Liam. Even during the threesome, it didn't come across like she was interested in him, so I just can't see them jumping into bed together. I know TV shows like to make it seem like everyone is just a couple of drinks away from sleeping with other characters, but in real life people can and are often a little more judicious. The scene just came out of nowhere and the fact that we didn't see any of the lead-up to the actual sex scene just made it so much more ridiculous and clearly a plot contrivance so next season we can have the shadow of that action hanging over the Amy/Karma relationship. Frankly if Carter Covington wanted to write Amy as still exploring her sexual identity, there was that other guy she could very well have slept with (I forget his name and I don't feel like looking it up). Yes it may not have increased any of the tension between Amy and Karma, but it would have been more realistic since he's appeared a couple of times and Amy (in an offhand way), has been shown to be somewhat compatible with him or interested in treating him as a backup alternative. I would rather she'd called him up and had a fling with him, instead of the Liam scene. Instead, next season we're probably going to see the drama ramped up between the two, and I'm in no mood to sit through fake drama just for the sake of a show. This more than anything else is why I may not return to the show. I'm probably more tolerant of the lesbian sleeps with a guy storyline than I am of bad storytelling so this is close to being a deal breaker. I may watch one or two episodes next season, but right now this show seems to be headed toward my "time to chuck it list."

I'm with you though. Watching as it played out I was like "are you guys serious?" It seems to me the guys were suggesting that Nick went against some sort of man code. Well I'm sorry but if the guys were there for the "right reasons" (yes I actually said that), they would be more concerned with comforting Andi than in catering to the feelings of the other guys. On the other hand, Nick's initiative might have been producer-instigated, so maybe that's what the guys were upset about.

First post here! You know I do believe the confrontation was heavily edited to take out anything that might have cast Eric in a bad light. Not that I think he's a horrible person or anything like that. He seems to be an intelligent, adventurous, and quite accomplished fellow. Like Andi said, he was pretty much effortless in everything he tried. But let's face it, the fact that he passed away made things quite complicated for the show, and it would have been in extremely bad taste to even allude to any douchiness on his part. I'm not trying to suggest that Andi isn't hot-headed, but if you look back at that scene, Eric starts off by saying he's going to stand rather than sit down. So that sets up the entire conversation to be confrontational. Maybe he's just not good at having difficult conversations, but the more obvious choice would have been to sit down, so everyone's more comfortable. Then his opening was certainly not diplomatic. In his confessional, he talks about wanting to get feedback from Andi in their one-on-one time that she feels something, but he starts off by saying he was taken aback that she didn't think he was being open, and he felt she was the one not being open, or even showing her real self to him. Those are two different things. The confessional makes it about the relationship and where he stands, whereas the talk certainly seems to be more about pointing out some failings in Andi's behavior or character, especially as he follows that up with the TV actress comment. That comment was completely unnecessary and definitely put Andi on the defensive. The discussion about Andi having a poker face comes after the TV actress comment, and I'm sorry, it seems obvious to me that opening a conversation with a comment that clearly implies she's not being real is confrontational, and it is to be expected that she would be upset by that. I'm not going to blame her for getting upset because she felt insulted, and I would have been insulted too. If he had even started off with something like, "when we're together I can't read you and I'm not sure where I stand" that conversation would probably have taken a different turn.