S07.E13: Bury Me Here

[ghoulina]

8 hours ago, lulee said:

I don't think Ezekiel agreed about going to war *because* Carol said it. He agreed with it, but it its after a long time being held down by them, and I think the constricting feeling, illustrated by Richard's desperation, that they can't go on like this forever. 

I feel like he'd already made up his mind about it before Carol came. After Benjamin was killed. Richard's plan worked, just not exactly has he'd planned. 

 

8 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Imagine the conversation on the way back to Neganville! Long Haired Asshole, "Oh shit man I blew that kids leg OFF! Im so rad! Negan's gonna let me have sexy times tonight for SURE!" Rat-faced Boss, "SHUT THE FUCK UP!" Besides, the deal between the Saviors and the Kingdom seems centered solely around fresh veggies and pork, not guns and drugs.

Except he made the guy walk back, alone. Because apparently Rat-faced Boss has a conscience, of sorts. 

[walnutqueen]

7 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Carol, for instance. I get that she's tired of all the death and just wants to shut herself off from everyone, so she doesn't have to kill, but doesn't put anyone she cares about at risk either. Except....you're like 5 feet from the Kingdom and there hasn't been a single episode since she went all Unibomber that she hasn't had a visitor of some sort. And her attitude. Jesus God, writers. Carol has been my favorite character since poor Hershel was beheaded. She has been tough and ruthless, but she's never been an outright bitch for no reason. Now she's stomping around, brushing past people, acting like she's too good to say hello to nice, young boys. WTF? 

 

Say hello to my leettle friend, named "menopause". 'splains away almost  everything ...

[Haleth]

10 hours ago, xaxat said:

Holy crap! Has there ever been a shirt redder than the one Benjamin was wearing this episode?

I thought for sure it had to be a misdirect.  It was way too obvious from the first moment of the episode.  Surely the writing isn't that bad.  LOL  Right.

10 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I can't decide if I want Maggie, Carl, Carol or Michonne to kill Negan.

All of them, a la Murder on the Orient Express.  (Spoiler alert)  Or the slapping scene in Airplane.

I'd be up for pulling up a chair with a big bowl of popcorn for next week to see Morgan and Carol get their game on again, but we probably won't see them again until the finale.

[ghoulina]

9 minutes ago, Haleth said:

All of them, a la Murder on the Orient Express.  (Spoiler alert)  Or the slapping scene in Airplane.

Holy shit, I think I love you. Now I just want Negan to get slapped to death. 

[Vyk]

49 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

When Morgan told Carol about Glenn and Abraham and the others being killed by Negan and his crew, why didn't he mention that that Eugene had been kidnapped?  Yes, it is tragic they are dead, but Eugene was not as far as Morgan knew.  Why does no one ever mention rescuing him?

Eugene wasn't mentioned to Morgan, I don't think.  So he doesn't know.

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, Dobian said:

I think they need to do ten or twelve more episodes where the Saviors individually bully someone so the show firmly establishes motivation for taking them out.  There just isn't enough motivation yet.

I think the Saviors need to pants a dozen people and shove them in lockers, all the while screaming "We hate nerds!", before we get the point.  Hey, I think these guys might be bullies...

I officially enjoy the Kingdom and Zeke more then Rick and his crew.  I just need Michonne to move to the Kingdom and I would not mind if this group is the main focus of the show.  Michonne and Zeke can start a club about how to maintain awesome hair in ZA.  Carol can also join because her hair cut is always on point after she grew out the unfortunate buzz cut look.

[diebartdie]

10 hours ago, festivus said:

Poor Benjamin. He just had to engage with Carol and it cost him his life. I was yelling run child to his little brother at the end.

Actually, if she had allowed him to go with her, the worst that would have happened to him would have been learning how to plant tomato seeds. She did exactly what you seem to wish she would do with all youth, push away.

[nodorothyparker]

I actually think it's pretty funny that almost no one seems to consider Eugene in the equation at all, which does a nice job of tying into why Negan's compound of unnecessary assholery and flesh burning might have appealed to him.

I did like this episode a lot because it moved the plot and got two of my favorite characters moving again.  But I acknowledge the bar has been set pretty low this season with a whole lot of stalling and side trips to Whocaresville while monologuers gotta monologue, or in the case of the garbage people, monotone random articles of speech.  The fact that all of this happened over one damn cantaloupe, that the Saviors are willing to kill someone and expend that much gas and manpower over one damn cantaloupe, doesn't say much for their business model.  I think we're supposed to think that they're just that big and bad and scary that they can make that one cantaloupe an object lesson that won't eventually exhaust their subjugated producers or provoke them into turning on them, when what it really says that Negan has too many people on his payroll with too little to do so they need to be kept busy harassing people over things like one cantaloupe so they won't focus on what a shitty deal they're getting too.  Gavin seemed like he was just completely over the whole thing and is going to go with whatever causes him the least amount of hassle.  I'm actually kind of interested to see where someone like him sides once the real war begins.

Could have done without the shot, fade to black, to commercial.  Did AMC really learn nothing from the backlash over the season finale bat to the head cliffhanger?  I'm guessing not.  I'm sorry sweet Benjamin had to die but the red from his shirt was so blinding you could probably see it from space.  About the only square on his bingo card he didn't hit on his way out was being two days from retirement.  

All the adjectives and superlatives have already been expounded on Lennie James as he was perfection throughout.  He does wounded and still so well.  He was definitely seeing some strong reflection of himself in Richard and seeing that his earlier inaction had led him to the place of desperation that got Benjamin killed.  

One of Morgan's less showy but quietly effective bits was his talk with Carol at the beginning.  Look, you wanted to be out.  I kept your whereabouts a secret and let you stay out.  But you need to figure out what you really want and not be pushing and pulling me in and out to be your interference for you until you do.  You let me know.  It bookended nicely with his scene at the end where he made it clear he just wasn't carrying that for her or anyone else anymore.  The chemistry between James and Melissa McBride is so interesting to me, from his calling her out on not really wanting to be alone as she's claimed after all to her understanding in the end that he was teetering after killing Richard and maybe needed her quiet place to regroup for a bit.  McBride was doing nice work throughout as someone already realizing that trying to remove herself from the game hadn't saved anyone, just as keeping everyone at arm's length hadn't protected her from caring about them, but hanging onto the idea for dear life until the very end anyway.  

Sure, the ending of her rejoining the living with Ezekiel to replant the garden may have been a little cheesy, but on a show that's been so damn dour all season, I'll take whatever little moments I can get.  Even with the terrible wig, Ezekiel continues to be pretty with the prettiest eyes, so there's also that.

[paigow]

23 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Negan's compound of unnecessary assholery and flesh burning

Almost better than "Den of Scum and Villainy" that describes Mos Eisley...

[smorbie]

12 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

If they can get 'Killing Machine' Rick, 'Focused' Michonne, 'Feels Nothing' Carol, 'Crazy' Morgan, and 'Angrily Greased' Daryl teamed up together, then this war's already won for CDB.

Why do you call them the CDB?  What does that stand for?  It's all over these forums, but I've never seen it on another.

[Primetimer]

Even if so, he might still be up for some power and glory.

View the full article

[ghoulina]

11 minutes ago, smorbie said:

Why do you call them the CDB?  What does that stand for?  It's all over these forums, but I've never seen it on another.

CDB = Camp Dinner Bell. Named for all the ridiculous ways they would stumble around, attracting walkers in the early seasons. Remember when Andrea told Rick he just rang their dinner bell? 

There's actually a sub-forum on here for all the acronyms and nicknames we use. 

[EllenC]

7 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

One thing I liked was that this ep was very aware of the butterfly effect. If Ben had spent the day with Carol, he'd have lived. In which case... who would have died instead? And would they have been an important enough character to start a war over, or would it have just been Archer Girl or Random Ginger Guy? If Carol and Morgan had split town early, they wouldn't have had to see anyone die that day. Would that mean Morgan could hold on to a bit more of his sanity? And/or would it mean that Carol would just go back to ASZ and read another book for two months? I like that the writers seem to actually be aware of these questions, instead of just hitting us with (sometimes quite literal) railroad plots.

   

Also, as someone pointed out in the Live Chat, did Daryl ever mention to anyone that Richard was hatching plots to kill Carol as Savior bait, etc.? (Not that anyone probably could have understood the mumbling, if he had -- so maybe he DID and I didn't catch it.) So many things happen because no one communicates what seems like important info. Sigh.

I'm sure the Garbage Pail Kids thus will be fabulous in a tense fighting situation. "I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by those 3 backward and seemingly unrelated words."  While on the other side, after waiting for a chance to get a word in edgewise, "Negan, for clarification, can you go back to the first thing you said, 20 minutes ago? Do we go east or west?" 

I really did like the Morgan and Richard interaction and comparisons, though. A newer character who actually made some sense/had some clear impact on the story.

[Ohwell]

I'm still fascinated that Morgan can have such a neat haircut.

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Even with the terrible wig, Ezekiel continues to be pretty with the prettiest eyes, so there's also that.

True dat.

[Giselle]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

I thought for sure it had to be a misdirect.  It was way too obvious from the first moment of the episode.  Surely the writing isn't that bad.  LOL  Right.

All of them, a la Murder on the Orient Express.  (Spoiler alert)  Or the slapping scene in Airplane.

I'd be up for pulling up a chair with a big bowl of popcorn for next week to see Morgan and Carol get their game on again, but we probably won't see them again until the finale.

A few minutes in I made boyfriend pause the show and told him what was gonna happen. Sure enough.

[Boofish]

I don't think she Saviors are slaves (not all of them at least) They seem like willing participants to me. Just as sadistic and sick as he is and they have a leader.  There might be a few decent ones in the bunch but the rebellion would consist of Negan's wives and all the Olivers in that warehouse begging for some more soup. Hardly seems worth the trouble

[taragel]

I don't think Negan's going to die in the finale. Isn't JDM signed on for another season? They haven't gotten their money's worth out of him yet, I'd bet. They said there wouldn't be a cliffhanger, so I don't think Negan's even coming close to dying in the finale.

[Ocean Chick]

Most of y'all have made my points already.  I'm just here to say how much I loved this episode.  Morgan and Carol are back!  Saviors better beware.  Can't wait to see a battle-ready Ezekiel.  And Jerry!  Jerry better survive the war, or Imma have words with the show runner for sure.  And LOVED Nabila!  I hope we get lots more of her.  So far all the new characters from the Kingdom have been great.

Just as an FYI, I think the boy who plays Henry, Ben's little brother, is actually the younger brother of Madison, who played Sophia.  If true, that would be cool.  Carol loses Sophia, but gains her little brother.  Heh.  They DID seem rather family-esque in that closing scene.

I don't want Morgan to go completely Clear-gone, but I hope he finds a middle ground while he's "gone, but not gone" in the creeptastic house.

[riverheightsnancy]

One of the things that sticks out for me, is that Morgan and therefore, Carol, does not really understand the horror of what Negan did. Just like Carol will not speak of what happened in the "grove". It is likely no one will want to give the gory details of what happened. Maybe Carl would talk about it, because he is younger and seemed more willing to fight back and have his arm lopped off for the benefit of others, (Rosita as well because of her extreme anger). Carol and Morgan don't really "know" what happened and how that has impacted everyone. 

[tveyeonyou]

Thank you for writing these, I love(d) this show so much until Negan offed Abraham and Glenn. It was a difficult decision to make, but I haven't watched one episode since and I won't watch again until Negan is gone. Maybe I'm just being spiteful but they made me resent the show with the overkill (no pun intended).
So I shall continue to keep up by reading your reviews and hopefully Negan will get gone so I can watch again.

[Boofish]

I don't want Negan to die ... I said what I said! :) I want the following Saviors to live:

Negan, the Kingdom's Logistics Specialist (can't remember his name) and Great Value Michonne (chick who shot Olivia). 

Honestly no one on this show is the moral authority. They have all done some "stuff and thangs" that were flat out wrong. Maybe not in the brutal unnecessary way Negan did but it's nothing to brag about or be proud of even if (and I agree) it was all for the greater good.  

[Ohwell]

Is Jerry the big dude with the cobbler?  If so, I think he's a hot teddy bear and I hope he survives.  Which means he probably won't.  

[festivus]

2 hours ago, diebartdie said:

12 hours ago, festivus said:

Poor Benjamin. He just had to engage with Carol and it cost him his life. I was yelling run child to his little brother at the end.

Actually, if she had allowed him to go with her, the worst that would have happened to him would have been learning how to plant tomato seeds. She did exactly what you seem to wish she would do with all youth, push away.

It was a joke. As I tend to do on these forums.

 

I'm fine with Carol going to the Kingdom and not Alexandria. The writers and the actress have always managed to convey to me that Carol never felt like she belonged in Alexandria. She knows that Rick and Michonne can handle the planning on that end and that this is no time to get sentimental. Whether she likes it or not, tactical planning and fighting are among her skill sets. I think she feels like the Kingdom needs her more right now and I doubt she wants to be too far from Morgan at this time. 

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Could have done without the shot, fade to black, to commercial.  Did AMC really learn nothing from the backlash over the season finale bat to the head cliffhanger?  I'm guessing not.  I'm sorry sweet Benjamin had to die but the red from his shirt was so blinding you could probably see it from space.  About the only square on his bingo card he didn't hit on his way out was being two days from retirement.

Bwa ha ha, this made me laugh so much, because you are so right.  I can almost hear Benjamin doing Danny Glover's tired monologues about how he wants to spend his days fishing with his grand kids.

[Nutjob]

Carol also wouldn't go to Alexandria because she knows they would try their hardest to convince her to stay... and she would be tempted. She has virtually no ties to The Kingdom, so it's much easier for her to visit periodically and go back to her house in the woods.

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, Vyk said:

As much as I like Morgan finally waking up, I yelled out a great, big "DAMN, MORGAN!" when he attacked and killed Richard.  I still don't fully get why he did that.  Starting up Richard's plan, yes, but . . . fury over Benjamin's death, too, maybe?  I don't know.  Could someone clear that up for me, please?

Morgan was furious over Richard's machinations causing Deadmeat's (excuse me, Benjamin's) death, and I'm 95% certain Morgan was ready to kill Richard when Morgan visited Richard in his room.  In that conversation, though, I believe Morgan let his pacifism sway him toward holding off when Richard said he would confess his own complicity and duplicity to Ezekiel.  

At the second one-cantaloupe food drop, however, Richard's offhand "We'll discuss it later" made it clear Richard had NOT confessed to Ezekiel, which  further incensed Morgan.  I think at that point Morgan decided two things: (a) Richard was probably right about his plan being their only option to give Deadmeat's - er, Benjamin's - death have meaning, and (b) damned if Morgan was going to let RICHARD reap the benefits of the boy's death.  Because the speech Morgan gave Gavin(?) was the same speech Richard intended to give.

 

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

And then there's cantaloupe-gate. Okay, so you mean to tell me that Negan has a standing order for twelve cantaloupes. TWELVE fucking cantaloupes. And he just can't live with 11. That 12th cantaloupe is crucial. All that fucking stuff he's accumulated at their compound and a dozen melons is of the utmost importance? What is that? ONE breakfast for his wives? Anyone believing even IF the 12th cantaloupe was there he'd be satisfied with an offering of that size?

I don't think Negan gives a flying intercourse about a single cantaloupe.

I don't think Negan gives a flying intercourse about a DOZEN cantaloupes, to be honest.

What I *do* think Negan cares about is regular and repeated submissions to his authority. And each melon delivery is a symbolic representation of such submission.

 

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Except he made the guy walk back, alone. Because apparently Rat-faced Boss has a conscience, of sorts. 

I don't think it has anything to do with conscience, and everything to do with the certain knowledge Negan will hold Rat Boss accountable for any screw-ups on his watch.  Negan truly loooovvvvves to stir the pot, but only when HE is the one doing the stirring.  Otherwise Negan wants nothing more than for his conquered territories to keep a steady flow of supplies coming back to the Sanctuary - and dust-ups like killing minions has high potential for disrupting that flow.  

Rat Boss is definitely firmly entrenched in the Saviors' middle management echelon, and - like ANY middle management ANYWHERE - his primary goal is to trumpet his management unit's positive achievements, and minimize its negatives.  Above all else Rat Boss wants everything to run smooth, and doesn't want anyone rocking the boat - and Rat Mullet's murder of a defenseless member of RB's supply line is a definite boat-rocker, and likely to draw undesirable attention from Negan.  Maybe not enough for a face-ironing - but if our next view of Rat Mullet features him sporting a cast on his shooting hand, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

I thought for sure it had to be a misdirect.  It was way too obvious from the first moment of the episode.  Surely the writing isn't that bad.  LOL  Right.

Swear to god - the MOMENT Benjy mentioned his Girl Back Home, I started mentally conjoining him to Hot Shot's Deadmeat.

[spiderpig]

You guys are all on point, and it's really hard to keep up with you. :-)  

I always used to say that Volume One of my autobiography would be titled "I Live to Grovel" (from Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum).  Now I'm changing it to "The Twelfth Canteloupe".

The shopping cart thing - when we first saw it, Mr. pig and I shouted in unison "Trader Joe's!".  We make our weekly pilgrimage on Saturdays, and yes, we're aware that TWD carts were blue instead of red, but you know...

They'd better not be measuring Jerry for a red shirt.

[paigow]

2 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

I always used to say that Volume One of my autobiography would be titled "I Live to Grovel" (from Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum).  Now I'm changing it to "The Twelfth Canteloupe".

 

Mel Brooks wrote "The Twelve Chairs", can he come out of retirement to write "The Twelve Melons"?

[spiderpig]

1 minute ago, paigow said:

Mel Brooks wrote "The Twelve Chairs", can he come out of retirement to write "The Twelve Melons"?

I'll fight him for copyright infringement.

On further reflection, isn't it interesting how difficult it is to get a really good tasty melon?  Most are sold when not fully ripe and taste like styrofoam.  Maybe the Saviors have a point.

[Dakisela]

10 hours ago, shanndee said:

Was it to just to make them late? I thought Richard placed it there in part for the others to find his pre-dug grave. He expected to die, and he wanted them to know where to put him.

And, the shopping carts were placed in a HUGE arrow pointing to the grave.  And, no one thought that was odd????

[smorbie]

  30 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

I always used to say that Volume One of my autobiography would be titled "I Live to Grovel" (from Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum).  Now I'm changing it to "The Twelfth Canteloupe".

 

Mel Brooks wrote "The Twelve Chairs", can he come out of retirement to write "The Twelve Melons"?

Mine's going to be "Life in the Wrong Lane".

[smorbie]

You guys are all on point, and it's really hard to keep up with you. :-)  

I always used to say that Volume One of my autobiography would be titled "I Live to Grovel" (from Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum).  Now I'm changing it to "The Twelfth Canteloupe".

The shopping cart thing - when we first saw it, Mr. pig and I shouted in unison "Trader Joe's!".  We make our weekly pilgrimage on Saturdays, and yes, we're aware that TWD carts were blue instead of red, but you know...

They'd better not be measuring Jerry for a red shirt.

Totally agree. JERRY! I love it when Ezekiel yells at him.

[smorbie]

Is Jerry the big dude with the cobbler?  If so, I think he's a hot teddy bear and I hope he survives.  Which means he probably won't.  

Yes, we love him. And we love when his sweetness irritates Ezekiel. "JERRY!"

[smorbie]

  2 hours ago, smorbie said:

Why do you call them the CDB?  What does that stand for?  It's all over these forums, but I've never seen it on another.

CDB = Camp Dinner Bell. Named for all the ridiculous ways they would stumble around, attracting walkers in the early seasons. Remember when Andrea told Rick he just rang their dinner bell? 

There's actually a sub-forum on here for all the acronyms and nicknames we use. 

THANK YOU! I was literally lying awake at night trying to figure it out. That's clever even if no longer quite accurate.

[smorbie]

Most of y'all have made my points already.  I'm just here to say how much I loved this episode.  Morgan and Carol are back!  Saviors better beware.  Can't wait to see a battle-ready Ezekiel.  And Jerry!  Jerry better survive the war, or Imma have words with the show runner for sure.  And LOVED Nabila!  I hope we get lots more of her.  So far all the new characters from the Kingdom have been great.

Just as an FYI, I think the boy who plays Henry, Ben's little brother, is actually the younger brother of Madison, who played Sophia.  If true, that would be cool.  Carol loses Sophia, but gains her little brother.  Heh.  They DID seem rather family-esque in that closing scene.

I don't want Morgan to go completely Clear-gone, but I hope he finds a middle ground while he's "gone, but not gone" in the creeptastic house.

I HATED Nabilia or Hijab or whatever her name was.

[smorbie]

I actually think it's pretty funny that almost no one seems to consider Eugene in the equation at all, which does a nice job of tying into why Negan's compound of unnecessary assholery and flesh burning might have appealed to him.

I did like this episode a lot because it moved the plot and got two of my favorite characters moving again.  But I acknowledge the bar has been set pretty low this season with a whole lot of stalling and side trips to Whocaresville while monologuers gotta monologue, or in the case of the garbage people monotone random articles of speech.  The fact that all of this happened over one damn cantaloupe, that the Saviors are willing to kill someone and expend that much gas and manpower over one damn cantaloupe,  doesn't say much for their business model.  I think we're supposed to think that they're just that big and bad and scary that they can make that one cantaloupe an object lesson that won't eventually exhaust their subjugated producers or provoke them into turning on them, when what it really says that Negan has too many people on his payroll with too little to do so they need to be kept busy harassing people over things like one cantaloupe so they won't focus on what a shitty deal they're getting too.  Gavin seemed like he was just completely over the whole thing and is going to go with whatever causes him the least amount of hassle.  I'm actually kind of interested to see where someone like him sides once the real war begins.

Could have done without the shot, fade to black, to commercial.  Did AMC really learn nothing from the backlash over the season finale bat to the head cliffhanger?  I'm guessing not.  I'm sorry sweet Benjamin had to die but the red from his shirt was so blinding you could probably see it from space.  About the only square on his bingo card he didn't hit on his way out was being two days from retirement.  

All the adjectives and superlatives have already been expounded on Lennie James as he was perfection throughout.  He does wounded and still so well.  He was definitely seeing some strong reflection of himself in Richard and seeing that his earlier inaction had led him to the place of desperation that got Benjamin killed.  

One of Morgan's less showy but quietly effective bits was his talk with Carol at the beginning.  Look, you wanted to be out.  I kept your whereabouts a secret and let you stay out.  But you need to figure out what you really want and not be pushing and pulling me in and out to be your interference for you until you do.  You let me know.  It bookended nicely with his scene at the end where he made it clear he just wasn't carrying that for her or anyone else anymore.  The chemistry between James and Melissa McBride is so interesting to me, from his calling her out on not really wanting to be alone as she's claimed after all to her understanding in the end that he was teetering after killing Richard and maybe needed her quiet place to regroup for a bit.  McBride was doing nice work throughout as someone already realizing that trying to remove herself from the game hadn't saved anyone, just as keeping everyone at arm's length hadn't protected her from caring about them, but hanging onto the idea for dear life until the very end anyway.  

Sure, the ending of her rejoining the living with Ezekiel to replant the garden may have been a little cheesy, but on a show that's been so damn dour all season, I'll take whatever little moments I can get.  Even with the terrible wig, Ezekiel continues to be pretty with the prettiest eyes, so there's also that.

He DOES have the prettiest eyes, doesn't he? And a great voice.

[walnutqueen]

Kirkman thinks cantaloupes approximate a female's breasts, and coconuts approximate brassieres.  He and his teeny peen need to be a little less obvious, and watch more than Gilligan's Island.

Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Carol is SO damned beautiful.  Right up there with Jane Goodall.

OK, so now I hear about boll weavils (it's been a while since I read Gone With the Wind).  Do they start out as teenie little green worms and end up as big fat yellow & black looking caterpillars that eat the best part of a marijuana bud?  'Cause I got those fuckers.  And they drive me to drink

[diebartdie]

24 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

 eat the best part of a marijuana bud?  'Cause I got those fuckers.  And they drive me to drink

Anything that does that (before I can) needs to die. Take your pick, I think some of them look like insect anteaters.

[mightysparrow]

I stand by my declaration that last night was the best episode in years.  But I have to agree with the poster who said that it's easy to go crazy over a mediocre episode when the bar has been set so very, VERY low.  In fact, the bar's been subterranean for years now.

I'm a fan of great acting and there's so little of that on this show.  Having to watch an amazing actress like Danai giggle and coo her way through last week's episode almost made me vomit.  This week was set up to be a 'Carol' episode and I almost skipped it because of how little I care for the character and how unimpressed I am by MMB.  I decided to tune in because of Morgan and I'm glad I did.  Lennie James gave a clinic in turning a stinky sow's ear into a gorgeous diamond encrusted silk purse. 

To be honest, there was a lot of really good acting in last night's episode.  It seems like the Kingdom actors have set up their own little community, and it shows in the performances.  There was some really good ensemble work last night, the likes of which hasn't been seen in ages.  The 'main' cast has been phoning it in for so long and acting ability doesn't seem to factor into the casting decisions of a lot of the latest additions.

Lennie James isn't just a good actor, he's a generous actor and he makes everyone who works with better.  Danai used to be able to do that, when she was allowed to act but being joined to Andrew Lincoln's hip would affect Daniel Day Lewis' performance.  My girl is doing the best she can.

A couple of people mentioned problems with sound.  I think the non-stop clanging of anvils whizzing by might be part of the problem.  Poor Heath-lite had the reddest of redshirts on last night.  And it seemed pretty clear that Richard was doomed too; he was just SO sure his plan was right.  I'm just surprised that Heath's kid brother didn't make it a trifecta.  I have to say that for such a big man, Jerry is pretty light on his feet.  He'd have to be to avoid getting buried under the anvils that were dropping all around him.

Like a lot of people, I find it hard to believe that all that sturm und drang was over some produce.  I don't even like cantaloupe.  But produce did bring us Nabila, so that's a blessing.  She was only on for a minute but I'm already a Nabila fan and I hope we get to see a lot more of her.  I also hope that we get to learn more about how a hijab-wearing Muslim woman makes her way through the ZA.  It would be very cool if she and Father G. had a talk about faith.  I announced myself the captain of the Nabila/Jerry ship last night and all are welcome on board.

[Giselle]

28 minutes ago, smorbie said:

He DOES have the prettiest eyes, doesn't he? And a great voice.

Eyes yes, voice...err.. I'll give that to Strand on FTWD but Ezekiel can turn a phrase very well.

[Eulipian 5k]

13 hours ago, SimoneS said:

So Morgan and Carol are only shaken out of their bullshit "no kill" stupor when it impacts someone they really care about.

Doesn't this describe any human being or citizen? It's not just the writers being lazy or pathetic. "Someone they care about" would move most people to act out of "character", most animals act that way .

[diebartdie]

It wasn't about "the cantaloupe", it was about Negan's need for total control. It was about Rat Boss's need to save face and keep control of his gang. It was about Richard's overwhelming guilt over the death of his daughter ages ago. It wasn't about that melon.

[DonitsYum]

14 hours ago, EllenC said:

Yeah -- wasn't Glenn's death supposed to drive Maggie's story forward? Isn't that what TPTB said at one point? "Drive" is apparently the wrong word.   Maybe next season.

It would be nice if Maggie gets to kill Negan, turn him into a walker and then feed Gregory to him.

[mightysparrow]

4 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Doesn't this describe any human being or citizen? It's not just the writers being lazy or pathetic. "Someone they care about" would move most people to act out of "character", most animals act that way .

Lennie said it best on Talking Dead.  He said that Morgan didn't say he'd 'never' take a life.  Morgan isn't anti-violence and he never sits down and expects other people to protect him.  Morgan has been in the thick of every fight.  But he knows that the 'kill or be killed' way of life is insanity; he's lived it.  He chooses not to take life unless there's no other option.

[Dodginblue]

5 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Doesn't this describe any human being or citizen? It's not just the writers being lazy or pathetic. "Someone they care about" would move most people to act out of "character", most animals act that way .

In  this show people get saved by others who don't know them at all fairly often.  Glenn saved Rick, maybe the most important stranger save of all.  And when Rick asked him why he did it Glenn said it was because if he was ever that far up shit creek he'd want someone to do it for him.  In the world of TWD if you only step up to help someone you care about you're going to have lots of free time.

Carol saved Noah when she didn't know or have a reason to care about him.  And Morgan saved Aaron and Daryl and didn't know them.  So for these two characters it's not unreasonable to expect them to be motivated by something other than personal friendship.

[walnutqueen]

14 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

Anything that does that (before I can) needs to die. Take your pick, I think some of them look like insect anteaters.

I am not known to be cruel to animals for the most part, but I'm ashamed to admit I sought those little suckers out with a flashlight and some tweezers, sometime after midnight, and relocated their nasty asses to other plants.  To no avail, I might add.  I still can't afford to buy pot that someone else was able to grow, GODDAMMIT!  :-)

 

9 minutes ago, Giselle said:

Eyes yes, voice...err.. I'll give that to Strand on FTWD but Ezekiel can turn a phrase very well.

I may be too old & shriveled, because I like them BOTH.  :-)

[DonitsYum]

14 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

But Morgan had literally lost his mind and he was terrified to go back to that.  Morgan feels such an obligation to his mentor and wanted to follow his teaching.  Lennie James just said on TD, 'we've learned how to survive, now how do we LIVE?' and I think that's what Morgan wants. 

100% agree.  That episode dedicated to Morgan and his mentor, when you view it as a stand-alone episode, was beautifully written.  I think the placement of that episode did it a great disservice (being immediately after the "Glen/dumpster" ep.)  That, coupled with Gimple's smugness about it on "Talking Dead', pissed me off. His character had a hard time recovering.

Wanting to "live" and not just survive is good.  I think that they all know that eventually, the Walkers will disintegrate into nothing and won't be as much as a threat.  The fight for what's left of the world is what's going on now. 

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I am not known to be cruel to animals for the most part, but I'm ashamed to admit I sought those little suckers out with a flashlight and some tweezers, sometime after midnight, and relocated their nasty asses to other plants.  To no avail, I might add.  

So are you the Morgan of Cannabis instead of Cheese? Who has to die before you pull the trigger on your bug problem???

[Boofish]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Swear to god - the MOMENT Benjy mentioned his Girl Back Home, I started mentally conjoining him to Hot Shot's Deadmeat.

The moment he picked up a stick from Morgan I started preparing the menu for the repast of Equate Heath Ledger

Edited March 13, 2017 by Boofish

[DonitsYum]

13 hours ago, lmsweb said:

OK I am on re-watch and just did a facepalm. When the kid gets shot, and the Saviours are getting ready to leave, Morgan very loudly says "we need to get him to Carol's, we loaded her up with all the medical supplies". Just me, or was that kind of dumb? Sloppy writing or something that is going to be used to move the plot along (since Morgan is now at Carol's and sharpening sticks with what I imagine to be an insane cackle in the background of his mind). I doubt the Saviours KNOW where the house is exactly, but it wouldn't take much to figure out that they're stockpiling medicine AWAY from the Kingdom.

This!   I'm actually shocked that nobody driving by has seen her outside gardening and been like "let's hit that place, it's just some lady"